Database Users

Actually using Windows 8 on a desktop or non touch laptop

First off this is in no way trolling or bashing; but I have installed Windows 8 on both on one of my laptops and PC but I just noticed that I really don't use them that much. It seems that it just doesn't catch my attention and is too much of a bother to try to use the mouse and keyboard to navigate in between the Metro UI and desktop. Now I'm perrty sure that it is awesome on a touch device but I have not tried it yet.
How many people on here actually use Windows 8 on a non touch device on a daily basis? With out getting bored with it?

I am using Windows8 as my second system for daily use. I have installed it on a small partition, so I have Windows 7 and 8 in my pc.
I do not find it to be boring or difficult to use. It is true the first times you are a bit messed, but once you get used to Metro gestures it is easy and really quick to use Windows.
I am not sure how you are trying to navigate between Metro and Desktop or how are you using Windows. But you do not need to access Desktop to open programs. Once you install any program it appears in Metro, just click in the tile and you go directly to Desktop with the program launched. It is that easy.
I hope this can be helpful to you

i've also been using win 8 on my notebook and my desktop since the first preview. haven't had any issues navigating. of course its a little confusing using it for the first time, but after about a day its simple.
Haven't gotten bored of it either. for being previews, they run pretty darn smooth.

i tried using it on my laptop but i got rid of it in favor of ubuntu 11.10
it felt like trying to use android on my laptop(just overly confusing and a pain to use the GUI)
i do however believe windows 8 will kill off the laptop/netbook and all other tablets successfully, just take a x64 based tablet like the acer w500 or an arm based tablet like the transformer prime and put windows 8 on them, you will get a tablet when you are playing, and laptop when you're working

I use (and have used) Windows 8 on my non touch NetBook since Developers preview and love it it's also my primary operating system.
Sent from my LG-LS670 using XDA

I've actually been using it for a while and really find it akward to use on a regular desktop. I am waiting to try and possibly buy it on tablet. I have however tried the Transformer Prime running android and I have to say I was impressed by it; hope Windows 8 is as good on a tablet because I am not an andorid or ipad person.

sinister1 said:
I've actually been using it for a while and really find it akward to use on a regular desktop. I am waiting to try and possibly buy it on tablet. I have however tried the Transformer Prime running android and I have to say I was impressed by it; hope Windows 8 is as good on a tablet because I am not an andorid or ipad person.
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You should buy any windows 7 tab and put windows 8 on it, my plan was to get the Acer w500 tablet and install windows 8 on it. I actually got rid of my android tablet so I can use windows 8, don't get me wrong android is nice on my phone but on a tablet its kind of useless.

There won't be Windows 8 for ARM at stores for buying, it will be installed in tablets only. Keep this in minde

Well, there is a good reason that you aren't using the Metro UI. It was designed specifically for tablets and it adds absolutely nothing to a regular PC. There are not too hard to see that anything except the most basic tasks requires more actions to complete compared to the regular desktop.
Microsoft needs to wake up and realize that they can't have the same UI for touch and mouse.

droidjosh said:
i've also been using win 8 on my notebook and my desktop since the first preview. haven't had any issues navigating. of course its a little confusing using it for the first time, but after about a day its simple.
Haven't gotten bored of it either. for being previews, they run pretty darn smooth.
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Ditto here. I have been using it as my daily OS since the consumer preview to give it a good test and have updated to the release preview. Once you get used to it it just comes naturally. I also have a Samsung Slate 7 I bought to try it on and am using it daily so I have been using both the touch and nontouch enabled. The skydrive integration and the synching of favorites etc is working fantastic.

I've been playing around with Win8 on my own desktop for a while. It's not too hard to get used to, but I've always had a question - what's the point?

Sir. Haxalot said:
Well, there is a good reason that you aren't using the Metro UI. It was designed specifically for tablets and it adds absolutely nothing to a regular PC. There are not too hard to see that anything except the most basic tasks requires more actions to complete compared to the regular desktop.
Microsoft needs to wake up and realize that they can't have the same UI for touch and mouse.
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Wrong, it brings realtime notifications to the start menu AND the desktop experience as well as reducing the time it takes to find applications in existing start menu program groups. But you strike me as one of those people who took a look at it and said "It's for tablets, will not use" and then never learned how to use it.
Not only that, but you need to wake up and realize that they are the developers, They CAN have the same UI for both mouse and touch and the current implementation as seen in Release Preview works very well for that purpose.
Sent from my LG-LS670 using XDA

I'm using it on my primary PC (dual screen, quad core, 4GB RAM, Geforce GTX460) on a daily basis. I use it with Photoshop/Illustrator/Chrome/Word/Wordpress, as well as various news readers.
It took a few hours to get through the learning curve (back during the Consumer Preview, not since Release Preview--that was easy to adapt to) but I'm confident that I'm actually MORE productive now, and am able to stay on top of things better thanks to deeply integrated features like the People Hub and so on.
Obviously, there's still some ground to cover--the OS is still essentially beta, after all--but all in all I believe it's the most impressive consumer OS I've ever used.
On the other side of things, I'm also beta testing the server in a simple file server role with a dozen users. Nobody's using it as a primary storage device yet, but I have a handful of titles setup to monitor services, alerts, etc, and I really like it. This is likely to make for a GREAT server OS once the major vendors apply themselves to creating Live Tiles that present pertinent information to an administrator upon login .
Microsoft is in a distant lead when it comes to advanced OS design compared to, for example, Apple
sinister1 said:
First off this is in no way trolling or bashing; but I have installed Windows 8 on both on one of my laptops and PC but I just noticed that I really don't use them that much. It seems that it just doesn't catch my attention and is too much of a bother to try to use the mouse and keyboard to navigate in between the Metro UI and desktop. Now I'm perrty sure that it is awesome on a touch device but I have not tried it yet.
How many people on here actually use Windows 8 on a non touch device on a daily basis? With out getting bored with it?
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Click to collapse

