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Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?
Exactly!
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
How do you not see a need for developers?
Sent From My Toro+ via White Tapatalk
It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.
The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.
The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig
I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.
The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.
Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Let's be honest to ourselves here guys, out beloved Moto X Style was officially released in September which means this phone has now been out for at least 3 months and while all the effort that has since been put in this devices by key developers and people from day 1 up till now is very much appreciated and will continue to be appreciated, the development of this device compared to most flagships has been slow motion.
I am just trying to understand what the hell went wrong with this phone that made it end up with such super slow motion development, as when I originally bought the device I was thinking this phone would be at least in the top 20 most active phones on XDA development wise.
It had so much going for it, easy root, easy unlockable bootloader, a pretty much almost complete stock version of android, kernel sources released and motorolas good track record of updating their flagship phones in a timely manner and good hardware to accompany the great bloatware free stock software and a cheap price compared to some other flagships from other companies such as Samsung and Sony
With all this in mind I thought developers would flock to this device and we would have a massive development forum with loads of options between custom roms, mods, themes and other tweaks etc
But this is far from the case and I know the Nexus 6P being released probably had something to do with it, Still this should have been at least in top 20
At first I thought when Android 6.0 MM will be released development will increase then we needed the kernel sources as that was apparently not enough, then we had kernel sources but apart from 1 or 2 roms showing up being in alpha stages nothings changed too much.
This is such a disappointment to say the least.
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?
djsynth said:
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.
When i had the one plus one there were so many roms that was a brain storm... I prefer some and reliable roms than a plethora where you get confused!!!
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO you hit the nail on the head. I love this phone. I had the MXPE 2014 as well, was not a fan. Also owned the original, Loved it.
This MXPE has been great in imo, the lack of development has not been disappointing to me. The stock rom is really pretty good, there are minor tweaks that can be done but most can do these on their own.
I used to be a flash-aholic, but like @GretaLewd has stated...custom roms tend to break things. I'm more in favor of kernel development. But how many different kernels can you have? One way or another they'll be the same.
I also own a Nexus 6P, but my MXPE is my go to device.
I see users complaining about this phone constantly, I really don't think it matters what phone you put in the hands of those users...they would still find fault and complain.
Motorola and Lenovo did good by this device, I just hope they keep up with incrementals for a while.
Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Good thread. Would love to hear more thoughts
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Ordered the device today. Hope slow development doesn't disappoint me on this device, as others have stated...
I have been using this device for 2 months now. I am happy with it an didn't face a single issue. I can do a little bit tweaking myself using Xposed.
So far the slow development doesn't bother me.
Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.
chrisund123 said:
Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.
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Click to collapse
That's a good way to approach Android phones I suppose but I believe
it's still nice to buy a phone that's great out of the box and good development wise, usually flagships tend to have good development and then the mid range and low end phones tend to get smaller developments but I guess there's an exception to everything.
patt2k said:
Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
I doubt that's the reason since 64 Bit has been the standard since Lollipop and pretty much all the flagships have a 64bit cpu since the beggining of 2015 but that doesn't stop other development forums from flourishing.
GretaLewd said:
I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your break down on your thoughts of the subject and I must admit you've mention some very valid points here especially Point 1,2 and 5 but I think out of all of these its Point 1 and 2 that are the most significant, I suppose Motorola have a really small market share explains the lack of adoption between developers when comparing to some of the more prominent manufacturers such as samsung.
and The Android Stock OS has improved significantly within the past couple of years adding some new features that previously people had to root their phones to acomplish such as full app permission controls and backing up app data which google does for you now.
You need to follow development before buying a device these days. i.e. always wait at least 1-2 months. If you follow the development forums you would get an idea if developers are interested in said device or not. I for one, bought it right after I found out that AICP (CM12) rom was being developed. I was interested in running CM13 instead of other AOSP variations. And before I got the device the first (almost daily driver) builds were already uploaded.
Once cm is solid quite a few roms will pop up. Won't be long now.
Official MM has only been out for our phone for a little over a month. give it some time it may pick up. either way it's still an awesome phone out the box... and as stated above, once CM13 is stable im sure we'll see some of the other custom ROMs that are based off it.
