Hey guys!
So I got my Nexus 5X 2 days ago and although I have a yellow screen problem (for which I am getting replacement very soon), I am extremely happy to have it!
A habit I have with every Nexus device is to unlock the bootloader and root it on the first day. What worried me here, however, is the recent suspicious information that the QFuse built in the chip "blows up" upon unlocking the bootloader, leaving a permanent, irreversible tamper mark.
Today, upon contacting a Nexus Specialist regarding my yellow screen replacement, I was tempted and finally did ask about this issue. What I got as an answer confirmed my belief and I am sharing it here with you: unlocking the bootloader & blowing the QFuse does NOT void your warranty.
Of course, chat proof is attached to this post.
I hope this motivates everybody here to start using their Nexus devices the way they are meant to be used!
All the best,
Victor
There isn't a QFuse on the N5X, from what I've heard, or at least no mention of it on the bootloader, like there is on a 6P.
Good to know either way!
PhoenixTank said:
There isn't a QFuse on the N5X, from what I've heard, or at least no mention of it on the bootloader, like there is on a 6P.
Good to know either way!
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What I read is that all new Snapdragon processors are manufactured with a QFuse in them, whether used or not. The bigger question is whether they are even used for bootloader unlock checks in the first place.
I hate how people are always terrified about "voiding their warranty".
Two things in LAW that need to be made very clear;
1) ANY clause of a contract that is in contradiction with LAW is ITSELF void. What this means, is if the sales contract specified in the warranty says that "X voids the warranty" and it is NOT LEGAL for them to void the warranty on the basis of X, then regardless of what the warranty claims, the warranty is NOT void.
2) Anything modified by the user CANNOT blanket void the entire warranty. It can only void the warranty on aspects that are actually impacted by what the user modified. I.e., if you change the software, then the buttons fall out, the warranty is STILL VALID on the buttons.
3) Anything that is NORMAL FUNCTION of the device cannot void the warranty. I.e., these phones have unlockable bootloaders. They are DESIGNED to be unlocked. It is ILLEGAL for them to deny warranty claims on the basis of unlocking the bootloader.
doitright said:
I hate how people are always terrified about "voiding their warranty".
Two things in LAW that need to be made very clear;
1) ANY clause of a contract that is in contradiction with LAW is ITSELF void. What this means, is if the sales contract specified in the warranty says that "X voids the warranty" and it is NOT LEGAL for them to void the warranty on the basis of X, then regardless of what the warranty claims, the warranty is NOT void.
2) Anything modified by the user CANNOT blanket void the entire warranty. It can only void the warranty on aspects that are actually impacted by what the user modified. I.e., if you change the software, then the buttons fall out, the warranty is STILL VALID on the buttons.
3) Anything that is NORMAL FUNCTION of the device cannot void the warranty. I.e., these phones have unlockable bootloaders. They are DESIGNED to be unlocked. It is ILLEGAL for them to deny warranty claims on the basis of unlocking the bootloader.
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I actually enjoyed reading this. I've never been really familiar with these laws and I am a bit relieved knowing the above information. Thanks!
doitright said:
I hate how people are always terrified about "voiding their warranty".
Two things in LAW that need to be made very clear;
1) ANY clause of a contract that is in contradiction with LAW is ITSELF void. What this means, is if the sales contract specified in the warranty says that "X voids the warranty" and it is NOT LEGAL for them to void the warranty on the basis of X, then regardless of what the warranty claims, the warranty is NOT void.
2) Anything modified by the user CANNOT blanket void the entire warranty. It can only void the warranty on aspects that are actually impacted by what the user modified. I.e., if you change the software, then the buttons fall out, the warranty is STILL VALID on the buttons.
3) Anything that is NORMAL FUNCTION of the device cannot void the warranty. I.e., these phones have unlockable bootloaders. They are DESIGNED to be unlocked. It is ILLEGAL for them to deny warranty claims on the basis of unlocking the bootloader.