The more I use it the more I can foresee MS sales decline. Yes I have gotten use to some features and so on but I honestly don't see this in a corporate or business environment. But to be fair I haven't tested it on a touch device but non the less this has no business on a non-touch device at all. I don't get it; MS sees the reviews that people post on line and also see that the sales of Windows Phone are moving at a snail's pace and they force a touch screen OS to non touch devices

I've been using windows 8 for some time now, on desktop with no touch (only mouse and keyboard) and i can safely say that everyone who says metro is bad for mouse is smoking good grass and i would like some too...
the extra gestures are only required when you want to shut down your PC only. That's it. the only instance in which you have to do more actions than you would on a regular windows 7.
other than that, the advantages are so blatant it's a wonder nobody mentions them
this is the fastest, most efficient operating system i have ever seen. Does windows 7 load for you in 4 seconds? because that's how long it takes for windows 8 to load on my desktop: 4 seconds. and it is not a state of the ark i7 machine, but an old generation core 2 duo.
The resource management is also oustanding. tasks are launched and executed almost like in a real time system (i sometimes forget windows 8 is not a real time system).
And if you get used to using your keyboard, you will save many of the "unnecessary" mouse gestures.
yes, it takes a few moments to get used to it, but once you've configured everything properly, windows 8 is miles ahead of any other system.

I love windows 8 but...

I have the rtm of pro activated with a legit key for vlsc and when you consider this is supposed to be finished I have found it almost more buggy than release preview. It took ages to get AMD Catalyst installed and it required me to go into device manager to install the driver manually first and that's the windows 8 software. That could be excused its not MS its just beta software. The thing I don't get though is my music plays in media player yet the new metro music app bombs out about 1-2 seconds in on any track and I have tested a few now. The email is almost impossible to work out how to add new email accounts and you can still only have metro apps on one screen and that includes the start menu. This means that even though I have 3 screens if I want to put my email to one side I then have to use that screen for any other work im doing. Yes the multio monitor support has some cool tweeks ie the toolbar on all 3 screens (eyefinity did this anyway) it still ties me to one screen working arg. Also for some reason my ocz agility 3 hard drive only score 6.9 booo something wrong there. Rant over! There is many little bugs crashes but I love the os overall so don't want to look to negative but I was expecting more from rtm.

lumpaywk said:
I have the rtm of pro activated with a legit key for vlsc and when you consider this is supposed to be finished I have found it almost more buggy than release preview. It took ages to get AMD Catalyst installed and it required me to go into device manager to install the driver manually first and that's the windows 8 software. That could be excused its not MS its just beta software. The thing I don't get though is my music plays in media player yet the new metro music app bombs out about 1-2 seconds in on any track and I have tested a few now. The email is almost impossible to work out how to add new email accounts and you can still only have metro apps on one screen and that includes the start menu. This means that even though I have 3 screens if I want to put my email to one side I then have to use that screen for any other work im doing. Yes the multio monitor support has some cool tweeks ie the toolbar on all 3 screens (eyefinity did this anyway) it still ties me to one screen working arg. Also for some reason my ocz agility 3 hard drive only score 6.9 booo something wrong there. Rant over! There is many little bugs crashes but I love the os overall so don't want to look to negative but I was expecting more from rtm.
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you cant really hold MS to blame for shoddy driver support on an unreleased product from manufactures who haven't released final drivers (graphics and HDD) the multi monitor thing is a bit of a pain, and the email accounts couldn't be simpler, Media player bombing out sounds like a pretty serious issue and I suspect yet another driver related issue given that its not widespread and so far as I can tell, user specific, which is likely hardware specific
What is lost upon Mac users is that Windows must support a near limitless set of hardware combos, the mere fact it works on most computers is a huge achievement, unfortunately it can have its problems, I have audio issues as well, I very much doubt my sound card manufacture will get new drivers out and will more than likely force me to change hardware, that's a pain, but it is also good business sense

Don't worry bro. I have the same problems. Release Preview is buggy as all hell.
My WMP won't even open without instantly freezing. I've tried both 32 and 64-bit versions. They do open separately without having to use hacks, which I will give it to MS, it's about time.
The mail app barely opens. You have to restart the whole computer to get it working again.
W8 HATES Google Chrome browser. Constantly locking up. Google needs to get it together with that one. I've always hated IE, but since it's 64-bit native, it seems to perform quite nicely. Just need to find some sort of extension to block ads and I'd be good to go. They seem to have made quite the number of improvements to it since last I used it.
Menu options such as "Print" and "delete" have disappeared from the PDF app. They were present in the Consumer and Developers previews.
I have an HP Presario DV7-6165us Notebook, and believe it or not, I think the graphics work better with W8 built-in drivers than the AMD Catalyst ones I later decided to install. It was the same story when I used CP and DP. All the built-in drivers seem to have better performance. Especially the Wifi ones. Bluetooth stock drivers even run everything I need and connect my devices flawlessly, but when I install drivers from HP designed for W7 64-bit, we have problems.
Normal, 3rd party applications freeze on a regular basis. Can't blame MS for that. It's the devs of the applications we have to complain to in order to get them to develop compatibility with W8.