GretaLewd said:
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great point, but I'd like to add that this is especially applicable to our MXPE. We're really close to stock as it is, so there's little motivation to go ROM to debloat like there is on Samsung, LG, and similar phones. On the flip side, we have a lot of really neat features (active display, approach, accelerator gestures, voice controls) that we would lose if we went ROM.
For me, these two points combine, leaving me with little motivation to ROM my phone, especially since I can could get most of the advantages of CyanogenMod with something like GravityBox, which will allow me to keep the Motorola features (I'm currently unrooted because of the warranty, but I'll be rooted in the future for sure) . Of course, these are my own personal opinions, but I suspect that they reflect at least some of the mindset of this community.
I agree with others, that custom roms are often more trouble than they're worth. The only reason to use them these days is if your device isn't going to be updated to the latest version of Android.
Ever since moto introduced 99% stock android + moto display, roms have been entirely unnecessary for me. I used to rom my phones to gain greater flexibility + customizability. Now that I have stock android + Xposed, I doubt I will ever flash another custom rom again.
I'm still waiting for custom super roms that will make this device best in the market. Why can we have a rom with 1080p display, tweak kernel with better control for heating issue for overall battery life and speed?
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
The biggest issue is that developers don't support devices they don't own. With the launch of the nexus 6 (not the 6p) most developers got it and had no need to update to a y newer devices.
Also to the comment that all flag ships are 64 bit this is not the case. If you look the most popular devices as far as developers are concerned are non 64 bit.
Also as android matures you will see less and less roms. As it will be come harder. There are very few real development teams. Most are just kitchen sink roms. A base with tons of cherry picks and a new name. Nothing even worth looking at twice. But more developers are closing up the source of their projects because of these types of roms.
To be honest most users have no point in flashing roms. Only those that like the development side of it will continue to mod roms and flash things.
Good Hello Everyone,
so I just got my S7 edge today aaand the first thing I do after getting home is obviously visit the S7 edge section on xda! but oh boy... what's this what I'm seeing! or should I say not seeing? basically no roms and not a single custom kernel!!! I'm deceased:crying:.
WHY? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??? :crying:
Development on the S6 was simply great. Switching to a Note 5 well not so great but had some gems. But now "upgrading" to a S7 edge and being faced with this tragedy? Oh man I hope this changes in the near future.
I wouldn't expect any change to the U.S. version. If rooting is really important to you, return the phone while you can.
I have to ask, though: Why didn't you look at XDA before deciding what phone to buy?
meyerweb said:
I wouldn't expect any change to the U.S. version. If rooting is really important to you, return the phone while you can.
I have to ask, though: Why didn't you look at XDA before deciding what phone to buy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was wondering the same thing.....
Because 2016. Flagships dont really need any development now. The purpose of custom roms was better battery, faster speeds, less lag, etc. But today's flagships already have all of those things. There are no improvements you can make. I have stopped rooting/ROMing my phones since last year because i just dont feel the need anymore. You will probably get a few roms in the future anyway , but I dont think the community will be anywhere near as active as before in the development section.
I'm happy with this phone the way it is actually! So far not missing root for a month now. I shudder to think all the time I spent the past six years rooting, flashing, fixing, etc.
Besides that's what a Nexus is for!
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
I wouldn't go that far as saying the development has stopped. There are coming custom Rom. Tho, not as many as before, I'll agree with that.
When it comes to custom kernel, you can have a look at this tread
Apparently Samsung priorities security because of Samsung pay.
When it comes to what @mahdibassam says, I disagree. A good example was the S6, who had major bugs from Samsung side. The the first to fix it was this community with the custom roms.
There is always room for improvements.
Neemac said:
I wouldn't go that far as saying the development has stopped. There are coming custom Rom. Tho, not as many as before, I'll agree with that.
When it comes to custom kernel, you can have a look at this tread
Apparently Samsung priorities security because of Samsung pay.
When it comes to what @mahdibassam says, I disagree. A good example was the S6, who had major bugs from Samsung side. The the first to fix it was this community with the custom roms.
