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So... yeah I messed up by unlocking the bootloader on my phone...
(not really)
Now the power button doesnt want to work when I want it to..
Sending in for a warranty replacement... With $529 on my card (hope they dont charge and let it slide for hardware failure)
Now waiting to put charge so HTC can send me my replacement...
I will keep you guys posted on if they remove the $529 from my card and honor the hardware warranty
I'm in the same boat, but mine was due to dust under my screen. I have already received the phone. I will be sending my old one back to them tomorrow. I just checked my account and the $529.00 has been dropped, which is weird, but im not going to take a chance. So im sending it back. Hopefully a nice tech gets my phone and doesn't care that the bootloader has been unlocked.
futango said:
I'm in the same boat, but mine was due to dust under my screen. I have already received the phone. I will be sending my old one back to them tomorrow. I just checked my account and the $529.00 has been dropped, which is weird, but im not going to take a chance. So im sending it back. Hopefully a nice tech gets my phone and doesn't care that the bootloader has been unlocked.
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they sent you a knew one?? i have dust under my screen too but i didnt want to send it in and be without a phone
They don't seem to care, they can re-lock it anyway.
bobdude5 said:
they sent you a knew one?? i have dust under my screen too but i didnt want to send it in and be without a phone
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They put a $530 hold on your CC and send you a replacement with a FedEX shipping return label in your email. Once you get the replacement, you put your old on back in the box and ship it back to them. The one is most likely a refurb, I can tell because there are some dust by the side volume buttons. I have been using it for a few days now and havent seen dust under the screen.
I had this same power button issue. I had my nexus rooted but sent it in for repair anyways. They fixed it and shipped it back to me. I had my phone relocked and fixed back to me in 2 days. It was a very easy process.
bobdude5 said:
they sent you a knew one?? i have dust under my screen too but i didnt want to send it in and be without a phone
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Click to collapse
They give you 2 options.
Option #1
Send the phone into them and they will repair it and send it back. ( This is my only phone and dont like to go a day without it.)
Option #2
They put a $529 hold on your CC and they send out a replacement phone to you overnight. You have 10 days to return your phone. They receive the phone, check your phone, if all is good, they drop the hold.
I went with option 2.
Yeah Option # 2 is by far the simplest, you just have to have enough on a credit card to cover that hold.
death1246 said:
Now the power button doesnt want to work when I want it to..
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Click to collapse
Are you sure it wasn't the Home button setting causing the button not to work on CM?
I just had a non-warranty replacement for a cracked screen. I got the same aluminum shell back, but the engraved portion was blank. I pretty sure about the case because I damaged the finish a bit when I cracked the screen. I could have got a refurbished unit with similar damage, but it's weird. The engraved portion is the same as the rest of the case.
Anyway, the point is that I don't think they really care. I'm almost sure that I had killed part of the chipset as I couldn't get any of the radios to work and charging it for 5 minutes would make it too hot to hold. They only charged me for the screen repair and seem to have sent a reconditioned phone.
TheMikeMiller said:
I just had a non-warranty replacement for a cracked screen. I got the same aluminum shell back, but the engraved portion was blank. I pretty sure about the case because I damaged the finish a bit when I cracked the screen. I could have got a refurbished unit with similar damage, but it's weird. The engraved portion is the same as the rest of the case.
Anyway, the point is that I don't think they really care. I'm almost sure that I had killed part of the chipset as I couldn't get any of the radios to work and charging it for 5 minutes would make it too hot to hold. They only charged me for the screen repair and seem to have sent a reconditioned phone.
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I agree. Your not the same mike miller that went to university of florida, are you? (question edit)
ChillRays said:
I agree. Your not the same mike miller that went to university of florida, are you? (question edit)
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Click to collapse
LOL! i goto FIU but eh and still waiting for my replacement to arrive
TheMikeMiller said:
I just had a non-warranty replacement for a cracked screen. I got the same aluminum shell back, but the engraved portion was blank. I pretty sure about the case because I damaged the finish a bit when I cracked the screen. I could have got a refurbished unit with similar damage, but it's weird. The engraved portion is the same as the rest of the case.
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Click to collapse
So I just dropped my N1 (with unlocked bootloader) yesterday and the screen cracked. Can I send in the phone to HTC and get it replaced / repaired? How much did it cost for others?
