Database Users

Z1s Camera settings (guide?)

Per request in another thread I am here to talk a little.about how to operate this camera in manual mode. I've seen complaints about how.it.performs in auto so hopefully what you see in here will make you switch to manual for your shots.
Let me start by saying you won't get dslr type quality out of this thing but the faults the camera does have from my observations, can be fixed in post easily. Now this is just my style and personal opinion, but I've never had a camera phone that took images that I couldn't make better with a little.bit of post editing. Hell even my professional dslr pictures get the editing treatment.
In my real first experience today with the phone I found that it normally takes decent images. The pictures lack a ton of contrast in my opinion and that was what I found myself adjusting the most. Colors are fairly good except I took one macro of a flower in my garden yesterday that was so saturated all the details in the petals were blown out. It was an overcast day which is the ideal lighting situation for a photographer but for some reason the pink flower turned out neon red in the image. I didn't have that happen today, which was a sunny day, so I'll blame that on a fluke shot or maybe the conditions confused the software for one reason or another.
As far as the camera interface, more importantly, knowing where the settings are so you can access them quickly when trying to take the shot. I am happy with what is offered in manual, the only thing I wished I had was an option for shutter speed but I've only had 1 phone that ever had that option so I'm not complaining.
//////Xperia Z1s//////

As far as the camera interface, more importantly, knowing where the settings are so you can access them quickly when trying to take the shot. I am happy with what is offered in manual, the only thing I wished I had was an option for shutter speed but I've only had 1 phone that ever had that option so I'm not complaining.
Iso, shutter speed, and aperture are all related and affect one another. I haven't looked at specs but I'm assuming we are working with a fixed aperture and we can't change the shutter speed so I'll just talk briefly about iso.
Iso is going to affect how sensitive the sensor is to light around you. In other words you would use low ISO when there is plenty of natural or ambient light around, and a high iso for a night shot or for low ambient light like maybe dim house light or candle light. I haven't tested this phone in bad lighting conditions and I haven't browsed through the picture thread so maybe others can chime in on how it does at night and in low light situations. I had an HTC one and people praise that phone for its picture taking in low light but I found that images were too noisy if you tried to sharpen them afterwards imo.
//////Xperia Z1s//////

I never use the auto mode and I suggest no one do. Even though you are somewhat limited in a camera phone you still want to be able to take the photo you want not the photo the phone wants you to take. You may want to blowout those highlights in the background or you may want to underexpose the image. It all depends on your style and preference. This is why manual mode is the ideal why to shoot. Now you might say for street photography or situations where you just have time to get a quick shot shoot in auto. Which is fine, capturing the picture is what's important not the settings in that situation. But even then I would still say adjust the settings beforehand according to the environment you know you're going to be in so you can shoot freely without worrying about adjustments. I remind you everything I've said thus far is all my opinion. So let me move on to the individual settings and what they do.
Resolution
No need to explain this or self timer or smile shutter. I think we all know what those do.
Focus modes
Single auto is just that. A single focus area in the middle of the viewfinder.I don't like this because it hinders composition.
Multi
This simply places multiple focus areas on the screen. Haven't used this yet. I assume it does its best trying to find the areas you want be in focus I guess for group shots or something.
Face detection is self explanatory
Touch
This is my ideal setting. You simple tap the area in the viewfinder that you want to be in focus. Works well because when you use interesting composition you can focus on any area of the scene instead of a fixed place in the center like in single mode
//////Xperia Z1s//////

Object track
Used this today but didn't snap the shot. It did well following a kid jumping around in a bouncy castle and that was through some netting on the side of the castle. Didn't settle on the still net it tracked the girl back and forth Several times.
Iso I already explained
Metering
Center - this will meter the exposure for what ever is in the middle of the scene you are shooting. I don't see why you would use this setting and I don't know why it's on by default. Maybe your subject isn't in the middle, maybe you're using interesting composition and your subject is off center.
Average - this should.be your default. This takes into consideration the lighting in the entire scene and exposes accordingly.
Spot - advanced metering when you want to expose for a certain place in the scene. For example, if you're shooting into the sun and your subject is back lit you could use spot metering to expose for the subjects face. There face will be properly exposed and the background light will probably be blown out which sometimes makes for an interesting photo.
Image stabilizer is what it is. When this is on you can not adjust iso
EV
This is on the fly exposure. If your scene is too dark or too bright in the viewfinder you can adjust this up and down to compensate for the lighting situation. I believe you can adjust in half stops and full fstop increments.
Cloudy / shade - picture of clouds
These are white balance settings. Cloudy is used for overcast cloudy days or when your subject is in shade. It compensates for the cool blues you get in these conditions and will warm up the photo a bit after its taken.
Sun
Opposite of.the previous setting. It will cool the image a bit when the sun is shining and your photos are too warm.
Fluorescent
This will adjust the color balance when you're taking pics under this type of lighting indoors somewhere
Incandescent
Does the same except for incandescent bulbs such as house lamps etc
Now these aren't set in stone. Rules are made to be broken. You may get a cool effect by using fluorescent setting in the shade or under the sun. It's all about experimenting and creativity and getting the look you like.
I know I've been rambling and typed up an essay but I will finish with some images and some before and after shots. Thanks for reading if I made a mistake or if there are questions feel free to ask.
You can follow me on ig @whentheFstops
Before (how the image came out the camera)
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After
Before
After
Before
After
Before
After
//////Xperia Z1s//////

Btw...it was sunny today so my iso stayed on 100 with touch focus. The only thing I changed was the white balance depending on if the subject was in the sun or the shade
//////Xperia Z1s//////

great guide

Well done!
This guide is very useful!
Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk

Thanks for the guide. In terms of post processing on the phone, what app can you recomnend?
Sent from my C6903 using xda premium