There is always room for improvements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, if a phone is buggy, then that warrants the need for a custom rom. E.g. the LG G4 was in dire need of improvement. But can you give me one area where the S7 edge is lacking and would need a custom rom to fix? I really cant think of any.
mahdibassam said:
Well, if a phone is buggy, then that warrants the need for a custom rom. E.g. the LG G4 was in dire need of improvement. But can you give me one area where the S7 edge is lacking and would need a custom rom to fix? I really cant think of any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're happy with the S7 as it is, then that's good. But for me, and many others, the phone ain't complete "mine" until root is there, and maybe some custom roms, where they are already debloated and deodexd.
It's all about custom preference
Especially the kernel part is important for me, as that's the real thing when it comes too set the phone free, and really get the use of all the power the phone holds.
chieco said:
Good Hello Everyone,
so I just got my S7 edge today aaand the first thing I do after getting home is obviously visit the S7 edge section on xda! but oh boy... what's this what I'm seeing! or should I say not seeing? basically no roms and not a single custom kernel!!! I'm deceased:crying:.
WHY? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??? :crying:
Development on the S6 was simply great. Switching to a Note 5 well not so great but had some gems. But now "upgrading" to a S7 edge and being faced with this tragedy? Oh man I hope this changes in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Development will begin, it is still a new phone. The software on S7 is less intrusive but I fully understand you would like a customized device experience and being a flagship device you assumed this one will be well supported by the developers(which it will, just a matter of time).
S7 edge exynos has some kicking roms. Loving it
Sent from my Pebble Time
Neemac said:
I wouldn't go that far as saying the development has stopped. There are coming custom Rom. Tho, not as many as before, I'll agree with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for the North American version with it's locked bootloader.
Is not been released more than a month. We already have root and a handful of Roms.
Not sure why you think development is dead. Just at the moment is not really required as the phones are smooth as it is.
Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app
mahdibassam said:
Because 2016. Flagships dont really need any development now. The purpose of custom roms was better battery, faster speeds, less lag, etc. But today's flagships already have all of those things. There are no improvements you can make. I have stopped rooting/ROMing my phones since last year because i just dont feel the need anymore. You will probably get a few roms in the future anyway , but I dont think the community will be anywhere near as active as before in the development section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously?
-Viper4Android
-Xposed (and therefore essential modules like Xprivacy, Xtouchwiz, MinMinGuard, YouTube AdAway and App Settings)
-Adblock (non-root ad blocking solutions are mediocre at best)
-AFWall+
-Titanium Backup
-Greenify (will work without root but hibernation of apps needs to be manual)
The list goes on. You can choose not to root, but you can't say improvements can't be made to stock by doing so. That will never be the case in my view.
mahdibassam said:
Because 2016. Flagships dont really need any development now. The purpose of custom roms was better battery, faster speeds, less lag, etc. But today's flagships already have all of those things. There are no improvements you can make. I have stopped rooting/ROMing my phones since last year because i just dont feel the need anymore. You will probably get a few roms in the future anyway , but I dont think the community will be anywhere near as active as before in the development section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course there are improvements to make. There always is. Stock is never heavily debloated or as efficient as custom, as stock should be over stable.. So customer's don't complain about problems.
If the battery and speed are good stock, you can just make it even better custom. Like change alarms and wakelocks on thing you personally don't need. Debloat things running in the background, hibernate them, set cpu work queues, change network when screen of and so on.
Beefheart said:
Seriously?
-Viper4Android
-Xposed (and therefore essential modules like Xprivacy, Xtouchwiz, MinMinGuard, YouTube AdAway and App Settings)
-Adblock (non-root ad blocking solutions are mediocre at best)
-AFWall+
-Titanium Backup
-Greenify (will work without root but hibernation of apps needs to be manual)
The list goes on. You can choose not to root, but you can't say improvements can't be made to stock by doing so. That will never be the case in my view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Faspaiso said:
Of course there are improvements to make. There always is. Stock is never heavily debloated or as efficient as custom, as stock should be over stable.. So customer's don't complain about problems.
