Related
Since a new thread seams to pop up every day asking for ETA's I suppose we can have a thread specifically discussing what we ACTUALLY know. Here is what "I" know at the moment.
GPS Fix
Currently there is a leaked firmware (see development forum) that looks like it improves the GPS functionality nicely. This has a build date of Sept 7th so it is fairly new. Due to certain issues, this appears to be a beta still. However, it does have the TMO apps on it so it is further along than a pre-carrier build. Given a beta cycle of a couple of weeks, if this goes out as an OTA, it would look to be at the end of the month at best.
It has been reported in another thread that TMO will start rolling out a GPS/Lag fix on Sept 20th. This is most likely based on, or is, the leaked ROM that you can find in the dev section. So far, reports on the GPS fix are "mostly" positive.
Froyo (Android 2.2.)
There have been no leaked ROMs for the Vibrant yet although there is for international versions. Samsung_mobile on twitter said Froyo at the end of September. Given the information in the previous section, it seems an interim build may be coming to TMO first, before a Froyo is pushed out. This one though is a complete unknown besides from that twitter post.
It is currently expected that Samsung will release a Froyo build TO CARRIERS on Sept 23rd. We are not likely to see a Froyo update for at least 45 days after that if not longer depending on how long it takes TMO to "wiz it up"
GPS is working very nicely for me on that new rom with no issues.
I was locking onto 6 birds yesterday. All stock. WHATUP NOW
Still take some froyo though haaa
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
While I appreciate that the leaked ROM may be working for you, a lot of people dont want to mess with ROMs and are more interested in an official update. Although you can install that ROM today, we have no actual date of an official release.
KerryG said:
While I appreciate that the leaked ROM may be working for you, a lot of people dont want to mess with ROMs and are more interested in an official update. Although you can install that ROM today, we have no actual date of an official release.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, if we are lucky, we may get it by the time Google releases Android 3.0 in October....
I am sooo disappointed that every Android manufacturer locks down their product so tight, that without their cooperation, the phones are simply not upgradable to the new OS versions. In a way it's worse than dealing with the iPhone
Wake up dude. It has nothing to do with that and EVERYTHING to do with testing and finishing drivers, UI, etc. People complain about a buggy release then demand updates right away. Its not going to happen.
couped said:
Wake up dude. It has nothing to do with that and EVERYTHING to do with testing and finishing drivers, UI, etc. People complain about a buggy release then demand updates right away. Its not going to happen.
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Click to collapse
Nope.
Samsung can test the OS in advance, so they can get their drivers ready for launch. Both HTC and Moto did it, and Moto is hardly the most responsive company out there.
And the UI, it's crap, IMO. But if Samsung thinks TouchWiz is so great and important, then spin it off and make it available in Market, when ready.
There is really no good excuse for the delay. Samsung is just not dedicating the resources they need to.
MacGuy2006 said:
Nope.
Samsung can test the OS in advance, so they can get their drivers ready for launch. Both HTC and Moto did it, and Moto is hardly the most responsive company out there.
And the UI, it's crap, IMO. But if Samsung thinks TouchWiz is so great and important, then spin it off and make it available in Market, when ready.
There is really no good excuse for the delay. Samsung is just not dedicating the resources they need to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are you serious?
I think you need a new hobby...
There is really no good excuse for the delay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously someone that hasn't been in the software development field.
Amen.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
In T-mobile/Samsung's defense...
When the first update for the G1 came out, it released in the UK before it hit the U.S.
Turns out that there was some kind of security bug in it, and they actually had to stop offering the update.
The testing aspect is why these updates take so long. It takes longer to test (and fix minor issues) than to correct the main problem.
What it boils down to is that no one really knows these devices in and out. You have cameras from one company, radios from another company, GPS chipsets from a third company, processors from a 4th, etc... and on top of it all your OS is written by a company that is very new to the electronics business.
The problem is the pace of technology.... sure you could pay 2 or 3 geniuses $100,000 a year for 2 years to learn every idiosyncrasy of ONE of your devices... but does that make sense when you have 2 or 3 new models going to market in 6 months?
Apple is probably the best suited company to have a team of experts who know their ONE device in and out... and even they screw it up (proximity sensor, antenna debacle).
KerryG said:
Obviously someone that hasn't been in the software development field.
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Click to collapse
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
Maybe old news by now, but Androidspin is reporting Froyo for the international version with a Sept 23 release date.
noob user, can't post links. visit android spin for the story.
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
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Click to collapse
Ill agree with this, if Samsungs priority was 2.2 it would have been done by now, easily. I mean 2.2 has been out since may. Its 4 months later, they could roll it out now if it had been properly and timely worked on.
It's not like all Samsung makes are phones.
....
I'm still waiting for the HTC TV, HTC Washer and Dryer, maybe a Nokia Refrigerator....
When the other Companies start making all of this stuff, then u can compare
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Again, if this was a priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 now. They have control over more hardware in the Galaxy than most other phone manufacturers.
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Click to collapse
So... your the accountant? Or someone who contracts with vendors to do development for the company you work for? Supply the funding?
