Database Users

We Need

We need either more moderators or some people with more time on their hands. No offense to any current moderators of the Droid 2 section or anything, but this place is ridiculously cluttered and unorganized. People asking questions in development or the theme/app section should be posted in the general chat or within the same topic of the subject of their question. People in the development section posting multiple topics every time they update their ROM, the amount of topics and confusion could easily be cut down tremendously. If you go to any other phones development section on XDA, you see that everyone just updates their first post. Don't worry about your post count or people not noticing that you've updated, they will notice it.
Figured I should post this, because there are a ton of unneeded and misplaced posts.

For reference...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=731652

I know who the current moderator is, but he isn't taking care of our section. It needs to be cleaned, hence the nature of my topic.
I'm also not trying to attack him/her in anyway, as you can tell from the link you posted they oversee A LOT of sections, and that's a lot of work for one person.

kwheel596 said:
I know who the current moderator is, but he isn't taking care of our section. It needs to be cleaned, hence the nature of my topic.
I'm also not trying to attack him/her in anyway, as you can tell from the link you posted they oversee A LOT of sections, and that's a lot of work for one person.
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That wasn't meant just for you, not everyone knows how to find that info.
You should probably PM Captainkrtek to start with. That seems like the politic thing to do.

General rules we should all follow

Here are some rules from the Vibrant section we should all follow.
egzthunder1 said:
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.
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That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.

flashman2002 said:
That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.
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Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155

Sqdnguns said:
Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155
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Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.

flashman2002 said:
Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.
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Not at all, just glad someone else actually piped in on it.

5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
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interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.

bames said:
interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.
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I've always thought something similar to this. It seems like a frequent misperception among those with posts <10 that Q&A is for those that know nothing, and the development thread is where you go if you know anything about development (and then you can also post a question there)
I for sure thought this when I first came to XDA (luckily I read the stickies which made that clear). But changing the name could help.
Sent from my SGH-T959D using XDA App

Or another idea would not be to just completely lock the Dev thread to devs, but to perhaps have a minimum level of seniority/experience to post -- aka Senior members.
The reason that I say this is that there are a ton of folks that are not devs, but do post a lot of helpful troubleshooting information and/or feedback that not all the devs can answer personally. I would much rather the devs use their precious time on getting us the next version of goodness rather than answering a lot of questions.
If you do require some level of seniority (100+ posts for example) you can probably cut down on a lot of the typical questions that are repeatedly asked (and answered a few posts back) and have a much cleaner thread. It's not a perfect world, but offenders can be dealt with individually when you have a smaller pool.
Not to say that noobs shouldn't have a place to ask questions -- we were all there at one time, but we just make sure there is a different area for this -- not clogging the particular ROM thread.
I've seen several other forums and communities operate with this type of principle in high value areas. It also allows newer members to get their feet wet and contribute in other areas by posting for others if they want to post in the dev community (but lurking will always be allowed / should be encouraged).
Just my 2 cents.

I have Stuck this as I agree 100000000000%. As far as locking the the Dev section, that has been talked about and is not going to happen anytime in the near future. My suggestion is for everyone and yes that means YOU to treat everyone with respect and dignity. If someone goes off I am almost always on and read every pm so let me know as I cant be everywhere at once and I am still learning as well.

Wow great ideas, I couldn't agree more. +1

I like the idea of new post for new versions, I hope that would cut down on the flaming too due to missing a one line post on page 999 of 1200 that would answer the question.

I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?

agreed man

+1 to the new ROM new thread idea. That would cut way down on the Old Salty XDA member yelling at the noob interactions.
Oh and i believe it should be illegal to call the Captivate a "Cappy" FYL

Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support". Not only that, dev's could start up a sister thread for each ROM they do in the support board, that way the actual release thread isn't a mess.
Maybe I'm just dumb though.

I have to say I particularly like the flaming rules. Sure, noobs are going to ask questions that everyone else has known the answer to for the past 5 months. I know it can get tedious reading these same things all the time, but remember that we once were noobs too, and I would bet most of us have asked "dumb" questions when first starting out. People are excited to learn about this stuff...let's not take away the spark with ad hominem attacks. They serve no purpose whatsoever, and no one wants to read them. If you don't want to answer, keep your mouth shut. If you do, do so politely either directly or (probably a little better), point them to a thread that will answer their questions. But come on, users calling a noob an "idiot" or "dumbass" for asking an honest question really pisses me off. And like I said, remember that you probably did it at some point, too. Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now

geokhentix said:
Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support"
Maybe I'm just dumb though.
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I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too

bknust said:
I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too
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No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.

geokhentix said:
No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.
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Oops! Sorry, misunderstood. Yes, that would be a very good way to filter out a lot of the basic stuff. Good idea!

nbs11 said:
I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?
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As far as I'm concerned, an unlocker for Mac does indeed belong in development with the current structure of xda. It's kind of one of those things that could go under Apps, but when I think of apps, I think of your standard user apps, not rooting/unlocking/ROM/etc. tools/hacks. Maybe there should be a forum strictly for ROM dev and a separate one for general system dev. To me, they are different. That's just how I see it, but I'm sure there are quite a few differing views on this.

