Database Users

usb 1 or 2?

i get usb 1 speeds is this right?

what is the question??!?!

You've got USB 1 on Magician (for file transfer) if this is the question...

DocteurN said:
You've got USB 1 on Magician (for file transfer) if this is the question...
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Click to collapse
thanks, usb 2 would of been nice to fill up those 2gb cards :twisted:

Wrong.
Most likely the bottleneck for speed is the SD card itself, not USB (1 or 2). Generally large SD cards have awful transfer speeds - write is terrible, read is passable.
You can get "professional" SD cards with different transfer speeds, usually designed for professional photographers who need to take lots of high-quality (and hence BIG) photos really quickly.
> > This site < < has lots of them - search for "60x SD card" and have a look.

KevinL said:
Wrong.
Most likely the bottleneck for speed is the SD card itself, not USB (1 or 2). Generally large SD cards have awful transfer speeds - write is terrible, read is passable.
You can get "professional" SD cards with different transfer speeds, usually designed for professional photographers who need to take lots of high-quality (and hence BIG) photos really quickly.
> > This site < < has lots of them - search for "60x SD card" and have a look.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2gb ultra has high write speeds but not much point if the bottleneck is usb 1!

The bottleneck is not the SD. If I put my SD (regular Sandisk 1GB) in my USB2 card reader I get much higher speeds. I guess ActiveSync steals some speed to, but USB1 is really slow.

MicroSD card performance

I've noticed that copying files to the phone (to storage card) via USB cable is painfully slow (as compared to say regular USB stick).
Would purchasing a high speed MicroSD (e.g. Sandisk Premier) help or is the phone itself the bottleneck?
Thanks!

Try connecting your phone as a mass storage device, if you haven't done that already.
You can select this when you plug in the usb cable.
Accessing the storage card is way faster then.

milan_ns said:
I've noticed that copying files to the phone (to storage card) via USB cable is painfully slow (as compared to say regular USB stick).
Would purchasing a high speed MicroSD (e.g. Sandisk Premier) help or is the phone itself the bottleneck?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have purchased SanDisk Mobile Ultra (Class 6) and the performance increase in real terms is marginal!

milan_ns said:
I've noticed that copying files to the phone (to storage card) via USB cable is painfully slow (as compared to say regular USB stick).
Would purchasing a high speed MicroSD (e.g. Sandisk Premier) help or is the phone itself the bottleneck?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would certainly help. Also search this forum for tnyynt's SD Tuneup cab. Note that installing that cab only makes much of a difference once you got a faster SD.
The transfer speed of the SD is limited for whatever reason, power preservation, whatever, it's limited to optimize for slower SD cards. So The SDTuneup cab ups this limit, meaning you will notice a much bigger speed difference when using faster SD cards.

i also find the msd card speed poor. especially when you open up a folder with a lot of images every image software takes minutes to scan the folder.
that is very lame

Transfering SDHC Content to Touch HD

Guys,
I'm soon going on a trip to the Lake District (UK National Park) and will be doing a lot of climbing/hiking/walking.
Whilst I am at the summits of certain 'Fells' I will be taking photo's with my Digital Camera.
At that point I want to transfer Photo's from the Camera to the Phone and send them directly from the Phone.
Problems I need to overcome:-
The Camera uses SDHC.
The Phone uses MicroSD.
Apart from the Phone there is no power source.
What do you think is the best way to transfer the Photo's to the Phone so that I can then send them over 3G?
Thanks in advance.

Why not use a Micro sd in a Micro SD to SD adaptor, that way you are storing the camera images direct to a micro SD card and can then just put that in your phone to send the images

alanwesty said:
Why not use a Micro sd in a Micro SD to SD adaptor, that way you are storing the camera images direct to a micro SD card and can then just put that in your phone to send the images
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Click to collapse
The camera will not take an adapter.
Don't forget I won't have the option of using a computer.

Why will the camera not take an adaptor I have used these adaptors ina PC and they work just the same as if you had put an ordinary SD card in.

alanwesty said:
Why will the camera not take an adaptor I have used these adaptors ina PC and they work just the same as if you had put an ordinary SD card in.
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Click to collapse
Can you show me which adapter will connect directly to a camera WITHOUT the need for a PC.
Surely you need the PC to transfer the data across?