If the battery and speed are good stock, you can just make it even better custom. Like change alarms and wakelocks on thing you personally don't need. Debloat things running in the background, hibernate them, set cpu work queues, change network when screen of and so on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally get what you saying guys, I am just giving my own opinion, as you are. Each to their own i guess. I just dont see the need to put myself through the hassle of root and recovery and the manually flashing every update through recovery, and then a clean install with every new base and etc. The phone is just good enough as it is out of the box, FOR ME. I would love to have Greenify again, but frankly the battery life is just really good and I dont feel the need to go through the trouble to get it , and I have never used Xposed anyway.
But all in all, what puts me off from going the custom rom way these days is 1) The phone is just perfect as it is (again, for me) 2) I cant be bothered to flash every update through recovery and etc and do a clean flash with every new base and all the other stuff that comes with custom roms
But hey, this is the beauty of android isnt it, it caters to everyone, including me and you
chieco said:
Good Hello Everyone,
so I just got my S7 edge today aaand the first thing I do after getting home is obviously visit the S7 edge section on xda! but oh boy... what's this what I'm seeing! or should I say not seeing? basically no roms and not a single custom kernel!!! I'm deceased:crying:.
WHY? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??? :crying:
Development on the S6 was simply great. Switching to a Note 5 well not so great but had some gems. But now "upgrading" to a S7 edge and being faced with this tragedy? Oh man I hope this changes in the near future.
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Because the stock firmware is good enough so no development is needed.
You already have great battery life, theme support, ad blocking support, many other customization options.
mahdibassam said:
I totally get what you saying guys, I am just giving my own opinion, as you are. Each to their own i guess. I just dont see the need to put myself through the hassle of root and recovery and the manually flashing every update through recovery, and then a clean install with every new base and etc. The phone is just good enough as it is out of the box, FOR ME. I would love to have Greenify again, but frankly the battery life is just really good and I dont feel the need to go through the trouble to get it , and I have never used Xposed anyway.
But all in all, what puts me off from going the custom rom way these days is 1) The phone is just perfect as it is (again, for me) 2) I cant be bothered to flash every update through recovery and etc and do a clean flash with every new base and all the other stuff that comes with custom roms
But hey, this is the beauty of android isnt it, it caters to everyone, including me and you
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That's great, and in a way I'm envious. But there are simply too many applications I can't do without that require root.
Cst79 said:
Because the stock firmware is good enough so no development is needed.
You already have great battery life, theme support, ad blocking support, many other customization options.
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Ad blocking on non-root is via VPN. It's ropey and unreliable at best. Certainly it doesn't hold a candle to what can be achieved with root and proper hosts editing. Also, Xprivacy for me is essential, I'd go so far as calling it my most important application. Combine it with a firewall like AFWall+ and, in terms of privacy, my phone is locked down. Non-root firewalls, like non-root ad blockers, work on VPN, and are again unreliable in comparison. Plus you can't protect against data leaks on boot. But I guess it comes down to what we want from our phones.
LOL. Does this question really need to be asked? If you look around in the forums you'll see that the dev community for this phone is almost non-existent because of its locked bootloader.
HesThatGuy said:
LOL. Does this question really need to be asked? If you look around in the forums you'll see that the dev community for this phone is almost non-existent because of its locked bootloader.
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"It" doesn't have a locked bootloader. The US Snapdragon variant does.
HesThatGuy said:
LOL. Does this question really need to be asked? If you look around in the forums you'll see that the dev community for this phone is almost non-existent because of its locked bootloader.
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Such confidence, 'LOL' ing people, yet you are wrong and spreading false information. The Exynos variant already has a few ROMS. The bootloader is unlocked. Only the Snapdragon is locked.
Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app
Ok so cyanogenmod.org got all moto devices listed and they said moto g series getting cyanogen 14.1 but moto g4 plus not anywhere in cyanogenmod.org list:crying:
I hate unofficial buggy ROMs
mayank.bhola1 said:
Ok so cyanogenmod.org got all moto devices listed and they said moto g series getting cyanogen 14.1 but moto g4 plus not anywhere in cyanogenmod.org list:crying:
I hate unofficial buggy ROMs
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Official roms are buggy too if you ever tried nightlies or snapshots. And we will see, maybe official will come until cm statet it comes not
They didn't say all G family, they post this list:
falcon, peregrine, titan, thea, osprey
They are 1st 2nd and 3rd Gen.