A suggestion regarding this forum and 'questions' [POLL]

I've read a few threads here lately where someone asks as question and thereafter gets berated by the members who consider themselves developers for posting a question here. I can totally see their side of the argument since this is a development forum and it makes sense to keep the threads like "Help with my app code" separate from "OMGWFTBBQ!! How do I unbrick my XOOM???". Those people often refer to THE RULES saying it's against them to post questions here and to post in the General section.
I actually don't see that in the rules.
But maybe it should be. I am 'guilty' of posting a question or two here, and I even read the rules first to make sure it was the right place to post. I didn't see anything telling me not to, so I posted here, simply because I feel that the General forum section is for basic questions. In that context, I can see why people do post questions here.
So, I'd like to propose a solution that I think would make everyone happy, and would help clean up this section.
A "XOOM Hacking Help and Advanced XOOM Topics" subforum.
This would be a forum where people could ask all the questions and topics that aren't directly related to the actual development and coding process, but are more advance than most of the topics in the General XOOM subforum.
Would anyone else find this useful?
Also, devs, if there was a forum like this, would you be willing to drop in to answer questions? I know everyone here who is not a developer values your knowledge and helpful insight, which is why people ask questions here in the first place.
Thoughts?

Ive felt a bit of negativity too here. One issue is we don't have a q and a section yet. We are so early in the development cycle for the Xoom. We are building kernels and we don't even have SD slot drivers yet! This is the time for folks to kick back, relax, and enjoy their new toy. I freaking love my xoom! I am so excited for the future of this device. All the fun will come in due time. Relax guys!

I agree. I'm enjoying my XOOM a ton, and I actually visit this section more than any other because I love to see what the great minds here are cooking up for the community. But, I can understand their frustration. They're trying to get their bearings on a new device, but are also getting bombarded with questions that bury topics that are actually related to development. I also agree that some of them go overboard and should take a chill pill. It's not good to have someone get turned off from this forum and its benefits because a dev snapped at them for invading their domain and asking for help.

I voted NO. When there are enough Devs to populate this section, then it will be useful, until then you are only fragmenting the people that make up the community. Until then I would think it best that questions To the devs as well as by devs would be at home here. Many devices never even make it past this point.
I wonder how many people that have developed or are actually developing someting for the Xoom right now, have been the ones to try to enforce said non existent rules.

Yes if your willing to manage moving threads around, because for sure thats whats gonna happen
Generally NO though, In other XDA Development sub forums there are plenty of "OMG I bricked my ..." and plenty of useful developer help... since said bricking, etc usually comes along with installing someone bleeding edge hack.
I understand the want for purity but it will take strict enforcement!

No.
Having a Q&A forum would be nice though to separate all the little questions, especially those that get asked over and over and over..

Wow. Split poll data. lol.
So, I guess the 'devs' should just be nice. Fair enough. Maybe the rules should be updated to reflect what exactly is allowed and/or welcome in this forum.

"Doesn't sound like development to me."

Questions regarding this forum....

Had an atrix for a few months now and have come to this forum almost daily to read and learn but have not posted until now. Below are just a couple general questions/opinions that I have based on how this forum conducts itself especially compared to other forums I frequent.
1. Why do people think they are owed something by devs and especially for it to be done on a timetable? To the best of my knowledge these people all have work/school/family’s/friends and work on this stuff on there own time and are not paid to do it.
note: to those who complain about making donations to devs and thinking this entitles you to the above learn the definition of DONATION, summarized as “gifts given to benefit a cause with nothing expected in return.”...otherwise it would be a purchase, investment, or wage.
2. Why can’t people read a thread before starting a thread or posting a reply, usually to ask a question that was already answered several times already in that thread or others?
3. In relation to question 2, why does this forum not have more moderators, especially in the Dev forum were people can’t seem to grasp what should be posted in there or what a appropriate reply is. Almost every thread worth readying takes 5x longer to read than it should to weed through the morons who seem to just want to voice there 2cents worth (and most isn’t worth that).
My theory is, if everyone just took a few minutes to search and read before posting then not only would they not fill the forum with junk they would also learn and potentially be able to contribute to the overall knowledge of the forum. I do want to thank those who already do this, I know I have learned an immense amount after coming here a complete android noob.

