Database Users

I love windows 8 but...

I have the rtm of pro activated with a legit key for vlsc and when you consider this is supposed to be finished I have found it almost more buggy than release preview. It took ages to get AMD Catalyst installed and it required me to go into device manager to install the driver manually first and that's the windows 8 software. That could be excused its not MS its just beta software. The thing I don't get though is my music plays in media player yet the new metro music app bombs out about 1-2 seconds in on any track and I have tested a few now. The email is almost impossible to work out how to add new email accounts and you can still only have metro apps on one screen and that includes the start menu. This means that even though I have 3 screens if I want to put my email to one side I then have to use that screen for any other work im doing. Yes the multio monitor support has some cool tweeks ie the toolbar on all 3 screens (eyefinity did this anyway) it still ties me to one screen working arg. Also for some reason my ocz agility 3 hard drive only score 6.9 booo something wrong there. Rant over! There is many little bugs crashes but I love the os overall so don't want to look to negative but I was expecting more from rtm.

lumpaywk said:
I have the rtm of pro activated with a legit key for vlsc and when you consider this is supposed to be finished I have found it almost more buggy than release preview. It took ages to get AMD Catalyst installed and it required me to go into device manager to install the driver manually first and that's the windows 8 software. That could be excused its not MS its just beta software. The thing I don't get though is my music plays in media player yet the new metro music app bombs out about 1-2 seconds in on any track and I have tested a few now. The email is almost impossible to work out how to add new email accounts and you can still only have metro apps on one screen and that includes the start menu. This means that even though I have 3 screens if I want to put my email to one side I then have to use that screen for any other work im doing. Yes the multio monitor support has some cool tweeks ie the toolbar on all 3 screens (eyefinity did this anyway) it still ties me to one screen working arg. Also for some reason my ocz agility 3 hard drive only score 6.9 booo something wrong there. Rant over! There is many little bugs crashes but I love the os overall so don't want to look to negative but I was expecting more from rtm.
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you cant really hold MS to blame for shoddy driver support on an unreleased product from manufactures who haven't released final drivers (graphics and HDD) the multi monitor thing is a bit of a pain, and the email accounts couldn't be simpler, Media player bombing out sounds like a pretty serious issue and I suspect yet another driver related issue given that its not widespread and so far as I can tell, user specific, which is likely hardware specific
What is lost upon Mac users is that Windows must support a near limitless set of hardware combos, the mere fact it works on most computers is a huge achievement, unfortunately it can have its problems, I have audio issues as well, I very much doubt my sound card manufacture will get new drivers out and will more than likely force me to change hardware, that's a pain, but it is also good business sense

Don't worry bro. I have the same problems. Release Preview is buggy as all hell.
My WMP won't even open without instantly freezing. I've tried both 32 and 64-bit versions. They do open separately without having to use hacks, which I will give it to MS, it's about time.
The mail app barely opens. You have to restart the whole computer to get it working again.
W8 HATES Google Chrome browser. Constantly locking up. Google needs to get it together with that one. I've always hated IE, but since it's 64-bit native, it seems to perform quite nicely. Just need to find some sort of extension to block ads and I'd be good to go. They seem to have made quite the number of improvements to it since last I used it.
Menu options such as "Print" and "delete" have disappeared from the PDF app. They were present in the Consumer and Developers previews.
I have an HP Presario DV7-6165us Notebook, and believe it or not, I think the graphics work better with W8 built-in drivers than the AMD Catalyst ones I later decided to install. It was the same story when I used CP and DP. All the built-in drivers seem to have better performance. Especially the Wifi ones. Bluetooth stock drivers even run everything I need and connect my devices flawlessly, but when I install drivers from HP designed for W7 64-bit, we have problems.
Normal, 3rd party applications freeze on a regular basis. Can't blame MS for that. It's the devs of the applications we have to complain to in order to get them to develop compatibility with W8.

