This may have been asked many times before but I am having a hard time understanding.
I have a bunch of Qualcomm 2.0 car and wall chargers. I just ordered a nexus 6p. I have ordered USB A to C cables to make the chargers work. What kind of charging speeds can I expect from this?
I know it will charge slower than if I hooked it up to the included charger. But will it charge as fast as the quick charge chargers or much slower like when I hook my phone up to a PC and it charges very slowly.
Cue @Elnrik
He the man for this question. Please ignore my below 'theory' in brackets.
(I would say, assuming your QC2.0 have the right resistors, they will only supply a max of 2.0A to the 6P which takes 3A from the supplied Google charger. So, in short, it should charge the same speed as your other devices but will take longer to go to 100% because the 6P battery is larger. The part i'm confused about, due to conflicting reports is whether the A to C cables can supply 2A from your chargers.)
subhani said:
Cue @Elnrik
He the man for this question. Please ignore my below 'theory' in brackets.
(I would say, assuming your QC2.0 have the right resistors, they will only supply a max of 2.0A to the 6P which takes 3A from the supplied Google charger. So, in short, it should charge the same speed as your other devices but will take longer to go to 100% because the 6P battery is larger. The part i'm confused about, due to conflicting reports is whether the A to C cables can supply 2A from your chargers.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far in my experience the a to c cables charge much slower even with a QC 2.0 charger. I haven't actually measured it but I bought a type c to c charger and cable for my office and can get a full charge from 50% in less than an hour. I use my QC charger at home for over night charging. The charger that came with it had a short cable and was useless for my application so it just sits in a drawer.
I hope this explanation helps you understand better. Let me know if you have questions.
1) Quick Charge 2.0 will attempt to increase voltage at varying current levels to charge compatible Quick Charge devices. The 6P is not Quick Charge compatible, and it requires a constant 5V from it's host.
2) Type A ports do not have a cc pin (configuration channel) to identify itself or to negotiate current with type-c devices. That is why it is the cable which has to do this for the Type A port. It is the job of the Type A to C adaptor/cable to identify (via the correct pullup resistor) to the Type C device that a legacy USB connection is in place. Using the wrong pullup resistor in a cable is akin to deliberately posting a 55mph speed limit sign in a 25mph school zone. When the Type C device sees the resistor in the cable, it knows it is connected to a non-Type C port, and will then use other means to negotiate for power. BC 2.1 (battery charge) protocols are used over the USB 2.0/data wires, and if that fails, it just defaults to legacy current rates.
I hope this post explains things a bit better: http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/accessories/usb-type-c-vs-usb-3-0-3-1-vs-usb-2-0-t3221676
So, the short answer is: using compliant cables, your chargers should provide 1.5A to the phone, which is the limit of BC 2.1. If the chargers do not use BC protocols, then 0.9A or 0.5A should be provided. Just make sure to use compliant cables.
Related
So with all these posts about USB-c to type a cables not being built to spec with the correct resistor, I figured I'd make a post for questions and answers
A few things..
1a. From what I have observed, do not trust what the phone says. If it says charging rapidly it doesn't necessarily mean its rapidly charging.
1b. If the phone says charging slowly or charging then that is a good indication that the cable is legit.. That is from what I observed. I do not take any responsibility if your phone dies.
I know that this point is..misleading since I said "do not trust what the phone says". But again..this is from what I've tested myself over the past days
2. What does charging slowly and charging mean? I really hope a Google dev or someone knowledgeable answers this
3. Download ampere to see how many amps are getting pulled when it is charging
4. This ties into point 1. If using OEM USB-c to type a cable it will say charging slowly. If a legit cable says that then it seems to be legit. Again.. Not my responsibility if your phone dies
5. There are different stages of battery charging. From 0-80% it is fast . once it hits a certain % it will slowly charge. This is by design for batteries
6. Good cables will use 56k resistors. Bad ones will use 10k resistors
7. Even though a traditional computer USB will only output 500ma max, if you plug in a device that wants 3a, like our phones, the port will give it 3a for a split second and can damage the port. A good cable will stop that with the resistance/resistor
Thats it for me.. I am not an expert but I have been playing with multiple cables and reading up on specs and want to give some answers to the questions I had..
