Hi guys,
I'm going to leave out the whole story leading up to this (you are welcome to read my past thread about it if you are curious) but basicly, I have a brick of a Nexus 7 that has no external defects at all (babied the hell out of the thing..), but has the 'unlocked' symbol at the google splashscreen, meaning my warrenty is void. Via the past thread, we have determined (and a friend who'se much more android-dev-inclined confirmed) that the flash memory is defective, as it is not not committing changes (no relock possible.) Therefore, my only option now is to open the thing up and see if I can rig it in such a way that the screen does not turn on (at the least), such that I can call in with that as my issue, instead of a brick with an unlocked bootloader as my problem (already did that.) What wires/ circuitry could I tamper with subtly to achieve this purpose?
I know this is a very devious thing to do, but frankly, due to the unlocked status, I have a brick of a tablet that was supposed to help me with reading textbooks in university, and having done everything right (except for unlocking it apparently,) I'm left out cold (and as a student I'm not exactly rich).
Thank you for any help with this.
hi all
i wanna buy a new phone and im searching all over the xda for benefits and bad thing of these new devices released(not the m8 because i dont like htc )
well i have read some little things here and there about knox technology
but i haven't read any where about this part
will i lose knox benefits after rooting my device (using chanfire root) ? (i think the answer is yes but i wanna get sure about this)
well warranty is not important for me because im not going to buy the device with warranty because all these warranties in my country are software warranties(i don't know what you guys tell this in English) that all they do is to flash the rom again with odin and they wont do anything else so i can warranty my device myself
and i have a little question
is there any other benefits other than this 2?
a. Even though your device is lost, the person who stole it cannot use it. Without your account, the device cannot be reset to factory settings and flashed with any ROM.
b. KNOX protects your private data and information with its advanced technology.
I'm pretty sure the root trips the counter while giving you root access. You'd lose warranty and none of the system files would be affected. As for your 2 other questions: I think android device manager (which is not galaxy s5 specific) allows you to lock down your phone remotely if it's stolen (look it up on play store, pretty sure that's what it does). KNOX is pretty much aimed at the business sector and has very little use for an average user imo. If you want to secure your device just encrypt the phone.
cl_l said:
I'm pretty sure the root trips the counter while giving you root access. You'd lose warranty and none of the system files would be affected. As for your 2 other questions: I think android device manager (which is not galaxy s5 specific) allows you to lock down your phone remotely if it's stolen (look it up on play store, pretty sure that's what it does). KNOX is pretty much aimed at the business sector and has very little use for an average user imo. If you want to secure your device just encrypt the phone.
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It voids Knox warranty, not the device's warranty (if you live in Europe).
What is the disadvantage of this? Can i still use all the function of note3? Only problem is that warranty is void right?
Correct. It is used for better encryption for say business users, etc... however if you ask me - you would probably use something else and not talk about sensitive data, etc over the phone.
Everything else will work just as it should - do not worry about it.
cyberboob said:
Correct. It is used for better encryption for say business users, etc... however if you ask me - you would probably use something else and not talk about sensitive data, etc over the phone.
Everything else will work just as it should - do not worry about it.
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Knox is Samsung's attempt to get into the business market. Knox is a secure 'container' into which company IT guys can install the company apps and data. Should the phone get lost or stolen they can nuke it from the server.
Why Samsung would piss off all their normal users when the company could as easily do the same thing just like you and I can (from website or using something like Avast) is anyone's guess. Also note that it doesn't necessarily void your warranty - that's a Samsung con game. It voids your KNOX warranty - in other words they will not be liable if your company loses apps/data on a Knox-broken phone.
But many Samsung service agents will void your phone warranty, knowing most people will not go legal over the issue.
ikong7 said:
What is the disadvantage of this? Can i still use all the function of note3? Only problem is that warranty is void right?
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KNOX is twofold.