Here's another perspective to when people complain about image quality and write comments about the "crappy camera" on the Z1:
"For professional pictures I use my DSLR"
-> You will never carry your DSLR around everywhere 100% of the time even on a holiday. "The best camera is the one you have with you" etc.
"I don't have time to change settings, the moment will pass by the time I'm done"
-> Changing the few important settings (ISO, EV and metering) take but some seconds. A bowl of fruit, a mountain in the background, your duckface or that kid peeing over the fence won't disappear or change that quickly. Unless you are taking a picture of a moving car or train, you won't miss a few seconds.
"The camera software on other phones is much better than the Z1"
-> Yes and they also artificially reduse noise by redusing quality.
"I just want to take a quick snap without bothering with any settings"
-> If you are going to take a picture anyway, do you really have to use an excuse to NOT try to make it a good one?
@twoeleven99 - thanks a lot for the guide. I do have one idea to improve the guide even more with the help of others in this little community. How about sharing some good pictures with the most important settings to give an idea what kind of manual settings (what ISO, what EV compensation, what meterin) to use in different circumstances? Such as a picture in bright sunlight , a picture when it's overcast, various low light scenarios etc. What I mean is that because the classic "a picture says more than a thousand words" holds true - we could use pictures to demonstrate how to think about the camera settings. So next time someone goes out on a cloudy day and wants to take a picture, they could just refer to "ah right, I saw a picture in similar circumstances and it had ISO 200, EV +2/3 and metering average."

Great guide!
I see that it's a matter of taste with the settings. I too use "wrong" WB settings to get what I want.
I like playing with the camera on manual, trying everything to capture a great photo. I'm not a photographer, but I like to make the best out of my phone. I have a planned project in future to show the capabilities of the camera.
I want to make good HDR photos and I was amazed to see that this phone can capture a great photo (HDR edit after, not the HDR from the phone) which can be edited later. I was surprised to see low noise after HDR. But, it's only when you have enough light for the photo, otherwise, you will get too much noise.
I'm in middle of exams, I will post more photos, before after.
Thanks again for the guide. Really appreciate it.

how do you get the after shots? they look so good! do you use a program to add contrast and such?

ikkeeuu said:
how do you get the after shots? they look so good! do you use a program to add contrast and such?
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Click to collapse
After reading the thread, I was under the impression that the before shots were auto and the after shots were with manual settings. No post processing applied.

Recommend the OP use flickr to upload photos as it makes it easier to review exifs.

thats a great guide ... i will settle down untill you play with scenes .. as every scene got its shutter speed and iso ... starting from 1/10000sec till 0.8Sec

gtizon said:
Thanks for the guide. In terms of post processing on the phone, what app can you recomnend?
Sent from my C6903 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a ton of apps but I usually end up in one of the photoshop apps, snapseed, or vsco
//////Xperia Z1s//////

akselic said:
Here's another perspective to when people complain about image quality and write comments about the "crappy camera" on the Z1:
"For professional pictures I use my DSLR"
-> You will never carry your DSLR around everywhere 100% of the time even on a holiday. "The best camera is the one you have with you" etc.
"I don't have time to change settings, the moment will pass by the time I'm done"
-> Changing the few important settings (ISO, EV and metering) take but some seconds. A bowl of fruit, a mountain in the background, your duckface or that kid peeing over the fence won't disappear or change that quickly. Unless you are taking a picture of a moving car or train, you won't miss a few seconds.
"The camera software on other phones is much better than the Z1"
-> Yes and they also artificially reduse noise by redusing quality.
"I just want to take a quick snap without bothering with any settings"
-> If you are going to take a picture anyway, do you really have to use an excuse to NOT try to make it a good one?
@twoeleven99 - thanks a lot for the guide. I do have one idea to improve the guide even more with the help of others in this little community. How about sharing some good pictures with the most important settings to give an idea what kind of manual settings (what ISO, what EV compensation, what meterin) to use in different circumstances? Such as a picture in bright sunlight , a picture when it's overcast, various low light scenarios etc. What I mean is that because the classic "a picture says more than a thousand words" holds true - we could use pictures to demonstrate how to think about the camera settings. So next time someone goes out on a cloudy day and wants to take a picture, they could just refer to "ah right, I saw a picture in similar circumstances and it had ISO 200, EV +2/3 and metering average."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I will do that next time I'm out and about taking random pictures.
//////Xperia Z1s//////

farfromovin said:
After reading the thread, I was under the impression that the before shots were auto and the after shots were with manual settings. No post processing applied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All before pics were taken on manual and the after is edited. You can see the after pics all have had contrast added because like I said this camera and software combination has a severe lack of it in my opinion especially under sunlight. Pictures in the shade weren't so bad.
//////Xperia Z1s//////

ashouhdy said:
thats a great guide ... i will settle down untill you play with scenes .. as every scene got its shutter speed and iso ... starting from 1/10000sec till 0.8Sec
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't know there where scene modes. Do I have to be in auto mode to see them?
//////Xperia Z1s//////

twoeleven99 said:
Didn't know there where scene modes. Do I have to be in auto mode to see them?
//////Xperia Z1s//////
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the scenes you have to be on 8MP in Manual mode. They will show up in the upper left corner right above the EV setting.

One Twelve said:
Recommend the OP use flickr to upload photos as it makes it easier to review exifs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do. I was going to open a new Flickr account today I will make a folder for xperia pics and will drop a link
//////Xperia Z1s//////

Final test - Locked vs Unlocked BL Camera (Z2)

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That's it. Now we know what really happens when you unlock the Xperia BL. The DRM (?) is responsible for the anti-noise feature in the camera.
Perhaps, everyone who's got his Z2 unlocked probably won't be able to get a new mint condition Z2 from their retailers... all I can hope is for some dev to find a way to restore that processing. Z2's camera is absolutely one of the most powerful around - it is a shame (not to say other things) that Sony actually let this happen.
Images used:
http://imgur.com/OoD3IS8 (taken by me, last night)
http://imgur.com/wzUkc0p (it was used for a review, you can find the unmarked image here: http://www.electrony.net/media/2014/03/Xperia-Z2-low-light-photo-and-4K-video-samples9.jpg)

That's what you can do with Pixlr Express (Smoothing : 3)

Honestly couldn't spot the difference!

jaffa1980 said:
Honestly couldn't spot the difference!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bionz could do it probably better, but honestly you need some glasses.