Hope this gets sticked or something
I will update this post as more questions come in.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
From what I remember, charging slowly is if it's charging < 1A, charging is between 1A - 2A, and charging rapidly is 2A >. Relying on your phone to tell you if you are charging rapidly isn't the end all to see if the cable is correct, as many can deliver 2.4A which will show as rapid charging, but true rapid charging is 3A.
geoff5093 said:
From what I remember, charging slowly is if it's charging < 1A, charging is between 1A - 2A, and charging rapidly is 2A >. Relying on your phone to tell you if you are charging rapidly isn't the end all to see if the cable is correct, as many can deliver 2.4A which will show as rapid charging, but true rapid charging is 3A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is true but from playing with cables it seems to matter.
When using the same port with non-certified cables it will say charging rapidly. It shouldn't since the port on a computer is only really designed to handle 500ma. The phone is requesting 3a and the cable allows that since it has only 10k/incorrect resistors
The good cable with 56k core will say "hey, the port only allows 500ma, resist me".. This is only from what I've tested with multiple cables
Again like in my OP... This is from my observations
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
I have the Anker PowerPort 2 that has a max of 2.4 amps per port and a Nekteck USB Type C to Type A cable (that's tested and approved by Benson). When trying to charge, the max mA that I've seen is around 1550mA.
Why is that? I was expecting around the max of ~2400,mA
I actually ordered this exact combo on Amazon, curious to test it myself.
Are you using Ampere to measure? If so, before plugging in the cable, you need to note the discharging rate (some negative mA). Then plug in the phone and note the charging rate. You have to add the two numbers together to get the actual amperage from the charger because Ampere can only measure the overall system in/out amperage. So if you were doing something really intensive and plugged into a slow charger, you may see it say "Charging" but have a negative number!
BillyTheRatKing said:
I actually ordered this exact combo on Amazon, curious to test it myself.
Are you using Ampere to measure? If so, before plugging in the cable, you need to note the discharging rate (some negative mA). Then plug in the phone and note the charging rate. You have to add the two numbers together to get the actual amperage from the charger because Ampere can only measure the overall system in/out amperage. So if you were doing something really intensive and plugged into a slow charger, you may see it say "Charging" but have a negative number!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I forgot to mention that stuff! Yes, I am using Ampere and discharge is around -150 to -300mA. The average discharge rate and average charge rate added together (around ~1800mA) still comes up quite a bit short. Hope the combo works out for you. Or at least confirm my findings.
trama09 said:
I forgot to mention that stuff! Yes, I am using Ampere and discharge is around -150 to -300mA. The average discharge rate and average charge rate added together (around ~1800mA) still comes up quite a bit short. Hope the combo works out for you. Or at least confirm my findings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh... I wish that Google engineer would clarify things. Myself and others have been discussing the Type-C spec over here and the documents seem to indicate that a Type-A to Type-C cable that has the proper identifying resistor would be limited to drawing 1.5A. I'm hoping I'm wrong.
Also, try measuring the discharge for a minute or two. I've seen mine settle in around -1000mA if I let it sit awhile. But then, I don't know if that's accurate...
Man, this is such a mess. I got an Aukey 12W / 2.4A Home Travel USB Wall Charger just to see if it there was something wrong with the Anker charger. Nope. The Aukey floats around 1600mA too...
For good measure, I used the supplised USB Type-C to USB A cable - same charge rate. Then I used the charger and C to C - that floats around 2700mA.
Are there any 2.4A chargers that actually charge at that rate?!?!
The USB standard for an in spec Type A to C cable will charge at 1.5A. Only a type C-C will charge at up to 3A. Please Google/search the forum next time before creating an OP. It doesn't matter if you use a Type A to C cable with a 5V. 4A charger it will only give you 1.5A by the USB charging standard. If you use a C-C cable you can get the Max rate
Pilz said:
The USB standard for an in spec Type A to C cable will charge at 1.5A. Only a type C-C will charge at up to 3A. Please Google/search the forum next time before creating an OP. It doesn't matter if you use a Type A to C cable with a 5V. 4A charger it will only give you 1.5A by the USB charging standard. If you use a C-C cable you can get the Max rate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, good idea.
So for Benson's review of the cable, he says, "...you should be able to charge from a range of .5A to 2.4A using this cable." I guess he should've been the one to "please Google/search the forum."
trama09 said:
Hey, good idea.
So for Benson's review of the cable, he says, "...you should be able to charge from a range of .5A to 2.4A using this cable." I guess he should've been the one to "please Google/search the forum."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but he goes on to say in other reviews that the USB A-C standard dictates the output of the cable.