- First is the KNOX E-Fuse modifying security. This is the digital version of the old 'If seal is broken, warranty is void' labels. If tripped, it displays 0x1.
If you trip it, the level of warranty you still get depends on where you are.
If you're in the EU, it makes no difference. 2 years factory warranty is mandatory, regardless of software modifications. Note that if your modifications cause damage (i.e. By overclocking), it isn't covered by the warranty. It only applies to regular defects.
If you're outside the EU, it depends on your local laws.
- Second is the KNOX security container. This is a secure environment inside the OS where a user can keep its secure files and apps. It's basically a separate virtual partition (for lack of a better definition) of the OS that you need a password to access.
Tripping the E-Fuse causes the container ro selfdestruct, rendering it inaccessible. Any files that were inside the KNOX container when the fuse was tripped will be permanently lost.
For users who don't require the secure container, KNOX is nerely another entry in the long history of failed DRM's that cause more harm for paying users than it does for those that would bypass it. Companies never learn.
Sent From My Samsung Galaxy Note 3 N9005 Using Tapatalk
Hey Friends,
My S7 E had a problem with the charging port and I sent it in for an exchange device today.
Previsouly I had Nougat installed so the device was KNOX Void and Rooted.
I read that If you want to ensure that noone can restore the Data from the Device (Online Banking records, passwords, images) you have to encrypt the device and then do a factory reset.
Unfortunately encryption did not work on Nougat (it would show the encryption icon and then reboot)
SO I basically flashed the Stock Firmware of the Provider (4 Parts) with Odin and hoped that I can find the encryption option in the Security Settings Menu but it wasn't there. I could only encrypt the SD card.
My question: Was the device encrypted as soon as flashed the stock firmware or was encryption simply unavailible on the stock rom?
I did multiple factory resets and also Installed an app to "delete empty space" which should overwrite any data that might hide in the free space.
I am worried that whoever gets the device next might be able to restore my banking data, images and e-mails.
What's your take on this?
Best,
Thomas .N from Germany
Any ideas ?
Please help
Judging by the things you did, your personal data should be safe. I can't prove it, I can't tell more but I can tell you the technicians aren't hesitant to peek into your files. All I can say is this. Anyway.
Your files can still be restored but at this point that would cost more energy and time than it is probably worth it.
nitrous² said:
Judging by the things you did, your personal data should be safe. I can't prove it, I can't tell more but I can tell you the technicians aren't hesitant to peek into your files. All I can say is this. Anyway.
Your files can still be restored but at this point that would cost more energy and time than it is probably worth it.
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Thanks for the post. I am just worried about my online banking information that was stored on the phone.
Now that I have the new phone i reverse engineered the process.
I put Nougat on the phone, loaded some information, documents, pictures etc on the phone and restored it to the carriers Stock rom.
Then I rooted the phone and tried some file restoration tools to see if I can find any data. Turns out blank. Can't even find one file with diskdigger or others.
I guess that restoring the phone to stock rom encrypted it by default again which should mean that I am safe.
Don't worry, they won't attempt to recover any files. Your porn is safe.
CuBz90 said:
Don't worry, they won't attempt to recover any files. Your porn is safe.
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No, that part they can have. I am worried that whoever gets the phone next might try to recover my personal data but maybe this is far fetched.
I stand corrected on my last post, I was able to recover some data so apparently encrypting the device and wiping is not as safe as some might think.
exxi said:
Thanks for the post. I am just worried about my online banking information that was stored on the phone.
Now that I have the new phone i reverse engineered the process.
I put Nougat on the phone, loaded some information, documents, pictures etc on the phone and restored it to the carriers Stock rom.
Then I rooted the phone and tried some file restoration tools to see if I can find any data. Turns out blank. Can't even find one file with diskdigger or others.
I guess that restoring the phone to stock rom encrypted it by default again which should mean that I am safe.