You can get SD adaptors that are just the same size as an ordinary SD card with a slot in the end to fit a Micro Sd card. This means that they fit anywhere a SD card fits and appear like a SD card to the device they are fitted to. A search on google for "sd adaptor" will find one.

alanwesty said:
You can get SD adaptors that are just the same size as an ordinary SD card with a slot in the end to fit a Micro Sd card. This means that they fit anywhere a SD card fits and appear like a SD card to the device they are fitted to. A search on google for "sd adaptor" will find one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but that would mean taking the photo's DIRECTLY onto the MicroSD Card.
I use high speed burst mode with my camera and that requires a fast SDHC Class 6 16GB Card.
You can not get a 16GB Class 6 MicroSD.
Although some will be released very soon the difference in price is quite high.
I'm trying to overcome having to chop and change cards between camera & Phone.
I am seeking a lead or something on this vein for transferring the data across.

Surely you're going to have to make some kind of sacrafice at some stage, either:
- Shoot on Class 2 MicroSD (via SD Adapter)
- Take laptop/netbook along
- Only other viable option is some kind of device that replicates SD to MicroSD without a PC - I don't think it exists.
You sound like your probably using a DSLR, have you thought about the time it will take to tranfer each photo over 3G, even assuming you can get 3G reception in the Lake District browsing the net on mine can be frustrating enough never mind uploading 4Mb photo's.
Oh and the power issue is pretty big! Have you got a windup/solar charger or a shed load of spare batteries?
Good luck though - it's a worthy cause

foaf said:
Surely you're going to have to make some kind of sacrafice at some stage, either:
- Shoot on Class 2 MicroSD (via SD Adapter)
- Take laptop/netbook along
- Only other viable option is some kind of device that replicates SD to MicroSD without a PC - I don't think it exists.
You sound like your probably using a DSLR, have you thought about the time it will take to tranfer each photo over 3G, even assuming you can get 3G reception in the Lake District browsing the net on mine can be frustrating enough never mind uploading 4Mb photo's.
Oh and the power issue is pretty big! Have you got a windup/solar charger or a shed load of spare batteries?
Good luck though - it's a worthy cause
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, I'm shooting with a couple of cameras (Big Nikon D2Xs & a small semi-pro Panasonic LX3).
The Nikon though uses CFII for storage and I aim to use this camera with it's heavy zoom lens at the foot of the fells.
The LX3 will be going up with me to the top this time as I've done the Nikon before (and what a weight it was).
The last time I had all my gear... Laptop, Mobile 3G, Solar Charger, etc. etc.
This time however I'm trying something different and want to go as light as possible.
I've got the new Proporta portable charger and this will give my Phone plenty of charge.
The LX3 has two spare batteries so that's not going to be an issue.
I did think about using a mobile hard drive like the Archos AV700 (which I have).
It requires no power source using cable alone and has USB Host.
However, it would mean more weight and cables etc.
I just wondered if there were another simple way I could achieve my aim.
I intend to transfer around 3 to 6 pics and appreciate what you say on the speed issue (agree fully) but I want to complete the task which will help in the review I end up writing.

Hi Beards,
I tried but don't have all the right cables to prove it.
I thought the USB on the HD would also behave as a master for storage - so I thought I could connect a USB to a SD converter and that would be the solution. BUT, I don't have a USB female-female connector. I do have a micro USB to USB cable and a USB SD convertor. My aim was to plug it all in and try - Sorry.
Maybe this will work for you with the SD card appearing (hopefully) as storagecard2 but I need the extra cable to prove it.
Only other issue I can think of is the pictures will be big so no MMS transfer will be possible. Only email attachments and then I think there might also be a limit.
Have a great trip !

Cheesy Dave said:
Hi Beards,
I tried but don't have all the right cables to prove it.
I thought the USB on the HD would also behave as a master for storage - so I thought I could connect a USB to a SD converter and that would be the solution. BUT, I don't have a USB female-female connector. I do have a micro USB to USB cable and a USB SD convertor. My aim was to plug it all in and try - Sorry.
Maybe this will work for you with the SD card appearing (hopefully) as storagecard2 but I need the extra cable to prove it.
Only other issue I can think of is the pictures will be big so no MMS transfer will be possible. Only email attachments and then I think there might also be a limit.
Have a great trip !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Dave,
Nice speaking with you again.
Thanks for the heads up, this sounds promising.
I've got a couple of weeks to try and sort it out so if you come across anything suitable do please let me know.
Been far too busy in theatre lately. This trip will make a perfect break.