Sorry, not a ringing endorsement for understanding the development cycle without more details.
I'm guessing you meant to say, "if this was a TOP priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 for now".
I'm guessing it's not, for a variety of business reasons. I'm sure it is in the mix with a lot of other efforts.
mjpacheco said:
So... your the accountant? Or someone who contracts with vendors to do development for the company you work for? Supply the funding?
Sorry, not a ringing endorsement for understanding the development cycle without more details.
I'm guessing you meant to say, "if this was a TOP priority for Samsung, we would have 2.2 for now".
I'm guessing it's not, for a variety of business reasons. I'm sure it is in the mix with a lot of other efforts.
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Click to collapse
Well, I do a bit of most of the above.
So, you are a fanboy?
If HTC and Moto could do it, so could have Samsung. Especially since the Galaxy S is supposed to be their weapon with which to take over the smart phone market.... And since they have more control over key components than their rivals.
Anyway, what's your point? That writing drivers is so tough it takes years?
Or that we should not expect much from Samsung products, because they are a diversified company and can't focus on any particular product?
MacGuy2006 said:
Actually, part of what I do is pay people to do software development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I pay 400 people to do software development, and I agree with the other guy.
MacGuy2006 said:
No, I run a company.
So, you are a fanboy?
If HTC and Moto could do it, so could have Samsung. Especially since the Galaxy S is supposed to be their weapon with which to take over the smart phone market.... And since they have more control over key components than their rivals.
Anyway, what's your point? That writing drivers takes years?
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Ha, no. I'm OS and hardware agnostic across all platforms.
My point is realistic expectations. If the GPS update was top priority for Samsung and/or easy to fix (it very well may not have been), it would be done.
As the owner of a company, you know more than anybody the tradeoff's that need to be made when making business decisions. It easy to complain when you are individually impacted about the priority of some specific piece of work, but for Samsung you know they made concious decisions about release scheduling.
Given recent news, it looks like the GPS/hardware fix is being release seperately from 2.2. I'm a little dissapointed in this, it's seems likely that means we will not get the 2.2 fix before the end of September. Ideally they would be rolled together if 2.2 was close... unless the fix just took so long the release timeframes have been squeezed together. And all assuming the GPS fix is merged with 2.2.
Anyway, I'm rambling, no way to know unless we sit in on Samsung development meetings and what challenges they have had with the 2.2 release.
My 'guess' is Samsung had marketing dates to meet with the original OS and released the product before everything was baked in. There are lots of oddities and bugs in the phone I have not seen in other platforms (like HTC), and these are hopefully fixed and may explain the extra time.
I agree with you re: the UI. For those that care, and it likely the more technically savy are the ones that care, it's easy to change... one of the compelling things about any android device.
The Tab is nearly ready to launch. I'm sure it has been tested with 2.2 for a number of weeks, if not months. The have the drivers ready. They are likely devoting tine and energy to hardware releases at this time. It would be nice if they would release vanilla android then the other stuff in the market. They already do that for the samsung home and car apps.
It is really frustrating that these companies cripple good devices with bloatware and make you root to uninstall it. Gingerbread will be nice because all of these extras will be apps. Which is how it should have been from day one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Samsung has a great tablet but it is rapidly falling behind others in the updates.
And the BS about only rolling in certain markets to alienate customers.
Who does that?
Who in their right mind thinks that is a great idea?
So everywhere else your paying customers don't get the update they deserve.
Also we still don't have touchwiz, but Samsung is rolling out updates to certain people wtf? Some got Touchwiz, some got Google Movies, mine shows jack / nada / zilch.
Honestly, I don't know what Samsung's logic is for all this but it just sucks.
Stop whining.
mmoran27 said:
Samsung has a great tablet but it is rapidly falling behind others in the updates.
And the BS about only rolling in certain markets to alienate customers.
Who does that?
Who in their right mind thinks that is a great idea?
So everywhere else your paying customers don't get the update they deserve.
Also we still don't have touchwiz, but Samsung is rolling out updates to certain people wtf? Some got Touchwiz, some got Google Movies, mine shows jack / nada / zilch.
Honestly, I don't know what Samsung's logic is for all this but it just sucks.
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Click to collapse
I only see Xoom and TF having HC 3.2 so far. Everybody else is still on 3.1.
It just came out...geez cry me a river...return and get a bulky tab with crappy screen....u sound like those guys on vibrant forum...go pout somewhere else! And most of us are running touchwiz...spend less time complaining about the best tab out and learn to flash.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
take it back and go get yourself an Ipad then
You sir need an I pad..
And you still got a GT 10.1 because...?
i do totally agree with you about Samsung really, really sucking it in the update department. The problem with Samsung is they build really awesome and powerful devices but they just don't build the software to match up with them. That is why we have XDA. Dude you can run touchwhiz and you can update. Just give it some time and you will see some better things on here that Samsung can't even come close to touching. This is a brand new tab and only a few weeks old. Give everyone a chance to pick one up and then this forum is going to blow up.
