Database Users

camera image quality

I was curious about the camera image quality of the shift. My pictures always turn out very noisy and washed out. I have read around and found the same complaints but no answers on improvement. My 1.5mp first gen Sony camera takes a better picture. I have the exact same issues on the stock HTC, other sense roms and CM7 nightly. The quality of the image changes very little. I am looking to get a decently clear picture. I do not expect perfection from a cell phone but when I see the 100% full size picture it's really bad even in on a perfect sunny day. I see the improve image patch that I have not downloaded yet. Is there a camera app that will take a better image ? Is the kernel code for the camera a possibly culprit ?
I know there are a lot of programs like camera 360 but that's not exactly want I am looking for.
It's a little disappointing to have a 5mp camera that is not very good. I could deal with a little washed out color but all the pixelation is what I don't like at the full 5mp resolution when on my computer. Thanks for any responses and help in advance
Richard

Improved image patch?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App

Ya, saw it as a suggested thread when I started to type my subject. I have not tried it. I believe it was for the shift
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

i was wrong for motorola phone boo !

Are you sure you set the image quality to 5 mp first? I own a really nice 16 mp canon camera, and the shift with 5 mp takes far better pictures, even in bad lighting.
Then again, I rarely take photos, I take videos then remove the frames I want as photos, ensures I always get the picture I want.

yes, it is set at 5mp. I have tried lower ISO and all the tricks but it isn't still blurry and lots of pixelation.
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

riche1 said:
I was curious about the camera image quality of the shift. My pictures always turn out very noisy and washed out. I have read around and found the same complaints but no answers on improvement. My 1.5mp first gen Sony camera takes a better picture. I have the exact same issues on the stock HTC, other sense roms and CM7 nightly. The quality of the image changes very little. I am looking to get a decently clear picture. I do not expect perfection from a cell phone but when I see the 100% full size picture it's really bad even in on a perfect sunny day. I see the improve image patch that I have not downloaded yet. Is there a camera app that will take a better image ? Is the kernel code for the camera a possibly culprit ?
I know there are a lot of programs like camera 360 but that's not exactly want I am looking for.
It's a little disappointing to have a 5mp camera that is not very good. I could deal with a little washed out color but all the pixelation is what I don't like at the full 5mp resolution when on my computer. Thanks for any responses and help in advance
Richard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well THIS article helped me .

Just a login screen
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

My shift takes pretty good images...in the right conditions.
Low light conditions almost always produce ruinous pictures. The picture displays huge amounts of noise in these cases. Flash is generally not helpful.
Choosing the ISO manually shows improvement, and I personally prefer the Touch focus mode. When shooting outdoors in daylight, I usually get very nice pictures, particularly if I shoot in 5MP and then downsize them.

riche1 said:
Just a login screen
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try the link below instead . Same link only posted different.
http://www.tested.com/news/how-to-take-better-photos-on-your-android-phone/430/

Same thing. Can cut n paste the article? I think I might seen this on androidfourms.com
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