You'll have to send it in, they'll take a look at it to asses the damage, and let you know how much it will be if you go ahead.
My power button failed. Could not turn phone in at all. I chose option # 2.
Mine was unlocked, rooted, cyanogenized. They sent a replacement and took the charges off my card. Use that option is what I recommend.
so pretty much they say it will void your warranty when u root but people sending in rooted phones for repairs get charged nada? oh man, Goggle, you guys r the best. just don't turn into Apple who were once the "rebellious" company and then turned all strict (with the app store filtering BS and the whole iPhone 4G scandal) and then get all mad with power. Apple voided my warranty on my jailbroken ipod touch that has a damaged headphone jack (no sound came out) because it was jailbroken. last i heard, jailbreaking doesn't have anything to do with a broken headphone jack
Hey Everyone,
I just wanted to share my experience with sending my nexus one with an unlocked bootloader to HTC for cleaning.
Like a lot of nexus one owners, I started seeing dust under my screen after a few months (I always kept the phone in it's case while not in use). I called HTC and they sent me an email with a fedex delivery label. I sent the phone in on a Monday, and by the next day they had received it and posted a status that my phone was being diagnosed. A few hours later, the status changed to indicate it was being repaired. By Wednesday, they finished the repair and I received my cleaned phone on Thursday.
The best part: I had unlocked my bootloader and when I received the phone back the bootloader was relocked! This time, I gained root without unlocking the bootloader.
One issue however: My phone's IMEI is different that what it was when I sent it in. Not a huge problem, however some games I had no longer recognized my phone after I did a nandroid restore.
I hope this helps anyone who has a problem with dust under their screen and is reluctant to send it in for cleaning.
-a9
Interesting to hear that they cleaned it and returned the same phone. When I called them in may they said it will take two weeks and they will send me a refurb phone.
What was the process like? The Nexus I just bought form a dude from CL was kinda dinged up, which was okay, and the phone was perfect other than those few dings, I find out later(which he probably didn't care about but I do) was the back button isn't as sensitive as the other capacitive buttons and there's one spec of dust under the screen.
How do I start the process?
I had the same results a few months back, but I opted for a refurb instead of a repair. Told them I had dust under the screen, and the rep said, "OK, we have two options...repair or refurb." Not a single question asked.
staulkor said:
I had the same results a few months back, but I opted for a refurb instead of a repair. Told them I had dust under the screen, and the rep said, "OK, we have two options...repair or refurb." Not a single question asked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any deposit or hold on the account?
EDIT: Just checked the phone, It has definite dust under the screen near the top and bottom. I am a shoe-in for a refurb now.
Same exact story for me. I also had a few dings in the bottom shell of the phone, they replaced that as well. Which is awesome. I just know it's my phone because the IMEI is the same, as well as a small little scratch on the screen is still there.
Also shipped a Cliq in to Motorola to get the keyboard repaired. I shipped them both on a Tuesday, got the Nexus back on that Friday. Didn't get the Cliq back until the Friday after. That's ridiculous.
My serial number and wireless MAC are the same but the IMEI is different.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Grrr, I will have to wait almost a week and a half to do this, since that's when I will have the funds available for the process. . .I don't want to wait a week! Lol, I want to have this done by the end of the week.
@Tito You don't need "funds" to do the repair, just send them your phone and use another for awhile. I lucked out and upgraded to the Vibrant, and then got my Nexus One back the day I was returning the Vibrant. Since it sucks and all.. Haha.
Wisefire said:
@Tito You don't need "funds" to do the repair, just send them your phone and use another for awhile. I lucked out and upgraded to the Vibrant, and then got my Nexus One back the day I was returning the Vibrant. Since it sucks and all.. Haha.
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I am wanting a refurb. Do they repair cosmetic stuff like dings or scratches on the housing aswell? If so I will just do that.
~~Tito~~ said:
I am wanting a refurb. Do they repair cosmetic stuff like dings or scratches on the housing aswell? If so I will just do that.
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Click to collapse
Yes, they replaced my entire casing which had a few small scratches and one large ding on the bottom where I dropped it on the sidewalk. It's pretty wonderful.