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You know what I'm more interested in? You are from Germany, right? How did you get a repair under warranty with triggered KNOX? I'm also from Germany and from past experience Samsung's repair partners (W-Support, DAT Repair usw.) are the biggest douchebags imaginable. They never did care why I sent in a device. As soon as thy saw KNOX being triggered, they simply denied any repair under warranty even if completely unrelated to KNOX or software issues.
exxi said:
No, that part they can have. I am worried that whoever gets the phone next might try to recover my personal data but maybe this is far fetched.
I stand corrected on my last post, I was able to recover some data so apparently encrypting the device and wiping is not as safe as some might think.
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Yes, but unless you're someone very very very important and the guys at the repair shop know that, none of them will even care to go that far to recover data from your device.
nitrous² said:
You know what I'm more interested in? You are from Germany, right? How did you get a repair under warranty with triggered KNOX? I'm also from Germany and from past experience Samsung's repair partners (W-Support, DAT Repair usw.) are the biggest douchebags imaginable. They never did care why I sent in a device. As soon as thy saw KNOX being triggered, they simply denied any repair under warranty even if completely unrelated to KNOX or software issues.
Yes, but unless you're someone very very very important and the guys at the repair shop know that, none of them will even care to go that far to recover data from your device.
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To answer you question in regards to warranty: It depends on your carrier as well as the nature of your subscription. In my case it's a company subscription which allows for quick swap at a location of your chosing. Basically they come to your company with a refurb and hand it over to you in exchange for your old (broken) device. At this point no questions are asked. I don't know what is going to happen as soon as they check the device at the service center. I've done similar swaps with KNOX tripped devices in the past with different carries. My feeling is that corporate customers get more "leniency" when it comes to device repairs.. go figure.
Hello,
I'm hoping some community members with extreme level of understanding of Samsung Knox Security can help clarify a warranty denial - perhaps for thousands (class action)...
First, and most notably, a device with a 'custom binary status does NOT unilaterally mean a device was Rooted, correct? Therefore, if Samsung were to systemically deny ALL devices' warrant entitlement - simply on grounds of 'custom' status, by officially pronouncing ANY device with 'custom status, as unequivocally (quote) "ROOTED" - that may be incorrectly oversimplified, in their favor.
Is it possible that a device with a hardware defect causing massive overheating, causing thermal shutdown, mid OFFICIAL LEGIT UPDATE, ect (or whatever reason) an Operating System corruption could, in fact, cause device to show as 'custom' - without ANY 'ROOT' at all, correct? (Especially when Samsung Knox Security shows 100% UNCOMPROMISED/TRIPPED, )
In fact, there are multiple scenarios in which a device may show 'custom status, without ever having been maliciously modified via security circumvention process of 'Rooting?
Please advise and discuss. I have found out that Samsung automatically, systematically, may have denied thousands of VALID warranty claims - which could result in a class action.
I don't know all the ins and outs of Knox Security, but I can add some experience pertaining to Custom Status. It is very possible to trip the Custom Status flag without tripping the Knox flag or being rooted. There are multiple package disablers available that can disable system packages, which can throw the Custom Status flag. The disablers are designed for NON-ROOTED devices, and if I recall correctly they are granted permission by Knox. Before root access was gained for the S7, a few people thought they accidentally figured out a way to root the S7 based on the phone showing Custom Status. Try using a package disabler on a NON-ROOTED S7 and disable a single package called sysscope, then suddenly your phone will say Custom Status. A lot of people got their hopes up that root had been found, only to have their hopes shattered when I proved it wrong.
As for hardware defects causing massive overheat and thermal shutdown, I have a Motorola Droid X that would overheat and shutdown if I was charging it in the car when it was hot outside. I'd even consider battery issues to be hardware related failures, such as the Note 7. There was enough media coverage as well as a total recall to prove it's possible. I'd also like to add that the Note 7 isn't the only phone to cause fires. There have been some iPhones and other Samsungs that have caught fire, but it was a much smaller scale compared to the Note 7.