I personally haven't had any compatibility issues with my software, and I had already ironed out a way to install my modded graphics drivers in CP and RP. Chrome works great. Bear in mind I'm running the x86 version as oppose to the x64 one. Overall it runs even better than the previews and the only let down for me was the lack of new features from preview to rtm.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app

I feel really stupid in the fact that I accidentally did an upgrade install. *facepalm*
Did a custom after "refreshing" the OS, which was a nightmare to complete anyways... but now that's it's pretty much stock, everything works again. XD

dazza9075 said:
you cant really hold MS to blame for shoddy driver support on an unreleased product from manufactures who haven't released final drivers (graphics and HDD) the multi monitor thing is a bit of a pain, and the email accounts couldn't be simpler, Media player bombing out sounds like a pretty serious issue and I suspect yet another driver related issue given that its not widespread and so far as I can tell, user specific, which is likely hardware specific
What is lost upon Mac users is that Windows must support a near limitless set of hardware combos, the mere fact it works on most computers is a huge achievement, unfortunately it can have its problems, I have audio issues as well, I very much doubt my sound card manufacture will get new drivers out and will more than likely force me to change hardware, that's a pain, but it is also good business sense
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Ahhhhh, yes, the "Mac hardware is easy" fable. I love this one. I would type more, but apple patented something I'm doing on my Android phone, so I'll be arrested any moment...

Most of my issues are driver based and so not down to MS directly. My gripe is that this stuff was working in the preview so whatever changes MS made has now brocken almost half of the drivers that did work. Getting my Catalyst to work was a pain but it now does though it took me to manually install the driver then install the software. I will swap out my Asrock motherboard for a sabertooth r2 but i cant see many people wanting to make such changes.
My main MS gripe is the multi monitor support after they made such a big deal about it and it does not do the most basic of functions. this is not an early build driver issue this is a problem with the OS. Plus its one that cant be fixed with a link on the taskbar like the lack of start button. TBH im wandaring what AMD has up its sleaves for eyefinity and how they can get around hot corners(at the mo i turn off outside of games windows+p). Another issue is the music app, this is a bug, i dont know how widespread and once again will be down to some 3rd party but there is nothing that any normal user would not have and media player works so its not down to mp3 drivers or currupt files etc.
As for Macs they have tons of issues themselves and the new OS hardly works on anything. Apple is miles behind and its just thanks to a great marketing dept and the easy peer presure of the modern word that they have become so huge.

Apparently the amd v9 driver works better than the 1 designed for RP

ohgood said:
Ahhhhh, yes, the "Mac hardware is easy" fable. I love this one. I would type more, but apple patented something I'm doing on my Android phone, so I'll be arrested any moment...
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no one said it was easy as such, but if you design an OS around a piece of hardware then it will (you would hope) have been run through the grinder a lot more. Until this last decade trying to get most 3rd party hardware to run on a mac was a pain in the arse, made much easier with the move to x86 I might add but still, its not a fable, unless Apples testing programs are as crap as its customer service!

lumpaywk said:
I have the rtm of pro activated with a legit key for vlsc and when you consider this is supposed to be finished I have found it almost more buggy than release preview. It took ages to get AMD Catalyst installed and it required me to go into device manager to install the driver manually first and that's the windows 8 software. That could be excused its not MS its just beta software. The thing I don't get though is my music plays in media player yet the new metro music app bombs out about 1-2 seconds in on any track and I have tested a few now. The email is almost impossible to work out how to add new email accounts and you can still only have metro apps on one screen and that includes the start menu. This means that even though I have 3 screens if I want to put my email to one side I then have to use that screen for any other work im doing. Yes the multio monitor support has some cool tweeks ie the toolbar on all 3 screens (eyefinity did this anyway) it still ties me to one screen working arg. Also for some reason my ocz agility 3 hard drive only score 6.9 booo something wrong there. Rant over! There is many little bugs crashes but I love the os overall so don't want to look to negative but I was expecting more from rtm.
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Click to collapse
I have problems to with amd proc and.ati video drivers
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium

If it's an ati mobility card then Google search mobility modder, that's how I got mine to work.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app