OP Samsung is a hardware company, google is the one who developed android. Because android does not belongs to Samsung thats why samsung cant do anything about updates and stuff. You can see Apple's updates moves fast because they are both hardware and software manufacturer so they can do fast updates they have one device to fix it. Google has so many devices to take care of and so many regions to consider. So it will take more time than usual. As you can see on samsung website that they uploaded the new drivers for pc and mac which was fast update because that update was in their hand. Samsung has nothing to blame about update if you want to blame then blame google.
Once ics comes out and the source is released there won't be a problem.
you are right about google
But the hardware vendors are responsible for the updates.
So it is Samsung.
Google has no idea how they are going to enforce update policy and there is no guarantee Samsung will even upgrade the 10.1.
i don't understand way people complain about updates. If it is that important root and flash.
A little game I play with fellow android users is ask them what version are they running most don't know or even know how to look.
stillblood said:
A little game I play with fellow android users is ask them what version are they running most don't know or even know how to look.
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Click to collapse
I bet most of them would be able to tell you what features are buggy on their device though
stillblood said:
i don't understand way people complain about updates. If it is that important root and flash.
A little game I play with fellow android users is ask them what version are they running most don't know or even know how to look.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What don't you understand? That I am a tech savy individual but want to have the most up-to-date software on my device in a timely time-frame? Or that I DO NOT want to Root or Flash my Tablet? Be serious. Your telling him to basically get a iPad because they offer updates across the board. That's not a good thing for Android.
DO NOT WANT TO ROOT OR FLASH !!?
WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON XDA THEN ?!! LOLZ
you guys are funny to post these complains here, if you want something official ?
go on Samsung's website/facebook or just send them a bunch of hate mail.
jeeez
tabing said:
OP Samsung is a hardware company, google is the one who developed android. Because android does not belongs to Samsung thats why samsung cant do anything about updates and stuff. You can see Apple's updates moves fast because they are both hardware and software manufacturer so they can do fast updates they have one device to fix it. Google has so many devices to take care of and so many regions to consider. So it will take more time than usual. As you can see on samsung website that they uploaded the new drivers for pc and mac which was fast update because that update was in their hand. Samsung has nothing to blame about update if you want to blame then blame google.
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Click to collapse
Actually 8. 2 iPhone's, 2 iPod Touches, 4 iPad's. #justsayin
Android is to college as the iPad is to high school. It's more work but the rewards are greater.
There are plenty of people happy with the iPad. Personally, I'm not going to settle for a device that my grandmother can use.
I'll never understand why people are so hell bent on having the latest upgrade of the OS on the devices they use. It's an over the top emotional quest for some.
The Galaxy Tab is a tool, a means to the end. It's not the end itself.
These are the same people that get a new car every two years because their car looks dated. It's a status thing that makes no sense.
If you can run the apps you need on the Galaxy Tab then it matters not what version Android is installed.
TabGuy said:
I'll never understand why people are so hell bent on having the latest upgrade of the OS on the devices they use. It's an over the top emotional quest for some.
The Galaxy Tab is a tool, a means to the end. It's not the end itself.
These are the same people that get a new car every two years because their car looks dated. It's a status thing that makes no sense.
If you can run the apps you need on the Galaxy Tab then it matters not what version Android is installed.
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Click to collapse
I'm sure that's the case for some and I agree with some of what you say, but I can say for me, however, that it is the allure of the promise of improved functionality. Anything that makes my device harder, better, faster, stronger is all right by me. Of course, roms can do that too, but some prefer "official" whether the reason is snobbery, stock OCD, timidness, what have you.
Phil_Glisson said:
I'm sure that's the case for some and I agree with some of what you say, but I can say for me, however, that it is the allure of the promise of improved functionality. Anything that makes my device harder, better, faster, stronger is all right by me. Of course, roms can do that too, but some prefer "official" whether the reason is snobbery, stock OCD, timidness, what have you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I look outside my office and see 10 cubicles, all with PCs running Windows XP. It's stable and runs like a work horse. And, you know what? They get their job done every day and go home at the end of the week with a paycheck. Never once have they asked for Windows 7.
I simply can't imagine what the next version of Android, or Touchwiz, will do for the average user to make it worth venting about on a public forum simply because they didn't get it NOW.
So I've been thinking. Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I think the wait for the update won't be nearly as long as years past.... The reasoning behind my theory is the fact that Samsung didn't fragment the devices this time around. We always seen the Exynos (international versions) get the update within a month of release. And then snap dragons always took 4-5 months probably because of the out of house support and the carriers slowing down the process.. I'm thinking a month or two tops. Thoughts?
on verizon so I will be lucky to even get an update before I move on to a new phone
AT&T. I'm hoping around next decade. I'm being a little too optimistic, but one can hope.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Considering what Lollipop did to my Note 4 I won't be updating reguardless. Everything works just fine as it is.
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xtrandrix said:
Considering what Lollipop did to my Note 4 I won't be updating reguardless. Everything works just fine as it is.
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Click to collapse
Lollipop was one of the largest updates in Android history with a crap ton of new code and ui. Marshmallow while adding some new api's and features is primarily a bug fix and performance update.