FlaminisRex said:
They didn't say all G family, they post this list:
falcon, peregrine, titan, thea, osprey
They are 1st 2nd and 3rd Gen.
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If it's not in the list, it will be added, thats possible.
@mayank.bhola1:
No need to scared and say it will never come. If you didn't have a proof, don't open such scaring threads "no official cyanogen 14.1" that's really annoying to others, because some people trust it and won't buy the device maybe(just an opinion)
I avoid anything cm based. Always worse on battery life.
trsix said:
I avoid anything cm based. Always worse on battery life.
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That's not true that all cm based has "always" worse battery life. On my galaxy's I got more battery compared to Samsung roms(official or mod) and also on my other devices cm gives me more battery life then stock, even to aosp! Maybe you encountered bad experiences, but it totally depends on the device tree, drivers, modem, source, etc etc... And the knowledge of the dev :angel:
My experience with CM was that a lot of the features added where useless to me and they just added battery drain and new bugs. And when a bug was fixed in a nightly, there was a good chance that another two bugs would pop up.
Not cool if you really need to use your phone as a phone. Maybe OK if you don't have a job or you stay at home all the time.
SoNic67 said:
My experience with CM was that a lot of the features added where useless to me and they just added battery drain and new bugs. And when a bug was fixed in a nightly, there was a good chance that another two bugs would pop up.
Not cool if you really need to use your phone as a phone. Maybe OK if you don't have a job or you stay at home all the time.
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So you concluding that we must stick to stock ROMs ??
Depends of what you do for living... and if need a reliable phone line for that.
SoNic67 said:
Depends of what you do for living... and if need a reliable phone line for that.
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I knew a device which stock cos rom is the hell on earth(random reboots, bugs, freezes) compared to cm and nearly all people saying wow after flashing cm instead of staying on stock. CM is widely available for devices and always a chance to get more out of your device when the manufacturer gives up the development after launching the device or won't fix bugs in acceptable time.
Not the case here. Moto firmware is stable and not bloated.
CM is best after OEM leaves device support. I had Asus Zenfone 5 earlier but no official CM so developers made unofficial one but Asus had serious issues with bootloader unlock as no developer was able to resolve screen freeze issues. So running custom ROMs on that device was hell bad.
If you think making cm and make it official is easy then do it urself, we really want to see. Things are not same as 1st,2nd &3rd. The chipset are way different than the previous gen. So stop posting useless things. Dont open thread for you own satisfaction.
Just my $0.02 : The premise behind getting a custom ROM is that it's for those who have an above average idea about OS, customizations, working on a system level and such.
The whole argument about stability, and what one does for their living is a bit too far fetched in context of using a device that is dependable. Stock ROMs are made by OEMs keeping a novice end-user in view, who may or may not have sufficient time, knowledge or inclination of going beyond what the device came shipped with.
Custom ROMs and development is undertaken almost completely as a voluntary exercise by the devs, mostly on cost of their own resources and go far as to offer their work off forum threads which they'd personally support. Those flashing and modding devices are ones testing the work undertaken by devs, and even after a ROM gets official status, work on development continues with feedback from users and updating security, porting features from other devices, expanding customization et al.
Battery use, smoothness of UI, connectivity, stability, obviously are essential to one's experience of using their phone, but are highly dependent on how well one's put to use the abilities of their custom ROM, apart from what applications or settings one's gotten on, and that would come about only with experimenting, learning and keeping oneself updated with their device's software.
Stock ROMs, barring the few odd ones which run stock Android are almost always crammed with bloatware, uncustomizable UI/features and locked in to a mesh of regulatory compliances, OEM/vendor/third party interests and above all marketing the device as a product - which means you're good to go for just about as long as the OEM cares, and that isn't usually long enough given they'd obviously be focused on selling newer products.