I'll try and get it on here for you later
TEAM MiK
Mik Roms Since 3/13/11

Thanks
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

Here's the article, sorry it took so long
Tested NewsRSS Email Us a Story
How To Take Better Photos on Your Android Phone
The cameras keep getting higher in resolution, but there's more to getting good shots than the hardware.
By Ryan Whitwam
| June 14, 2010
.It's become common for even mid-range Android phones to come with some impressive cameras. A five megapixel sensor is usually present in most smartphones, and that means you can get some pretty reasonable point-and-shoot type images. A phone's camera may not be replacing your dedicated camera anytime soon, but you have to work with what you have. If all you have with you is a phone, you might as well maximize the image quality. Android has made some strides in the image capture department in the 2.1 and upcoming 2.2 updates.
Read on as we tell you how to get the most out of your Android phone's camera. The app that comes with the phone is the one most people will inevitably use, but we'll also tell you which third-party apps can add useful functionality.
Zooming[/B
]Zooming is something we've all become accustomed to on real cameras. A standalone camera most likely has optical zoom. This enlarges an image by using movable lens elements to vary the focal length. With optical zoom, quality is not lost. With the digital zoom used in phones, you are basically cropping out pixels at the edge and blowing up what's left. The result is a poorer quality image. We recommend not zooming in if at all possible, since you can always crop an image after the fact using desktop software. The only time you should use your camera's zoom is when you have to send that photo off on the phone without any post-cropping.
Stock Android phones running on 2.1 and earlier have access to zoom controls in the form of plus/minus buttons on the screen, but it only moves in steps. In 2.2 Google is adding a zoom slider to the on-screen controls. Camera Pro and Camera Zoom FX can add that functionality now for a few bucks. Sense UI phones have long had access to digital zoom in the camera app. The ease of use depends on the underlying Android software version. On Android 2.1 builds of Sense, users are presented with a large friendly scroll wheel to adjust the zoom.
The zoom option is there if you need it, but we suggest only using it when you have to. Even then, zoom only as much as you have to. Each step you zoom means fewer pixels in the final image. The small images sensors on these phones tend to have more noise than standard cameras, and the more you zoom, the more noticeable that will be.
Flash
Next, you need to keep track of your flash settings. Cell phones use LED flashes, which are nice as they don't use very much power. However, they tend to light a subject more harshly than a more natural-looking Xenon flash on a real camera might (this happens even at a distance).
It's always a good idea to turn the flash off when you don't need it. The stock Android camera app has a tendency to overuse the flash when it is set on auto. If you take a picture in medium light and the flash goes off unexpectedly, try it again with the flash off. We often find the resulting image to be preferable to the one with the flash.
Focusing
What's the good of taking a photo if it isn't going to be in focus? Android phones made early use of autofocus cameras and that means better images. Phones with hardware camera buttons sometimes employ a two-step mechanism like a real camera. That means you can depress the button halfway to focus, then recompose and press it the rest of the way to capture the image. This is helpful in that it can allow you to change up the framing without capturing an image if the focus doesn't look right.
On a phone like the Nexus One without a hardware shutter button, you can get similar functionality. When you press the on-screen shutter button, you can hold your finger there to inspect the focus. If you don't like it, just slide your finger off without removing it from the screen. This will let you try again without taking the image. Similarly, if using a trackball/trackpad as the shutter, depress to focus, and if you wish to abandon the image you can tap the screen.
Sense UI phones have a different trick up their sleeve when it comes to focusing. These phones have tap to focus, a feature we originally saw in the iPhone 3GS. You can tap anywhere in the frame to have the camera autofocus for that spot. This is functionality we have not yet been able to replicate on stock Android phones through apps.
Image size
The next thing to be aware of is what type of image quality you need. The default setting on most phones is maximum quality. That's fine if you intend to take important images to keep. But if you're just taking a snapshot to email to a friend, or send in an MMS, you don't need the highest resolution image.
A full resolution image from an 8MP camera like that in the Incredible or EVO 4G could be well over 1MB. If you're on a non-unlimited data plan, sending a large image via MMS may not be a viable option at all. All the stock apps, as well as third-party camera apps will allow you to change the resolution of the image being captured.
This is also a good idea if you need to take several photos in quick succession. Android can be a little slow to write images to the SD card and prepare for the next shot. By reducing the overall image size, you can get more shots in. This functionality is available from the onscreen controls of all the stock apps. Some third party apps hide this functionality in the settings menu.
Fine tuning
These camera phones are getting closer and closer to being the real thing, as evidenced by the plethora of image effects they can use. Stock Android 2.2 (and Sense UI) and higher phones can take advantage of different exposure settings. The exposure is just the amount of light allowed to hit the image sensor. This can be used to compensate for conditions that are too light or dark, bringing out detail. If you need a flash, but it makes the image a little too bright (common with LED flashes), you can try again with a lower exposure. Change the exposure around while composing a shot. The Android camera will change the preview to approximate chosen exposure. Stock Android 2.1 is unable to alter these values, so you'll have to wait for the 2.2 update.
You can also get better color representation by changing the white balance. The auto setting is usually fine, but we've found Android phones can get confused, especially in low light. This often leaves us with warm, almost orange pictures. If your phone is taking images that look to warm or cold, try setting the white balance to the type of light you're shooting under. You have options like incandescent, daylight, fluorescent, and cloudy.
Sense UI phones (even on 2.1) have all these tweaks and more. HTC has added a number of options to their Android interface that doesn't exist for stock phones. There is an option to change metering mode to spot, center, or average. This controls how the phone samples to determine how to expose the shot. This can be helpful if your subject is lighted differently from the rest of the shot. We find this useful for times when we're taking a backlit shot.
Sense UI also builds in ISO settings. ISO is basically how sensitive the image sensor is to light. A higher ISO will allow you to capture motion better, but the image will be grainier. The sensors on phones tend to handle motion pretty poorly, so this is a nice addition on HTC's part. We haven't found any apps that allow stock Android to do any of this either. Camera 360 is a new app with some fun filters, and it offers an ISO option, but we found it did not work on stock Android 2.1 or 2.2. It seems HTC rolled their own code for this.
With a little thought, you can capture completely respectable images with your Android phone. We feel that the most important first step is setting up the shot correctly. You have to evaluate if you need the flash on or not, and if you can avoid zooming. Make sure to examine the preview after your handset focuses before you take the image. In our experience, the stock apps that come with your phone will do nearly everything you need.
Most of the third party apps don't add much functionality beyond some effect filters. The only exception may be timer and timer and burst mode, which you can get from an app like Camera Zoom FX. Sense phones, of course, have this built in. Do you have any camera tips for Android? Any apps you've found that bring something meaningful to the experience?

Thanks this helps
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

Here to help
TEAM MiK
Mik Roms Since 3/13/11

I don't get it, every single picture I take is blurry and very noisy no matter what. You can not tell until you see the full resolution size 2592x1936. I don't need to save all pictures this size but I do a lot of cycling events that I would like to take good pictures at. My hope was to be able to have some nice larger photos to print . It would save me from buying a DC. I have noticed that older pictures before my rom flash are the same way.
The camera on my 3yr old crappy ATT samsung took clear pictures.Some were a little noisy because of lighting but not near as bad as this .
I am starting to wonder if my sensor is defective or my lens is scratched . I would attach a picture but the restrictions here would not allow it. Thanks for the help again. I guess I am SOL

What Rom are you on?

I have another camera related question. I have the CM7 nightly, my camera always freezed when I am waiting for a next shoot for too long, I have to take out the battery to reboot. Can anyone give some advices.

I am using cm7 nightlies. I have tried all roms with the sane results . As for the other question, did u format data,system, cache and dalvik cache( spelling) ?
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

Galaxy Camera review and samples

This is a review I made for the Galaxy Camera after a week's use. It's stunning and completely incomparable to other high end compacts.
A few features that I love: the smart modes (especially rich tones, light trace and burst shot), the slow motion video recording and of course, the Android 4.1.1 which is perfect for such a device.
Here's my Dropbox folder for the camera photo and video samples: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1ocgbtdcra4zm8q/LjNTonk7PR
What you should check out: the difference between normal shots and rich tones (taken at the same time by the camera, the second one is HDR) to see just how much better it is than anything else, the slo-mo shots of seagulls on Dambovita river in Bucharest, the light trace pictures (some are taken without using a tripod) and the macros.
I'm available for any type of question, don't hesitate to ask! Enjoy

I will check out the review later.
But, since you have played with the camera more than me, I have a question:
Is there a way to set manual focus? I wanted to record some equipment at work and as the equipment moves, the camera keeps refocusing. And it often focuses on part of the robot, not the part of the system I want to record. With other cameras you can set the focus and turn off auto focus.
floiancu said:
This is a review I made for the Galaxy Camera after a week's use. It's stunning and completely incomparable to other high end compacts.
A few features that I love: the smart modes (especially rich tones, light trace and burst shot), the slow motion video recording and of course, the Android 4.1.1 which is perfect for such a device.
Here's my Dropbox folder for the camera photo and video samples: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1ocgbtdcra4zm8q/LjNTonk7PR
What you should check out: the difference between normal shots and rich tones (taken at the same time by the camera, the second one is HDR) to see just how much better it is than anything else, the slo-mo shots of seagulls on Dambovita river in Bucharest, the light trace pictures (some are taken without using a tripod) and the macros.
I'm available for any type of question, don't hesitate to ask! Enjoy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