Wisefire said:
Yes, they replaced my entire casing which had a few small scratches and one large ding on the bottom where I dropped it on the sidewalk. It's pretty wonderful.
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Click to collapse
I will wait for the refutb lol, cs rep convinced me since everything is guarenteed to work and they make sure it has a new mobo and everything so its like new. I am down for that lol. But this wait time is gonna kill me, since I dont have all the money to do it.
staulkor said:
I had the same results a few months back, but I opted for a refurb instead of a repair. Told them I had dust under the screen, and the rep said, "OK, we have two options...repair or refurb." Not a single question asked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What was your situation? Unlocked bootloader and all? Did you mention it, did you get any charges, can you tell the whole story lol. I will have 500+$ on the line.
Nexus One Dev handset
I have the exact same issue with dust under the screen but on the lower left of the screen. I have two things working against me ;
a) I'm not sure if the handset is in warranty as it was given to me by a Google Staff member as it's a Dev phone.
b) there are superficial scratch marks from my keys on the casing which an engineer my assume are impact marks from a drop which is not the case.
what are my chances of it being repaired for free?
I would expect it to be out of warranty buy now if it came from a Googler.
I sent mine back due to my screen was impossible to use, sent it back, they replaced just about all inside parts, mother board and much more, I had the phone back in 3 days working great. HTC has done everything to make my phone perfect. I would not hesitate to purchase any HTC product, they are the best IMO.
Thank You HTC
I called HTC UK my phone is still in warranty period until December 2011. She also said the screen would be replaced free of charge as it is manufacturers fault if I wanted any additional repairs i.e. casing etc that I would have to pay for that, however I can still avail of the UPS pick up service. Price Quotation of £30 for new casing.
£30? That's bloody good!
I've my N1 off with HTC UK at present getting repaired, it for some reason stopped letting any SIM card connected to any network.
Sent it off last Thursday (24th Feb) and still not got it back yet. HTC repair tracking is telling me the repair is done but no sign of the phone as yet.
I'm pretty sure I cracked my LCD but before I go on a man hunt I figured I'd check here first.
I tripped and rolled on my phone yesterday causing this to happen, when I turn on my Nexus you get a few colors but mostly the screen is black. The top glass is not broken.
I called HTC (my phone is still under warranty) and they said it'd be 155 bones to get it fixed.
Any idea where I can buy the LCD to fix this myself for cheaper?
I searched but couldn't find anything really.
this, this or this?
I have a broken one too, fell 2 floors down from stairs onto marble floor, though only amoled broke and i bought a new one for $100 cuz it was the only one who shipped to my country
Yep sounds like your LCD is broken. It's an easy enough fix if you wish to do it yourself, you should be able to get one on eBay for relatively cheap. I've actually got one spare that works perfectly if you want it. I'm based in the UK so it may be cheaper to get one on eBay if you're not around the same area.
Hollow.Droid said:
Yep sounds like your LCD is broken. It's an easy enough fix if you wish to do it yourself, you should be able to get one on eBay for relatively cheap. I've actually got one spare that works perfectly if you want it. I'm based in the UK so it may be cheaper to get one on eBay if you're not around the same area.
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I tried calling HTC as my phone is still under warranty for another month. They said it was a known issue and would most likely be fixed for free. So I decided to try that route. I'll keep ya'll posted.
difrnt said:
I tried calling HTC as my phone is still under warranty for another month. They said it was a known issue and would most likely be fixed for free. So I decided to try that route. I'll keep ya'll posted.
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Click to collapse
LCD screens being broken by people falling onto them is a 'known issue'? Ya don't say!
DirkGently1 said:
LCD screens being broken by people falling onto them is a 'known issue'? Ya don't say!
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It surprised me to, haha!
Supposedly they've had issues with people using their nexus and the LCD just breaking underneath the glass and that's what the rep said they would put in the ticket even though I had told them the real story.
difrnt said:
It surprised me to, haha!
Supposedly they've had issues with people using their nexus and the LCD just breaking underneath the glass and that's what the rep said they would put in the ticket even though I had told them the real story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good stuff, sounds like you got a pretty decent rep to handle yours
I just had this same repair done by HTC. On the first information-gathering call to HTC, the rep told me I'd be without my phone for 2-3 weeks. So then I considered trying to repair it myself using an AMOLED screen from ebay, but saw they ship from China and didn't feel like waiting for that either.