So, it's just that mileage may vary but if you're willing to stick around to learn and experiment, customizing is the only way to truly own your phone.
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using XDA Labs
Frances91 said:
...
Stock ROMs, barring the few odd ones which run stock Android are almost always crammed with bloatware, uncustomizable UI/features and locked in to a mesh of regulatory compliances, OEM/vendor/third party interests and above all marketing the device as a product - which means you're good to go for just about as long as the OEM cares, and that isn't usually long enough given they'd obviously be focused on selling newer products.
So, it's just that mileage may vary but if you're willing to stick around to learn and experiment, customizing is the only way to truly own your phone.
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using XDA Labs
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I think the G4 is close to AOSP. Using Xposed you can get many fancy features found in custom roms. GravityBox gives you much of what CM offers.
Security features make it much more difficult to customize a phone. Pay by phone, i.e. "Wallet" will become important.
Custom roms are used more now for keeping old phones current. Not that much happening with new phones. Look at CyanogenMod https://download.cyanogenmod.org/ to view this.
king200 said:
I think the G4 is close to AOSP. Using Xposed you can get many fancy features found in custom roms. GravityBox gives you much of what CM offers.
Security features make it much more difficult to customize a phone. Pay by phone, i.e. "Wallet" will become important.
Custom roms are used more now for keeping old phones current. Not that much happening with new phones. Look at CyanogenMod https://download.cyanogenmod.org/ to view this.
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If you're considering using Xposed for the 'fancy features' and use wallet, and yet vouch for stock Roms I'm not sure what you're on to. You'd need for more mods running on a stock ROM which would anyways take months or even years to get updated to run latest Android versions. Some times you'd just stick around with frequent updates which are still two SDK versions behind the current official release, basically cycling through bloat, partner apps and constant rooting, modding to just keep your phone worth it's use.
As for new phones, it takes a fair amount of time, effort and understanding to access available sources and build a device tree from which custom ROMs are built.
Besides, not many users, unless they've specifically bought the new device to work on development, adopt customization till about several months after their purchase. As for CyanogenMod site they list the official ROMs, which are painstakingly built after months of testing. What you see on there are mostly devices which are either usually a year old or are stock Android - both being fitting scenarios for system level modifications to drive both performance and customization. You'd be hard pressed to find Android OEMs updating devices or even offering security patches for long.
Also, do remember MIUI, Oxygen and several other OEM ROMs that run across some of the most successful phones evolved from the custom ROMs community development.
And yeah, there's the custom kernels as well which almost always need a custom ROM.
Unless you've hit upon a groundbreaking counter claim to all the benefit of custom ROMs you would be among a tiny minority of informed users who ascribe to that idea. I would really like to benefit from what you can share about it, I am sure I can hit up the devs in my subscribed threads and help them make better decision with their time and efforts.
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using XDA Labs
If i knew that this phone pixel xl has a very few ROMs and MODs i wouldn't really buy it, i prefer oneplus phones... it's just disappointing
driss.sadok said:
If i knew that this phone pixel xl has a very few ROMs and MODs i wouldn't really buy it, i prefer oneplus phones... it's just disappointing
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7.x seems like it was a real challenge for developers with the a/b partitions etc. Hoping the 8 treble improvements will help that situation out. The Sony theming engine already has helped me via substratum.
Still I'm thinking the stock room hasn't given me any reason to move. In general the deviations from AOSP I like.
But yes, sure isn't a Nexus 5.
I think it's down to the price. I see no reason to buy this to Dev on over any other device Pixel just isn't value for money and nowhere near as popular as some of the other devices out there
People griping about "Very Less DEVS" certainly won't improve the situation. Thread reported to mods. If you want to complain, at least use the right forum.
I'd rather have "very less" stable quality software rather than the trash I see in some of the custom roms.
Android has matured a significant amount since the EZroot days of the Droid 1 days to the point where the OS already comes from factory with the customization that people used custom ROMs for.
That, plus the frequency of monthly updates and the need for the rom developer to keep up with the monthy updates PLUS incorporating new ways to circumvent the safetynet check has made modifying less sought after.