ArchangelRenzoku said:
W8 HATES Google Chrome browser. Constantly locking up. Google needs to get it together with that one. I've always hated IE, but since it's 64-bit native, it seems to perform quite nicely. Just need to find some sort of extension to block ads and I'd be good to go. They seem to have made quite the number of improvements to it since last I used it.
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http://www.bing.com/search?q=tracking+protection+lists&src=IE-TopResult&FORM=IE10TR

Well, that all is the reason why RTM is getting available today to Technet and MSDN subscribers and only gets released to regular consumers in October. Developers at hardware companies need to adapt some of their drivers and many things they have to do can only be done now that Microsoft has finished development.
Most of those issues will likely be resolved before Windows 8 hits the streets. I guess most people will get it with a new PC anyway and at least there I expect it to work without problems.

StevieBallz said:
Well, that all is the reason why RTM is getting available today to Technet and MSDN subscribers and only gets released to regular consumers in October. Developers at hardware companies need to adapt some of their drivers and many things they have to do can only be done now that Microsoft has finished development.
Most of those issues will likely be resolved before Windows 8 hits the streets. I guess most people will get it with a new PC anyway and at least there I expect it to work without problems.
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yes just hours now from my Technet download The metro screen issue is still bugging me and i dont see that getting fixed untill blue/windows 8.5. I dont think MS even sees it as an issue yet. My Graphics are working like a charm now bar it seems my fan runs between 80-100% all the time even with low temps so i dont see it being long before thats fixed. Asus has there official drivers out already (gutted now i chose asrock over them but you live and learn). I hope meia center goes live today aswell, i dont really use it much now as my pc is in my living room not the bedroom but its nice to have. just hope music app now works as i really like the look of it and useing zune now just feels old school (shame they droped the zune line would of been good to see an update on the player and had everything work together)
ps love the choice of phone the titan rocks \m/

Question before installing Windows 8?

1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

For question 1, yes, this is what I did.
For question 2 I don't know.

SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
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yes you can. the installer will give you options on what you want to keep
no. you must create a restore image on an external hard drive if you want to return back to windows 7

In-place upgrades are possible and are technically a supported scenario, but they are a *terrible* idea. They are, at best, going to save you a bit of time reinstalling apps (even though the install process itself takes vastly longer when doing an in-place upgrade, so I'm not sure it's a net positive even there). At worst, you'll end up with an unbootable system due to an unexpected driver incompatibility or something silly like that, lose all your data, and need to reformat and do a clean install anyhow. The usual result is somewhere in between; your system will be less stable than it should be, will take longer to boot up, some programs won't work after the upgrade and will need to be reinstalled anyhow, and at some point in the near-ish future (six months to two years) your systme will develop odd misbehaviors that will require you to effectively reinstall WIndows anyhow (that's what the refresh and reset operations in Win8 basically do, with or without preserving your files, respectively).
Also, if you opt for a clean install, you'll know you have a backup of all your data. That's pretty valuable. You can (and should; the bit about the upgrade failing and you losing access to your data was not a joke) make such a backup anyhow, of course.
As for being able to revert to Win7, the only way that'll happen is if you back up the whole system drive. Restore points don't work between major versions; if you do an in-place upgrade, you won't be able to downgrade it again short of restoring a backup or wiping the system and instally Win7 cleanly.