In the end, HTC pointed out that they could ship me a replacement phone before I sent mine in. I received a working phone two days later, shipped mine and then approved the "repair" via a support website. Obviously, they then repair the damaged phone and dump it into the repair pool.
It cost $115 and I was very happy with the process.
Hope all goes well with the free repair!
So, I called in today to check the status. My nexus is on it's way back repaired and all...FREE OF CHARGE.
difrnt said:
So, I called in today to check the status. My nexus is on it's way back repaired and all...FREE OF CHARGE.
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Click to collapse
Congrats. HTC has been pretty great about service with the N1.
I have only been using this phone for about a week. has anyone has this problem and send it to htc to repair? does this cover under warranty??
This was a huge issue with my MT3G Slide. If I remember correctly, it is a warranty issue. You can send it to HTC or (not sure) I think T-Mobile will replace it. The problem is with the glue that holds the digitizer to the screen, it's crap.
Also, when you get your new phone go into a dark room and check for light leaks. Probably under the top shell so open the keyboard and look on the back side of the screen.
i have had my desire z for nearly 2 months now, no dust yet
I was in your spot a few weeks ago. Dust just magically accumulated under the screen one night. A few days later it bugged me so much I called T-mobile, explained that there is dust underneath the screen and that there is no physical damage on the phone. They sent out a replacement that night and I got it 3 days later. No issues no cost to me free shipping both ways.
They did this for me on a used phone I brought in too, so I'm sure there would be no issue getting yours replaced if its new especially.
chrisyeung88 said:
I have only been using this phone for about a week. has anyone has this problem and send it to htc to repair? does this cover under warranty??
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Click to collapse
I had the same issue caused by the screen not being aligned properly with the casing which left a 1mm gap between the the screen and casing allowing dust and fluff to seep through. It's a manufacturing fault so just send it back to htc. If you're rooted, best to unroot first, you don't want to give them any ammunition;, )
Stea1thmode said:
I had the same issue caused by the screen not being aligned properly with the casing which left a 1mm gap between the the screen and casing allowing dust and fluff to seep through. It's a manufacturing fault so just send it back to htc. If you're rooted, best to unroot first, you don't want to give them any ammunition;, )
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did htc charge you? what is the procedure to take it back? and price for the courier?
chrisyeung88 said:
did htc charge you? what is the procedure to take it back? and price for the courier?
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Click to collapse
It's covered on warranty, you don't have to pay for anything, best to contact htc via email to keep a paper trail on things. They will send out a courier to pick up your phone, it's only a simple procedure so it shouldn't take long.
Stea1thmode said:
It's covered on warranty, you don't have to pay for anything, best to contact htc via email to keep a paper trail on things. They will send out a courier to pick up your phone, it's only a simple procedure so it shouldn't take long.
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Click to collapse
when i contact htc.... they said "At that stage the choice is given to either go ahead with the repair or have the phone returned. To have the phone returned a fee of approximately £20 for courier costs and the evaluation is applicable." which makes me slightly confused
you still have dust problem after the fix?
Had my g2 for like 4 month no dust. That's good am with T-mobile. They will replace your phone even if you have the the smallest problem.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
chrisyeung88 said:
when i contact htc.... they said "At that stage the choice is given to either go ahead with the repair or have the phone returned. To have the phone returned a fee of approximately £20 for courier costs and the evaluation is applicable." which makes me slightly confused
you still have dust problem after the fix?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm slightly confused myself, the way I interpret your text is that after evaluation should you decide not to have your phone repaired then they will charge you for courier costs to have your phone returned to you. Like I said previously it should be covered by warranty so you won't have to pay a penny.
After repair, the dust problem is soughted.
Depending on how bad the dust is...take your phone and repeatedly, but lightly tap it on a table...the dust particle will eventually, make it to the edge of the screen and get "stuck there" and you won't be able to see it anymore. At least, most of the time, it will.
verkion
Dust problem does get worse..... only time I am free enough to let htc collect my phone is easter....
Mm... I will try the tap method.......
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
What a bummer, that's a long wait. Just so that you're aware it doesn't have to be your home address, you can use friends, family, work etc. address. The courier can just pick up/drop off even when you're not there.