I'm pretty sure the majority of people people that rooted and ran ROMs were for the purpose of increasing functionality and not solely for the purpose of saying "I modified my phone".
Placebo init.d scripts and build.prop days flooded the "developer" community for some time until people caught up with it. If a company could incorporate ways to increase speed and battery life without losing functionality, wouldn't you think they would do it so they can have an edge against their competition?
So I ask, what are you looking for in a custom rom that isn't available right now?
ChongoDroid said:
I'd rather have "very less" stable quality software rather than the trash I see in some of the custom roms.
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Have to agree. I am running rooted stock and have all the mods I need with great battery life. I get the need for some people wanting to run custom roms for missing options from the stock rom, but with custom roms also comes with bugs.
Yea when I originally purchased this last year I figured the dev community would be huge. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the awesome ROMs we have just thought it would be a bigger scene. Seeing as how the phone is very expensive and if you want an unlocked bootloader you have to buy it through Google it makes sense (yes some Verizon models could be unlocked before updating). In general I still love the phone and it's by far better than anything I've had before. I don't upgrade phones often because I always wait for very good deals (Pixel for $140 new) so I'll likely have this for years.
ins5736 said:
People griping about "Very Less DEVS" certainly won't improve the situation. Thread reported to mods. If you want to complain, at least use the right forum.
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THANK U but i think this forum is the discussion too, so it's the right place to complain.. i wasn't complaining only for mods, roms too ... i think u get my point
scottjal said:
7.x seems like it was a real challenge for developers with the a/b partitions etc. Hoping the 8 treble improvements will help that situation out. The Sony theming engine already has helped me via substratum.
Still I'm thinking the stock room hasn't given me any reason to move. In general the deviations from AOSP I like.
But yes, sure isn't a Nexus 5.
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i have substratum and i am always on swiftblack, i'm getting bored so can u please link the sony one ? hahahaha i think our phone is only limited in stock system.
richii0207 said:
Android has matured a significant amount since the EZroot days of the Droid 1 days to the point where the OS already comes from factory with the customization that people used custom ROMs for.
That, plus the frequency of monthly updates and the need for the rom developer to keep up with the monthy updates PLUS incorporating new ways to circumvent the safetynet check has made modifying less sought after.
I'm pretty sure the majority of people people that rooted and ran ROMs were for the purpose of increasing functionality and not solely for the purpose of saying "I modified my phone".
Placebo init.d scripts and build.prop days flooded the "developer" community for some time until people caught up with it. If a company could incorporate ways to increase speed and battery life without losing functionality, wouldn't you think they would do it so they can have an edge against their competition?
So I ask, what are you looking for in a custom rom that isn't available right now?
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well i agree with u, and concerning your question i would say that if we can have a different room rather than the stock i would be happy, i used to have, nexus5, N6, N5x, N6P, 1+1 and 1+3.. i always look for something really different than the stock android, like miui or flyme os.. or at least a rom with plenty of features. i am just get bored to have always the same stock system as there is no other cutom oreo rom. i'm not a professional and i never tried to coock some here but i always change and flash my phone and even my family and friends phones . pixel xl is amazing especially with software updates and google things, even the camera app is the best so far and we recently have this new option of "AR STICKERS"... but i am bored that this phone doesn't really make me work on it.
i hope u get the message
aholeinthewor1d said:
Yea when I originally purchased this last year I figured the dev community would be huge. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the awesome ROMs we have just thought it would be a bigger scene. Seeing as how the phone is very expensive and if you want an unlocked bootloader you have to buy it through Google it makes sense (yes some Verizon models could be unlocked before updating). In general I still love the phone and it's by far better than anything I've had before. I don't upgrade phones often because I always wait for very good deals (Pixel for $140 new) so I'll likely have this for years.
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what u said is exactly what i meant by making this post, and honestly this phone is the best so far, i just expected more devs on it as it's a huge phone especially a google phone.
To the OP,
It's been pretty clear for some time that there aren't many rooms for the Pixel XL: are you sure that you really could not have known this before you got one?
I'm not that bothered that there isn't much development: less is more, there's less necessity than a few years ago and the pace of updates and safetynet make this a more intensive task (as mentioned by others). I have root and only use this for very specific features like adblocking.