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Good luck on actually having any company go along with that. And actually yes, they can void the warranty if you do something that the warranty says you can't do. Go ahead and send back a device for warranty repair that is rooted, has an unlocked boot loader, custom ROM, custom kernel, etc and see how far you get.
Well spring for the nexus protect and if you brick your phone, take it for a swim before sending it in.
Thanks for sharing the screenshots, OP. I'm glad their policy hasn't changed.
Pandages said:
Thanks for sharing the screenshots, OP. I'm glad their policy hasn't changed.
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this is the beauty of credit cards. simply go and purchase a brand new phone and then dispute the charge on your card saying they are not honoring warranty on the new phone and you will win the dispute in yoru favor and get your money back.. just make sure your buying the phone from the manufacture/google so your ****ing over the right company =)
Related
In short the slider on the keyboard is breaking and I will be sending my phone back under manufacuter warranty. My G1 is rooted and I dont really feel like returning it back to stock firmware. I am wondering who has sent their flashed G1s back and if you guys have been hasseled by t-mobile. The only reason I am asking this is because i have been having trouble returning my phone to stock firmware and I dont feel like spending the time and effort getting it back to stock. Any suggestions/ experiences with this is great.
Thanks Guys!!!!
Why not tell us the problem(s) you're having? It seems to make much sense to get it back to stock rather than risking your warranty.
Software can't cause physical breakage, therefore no need to worry. They are obligated to warranty it for physical problems regardless of the state of the software.
Of course, damage due to abuse is not covered by the warranty, so you would be REAL lucky if they're dumb enough to warranty it anyways.
lbcoder said:
Software can't cause physical breakage, therefore no need to worry. They are obligated to warranty it for physical problems regardless of the state of the software.
Of course, damage due to abuse is not covered by the warranty, so you would be REAL lucky if they're dumb enough to warranty it anyways.
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Software may not cause physical damage, but rooting does void the warranty, so they aren't obligated to repair to it.
just unroot it...its quick and easy and you have nothing to worry about
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=491350&highlight=unroot
AdrianK said:
Software may not cause physical damage, but rooting does void the warranty, so they aren't obligated to repair to it.
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You really need to look things up and think about them in terms of LAW before spewing out nonsense. It is ILLEGAL to deny a warranty claim due to modifications that are absolutely unrelated to the claim. Yes, software modification does void the warranty... ON THE SOFTWARE. NOT the hardware. Can you imagine what car manufacturers would do if this wasn't the case? Warranty void if you unscrew the fuel cap.
lbcoder said:
You really need to look things up and think about them in terms of LAW before spewing out nonsense. It is ILLEGAL to deny a warranty claim due to modifications that are absolutely unrelated to the claim. Yes, software modification does void the warranty... ON THE SOFTWARE. NOT the hardware. Can you imagine what car manufacturers would do if this wasn't the case? Warranty void if you unscrew the fuel cap.
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Okay, calm down. I assumed it would be system wide. Still, I personally wouldn't send it back rooted.
lbcoder said:
It is ILLEGAL to deny a warranty claim due to modifications that are absolutely unrelated to the claim.
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I don't have my G1 documentation handy (it's on the other side of the world) but iirc the entire thing is warranted as a single product, not hardware and software separately. I'm pretty sure that if the warranty has been voided for any reason (even if its unrelated to the error being addressed in the warranty claim) then it is the warrantor's discretion whether to perform service.
For example, if you voided the warranty by opening the case to take a look at the interior and then a month later your UMTS amplifier dies, even though the two events are probably unrelated, HTC would not be required to perform a repair.
Hello
I'm proud owner of TF300T for 1 day
When I unlocked bootloader I had to confirm that my TF is no longer under warranty.
Every dev here has statement in their post that flashing unofficial firmware will void your warranty.
Well, that's not entirely true. If you have purchased your device in EU, then you still have warranty even if it was flashed with unofficial ROM.
Quote:
"Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!"