Why not just use the camera's 50mb internal memory to copy from your cheap high speed SDHC card to the micro SD card in SD adaptor combination already suggested? Since you're only talking abut 3 or 4 photos it shouldn't be a great hardship, and you get to shoot the way you like.

shuflie said:
Why not just use the camera's 50mb internal memory to copy from your cheap high speed SDHC card to the micro SD card in SD adaptor combination already suggested? Since you're only talking abut 3 or 4 photos it shouldn't be a great hardship, and you get to shoot the way you like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not taking 3 to 4 shots shuflie.... I'll be 'transferring' 3 to 4 shots to the Phone.
I will be taking around three hundred odd shots in total. I've then got to pick which will then be transferred to the phone.
It's an interesting concept though....
The MicroSD to SD Adapter keeps cropping up in topic here. So on basis this needs to be investigated further.
Edit:
I have just checked the Manual on the LX3 and it would appear this procedure can be done.
According to the Manual I can copy data from an SDHC card to Internal Memory and vice-versa.
So.... all I would need to do is:-
1. Pick from which shots require transferring.
2. Transfer them into Internal Memory.
3. Take out the SDHC Card with all the photos on.
4. Insert the SD Adapter with MicroSD card.
5. Transfer the selected Internal Memory shots on to the MicroSD card.
6. Take out the Adapter and MicroSD card from the camera and remove the MicroSD from the SD Adapter.
7. Insert the MicroSD card into the Phone and temporarily place in internal memory.
8. Take out the MicroSD card and replace with the correct storage MicroSD card.
9. On the Phone, transfer the shots from Internal Memory to the Storage card.
10. Send the shots over 3G.
Phew........ but at least it should work.

DSLR image sending via Touch HD
Hi Beards
I am a news photographer and do exactly this all the time.
There are sacrifices that pretty much have to be made.. you can't do everything you want without power and a laptop / or loads of extra kit.
The sacrifice is basically you cant shoot on class 6 cards you are stuck with the speed of the microSD. However.. we shoot riots, news, entertainment, etc in RAW mode on a Canon DSLR and unless we hammer it and motordrive loads of shots we dont have any problem with the slow microSD cards from SanDisk. I'm not sure what you plan to burst shoot but i would suspect if it serves us ok doing breaking news it should serve you ok up in the countryside. (unless you are doing motorsports or something )
Our workflow is this..
We shoot RAW images on the Canon EOS1D mk II on a SanDiskc 8bg microSD card in a SanDisk SD card adaptor.
We put the microSD card into the touch HD and use an application called Phojo http://www.idruna.com to extract the jpeg image from the raw file and email or FTP the image from our phone. Phojo has a lot of pro features that you may or may not need.. although it is commercial software so may not be something you want to invest in.
Of course shooting JPEG should mean you can shoot even quicker as the files are less than half the size of the raw images and you dont need Phojo to do the extracting of files. You can of course use the touchHD's built in email software then to send them by email if you wish. We recomment Phojo however because it is specifically designed for this application.
There are obviously other solutions.. you can get battery powered tiny USB transfer devices (belkin used to make one) that will transfer the content of one usb device (card reader / card) to another. However we havent had much success with these and they are fiddly.
Your needs match very much what press photographers do every day. All the ones i know do it by using the microSD adaptor / Phojo method (altho most dont shoot RAW they shoot JPEG) The ones who dont use the microSD method are either using a wifi transmitter made by canon or nikon on their camera and Phojo or they are using a PDA/Phone that supports USB host or SD cards.
Hopefully this helps
kind regards
Edward
Equinox Features
http://www.newspics.com

Newspics, that's really interesting. Great to see how the pro's do it.
I feel like there sould be camera's with built in capabilities to upload pics by now. Or at least Bluetooth 3.0 between the phone and the camera. Live Mesh does a pretty good job for me for syncing pics to my PC, if only it could sync between Camera, Phone and PC.