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Whatever it is, this is one of the major drawbacks of Android as a platform.
I'm not sure we can just point the finger at one company in particular.
It's just the way Android is, with Google, OEM's, carriers.
They need to simplify this update process. It's a huge advantage iOS has over Android.
Somehow, someway Google, Samsung and others need to expedite the update process so customers can update just as quickly as their iPhone counterparts.
HNIC215 said:
Whatever it is, this is one of the major drawbacks of Android as a platform.
I'm not sure we can just point the finger at one company in particular.
It's just the way Android is, with Google, OEM's, carriers.
They need to simplify this update process. It's a huge advantage iOS has over Android.
Somehow, someway Google, Samsung and others need to expedite the update process so customers can update just as quickly as their iPhone counterparts.
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As much as I'd like to see it, Google would be killing the USP of their Nexus line.
kinghu said:
As much as I'd like to see it, Google would be killing the USP of their Nexus line.
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Click to collapse
I disagree with this as their Nexus line would still have unlock able bootloaders, stock pure android not skinned and highly mod-able. So there would still very the same market for the Nexus line.
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Google should start giving the OEMs the beta builds a few months before they announce them. So that they can do their testing and have it sorta coincide with the nexus release even if they follow a few weeks later. But the months are ridiculous
I feel like they need to cut the carriers out of this process. Apple doesn't include them, so why should Google/Samsung/Any other OEM?
One of the things people will say is without the carriers android phones won't sell but I disagree.
These carriers don't want Apple to have all the power, Apple already made a major play against carriers by releasing their own Apple Upgrade Program. Which will definitely be very popular and reduce people using carrier financing plans.
So while I think at first the carriers might play hardball to get their wishes, in the end, Google and Android OEM's will come out victorious.
Even if this happened, there is still an extra step in the process with Android because Google would first have to update their OS and then pass it on to each OEM so that they can update their own respective interface and UI elements (TouchWiz, HTC Sense, etc...)
That's still better than the current system: Google -> OEM -> Carrier -> Consumers
With these changes, it would make it: Google -> OEM -> Consumers
Which is still one more step than Apple's process: Apple -> Consumers
Google could help that by pushing it to the OEM's more quickly or including them early on in the update process.
Something!
I switch phones often between iOS, Android, (even Windows Phone - Although this has stopped due to lack of hardware to play with).
Each platform has their pros and cons but getting updates quickly is one of the best things I love about iOS.
If this was fixed, I think it would level the playing field by a huge margin. Most other gripes would be software related and could be fixed easily through updates or hardware related which wouldn't be that big of an issue due to all the variety among Android OEM's.
Why does Apple get all that power? No one else? Not Windows Phone or Android? It's not fair and both Microsoft and Google need to step it up!
---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------
nique0201 said:
Google should start giving the OEMs the beta builds a few months before they announce them. So that they can do their testing and have it sorta coincide with the nexus release even if they follow a few weeks later. But the months are ridiculous
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Exactly! You typed this as I was typing my long rant, lol.
Carriers are what ruin timely Android device updates. What excuse does AT&T have still having 5.0.1 for their S6? Seriously, I want to actually have a conversation with an AT&T software engineer and ask why their heads are up their asses?
The fact that the Galaxy S6, one of AT&T's flagship devices is still on 5.0.1 makes me wonder if we will see 6.0 on the Note 5 any time in the next couple of years.
fchowd0696 said:
Carriers are what ruin timely Android device updates. What excuse does AT&T have still having 5.0.1 for their S6? Seriously, I want to actually have a conversation with an AT&T software engineer and ask why their heads are up their asses?
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Our happiness/satisfaction is not a priority for them.
They just want our money... Smh
HNIC215 said:
Our happiness/satisfaction is not a priority for them.
They just want our money... Smh
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Click to collapse
If by "our happiness," you mean geeks like us who read tech sites, then you'd be absolutely correct. No company is ever going to care what we think because we're an abysmally small segment of the market. Of all the people who buy Android phones in the world, very few actually care about that version number that shows up in Settings | About Phone.
Further, we also tend to be among the cheapest people around. Whenever people start complaining about a phone being overpriced, those comments come from tech geeks more often than not.
Money talks and BS walks. If you want OEMs and carriers to take software updates more seriously, get non-techies to care. Good luck with that.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 5 using Tapatalk
fchowd0696 said:
AT&T. I'm hoping around next decade. I'm being a little too optimistic, but one can hope.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol this killed me, this is my case and it's so true.
Earlier they said that Sammy are bout to give a major update to S6/edge/edge+ and Note 5! Maybe(I say now) it's marshmallow!
Tapatalked with my iPhone 6 plus
oldblue910 said:
If by "our happiness," you mean geeks like us who read tech sites, then you'd be absolutely correct. No company is ever going to care what we think because we're an abysmally small segment of the market. Of all the people who buy Android phones in the world, very few actually care about that version number that shows up in Settings | About Phone.
Further, we also tend to be among the cheapest people around. Whenever people start complaining about a phone being overpriced, those comments come from tech geeks more often than not.