More details on Matija Šuklje, FSFE Legal Coordinator and Carlo Piana, FSFE’s General Counsel state article:
http://matija.suklje.name/rooting-and-flashing-your-device-does-not-void-the-warranty-in-eu
Happy flashing
* FSFE= Free Software Foundation Europe is dedicated to the furthering of Free Software and working for freedom in the emerging digital society
When I've contacted Asus they've told me my warranty would become void after unlocking the bootloader. Do Asus have a voluntary warranty?
Sent from my R800i using xda-developers app.
Sent from my R800i using xda-developers app.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Asus have statutory warranty 2 yers like everone else who is selling electronics in EU. They have to prove that device died becouse of your action and e.g power button cannot brake becouse you rooted tablet! If they refuse to RMA broken button becouse tab is rooted you can sue or report them to some org for protecting consumer rights.
Recently Apple was charged (or sentenced, I forgot) becouse they were selling "extended warranty" witch lasted 2 years. They are obligatory to have 2 years warranty anyway.
Helpdesk told you what he had to, becouse HQ ordered it and people beleive it becouse they don't know about this EU directive. What they say is valid for US and rest of the world, but not EU.
BTW, from about 2-3 weeks ago unlocking phone or tab locked by carrier (AT&T, Version ....) is in US criminal act. !
stenc55 said:
Asus have statutory warranty 2 yers like everone else who is selling electronics in EU. They have to prove that device died becouse of your action and e.g power button cannot brake becouse you rooted tablet! If they refuse to RMA broken button becouse tab is rooted you can sue or report them to some org for protecting consumer rights.
Recently Apple was charged (or sentenced, I forgot) becouse they were selling "extended warranty" witch lasted 2 years. They are obligatory to have 2 years warranty anyway.
Helpdesk told you what he had to, becouse HQ ordered it and people beleive it becouse they don't know about this EU directive. What they say is valid for US and rest of the world, but not EU.
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asus helpdesk in EU stated that the "warranty void" from unlocking counts only for software problems, if you discover an hardware defect they will still repair it under warranty (in USA and other countries this may vary as they have other customer protection laws).
but if you brick your tablet while flashing a rom meant for another device or something similar they wont cover you anymore - and well, why should they pay for your mess?
the unlocking basically works like those "warranty void if broken" seals that cover key screw on hardware devices - and those seals _ARE_ legal, if you break those you void your warranty as you cant anymore certify that the problem originated by a build defect instead of something you did.
BTW, from about 2-3 weeks ago unlocking phone or tab locked by carrier (AT&T, Version ....) is in US criminal act. !
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wrong, unlocking a phone carrier-lock is a criminal act, unlocking the bootloader to flash firmwares (what they call jailbreak on iphones) is still legal.
NixZero said:
asus helpdesk in EU stated that the "warranty void" from unlocking counts only for software problems, if you discover an hardware defect they will still repair it under warranty (in USA and other countries this may vary as they have other customer protection laws).
but if you brick your tablet while flashing a rom meant for another device or something similar they wont cover you anymore - and well, why should they pay for your mess?
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Agree. Confusion comes because they always say "warranty void" and not "software warranty void". They never mention that HW warranty still apply.
NixZero said:
the unlocking basically works like those "warranty void if broken" seals that cover key screw on hardware devices - and those seals _ARE_ legal, if you break those you void your warranty as you cant anymore certify that the problem originated by a build defect or something you did.
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Those seals are always legal. They prevent users to fiddle with HW. But HW only. They do not apply for SW.
NixZero said:
wrong, unlocking a phone carrier-lock is a criminal act, unlocking the bootloader to flash firmwares (what they call jailbreak on iphones) is still legal.
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That's what I wanted to say, but you said it more accurate.