You can always click on the screen on the part of the image you want focused or you can set it in expert mode and change the settings there manually (f, ISO, exposure, shutter speed etc)

I am recording videos, so I don't want to have to keep refocusing.
And the robot is moving while recording.
floiancu said:
You can always click on the screen on the part of the image you want focused or you can set it in expert mode and change the settings there manually (f, ISO, exposure, shutter speed etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

floiancu said:
I'm available for any type of question, don't hesitate to ask! Enjoy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be great to see how it behaves in low-light and with/without using the flash. Samsung cameras are notorious to fail in their operations (focus, video etc) at Low Light levels.

To be fair I haven't taken any indoor low light photos, but you can see the exterior night shots in the shared Dropbox folder. I no longer have the camera, but I can ensure you the flash does a hell of a job and I can't see why you wouldn't use it.

Well... This guy is not very happy with the horrible cracking noise when zooming in/out, and another guy says he can't use the flash as a light while shooting video... So I don't know what to think about this $500+ "thing"...

My zooming was smooth and pretty silent, although you could notice it in the videos. You can't use the flash when filming because it's a discharge flash as opposed to LED flashes on mobile phones.

This is a really good review! I especially like the way you have incorporated the sample clips in the video with good examples also of the different settings.
---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------
floiancu said:
I no longer have the camera, but I can ensure you the flash does a hell of a job and I can't see why you wouldn't use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How come you no longer have the camera??!

apprentice said:
How come you no longer have the camera??!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had it from Samsung for reviewing. You can check my Youtube account and my other posts on XDA to see other devices I've tested for them.

E:V:A said:
Well... This guy is not very happy with the horrible cracking noise when zooming in/out, and another guy says he can't use the flash as a light while shooting video... So I don't know what to think about this $500+ "thing"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... this is a photo camera which is also able to take video clips. If you want a video camera, get one.
If you want a touchscreen and Android on a point & shoot camera this is the one to buy. If you can live without them you can buy much cheaper cameras with the same picture quality.

Before buying the Galaxy Camera or even commenting on it you need to understand its purpose and specs / advantages.
It's NOT a DSLR. It doesn't aim to be a professional camera (although it gives you plenty of manual settings) and it certainly won't take pictures as good. It does offer the smart modes such as rich tones (for which you need filters on a DSLR), macro and light trace (which takes tweaking and setting on a DSLR as opposed to two clicks), 21x zoom without buying extra lenses etc.
It's NOT a regular compact camera. The price tag, build quality, specs and features stress that out pretty well.
The main purpose of the Galaxy Camera is the Android OS which means fast sharing, cloud integration, picture editting on the spot, not to mention all apps available for regular smartphones.
If you judge it on these terms and actually find out it's what you need, it's the perfect camera. Otherwise get a DSLR or a compact camera. Nobody will be upset

floiancu said:
Before buying the Galaxy Camera or even commenting on it you need to understand its purpose and specs / advantages.
It's NOT a DSLR. It doesn't aim to be a professional camera (although it gives you plenty of manual settings) and it certainly won't take pictures as good. It does offer the smart modes such as rich tones (for which you need filters on a DSLR), macro and light trace (which takes tweaking and setting on a DSLR as opposed to two clicks), 21x zoom without buying extra lenses etc.
It's NOT a regular compact camera. The price tag, build quality, specs and features stress that out pretty well.
The main purpose of the Galaxy Camera is the Android OS which means fast sharing, cloud integration, picture editting on the spot, not to mention all apps available for regular smartphones.
If you judge it on these terms and actually find out it's what you need, it's the perfect camera. Otherwise get a DSLR or a compact camera. Nobody will be upset
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Well Said. I love my camera!!

floiancu said:
This is a review I made for the Galaxy Camera after a week's use. It's stunning and completely incomparable to other high end compacts.
A few features that I love: the smart modes (especially rich tones, light trace and burst shot), the slow motion video recording and of course, the Android 4.1.1 which is perfect for such a device.
Here's my Dropbox folder for the camera photo and video samples: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1ocgbtdcra4zm8q/LjNTonk7PR
What you should check out: the difference between normal shots and rich tones (taken at the same time by the camera, the second one is HDR) to see just how much better it is than anything else, the slo-mo shots of seagulls on Dambovita river in Bucharest, the light trace pictures (some are taken without using a tripod) and the macros.
I'm available for any type of question, don't hesitate to ask! Enjoy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice review.
On your drop box photos, one of them shows the white, black and red versions, where is the red version available please for customers to buy. I don't mean demo versions.
Does a 64 GB card work in ex fat or does it need to be in fat32.
Is there a video editor and can it edit the videos shot on the camera itself. Can't seem to find an official case. On amazon uk there is a deal for this camera to get a discount on the short manfrotto tripod. Do you think that tripod would be fine for video as well as photos or would one need a different head for that tripod. Just looking for tips on that count.
On amazon different people say sgs2 or sgs3 battery works. Any idea which one actually works. Guessing its the sgs2.
Does it have USB OTG functions. If so does it need sgs2 or sgs3 USB OTG cable. I know you don't have the camera but since you seem to be a Samsung mobiler I am hoping you know about this.
My Samsung note can shoot videos longer than 30 mins. I read on other posts on XDA that this camera can't record more than 29mins 59secs. Is there a setting to increase this limit?
Did any of the Samsung remote apps work from your phone to control the camera like mobile link or remote view finder etc. Does the DSLR controller or any similar app work with this camera by wifi or USB.