Money talks and BS walks. If you want OEMs and carriers to take software updates more seriously, get non-techies to care. Good luck with that.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree and disagree with some of the points you made...
I agree that our passion for technology and gadgets puts us in a niche category in comparison to the rest of Samsung/Apple/Any OEM's customer base as a whole.
When I said "our happiness" I meant consumers in general. I think everyone, whether they know or not, if shown facts and asked would say they want continued support for a product they spent money for. Whether it was $200 or $950.
There's really no indicator to say how many people understand software versions etc... Most I would assume and generally agree, like you said, don't know and don't care. I have been fortunate enough to travel, live and work abroad for many years in different parts of the world. One thing I noticed, is people all over the world are similar in some ways and different in others. Especially in regards to technology. However, it's a hard statistic to prove or show.
Not knowing something doesn't factor in my comment though.
Ignoring ignorance in it's simplest form, my point was if you know all the facts. Then you see how Apple is able to update their phones directly to their consumers without any carrier influence ,interference or delay. Then Google/Microsoft and other should be able to do the same.
I think when you hear compliments about Apple, it's not only physical about the hardware/software (which Android and OEM's compete pretty evenly now).
It's mainly about their customer service. That goes a long way with brand perception. That's why they have it and others don't. Their continued support for older models and current models is stellar!
You also say we (as in techies) "... tend to be the cheapest people around". I don't think so, I know, myself personally, I go through several premium phones a year. Money has never factored into it. I just want the best of the best. I know many techies who feel like me. I think T-Mobile created Jump-On-Demand for people like us. I would think the opposite would be true and a non-techie would care more about price rather than quality or specs.
Lastly, you say "If you want OEMs and carriers to take software updates more seriously, get non-techies to care. Good luck with that."
I think if OEM's want to compete with Apple they have to get non-techies to care about them. Not the opposite. I have no brand loyalty, I will use anything from any OEM, so long as their product and service is superior.
Just my two cents...
I hope android M is so good
Gửi từ SM-N920C của tôi bằng cách sử dụng Tapatalk
I have a feeling marshmallow might come sooner than previously (notice I didn't say soon) the fact that Google officially support finger print might mean that marshmallow note 5 maybe better and more accurate
md1008 said:
I have a feeling marshmallow might come sooner than previously (notice I didn't say soon) the fact that Google officially support finger print might mean that marshmallow note 5 maybe better and more accurate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope so! That and a few adjustments here and there.
Really would make a great phone even better!
dsmpampis said:
Earlier they said that Sammy are bout to give a major update to S6/edge/edge+ and Note 5! Maybe(I say now) it's marshmallow!
Tapatalked with my iPhone 6 plus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source?
One of the strong points of the Nexus and Pixel line is that you can get frequent updates (https://developers.google.com/android/images). How will the updates look like from Essential? One time upgrade, and then abandon us? Or frequent ASOP updates with fixes?
Whatever they may say about it, we won't really know until the updates come or not. It's being said it's either very close to stock or stock so getting upgrades out should be easy enough in a practical sense.
I'm pretty sure Rubin said in his hour long interview witih Walt Mossberg that it would get regular month security updates, if not better.
The bigger concern is how long will they support the phone for? Just two or three years like Google (making the phone insecure and obsolete after that)? Or five years like Apple? Even more importantly, what if they just don't succeed. If the company folds after a year or two, there will certainly be no updates after that. That's a chance one takes with a new company.
The community will carry it for a while if they move enough of them. As to Rubin, the proof is in the pudding. We've been sold the regular updates thing before and never actually got them or had them stop short. Time will tell.
I don't see updates being a problem. It seems to pretty much be stock Android with a few added features for the cameras and their modules to be released.
Right, but the question is how long they will lag. Lots of manufacturers make claims about updates.
Have they made any statements?
I played with one yesterday and it is almost completely stock 7.1.1 except for the camera software and the little bits in the code that control the modules. I see Andy making sure this gets updated to Oreo by the time the new pixels drop. that is 2 months out. dont quote me though
This is what I wanted to know, since its basically stock. Will it get Oreo (Android 8.0) fairly soon?
SS2006 said:
This is what I wanted to know, since its basically stock. Will it get Oreo (Android 8.0) fairly soon?
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Considering how Android Oreo is built I say there is a good chance of quickish updates. 8.0 keeps the make Android code separate from any customizations now. They leave the hooks open do to your own thing besides their code. I think this is why Andy went super stock with 7.1.1 to make it easier later on and they can do more customization leader with their software because it will be easier after Oreo.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
MKBHD and I were talking to one of their software engineers (who use to work for Google as well) at the event on Monday and he told us they were already working on Oreo. In MKBHD's unboxing and first impressions video he mentioned a few of the things that were talked about in that discussion like it being easier to quickly update because it's so close to stock etc.. Although, once they release their home device with Ambient OS I bet we see more customizations on the phone firmware to accommodate that
One thing I question, why 7.1.1 vs 7.1.2? .2 offered a few neat last bit of features before 8.0 so its interesting why almost all OEM's have stuck with 1.1 before possibly jumping to 8.0.