Stea1thmode said:
What a bummer, that's a long wait. Just so that you're aware it doesn't have to be your home address, you can use friends, family, work etc. address. The courier can just pick up/drop off even when you're not there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oo how?? as currently im living on student accommodation. don't really know how can i let them pick up. and prefer not to drop off bk at the accommodation office too
Have had my G2 since release and no dust yet
tried the tap method... but nothing happen..... dust is getting closer to centre now... as more dust gets in
I don't know if this thread is still alive, i hope it is.
Well, I got my G2 just about a couple of weeks ago. Got it off kijiji, cuz the gentleman who sold it to me told me that it has warranty till september 2011, i decided to buy it. It still does have warranty. It has got 2 problems, 1 with battery, the phone is s-off, rooted, and modded with CM Nightly RC1, and the battery just runs out very quickly, i have to charge the phone atleast twice a day. and 2nd is with he screen, it has got dust underneath, on right hand top corner, so i decided to call htc directly and find out if i can send the phone off for repair, and if i could get a replacement battery.
The girl on the other side was nice enough that she is sending me a new battery, so one problem will be solved, then I asked her if i can send the phone back to them to get it fixed.
I am actually worried about 2 things. One is how do I put the stock rom back on the phone? I am not a great modder and don't really know(i think little bit research will help, as i found this thread after search) and two is i am really afraid of htc charging me for something i might not have done. such as liquid damage. physically the phone looks great. no scratches or any sort of physical dent marks. but liquid damage is something really scares me out.
what should I do?
I need some advise from my fellow xda folks... Please help me out...
As far as i know, if you grab the official firmware from bell, (i assume bell because you said kijiji and that is normally canadian), load that up and make sure your recovery is stock, htc will not even know if you had a custom rom in it.
As for the water damage, there is usually a small white sticker where the battery usually sits. This sticker changes colour if it is exposed to excessive moisture. If this sticker is still white, then you are fine.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
Athrun88 said:
As far as i know, if you grab the official firmware from bell, (i assume bell because you said kijiji and that is normally canadian), load that up and make sure your recovery is stock, htc will not even know if you had a custom rom in it.
As for the water damage, there is usually a small white sticker where the battery usually sits. This sticker changes colour if it is exposed to excessive moisture. If this sticker is still white, then you are fine.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Not actually, i got the G2 off kijiji, the tmobile version which i use for my wind mobile sim card.
I called htc directly and the girl on the other side said the phone is fixable being in canada but i m just curious and concern about the charges they might apply to fix this... i asked her specifically that if i m in canada are you sure there will be no charge for me to pay? she said, we will require your credit card which has at least a dollar value on it, just for security(which i thought is weird as i have N1 i had to sent out for repair and they didn't ask for my credit card info... i asked her and she said N1 and G2 are two different cases handled by two different operational teams, they don't require info for N1 as its a Google phone, while G2 is sold by tmobile, my cc info they will use in case if there is any liquid or physical damage and i will have to pay for at least shipment back which is $35)
regarding the sticker, i can see a small white rounded sticker underneath the battery which is fairly white so far... i assume that's the one and doesn't look like it has changed color significantly, but I am still afraid - i think i might color blind... lol... i had a problem before with rogers bb bold, where i sent the phone in for repair and they said it has got liquid damage as the sticker has turned blue and i had to pay $250 for it...
That's the reason I need suggesions from ya'll people... how can I make sure my phone is damage free and can get the dust problem fixed?
i am really scared and totally confused...
creativedevil said:
Not actually, i got the G2 off kijiji, the tmobile version which i use for my wind mobile sim card.
I called htc directly and the girl on the other side said the phone is fixable being in canada but i m just curious and concern about the charges they might apply to fix this... i asked her specifically that if i m in canada are you sure there will be no charge for me to pay? she said, we will require your credit card which has at least a dollar value on it, just for security(which i thought is weird as i have N1 i had to sent out for repair and they didn't ask for my credit card info... i asked her and she said N1 and G2 are two different cases handled by two different operational teams, they don't require info for N1 as its a Google phone, while G2 is sold by tmobile, my cc info they will use in case if there is any liquid or physical damage and i will have to pay for at least shipment back which is $35)
regarding the sticker, i can see a small white rounded sticker underneath the battery which is fairly white so far... i assume that's the one and doesn't look like it has changed color significantly, but I am still afraid - i think i might color blind... lol... i had a problem before with rogers bb bold, where i sent the phone in for repair and they said it has got liquid damage as the sticker has turned blue and i had to pay $250 for it...