I personally haven't had any compatibility issues with my software, and I had already ironed out a way to install my modded graphics drivers in CP and RP. Chrome works great. Bear in mind I'm running the x86 version as oppose to the x64 one. Overall it runs even better than the previews and the only let down for me was the lack of new features from preview to rtm.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app

I feel really stupid in the fact that I accidentally did an upgrade install. *facepalm*
Did a custom after "refreshing" the OS, which was a nightmare to complete anyways... but now that's it's pretty much stock, everything works again. XD

dazza9075 said:
you cant really hold MS to blame for shoddy driver support on an unreleased product from manufactures who haven't released final drivers (graphics and HDD) the multi monitor thing is a bit of a pain, and the email accounts couldn't be simpler, Media player bombing out sounds like a pretty serious issue and I suspect yet another driver related issue given that its not widespread and so far as I can tell, user specific, which is likely hardware specific
What is lost upon Mac users is that Windows must support a near limitless set of hardware combos, the mere fact it works on most computers is a huge achievement, unfortunately it can have its problems, I have audio issues as well, I very much doubt my sound card manufacture will get new drivers out and will more than likely force me to change hardware, that's a pain, but it is also good business sense
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Ahhhhh, yes, the "Mac hardware is easy" fable. I love this one. I would type more, but apple patented something I'm doing on my Android phone, so I'll be arrested any moment...

Most of my issues are driver based and so not down to MS directly. My gripe is that this stuff was working in the preview so whatever changes MS made has now brocken almost half of the drivers that did work. Getting my Catalyst to work was a pain but it now does though it took me to manually install the driver then install the software. I will swap out my Asrock motherboard for a sabertooth r2 but i cant see many people wanting to make such changes.
My main MS gripe is the multi monitor support after they made such a big deal about it and it does not do the most basic of functions. this is not an early build driver issue this is a problem with the OS. Plus its one that cant be fixed with a link on the taskbar like the lack of start button. TBH im wandaring what AMD has up its sleaves for eyefinity and how they can get around hot corners(at the mo i turn off outside of games windows+p). Another issue is the music app, this is a bug, i dont know how widespread and once again will be down to some 3rd party but there is nothing that any normal user would not have and media player works so its not down to mp3 drivers or currupt files etc.
As for Macs they have tons of issues themselves and the new OS hardly works on anything. Apple is miles behind and its just thanks to a great marketing dept and the easy peer presure of the modern word that they have become so huge.

Apparently the amd v9 driver works better than the 1 designed for RP

ohgood said:
Ahhhhh, yes, the "Mac hardware is easy" fable. I love this one. I would type more, but apple patented something I'm doing on my Android phone, so I'll be arrested any moment...
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no one said it was easy as such, but if you design an OS around a piece of hardware then it will (you would hope) have been run through the grinder a lot more. Until this last decade trying to get most 3rd party hardware to run on a mac was a pain in the arse, made much easier with the move to x86 I might add but still, its not a fable, unless Apples testing programs are as crap as its customer service!

lumpaywk said:
I have the rtm of pro activated with a legit key for vlsc and when you consider this is supposed to be finished I have found it almost more buggy than release preview. It took ages to get AMD Catalyst installed and it required me to go into device manager to install the driver manually first and that's the windows 8 software. That could be excused its not MS its just beta software. The thing I don't get though is my music plays in media player yet the new metro music app bombs out about 1-2 seconds in on any track and I have tested a few now. The email is almost impossible to work out how to add new email accounts and you can still only have metro apps on one screen and that includes the start menu. This means that even though I have 3 screens if I want to put my email to one side I then have to use that screen for any other work im doing. Yes the multio monitor support has some cool tweeks ie the toolbar on all 3 screens (eyefinity did this anyway) it still ties me to one screen working arg. Also for some reason my ocz agility 3 hard drive only score 6.9 booo something wrong there. Rant over! There is many little bugs crashes but I love the os overall so don't want to look to negative but I was expecting more from rtm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have problems to with amd proc and.ati video drivers
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium

If it's an ati mobility card then Google search mobility modder, that's how I got mine to work.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app

ArchangelRenzoku said:
W8 HATES Google Chrome browser. Constantly locking up. Google needs to get it together with that one. I've always hated IE, but since it's 64-bit native, it seems to perform quite nicely. Just need to find some sort of extension to block ads and I'd be good to go. They seem to have made quite the number of improvements to it since last I used it.
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http://www.bing.com/search?q=tracking+protection+lists&src=IE-TopResult&FORM=IE10TR

Well, that all is the reason why RTM is getting available today to Technet and MSDN subscribers and only gets released to regular consumers in October. Developers at hardware companies need to adapt some of their drivers and many things they have to do can only be done now that Microsoft has finished development.
Most of those issues will likely be resolved before Windows 8 hits the streets. I guess most people will get it with a new PC anyway and at least there I expect it to work without problems.

StevieBallz said:
Well, that all is the reason why RTM is getting available today to Technet and MSDN subscribers and only gets released to regular consumers in October. Developers at hardware companies need to adapt some of their drivers and many things they have to do can only be done now that Microsoft has finished development.
Most of those issues will likely be resolved before Windows 8 hits the streets. I guess most people will get it with a new PC anyway and at least there I expect it to work without problems.
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yes just hours now from my Technet download The metro screen issue is still bugging me and i dont see that getting fixed untill blue/windows 8.5. I dont think MS even sees it as an issue yet. My Graphics are working like a charm now bar it seems my fan runs between 80-100% all the time even with low temps so i dont see it being long before thats fixed. Asus has there official drivers out already (gutted now i chose asrock over them but you live and learn). I hope meia center goes live today aswell, i dont really use it much now as my pc is in my living room not the bedroom but its nice to have. just hope music app now works as i really like the look of it and useing zune now just feels old school (shame they droped the zune line would of been good to see an update on the player and had everything work together)
ps love the choice of phone the titan rocks \m/

Question before installing Windows 8?

