Related
Hello gents,
before you dismiss yet another S4 WiFi issue related post, keep in mind I am a Network Administrator for a living. What I do know well is wireless, what I don't is why my and many other's S4s are plagued with the WiFi issue.
If one is to search Galaxy S4 wifi problems, you will find a whack load of results with basic answers that don't resolve the issue. I am one of the lucky owners of a I337m Galaxy S4 that is a perfect phone, except the WiFi is absolute wonkers. My S4 is extremely inconsistent with being able to connect to 2.4Ghz networks, though 5Ghz is fine. I have attached a gif as an example of what occurs, though the signal is strong it refuses to connect instantly or gives "authentication error". There are good days, there are bad, but mostly bad.
I even gone as far as taking the phone apart and replacing the WiFi antenna with an external modified version, trust me it is NOT an antenna issue. I came across a youtube video of a fella with an i9505 who claimed to be able to fix the wifi issue by changing the baseband. This I would love to try though as far as I know there is only one baseband for the Canadian S4 if I read the forum posts correctly. At&t has a few which I wouldn't mind trying, but is it possible to flash the baseband from Bell to At&t (i337m to i337)? Would that even affect the Wireless functionality in the phone, or is it purely for the cellular network?
Since it's 2015, I was just wondering: Does this Nexus FINALLY support 5GHz wi-fi DFS channels?
For anybody who might be confused: the question means whether it supports more than the four basic 5GHz channels. If yes, then: me = :victory:
Thanks! :highfive:
(hope smbd. knows the answer to this as it hasn't been asked yet... might need to bump this up to the top a couple of times otherwise)
has anybody been able to test this yet?
Haggster66 said:
has anybody been able to test this yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, no one has it yet.
According to iFixit, the Nexus 6P contains the broadcom BCM4358 chip which does support up to 80mhz channelization according to the info at the links below.
https://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=s868805
http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/8767095-bcm4358-broadcom-combo-chip.html
I am currently testing a new wireless deployment and the Nexus 6P is one of my client test devices. I will try to report back once testing is complete.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but any news on this?
My 6P connected to DFS channels fine.
wroking
I just tested and it's working fine. NEXUS 6P 6.0 android
Haggster66 said:
Since it's 2015, I was just wondering: Does this Nexus FINALLY support 5GHz wi-fi DFS channels?
For anybody who might be confused: the question means whether it supports more than the four basic 5GHz channels. If yes, then: me = :victory:
Thanks! :highfive:
(hope smbd. knows the answer to this as it hasn't been asked yet... might need to bump this up to the top a couple of times otherwise)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After upgrading to 7.0 or above. Nexus 6P has major issues with respect to WiFi services:
1) Intermittent connect drop
2) Unable to find/connect 5Ghz band services on the mobile device.
As per multiple fourms if someone says, WiFi is working in safe mode or reconnect/re-configure the WiFi services. All those bunch, do not have a solution to this issue.
I neither wish to step on to some other device/make, nor I think this issue could not get fixed. This is an amazing phone with a black spot (WiFi bug) on it. I would really appreciate, if google overcome this issue so that we can enjoy using the device and Google services.
Anyone having issues connecting to wi-fi networks on channels 12/13? On my device I'm unable to see SSIDs in these channels most of the time. Sometimes I can see networks in channel 13.
Am engaging with Google tech support, so will keep you posted.
What country are you in?
UK
I seem to be the only person on my street that knows channel 13 exists. No issues for me connecting. Although I run my phone to my 5Ghz connection normally, I can connect to my 2.4Ghz if needs be.
TheReverend210 said:
I seem to be the only person on my street that knows channel 13 exists. No issues for me connecting. Although I run my phone to my 5Ghz connection normally, I can connect to my 2.4Ghz if needs be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good good.
I'm wondering whether it's down to me not activating the SIM in the phone as yet? Like a double check that the phone should be allowed to use 12&13 (rather than just selecting English UK as the language).
TheReverend210 said:
I seem to be the only person on my street that knows channel 13 exists. No issues for me connecting. Although I run my phone to my 5Ghz connection normally, I can connect to my 2.4Ghz if needs be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's really no difference in using that over channel 11 in your case with the co-channel interference.