IM0001 said:
One thing I question, why 7.1.1 vs 7.1.2? .2 offered a few neat last bit of features before 8.0 so its interesting why almost all OEM's have stuck with 1.1 before possibly jumping to 8.0.
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Unless I'm reading it wrong it looks like the 7.1.2 update was targeted for Nexus and Pixel devices. Most of the fixes fix issues specific to those devices so why would an OEM port an update that doesn't affect their device.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
superchilpil said:
Unless I'm reading it wrong it looks like the 7.1.2 update was targeted for Nexus and Pixel devices. Most of the fixes fix issues specific to those devices so why would an OEM port an update that doesn't affect their device.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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This may be true, but it did also bring thins like the long touch shortcut feature as well as the fingerprint sensor swipe feature that may work on other hardware that had the same sensor hardware.
It's not a big deal, and though we have 8.0 now, I might want to wait a bit for Google to release a update to that as well hearing what I am from early adopters that have 8.0 now on their Pixel's. New features and battery life improvements plagued with persistent notifications, worse BT, and other odds and bits that seem like rushed bugs.
Exactly what I would expect from Version X.0 for a major OS change so not surprising at all.
cb474 said:
I'm pretty sure Rubin said in his hour long interview witih Walt Mossberg that it would get regular month security updates, if not better.
The bigger concern is how long will they support the phone for? Just two or three years like Google (making the phone insecure and obsolete after that)? Or five years like Apple? Even more importantly, what if they just don't succeed. If the company folds after a year or two, there will certainly be no updates after that. That's a chance one takes with a new company.
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A very valid concern. Especially since these sorts of people and companies throw a bunch of money at stuff and if it doesnt look like it is going to get the giant return on the investment they hope within a year or so then they do shut it down and move on to their next big thing.
My other concern with this is if we will get full kernel source or not as well. I would assume yes, since Andy helped make the deal about Andsroid being so open and sources available, but you never know with phone OEMs. Even though this is basically stock ROM, I bet the kernel source will be needed so we can interface the best with the accessory pins and make use of the custom camera stuff.
EniGmA1987 said:
A very valid concern. Especially since these sorts of people and companies throw a bunch of money at stuff and if it doesnt look like it is going to get the giant return on the investment they hope within a year or so then they do shut it down and move on to their next big thing.
My other concern with this is if we will get full kernel source or not as well. I would assume yes, since Andy helped make the deal about Andsroid being so open and sources available, but you never know with phone OEMs. Even though this is basically stock ROM, I bet the kernel source will be needed so we can interface the best with the accessory pins and make use of the custom camera stuff.
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Also, even if they make the kernel source available, will the phone be popular with developers? It seems like the sort of phone that might. As you say, Rubin is very supportive of open source (even on the hardware for the modules). But on the other hand, it's an expensive and quirky phone. Even the Pixel (with its huge price jump and move away from the Nexus brand) took much longer to catch on with developers than previous Nexus phones had. I'm hoping the devs like it.
Is root going to be possible for this phone?
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
gk1984 said:
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
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Thank you for answering I happy to hear it I heard this is great now except for the camera app.
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gk1984 said:
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
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Keep in mind, Essential said repeatedly, week after week, while the phone was delayed 90 days beyond when they first said it would be released, that it would be "coming soon."
And they said recently that Oreo would come in the next couple months, which they described as "soon."
And the since it went up in May the website has said that the Stellar Grey and Ocean Depths colors would be "available soon." Even though in the AMA they admitted that they had no idea when those colors would be availalbe and in fact they don't even know how to get ceramic to be those colors, with their attempts so far failing (in other words, they said "available soon" for something they don't actually know how to make).
So Essential's idea of "soon" tends to be months and/or never. And, really, Essential seems to just say "soon" whenever anything is not ready, but they don't want people to go away, so instead they say "soon" to the point of meaninglessness, because they are unable to be honest about what's really going on.
I'm not saying they won't release the kernel source. I'm just saying their promises about when something might happen are empty and "soon" is just used as a delaying tactic.
cb474 said:
Keep in mind, Essential said repeatedly, week after week, while the phone was delayed 90 days beyond when they first said it would be released, that it would be "coming soon."
And they said recently that Oreo would come in the next couple months, which they described as "soon."
And the since it went up in May the website has said that the Stellar Grey and Ocean Depths colors would be "available soon." Even though in the AMA they admitted that they had no idea when those colors would be availalbe and in fact they don't even know how to get ceramic to be those colors, with their attempts so far failing (in other words, they said "available soon" for something they don't actually know how to make).
So Essential's idea of "soon" tends to be months and/or never. And, really, Essential seems to just say "soon" whenever anything is not ready, but they don't want people to go away, so instead they say "soon" to the point of meaninglessness, because they are unable to be honest about what's really going on.
I'm not saying they won't release the kernel source. I'm just saying their promises about when something might happen are empty and "soon" is just used as a delaying tactic.
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The AMA said "a couple days" so it might be sooner than "soon"
I guess expected to much because Andy Rubin was involved. The whole internet is saying essential was released too soon, that they should have worked out all the bugs first.