1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

For question 1, yes, this is what I did.
For question 2 I don't know.

SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you can. the installer will give you options on what you want to keep
no. you must create a restore image on an external hard drive if you want to return back to windows 7

In-place upgrades are possible and are technically a supported scenario, but they are a *terrible* idea. They are, at best, going to save you a bit of time reinstalling apps (even though the install process itself takes vastly longer when doing an in-place upgrade, so I'm not sure it's a net positive even there). At worst, you'll end up with an unbootable system due to an unexpected driver incompatibility or something silly like that, lose all your data, and need to reformat and do a clean install anyhow. The usual result is somewhere in between; your system will be less stable than it should be, will take longer to boot up, some programs won't work after the upgrade and will need to be reinstalled anyhow, and at some point in the near-ish future (six months to two years) your systme will develop odd misbehaviors that will require you to effectively reinstall WIndows anyhow (that's what the refresh and reset operations in Win8 basically do, with or without preserving your files, respectively).
Also, if you opt for a clean install, you'll know you have a backup of all your data. That's pretty valuable. You can (and should; the bit about the upgrade failing and you losing access to your data was not a joke) make such a backup anyhow, of course.
As for being able to revert to Win7, the only way that'll happen is if you back up the whole system drive. Restore points don't work between major versions; if you do an in-place upgrade, you won't be able to downgrade it again short of restoring a backup or wiping the system and instally Win7 cleanly.

I did it
SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After doing an in place Upgrade on my box i hope my story will help you.
I simply couldn't resist the offer MS made 'til 28 Feb 2013 so i downloaded Windows 8 64 Bit to my Laptop and after the Upgrade Assistant gave me a green light and promised except for the ATI drivers everything should work out i started the upgrade. After roughly 4 h the Upgrade process was done and windows 8 ready. Even the mentioned ATI driver was not a big problem because after the initial upgrade windows 8 asked if i would care to update it and did so.
Windows 8 is creating a Backup of your current installation so there is a restore point you can use. I did not try it out and after 2 weeks i deleted the restore Point.
So far so good. The installation wasn't that complicated. Unfortunately after that i could no longer install any Program or update. The reason behind it was that the upgrade process is exchanging something in the users Registry and after that the security checks simply denied me access to the file System. Even booting in recovery mode did not help (just like my Android GBook tablet at the moment ) . Only way to cope this was to create a new User with Admin Rights as a replacement. Doing so one of my document Folders got lost in transition. I still have no Idea what happened but after moving a Folder from MyDocuments user old to MyDocouments user new the Move process suddenly died and the files where gone. I did have a Backup so luckily it was just annoying but still gave me a rough time figuring out what happened.
You will probably be bothered to reinstall some applications (MS Apps will work) and the new interface is something to get used to for a Lot of Developers.
My System turned quiet a bit slower because of the ever running index service etc. Indexing is even denying write access to newly created files quite regularly and you will have to wait for it to finish before file operations are possible. You definitively have to tune system services if you want a system that is not slowing you down.
My final advice after 2 Month using Win8?
Don't do an in place upgrade it if you don't have to. Windows 7 was working perfectly for me. After 15 years of IT Support under my belly (even thou most of it doing Back-office Servers) Win7 felt like an OS that wasn't in the way and did a great Job. Windows 8 will get in your way via slowing down your Box and making steps that were natural in win7 more cumbersome.
Especially System settings are more or less hidden (because the average "dummy" user needs to be protected from it :silly: ) and are hard to find. Turning every entry in your Start menu into an Metro Icon does not Help either. It's just messing up your start screen. Be Prepared to switch between metro and "normal Desktop" quite often if you are still using "older" programs. Even if you don't want to your Program will decide for you .
I think a fresh install helps in that category because it might make it easier to "switch your mind" to the new environment. It will also be a chance to clean your System of old and rarely used programs.
If you still want your Upgrade make sure your Backups are up to date and Working!
Hope this is helping you out.
Cheers
Lanman99

Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade.
Four hours to upgrade (when a clean install takes 15 minutes): check
Permissions messed up afterward: check
Performace actually decreased (even though a clean install of Win8 performs better than a clean install of Win7 on the same hardware): check
Data loss (your Documents folder): check
As for your points re: Win8 itself: first of all, if your only experience with it is based on that abomination of an in-place upgraded system, assume everything you "know" about the OS from that experience is wrong. I've been running Win8 for ~1.5 years now (counting betas) and have never had the problem with indexing service (which runs low-priority and doesn't take system resources that you're trying to use for anything else), data loss from library or folder movement, or any of the other problems you mention. I did try an upgrade install during the betas, but the result was trash - a bunch of features didn't work afterward, and the performance was worse than it should be - and the response when I reported the issues was "do a clean install". Upgrade installs are only *technically* supported; even MS thinks they're a bad idea.
Judging on OS based on an upgrade install is like judging a car model based on taking that car's interior and body, but replacing the engine, transmission, suspension, electronics, wheels, brakes, lights, and wipers with random junk you pulled out of a wrecking yard (without checking the original model) and beat into shape with a hammer and a hacksaw. Sure, it *looks* like it's easier (cheaper than making the needed money to buy the actual model) than buying a new car, and if you're really careful and moderately lucky, it will actually run pretty well and not strand you in the middle of nowhere or burst into flame or something awkward like that. It's going to be a complete pain in the ass to maintain though, you'll end up having spent a ton of time hacking it together in the first place and then keeping it running until you quickly pass the point where it would have been easier to just get the new car, and in the meantime it will never perform as well as it "should" have. Putting a bunch of junk car parts in a BMW body does not mean you're driving a BMW.
By the way, those problems that I didn't have? That even includes the "switching back and forth" thing, because I found it was a lot better to just not use Metro at all. I treat the Start screen the same way I treat the Start menu on older NT6.x versions: an irrelevant graphical thing that pops up for the half second where I type the name of a program I want, in between when I hit the Windows key and when I hit Enter. I pinned my most-used apps to the taskbar. My typical admin stuff is on the Win+X (or right-click the Start button - yes, there is one, it's just hidden until you hover over it) menu. Outlook is a better mail client than Mail, and better scheduling tool than Calendar. Pidgin is better than Messenger. If for some reason I want to log into Facebook, I have this thing called a "web browser" (which runs in a window, with all its features instead of a crippled subset of them, thank you very much).
Metro Skype is good enough I do use it sometimes, although I snap it to one edge of my (very wide) screen so it doesn't get in the way; I've considered going back to desktop Skype anyhow. Desktop SkyDrive is much better than the Metro one. Same for desktop OneNote vs. the Metro version. The only Metro apps I actually use much are games, and frankly I don't use Metro games that often on my main (desktop) Win8 box; why would I, when I could play Eve Online or Civilization / Alpha Centauri instead?

I only had the problem of a few games and visual studio needing a reinstall on my upgraded system. Not one of the other issues mentioned.
Oh, also had an issue where before the update it said my GPU drivers wouldn't work post upgrade, they did and as soon as I upgraded I was able to obtain native windows 8 drivers anyway. My integrated GPU was fine.

GoodDayToDie said:
Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade....
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Abomination is probably a bit harsh (i'm still working on that monster )
Don't get me wrong. I don't wan't to bash windows 8 for the sake of it. I just don't see a urgent reason to advise SysAdmNj to upgrade. Especially not an in-place upgrade. And i definitely agree that a clean install is the first choice to move to any new OS.
BUT surprisingly i pulled the same stunt growing from Vista to win7 on my Dell Studio 17 which went great. I had 1 issue with the on-board camera but other than that my notebook was running better, faster and more stable afterward and that was the primary reason why i tried it again with win7 to win8 on my lenovo. Still i got it working and at least it gave me valuable support experience and it's a dirty job but somebody...
Reason to try Metro is also based on my Idea to stay ahead of my Users. I think Metrostyle systems will be heading in our direction if we want it or not. It is to tempting for the marketing branches of our major OS vendors so i keep tinkering with it.
That "Back and Forth" simply lies in the program designs. It will just take me some time to get used to it, sorry but i'm old ).
Some of my apps (namely Hotmail which became Outlook) are seamlessly integrated and as you already mentioned much better than before most others are still written for WinXP/Vista/7 and will bring you back to familiar havens. Internet is done by a heavily customized FF portable, so carefree covered.
My main critique boils down to System settings Metro style. A lot of settings, tools and tweaks which grew into supporters hands look castrated to fit the average users need. That really is annoying. It looks i have to brush up on system scripting skills to support my colleagues. Thought i could get away with less typing these days :crying:.
...and yes switching a self patched '74 Beetle engine in a 2013 Beamer won't make a Racing machine but it looks funny trying to get away with it .

Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7
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Click to collapse
Yes if you are on your desktop. Starting up Metro won't give you that. You have to switch to your Desktop first. Or activate "All Apps" and sidescroll to Systemsettings. Besides it is not integrated which leads you again to your Desktop.
So System Settings = getting around Metro. The Settings Metro offers are still limited. Which IMHO is not a good way to do it. Yes it sounds nitpicking but if MS decides to get completely rid of our beloved Desktop, Metro is all you get.
But as i said, maybe just getting old...

On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In windows 8.2, there is supposed to be the Pc settings with more options like power options in it. This will not get rid of the desktop control panel though
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Maybe I should have created a poll. Should I stay on windows 7 or upgrade?
I dont know now. I'm not crazy about windows 8. I'm fine on windows 7. Thing is most laptops come with windows 8 so I thought I might as well start familiarizing myself more. Although to be honest I think even if I was to buy a new laptop with windows 8, I would just clone that image and just restore a windows 7 image with all my apps etc. That or just change the hdd with mines
But thanks for all the insights.

Win8 does perform better, and has some cool new features (built-in ISO mounting, for example, is long overdue). If you do what I do, and mostly treat it as Win7 that has one more slot on the Taskbar than normal, it's a great OS. There are some things that mildly bug me, like the removal of window border transparency, but that's hardly a big deal.
The Win+X menu (or right-click on Start) can be done from anywhere; you don't have to be on the Desktop already. Selecting the Control Panel from that menu will open up the Desktop-mode Control Panel whether you're in the Desktop, the Start screen, or some Metro app.

I actually prefer the lack of border transparency and the flat colours etc, guess that's just personal preference though.

If you have a spare box--techies should always have a spare box--pop Win8 onto it to play around. If you're happy with Win7, I'd stick with that for your production box(es).
It's OK to skip Win8 (and 8.1). It's a transition rev, and biz won't migrate to it. There'll be more changes when Win9 rolls out next year, so even if you're set on sticking with Win, you can save half the work by jumping on Win9 then, because sure as heck you won't stay with 8.x when 9 is out.
Basically, if it's fun, then do it. If it's work, then don't.