Ha ha i do?!
---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------
Ha ha oh i see now the noise in the square. Still negligible though. Take a photo of the same thing on the same settings with locked and unlocked boot loader. It could be different settings even if done with superior auto (ie night scene vs night portrait etc) and as he said in previous post just smooth with a photo editor ?

But i notice a lot of banding, even if i turned in antibanding to auto, 50 or 60Hz it won't go. Indoors btw, i think it is cz of the lights, but my dads s5 is not showing any bandings.

you take two total complete Pictures and compare them?.... great job!
If you want to compare for real get a locked phone, make the picture, unlock it and take the picture again within 5 minutes and with the same light condition!

Haldi4803 said:
you take two total complete Pictures and compare them?.... great job!
If you want to compare for real get a locked phone, make the picture, unlock it and take the picture again within 5 minutes and with the same light condition!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1

Haldi4803 said:
you take two total complete Pictures and compare them?.... great job!
If you want to compare for real get a locked phone, make the picture, unlock it and take the picture again within 5 minutes and with the same light condition!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since I am not able to get another locked phone, I can't do such test. Besides, black is black in any picture you see, is it not?
Modes, EV, ISO, etc. - all these are factors need to be put in balance when you compare pictures. However, I am comparing how the sensor works with noise. And that's really it.

rodritank said:
Since I am not able to get another locked phone, I can't do such test. Besides, black is black in any picture you see, is it not?
Modes, EV, ISO, etc. - all these are factors need to be put in balance when you compare pictures. However, I am comparing how the sensor works with noise. And that's really it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless, it's not really the fairest comparison.

This comparison is total nonsense. You're comparing two images with completely different exposure levels in an area with completely different luminance, and they were probably shot at completely different shutter speed and sensitivity to boot. Both images have been resaved and recompressed, probably multiple times, and have been rescaled by completely different factors. They've also had the EXIF information stripped, and quite possibly have been modified in other ways.
If your goal was to make the least valid comparison possible, then congratulations -- you've probably succeeded.
If you wanted to make a meaningful comparison, then sorry, this isn't it and this thread should probably be closed or deleted to stop it misleading people.
"Final test" indeed -- no testing has been done here.

knoxploration said:
This comparison is total nonsense. You're comparing two images with completely different exposure levels in an area with completely different luminance, and they were probably shot at completely different shutter speed and sensitivity to boot. Both images have been resaved and recompressed, probably multiple times, and have been rescaled by completely different factors. They've also had the EXIF information stripped, and quite possibly have been modified in other ways.
If your goal was to make the least valid comparison possible, then congratulations -- you've probably succeeded.
If you wanted to make a meaningful comparison, then sorry, this isn't it and this thread should probably be closed or deleted to stop it misleading people.
"Final test" indeed -- no testing has been done here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whoa, I can't understand why people are so mad and rude.
You are not obliged to concur with my test - however, I did not pull it out from my ass - thing you are doing when you speculate that it has been "resaved and recompressed, probably multiple times, and have been rescaled by completely different factors".
No dude, they were not. I got both photos and didn't compress them to generate artifacts. EXIF is stripped because IMGUR does that. The test is to show how it renders the noise in low light.
While I have stated this is not the best comparison test, it's the best someone could come up with until now. I'd be REALLY happy if you could prove me that my unlocked phone hasn't had loss of low light quality since I unlocked it, though.

rodritank said:
Whoa, I can't understand why people are so mad and rude.
You are not obliged to concur with my test - however, I did not pull it out from my ass - thing you are doing when you speculate that it has been "resaved and recompressed, probably multiple times, and have been rescaled by completely different factors".
No dude, they were not. I got both photos and didn't compress them to generate artifacts. EXIF is stripped because IMGUR does that. The test is to show how it renders the noise in low light.
While I have stated this is not the best comparison test, it's the best someone could come up with until now. I'd be REALLY happy if you could prove me that my unlocked phone hasn't had loss of low light quality since I unlocked it, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FYI, Imgur compresses images that are over 1MB, so your image has been compressed (unless your source image was under 1MB, which I highly doubt):
http://imgur.com/faq
Also, a better way to compare is to take two images by yourself from the same scene, at the same time. Maybe you know a friend who has a Z2 as well with his/her bootloader still locked. This is because you don't know if the other website modified the images in any way. (EXIF data can be faked very easily btw)
I'm not saying your comparison doesn't make any sense, but you could probably improve it a lot with the things I mentioned above.

rodritank said:
No dude, they were not. I got both photos and didn't compress them to generate artifacts. EXIF is stripped because IMGUR does that. The test is to show how it renders the noise in low light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, "dude", they were. You didn't shoot both photos, and you have no idea what has been done if anything to one of them. Neither photo is at a native resolution the camera supports, so both photos have been downsamples and/or cropped.
You cannot downsample or crop losslessly, so both photos have been saved using lossy compression, then recompressed and resaved again using lossy compression, at LEAST once and possibly more times.
This "comparison" is totally flawed on every single level, and the only meaningful conclusion that can be drawn from it is that "both locked and unlocked phones can take pictures". Every other conclusion you attempt to draw is utter nonsense.

B1nny said:
FYI, Imgur compresses images that are over 1MB, so your image has been compressed (unless your source image was under 1MB, which I highly doubt):
http://imgur.com/faq
Also, a better way to compare is to take two images by yourself from the same scene, at the same time. Maybe you know a friend who has a Z2 as well with his/her bootloader still locked. This is because you don't know if the other website modified the images in any way. (EXIF data can be faked very easily btw)
I'm not saying your comparison doesn't make any sense, but you could probably improve it a lot with the things I mentioned above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. Thanks for the input. Like I said, I lack of a second locked phone - so I compared the grain.
I just hope someone will make a new comparison under fair conditions then.