I will get in to this topic more with you when I am not at work, but bottom line they are going to claim that you procured the hardware understanding it was manufactured for the purpose of completing task x. As soon as you run any customized software they will claim you are exceeding it's capability therefor creating an unstable environment where it would be impossible for them to support it, especially with all the 'custom' code that could be used.
With that being said, would you mind if I asked what you were trying to accomplish because it may still be possible.
What I'm trying to accomplish as far as the hardware or attempting to distinguish that there is a very distinct difference between a totally defect-driven (overheating interrupted official update, I imagine) Operating System Corruption causing integrity checks to fail, defaulting it's status to 'custom' vs Samsung automatically labelling Quote "ROOTED"?
Bottom line is, I'm trying to ascertain the exact specifics as to just how many ways and specific causes a device is triggered to be 'custom'....
As I've dealt with the Samsung Executive Office, after 13 calls, final being from State's Attorney General, Consumer Protection Division - Problem is that samsung does not bother to do any type of diagnostic to determine just how a 'custom' status is triggered. To be clear, they do not differentiate ANY difference between 'custom' and 'Rooted'.. EVEN when Samsung Knox has NOT been tripped/flagged for deliberate modification and/or security circumvention for gaining root access to run unsigned code (or whatever)...
If there is ANY way a device can be 'custom' from a simple operating System corruption (even worse, when directly attributed to being a symptom of a hardware defect - overheating, ect) and Samsung has systemically and unilaterally denied thousands of MFR Warranty claims on inaccurate assumption that all 'custom' status devices are in fact QUOTE: "ROOTED" - then there could be a very compelling argument for a class action.
What I do know is my despite NEVER having rooted, rather extreme overheating has caused thermal override to trigger up to 20 reboots an hour.... I and a Verizon Tech Level 2 or 3 (?) spent an entire day back and forth trying to pinpoint why/how my device become 'custom'. We postulate that a simple Operating System Corruption caused hash checks to fail and, by default, trigger an innocent 'custom' status.... This hypothesis seems to stand up (seems to is where you experts come in) [correct us if we're wrong] when considering that the Verizon Variant has a locked bootloader - which means any modifications would require "Rooting", which would be detected by Samsung Knox and flagged as such, and cannot be reversed. My (and, perhaps many other) device's software/operating system integrity was EASILY repaired and returned to 'OFFICIAL', with Samsung Knox UNFLAGGED, by simply using the Verizon Software Repair Tool. The tool simply reflashed the official firmware which was corrupted when update was interrupted by overheating.
I believe, in addition to my scenario, there is evidence that other users may have obtained a 'custom' status from something which is not QUOTE: "ROOTING", for example. a package disabler? That isn't anything that was used on my device, but merely another precedence, possibly, of there being more than one clear cut 'custom'="ROOTED" as far as Samsung treats ALL MFR warranty claims where HOW/WHY 'custom' status may completely matter - and if there is some question, their refusing to even inspect or investigate the specific reason a device is 'custom' maybe screwing thousands of legit mfr warranty claims > hence class action.
At first, I merely wanted my premium $800 device repaired/replaced... My device has exhibited dangerous behavior, after constant overheating may have warped component leads, shorted soldier traces, melted components, made lithium ion chemicals unstable. My device, upon charging with OEM supplied charger and cable, will completely become unresponsive to ANY user input (not even home/power/volume) - it continues to heat to such temps it cannot be handled without a glove or towel for very long - there's only one of three scenarios A) Chemicals become unstable causing a volatile chemical reaction (fire/explosion) B) Chemicals and/or components reach catastrophic state and simply fail permanently C) Battery dissipates 100%. I made sure to present my device in this state to a Verizon dealership so it was documented and an agent could affirm via an affidavit, should something awful happen. I was lucky that a regional Samsung Field Rep also overheard and was obligated to attempt to intervene as not doing so would have been negligent on his part - he's the one who tried for me but was told that any device that was 'custom' had to have been rooted... He hinted that he had knowledge that this was a bogus practice that Samsung policy dictates without any consideration for whether or not the 'custom' status was deliberate, nefarious, or even violated MFR Warranty terms....