There hasn't even been so much as a hint from Microsoft that there will be a windows 9 any time soon. I think we're in for a few more years of updates yet, windows 8 can still be "fixed".

Microsft stated - over a year ago, I think - that Windows was moving to an annual, smaller-releases cycle. Win8 and WP8 were the first OSed released after that announcement, with "Blue" for Windows and Windows Phone expected later this year (about one year after the W*8 releases). WP9-related job postings, referencing that OS by name/number, have already been posted on LinkedIn as well.

[HOWTO] Stop Automatic Updates And Other Microsoft Nonsense in Windows 10

*deleted*

Just what I was looking for thank you Who needs updates anyhow

FYI, if you disable the Windows Update service you will lose the ability to use the Windows Store.

I didn't know that. But I don't really use the windows store.
[Moto E 2nd Gen 3G running CyanogenMod 12.1]

@feherneoh
First Microsoft has no right to disable hardware. What if someone makes a game controller at home(which is possible thanks to 3D printing) and just because it isn't authorized by MS it stops working.
Not everyone can afford fancy peripherals and have to use lesser known manufacturers.
Also during the updates MS collects some amount of usage data which most people don't want to provide. Remember the backdoor happily left open by MS? Enjoy being spied on?
What about people with limited internet data? I don't want MS pushing stuff I don't want on my PC. Security updates are important so it is good practice to keep receiving them. But using a third party firewall and antivirus will allow to you keep your security up to date without the other stuff MS bundles in with the updates.
[Moto E 2nd Gen 3G running CyanogenMod 12.1]

@feherneoh
Thanks for the info on the hardware. I was under the impression that hardware from manufacturers not recognized by MS would stop working.
And I did upgrade to Win10 on the third or fourth day.
The problem with data is that you can no longer choose what updates to install. So I'm forced to download ALL updates that I may not want. For example "Get Skype".
With third party security suites you get only new virus definitions, etc. Also automatically checking for and downloading updates hogs bandwidth. I barely get my promised 512kBps downspeed and now I have Windows Update slowing down all my devices on Wi-Fi.
After following the method above, you can always start the process again and install updates at your convince. Only the enterprise edition lets you delay updates. Now you can do it on your home edition as well.
[Moto E 2nd Gen 3G running CyanogenMod 12.1]

Man windows 10 sounds promising, but I hate how they force things on you.. I don't want a Windows store, I don't want Xbox, I want to modify windows to my liking, Cortana would be great on mobile, not at my desktop PC. I bought RAM to handle my applications, but my OS..
I appreciate them trying to stop piracy, but that seems so intrusive, what if I but DRM free games? Does it detect Windows store games only?
Man until they get their **** together I'll stick with Linux /win 7
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

feherneoh said:
I have no idea what your problem with RAM is... I used XP, 7, 8, 8.1, 10 on the same notebook with 2GB of RAM, and the only one that used less RAM than Win10 is XP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh really, it takes less? I had so many issues when I tried running Windows 8/8.1 on my old PC, only had 4GB of RAM, the OS itself seemed to take 1.8 of my RAM, perhaps it was some harddrive issue, I just switched to Linux Mint and then it ran smooth. Figured it was the OS, never looked too much into that. I know Vista was worse than XP and the newer the OS the more memory consuming it was, 8/8.1 being the most consuming. I'd assumed Win10 was going to be better than 8 but worse than 7.
ah well.

There is SO much rubbish on the internet about W10 'privacy' problems, little is really true.
OS updates are a GOOD thing, why do you want to disable them? No one has yet given a truly good reason for doing so. Its mostly paranoia. I find it funny that for the most part those moaning about Windows updates are those crying out for Android updates, even though Android updates usually introduce a whole boatload of bugs and problems!
Windows has only 1 mechanism for disabling, or scanning anything, the Defender and malware detection software. Defender is designed to look for cracks, hacks and keygens (as is most AV software). If it finds them it will remove them and that may break the pirated software. It does so because a lot of those cracks carry malware and viruses.
It wont disable your hardware because it randomly decides it hates it, it does so because its fake, dangerous, or infringing. It wont disable your cheap games controller as long as its a legally sold product from a reputable source. If you buy from a known manufacturer there should be no problem. Buying from a nameless Chinese manufacturer is always a risk, especially cheap USB memory sticks which often carry viruses and hacked firmwares.

Nah I'm gonna keep it off anyways. I can't afford all that bandwidth being hogged. When Google Fiber comes to my country then I'll sleep good.
Anyways when you want to get updates just start the service again!
Windows is going to be constantly updated now with little or no chance of going back to old versions. Its better to be more informed on what changes the updates brings than automatically installing them.
The basic thing here is that people don't want Microsoft dictating how we use our OS.
[Moto E 2nd Gen 3G running CyanogenMod 12.1]

Anyways I was hoping this forum would help us share other OS tweaks to getting the most our of Win10. Like of you notice a change that's not for the better (in your opinion) you can share how to fix it.

AqdhdZwty said:
Nah I'm gonna keep it off anyways. I can't afford all that bandwidth being hogged. When Google Fiber comes to my country then I'll sleep good.
Anyways when you want to get updates just start the service again!
Windows is going to be constantly updated now with little or no chance of going back to old versions. Its better to be more informed on what changes the updates brings than automatically installing them.
The basic thing here is that people don't want Microsoft dictating how we use our OS.
[Moto E 2nd Gen 3G running CyanogenMod 12.1]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the problem with limited data allowances etc, but thats why there is a setting for metered connections.
As for it being 'your' OS, its not its Microsofts OS, want your own OS, make your own Linux Build.