YES!
It's not just me then. Home router (2.4Ghz) is on ch.13 and when i return home the device will not auto-connect until i toggle wifi off and back on again. Wifi works fine until i leave again. connects fine to my wifi network at work but that is different channel and on 5Ghz too.
RMA'd my device and the new one was bad. Wouldn't see my network at all, but wouldn't register my Sim card either so I have just returned this replacement device. Replacement number 2 is on the way.
I switched to ch.12 and the same thing happens at home. Didn't try any other channels as they are too noisy. So I wonder if this is a software issue? I'm in the UK and the router is made by technicolor for Plusnet.
j3di said:
YES!
It's not just me then. Home router (2.4Ghz) is on ch.13 and when i return home the device will not auto-connect until i toggle wifi off and back on again. Wifi works fine until i leave again. connects fine to my wifi network at work but that is different channel and on 5Ghz too.
RMA'd my device and the new one was bad. Wouldn't see my network at all, but wouldn't register my Sim card either so I have just returned this replacement device. Replacement number 2 is on the way.
I switched to ch.12 and the same thing happens at home. Didn't try any other channels as they are too noisy. So I wonder if this is a software issue? I'm in the UK and the router is made by technicolor for Plusnet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If channel 11 is noisy, then so is 12 and 13.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
TheReverend210 said:
I seem to be the only person on my street that knows channel 13 exists. No issues for me connecting. Although I run my phone to my 5Ghz connection normally, I can connect to my 2.4Ghz if needs be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might want to change to channel 11. With the current setup you are not only killing your own data rates, but also the rates of everyone on channel 11. These channels are not supposed to overlap, because that creates interference. Switch to channel 11.
This is my WiFi situation. I'm normally on CH.13, but switched to 12 as a test.
My 2nd unit arrived last week, and unfortunately it's the same issue as before - no channels 12 or 13, not even visible. I'll be back in touch with Google today.
Hopefully this is a software issue rather than Google/Huawei spec'ing a duff wifi chipset.
Google spoken to and basically it's a case of tough-titty - some devices aren't going to work with channels 12 & 13.
For anyone else reading this, I had this problem and 'solved' it.
If you find that you can't see channels 12 and 13 then it's almost definitely caused by the Wifi country code restrictions.
I got my Nexus 6P here in Korea and initially tried it out with no sim card. Even though the location is set in settings, without a sim card it doesn't get the wifi country code set, and I couldn't see those channels. As soon as I inserted a Korean sim card, I was able to see them.
If you are in the UK or elsewhere, using a local sim card and you can't see those channels then chances are either your country doesn't allow it or the code is already set. Either way, your options are just accept it or try one of the 'not officially supported' ways to getting around it. That's likely why Google said you were out of luck. It's possible but involves rooting etc. I think. Just search for 'change wifi country code android'. Good luck.
throwawaynexus said:
For anyone else reading this, I had this problem and 'solved' it.
If you find that you can't see channels 12 and 13 then it's almost definitely caused by the Wifi country code restrictions.
I got my Nexus 6P here in Korea and initially tried it out with no sim card. Even though the location is set in settings, without a sim card it doesn't get the wifi country code set, and I couldn't see those channels. As soon as I inserted a Korean sim card, I was able to see them.
If you are in the UK or elsewhere, using a local sim card and you can't see those channels then chances are either your country doesn't allow it or the code is already set. Either way, your options are just accept it or try one of the 'not officially supported' ways to getting around it. That's likely why Google said you were out of luck. It's possible but involves rooting etc. I think. Just search for 'change wifi country code android'. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am afraid that the issue is not as simple. I also have problems with channels 12 and 13, however my phone can connect to those channels, but only for a while. I quote the report I filed in the AOSP bug tracker (not yet assigned, though):
Before I continue, I am based in Switzerland, use a Swiss mobile provider (Swisscom), and I bought my phone through Google in Switzerland. This is relevant because in Europe 802.11b/g/n channels 12 & 13 are allowed, while in the North America they are allowed only under "low power conditions" with the effect that, AFAIK, many devices simply do not support them. My Nexus 6P however should (and shall) support those two channels.