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canynballa said:
I guess expected to much because Andy Rubin was involved. The whole internet is saying essential was released too soon, that they should have worked out all the bugs first.
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
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It really was. That and them being severely understaffed, not a good combination.
What really bugs me is releasing kernel is a matter of a clicking a button and they have yet to click that upload button. Very frustrating. I have tried reaching out to them on Facebook and Twitter but there has been zero word from essential or Andy since the AMA. Their silence is troubling
I had the phone and really like the build quality.
What disappointed me was that no source released, so no customs recovery.
No image so you could return the phone back to stock.
No cases.
I sent it back and will see what V2 looks like.
hellot1M said:
What really bugs me is releasing kernel is a matter of a clicking a button and they have yet to click that upload button. Very frustrating. I have tried reaching out to them on Facebook and Twitter but there has been zero word from essential or Andy since the AMA. Their silence is troubling
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I'm not Android technical but wasn't there mention of proprietary assets mingled it and would need to be removed? Also read somewhere that OnePlus released theirs but it was still hard to create kernels because of the way they released the source. I think it was someone on the AMA thread.
*edit*
C&P from the AMA below. Doesn't specifically mention kernel....
[–]AmirZ 8 points 11 days ago
So, ROM development. Can you commit to releasing ALL of your framework sources like Google does with AOSP and Nexus? One frustration with OnePlus is that their released sources are missing parts and thus work a lot worse than their real OS (OxygenOS).
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[–]EssentialOfficial 13 points 11 days ago
This actually turns out to be really hard technically. We're going to try to do more and more of this over time but ensuring you separate out any close source proprietary bits from the rest, but that things still work well is a big challenge. -Rebecca
flakko86 said:
The AMA said "a couple days" so it might be sooner than "soon"
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Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
gqukyo said:
I'm not Android technical but wasn't there mention of proprietary assets mingled it and would need to be removed? Also read somewhere that OnePlus released theirs but it was still hard to create kernels because of the way they released the source. I think it was someone on the AMA thread.
*edit*
C&P from the AMA below. Doesn't specifically mention kernel....
[–]AmirZ 8 points 11 days ago
So, ROM development. Can you commit to releasing ALL of your framework sources like Google does with AOSP and Nexus? One frustration with OnePlus is that their released sources are missing parts and thus work a lot worse than their real OS (OxygenOS).
permalinkembedsavereportgive goldREPLYpocket
[–]EssentialOfficial 13 points 11 days ago
This actually turns out to be really hard technically. We're going to try to do more and more of this over time but ensuring you separate out any close source proprietary bits from the rest, but that things still work well is a big challenge. -Rebecca
Click to expand...
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Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
cb474 said:
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
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Not good.
cb474 said:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
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Gotta have that special sauce... lol
cb474 said:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.
On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.
https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560
So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
flakko86 said:
Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.
On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.
https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560
So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
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That is a more generous way to look at it.
It's true the Verizon thing is the one thing I'm aware of where they made a promise about when something would happen and did it. I didn't say they never kept their promises. I said they have simply failed to keep them just about without exception. They didn't really promise a specific time on the security updates, as far as I'm aware, but it is good that they did it right away. Anyway, there have been so many promises they have not kept that I'm underwhelmed by the one instance where they did.
But, for me, the thing really is they have been called out repeatedly on tech sites and even in the AMA about their promises and not keeping them. Instead of owning up to that, they just do it again. They have been called out even more on how bad the camera is, especially in low light, and how it's inferior hardware can never live up to the hype. And yet to this day their website still says: "That’s why we put so much effort into developing one of the world’s best phone cameras." And: "This results in stunning images that are rich in color and detail, even in low light." (CNET critized them for keeping this on their website.) The camera was also brought up in the AMA. Rubin's response was hand waving jibberish about "computational photography," which is a technical term for bull**** (isn't, after all, all digital photography "computational"). Rubin also said, " We are pretty happy with the hardware design of the camera," even though the inferior sensors they are using was public knowledge by then. Rubin as recently as four days ago claimed in Time Magazine (http://time.com/4950677/andy-rubin-essential-interview/) that the reviewers received phones with incomplete camera software and that caused the problems, but there have been subsequent updates. This was long after the reviews had been out, the updates had been issued, and all the reviewers said it made little to no difference. This is not honesty. That is engaging knowningly in PR bull and trying to obfuscate something.
It's one thing to overpromise. It's another thing to overpromise and when you are called out on it double down on the overpromising. Further, there is zero way that the engineers within the company who worked on the camera didn't know that they were using sensors that are not as good as the best camera phones, so they knowingly claimed to make "one of the world's best phone cameras" when they knew that couldn't be true. They released the phone with that camera anyway, because there was nothing (much) more to be done.
Lastly, yes they are small and overworked. That seems clear. But even here, in promotional events, over and over, they have hyped the fact that being small makes them more effective and efficient, because there are not a lot of layers of bureaucracy to go through to make decisions and get things done. Yet clearly, being small in Essential's case means there are a lot of things they don't have time to do that well (and may never have time). And they have never said, oh, we're small, be patient. They have said over and over, being small makes us better. So if they weren't out there promoting the benefits of being small in contradiction to the reality, it would be easier to forgive them on this account.
