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Silly question, but thought it would be good to ask nevertheless,
Does Adaptive Fast Charging Reduce the Lifespan of your Device?
How is the impact on the overall number of charge cycles for the removable battery?
it reduces the lifespan of your battery not your device. charging at anything exceeding 1C damages the battery. thats 1.5 hours for a full charge.
then again the battery is 30 bucks.
Let the battery drop to 2%, then let it recharge!
Over time, we all know that most batteries lose a lot of their useful juice.
>> I'd suggest making the battery life-life last longer, by letting the battery drop to 2%, then, recharging it fully! This is to avoid battery swelling in the phone, which may cause an internal damage to your phone's components :good:
Happy browsing!
VERSVCE said:
Over time, we all know that most batteries lose a lot of their useful juice.
>> I'd suggest making the battery life-life last longer, by letting the battery drop to 2%, then, recharging it fully! This is to avoid battery swelling in the phone, which may cause an internal damage to your phone's components :good:
Happy browsing!
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Isn't that too low? Won't doing that actually reduce battery life in the long run? I've read that it's good to let it drop to 20% before re-charging it.
Analogy time!
jpbl1976 said:
Isn't that too low? Won't doing that actually reduce battery life in the long run? I've read that it's good to let it drop to 20% before re-charging it.
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Let's imagine you were a phone that was used the whole day, and your batteries are down to 2% Let's say that 2% is your subconscious, to run all that extra information that's through your brain, telling you "Hey, you got extra (at 20%) a whole lot of space for new power juice!"
I know it's sounds like a very childish analogy, but I guess this is the best way I could've explained it :fingers-crossed:
Best information source on batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/
The batteries degrade as a function of discharge cycles (where 10 discharges to 90% are roughly the same as one discharege to 0%), time, temperature and charge.
Batteries age slowest when they are at 40%. That's why your out of the box battery is usually 40%, to prolong shelf life.
Batteries age faster the higher the temperature is - adaptive charging increases the temperature while charging more than normal charging, but not by much nor for a long time.
So no need to worry about anything. Charging from 2% is not better than charging from 20%.
Note, their article http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries does not take into account the adaptive charging technology, so the last graph is not really applicable in this case.
I don't like quoting batteryuniversity.. but this is pretty good analysis.. Depth of Dicharge is directly related to the overall longevity of the lithium batteries.. more you discharge.. the less cycles you're going to get..
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
but.. considering that these batteries are $30 bucks.. use them how you like.. just replace it when you start to "FEEL" that battery isn't holding the charge anymore.
The only thing that Samsung said about the Adaptive Fast Charging adapter is that you can charge 50% of the whole charge in only 30 minutes. They didn't say what tecnology they used or any warning of it. If you buy a phone, and it cames with the original charger which is aproved by the FCC and who knows what other organizations tested it, it means that you will not have any problem with the battery by using the original charger that comes with your device. Anyway, a normal smartphone battery only lasts it's original capacity for almost 2 years, after that, consider to replace it.
http://chargedevs.com/newswire/new-...age-lithium-ion-batteries-as-much-as-thought/
zurkx said:
it reduces the lifespan of your battery not your device. charging at anything exceeding 1C damages the battery. thats 1.5 hours for a full charge.
then again the battery is 30 bucks.
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so how much "C" this adaptive charger Note 4 ?
As far as I know modern phones know how much juice is in the battery, and shut off well before the battery is empty to ensure no damage is done if you drain it completely.
With all my new phones I always run them till the turn off then fully charge them back while off up to 4 or 5 times, and in the past this has always improved the life of the battery.
I do not believe this improved the battery life of modern phones though, it's just a habit.
On the flip side, it's never damaged a phone or battery of mine.
As for charging currents and speed, i've always used used charger 1.5amp and above and never had a problem.
Hello guys. I have a question about battery lifespan. How battery will perform in 2 years with normal usage?
> How battery will perform in 2 years with normal usage?
not as good as today (like every battery)
My only question is...
is the fast charging more harmful for the battery,
Should I expect a faster performance degradation over time because of the fast charge ?
I'm not sure there's enough experience with the fast charging to answer that question for sure, but....
Fast charging generates more heat. More heat means faster degradation for lithium batteries. That's well documented. I personally would only resort to fast charging when I really need it, rather than making it the normal charging method.
If I keep this phone longer than 6 months I would br surprised. Battery should be alright though. I still see old phones running just fine.
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app
Using always connected to Charger?
For long term battery health I wouldn't recommend keeping it plugged in for long periods of time. People say today's batteries have protective circuits that prevent overcharging, but I don't really trust this. So I simply unplug it as soon as it is fully charged.
As for actual better battery life, turn off everything you don't need - GPS, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Mobile Data etc. This phone should give you an average of 6 hours SOT. To obtain more you will probably need a custom kernel, but even then the results may vary.
Yeah it has protection circuit to protect overcharging. Lithium based batteries can always take charge, and might self-combust. (ok , worst case. basically, lithium can't get in contact with water. RH in air is just enough to start the self combustion reaction). Nowadays, Li-ion or Li-Po are well made, and this is less problematic.