I did it
SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
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Click to collapse
After doing an in place Upgrade on my box i hope my story will help you.
I simply couldn't resist the offer MS made 'til 28 Feb 2013 so i downloaded Windows 8 64 Bit to my Laptop and after the Upgrade Assistant gave me a green light and promised except for the ATI drivers everything should work out i started the upgrade. After roughly 4 h the Upgrade process was done and windows 8 ready. Even the mentioned ATI driver was not a big problem because after the initial upgrade windows 8 asked if i would care to update it and did so.
Windows 8 is creating a Backup of your current installation so there is a restore point you can use. I did not try it out and after 2 weeks i deleted the restore Point.
So far so good. The installation wasn't that complicated. Unfortunately after that i could no longer install any Program or update. The reason behind it was that the upgrade process is exchanging something in the users Registry and after that the security checks simply denied me access to the file System. Even booting in recovery mode did not help (just like my Android GBook tablet at the moment ) . Only way to cope this was to create a new User with Admin Rights as a replacement. Doing so one of my document Folders got lost in transition. I still have no Idea what happened but after moving a Folder from MyDocuments user old to MyDocouments user new the Move process suddenly died and the files where gone. I did have a Backup so luckily it was just annoying but still gave me a rough time figuring out what happened.
You will probably be bothered to reinstall some applications (MS Apps will work) and the new interface is something to get used to for a Lot of Developers.
My System turned quiet a bit slower because of the ever running index service etc. Indexing is even denying write access to newly created files quite regularly and you will have to wait for it to finish before file operations are possible. You definitively have to tune system services if you want a system that is not slowing you down.
My final advice after 2 Month using Win8?
Don't do an in place upgrade it if you don't have to. Windows 7 was working perfectly for me. After 15 years of IT Support under my belly (even thou most of it doing Back-office Servers) Win7 felt like an OS that wasn't in the way and did a great Job. Windows 8 will get in your way via slowing down your Box and making steps that were natural in win7 more cumbersome.
Especially System settings are more or less hidden (because the average "dummy" user needs to be protected from it :silly: ) and are hard to find. Turning every entry in your Start menu into an Metro Icon does not Help either. It's just messing up your start screen. Be Prepared to switch between metro and "normal Desktop" quite often if you are still using "older" programs. Even if you don't want to your Program will decide for you .
I think a fresh install helps in that category because it might make it easier to "switch your mind" to the new environment. It will also be a chance to clean your System of old and rarely used programs.
If you still want your Upgrade make sure your Backups are up to date and Working!
Hope this is helping you out.
Cheers
Lanman99

Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade.
Four hours to upgrade (when a clean install takes 15 minutes): check
Permissions messed up afterward: check
Performace actually decreased (even though a clean install of Win8 performs better than a clean install of Win7 on the same hardware): check
Data loss (your Documents folder): check
As for your points re: Win8 itself: first of all, if your only experience with it is based on that abomination of an in-place upgraded system, assume everything you "know" about the OS from that experience is wrong. I've been running Win8 for ~1.5 years now (counting betas) and have never had the problem with indexing service (which runs low-priority and doesn't take system resources that you're trying to use for anything else), data loss from library or folder movement, or any of the other problems you mention. I did try an upgrade install during the betas, but the result was trash - a bunch of features didn't work afterward, and the performance was worse than it should be - and the response when I reported the issues was "do a clean install". Upgrade installs are only *technically* supported; even MS thinks they're a bad idea.
Judging on OS based on an upgrade install is like judging a car model based on taking that car's interior and body, but replacing the engine, transmission, suspension, electronics, wheels, brakes, lights, and wipers with random junk you pulled out of a wrecking yard (without checking the original model) and beat into shape with a hammer and a hacksaw. Sure, it *looks* like it's easier (cheaper than making the needed money to buy the actual model) than buying a new car, and if you're really careful and moderately lucky, it will actually run pretty well and not strand you in the middle of nowhere or burst into flame or something awkward like that. It's going to be a complete pain in the ass to maintain though, you'll end up having spent a ton of time hacking it together in the first place and then keeping it running until you quickly pass the point where it would have been easier to just get the new car, and in the meantime it will never perform as well as it "should" have. Putting a bunch of junk car parts in a BMW body does not mean you're driving a BMW.
By the way, those problems that I didn't have? That even includes the "switching back and forth" thing, because I found it was a lot better to just not use Metro at all. I treat the Start screen the same way I treat the Start menu on older NT6.x versions: an irrelevant graphical thing that pops up for the half second where I type the name of a program I want, in between when I hit the Windows key and when I hit Enter. I pinned my most-used apps to the taskbar. My typical admin stuff is on the Win+X (or right-click the Start button - yes, there is one, it's just hidden until you hover over it) menu. Outlook is a better mail client than Mail, and better scheduling tool than Calendar. Pidgin is better than Messenger. If for some reason I want to log into Facebook, I have this thing called a "web browser" (which runs in a window, with all its features instead of a crippled subset of them, thank you very much).
Metro Skype is good enough I do use it sometimes, although I snap it to one edge of my (very wide) screen so it doesn't get in the way; I've considered going back to desktop Skype anyhow. Desktop SkyDrive is much better than the Metro one. Same for desktop OneNote vs. the Metro version. The only Metro apps I actually use much are games, and frankly I don't use Metro games that often on my main (desktop) Win8 box; why would I, when I could play Eve Online or Civilization / Alpha Centauri instead?