I see there is a little confusion. This EU directive covers HW warranty, no matter in what state SW is. If user plays with SW then it's his fault if tab does a bootloop or if flashing goes wrong and one have 500€ brick. It's his fault. But if piece of HW is faulty they have to fix it even if tab is rooted and CM10.1 is installed. Problem is becouse they always say "warranty void" without specifying warranty for what? HW or SW? (SW does not have any warranty anyway)
stenc55 said:
I see there is a little confusion. This EU directive covers HW warranty, no matter in what state SW is. If user plays with SW then it's his fault if tab does a bootloop or if flashing goes wrong and one have 500€ brick. It's his fault. But if piece of HW is faulty they have to fix it even if tab is rooted and CM10.1 is installed. Problem is becouse they always say "warranty void" without specifying warranty for what? HW or SW? (SW does not have any warranty anyway)
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in some countries the consumer protection is really poor so they can do as they please, in EU its a lot stricter so probably if somebody pushes they would be forced to change their wording.
but there would need some flashy case and a lot of news coverage (like the wording in apple warranty that pushed users to buy their extra coverage even for the 2nd year that shoud be free, they got burned on that) and its not clear if its worth it as asus seem pretty helpfull when somebody asks
---------- Post added at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------
stenc55 said:
That's what I wanted to say, but you said it more accurate.
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actually I've misread what you wrote, sorry.
NixZero said:
asus helpdesk in EU stated that the "warranty void" from unlocking counts only for software problems, if you discover an hardware defect they will still repair it under warranty (in USA and other countries this may vary as they have other customer protection laws).
but if you brick your tablet while flashing a rom meant for another device or something similar they wont cover you anymore - and well, why should they pay for your mess?
the unlocking basically works like those "warranty void if broken" seals that cover key screw on hardware devices - and those seals _ARE_ legal, if you break those you void your warranty as you cant anymore certify that the problem originated by a build defect instead of something you did.
wrong, unlocking a phone carrier-lock is a criminal act, unlocking the bootloader to flash firmwares (what they call jailbreak on iphones) is still legal.
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i have to add that its a crime to sell a locked phone in Belgium. Tho European court of justice stuck down this law, it is still in use and we got finned for it.
Hello guys
In many threads, I saw that unlocking the bootloader won't void the warranty but in the live chat they have a different opinion. Take a look at my conversation and what they told me (I'm Anastasios and motorola is the other guy)
Code:
Santhosh: Hi, my name is Santhosh. How may I help you?
Anastasios: Hello, I want to know about voiding the warranty. Does the warranty breaks if you unlock the bootloader?
Santhosh: I will do my best to help you with this. Before we move any further, would you please help me confirm your email, location and phone we are dealing with?
Anastasios: My email is tasos****@gmail.com, Location Greece and the phone is moto e 2nd gen 4g xt1524
Santhosh: Thanks for the information.
Santhosh: Yes unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty of the mobile.
Anastasios: But take a look here. http://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
Anastasios: it says that unlocking the bootloader isn't a sufficient reason to breaks the warranty in the europe
Santhosh: Please go through the agreement details when you start the bootloader unlocking it clearly states the warranty void.
Anastasios: so, you say that the stuff the europe counsil decides are not of your bussiness. Here the official article about the rights of the consumer http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:31999L0044&from=EN
Santhosh: Please go through the warranty policy information on this page.
Santhosh: https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-a
Anastasios: Yeah, but you still did not gave me the wanted anwser. The Europe Laws say different things that you claim. So what shoud I do? Should I listen to the europe or to you (motorola)?
Santhosh: Only when you accept these conditions and go to the next page you can unlock the bootloader. Unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty of the mobile.
Santhosh: You can go through the legal terms here. https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/741421/1385047216/redirect/1/filename/Boot_revised.pdf
Anastasios: In every single site that it is for the unlocking part, claim that unlocking the bootloader won't void the warranty if you live in Europe. Is that wrong?
Santhosh: We request you check our official website conditions to unlock the bootloader.
Anastasios: ok then thanks.You won a thread in the XDA forum about how bad are you in terms of warranty and legal stuff. BYE
You have disconnected.
lol now tell me which company allow their users to unlock their bootloader without voiding the warianty?
first example, Sony:
Voiding the warranty
If you unlock the boot loader, you may void the warranty of your device and/or any warranty from your operator. See your device’s warranty statement for details. Additionally, due to the modified device software, Sony’s repair network will likely have to replace key components before it can properly test, repair and verify your device using our repair tools and software. Consequently, if Sony performs a warranty repair, Sony will likely charge you a significant service fee for the additional costs caused by your modification of the software.