This as been said, it doesn't mean that this circuit won't trigger the battery every 0.XXX% drop, which is not good, so yeah, until someone do electric reading test on the op5, I won't suggest to let the device plugged in when full.
Simple rules for lithuim based batteries :
- time will kill the battery, even if it's brand new sealed. (normal chemical reaction). Nothing we can do here, limit extreme temperatures, not too cold not too hot.
- heat will decrease battery life and capacity. This mean, dash charging will decrease life. So, 1.2A to 2.0 [email protected] charger is more appropriate. Even if dash tech will regulate the charge, you still have a time that it will optimize to max power, so more heat.
- Polarity direction changes will decrease life/capacity. This mean, do not charge it if you don't need to.
- do not wait to drain it at 0%, I don't know what is the security factor from OnePLus. A single lithium based batterie under 2.60-2.75V, will mostlikely be dead , or will loose more than 50% of his capacity.
Some lithium based battery will perform better, but to keep low price, do not worry, oneplus use standard li-po.
More developed info here :
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
When the phone is plugged, it doesn't use the battery anymore, therefore the battery is not drained. Once it reaches 100%, it just stays at 100% until you unplug it.
Some says that leaving the charger plugged is not ecological, because it still uses energy even if it doesn't charge anything, but in reality it hardly use energy. I don't remember the numbers, but it is really insignificant.
In the end, there are a lot of superstitions concerning charging and battery life, most coming from old habits and false/outdated information spreading through the internet. The only things very true is that you should avoid letting your battery going to 0%, and don't let your battery overheat, and that's all. Charge when you please, as long as you please, and avoid using low-cost chargers or batteries as some can be dangerous.
I used my Xiaomi Mi3 for 3 years, letting it plugged every night with a QuickCharge charger, and it could still handle a whole day when I finally sold it.
not talking really about sot here, but about the battery health over months/years
I can read some posts where people report a very bad sot, when the Z play is normally a very good device regarding battery, There are several possible causes of course, the rom, the apps used... and battery degradation over months.
According to a studie, a lithium ion battery loose 10% every 250 charge cycles, there is some rules to help to not loose more :
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life.
- avoid charge over 90%
- avoid use below 20/15%
- Battery lithium ion hate heat, so when charging avoid use your phone, can add heat from cpu mostly with games, and you will charge/heat longer
- the turbo charger make the phone heat like hell, and again lithium ion batteries can't stand the heat, it's a fact, Somes will say it's normal because it is sold like that. I won't take the risk if not needed, so i use only the turbo charger when urgency, otherwise i use my lenovo tablet charger (5,2v / 2A), that charge quite fast too with no heat at all.
I wish there was an option to turn off fast charging like on Samsung phones...
I don't know if we got different phones, but I always charge phone with stock turbocharger and its never hot - when I'm not using it during charging is not even warmer than normally, when I use phone during charging it's little warm.
Baronik said:
I don't know if we got different phones, but I always charge phone with stock turbocharger and its never hot - when I'm not using it during charging is not even warmer than normally, when I use phone during charging it's little warm.
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really ?? mines heat a lot too with turbocharger and without using it during charge
Mine too, but i put it on the stone cold floor and it's much better. You should do this.
fablebreton said:
not talking really about sot here, but about the battery health over months/years
I can read some posts where people report a very bad sot, when the Z play is normally a very good device regarding battery, There are several possible causes of course, the rom, the apps used... and battery degradation over months.
According to a studie, a lithium ion battery loose 10% every 250 charge cycles, there is some rules to help to not loose more :
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life.
- avoid charge over 90%
- avoid use below 20/15%
- Battery lithium ion hate heat, so when charging avoid use your phone, can add heat from cpu mostly with games, and you will charge/heat longer
- the turbo charger make the phone heat like hell, and again lithium ion batteries can't stand the heat, it's a fact, Somes will say it's normal because it is sold like that. I won't take the risk if not needed, so i use only the turbo charger when urgency, otherwise i use my lenovo tablet charger (5,2v / 2A), that charge quite fast too with no heat at all.
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I suggest following[1] battery charge limit app ... It works fine ( root required )
[1]
https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002/
or just use a regular 1A/2A charger at home and only use turbocharger on the go
I've also done research into this, as this is the first phone I want to keep more than a year and a half. My conclusions from multiple sources are as follows (quite similar to your findings):
- Don't charge over 90%, but really you shouldn't charge past 80-85% (choose your percent based on how much you will need for the day)
- As you said, don't go below 20%, but really you shouldn't go lower than 40%.
From what I can tell, the 80-40 rule seems to be a legitimate and fairly reliable rule of thumb for smartphone batteries (don't go below 40%, don't charge past 80%).
Battery University has a lot of good info, and they state that smaller discharges and recharges are generally better for the battery. I've been able to get a full day or two of usage from my Z Play by starting with 90% and not going lower than 35-40%.