I only had the problem of a few games and visual studio needing a reinstall on my upgraded system. Not one of the other issues mentioned.
Oh, also had an issue where before the update it said my GPU drivers wouldn't work post upgrade, they did and as soon as I upgraded I was able to obtain native windows 8 drivers anyway. My integrated GPU was fine.

GoodDayToDie said:
Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade....
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Abomination is probably a bit harsh (i'm still working on that monster )
Don't get me wrong. I don't wan't to bash windows 8 for the sake of it. I just don't see a urgent reason to advise SysAdmNj to upgrade. Especially not an in-place upgrade. And i definitely agree that a clean install is the first choice to move to any new OS.
BUT surprisingly i pulled the same stunt growing from Vista to win7 on my Dell Studio 17 which went great. I had 1 issue with the on-board camera but other than that my notebook was running better, faster and more stable afterward and that was the primary reason why i tried it again with win7 to win8 on my lenovo. Still i got it working and at least it gave me valuable support experience and it's a dirty job but somebody...
Reason to try Metro is also based on my Idea to stay ahead of my Users. I think Metrostyle systems will be heading in our direction if we want it or not. It is to tempting for the marketing branches of our major OS vendors so i keep tinkering with it.
That "Back and Forth" simply lies in the program designs. It will just take me some time to get used to it, sorry but i'm old ).
Some of my apps (namely Hotmail which became Outlook) are seamlessly integrated and as you already mentioned much better than before most others are still written for WinXP/Vista/7 and will bring you back to familiar havens. Internet is done by a heavily customized FF portable, so carefree covered.
My main critique boils down to System settings Metro style. A lot of settings, tools and tweaks which grew into supporters hands look castrated to fit the average users need. That really is annoying. It looks i have to brush up on system scripting skills to support my colleagues. Thought i could get away with less typing these days :crying:.
...and yes switching a self patched '74 Beetle engine in a 2013 Beamer won't make a Racing machine but it looks funny trying to get away with it .

Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7
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Yes if you are on your desktop. Starting up Metro won't give you that. You have to switch to your Desktop first. Or activate "All Apps" and sidescroll to Systemsettings. Besides it is not integrated which leads you again to your Desktop.
So System Settings = getting around Metro. The Settings Metro offers are still limited. Which IMHO is not a good way to do it. Yes it sounds nitpicking but if MS decides to get completely rid of our beloved Desktop, Metro is all you get.
But as i said, maybe just getting old...

On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.
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In windows 8.2, there is supposed to be the Pc settings with more options like power options in it. This will not get rid of the desktop control panel though
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Maybe I should have created a poll. Should I stay on windows 7 or upgrade?
I dont know now. I'm not crazy about windows 8. I'm fine on windows 7. Thing is most laptops come with windows 8 so I thought I might as well start familiarizing myself more. Although to be honest I think even if I was to buy a new laptop with windows 8, I would just clone that image and just restore a windows 7 image with all my apps etc. That or just change the hdd with mines
But thanks for all the insights.