If you will have no access to a power supply how are you going to keep your phone charged?

HD2 USB transfer speeds?

I've looked everywhere. No one seems to have posted them. What are they?
Right now I'm a bit confused. Since this is an awesome device you'd think it would be fast in every aspect. It is, except for USB file transfers.
I'm running on Windows 7 Ultimate. I backed up everything from my phone to the computer with a data transfer rate from the SD card, in the phone, of 4.5MB/s. I then formatted the card (read earlier that this would help with the HD2 lock-ups) and copied everything back onto the SD card in the same fashion, through the phone. The data transfer back is right around 2.5 MB/s.... ???
I've tested all the ports around the computer, each are about the same. Anyone have any idea on how to fix this?

First thing would be to tell what kind and class of microSD card you have...

That would really depend on your SD card "class".
The higher the class, the faster it is capable of performing reading and writing operations.
But it's better to avoid the 16GB cards... the larger capacity cards take much longer to read... regardless of classifications or brand.
Something like a 4GB - Class 6 card is excellent.

I've read that it's only a class 2 MicroSD. Do you guys know where I can get class 4, or even a class 6 MicroSD? Whichever I get however depends on the max speed of the HD2. For example, I don't want to buy a class 6 and find out that the HD2 can only handle speeds up to the class 4. There is a $30-$40 USD difference.
Thanks for the SD info, it definitely helps. But now we're brought back to my original question. What are the max transfer speeds through the phone onto/from the MicroSD card? Has anyone found out?

personally i wouldn't do large data backups through activesync/MDC with the card still in the phone.
its simple to remove the card and put it in the supplied adapter card for use with sd_readers.
i bought a usb1.1 reader from a 'pound' shop, copying large files takes alot less time (average 10-11mb/sec) with my more expensive usb2.0 reader its even faster (average 50-60mb/sec)
card class does make a difference, but then so does sending large amounts of data through a 'middle man' like activesync or device center.
budget SD reader FTW

That is a good point, and I agree is faster than through the phone. For me though I have a few accessories on the phone which make taking the SD card out quite a pain.
I have an invisishield on the screen, and a poly-something or other high density plastic cover to replace the cover that came with the phone,-- It grips around the HD2 tightly. The cover is wonderful, but it tends to interfere with the invisishield. So if I am continually taking the cover on and off to get the SD card out I will eventually bend up the edges of the invisishield and will need to get that replaced.
In my best attempts to keep the phone nice I'm going to have to stick with whatever input/output the HD2-to/from-SD can give me.

choosing disk drive mode rather than active sync is the easiest way to speed up file transfers.
re: the figures you gave in post 1, write is always slower than read.

Forgot to mention, it was in 'disk drive mode'.
Btw, I found that the HTC HD2 is USB 2.0 Hi-Speed capable out-of-box. (I'd post a link, but forums wont let me, being new), and Hi-Speed USB can transfer 480Mbits/s, or ~57MB/s (Wikipedia, Universal Serial Bus, Signaling).
The Class 6 MicroSD card can write 48Mbits/s, or 6MB/s (Wikipedia, Secure Digital, Speeds). Easily obtained for the HD2.
Assuming this is everything that needs to be dealt with, this should work out wonderfully. I'll be writing files 300% faster with a class 6, and reading a whole lot faster (thanks Samsamuel, forgot about that read/write differences). Question is though, is this all? Or do I need to install some hi-speed usb driver on the computer? Or are there other things I'm not seeing that need to be dealt with?

its also worth remembering when you are doing the maths that USB loses around 25/35% to networking overhead. (the data that makes up the packet that holds the data you are transferring)
So, 480 Mbit = 60MBytes total = around 35Mbytes actual data transferred per second. (Results vary depending on the system, the cable, all kinds of things, but 30-35 is average, a little more in a testbed situation.

So I guess I'll just have to suffer with 219% faster instead of 300%... Well, looks like I'm returning the HD2!

[Q] What is Defy's micro SD card slot Class / specification?