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iks8 said:
lol now tell me which company allow their users to unlock their bootloader without voiding the warianty?
first example, Sony:
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I wont disagree but in the unlock threads it says that in Europe the warranty cant be broken that easy
correct.
The companys can write their own warranty rules of course.
But relevant is only what is given here by european and local country law if they sell stuff here.
So, the law overrules their own warranty if there are any differences, esp. in area of the private consumer.
In B2B contracts in contrast, the contract part like warranty can overwrite the llaw, as I once understood.
EB20XY said:
correct.
The companys can write their own warranty rules of course.
But relevant is only what is given here by european and local country law if they sell stuff here.
So, the law overrules their own warranty if there are any differences, esp. in area of the private consumer.
In B2B contracts in contrast, the contract part like warranty can overwrite the llaw, as I once understood.
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So If I unlock my moto I will have the warranty?
t-shock said:
So If I unlock my moto I will have the warranty?
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Depends on where you live. I had s4 with knox tripped. But phone completely died. Couldn't access anything except qcom usb. I'm 100% sure they still could look if it was tripped but I doubt the could say its your fault because you did something wrong.
Same was with my G3 just died but I don't know if I was rooted then.
Though blame people for unlocking bootloader to upgrade Motorola E 2nd Gen should not affect it (theoretically) since you flash their system which only hasn't reach your country. Well I'll see what they say about it. If it wasn't for the waterproof I Would risk it to fix the sim reader myself.
Now I won't so hope warranty will be cover this. Ill stay tuned. and yes I have my bootloader unlocked. And warranty should cover this up for two years.
Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
Hey,
I wonder how Samsung handles the KNOX Warranty void 0x1 cases (e.g. thats when youre rooted)? Is it really that bad? Does anybody had issues with it because of that?
Kind Regards,
Twan
I don't think it would void the warranty for a hardware failure, but have no personal experience to support that.
Previous answers to this question show that it varies country to country depending on consumer laws. In australia for example it is the retailer not the manufacturer bearing responsibility to the purchaser for faults (the retailer is not allowed to evade responsibility) and rooting makes no difference.
timrichardson said:
Previous answers to this question show that it varies country to country depending on consumer laws. In australia for example it is the retailer not the manufacturer bearing responsibility to the purchaser for faults (the retailer is not allowed to evade responsibility) and rooting makes no difference.
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Hey,
Not that I disagree with your explanation, but the consumer still has the right to seek a remedy through the manufacturer directly. Depending on which retailer you are using sometimes it will be easier to deal with Samsung directly.
I know through experince that dealing with Apple for example is way more better than any retailer. I haven't experienced Samsung warranty as of yet through them but I hope they have a similar philosophy as Apple when it comes to customer relations.
With regards to the OP's question, in Australia it would be very unlikely for a warranty claim to be rejected based on rooting your device. Bearing in mind that the warranty claim is not as a direct result of your rooting. Even if you had a cracked screen and wanted to claim a warranty on an entirely untreated matter such as Bluetooth not working etc as long as your direct actions have not caused the issue than your warranty would/should be honoured.
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Rooting doesn't void warranty just uproot it before you send it. Talked to the head of marketing that's what he said. It doesn't make sense anyway. Knox is a corporate warranty for data
skivnit said:
Rooting doesn't void warranty just uproot it before you send it. Talked to the head of marketing that's what he said. It doesn't make sense anyway. Knox is a corporate warranty for data
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But rooting affects the KNOX counter to Warranty 0x1 so i guess it was void, thats also what they say at the chat and the twitter... so i dont know what to believe.
In the U.S., the Magnason Moss Warranty Act prohibits manufacturers from arbitrarily denying warranty coverage. They need to show that something you did caused the problem in order to deny coverage. It would be pretty hard to claim that triggering the Knox bit caused your screen, or a memory chip, or the battery to fail.