I've had 3 OnePlus phones (2, 3 & 5) and each generation of Nexus/Pixel (bar two: GNex and N6... I had the Pixel 2 but returned it as faulty). A number of the roms/mods for 1+ are attempts to replicate Nexus/Pixel features, with the rest fairly pointless shortcuts and 'features' of little value (and often already accessible through an app). Substratum does most all you need for theming, and xposed (apparently almost ready for Oreo as the biggest jump was to Nougat) takes care of much of the other stuff.
driss.sadok said:
well i agree with u, and concerning your question i would say that if we can have a different room rather than the stock i would be happy, i used to have, nexus5, N6, N5x, N6P, 1+1 and 1+3.. i always look for something really different than the stock android, like miui or flyme os.. or at least a rom with plenty of features. i am just get bored to have always the same stock system as there is no other cutom oreo rom. i'm not a professional and i never tried to coock some here but i always change and flash my phone and even my family and friends phones . pixel xl is amazing especially with software updates and google things, even the camera app is the best so far and we recently have this new option of "AR STICKERS"... but i am bored that this phone doesn't really make me work on it.
i hope u get the message
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I think you may have bought the wrong phone if u expected that you were going to need to be replacing the ROM... IMHO, none of the custom ROMs are going to be better optimisized, and its just a fact that none will be utilisizing the latest new android features, being as they are always months behind Google's releases....
custom roms tend to be far better suited for older phones, EOL devices, etc...
you can still get a ton of customizations on the stock ROM, but it comes down to custom kernels, launchers and root apps that can modify the ROM, etc....
I'm curious, what are the compelling features that u need out of rom that u can't get on stock?
driss.sadok said:
THANK U but i think this forum is the discussion too, so it's the right place to complain.. i wasn't complaining only for mods, roms too ... i think u get my point
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The mods must agree with me, not you. Enjoy complaining in the correct forum.
kboya said:
To the OP,
It's been pretty clear for some time that there aren't many rooms for the Pixel XL: are you sure that you really could not have known this before you got one?
I'm not that bothered that there isn't much development: less is more, there's less necessity than a few years ago and the pace of updates and safetynet make this a more intensive task (as mentioned by others). I have root and only use this for very specific features like adblocking.
I've had 3 OnePlus phones (2, 3 & 5) and each generation of Nexus/Pixel (bar two: GNex and N6... I had the Pixel 2 but returned it as faulty). A number of the roms/mods for 1+ are attempts to replicate Nexus/Pixel features, with the rest fairly pointless shortcuts and 'features' of little value (and often already accessible through an app). Substratum does most all you need for theming, and xposed (apparently almost ready for Oreo as the biggest jump was to Nougat) takes care of much of the other stuff.
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Click to collapse
I miss Xposed. So. Freaking. Much.
But not enough to to go back to nougat lol
Last Xposed report was almost ready for Oreo.. a few weeks back
Thank u guys, i know my subject is annoying, but i think i am just addicted to changing all time, and to this forum too lol. but if really Xposed comes to nougat, that would help my sickness
I have had no urge to install a custom ROM or even a kernel since I got the Pixel XL (right after release). Besides my being annoyed by Google putting the search bar on the bottom of the home launcher page and making it non-deletable or even movable, I have been totally happy with bootloader unlocked and rooted stock. My only development frustration is the moving target that the TWRP devs seem to be chasing and the SuperSU transition. I am liking Magisk so far, but I had got used to Chainfire's apps and have a hard time accepting this change LOL.
2nd hand Pixel XL's will swell the user base
liam_davenport said:
I think it's down to the price. I see no reason to buy this to Dev on over any other device Pixel just isn't value for money and nowhere near as popular as some of the other devices out there
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Cheaper 2nd hand XL's will make this phone more popular - I just got mine for £340 and am very pleased with it. (I should be as my previous phone was a Nexus 4 which I loved and nurtured for over 4 years!)
Having said that I'm on 8.1 stock unlocked but not yet rooted.
I'm waiting to see what Project Treble will bring.