As discussed thoroughly in 2 different OP's which you can find below.
Here is a quote from @Elnrik
"No, when I say proprietary protocols, I mean protocols. Not physical wiring. As in "2.4A, which is negotiated over a BC1.2 protocol like CDP or DCP, is appropriate over the Type-A connector." and "By the way, the maximum current of 1.5A is defined by the BC1.2 specification for CDP and DCP, but in practice, a range of other current values are possible using Apple's proprietary protocol or other protocols that bump up the defacto maximum current with a Type A connector on one end up to 2.4A". ~ Benson Leung. The evidence of 2.4A charging on compliant cables is out there, I invite you to google it for yourself. Unless you wish to continue to willfully ignore that. Up to you."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please direct yourself to these OP's and read through them so you understand where I am coming from.
1. http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/accessories/usb-type-c-cables-reviewed-google-t3240861
2.http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/accessories/benson-leung-verified-usb-c-cables-t3245685
I have the Aukey 2.4Amp charger. I use the OnePlus cable.
If you use one of the OnePlus cables or adapters you get the 2.4A.
Yea, I know not certified, etc........
tech_head said:
I have the Aukey 2.4Amp charger. I use the OnePlus cable.
If you use one of the OnePlus cables or adapters you get the 2.4A.
Yea, I know not certified, etc........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you can risk damaging your phone charger or cable that way. There are plenty of certified cables out there to use at 1.5A. If you don't like that then get another Type-C charger and c-c cable.
tech_head said:
I have the Aukey 2.4Amp charger. I use the OnePlus cable.
If you use one of the OnePlus cables or adapters you get the 2.4A.
Yea, I know not certified, etc........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I had a couple OnePlus cables early on - weeks before I had the 6P. When I saw that they weren't certified and could do damage, I stopped using them right away. Wasted ~$8 unfortunately.
Pilz said:
Well you can risk damaging your phone charger or cable that way. There are plenty of certified cables out there to use at 1.5A. If you don't like that then get another Type-C wall charger and c-c cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Waiting for (more) legit reviews for quality Type-C chargers. Should be soon.
Pilz said:
Well you can risk damaging your phone charger or cable that way. There are plenty of certified cables out there to use at 1.5A. If you don't like that then get another Type-C charger and c-c cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The charger is rated for 2.4A.
Unless you have a crap charger it's got current limiting circuitry. Not likely ro damage it using it for its rated output.
I doubt I'll burn the cable up.
I have a MSEE so I know how power supplies and cables work.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
tech_head said:
The charger is rated for 2.4A.
Unless you have a crap charger it's got current limiting circuitry. Not likely ro damage it using it for its rated output.
I doubt I'll burn the cable up.
I have a MSEE so I know how power supplies and cables work.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point I have been making is that the resistor in the Op cable is incorrect. This means the phone will attempt to pull 3A even though the charger/cable aren't rated for it. This would clearly cause an issue. I haven't seen any out of spec cable hold a 3A rating with the correct resistors and actually deliver it from a A-C cable. I'm nor saying your wrong I'm simply stating that this has been brought up by many people who are just as qualified. I've taken some EE course myself being an engineering student an all, but this doesn't mean I know enough to make a 100% correct assessment of the cable/charger situation. If it wasn't an issue we would see reports of chargers burning out so there is an issue somewhere
---------- Post added at 04:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 AM ----------
trama09 said:
Yeah, I had a couple OnePlus cables early on - weeks before I had the 6P. When I saw that they weren't certified and could do damage, I stopped using them right away. Wasted ~$8 unfortunately.
Waiting for (more) legit reviews for quality Type-C chargers. Should be soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Choetech was reported to deliver the specified 3A about an hour ago in the accessories subforum. You can check there with the member who has it under the 'type c chargers' OP
There are no many adapters on the market and I couldn't find original huawei adapter. Can I use a regular adapter (samsung 2A for example) with my Nexus?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using xda premium
Yes, but you must use a certified cable. Check Benson Leung's reviews on Amazon to find a good one or use the cable provided in the box.
However you can buy original charger from Google Store or a valid alternative from Amazon like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Charger-Type-..._1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1461623244&sr=1-1
If I understand correctly some articles USB A chargers doesn't support type-c power profile, so the phone will charge at a constant rate without lowering amperage to be gentle with the battery. Furthermore the quick charge is a very useful feature, so I suggest you to buy a compatible charger.