I agree with you for donations, however, I take exception on those who have spread themselves too thin, have opened up way too many projects and failed to deliver usable results on any of them. If you've got the donation pot out and you fail to deliver on all your promises, expect some reverb to come your way.
As for the rest of your post, you're definitely preaching to the choir

I'll be honest, I'm a little disappointed in the tone that gets set through this forum sometimes. Just like the devs have families/jobs/life outside of this forum so does everyone else. Now I 100% agree with using the search feature or even google to find information you need, I just think it doesn't always have to take a smart a$$ response when someone asks a question.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

I agree with you fully and that is why I truely believe my idea would clean up the forums immensely. (at least the important part - dev section)
Create ANOTHER sub-forum dedicated to announcements/discussions by actual developers. Make this forum public so all can read and keep up to date, but only those specifically allowed, such as recognized developers are allowed to reply. You could even split the existing dev section into two: Recognized Developer talk/User Developments.
This would:
1. Stop people asking for release dates, they are able to see exactly what is being done and when
2. Stop the release threads, such as PseudoROMs and Fastboot files for new SBFs getting clogged with "0MGz Tkx BRuu!"
3. Maybe make more developers post about their current status if they know they aren't going to cause another flame war or pointless thread due to arguing.
Just my two cents.
- DarkRyoushii

DarkRyoushii said:
I agree with you fully and that is why I truely believe my idea would clean up the forums immensely. (at least the important part - dev section)
Create ANOTHER sub-forum dedicated to announcements/discussions by actual developers. Make this forum public so all can read and keep up to date, but only those specifically allowed, such as recognized developers are allowed to reply. You could even split the existing dev section into two: Recognized Developer talk/User Developments.
This would:
1. Stop people asking for release dates, they are able to see exactly what is being done and when
2. Stop the release threads, such as PseudoROMs and Fastboot files for new SBFs getting clogged with "0MGz Tkx BRuu!"
3. Maybe make more developers post about their current status if they know they aren't going to cause another flame war or pointless thread due to arguing.
Just my two cents.
- DarkRyoushii
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we tried this on the samdroid forum and it worked ...keep a dev section for releases and a discussion section for the releases.
so every mod/rom had a thread in the dev section (restricted to dev's only for posting) and a thread in the discussion section for questions and thanks etc.

QA Bot - opinions?

Am I alone in thinking that every ROM/kernel/mod getting their own Q & A thread is messy, fragmented, confusing and generally Not A Good Thing?
They're here to stay unfortunately, mods choice, but sheesh.... Even more room for dumb questions that have been answered many gazillion times before.
My $0.02.

+666
Sent from my N9005

So, what, you want all 5,867,631 members posting every question they have about every ROM single in one massive topic? Or would you prefer that everyone makes a new thread for every question? Which will inevitably lead to thousands of people asking the exact same question over and over and over again, making a new thread for every single one.
Good luck sorting out that nightmare.
Information is much more specific, sorted and organised this way. You need specific information in a thread, that's what the 'Search this thread' bar on the top right side is for.

ShadowLea said:
So, what, you want all 5,867,631 members posting every question they have about every ROM single in one massive topic? Or would you prefer that everyone makes a new thread for every question? Which will inevitably lead to thousands of people asking the exact same question over and over and over again, making a new thread for every single one.
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In my experience, the latter is exactly what's going to happen anyway. Always has been that way, always will.
Your point of view is cogent, logical and eminently sensible. And that's why this new system won't work - because those who can't /won't use search, read more than one post, start with "I've tried searching but it didn't help" etc continue down their diametrically opposed routes...
I also have read one dev stating that he wants no part of an extra Q & A forum and won't be replying to any questions there.
So who gains?

A further thought - from what I can see, the Q&A Bot seems to be triggered by questions in the ROM/kernel fora/threads, judging by the redirects to the new Q&A threads.
But some of the former threads are 20+ pages long. I cannot see how further fragmentation will possibly lead to less clutter. Duplicate questions answered in different sub-fora, and extra threads for people not to search in will be the result. Hope I'm wrong. But I'm not, wait and see
Here's a prime example....

In all honesty i dont care how they want to structure the forum.
I do personally think it should be the other way Around. i.e. The MAIN Release of the ROM is on the Q&A and people have to earn the correct Rep to post in the Dev Section.
Why...
Well most people on this forum dont know how to use a search function, So what better way, Post your question in one section
Then post it again in another section, Double the chances / speed of being answered.
If a user cannot google a question or search the forum, How do the expect to filter the stupidity down by opening a new thread for people to post stupid questions.
Each Thread Q&A has all the normal stuff it does right now.
The Thread links off to the Dev section, where you will need X Reputation in order to post stuff in the development section.
I think this would reduce the stupid question and leave the developers forum free for actual debug, issues and fix's being posted.
Regardless of what suggestions are made, They will never be taken on board. Mods aint what they used to be Maybe i have been here too long.
No disrespect of course