That said, if the manufacturer does deny warranty coverage, you have to demonstrate they're wrong. You could file a complaint with consumer protection agencies, or file suit, but the onus is on you to prove your argument, not the manufacturer.
Yes, but i am living in the Netherlands so that could be different. Should i call them about this? I dont want my warranty to get void already.
I've been looking at this question for the past few years and I never found a legitimate document/website where it was explicitly told that by tripping KNOX we void the general warranty of the device. Only thing I saw was people saying it does. I think that people misjudged what the KNOX WARRANTY VOID term in download mode means because it has the term WARRANTY in it. What I believe that the term KNOX WARRANTY VOID means is whether KNOX can guarantee (give a warranty) that it can securely function. Nothing more.
I want to point out again, I'm NOT INTERESTED in answers where people CLAIM it voids the general warranty. I want to know from people who actually tried to claim the warranty with a tripped flag or people who have a friend who tried it out. I searched Reddit and XDA for these answers but never found a legitimate post where a person was denied warranty due to Knox.
This is a good question, but I've noticed no one has answered it in over a year. Perhaps no such documentation exists. Asking people on Reddit and XDA what their experience was is different than an answer in a legitimate document or website. I, too, would like to see such documentation. Android OS is poorly documented, as are other OSs.
i would have to claim that AFAIK , tripping knox would only void any warranties directly related to software issues. (ie Android updates creating boot loops, or in that area). While i cannot say the rules are still 100% the same today, I myself had purchased a Galaxy S10, DIRECTLY from Samsung to be used on Sprint, just over a year ago, and then had one of the members on here do the whole Unlock token things for me, then proceeded to flash TWRP and then Magisk. Well not only does Twrp trip knox, but the bootloader unlock leaves that big "Unofficial Firmware" splash screen on every boot. Well about 2 months before the warranty expired, the vibration motor inside the phone failed, and i didnt wanna pay insurance deductible for something that i thought should be warranty related... I did some research and located some articles (you gotta google, cuz the exact sites i dont remember) that said in the EU, consumers won some lawsuits that banned the manufacturers, namely Samsung and LG, from invalidating warranties for consumers who only modified the firmware in their devices. This was targeted at people who rooted their devices through whatever methods. And the result was that the manufacturers COULD ONLY ENFORCE THAT RULE IF THE WARRANTY CLAIM WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF MODIFIED FIRMWARE/SOFTWARE. If the defect was indeed hardware related, and could not be something triggered by the modification, then the manufacturer was required to comply by the terms of the hardware warranty terms that they had provided by sale of that device.
So i took a shot and contacted Samsung Support via the website and chat interface, and requested a warranty repair. Gave the IMEI and SN of my phone, and they said "Yes warranty is available, can you provide proof of purchase" ... i did all that, and near the end i specifically asked the support person "My phone is Bootloader unlocked via Samsung unlock token, so my phone says "Unofficial Firmware" when it starts up, so is that gonna be a problem because i wont bother sending it if so." and the tech took a few min and said, "as long as the phone itself hasnt been modified or the technicians determine that you opened up the device and did any physical modifications, then NO it wont affect your claim. But please note that we (SAMSUNG) do not provide or sell Bootloader unlocked devices or solutions in the US, so if your device is replaced, it will be with a LOCKED device instead!" I agreed, packed up the phone and sent it with the label they emailed me, and about 9 days later i got a package from Samsung with a new looking s10 inside, a charging cord, adapter and headphones. And sure enough it was locked, but i paid nothing, so they definitely honored the warranty. Hope that helps.
(the reason i say i dont know if its still true today, is that i heard through rumor that the manufacturers were in the process of changing the terms in their warranty, in a way that would legally give them the right to block warranty claims if ANY hardware or software was altered in any way! That seems unlikely cuz its exactly the terms they lost the prior lawsuit under, but **** changes when greedy companies get togeter!)