Win8 does perform better, and has some cool new features (built-in ISO mounting, for example, is long overdue). If you do what I do, and mostly treat it as Win7 that has one more slot on the Taskbar than normal, it's a great OS. There are some things that mildly bug me, like the removal of window border transparency, but that's hardly a big deal.
The Win+X menu (or right-click on Start) can be done from anywhere; you don't have to be on the Desktop already. Selecting the Control Panel from that menu will open up the Desktop-mode Control Panel whether you're in the Desktop, the Start screen, or some Metro app.

I actually prefer the lack of border transparency and the flat colours etc, guess that's just personal preference though.

If you have a spare box--techies should always have a spare box--pop Win8 onto it to play around. If you're happy with Win7, I'd stick with that for your production box(es).
It's OK to skip Win8 (and 8.1). It's a transition rev, and biz won't migrate to it. There'll be more changes when Win9 rolls out next year, so even if you're set on sticking with Win, you can save half the work by jumping on Win9 then, because sure as heck you won't stay with 8.x when 9 is out.
Basically, if it's fun, then do it. If it's work, then don't.

There hasn't even been so much as a hint from Microsoft that there will be a windows 9 any time soon. I think we're in for a few more years of updates yet, windows 8 can still be "fixed".

Microsft stated - over a year ago, I think - that Windows was moving to an annual, smaller-releases cycle. Win8 and WP8 were the first OSed released after that announcement, with "Blue" for Windows and Windows Phone expected later this year (about one year after the W*8 releases). WP9-related job postings, referencing that OS by name/number, have already been posted on LinkedIn as well.

Cobwebs growing on Windows phone 8 blogs and forums

At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.

Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!

Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine

DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
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Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.

sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
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Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back

^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way

Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.

People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow

nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.

The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.

Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.

I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.

The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!

Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.

I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?

DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).

Should I update to Windows 8.1 or should I wait

Sent from my GT-S7562 using xda app-developers app

I would say NO. The compatibility issue is a freak! I still can't believe updating to 8.1 makes lot of my apps incompatible. Big disappoint.

Just read the torrent comments when you have a question like this in your mind A lot of complaints so far.

Dude wait. Trust me, its the worst move i've made

>I still can't believe updating to 8.1 makes lot of my apps incompatible.
Do you mean Metro apps, or "legacy"? I don't venture much into the Metro side, but regular Win apps worked OK for me. The only bother is that some apps can't change their settings unless in Admin mode, which has its own quirks. For example, the file mgr I use (Explorer++) loses drag/drop if run in Admin mode.
Other than the minor nits, I like 8.1, even though I don't do "touch" on PCs, and stay mostly on the desktop. It's basically an updated 7, and a more polished 8. For those with 8, upgrading to 8.1 is a no-brainer...uh, assuming the in-place upgrade works well (I clean-installed 8.1). For those using 7, upgrade only if there's something you want in 8.1, like, say, Miracast. Or, of course, if you buy a new PC. I bought four Lenovo PCs recently, which I clean-installed 8.1 on. Built-in driver support was almost perfect, aside from a SD card reader. If I go back to 7, there would be a slew of drivers I'd have to install.
For users preferring "legacy" Win, the biggest pain with 8.x is that you have to reconfig to grab back file associations from Metro apps, and of course to install a replacement shell. The Metro side does have some benies, eg apps for social media, etc. But it is still very raw, and has a long way to go before being competitive. Despite moves to standardize on the tile UI, I think we'll see major changes to it, if it manages to last long enough to be a contender. With the upheaval MS is undergoing, there's no guarantee of anything. Which makes it more interesting, no?