Random note
I saw 0 difference from bootloader unlocked or relocked
Tested with x-reality off and dithering off to remove any potential spoilers
If anyone wants i could give 2 pictures with a direct download so you can see for your self

knoxploration said:
Yes, "dude", they were. You didn't shoot both photos, and you have no idea what has been done if anything to one of them. Neither photo is at a native resolution the camera supports, so both photos have been downsamples and/or cropped.
You cannot downsample or crop losslessly, so both photos have been saved using lossy compression, then recompressed and resaved again using lossy compression, at LEAST once and possibly more times.
This "comparison" is totally flawed on every single level, and the only meaningful conclusion that can be drawn from it is that "both locked and unlocked phones can take pictures". Every other conclusion you attempt to draw is utter nonsense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first things first, I totally agree with you. Your logic is concrete and your method is scientific, I am impressed.
BUT, can you rephrase your words so that it is less intruding? Although you are the correct one, but these words might lead to keyboard war. Your words are like a dictator, which is not supposed to happen here in XDA. Perhaps if you know more than him, you can GIUDE him to enlightenment

While true that his tone might come off as a bit rude, I'd say that's partially because the OP is very bombastic when he states the following in the first post:
That's it. Now we know what really happens when you unlock the Xperia BL. The DRM (?) is responsible for the anti-noise feature in the camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which, frankly, turns out to be BS.
A "final" test of this would be taking several pictures of several different motives/scenes with the exact same settings, the exact same motive, the exact same lighting and the exact same position, first with a locked bootloader and then with an unlocked bootloader.
A time-consuming task that requires the right equipment and person doing it, which is why there's no definitive answer to this yet.

rodritank said:
Since I am not able to get another locked phone, I can't do such test. Besides, black is black in any picture you see, is it not?
Modes, EV, ISO, etc. - all these are factors need to be put in balance when you compare pictures. However, I am comparing how the sensor works with noise. And that's really it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, black is black! But... Here it comes...
The Sky is not Black! There are a lot of stars in the sky! You will not find a Black spot on this earth. Not even in a totally closed of room you could create a photo of black with your smartphone, simply because the light of your screen would reflect from the walls!
So for 'nearly' Black pictures, to compare, values like ISO, aperture and shutter speed are most important.
And as you stated before. Most people are that happy to root their new phone, they either don't care or totally forget about Foto quality and noise reduction ^^
That's why there has not been such a test before.
@Envious_Data
Relocked Bootloader with restored DRM keys? And restored Bavaria engine?

Haldi4803 said:
Yes, black is black! But... Here it comes...
The Sky is not Black! There are a lot of stars in the sky! You will not find a Black spot on this earth. Not even in a totally closed of room you could create a photo of black with your smartphone, simply because the light of your screen would reflect from the walls!
So for 'nearly' Black pictures, to compare, values like ISO, aperture and shutter speed are most important.
And as you stated before. Most people are that happy to root their new phone, they either don't care or totally forget about Foto quality and noise reduction ^^
That's why there has not been such a test before.
@Envious_Data
Relocked Bootloader with restored DRM keys? And restored Bavaria engine?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tested
Relocked bootloader
Relocked via TA restore
Relocked then TA Restore
Freinds units
Never unlocked
Unlocked bootloader
Exact same placement, about 5-10 mins apart
Im going to upload some pics from my test
Results
0 difference in image quality
No x-reality at all
Settings
Manual
Iso 400
EV 0.0
Focal forced 1.5mm,3.0mm,3.0mm,1.7mm
White balance: -1
Spot metering
2MP
HDR OFF
Ill repost when uploaded

Rear Camera Auto Smoothing Faces?

The camera is great overall, much like the S7 was and still is, however, I get a feeling Samsung's software is applying some sort of auto smoothing technique while shooting in Auto. I've noticed lately when I take a photo of someone in an environment, everything in the image is crisp with great detail accept for the person or people looking at the camera. Their skin appears a tad smooth, with no pores and less wrinkles, but the accessories they're wearing, and their clothes, are crisp with fantastic detail.
I've downloaded the stock Google camera app to test it, and in the same environment, the person's skin is how it was on the S7 camera, much more detailed and realistic. I can see pores and imperfections. What's stranger is, if the person is not looking at the camera, it's like the software doesn't recognize a face, and that person's side features like the skin has far more realistic detail as apposed to when they're looking at the camera and it becomes more smooth. I can see their freckles and pores more.
I thought for awhile my camera was back focusing and I just wasn't focused on the faces of people, thus resulting in a tad blurry face. But I kept noticing their hats and shirts, which are at the same focal distance, had fantastic detail. Taking a landscape or cityscape photo results in crisp and detailed images, but put someone at full length in the shot for a portrait, and their face is smooth as apposed to everything around them.
I have a hunch Samsung is applying auto smoothing of people's skin while shooting in auto. The Google camera app isn't doing that. If it's because they think most consumer's would appreciate smoother looking skin, well maybe ok, but that's what the selfie feature of beauty mode is for, not the rear camera.
Anyone else notice this?

I have the same problem. How can it be fixed?
JDM9499 said:
The camera is great overall, much like the S7 was and still is, however, I get a feeling Samsung's software is applying some sort of auto smoothing technique while shooting in Auto. I've noticed lately when I take a photo of someone in an environment, everything in the image is crisp with great detail accept for the person or people looking at the camera. Their skin appears a tad smooth, with no pores and less wrinkles, but the accessories they're wearing, and their clothes, are crisp with fantastic detail.
I've downloaded the stock Google camera app to test it, and in the same environment, the person's skin is how it was on the S7 camera, much more detailed and realistic. I can see pores and imperfections. What's stranger is, if the person is not looking at the camera, it's like the software doesn't recognize a face, and that person's side features like the skin has far more realistic detail as apposed to when they're looking at the camera and it becomes more smooth. I can see their freckles and pores more.
I thought for awhile my camera was back focusing and I just wasn't focused on the faces of people, thus resulting in a tad blurry face. But I kept noticing their hats and shirts, which are at the same focal distance, had fantastic detail. Taking a landscape or cityscape photo results in crisp and detailed images, but put someone at full length in the shot for a portrait, and their face is smooth as apposed to everything around them.
I have a hunch Samsung is applying auto smoothing of people's skin while shooting in auto. The Google camera app isn't doing that. If it's because they think most consumer's would appreciate smoother looking skin, well maybe ok, but that's what the selfie feature of beauty mode is for, not the rear camera.
Anyone else notice this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