Now, the problem.
I have two access points at home, both in the 2.4 GHz band: one on channels 4+6 and the other (normally) on channels 12+13. What I noticed is that my Nexus 6P would initially connect to the strongest signal independently from the channel, as expected, but then after a while (a couple of hours, maybe) would just stop seeing the signal on channels 12 & 13. Not just my own WLAN, but also neighborhood WLANs on the same channels. This means that the phone can be sitting a couple of meters from the AP in my office (channels 12+13) and be connected to the AP at the opposite corner of the building (the one on channels 4+6). I checked with "WiFi Analyzer" and the phone really does not see any signal above channel 11.
Disabling and re-enabling WiFi will make the phone see channels 12 & 13 once again. However after a while the problem appears again.
At home this is just an inconvenience: I moved the frequency of the second AP to a different channel and that "solved" the problem. On the other hand this might be a much more serious problem when I am in an environment where I can't change the WiFi settings. Maybe I want to connect to a public hotspot broadcasting on the "wrong" channels or I am at the office in an area covered by APs on channels 12 & 13. Tough luck.
Incidentally, I saw at least one report of someone who had exactly the same issue: he had to disable WiFi and enable it again to get the phone to connect to his WLAN (on channel 12 or 13, I can't remember). I also have to say that in our household we have a few other Android devices (2 x Nexus 7, 1 x Nexus 9, 2 x Nexus 4, 1 x Moto X Play) running either 6.0.1 or 5.1.1 and a few other devices (iPhone 5S, iPhone 6, laptop, 2 x Kindle) and none exhibits this behavior. It seems to be specific to the 6P.
I suspect that after a while the WiFi driver simply reverts to its default regulatory domain ("US", I assume) and stops listening to channels 12 and 13. Why it might do so is anyone's guess. Maybe doze interferes with the driver.
Same problem here. The only way to reconnect to WiFi channel 12 or 13 is to manually switch WiFi off and on again on the 6p.
I'm in Hungary.
Guys, there is a thread in the Nexus Help Forum and I reported the issue in the AOSP Bug Tracker. Add your contributions to those threads and star them. Let's try to bring this to Google's attention, otherwise we will never get any action on this topic.
Edit: For some reason I can't add links to the post. Please search issue 197106 ("WiFi 2.4 GHz channels 12 & 13 not working properly on Nexus 6P running 6.0.1") in the AOSP Bug Tracker and the post "My Nexus 6P can't connect to Channel 12 or 13 WIFI's" in the Google Product Forums.
Roberto
I have been trying for a week to extract some information from Google and Huawei, but I must say that their support just doesn't know anything about this issue. It's even difficult to get someone to understand what the problem is: one Google support guy thought I was talkng about LTE channel 12, for example. Huawei support started talking about options in the WiFi settings that are not there, then they wanted to guide me through adding a new WLAN, and finally started clutching at straws, giving more and more fantastic explanations of why it might be so.
Bottom line is: nobody I talked to ever heard about this issue.
I would really like to understand if it could be a hardware issue (which I honestly doubt) because my RMA window is closing soon and I don't honestly know what to do: apart from this WiFi issue my 6P is absolutely flawless and I do not want to risk getting a new telephone only to find out that WiFi still does not work as expected and it's also got other issues. (And, yes, something like this already happened to me.)
robertototaro said:
I have been trying for a week to extract some information from Google and Huawei, but I must say that their support just doesn't know anything about this issue. It's even difficult to get someone to understand what the problem is: one Google support guy thought I was talkng about LTE channel 12, for example. Huawei support started talking about options in the WiFi settings that are not there, then they wanted to guide me through adding a new WLAN, and finally started clutching at straws, giving more and more fantastic explanations of why it might be so.
Bottom line is: nobody I talked to ever heard about this issue.