Absolutely. Just be aware that charging of the Nexus 6P/5X is limited to 1.5A over a proper USB Type-A to USB Type-C cable. With a USB Type-C to USB Type-C cable and a Type-C charger, it charges at up to 3A (as it does with the official charger).
So if you're worried about speed of charging, you may want to get yourself a new USB Type-C charger, as a Type-A charger will take about twice as long! (a 3A USB Type-C charger takes about 90 minutes) Personally, I just have a USB Type-A charger by my bed, since it will definitely finish charging while I sleep. Then I keep the original charger in my work bag, in case I need to quickly recharge during the day!
frezd91 said:
If I understand correctly some articles USB A chargers doesn't support type-c power profile, so the phone will charge at a constant rate without lowering amperage to be gentle with the battery. Furthermore the quick charge is a very useful feature, so I suggest you to buy a compatible charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if that's the case, but if it is, I'm not sure it matters. With the USB Type-C charger it's drawing 3A and then lowers as the battery gets full, but I don't know how low it gets. Whereas a USB Type-A charger will be drawing 1.5A maximum, so it may not even need to lower.
Any good USB type A charger that you can recommend?
I Have a good opinion about Samsung adaptive charger that my wife uses with her note edge.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using xda premium
I am partial to Anker brand chargers. I would suggest the PowerPort 2 (as I own a couple), it is capable of charging two devices at up to 2.4A each (while the Nexus 6P can only draw 1.5A, iPads can draw the full 2.4A because of their proprietary tech). But as you can see on the Anker website, they have a ton of different options!
So what do we call the "Quick Charge" that was used for the Nexus 6P? I know it wasn't the same as the quick charge in other phones at the time and it was kind of proprietary when it came out.
The reason I ask is because I need a new charger, but I was curious if there was a wall outlet (with usb ports) that would do the same thing.....Most of the wall outlets say 2.1amp 3.1amps or 4amps, which I assume is divided between the 2 ports if both are in operation. I also have a Nexus 9 so I'd like to be able to charge that.
Any tips or info on what specs I need to look for?
GatorsUF said:
So what do we call the "Quick Charge" that was used for the Nexus 6P? I know it wasn't the same as the quick charge in other phones at the time and it was kind of proprietary when it came out.
The reason I ask is because I need a new charger, but I was curious if there was a wall outlet (with usb ports) that would do the same thing.....Most of the wall outlets say 2.1amp 3.1amps or 4amps, which I assume is divided between the 2 ports if both are in operation. I also have a Nexus 9 so I'd like to be able to charge that.
Any tips or info on what specs I need to look for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can look over in the Accessories sub-forum where there is plenty of charger and cable discussion, but basically the 6P does not support the quick charge standard and ANY charger or cable that uses a USB-A port will NOT rapid charge your phone. You need a charger that either has a USB-C female outlet or integrated (non-removable) USB-C cable that supports the USB-C 5V-3A standard. That is the only way the phone will rapid charge. The N9 does not support the quick charge or turbo charge standards either. Mine came with 1.5A charger. You just need a good 5V charger that puts out at least 1.5A and the tablet will safely limit the input amperage. Since you have two devices to charge, you may consider a charger that has both a USB-C and USB-A port.
I'm aware to take advantage of "DASH" charging (5V 4A), you need a DASH charger with the circuitry, and a DASH capable phone.
1. Can I theoretically use any USB C to USB A cable with my OP5 and DASH charger, or will the phone limit the current? I understand cables may not support 4A of current, but I want to know will the charger and/or phone stop it from pulling so much current? What if I buy a high-quality cable off Monoprice? Or does the cable have to be "DASH Certified"?
2. If I were to plug in another phone into the DASH Charger and official cable, like say a Nexus 5X, how will the Nexus charge? The Nexus usually pulls 3A from a 5V charger. Can the Nexus still pull 3A from the DASH charger, or will it be limited to 1 or 2A?
3. If I were to plug the OP5 into another, non-DASH charger, what's the maximum voltage/amps it can pull? For example, the Nexus 5X charger is rated at 5V 3A. Would the OP5 be able to pull the 3A, or does it need some special circuitry? If so, what would it draw? 2A or less?