renegadem4ster said:
I have the same problem. How can it be fixed?
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Click to collapse
It's definitely bizarre. Probably most consumers won't notice and if they do, don't care and maybe even some appreciate it. Again, I have no idea if this is indeed a little trick Samsung baked into the camera software, but I've stopped shooting with AUTO unless it's a landscape scene or I need the HDR mode (Samsung does a fantastic job with HDR without making it look cheesy fake).
My workflow is now I shoot in the PRO mode if my main subject is a person, and process with Snapseed or Adobe Photoshop Express. The details are crisp and awesome. AUTO mode makes the people's faces look like an oil painting while the rest of the scene is crisp with great detail. Totally bizarre!
I'd use another camera app, but the speed of shooting in RAW mode is so fast with the stock app, and if I need HDR, it's right there in the options menu rather than opening another camera app. So I'm still using the stock app, just changed my workflow.

That's very helpful, thanks. I will try that and let you know how the results are. I am coming from an S6 which does not exhibit this problem. It's a bit sad to me to see faces looking heavily over-processed. Interestingly this is something I found LG did in the past and the main reason I didn't get a G4 back in the day. Like you say it also seems quite specific to faces so I presume it's algorithmic and an attempt to prettify faces or something like you can do with selfies. It's just a pity it's not an option/flag because otherwise the camera is extremely capable, especially (I find) in dealing with difficult lighting.
JDM9499 said:
It's definitely bizarre. Probably most consumers won't notice and if they do, don't care and maybe even some appreciate it. Again, I have no idea if this is indeed a little trick Samsung baked into the camera software, but I've stopped shooting with AUTO unless it's a landscape scene or I need the HDR mode (Samsung does a fantastic job with HDR without making it look cheesy fake).
My workflow is now I shoot in the PRO mode if my main subject is a person, and process with Snapseed or Adobe Photoshop Express. The details are crisp and awesome. AUTO mode makes the people's faces look like an oil painting while the rest of the scene is crisp with great detail. Totally bizarre!
I'd use another camera app, but the speed of shooting in RAW mode is so fast with the stock app, and if I need HDR, it's right there in the options menu rather than opening another camera app. So I'm still using the stock app, just changed my workflow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------
Sorry if I can ask just two questions:
(1) Do you have a Sony or Samsung sensor? I am wondering if it's a problem specific to ISOCELL since I don't see evidence of it in many reviews
(2) What specifically do you do with Snapseed?
Thanks
JDM9499 said:
It's definitely bizarre. Probably most consumers won't notice and if they do, don't care and maybe even some appreciate it. Again, I have no idea if this is indeed a little trick Samsung baked into the camera software, but I've stopped shooting with AUTO unless it's a landscape scene or I need the HDR mode (Samsung does a fantastic job with HDR without making it look cheesy fake).
My workflow is now I shoot in the PRO mode if my main subject is a person, and process with Snapseed or Adobe Photoshop Express. The details are crisp and awesome. AUTO mode makes the people's faces look like an oil painting while the rest of the scene is crisp with great detail. Totally bizarre!
I'd use another camera app, but the speed of shooting in RAW mode is so fast with the stock app, and if I need HDR, it's right there in the options menu rather than opening another camera app. So I'm still using the stock app, just changed my workflow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

renegadem4ster said:
That's very helpful, thanks. I will try that and let you know how the results are. I am coming from an S6 which does not exhibit this problem. It's a bit sad to me to see faces looking heavily over-processed. Interestingly this is something I found LG did in the past and the main reason I didn't get a G4 back in the day. Like you say it also seems quite specific to faces so I presume it's algorithmic and an attempt to prettify faces or something like you can do with selfies. It's just a pity it's not an option/flag because otherwise the camera is extremely capable, especially (I find) in dealing with difficult lighting.
---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------
Sorry if I can ask just two questions:
(1) Do you have a Sony or Samsung sensor? I am wondering if it's a problem specific to ISOCELL since I don't see evidence of it in many reviews
(2) What specifically do you do with Snapseed?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can I find it which sensor I have?

Install Aida64 from play store (sorry I cannot link to it)
In the "Devices" section, if you have a Sony sensor it will say Sony something for Camera ID. If it's ISOCELL it will say SLSI_somethingsomething
JDM9499 said:
How can I find it which sensor I have?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

renegadem4ster said:
Install Aida64 from play store (sorry I cannot link to it)
In the "Devices" section, if you have a Sony sensor it will say Sony something for Camera ID. If it's ISOCELL it will say SLSI_somethingsomething
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the Sony sensor. And like you mentioned, there's prettyfying going on with aggressive image over-processing. I don't think it's hardware related because the RAW files are awesome. But AUTO mode definitely did not do this with my past Galaxy's (S6 & S7). In fact, the jpegs were so good I almost never shot in RAW!
I hope Samsung can scale this back on a future update. Realistic looking people is not always a bad thing.

Well it's good to know it's not the sensor type because they don't sell Sony varieties where I live. But yeah I mean in some other situations I take staggeringly good photos so I wish Samsung would just tone it down in an update or something. Otherwise I might just swap it for a Pixel/Pixel 2. It irritates me a bit but there's no real noise about it on the web.
JDM9499 said:
I have the Sony sensor. And like you mentioned, there's prettyfying going on with aggressive image over-processing. I don't think it's hardware related because the RAW files are awesome. But AUTO mode definitely did not do this with my past Galaxy's (S6 & S7). In fact, the jpegs were so good I almost never shot in RAW!
I hope Samsung can scale this back on a future update. Realistic looking people is not always a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

renegadem4ster said:
Well it's good to know it's not the sensor type because they don't sell Sony varieties where I live. But yeah I mean in some other situations I take staggeringly good photos so I wish Samsung would just tone it down in an update or something. Otherwise I might just swap it for a Pixel/Pixel 2. It irritates me a bit but there's no real noise about it on the web.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"...but there's no real noise about it on the web."
I think because a majority of consumers honestly don't care if people's facial details are 'prettified', and honestly may actually appreciate it. I and other folks that love photography prefer the realistic detail though!