I would really like to understand if it could be a hardware issue (which I honestly doubt) because my RMA window is closing soon and I don't honestly know what to do: apart from this WiFi issue my 6P is absolutely flawless and I do not want to risk getting a new telephone only to find out that WiFi still does not work as expected and it's also got other issues. (And, yes, something like this already happened to me.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, I also have the same problem. As I can report it to Google? I have not found a way.
gmarti said:
Hello, I also have the same problem. As I can report it to Google? I have not found a way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you call the Google Store Support? I hope that if they hear the same reports repeatedly they will take notice.
If your telephone is unlocked (and if you are on XDA chances are it is), flash Franco's kernel. I did it today and now my problems with WiFi are gone. Plus Franco's is known to be very battery efficient. It's a win-win situation.
Hi guys have you ever tried using your m3 for streaming connected to a blutooth speaker or headphone? My speed drops to 80% and becomes unstable once i connected my blutooth to a device.. do you have this issue as well? I mean from 80mbps it drops to around 5-20mbps it is ridiculous
This has been a huge issue for me. Most of the info I have gotten about it online says that the 2.4ghz wifi and Bluetooth are known to sometimes interfere with each other. That is my major reason for wanting to root this and enable the 5ghz band. I have already changed the wifi channels on my router and that didn't work. I guess I am gun shy about rooting since it has been a few years since I have done it and I haven't seen a comprehensive root guide for this yet (not looking too hard yet).
Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk
ahent said:
This has been a huge issue for me. Most of the info I have gotten about it online says that the 2.4ghz wifi and Bluetooth are known to sometimes interfere with each other. That is my major reason for wanting to root this and enable the 5ghz band. I have already changed the wifi channels on my router and that didn't work. I guess I am gun shy about rooting since it has been a few years since I have done it and I haven't seen a comprehensive root guide for this yet (not looking too hard yet).
Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So does this mean that this has been an m3 issue? My Note 5 does not have this issue. It is so annoying I cannot properly play spotify and at the same time use my blutooth speaker. what a waste .
Have you tried resetting it?
Even turning it on... affects wifi
Even if it is not connected to anything. If I just turn it on wifi speed becomes very slow....
All I can say is that it is definitely noticeable when Bluetooth is on, I have a 200 megabit bit connection, it will buffer Netflix almost unwatchable. I did some quick Googleing and found lots of references across many devices saying that there was interference. I have not reset the device, after seeing it was a known problem and not necessarily device specific I figure the hell with it. Again, rooting and turning on the 5ghz wifi on the M3 solves it.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
ahent said:
All I can say is that it is definitely noticeable when Bluetooth is on, I have a 200 megabit bit connection, it will buffer Netflix almost unwatchable. I did some quick Googleing and found lots of references across many devices saying that there was interference. I have not reset the device, after seeing it was a known problem and not necessarily device specific I figure the hell with it. Again, rooting and turning on the 5ghz wifi on the M3 solves it.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried hard resetting the unit. Same issue... once connected to my blutooth speaker it degrades my wifi internet speed to almost 90%.
Post #23 on the forum linked below tells you how to enable 5ghz network after root. If you successfully root I would love a tutorial or link to instructions.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3521257
Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk
but I have the BTV-DL09 model.
The DL09 is the lte international one, correct? Then I believe you have the ability to use 5GHz out of the box. You just need a router that puts out 5ghz
Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk
That's what I am planning to do. But isn't weird that using the 2.4 ghz wifi and blutooth cannot work together? Im hoping for a fix for this one. I refuse to buy a new router just for this. My god! ??
I bought the BTV-DL09 (international) version and experiencing the same. I am connected to a 5Ghz network and speed drop from > 200Mbps to < 40Mbps (sometimes less than 20 Mbps) as soon as I enable Bluetooth. This sucks as I use Bluetooth headphones and sometime audio stutters too and definitely looks like there is interference between Bluetooth and Wifi
MediaPad M3 BTV-W09 Bluetooth/WiFi interference
mewg79 said:
I bought the BTV-DL09 (international) version and experiencing the same. I am connected to a 5Ghz network and speed drop from > 200Mbps to < 40Mbps (sometimes less than 20 Mbps) as soon as I enable Bluetooth. This sucks as I use Bluetooth headphones and sometime audio stutters too and definitely looks like there is interference between Bluetooth and Wifi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same issue on BTV-W09. I've been on chat with Huawei for this issue multiple times, and they want you to delete cache and/or reset unit to resolve this issue. This is a bogus solution, as my two recently purchased Mediapad M3s have the same issue after trying this fix. I have a 20mbps download, and can achieve close to that with bluetooth off.