Last question: From what I understand if I use a laptop USB C charger, things should work okay- especially if the power brick shows it suppors 5V, 9V, and 12V. I assume the device will tell it to use the 5V line and draw whatever current it can. But what if I have a USB C charger that only says 12V on it? Or say 19V? Am I taking a gamble then? Let's assume this charger that is only rated at a high voltage is not a "shady" charger, and they followed the USB C spec properly. Should I be okay?
Thanks.
Any input or insight on these questions? I've read a lot about DASH charging, but looking for clarity on the above questions.
1. You can use any cable with your dash charger but your phone won't take advantage of the dash charging speeds and instead will charge at around 1.5 to 1.7 amps. So far I haven't seen a single cable no matter the brand working at dash charging speeds so the only cable I've seen working with dash charging are the official 1+ ones.
2. I don't have my Nexus 6p anymore to test this out but theoretically a 3 amp capable phone could draw the necessary amperage from the dash charger since the dash charger is capable of up to 4A. However, I'm pretty sure the phone will charge at the traditional 1 to 2 amps.
3. Amperage, as opposed to Voltage, is drawn by the devices themselves meaning a 5V 3A charger will always push 5 volts and can give up to 3 amps of power to a connected device. The amperage may be below or equal to the capacity of the charger, but never more. Modern batteries and phones have special circuitry embedded in them to protect them from over voltage or excess current and the OP5 is no different.
When connected to a charger, a phone will usually try to identify the charger it's being connected to, if if fails to recognize its capacity, the phone will reduce the amount of current to a safe amount that's below the charger's capacity. Seeing as there are many different chargers, like 2A, 2.4, 3A, 4A, phones usually fall back to a safe charging current that's within the lowest capacity of the most common chargers so even with a 3 amp charger, the OP5 will probably charge at between 1 and 2 amps even if the charger has a 3 amp capacity.
4. Computer USB ports are fine since they have a 5 Volt power bus and any extra current needed is passed through the BMC configuration line and/or the VBUS line only when requested by the connected device. As for using a higher voltage, since voltage is pushed to the device, is not a good idea to use a charger rated with a higher voltage that of the device being charged because you run the risk of overloading the circuits. Phone chargers used in cars usually operate at 12 Volts but they have DC/DC converters and resistors to reduce the voltage to the 5 volts required for phones and tablets. I'm not aware of AC chargers being able to operate with different voltage regulators.
1, No，you can only use official cables, but, I'v tested that oppo vooc cable+micro2typec adapter, can Also dash charge at 5v 4a,Turst me ,the charge chip is in USB C
In case nobody else does, I'll answer question 2 on Friday, when I get to the office. I'll be able to try it with several USB-C capable devices.
Hope I won't forget the dash charger home.
So, as promised...
Today I tried the following devices:
- Nexus 6P, LG 5, OnePlus 5
- Nexus 6 original charger (model SSW-268EU), OnePlus 5 original charger
- LG G5 original cable, OnePlus 5 original cable
I used Ampere to measure the values. All three phones were at around 50% charging state. Temperature of the phones was around 30 °C (+/- 2 °C). Measurement time was around 1 minute.
The results represent the maximum stable values (shown for at least 5-10 seconds). Where there was a variation, it meant that the reading varied slowly between those two. One value means that the reading stayed fixed at that value. Amperage readings are expressed in Amperes. No approximation made and any variation of less than 0.1A was not taken into consideration. (i.e. 1.4A = 1400 ~ 1500 mA).
The tests are not scientifically rigorous and should be taken as such. These results are purely informative.
On the horizontal are the charger&cable combinations. On the vertical,the phones.
Moto & G5
N6P 1.2A
G5 1A
1+5 1.3-1.5A
Moto & 1+5
N6P 1.2A
G5 0.8-1A
1+5 1.3-1.4A
1+5 & 1+5
N6P 1.2A
G5 1A
1+5 3.3-3.4 A
1+5 & G5
N6P 1.1-1.2A
G5 1A
1+5 1.3A
If I forgot any details, don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks for the information! Your tests are exactly what I was looking for.
Dash Charger Stop charging at 83%
Is there anyone facing dash charger stop to charging at 83%? But with another charger can continue charging until 100%....
On the topic, there is a QC to VOOC adapter on TaoPao that someone tested on the OnePlus subreddit and it apparently works. I wonder how exactly it works, though. Apparently it's capable of getting 3A from a standard USB-C and QC 3.0 wall wart.