Guys what does that yellow auto button do in Pro mode?
I've seen it pop up now and then on screen in Pro.

choccy31 said:
Guys what does that yellow auto button do in Pro mode?
I've seen it pop up now and then on screen in Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you take a screen grab next time you see it? I'm not certain what it is you see because I don't see a yellow auto button unless I open up one of the manual control options like shutter speed etc., which is just an indication that it's in auto (even though it's the pro mode) and you're not manually adjusting yourself. If that makes sense...

I have seen this since the Galaxy S7 Edge. Samsung automatically sets up their beauty function on the camera that way when a selfie is being taken. Very simple to remove. All you have to do is click the icon of a woman's head on the bottom right and set everything to 0.

j0kerb0mb said:
I have seen this since the Galaxy S7 Edge. Samsung automatically sets up their beauty function on the camera that way when a selfie is being taken. Very simple to remove. All you have to do is click the icon of a woman's head on the bottom right and set everything to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That too, but we're talking about the rear camera. Not the selfie camera. The rear camera appears to also be applying a smoothing or "prettify" effect to people's faces when recognized. It's subtle, but enough to notice people's skins are smooth and less detailed then the clothes or their surrounding environment are.

JDM9499 said:
Can you take a screen grab next time you see it? I'm not certain what it is you see because I don't see a yellow auto button unless I open up one of the manual control options like shutter speed etc., which is just an indication that it's in auto (even though it's the pro mode) and you're not manually adjusting yourself. If that makes sense...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah that makes sense. So even in Pro it can sit select settings itself.
Does that mean will still take in RAW also?

choccy31 said:
Ah that makes sense. So even in Pro it can sit select settings itself.
Does that mean will still take in RAW also?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even in Pro mode, you can still let the shutter speed, ISO etc., stay AUTO. And yup, you can still save in RAW. :good:

So, in the end this irked me so much I sold the phone. I read a lot of reviews and chatted to some guys and the general consensus is if you want to see detail on faces, get a Pixel. I noticed also in testing (I tested against a few phones) that the iPhone 7 does the same thing but in a less exaggerated way. Lastly, I don't have enough cred to post links but check out Phandroid comparison of S5, S6, S7 and S8. This was exactly my experience coming from an S6 to an S8.
I did also do an experiment taking selfies with the rear camera. Previously I had mostly been taking pics of my kids. Now I'm a grizzled-ish dude. Lots of lines on my face and wrinkles. Too much sun, no cream, getting old. I won't lie the camera kind of made me look good. The combination of sharpening and smoothing made it a good pic. Maybe that is why nobody moans? With my kid, I miss the reality of it. Where are the freckles and fine hairs or tiny pimples on their faces? But with me it's like smoothing out flaws. Maybe that's why generally people like it. It creates pleasing pictures that may not be too true to reality. In particular the photos look best zoomed out so good for Facebook/Instagram.

Good luck with the Pixel guys. I bought one before my S8 and loved it until I started taking photos. Before I had taken my 5th photo I started noticing awful flare and halos whenever there was a light source anywhere in front of the phone - not even necessarily in the frame. My best photos are taken contre-jour and the delicate lighting effects you can get shooting towards the sun in particular can result in some lovely shots. Knowing I would have to stop taking these sort of photos was a real deal-breaker and I returned the Pixel and ordered an S8. I took a photo last weekend with the sun actually in the frame and got very minimal flare. It would have destroyed the Pixel photo.

The S8 is truly brilliant at handling difficult light sources, especially rear-lit. The only problem I had with it is the way it totally killed facial textures.
scgf said:
Good luck with the Pixel guys. I bought one before my S8 and loved it until I started taking photos. Before I had taken my 5th photo I started noticing awful flare and halos whenever there was a light source anywhere in front of the phone - not even necessarily in the frame. My best photos are taken contre-jour and the delicate lighting effects you can get shooting towards the sun in particular can result in some lovely shots. Knowing I would have to stop taking these sort of photos was a real deal-breaker and I returned the Pixel and ordered an S8. I took a photo last weekend with the sun actually in the frame and got very minimal flare. It would have destroyed the Pixel photo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

renegadem4ster said:
The S8 is truly brilliant at handling difficult light sources, especially rear-lit. The only problem I had with it is the way it totally killed facial textures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A photo of my granddaughter. One of the first I took on my new S8. Can you see the issue here?
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"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
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"lightbox_download": "Download",
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Looks pretty good. Not being familiar with your granddaughter it's difficult for me to comment how true to life it is. But when taking pictures of my own children on my S8, it had a super strong tendency to just wash away all the facial texture making it unnaturally smooth-looking. I don't think it would help for me to post the image because again you don't know what it should look like. On my S6, there is subtlety in the texture.. dapples of colour, fine marks etc. On the S8 it's just like smooth white. I'm not sure if that's making sense
scgf said:
A photo of my granddaughter. One of the first I took on my new S8. Can you see the issue here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