With it on, if often tests lower than 5mbps--quite terrible. Netflix becomes unwatchable with bluetooth headphones.
According to a Huawei agent, the bluetooth and wi-fi antenna are the same, and it is "normal" to see this slowdown. I'm wondering if it is normal to purchase a media device that won't stream properly when using bluetooth headphones? Hmmm, should't promote this as a media device but as a reader if that is the case.
I'm suppose to communicate again with Huawei tech support on 12/05/17 as they further research this issue. They seem unaware of it, so it wouldn't hurt if all users on this thread would contact there tech support and complain--ask for a proper solution.
I spoke to Huawei about this issue and they told me it was a hardware issue that the tablet should not be having. The agent said to send it in to them for replacement or to exchange it where I purchased it. He said a new one shouldn't have the same issue.
I plan on exchanging it, but I'm wondering if anyone has an M3 that doesn't have this issue. It's gonna be a bummer to exchange it only to have the same problem.
alsip1023 said:
I spoke to Huawei about this issue and they told me it was a hardware issue that the tablet should not be having. The agent said to send it in to them for replacement or to exchange it where I purchased it. He said a new one shouldn't have the same issue.
I plan on exchanging it, but I'm wondering if anyone has an M3 that doesn't have this issue. It's gonna be a bummer to exchange it only to have the same problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you ever have any luck with this. I am having the same issue and Huawei is basically saying the same thing, send it in for a hardware fix. Has anyone had this device successfully repaired?
rtmccoll said:
Did you ever have any luck with this. I am having the same issue and Huawei is basically saying the same thing, send it in for a hardware fix. Has anyone had this device successfully repaired?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any luck with this? I have same issue.
Sent from my Self
Yeah, me too, waiting for an update. I have toggled Bluetooth on/off, location on/off it only really becomes a problem when Bluetooth and wifi are on at the same time. Wifi crawls. If I found an easy way to root it, I would then allow 5ghz and be done with this.
Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk
Not JUST WIFI, EVEN SIM INTERNET SLOWSDOWN
i have done many many tests with bluetooth on n off, when bluetooth is on i am 100% sure it affected BOTH wifi and internet from my sim card BIG TIME. Lesson learned, will stay away from this brand
ahent said:
Yeah, me too, waiting for an update. I have toggled Bluetooth on/off, location on/off it only really becomes a problem when Bluetooth and wifi are on at the same time. Wifi crawls. If I found an easy way to root it, I would then allow 5ghz and be done with this.
Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!
I use 5ghz and still face WIFI crawling with my BT headphones.
Pretty ridiculous problem from Huawei IMHO. Like we are back in 90s.
Oh, that's unfortunate, I was hoping the 5ghz would solve the issue. Well, the bright spot in this is that I only really use my Bluetooth QC35II headphones when I'm on an airplane and in airplane mode so not too much of an issue there.
Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk
Apparently the new M5 has this problem too.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3767604
Title pretty much covers it.....I have had it with the WiFi issues on the OP8 Pro and was going to go back to the OP7 Pro.
....but people are saying that they are all fixed in Android 11 beta on the OnePlus forums...is this true? And what about Dual SIM which I also need on occasion?
If I move to A11 OB2, can I root and get GPay working?
Is it stable enough to be a daily driver?
Many thanks in advance...
MW
MetroWestMA said:
Title pretty much covers it.....I have had it with the WiFi issues on the OP8 Pro and was going to go back to the OP7 Pro.
....but people are saying that they are all fixed in Android 11 beta on the OnePlus forums...is this true? And what about Dual SIM which I also need on occasion?
If I move to A11 OB2, can I root and get GPay working?
Is it stable enough to be a daily driver?
Many thanks in advance...