@rbgCODE ^^^^^^^ Above^^^^^^^^
CVertigo1 said:
I don't know all the ins and outs of Knox Security, but I can add some experience pertaining to Custom Status. It is very possible to trip the Custom Status flag without tripping the Knox flag or being rooted. There are multiple package disablers available that can disable system packages, which can throw the Custom Status flag. The disablers are designed for NON-ROOTED devices, and if I recall correctly they are granted permission by Knox. Before root access was gained for the S7, a few people thought they accidentally figured out a way to root the S7 based on the phone showing Custom Status. Try using a package disabler on a NON-ROOTED S7 and disable a single package called sysscope, then suddenly your phone will say Custom Status. A lot of people got their hopes up that root had been found, only to have their hopes shattered when I proved it wrong.
As for hardware defects causing massive overheat and thermal shutdown, I have a Motorola Droid X that would overheat and shutdown if I was charging it in the car when it was hot outside. I'd even consider battery issues to be hardware related failures, such as the Note 7. There was enough media coverage as well as a total recall to prove it's possible. I'd also like to add that the Note 7 isn't the only phone to cause fires. There have been some iPhones and other Samsungs that have caught fire, but it was a much smaller scale compared to the Note 7.
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Thanks for input... Exactly as we had thought - but would still appreciate any/all expert testimony LoL (actually, legal council has already suggested I begin search for expert witnesses... I'm sure they'll do their due dillegence as well but helps to do stuff yourself, too).
It's dumbfounding to me that I spent $800 cash up front on a device - was told quite literally by a regional Samsung Field rep to not so much as power on - words like 'potential bomb' and 'fire/property damage' used by the rep... He'd JUST returned from a debriefing on the Note 7 investigation findings. So, not only do I have an $800 bomb I was instructed to not even power on, but I continue to pay Verizon $120/mo for service.
Verizon already did a full investigation and examined very carefully - they found zero evidence of any modifications/unauthorized code which would violate MFR warranty claim, were able to repair corrupted software environment via Verizon Software Repair Tool. At least Verizon cares that I don't have a chemical explosion in my ear while I'm driving. Unfortunately, even after Verizon's repairing the Operating System and device has long since returned to "official' status, with Knox untripped and uncompromised, extreme prolonged temps have cause permanent compromise to hardware... This was the chicken before the egg bit, it began overheating before 'custom' status began and continues after back to 'official' - Samsung caring about me, class action? Not so much. Awfully smug in my humble opinion.
Appreciate any/all input - either for or against. I can handle the truth, Samsung cannot.
BTW, We'll know if a Samsung Legal Spy Troll is among us :cyclops:
I'd see if @Chainfire would give any input on the topic or point you in the right direction. I don't think there is anyone else out there that has more experience with Knox, Custom Status, and modifications. I don't know his background, but his Android knowledge is phenomenal, and from some of his posts it sounds like he has a very in depth knowledge of hardware as well.
I'd also like to add that from your post, I realize your device hasn't been modified via root or package disabler, but maybe the system is seeing something else as a modification. Chainfire might be able to mention what the system sees as modifications. I do recall when the S7 first came out, you had the ability to use Nova Launcher to change the scaling before it was implemented in the system settings. This was a non-root method that wasn't exactly a modification, but it would trip the DM-Verity flag for modifications, so you never know what the system might determine is a mod and throw the Custom Status flag.
CVertigo1 said:
I'd see if @Chainfire would give any input on the topic or point you in the right direction. I don't think there is anyone else out there that has more experience with Knox, Custom Status, and modifications. I don't know his background, but his Android knowledge is phenomenal, and from some of his posts it sounds like he has a very in depth knowledge of hardware as well.