@ChrisM75
Yeah but since I own a hardware tied/retail licence its up to me how to use my OS within the EULA set my MS. I shouldn't be forced to update my OS if I don't want the changes it brings. Moreover at the cost of limited data.
[Moto E 2nd Gen 3G running CyanogenMod 12.1]

Thats just your opinion, its not the actual situation. If you agree with the EULA (which if you install W10 then you do) then you have to do what they say, if you dont then you have one choice, dont use the OS.

@ChrisM75
Incorrect. The EULA says nothing about disabling updates.
If that was the case then it would violate the EULA to use the OS without an internet connection.
OS updates are a good thing.
Its just that MS forces you install them ALL including completely useless things like Get Skype and Get Office which are basically just advertisements.
[Moto E 2nd Gen 3G running CyanogenMod 12.1]

Greetings Everyone;
Among everything being said, there's more (or way more " Dark Microsoft Abuses" - I do consider so. Callmit speculation if you
prefer).
No disrespect for any of you nor to Microsoft... As Windows was my Favourite OS since v3.1 - Even MS-Dos)...
I rather don't use Windows 10 at all (Problem Fixed!).
People should consider keeping their privacy Safe.
I disagree a little with most of that anti-piracy protection. And see no reasons for the "Hardware" Part. It's just like saying: "We Own You!".
If that "Untrusted Hardware" is true... You cannot build your own Hardware. Wich doesn't make any sense.
Well... In any case if you feel like being a slave, monopolised, morganized, controlled, etc isn't good for you... Then I guess one should stop supporting such things.
Finally: Honesty and Freedom is one thing. Being a puppet in a greedy world is another.
Of course it's just my opinion. You are free to do as "they" tell you...

A lot has changed since I posted this originally.
Windows 10 now can uninstall your software during major updates(compatibility issues) and I've already seen people who have lost office licences because of this.
It started automatically installing itself over old versions without consent and if you lost power then say goodbye to all your data.
Its pretty sad. I was so hyped for win10 but now have rolled back to 8.1.
I've been on windows since windows 2000 to ME then vista and now 8.1. So I'm a dedicated user, but not a fanboy. If a company does shady stuff don't stick up for them man.

feherneoh said:
The only thing I have seen that it has ever "uninstalled" (Nope, just did not migrate it) was Avast
About the stupidity: The update keeps EVERY SINGLE FILE even if it fails, unless the partition itself is destroyed, but that can happen any time when power randomly goes out.
If you cannot find something after update, go and check it in Windows.old, it will be there, be it a file, an "uninstalled" application, a license key stored in registry, or anything else.
Stop being stupid. Read, don't blame. Don't sue MS for things they did not do. Sue them for the things they DID
---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 AM ----------
I cannot understand how you people still cannot get that untrusted HW part.....
It's not about custom devices, it's about clones, those identify themselves as the original piece of hardware
You can build your own hardware, just use an unique HWID, not one already in use
Build a controller, but don't set it to emulate XBOX controller, just use it as a standard HID device, or something
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gretings;
Oh.. Ok, maybe i got it the wrong way then.
I was thinking way ahead, and probably missed out some info on the way.
My idea behind it was: not only custom hardware, but also 2nd hand (maybe stolen) hardware, and harware "clones" (i.e: WiFi Cloned MAC).
For stolen hardware it would make some sense that every piece of hardware would have their ID registered to prevent piracy or theft, yet if someone buys used Hardware (let's say: on Ebay); there's just no way to verify its origin.
Furtherwards..
I decided to upgrade my own System to Windows10 (32 Bit) on a 64 Bit Machine.
Honestly i'm not happy with it.
Those Auto (Hidden) Updates are really terrible..
I'm sure that there is a way to stop & control them.
(Besides Disconnecting the Internet Completely).
About Tthe Privacy related options: so far; those have been a pain to set up properly, and i believe i haven't checked everything. I'll have to dig even deeper.
Aditionally (apart from this thread topic): My System heats up considerably; the Start Menu is really bugged. I have to press "50" times to open it.. Wich is annoying. It feels like the system is trying to prevent click mistakes... But it requires at least 4 or 5 clicks to open it.
I thought it could be some delay, but doesn't seem to be the case.
Overall: Windows 10 was meant for
Performance... but it is kinda slow.
I thing i will Downgrade to the best Windows version ever done (v6.x a.k.a Windows 7").

Now that there's little time left for the free update, how many of you guys have updated? I rolled back 3 months after the initial update, but is it worth it now. Like improved.
Sent from my ONE A2003 using XDA-Developers mobile app

I'm running build 14342 and it is pretty smooth for me, plus I don't have to install the ram hog skype just for a few friends who only use that
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lenovo Yoga Book; Windows 10 version vs. Android version?

As a 15 year old; music, reading & learning, art/designing/detailing, photo editing, gaming, and YouTube passionate, which would be better for me: Lenovo Yoga Book's Android version or Windows 10 version? Also, will the Android version get Updates later? i.e., it's in Marshmallow, will it update it's version later? Thank you in advance for replying!

No security updates since October 2016. Still on version 6.0.1.
I see no longevity in this device. I feel like I've wasted $500 on a product that was a quick sell for lenovo and then it gets pushed back onto it's legacy line and we never hear from them again regarding updates. I'm hugely disappointed in my purchase and in Lenovo.
There are apps on the marketplace that require Android 7 and we're stuck on 6.0. What does that tell you? Not one developer has stepped forward to create ROMS or even a 100% legitimate unlock and root process. I wish I had kept my Pixel C and returned this.