I don't know about the red (I would say pink) version, in Romania none are available yet.
I don't exactly know about the filesystem type required for 64 GB microSDs, but I'm sure it's the same as the SIII, whatever that is.
There is Video Wizard, an app similar to Photo Wizard for editing videos shot on it, it's pretty cool and has more than the functionality you need on a camera, but I would rather use my PC for that so I didn't cover it... Maybe I will do an extra video specifically for that.
The tripod hole is standard, I used mine without any problems.
The battery has the same capacity with the S II, however I don't know if it's exactly the same. I will ask.
Yes, USB OTG is supported.
I never tried to shoot videos longer than a couple of minutes, but being a dedicated camera I'd be surprised if it had a time limit (besides the storage space).
The remote viewfinder option was available in the menu of the camera app, but after an update to the latest firmware it's gone. I haven't tested any remote shooting modes besides voice commands (which works like a charm, but you need silence and you can't see what you're shooting). If there are dedicated remotes for Android (not necessarily made by Samsung), then they should work on the Galaxy Camera without issues.

Thanks. On the engadget post about covers for this they show covers in white black red pink and orange. So i assume those are the proposed colors to be released. But can only find white and black online for now.

RAW Camera for N9005 Lollipop?

Some articles stated that with Android L, devices will receive the capability to save photos in RAW .dng format, providing a far superior photo quality for shutter bugs. I have looked through the stock sammy camera app, but no RAW, and I was unable to find another app on play store to do this. Is there any camera app you guys can suggest that has that format? Please help, I don't mind if I have to pay for the app just give me a link or something, please

posedatull said:
Some articles stated that with Android L, devices will receive the capability to save photos in RAW .dng format, providing a far superior photo quality for shutter bugs. I have looked through the stock sammy camera app, but no RAW, and I was unable to find another app on play store to do this. Is there any camera app you guys can suggest that has that format? Please help, I don't mind if I have to pay for the app just give me a link or something, please
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This might help.
It's a third party app from playstore Photo Mate

amk19 said:
This might help.
It's a third party app from playstore Photo Mate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man, but that app just lets me modify RAW pictures made by other cameras and then copied to the phone. I was looking for what the L Camera is supposed to do for the Nexus 5 and6 devices. Actually take pictures in RAW format with my N9005

posedatull said:
Thanks man, but that app just lets me modify RAW pictures made by other cameras and then copied to the phone. I was looking for what the L Camera is supposed to do for the Nexus 5 and6 devices. Actually take pictures in RAW format with my N9005
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this Camera FV-5

amk19 said:
Try this Camera FV-5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bought it, tried, said our device doesn't support raw. Asked for refund

posedatull said:
Bought it, tried, said our device doesn't support raw. Asked for refund
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh. Okay. Sorry buddy.

RAW format isn't going to do much about the quality of the photographs on a mobile phone with a sensor this small.
The sensors in smartphones cameras are the lowest possible tier. Using a digital negative isn't going to improve that.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2

ShadowLea said:
RAW format isn't going to do much about the quality of the photographs on a mobile phone with a sensor this small.
The sensors in smartphones cameras are the lowest possible tier. Using a digital negative isn't going to improve that.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is simply not true. The ability to capture RAW images has immensely improved camera performance on other devices.

troy2062 said:
That is simply not true. The ability to capture RAW images has immensely improved camera performance on other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sincerely hope you're joking.
Do you actually know, without looking it up first, what the RAW format is for?
It is a digital negative. It contains all the data the sensor is able to capture.
The resulting JPG's quality is entirely determined by the compression format used by the camera app.
Shooting in RAW allows you more freedom to tweak the image before turning it into a JPG. It does NOT improve the camera performance. It does not increase the sharpness, decrease the noise and reduce blurring.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2

troy2062 said:
That is simply not true. The ability to capture RAW images has immensely improved camera performance on other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but this is just wrong.
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

ShadowLea said:
I sincerely hope you're joking.
Do you actually know, without looking it up first, what the RAW format is for?
It is a digital negative. It contains all the data the sensor is able to capture.
The resulting JPG's quality is entirely determined by the compression format used by the camera app.
Shooting in RAW allows you more freedom to tweak the image before turning it into a JPG. It does NOT improve the camera performance. It does not increase the sharpness, decrease the noise and reduce blurring.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a photography enthusiast and I do not appreciate your condescending tone. The XDA community at large has become far too hostile for my liking in recent years.
For all practical purposes, it does improve camera performance. When capturing in RAW using the camera2 API, you gain full manual control over shutter speed and ISO, as well as the ability to bypass the camera module's automated image processing. The resulting DNG is completely free of automated correction and you will have significantly more dynamic range to work with.
Despite the small sensor size of smartphone cameras, shooting RAW still yields significant benefits.

troy2062 said:
The XDA community at large has become far too hostile for my liking in recent years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish I could agree with you on this more. XDA is floating with kids nowadays, some of them haven't even hit puberty yet

troy2062 said:
I am a photography enthusiast and I do not appreciate your condescending tone. The XDA community at large has become far too hostile for my liking in recent years.
For all practical purposes, it does improve camera performance. When capturing in RAW using the camera2 API, you gain full manual control over shutter speed and ISO, as well as the ability to bypass the camera module's automated image processing. The resulting DNG is completely free of automated correction and you will have significantly more dynamic range to work with.
Despite the small sensor size of smartphone cameras, shooting RAW still yields significant benefits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you're not another one of those people who just heard a word used on a site and thinks they know everything. There are too many of those around, and they are the reason so many of the senior members are hostile towards others.
Particularly where the topic concerns photography. Too many bloody Instagrammers who think they're professionals. The most hilarious ones are the ones who don't even own a DSLR, but think their phone's camera can do the same thing. Or those idiots who complain about the camera quality, and leave the settings on auto.
Most apps have ISO control, even the stock camera.
Isn't that what I just said? "The resulting DNG is completely free of automated correction and you will have significantly more dynamic range to work with." is the exact same thing as "Shooting in RAW allows you more freedom to tweak the image before turning it into a JPG."
RAW mode only improves the resulting JPG. It can't improve the basic image. The lightbleed, stained glass details and oilpainting effect is a result of the sensorsize, not the JPG compression. The compression amplifies the problem, but it doesn't cause it.
And if an image is valuable enough to spend good time on taking the perfect shot, then taking it with a phone is a waste. If you're going to use BULB mode, you'll need a stationary. If you're going to drag the stationary along, might as well bring your DSLR and do it properly.
Was that condescending? I don't know, social cues aren't my area of expertise. But if you thought it was, you should've seen our Photo-Storytelling professor back at uni. That man made everyone afraid to even speak if there was a chance that your answer wasn't 100% accurate. Best class ever.
devilsdouble said:
Wish I could agree with you on this more. XDA is floating with kids nowadays, some of them haven't even hit puberty yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen 9 year olds act like they know everything and tell the professional developers how they should do their job.
I've seen a 15 year old attempt to tell Chainfire how Root works. *snicker*. Too bad that thread was deleted, it was pure comedy gold. :laugh:
The major problem is that many of the offended users treat XDA as a helpdesk. It's not. It's a developers website. People have a responsibility to Google before they come here to ask their questions. If they neglect that responsiblity, the community doesn't take it very well. It's like going onto a website for car modders and asking how to put gas in a car at a station.