I'd also like to add that from your post, I realize your device hasn't been modified via root or package disabler, but maybe the system is seeing something else as a modification. Chainfire might be able to mention what the system sees as modifications. I do recall when the S7 first came out, you had the ability to use Nova Launcher to change the scaling before it was implemented in the system settings. This was a non-root method that wasn't exactly a modification, but it would trip the DM-Verity flag for modifications, so you never know what the system might determine is a mod and throw the Custom Status flag.
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I thank you, very much! This is the exact type of input/leads council is seeking.
Hopefully @Chainfire is willing to assist on whatever level... I know some people hear 'litigation' and want nothing to do with, others understand that sometimes huge corporations will screw consumers until checked - and are more than willing to help do that very important checking for the greater good. Yet others, whom possess background/credentials needed for expert witness testimony/affidavit, understand that should their assistance lead to probable cause of/justification to file litigation - very likely could be financial compensation (expert witnesses are in high demand - this is the community to find you, too ) Now, in all fairness, I cannot, at all, suggest that assisting will result in compensation - but, it could. The very least, you have power to share wisdom and hopefully hold parties accountable.
I'm still on fence about litigation... Honestly, I really just want what's fair - but the deeper Samsung gouges my time and money, it has become, to me (still semi-ignorant about specificities regarding Knox, 'custom', rooted.
I do wholeheartedly believe that the letter and spirit of consumer law (MFR Warranty) are very much in question of having been short changed, by Samsung, perhaps on THOUSANDS OF SIMILAR VALID WARRANTY CLAIMS. Denying an in warranty device claim, without even accepting for inspection or, at the very least, using in place, commonly used for tech support, remote diagnosis via Samsung+ App - is an absolute failure of due diligence.
I hope someone on this forum is willing to help. There are some very brilliant minds that lurk around here.
@CVertigo1
I'd also like to add that from your post, I realize your device hasn't been modified via root or package disabler, but maybe the system is seeing something else as a modification..... I do recall when the S7 first came out, you had the ability to use Nova Launcher to change the scaling before it was implemented in the system settings. This was a non-root method that wasn't exactly a modification, but it would trip the DM-Verity flag for modifications, so you never know what the system might determine is a mod and throw the Custom Status flag.........
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This is the exact type of KNOWN issue, which sets a precedent of 'custom' status, which may well NOT violate the letter and spirit of consumer rights, as far as warranties... Thus dictate the necessity for Samsung to investigate exact reason for 'custom status' warranty claim - but they do not differentiate 'custom' status from "ROOT" AT ALL!
Now, still yet, if Nova launcher is flagging as custom status as which something that legitimately voids a mfr warranty (which is shifty and arguable, at best) - does Samsung and/or Android/Google Play store have protection and/or warnings in place to, at least, make user aware!? I carefully went through all previously installed apps and none disclosed ANY modifications - let alone, as Samsung has determined quote "ROOTED"!!! NO, not rooted.
On a single case, maybe seems blowing out of water - BUT, if talking about a high performance premium Galaxy device, which is known for overheating and failures, and thousands of users being denied rights to mfr warranty - entirely something else.
Also, a big deal is a federal courts ruling that Samsungs arbitration/class action opt-out notice is not binding. Failure to respond is not acceptance of warranty and terms of use stipulations, with opt-out gotcha's - which attempt to take away consumer's rights to join class action claims.
I had a verizon s7edge which I sent back for an insurance claim. The replacement from Assurion was also defective - the wifi did not work. Could not even get it to turn on let alone work. It would crash and randomly reboot. When it did reboot - it would sometimes display the unlocked logo and custom when booting. It would even say custom in the settings/about phone.
The phone was doing this right out of the box - was never rooted or flashed. I ended up sending that one back for a second replacement which has been flawless.
So, yes you can have an issue with your phone that is not flash/rooted related and it will still show "custom" when booting.