e.mote said:
>I still can't believe updating to 8.1 makes lot of my apps incompatible.
Do you mean Metro apps, or "legacy"? I don't venture much into the Metro side, but regular Win apps worked OK for me. The only bother is that some apps can't change their settings unless in Admin mode, which has its own quirks. For example, the file mgr I use (Explorer++) loses drag/drop if run in Admin mode.
Other than the minor nits, I like 8.1, even though I don't do "touch" on PCs, and stay mostly on the desktop. It's basically an updated 7, and a more polished 8. For those with 8, upgrading to 8.1 is a no-brainer...uh, assuming the in-place upgrade works well (I clean-installed 8.1). For those using 7, upgrade only if there's something you want in 8.1, like, say, Miracast. Or, of course, if you buy a new PC. I bought four Lenovo PCs recently, which I clean-installed 8.1 on. Built-in driver support was almost perfect, aside from a SD card reader. If I go back to 7, there would be a slew of drivers I'd have to install.
For users preferring "legacy" Win, the biggest pain with 8.x is that you have to reconfig to grab back file associations from Metro apps, and of course to install a replacement shell. The Metro side does have some benies, eg apps for social media, etc. But it is still very raw, and has a long way to go before being competitive. Despite moves to standardize on the tile UI, I think we'll see major changes to it, if it manages to last long enough to be a contender. With the upheaval MS is undergoing, there's no guarantee of anything. Which makes it more interesting, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not sure what u mean by legacy, im not having the prob with metro apps, but desktop app (.exe). After the upgrade, many of my important apps bcome incompatible, I want to do a refresh, but the fact that refreshing will clean up my desktop apps prevented me from doing so, leaving me in depress. And this is only the first prob im having with 8.1, theres still a lot more than this.

I have had no problems since upgrading to 8.1 on release day on a 4 year old laptop. Nothing has been incompatible except for some hardware that just needed new drivers.

I also have had no issues on win 8.1 on my main gaming rig or my tab (asus full win 8.1)
only real issue I had was the time it took to update on my tablet. XD
Pvy.

Lenovo Yoga Book; Windows 10 version vs. Android version?

As a 15 year old; music, reading & learning, art/designing/detailing, photo editing, gaming, and YouTube passionate, which would be better for me: Lenovo Yoga Book's Android version or Windows 10 version? Also, will the Android version get Updates later? i.e., it's in Marshmallow, will it update it's version later? Thank you in advance for replying!

No security updates since October 2016. Still on version 6.0.1.
I see no longevity in this device. I feel like I've wasted $500 on a product that was a quick sell for lenovo and then it gets pushed back onto it's legacy line and we never hear from them again regarding updates. I'm hugely disappointed in my purchase and in Lenovo.
There are apps on the marketplace that require Android 7 and we're stuck on 6.0. What does that tell you? Not one developer has stepped forward to create ROMS or even a 100% legitimate unlock and root process. I wish I had kept my Pixel C and returned this.

Hey,
unlike Skullpuck, I have Windows version and I am quite happy with the device. Now don't get me wrong, he/she makes some valid points; I agree with them and that is why I chose Windows version. Nowadays for android device is indeed necessary to have community around it, to support it because developer usually end its support after about 1 year. IMHO, this isn't really the case with Windows. You do not have to worry about root, unlocking, updates to OS, custom ROMS... etc. and none of these, and more, issues really applies to Windows.
I am definitely not praising Microsoft here, in my opinion they made Windows 10 a mess, but for this device, and what it is designed to be, the Windows version of Yoga might be better - IMHO of course.
If you are interested, here is my opinion on the device as an artist tool.

I've also got the Windows version and I really love it for drawing (mainly using Mischief) and pixel art (using Pyxel edit). After two obsoleted Android tablets I picked the Windows Yoga to avoid being stuck on an outdated OS version and to get access to more robust software. So far I don't regret the choice.

I did choose the Android version because it has better performance, batterylife last longer, apps like Netflix run smoother. the android version has more options to finetune the halo keyboard and realpen. plus you can take notes on paper with your device off and still your notes get digitized. drawing with Artrage and Artflow is amazing. Artrage is included, the full version. I don't mind the delay in a security patch. Windows is every single day less secure than Android even if you run those memory and processingtime eating security suits who are up-to-date. plus you can play some pretty amazing games with good framerates etc. on the Android Book. I play NFS titles and Pro Pinball Timeshock on the highest settings. I was in the position to test the both Yoga Book versions and for me Android was the winner. The halo keyboard types nice as well, I took a short time to get used to and now I type blind just as on any other keyboard.