I don't think Samsung did rewrite the Camera HAL and therefore no complete camera2 api support which is a very bad thing.
We don't get a lot of the goodies especially the performance improvement.
Currently there's a 1 second shutter lag on 3rd party apps comparing to stock Samsung camera.

ShadowLea said:
RAW format isn't going to do much about the quality of the photographs on a mobile phone with a sensor this small.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RAW format will allow you to develop better quality images than out-of-camera JPEGs.
In-phone postprocessing is limited by its no-so-great software and also processing power (it needs to be able to process a lot of pictures quickly). If you just take RAW files from the phone and run it through dedicated software (Lightroom, Aftershot Pro, Noise Ninja), I bet you'd get better images than what you OOC even without fine-tuning anything.
But the more importantly, it allows you to fine-tune a lot of stuff - fix white balance, exposition, find suitable contrast - besides creative control you will often get significantly better quality images.
ShadowLea said:
The sensors in smartphones cameras are the lowest possible tier. Using a digital negative isn't going to improve that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to take pictures with way worse cameras (like Canon A410) than camera on Note 3 and RAW often made a big difference. RAW is actually more useful on poor sensors (and/or poor post processors) where you need to squeeze the maximum from the picture. On the otherhand, e.g. my Fuji X100 has good enough (APS-C) sensor and very good JPEG engine that I very rarely feel the need to shoot RAW.

Personally I always shot in RAW on a dlsr as I always tweak my photos, the freedom to change tweak exposure/white balance has become a necessity. I can't stand processed jpegs anymore, especially when I don't know what the processing is really doing but I know it ain't doing a good job.
I got the Note 3 a few weeks back and have been wondering about RAW capability as it's something that it's important to me and others who want the extended freedom with their pictures. I have not yet jumped into Lollipop to test it out, but is the Camera2 API included in the lollipop roms available now? Is that API a lollipop standard? If so there's no reason our device shouldn't be able to shoot in RAW.

eddiee said:
RAW format will allow you to develop better quality images than out-of-camera JPEGs.
In-phone postprocessing is limited by its no-so-great software and also processing power (it needs to be able to process a lot of pictures quickly). If you just take RAW files from the phone and run it through dedicated software (Lightroom, Aftershot Pro, Noise Ninja), I bet you'd get better images than what you OOC even without fine-tuning anything.
But the more importantly, it allows you to fine-tune a lot of stuff - fix white balance, exposition, find suitable contrast - besides creative control you will often get significantly better quality images.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know how RAW works. I'm a professional photographer, I never use anything other than RAW. Which has some downsides.. I'm seriously running out of storage space on my harddrives
You're forgetting one very important factor. Given the size of RAW files, you can take about 40 pictures before you run out of space on your device, less if you have a decent amount of apps. L fixes the tight security that prevented apps to write to the SD in 4.4, but even then the space limitations are.. obnoxious. 13MP should translate to about 20-25MB per picture. Sure there are 128GB MicroSD cards, but unless you keep that clear of any other data (I have the entire LOTR Extended trilogy on there, for example.) it's still going to be a limitation. The 128GB cards are also quite pricey. I use 128GB SDcards in my camera, and on an average day I have to switch around at least once because it's full. And that's empty cards. Phone cards have data on them.
I used to take pictures with way worse cameras (like Canon A410) than camera on Note 3 and RAW often made a big difference. RAW is actually more useful on poor sensors (and/or poor post processors) where you need to squeeze the maximum from the picture. On the otherhand, e.g. my Fuji X100 has good enough (APS-C) sensor and very good JPEG engine that I very rarely feel the need to shoot RAW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Evidently, as the A410 had dedicated camera hardware, as opposed to it just being an addition designed for random facebook pictures. And the JPEG conversion in 2005 was severely underdeveloped compared to modern day, and the hardware allows significantly more calculations. Even then the sensors in a modern-day cheap Compact camera are better than the ones in a smartphone, simply because those in smartphones are cut from the leftovers of the sensor plate.
Ah, a Fuji X100? It's one of the classic-style shell camera's, if I recall correctly. I played around with one a while ago, one of my colleagues is a hipster, so yea, he has one. :silly:
Funny little thing, pretty decent quality for something so small. It's not a system camera, though, so his arguments to convince me to get one were completely wasted. I'm a macro, landscape and architecture photographer; I need my different lenses.
My Canon EOS 70D can shoot in JPEG at ISO 6400 without noise. Doesn't mean I ever take it off the RAW+JPG setting. Even then I always edit my pictures in CameraRaw. JPG is good enough for preview, but I require PNG and TIFF for high-quality print. And shooting Macro and Landscape in JPG is simply a wasted effort. Those always require editing. So does architecture, because I'm too lazy to drag a technical camera along, so I have to do a lot of perspective correction. RAW is better suited for that.
There is one thing on which I do see the point of shooting in RAW with a smartphone. The lens is so utterly rubbish that the chromatic aberration is simply painful. Not to mention the overly obvious light flares if you try to shoot anything near a lightsource or white. It won't solve it, but at least you can tone it down a bit.
Still, I'd rather use my DSLR for those photographs. It also looks an awful lot less ridiculous than standing around with a smartphone taking pictures.