How to make Mi MIX camera digestible

Hi folks,
i wanted to share some of my insights from 2 days of usage of Mi Mix. As for most, camera was biggest letdown. I knew it was bad, but actual experience exceeded all expectations After some digging and thanks to some threads in xda forum i found a way to make quite decent photos with little sacrifice.
So few things first:
- I'm on rooted LineageOS with Camera API2 unlocked (to be honest i didn't have to unlock it - i suppose it is unlocked with LineageOS? )
- As some noticed before, the hardware isn't that bad, it's software that spoils photos with ugly postprocessing in most cases.
- I'm using Snap Camera HDR - i tried most of software in Google Play and only in it found something like Low Light Mode - if someone know software with similar feature - pls let me know .
So what i did is basically turning off all useless postpro in Snap Camera (sharpenning, denoising, post-processing, anti-banding) and enabled Low Light Mode in all photos . From what i understand i takes series of photos and compare them to make one clean photo. You can choose how many frames to take. More you take the better picture you will get but it will also take more time to process. The processing time is biggest letdown of this method. You can't take another photo during processing so burst mode won't work. I found 5 to be best compromise - it enhances photo noticeably and takes only 1-3s to process. If u can spare more time between photos u can crank it up to 32 - with that count i had really impressive results even with ISO around 1500-2000 but the processing can take 10-30s. Another letdown as you can probably guess is that you can have some issues with moving objects - the darker it gets, the more blurred will they be (slower shutter for every frame).
Now to main dish, examples
All photos taken in 16Mpx without flash or any tripod, all taken form hand for real life comparison. As photo is processed in Snap Camera the jpg lose photo metadata so i only write that data for stock camera, for Snap Camera i write how many frames was set for Low Light Mode. I know it's not very scientific but i take photos in both softwares almost at the same time, in same light conditions and on basic auto modes.
Stock camera on left, Snap Camera on right - I'm posting 100% crops, ill post full pictures if there will be some demand
1. [ISO 2500 1/15s] [5 LLM] - far objects in bad indoor lighting
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
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"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
2. [ISO 1250 1/17s] [5 LLM] - some fine details - fur, fabric, wood texture in mediocre light
3. [ISO 1600 1/17s] [5 LLM] - small details in mediocre light
4. [ISO 160 1/33s] [32 LLM] - outdoor in good light - i took more frames to show some extra foliage details
5. [ISO 6400 1/15s] [32 LLM] - most hardcore example, very bad indoor lighting. Snap Camera algorithm made some wired border around Marshall logo, but apart form that great job.
I hope my post will help some of you with Mi Mix camera, please post your own experiences with camera - maybe there is even better solution for our phones

Download Google Camer Hdr+ from OnePlus 5 thread and all your problems will solved you wont need to do any kinds of settings and quality of photos will be much much better!!(i past this step that you are now months ago and i had tried hundred type of apps out there )

Jinthegodstyle said:
Download Google Camer Hdr+ from OnePlus 5 thread and all your problems will solved you wont need to do any kinds of settings and quality of photos will be much much better!!(i past this step that you are now months ago and i had tried hundred type of apps out there )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big Thx, i will most certainly try it:good:

I'm considering getting this device, but the camera is the main thing holding me back (besides price for last year's SoC...)
Does the Google HDR camera make this acceptable? I don't necessarily need the BEST camera, but I'd prefer relatively fast rate of capture and at least mediocre detail. The initial reviews of the device's camera make it seem like utter trash.
Also consider I want to root the device & install something Lineage based, most devices you sacrifice camera quality when you go this route (because of lack of API 2 / hardware source).

crash4fun said:
I'm considering getting this device, but the camera is the main thing holding me back (besides price for last year's SoC...)
Does the Google HDR camera make this acceptable? I don't necessarily need the BEST camera, but I'd prefer relatively fast rate of capture and at least mediocre detail. The initial reviews of the device's camera make it seem like utter trash.
Also consider I want to root the device & install something Lineage based, most devices you sacrifice camera quality when you go this route (because of lack of API 2 / hardware source).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The camera is equally bad regardless what ROM you run

OT. Found this OP5 camera app(proted or something) on AFH by blackterroristh https://androidfilehost.com/?fid=817906626617944662

Kalisfura1001 said:
OT. Found this OP5 camera app(proted or something) on AFH by blackterroristh https://androidfilehost.com/?fid=817906626617944662
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you link the thread please? I get a parsing error during installation (stock global rom).

nr-thunder said:
Can you link the thread please? I get a parsing error during installation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No idea if there is one for it. As i said I found it on AFH, but works on my mix. Perhaps re-downloading by another browser or app?

Kalisfura1001 said:
No idea if there is one for it. As i said I found it on AFH, but works on my mix. Perhaps re-downloading by another browser or app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately no, same with edge on desktop and yandex on mobile. Running rooted stock Global MIUI 8.5.5.0.

nr-thunder said:
Can you link the thread please? I get a parsing error during installation (stock global rom).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://androidfilehost.com/?fid=817906626617944662

caballon said:
https://androidfilehost.com/?fid=817906626617944662
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the file link, I thought there is a discussion thread where I could ask for help because of the error. I also got parsing error with other ported Google Camera apks featured in XDA news, other 3rd party camera apps work though.

It's not prerequisite to have Nougat ? Stock Global ROM is under Marshmallow...

nr-thunder said:
That's the file link, I thought there is a discussion thread where I could ask for help because of the error. I also got parsing error with other ported Google Camera apks featured in XDA news, other 3rd party camera apps work though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Today tried it on Epic 7.11.9 and got the same error. Didn't really invest why.
lesscro said:
It's not prerequisite to have Nougat ? Stock Global ROM is under Marshmallow...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps but see my above post. Anyway it's not a ''wow'' app, just saying.

Received the Nightly OTA today, updated to V9.1.1.0 . Now I am on Nougat, the OP5 port linked in this thread works now , other versions of the google camera get installed but will close immediatly. Just tested it in my room and can't say that I see an improvement, maybe when tested outside at daylight. But I use the google camera anyway because I'm using immersive mode + dpi changes which make stock camera working less stable.

Hi. I updated yesterday to V9.1.1.0 via OTA. I tried the OP5 camera and is does a better job in lower light and image stays in better focus then stock camera. Is the OP5 the same as the google HDR camera. If not, is there a version of google hdr camera that works on Mi Mix without root? Also is there there a way to turn on some type of optical stabilization on stock camera. If I hold it really still when snapping pic the image is a lot sharper. It's actually pretty good. Just not practical to take pictures that way.
EDIT: OK. I guess no OIS on Mix...

I got my mi mix a bit more than a month ago coming from a OP3 and I was shocked by the awful camera of the mi mix. Sorry, I have no other words for it.
The op5 APK seems to make it digestible, but it's still not great. I know that for a GREAT camera I should've picked a different phone, but I didn't expect it to be like this.

Poor camera result in dim room.