When you add it all up, I just don't buy that it comes down to a simple tendency to overpromise. As they say, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think they are being knowingly dishonest or, at best, knowingly engaging in PR misdirection to try to mislead people about problems with the phone and company.
cb474 said:
That is a more generous way to look at it.
It's true the Verizon thing is the one thing I'm aware of where they made a promise about when something would happen and did it. I didn't say they never kept their promises. I said they have simply failed to keep them just about without exception. They didn't really promise a specific time on the security updates, as far as I'm aware, but it is good that they did it right away. Anyway, there have been so many promises they have not kept that I'm underwhelmed by the one instance where they did.
But, for me, the thing really is they have been called out repeatedly on tech sites and even in the AMA about their promises and not keeping them. Instead of owning up to that, they just do it again. They have been called out even more on how bad the camera is, especially in low light, and how it's inferior hardware can never live up to the hype. And yet to this day their website still says: "That’s why we put so much effort into developing one of the world’s best phone cameras." And: "This results in stunning images that are rich in color and detail, even in low light." (CNET critized them for keeping this on their website.) The camera was also brought up in the AMA. Rubin's response was hand waving jibberish about "computational photography," which is a technical term for bull**** (isn't, after all, all digital photography "computational"). Rubin also said, " We are pretty happy with the hardware design of the camera," even though the inferior sensors they are using was public knowledge by then. Rubin as recently as four days ago claimed in Time Magazine (http://time.com/4950677/andy-rubin-essential-interview/) that the reviewers received phones with incomplete camera software and that caused the problems, but there have been subsequent updates. This was long after the reviews had been out, the updates had been issued, and all the reviewers said it made little to no difference. This is not honesty. That is engaging knowningly in PR bull and trying to obfuscate something.
It's one thing to overpromise. It's another thing to overpromise and when you are called out on it double down on the overpromising. Further, there is zero way that the engineers within the company who worked on the camera didn't know that they were using sensors that are not as good as the best camera phones, so they knowingly claimed to make "one of the world's best phone cameras" when they knew that couldn't be true. They released the phone with that camera anyway, because there was nothing (much) more to be done.
Lastly, yes they are small and overworked. That seems clear. But even here, in promotional events, over and over, they have hyped the fact that being small makes them more effective and efficient, because there are not a lot of layers of bureaucracy to go through to make decisions and get things done. Yet clearly, being small in Essential's case means there are a lot of things they don't have time to do that well (and may never have time). And they have never said, oh, we're small, be patient. They have said over and over, being small makes us better. So if they weren't out there promoting the benefits of being small in contradiction to the reality, it would be easier to forgive them on this account.
When you add it all up, I just don't buy that it comes down to a simple tendency to overpromise. As they say, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think they are being knowingly dishonest or, at best, knowingly engaging in PR misdirection to try to mislead people about problems with the phone and company.
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I remember reading somewhere that someone messaged customer service and the rep said they would try to release the patches within two weeks of google's release.
I agree with you about the camera and how they are handling it. I think the AMA question should have been worded a bit more differently like "You claim to have one if the best cameras in the world but you are using a 2 year old sensor that is known to have problems with capturing images in low light. Other competitors at this price range such as the Google Pixel and the Samsung Galaxy S8 have far superior sensors. Can you really optimize the software that much to compete with them?". Something like that. Anyways, I forgot which reviewer stated it but there's a lot of hubris coming out of this company and I think that's what's causing them to have that "do no wrong" attitude, and Im not a big fan of it.
As for them being a small company, while the downside is not being able to handle handle thousands of orders and customers efficiently especially with a rushed buggy product (of course they will never admit that cuz hubris), im finding more recently that they are starting to frequent Reddit more often and I was assured when I sent the big bug report out, which was responded to in less than a day, that the company monitors the essential subreddit religiously and the software team is and will be referencing that thread. They aren't wrong in their statement about them being a smaller company. They just gotta shoot the issues and suggestions straight to the top making decisions a lot more efficient than a larger company. All I'm saying is let the dust settle from the launch and see how they deal with it the upcoming months
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
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That's how OnePlus was.... their OPO launch was pretty horrible. They're doing much better now. Still with some hiccups but definitely much better than when they launched their first phone.
canynballa said:
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
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Yes, I agree, what will really be telling will be if they incorporate any of the criticisms of the Ph-1 into the Ph-2 (assuming there is a Ph-2).
I received this reply this morning. No dates, but it sounds encouraging.
Erich T (Essential Products)
Sep 27, 9:32 AM MST
Hi Mark,
Thank you for reaching out.
We are going to support the 3rd party developer community by releasing our kernel and factory images. These will be made available soon, but I don't have a confirmed date at this time.
I don't know at this point where they will be uploaded to, but please stay tuned to Essential.com, and our social media channels for announcements.
If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to reach back out to us. Have a great day!
Sincerely,
Erich
Essential Customer Experience Team