ShadowLea said:
You're forgetting one very important factor. Given the size of RAW files, you can take about 40 pictures before you run out of space on your device, less if you have a decent amount of apps. L fixes the tight security that prevented apps to write to the SD in 4.4, but even then the space limitations are.. obnoxious. 13MP should translate to about 20-25MB per picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
20-25 MB per RAW picture means 40-50 pictures per GB. Currently I have 9 GBs free on the phone and 21 GB on the card. That translates to about 1200-1500 pictures. That sounds quite OK.
Still, I don't plan to shoot exclusively RAW - there's no point in fiddling with RAW for simple point&shoot pictures. Personally I'd use RAW only when it's necessary - in challenging lighting conditions, important shots etc.
Storage won't be a problem for me.
ShadowLea said:
Evidently, as the A410 had dedicated camera hardware, as opposed to it just being an addition designed for random facebook pictures. And the JPEG conversion in 2005 was severely underdeveloped compared to modern day, and the hardware allows significantly more calculations. Even then the sensors in a modern-day cheap Compact camera are better than the ones in a smartphone, simply because those in smartphones are cut from the leftovers of the sensor plate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JPEG conversion is bad in a lot of cameras even today (although Samsung's JPEG engine seems to be one of the better ones, in smartphones). The point was that RAW is useful both for good and bad cameras (sensors).
ShadowLea said:
Still, I'd rather use my DSLR for those photographs. It also looks an awful lot less ridiculous than standing around with a smartphone taking pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best camera is the one you have with you. DSLR is too big for me to drag around. That's why I bought Fuji - it's quite small and light while having very good IQ. Actually even the Fuji is too big and heavy (especially for the neck) on the longer hikes (30km) - sometimes I just leave it at home and go just with the phone. I eagerly await phone camera improvements (including RAW support) so I can leave my larger cameras at home.

eddiee said:
20-25 MB per RAW picture means 40-50 pictures per GB. Currently I have 9 GBs free on the phone and 21 GB on the card. That translates to about 1200-1500 pictures. That sounds quite OK.
Still, I don't plan to shoot exclusively RAW - there's no point in fiddling with RAW for simple point&shoot pictures. Personally I'd use RAW only when it's necessary - in challenging lighting conditions, important shots etc.
Storage won't be a problem for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've got a lot more free space than me. I've got 1GB on the phone left, and 2GB on my MicroSD (Out of 128, yea... The disadvantage of 1080p series. >.<)
Oh I've seen people do it; shoot in RAW then put it on Instagram. :laugh:
JPEG conversion is bad in a lot of cameras even today (although Samsung's JPEG engine seems to be one of the better ones, in smartphones). The point was that RAW is useful both for good and bad cameras (sensors).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yes. But it still can't fix the problems caused by the bad sensor. It can decrease them because JPG conversion aplifies them, but it can't fix them. RAW can't fix hardware faults. (Oh if only it could..)
Best camera is the one you have with you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I both agree and disagree. Any camera is better than no camera, true.
But I had an EOS 500D before this, and it simply made bad pictures. For memories and snapshots the quality matters little (And it may even add to the photo), but it had a similar problem as the smartphones: it was a low-tier model and had a cheap sensor. All the editing in RAW couldn't fix the data that simply wasn't collected, and it can't add detail that isn't there. The same issue applies to smartphones.
(And before anyone tries to, don't even think of throwing out "The quality of the photograph is determined by the photographer". I hate that saying, and it's only ever said by those who can't afford a decent camera. That saying applies to the quality of the content, not the image quality. Someone usually ends up using that argument in any photography discussion, so consider this a pre-emptive strike.)
DSLR is too big for me to drag around. That's why I bought Fuji - it's quite small and light while having very good IQ. Actually even the Fuji is too big and heavy (especially for the neck) on the longer hikes (30km) - sometimes I just leave it at home and go just with the phone. I eagerly await phone camera improvements (including RAW support) so I can leave my larger cameras at home.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can get a bit heavy, yes. It's why I always use a backpack. True, it's still about 30-40 kilos, but as a backpack that's easily manageable. I've tried taking photo's with my phone on my trips, but I always end up wanting my macro, telezoom or wideangle lens. But I'm the weird one who stands around taking photographs of a floral arrangement while everyone else is photographing the Colosseum, and who takes a macro photograph of the leg of the Eiffel Tower, but not the tower itself. So perhaps I'm a bad example of the average photographer. :laugh: :silly:

But I had an EOS 500D before this, and it simply made bad pictures. For memories and snapshots the quality matters little (And it may even add to the photo), but it had a similar problem as the smartphones: it was a low-tier model and had a cheap sensor. All the editing in RAW couldn't fix the data that simply wasn't collected, and it can't add detail that isn't there. The same issue applies to smartphones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When shooting raw, images should be taken with post processing in mind and exposures set to take the most amount of the important data whatever it may be. Thus a picture looking good or bad in camera is totally irrelevant. The 500D takes good pictures, it's no 5D mk3 but good enough for semi-pro depending on what kind of stuff is being shot with it. A good lens on a lowish tier camera goes a long way, much more so than a good sensor with a mediocre lens.

Sony wants to know if you want RAW mode

http://www.xperiablog.net/2015/04/2...capture-in-future-if-there-is-popular-demand/

It's a marketing trick of course, don't worry they'll implement it in future updates

this is the "official" link where you can post your raw request - http://talk.sonymobile.com/t5/Software-Updates/Camera2-API/td-p/974742
suggestion - read 5th post - they want people to ask for raw support and maybe will implement it

I couldn't care less about RAW mode. What is really usefull is manual shutter speed! Good news is, that incorporating RAW mode will probably also mean manual control of shutter speed. So I'm supporting this case

Said it on Reddit and will say here. Sod RAW, give us Camera 2 API so third party apps with decent processing algorithm can access the camera directly.