That's the reason I need suggesions from ya'll people... how can I make sure my phone is damage free and can get the dust problem fixed?
i am really scared and totally confused...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh, just wanted to clarify since I didn't see any of the T-Mobile versions on Kijiji when I did my shopping.. If that's the case and you have the G2, then you should be able to pop by the T-Mobile site and grab the stock ROM off them. I also saw a list of stock roms somewhere on this site for the DZ/G2.
If the water sticker is whitish, then it's still good. As long as it's not red/pink or blue, those would be a sure sign of water damage.
The only reason why they would need a credit card, in my opinion, is for any unexpected charges that they would apply to it in the case of a necessary repair that is not covered under warranty. But other than that, I wouldn't know why else.
I hope you get it sorted out.
Regards.
Any idea of how to fix without taking back to HTC as my phone is rooted and don't really want to back to stock, i heard from my cousin that it is simple fix, with plastic tool and open the glass clean it and replace the double side tape if required...
can anyone confirm this
thanks
i dont think you can just take out the glass in the front. you need to dissassemble the phone to get to the screen and wipe the dust. just search and dissasembly video on the g2/dz and it will show you how
when i search the glass replacement parts, there is not screw or whatever
and been told its hold my double sided tape
whitepandaaa said:
when i search the glass replacement parts, there is not screw or whatever
and been told its hold my double sided tape
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know but you cant just pull the screen out from the front. its being held in by the metal unibody so its basically impossible to take it out from the front. you need to dissasemble the bottom of the phone and detach the keyboard and screen along with the ribbon cable. then you can take out the back of the screen part and accest the glass display.
If you're unsure how to do the replacement yourself, or are unsure that you can do it, why not just send it in to HTC?
Returning it to stock is easy enough, and you can get it replaced for free. I had dust underneath my screen too. A couple calls with T-mo and my replacement phone was at my door within a week. I had the new one rooted before I even took the old one back to UPS to be shipped out to T-mobile.
I'm just saying that if you break the phone trying to clean the dust yourself, HTC won't fix it for free. If you just unroot it and send it to them they'll do it for free. Your call...
martonikaj said:
If you're unsure how to do the replacement yourself, or are unsure that you can do it, why not just send it in to HTC?
Returning it to stock is easy enough, and you can get it replaced for free. I had dust underneath my screen too. A couple calls with T-mo and my replacement phone was at my door within a week. I had the new one rooted before I even took the old one back to UPS to be shipped out to T-mobile.
I'm just saying that if you break the phone trying to clean the dust yourself, HTC won't fix it for free. If you just unroot it and send it to them they'll do it for free. Your call...
Click to expand...
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problem was htc takes a month to fix my phone, and they already tried last time, which completely fail... dust went in within 2 days after i got it bk
You can do it pretty easily using compressed air, without opening it in any unintended way.
Sending it to HTC care isn't of much help simply because they've got a tonne of requests to tend to. Anything you send to them will take at least around 3 weeks to get resolved, so avoid it unless you're phone is in such a bad state that you want it replaced.
whitepandaaa said:
problem was htc takes a month to fix my phone, and they already tried last time, which completely fail... dust went in within 2 days after i got it bk
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Well if you're not in the US I'd understand I suppose. T-mobile in the US dealt with mine, and I didn't have to send my device in, I just had to wait for them to send me a replacement, and then I sent mine back. So no down time without a phone.
another reason was as my phone was rooted, when the phone is "fixed" they will apply the latest update on my phone which will be the android 2.3.3 with htc sense, which could be a problem to downgrade... no one know yet
martonikaj said:
Well if you're not in the US I'd understand I suppose. T-mobile in the US dealt with mine, and I didn't have to send my device in, I just had to wait for them to send me a replacement, and then I sent mine back. So no down time without a phone.
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Click to collapse
I think I need to do this, because I've been letting this go forever and it's just getting worse and worse.