Martend said:
I did choose the Android version because it has better performance, batterylife last longer, apps like Netflix run smoother. the android version has more options to finetune the halo keyboard and realpen. plus you can take notes on paper with your device off and still your notes get digitized. drawing with Artrage and Artflow is amazing. Artrage is included, the full version. I don't mind the delay in a security patch. Windows is every single day less secure than Android even if you run those memory and processingtime eating security suits who are up-to-date. plus you can play some pretty amazing games with good framerates etc. on the Android Book. I play NFS titles and Pro Pinball Timeshock on the highest settings. I was in the position to test the both Yoga Book versions and for me Android was the winner. The halo keyboard types nice as well, I took a short time to get used to and now I type blind just as on any other keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. Tested both versions and android works better in my opinion. Running windows wiht some backgroud processes drained my battery life a lot. Waking up from standy not always worked for me, many times I had to force off the device with long pressing the power button. Some workarounds are available with the advice install some older drivers, disabling update xx and so on. I wanted a device running out of the box without waiting for lenovo shipping new updates (of course is the same thing with android updates but working better out of the box). Windows updates are out frequently and is quite right, but the problems are related most on buggy drivers. I experienced the same thing mentioned by @Martend and I follow his arguments.

While both version has the same hardware, we are going to talk about the OS load weight. Definitely Android is much more lighter than windows 10, you'll have smoother experience with it, load of app to choose especially games and entertainment app. The downside about Android is until now it has limited capability for multi-tasking compared to windows, also if you need to use it for light work using desktop PC application, there are limited choice for Android. Also in Android, the OS update will depend so much to the device manufacturer support, unless you are familiar and able to load a custom ROM, still it will depend to the community behind it. In my personal experience, lenovo developer support is so terrible at this factor. I've been using a number of lenovo device ranged from Smartphone, Tablet and Laptop, Lenovo always leave their software update support early, leaving the device obsolete or bugged only after a couple of year or less. While this also happen to windows version, but it will only affect to the driver update, while windows update still going to your device came from the microsoft.
So for me, Windows version is much more fit my need. I really hope the device has more usage years longer because it less depend to the lenovo support.

So which one to pick??
. I am planning to buy YB WIN. But
1. If both Android and win versions have same configuration, can't we format and switch Windows to Android??
2. Can windows version run Microsoft office tools at its best, like excel macros, mail merge etc easily
3. Do they both(win and android) have sim slot with 4g connectivity
Can some one help

Amit2017 said:
So which one to pick??
. I am planning to buy YB WIN. But
1. If both Android and win versions have same configuration, can't we format and switch Windows to Android??
2. Can windows version run Microsoft office tools at its best, like excel macros, mail merge etc easily
3. Do they both(win and android) have sim slot with 4g connectivity
Can some one help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey.
for your questions:
1. Doing "format and switch" would not have any point in my opinion, but dual boot is theoretically possible (and therefore "format and switch" as well) and there are threads here that discuss this thou at this moment it has not been done.
2. Yes, thou creating presentations might stagger a bit (depending on the content) - I specifically use OpenOffice.
3. Yes, but there are also WiFi only variants so be sure to read product description before buying.

Amit2017 said:
So which one to pick??
. I am planning to buy YB WIN. But
1. If both Android and win versions have same configuration, can't we format and switch Windows to Android??
2. Can windows version run Microsoft office tools at its best, like excel macros, mail merge etc easily
3. Do they both(win and android) have sim slot with 4g connectivity
Can some one help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. The hardware is identical, but boot config is so different. In windows ver, OS loaded via UEFI (BIOS is the former name) while Android depend on what it's called bootloader. This UEFI and Bootloader is cannot easily modified because its hardwrited on ROM.
2. my office suite works great. all function work normally. but don't expect like working on high performance laptop. it's actually like working with netbook
3. if you need one with LTE sim capability you should inquiry the YB1-X91L for windows version and YB1-X90L for android. While the wifi only version is ended with F, YB1-X91F and YB1-X90F