Z4 should've been the first Android phone with manual shutter control and RAW output.
Why is LG beating Sony in the camera department? That's embarrassing.

Manufacturers as HTC and Xiaomi bring some time ago Full Manual controls... So there wasn't reason to don't bring Manual Controls in previous Android versions

I don't really need it, but if most people want it I think they should definitely add it.

Until people have the need to replace prosumer or pro cameras, adding raw into an everyday consumer device (albeit a high-end flagship phone) will just add additional headaches all-around(support calls/emails etc), and not benefit bottom-line (sales). These all-encompassing gaming/social/internet/communication/camera devices are difficult to target a specific audience because they cover such a wide range of users and their different needs and wants.
Everyone's attitude here is they're not happy with the SOC jpegs and expecting RAW will allow them to "do it better" themselves. That's an issue with the processing(that's speculation until raw files can be peeped). This is what Sony needs to fix, not just throwing RAW at us. Most people don't want to process raw files from WB to post-resize sharpening of what they ate just so they can share it on IG. RAW is not something anybody will want to upload without PP. It isn't going to magically make a ****ty camera better. If anything it'll only reveal how good or bad a camera truly is.
So why would Sony obviously, have-to, necessarily, provide this feature in any of their phones? Just because walkmans have a long history, doesn't mean they are going to give you wolfson dacs into the xperia and market it to people who don't care.
That being said. I'd be happy to have the option to take pictures in raw format, but foresee myself barely using it. If I cared enough to take higher quality pictures, I would put in the effort to bring out my actual full frame camera and lens and shoot raw all day long with high quality 60fps capture as well. I'm also going to play with the g4 in the store and check out raw uploads on the net to see what it can do, but not because I am looking to replace an actual camera with it. If you offer up pro features and market it as such - then you better beat other pro options in implementation and results, otherwise I'm not going to take it seriously and mark it as just another half-assed novelty feature and continue to use an actual camera that implements it well.
yeah yeah tl;dr

dobygot said:
Until people have the need to replace prosumer or pro cameras, adding raw into an everyday consumer device (albeit a high-end flagship phone) will just add additional headaches all-around(support calls/emails etc), and not benefit bottom-line (sales). These all-encompassing gaming/social/internet/communication/camera devices are difficult to target a specific audience because they cover such a wide range of users and their different needs and wants.
Everyone's attitude here is they're not happy with the SOC jpegs and expecting RAW will allow them to "do it better" themselves. That's an issue with the processing(that's speculation until raw files can be peeped). This is what Sony needs to fix, not just throwing RAW at us. Most people don't want to process raw files from WB to post-resize sharpening of what they ate just so they can share it on IG. RAW is not something anybody will want to upload without PP. It isn't going to magically make a ****ty camera better. If anything it'll only reveal how good or bad a camera truly is.
So why would Sony obviously, have-to, necessarily, provide this feature in any of their phones? Just because walkmans have a long history, doesn't mean they are going to give you wolfson dacs into the xperia and market it to people who don't care.
That being said. I'd be happy to have the option to take pictures in raw format, but foresee myself barely using it. If I cared enough to take higher quality pictures, I would put in the effort to bring out my actual full frame camera and lens and shoot raw all day long with high quality 60fps capture as well. I'm also going to play with the g4 in the store and check out raw uploads on the net to see what it can do, but not because I am looking to replace an actual camera with it. If you offer up pro features and market it as such - then you better beat other pro options in implementation and results, otherwise I'm not going to take it seriously and mark it as just another half-assed novelty feature and continue to use an actual camera that implements it well.
yeah yeah tl;dr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some people have a z3 and a proper camera but want the option to use raw on the their phone for when they don't have their proper camera with them. Or they might not have a proper camera but want to get into photography; using their phone is a cheaper alternative, and raw (in addition to the other things api2 provides) helps here. It's not something I imagine too many people will use but having the option is better than not having the option; no-one's suggesting that jpg will go away and everyone will have to convert their raw files after every shoot.

Webern said:
Some people have a z3 and a proper camera but want the option to use raw on the their phone for when they don't have their proper camera with them. Or they might not have a proper camera but want to get into photography; using their phone is a cheaper alternative, and raw (in addition to the other things api2 provides) helps here. It's not something I imagine too many people will use but having the option is better than not having the option; no-one's suggesting that jpg will go away and everyone will have to convert their raw files after every shoot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be nice if they allowed saving both JPG and RAW like most DSLRs (even if it is slower) as then we would have a JPG to post on social media straight away and a RAW to enhance later if we wanted to :good:

^ this !

Webern said:
Some people have a z3 and a proper camera but want the option to use raw on the their phone for when they don't have their proper camera with them. Or they might not have a proper camera but want to get into photography; using their phone is a cheaper alternative, and raw (in addition to the other things api2 provides) helps here. It's not something I imagine too many people will use but having the option is better than not having the option; no-one's suggesting that jpg will go away and everyone will have to convert their raw files after every shoot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that having the option is better than not having it. My post wasn't meant to argue the uses of RAW, but how users' needs affect mfger's decisions on spending money, because ultimately all they care about is how it'll affect the bottom line today or in the future. Sony attempting to capture this uber niche group for the z3 won't help them. Future models? Maybe, but it seems unlikely if they need to consider it eating into cybershot sales (Some yet to be released cybershots don't even shoot in RAW). Also, how far would they have to take the updates once they enable RAW to "us" ? Aperture priority, shutter priority, exposure locking, bracketing, etc.
The whole Manual control and raw output angle may or may not work for LG. But it makes sense for them to try it... because they really don't have anything else going for them against Samsung.

Z3 camera has issues
The Z3 camera has well known issues (like many cell phone cameras have).... purple blobs under demanding light conditions and some more
If you know how to handle RAW files then there's a better chance to correct that
but I will also need a specific RAW codec for the Z3 otherwise the most RAW converters won't work or will produce false colours.