Hello All,
I know there are lots of threads here about which SD cards work with the Defy, and which don't... E.g.:
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However, as an experienced computer hardware tech, it all seems very back-to-front to me. When you buy a new PC motherboard, the manual invariably tells you what memory type it requires, what speeds it can handle, and what its maximum memory data transfer rate is. Then, you can simply go out and buy the fastest memory the motherboard supports, and be fairly sure of two things: 1: it's going to work, and 2: you'll have the fastest memory speed you can get out of the motherboard, without wasting money buying faster memory than it can utilise.
For those who don't really understand these things, every motherboard, every CPU, every memory controller and every memory module has a maximum rated speed [over-clocking not included!] at which it is 'guaranteed' to work and be reliable. If your motherboard/CPU/memory controller has a maximum rated 800MHz memory transfer rate, there is no point installing 1333Mhz memory in that motherboard, because the motherboard will only run it at 800MHz. You'll pay more, for no speed or reliability advantage. In fact, as this forum shows, there is a VERY GOOD chance that you'll end up with something that is less reliable. This is because, as chip speeds increase, of necessity, certain timings and timing relationships change. For example, "Data Hold" times may [probably will] decrease, meaning that when reading data back from a faster memory chip, the data is starting to "disappear" from the output pin, before the CPU has had time to properly read it. The data transfer becomes "marginal", meaning it only just works, or doesn't quite. This will result in memory read errors (which will look like data corruption, even though the data inside the chip is perfectly correct), and will result in many of the problems described in these various threads. It will probably vary, depending on temperature, supply voltage, and type of data transfer (e.g. Photo/Video/USB, etc) and even phone - I.e. One Defy might work, the next might not - or your system (PC, phone, etc) may work for some things but not others, or work when it's cool, but bomb out as it gets hot, or vice versa. Instability and Unreliability are the keywords!
This, I submit, is why many people with Class 10 SD cards report problems. They would, I believe, be far better to buy Class 6, and are probably living under the illusion that a Class 10 card will work faster. I would say, it almost certainly won't...
Anyway, my point is, why do phone makers (or Motorola at least as I haven't really looked at other manufacturers) not publish their phone SD Card slot specifications? I just don't understand why not. It seems so fundamental to me.
If they did, you (everyone) would know what card Class to get, and be confident that it should work, and that if it doesn't, you've got a dodgy card. We wouldn't need long threads on XDA Developers discussing which cards work, and which don't.
So, my Defy came (OEM) with an unbranded 2GB micro SDHC card, with no visible Class mark. I wanted to upgrade, so I searched the Motorola Manuals for the SD Card slot spec, to find out what Class I needed. AMAZING, but No Luck! I couldn't find it anywhere.
So I looked at a cellphone accessory suppliers website, to see what they offered.
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Nearly all cards listed for the Defy are Class 4, so I figured the Defy must have a Class 4 slot.
I bought a 32GB Class 4 ADATA micro SDHC card, locally. It worked, no problems. I have tested it fairly thoroughly, copied a couple of GB of data to it (over USB) and done a bitwise comparison of the data. No problems. I have taken and viewed photos and movies, and seen no problems. I also tested the memory speed (using SD Tools from Google Play). It gives Write speeds of around 6MB/s and Read around 15MB/s.
However, while I was there, I spied a clearance priced 4GB Class 6 card, so bought that too. (Also ADATA.) Haven't tested that so much, but did run the same speed test in the same Defy phone. Was disappointed to find that the Write Speed is over 9MB/s (though Read is still around 14-15MB/s.)
From this, I conclude that the correct speed Class for the Motorola Defy SD card slot is actually Class 6 (and that I should have bought a Class 6 card... )
Can anyone tell me whether this is correct, and where, if anywhere, the actual manufacturer's SD card slot spec's are published?
BTW, the original 2GB card looks, from SD Tools, to be a Class 4 card, though oddly, the speed seems to vary a lot with that card. It sometimes, at the start of the test, goes as high as 10MB/s, but usually stabilises and ends at about 5.6MB/s (Write speed).
Also, can anyone with a Class 10 card (that works) in their (Original model) Motorola Defy please report here what data Write and Read speeds SD Tools reports? I think everyone with a Defy who wants to upgrade their memory would be very interested to know!
I think it would be great to finally nail this issue down.
Regards,
D2