Hi. I've just get the unit today. It was exynos and I find out the camera was truly bad at dim condition. Even when comparing s20 ultra to note 9, the note 9 picture was much better. I have update my s20 ultra firmware to the latest from Samsung.
Look at the face. The s20 ultra result was having what looks like compression artifact. But it's right out of the camera without any editing. This only happen in dim condition. And also this happens to face only since other than face there's no artifact at all.
S20 ULTRA
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NOTE 9

well for one thing it's blurry from the head moving. Second i agree it looks like $hit (no offense to your baby!)
I have no advice other than to say it's unbelievable we could pay $1400 for such an unfinished product..steadily I am losing more and more faith in samsung. At least you were able to get the camera to focus!

We all have similar issues and I think that all of us waiting for the next SW update are customers with a lot of faith. At least Samsung admitted it and if they cannot fix it with the next update then probably most of the phones will be returned.

did you know the 108 megapixel is not on by default? youll have to change the aspect ratio and before you take a picture it should show from the settings which megapixel you are using.

Same. It's very blurry / grainy (yet unnecessarily oversharpened) at the same time in low indoor lighting.

buddy66 said:
At least Samsung admitted it and if they cannot fix it with the next update then probably most of the phones will be returned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you link me?

xnostra said:
did you know the 108 megapixel is not on by default? youll have to change the aspect ratio and before you take a picture it should show from the settings which megapixel you are using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What? The post has nothing to do with (and no mention of) the 108mp mode.
---------- Post added at 05:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 AM ----------
dazed1 said:
Can you link me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They didn't admit anything. It was I think a Twitter post that said something like "Samsung is committed to delivering the best experience for their customers, blah blah blah constantly working to improve experiences for everyone."
It was generic like that

There was an answer to The Verge that they will work on to deliver the best camera experience. Yes it was generic but camera oriented and it is good that they responded.

xnostra said:
did you know the 108 megapixel is not on by default? youll have to change the aspect ratio and before you take a picture it should show from the settings which megapixel you are using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not talking about the 108mpx. Also the 108mpx didn't help with the pict quality.
For now the only solution is to use pro mode.

Senjaya said:
I'm not talking about the 108mpx. Also the 108mpx didn't help with the pict quality.
For now the only solution is to use pro mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you turned off bixby scene optimizer? Watched a YT video earlier that claimed turning it off gets rid of the awful skin smoothing effects.

jwwagner25 said:
Have you turned off bixby scene optimizer? Watched a YT video earlier that claimed turning it off gets rid of the awful skin smoothing effects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I've try it. No luck at all. The skin smoothing still happening

Senjaya said:
Yes I've try it. No luck at all. The skin smoothing still happening
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did a pic of myself after the ATBM update and my skin colour was the same as when I turned my head 90 degrees to the side. There was also no smoothing and I could see my pores and other natural stuff

buddy66 said:
I did a pic of myself after the ATBM update and my skin colour was the same as when I turned my head 90 degrees to the side. There was also no smoothing and I could see my pores and other natural stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you use your selfie or the main sensor?
If you are using main sensor, could you try using auto mode and Pro mode and share the result to here? Also cna you snap your picture in dim area, since I notice the processing occurred in a dim area was more aggressive than on a bright area.

Senjaya said:
Did you use your selfie or the main sensor?
If you are using main sensor, could you try using auto mode and Pro mode and share the result to here? Also cna you snap your picture in dim area, since I notice the processing occurred in a dim area was more aggressive than on a bright area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have used the main sensor and it was at work during day time with not bad light conditions. I will give it a try in light dimmed area and give you feedback.

buddy66 said:
I have used the main sensor and it was at work during day time with not bad light conditions. I will give it a try in light dimmed area and give you feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. And also try move your head slightly when you snap the photo. I'm interested on the result.

Senjaya said:
Thanks. And also try move your head slightly when you snap the photo. I'm interested on the result.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. I noticed in your first picture the hair on your child's head is blurry. I have a feeling what happened is there was motion in the photo and in trying to fix the motion created all of the weird artifact effect. you'll notice the hair from your note 9 photo is sharp and clear, likely because there was no motion while the photo was taken.

jwwagner25 said:
This. I noticed in your first picture the hair on your child's head is blurry. I have a feeling what happened is there was motion in the photo and in trying to fix the motion created all of the weird artifact effect. you'll notice the hair from your note 9 photo is sharp and clear, likely because there was no motion while the photo was taken.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The movement was indeed making the artifact worsen. But it also happen in no movement condition.
S20 ultra bad image processing
In this pict, the baby wasn't moving much (minimal movement) .
Movement make it worse.
This picture was in very bright room, the child wasn't moving and the artefact still happening, and take a look at the woman on the background. The artefact was really annoying

Yes I agree. I just took a photo of the news on TV and the anchors faces look like oil painting. How could Samsung have screwed up this badly...it's really unbelievable. And how more people aren't making afuss, I also don't understand.

jwwagner25 said:
Yes I agree. I just took a photo of the news on TV and the anchors faces look like oil painting. How could Samsung have screwed up this badly...it's really unbelievable. And how more people aren't making afuss, I also don't understand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I don't know what's going with the silence.
For now I'm using the pro mode with all settings set to auto. This way the picture processing won't happen and the picture was very good.

Senjaya said:
The movement was indeed making the artifact worsen. But it also happen in no movement condition.
S20 ultra bad image processing
In this pict, the baby wasn't moving much (minimal movement) .
Movement make it worse.
This picture was in very bright room, the child wasn't moving and the artefact still happening, and take a look at the woman on the background. The artefact was really annoying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems that the artifacts come from very bad hdr stitching. Try to take some photos with scene optimiser and hdr off, although it would probably make very little difference. The reason some other phones like pixel and iPhone cand take better shots of moving subjects is because they use something called zero shutter combined with a faster shutter. It means that the phone takes a lot of pictures before the picture is taken. Now, Samsung also uses a buffer since s9 with dedicated dram for the camera but probably is much lower and their hdr stiching is not as smart as Google's for example (accounting for movement in the frame). After all this time you'd think Samsung would figure this out but not many companies do this sadly). Also the big sensor that gathers more light should allow the phone to use faster shutter and bigger iso without introducing much more noise ala huwei.