What the user really want is a Camera with proper Manual controls and not that messed-up thing from Sony in the current camera ui

Z3 camera blows chunks. Really, there isn't much more to say about it. Soft, mushy, noisy. Exposure often off. Just not a camera experience fitting a top end phone from the worlds leading digital photography OEM.
Ideally Sony would improve the SOC JPGs. If they where industry leading standard then there wouldn't be so much demand for RAW.
In the likely scenario were Sony engineers are unable (or unwilling/not backed by the bean counters) to deliver improved JPEG output, RAW is a decent workaround.
But as mentioned, unless the likes of Adobe can support the RAW files then they won't be very useful. Anyone who knows what to do with a RAW will want to fit it onto their already established work flow. If Sony can just output DNG's (DNG+JPEG) that would be ok.
Sony are bleeding market share with xperias. They need to really deliver some great updates to their existing phones and release some exceptional new hardware to regain some favour from consumers. Support is the key, if they can deliver top notch updates that markedly improve end user experience then people will buy their hardware, knowing they will be supported by the manufacturer for the life of the product. It's not just about updating the ROM to the latest android release, its about enhancing the experience, listening to consumers concerns and demands and responding quickly and effectively.

ozzy lion said:
But as mentioned, unless the likes of Adobe can support the RAW files then they won't be very useful. Anyone who knows what to do with a RAW will want to fit it onto their already established work flow. If Sony can just output DNG's (DNG+JPEG) that would be ok.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The API requires that DNG is output. So as long as Sony adheres to the Camera2 API that is what we will get!
In my opinion, Sony does not have to do anything to their camera software. Just implement the Camera2 API and there are already other camera apps out there which utilize the new features.

wasnt there articles published recently stating that Samsung devices were going to receive RAW mode too? and HTC joining in as well? forgot where the articles went, but if true, i see no reason why Sony should hold back when everyone else is doing it.
Sony needs to offer something that the competitors/market doesnt have, or at least be the first to do so... not following others >.>

abhinav.tella said:
I don't really need it, but if most people want it I think they should definitely add it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need it without knowing you need it; developers who work on camera-related apps such as Open Camera currently get jpegs from the camera, so if they want to perform further processing such as auto-rotating the photo, superimposing date/time etc it's another generational loss of quality. If they could instead get a raw file they could do all that losslessly and then offer the user of the usual (but better quality) jpeg or raw.

LitoNi said:
wasnt there articles published recently stating that Samsung devices were going to receive RAW mode too? and HTC joining in as well? forgot where the articles went, but if true, i see no reason why Sony should hold back when everyone else is doing it.
Sony needs to offer something that the competitors/market doesnt have, or at least be the first to do so... not following others >.>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did that include existing devices, or future devices?
I don't know if I've seen any device (other than possibly Nexus devices) that had RAW capability retrofitted after-the-fact - even devices that had Qualcomm's proprietary RAW support. (Which isn't compatible with the new camera API RAW stuff - just like Qualcomm's multiSIM stuff was completely incompatible with the MTK-based stuff Google put into 5.x)

Does V20 has portrait mode like iPhone in Camera?

I m willing to buy this phone for HiRes music and it is cheaper now. But I want to know if this thing has portrait mode or not.
Portrait Mode: It is similar to bouque effect present in dslr or in simple words background becomes blur so the foreground stands out clearer.

experot said:
I m willing to buy this phone for HiRes music and it is cheaper now. But I want to know if this thing has portrait mode or not.
Portrait Mode: It is similar to bouque effect present in dslr or in simple words background becomes blur so the foreground stands out clearer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well in a sense with manual mode yeah because you can select what you want in focus

No, the V20 does not have that. The V20 is quite the exact opposite of the iPhone. The iPhone is for people who can't or won't figure things out for themselves. The V20 is for those who know and want to do things themselves and have more control. You can use the Google Camera app and use its blur mode if you want though.

CHH2 said:
No, the V20 does not have that. The V20 is quite the exact opposite of the iPhone. The iPhone is for people who can't or won't figure things out for themselves. The V20 is for those who know and want to do things themselves and have more control. You can use the Google Camera app and use its blur mode if you want though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think google camera app uses dual camera setup,that can be intalled to any phone and doesn't provide good bg blur effect.
Still thanks for reply.
Tell me if there is any other option in Manual mode etc

There are at least 5 camera apps I can think of that allows this... However, I am not going to publicly promote a product or service that if obtained through proper stores,costs money. So... Sorry about that. I searched for aDSLR solution for some time. The main issue I was coming across was most replacement alps made it look like someone ate some potato chips, then touched all over the camera(s) lens(es) with said hands without properly wiping them all over their roommates couch.
Come to think of it.... I was eating some hamburger flavored chips.......hmmm

experot said:
I don't think google camera app uses dual camera setup,that can be intalled to any phone and doesn't provide good bg blur effect.
Still thanks for reply.
Tell me if there is any other option in Manual mode etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both the Google camera app and the iPhone are going to do the same thing, which is use software trickery to blur the background by using information based on changes of depth. iPhone does this using two cameras and the Google app uses one and just has you "pan" the camera up and does some nifty calculations. As for installing it on any phone, you're in the V20 section asking about what to use on a V20. Someone ported it to the V20 and I've been using it for when I want auto photos since then just as well as I would on my Nexus devices. So I don't understand your point. The Google app actually does a decent job for software based trickery.
As for any other options in manual mode, that's not the point of manual mode. Manual mode is for those who want full control over their images. This means you are in charge of pre and post production. Want a specific type of light? Then find and/or set up that type of light. Want background blur? You will have to know what it takes to get blur out of this sensor size and be able to set that situation up. Like I said before, the V20 is not a dummy mode phone.
Ultimately though, if you want to get bokeh all the time all day long, you need at least a full frame DSLR and a very large aperture lens attached to it. Even dedicated cameras with fast lenses with sensors larger than anything in a phone run into issues creating bokeh in certain situations. Or, expand your photography horizons. If all you care about is bokeh, you need to be a bit more creative.
If you still aren't happy with any of the above, just get an iPhone. I hear they're great for when you don't want to have to do any thinking at all.