MW
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can root OB2 device, and the OB2 seems usable and also stable enough for daily usage.
I recently acquired a oneplus 8 pro purchased directly from oneplus.com. I have model IN2025. It is the 12gig ram 256 gig storage version. I also have a samsung active watch 2 which I again have had no problems with my oneplus 7 pro. When I initially acquired it, I tried using it with the android 10 non beta firmware. I had multitude of issues up to and including:
1. high difficulty (to not at all) connecting to either my 2.4ghz wifi network OR my 5ghz network. It would state connecting however stall at obtaining IP address. No other devices have issues connecting to either networks including my older oneplus 7 pro.
2. if it would finally connect, while it may state that the 5ghz is connected at 300mbps or the 2.4ghz connected at 144mbps, with random speed tests I would not experience anywheres near those speeds (my ISP dishes out 200mbps). at most I would get 30mbps on my downstream....again if it even worked.
3. both the 2.4ghz and 5ghz networks would often disconnect and never reconnect if and when they did successfully reconnect
I installed the open beta 1 and then did OTA to open beta 2. This has helped quite a bit HOWEVER I've experienced the following issues:
1. while I have no longer received the locking up on obtaining ip address, even if it states I'm connected to my wifi (either the 2.4 or 5ghz) the network is still extremely slow
2. sometimes the device while connected to either wifi network will appear to not send any information aka stall which potentially makes using google messages over wifi unreliable as well aka text msgs show up late etc
In both pre and after beta installation 5g has been significantly slower than 4g cellular data(though I can't say much to that as more than likely the 4g in my area has towers closer near by). Also while on 4g or 5g cellular connections I have though not as frequently experienced data stalls.
Things that have helped resolve some of my issues:
1. this I believe is the largest potential bandage: make sure use device mac address NOT RANDOM is selected. After having done that my connecting to the internet appears to be better (even if it still stalls out)
2. while I've not tried it alot as I use bluetooth alot (with the watch I have and my car and wireless headsets)I've read that turning off bluetooth can help both wifi and cellular data issues
I am currently in the process with oneplus of returning the 8 pro for a new 8 pro as I have not owned/had the phone for greater than 15 days. If that does not resolve the issue, I too may go back to a oneplus 7 pro...or perhaps the 'dark side' and go the samsung route.
Just sharing my experience so far!
Excessiveidling said:
Just sharing my experience so far!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excessiveidling,
This is exactly the type of info I was looking for. So it sounds like it is better, but still bizzare WiFi issues that no other phone on the market has. My situation is...
I have to leave bluetooth on because of watch and hearing aids
I need to rely on WiFI calling on occasion and need it to be 100% reliable.
I need working WiFi at home because I use my phone for some applications that connect via my home network, so having WiFi work "most but not all" of the time is a deal breaker.
So at this point I think I am going to switch back.
I've been a loyal OP fan for quite a while (4 phones now), this has been really disappointing. I even bought a new router because someone said WPA3 would help...but it didn't.
MW
While I can not say anything to the validity of the following statement...I have heard in other forums that the samsung devices with the same qualcomm chipset had wifi/cellular issues (especially with 5g).....that was only ONE forum post however unlike the multitudes of forum posts I've seen regarding the oneplus.
If I were to guess, only based upon my limited modding experiences with previous android phones, an updated modem/chipset software COULD resolve these issues...further more a different/modified kernel as well. Doing that would probably void any warranty though and for spending 800+ on a phone, you shouldn't have to modify in order for it to work just as well if not better than an older phone.
I'll let ya know how the exchange goes. I'm willing to give them another shot 1. because of my excellent experience with the 7 pro and 2. because I've seen so many posts, reviews, etc stating the oneplus 8 pro is THE PHONE to have overall.
Thanks,
E|
I read the same thing re - chipset, and agree that is a possibility. The other is a horrible RF design for the BT / WiFi antenna because they crammed in the wireless charging.
But I don't see any of this getting fixed anytime soon. I wonder if the OP8 (non pro) has similar issues -- I didn't check.
Let me know how your new phone works out - an RF HW update or a new batch of chips could change things.