Hey,
unlike Skullpuck, I have Windows version and I am quite happy with the device. Now don't get me wrong, he/she makes some valid points; I agree with them and that is why I chose Windows version. Nowadays for android device is indeed necessary to have community around it, to support it because developer usually end its support after about 1 year. IMHO, this isn't really the case with Windows. You do not have to worry about root, unlocking, updates to OS, custom ROMS... etc. and none of these, and more, issues really applies to Windows.
I am definitely not praising Microsoft here, in my opinion they made Windows 10 a mess, but for this device, and what it is designed to be, the Windows version of Yoga might be better - IMHO of course.
If you are interested, here is my opinion on the device as an artist tool.

I've also got the Windows version and I really love it for drawing (mainly using Mischief) and pixel art (using Pyxel edit). After two obsoleted Android tablets I picked the Windows Yoga to avoid being stuck on an outdated OS version and to get access to more robust software. So far I don't regret the choice.

I did choose the Android version because it has better performance, batterylife last longer, apps like Netflix run smoother. the android version has more options to finetune the halo keyboard and realpen. plus you can take notes on paper with your device off and still your notes get digitized. drawing with Artrage and Artflow is amazing. Artrage is included, the full version. I don't mind the delay in a security patch. Windows is every single day less secure than Android even if you run those memory and processingtime eating security suits who are up-to-date. plus you can play some pretty amazing games with good framerates etc. on the Android Book. I play NFS titles and Pro Pinball Timeshock on the highest settings. I was in the position to test the both Yoga Book versions and for me Android was the winner. The halo keyboard types nice as well, I took a short time to get used to and now I type blind just as on any other keyboard.

Martend said:
I did choose the Android version because it has better performance, batterylife last longer, apps like Netflix run smoother. the android version has more options to finetune the halo keyboard and realpen. plus you can take notes on paper with your device off and still your notes get digitized. drawing with Artrage and Artflow is amazing. Artrage is included, the full version. I don't mind the delay in a security patch. Windows is every single day less secure than Android even if you run those memory and processingtime eating security suits who are up-to-date. plus you can play some pretty amazing games with good framerates etc. on the Android Book. I play NFS titles and Pro Pinball Timeshock on the highest settings. I was in the position to test the both Yoga Book versions and for me Android was the winner. The halo keyboard types nice as well, I took a short time to get used to and now I type blind just as on any other keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. Tested both versions and android works better in my opinion. Running windows wiht some backgroud processes drained my battery life a lot. Waking up from standy not always worked for me, many times I had to force off the device with long pressing the power button. Some workarounds are available with the advice install some older drivers, disabling update xx and so on. I wanted a device running out of the box without waiting for lenovo shipping new updates (of course is the same thing with android updates but working better out of the box). Windows updates are out frequently and is quite right, but the problems are related most on buggy drivers. I experienced the same thing mentioned by @Martend and I follow his arguments.

While both version has the same hardware, we are going to talk about the OS load weight. Definitely Android is much more lighter than windows 10, you'll have smoother experience with it, load of app to choose especially games and entertainment app. The downside about Android is until now it has limited capability for multi-tasking compared to windows, also if you need to use it for light work using desktop PC application, there are limited choice for Android. Also in Android, the OS update will depend so much to the device manufacturer support, unless you are familiar and able to load a custom ROM, still it will depend to the community behind it. In my personal experience, lenovo developer support is so terrible at this factor. I've been using a number of lenovo device ranged from Smartphone, Tablet and Laptop, Lenovo always leave their software update support early, leaving the device obsolete or bugged only after a couple of year or less. While this also happen to windows version, but it will only affect to the driver update, while windows update still going to your device came from the microsoft.
So for me, Windows version is much more fit my need. I really hope the device has more usage years longer because it less depend to the lenovo support.

So which one to pick??
. I am planning to buy YB WIN. But
1. If both Android and win versions have same configuration, can't we format and switch Windows to Android??
2. Can windows version run Microsoft office tools at its best, like excel macros, mail merge etc easily
3. Do they both(win and android) have sim slot with 4g connectivity
Can some one help

Amit2017 said:
So which one to pick??
. I am planning to buy YB WIN. But
1. If both Android and win versions have same configuration, can't we format and switch Windows to Android??
2. Can windows version run Microsoft office tools at its best, like excel macros, mail merge etc easily
3. Do they both(win and android) have sim slot with 4g connectivity
Can some one help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey.
for your questions:
1. Doing "format and switch" would not have any point in my opinion, but dual boot is theoretically possible (and therefore "format and switch" as well) and there are threads here that discuss this thou at this moment it has not been done.
2. Yes, thou creating presentations might stagger a bit (depending on the content) - I specifically use OpenOffice.
3. Yes, but there are also WiFi only variants so be sure to read product description before buying.

Amit2017 said:
So which one to pick??
. I am planning to buy YB WIN. But
1. If both Android and win versions have same configuration, can't we format and switch Windows to Android??
2. Can windows version run Microsoft office tools at its best, like excel macros, mail merge etc easily
3. Do they both(win and android) have sim slot with 4g connectivity
Can some one help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. The hardware is identical, but boot config is so different. In windows ver, OS loaded via UEFI (BIOS is the former name) while Android depend on what it's called bootloader. This UEFI and Bootloader is cannot easily modified because its hardwrited on ROM.
2. my office suite works great. all function work normally. but don't expect like working on high performance laptop. it's actually like working with netbook
3. if you need one with LTE sim capability you should inquiry the YB1-X91L for windows version and YB1-X90L for android. While the wifi only version is ended with F, YB1-X91F and YB1-X90F