Database Users

WAREZ everywhere... and even here

I used to confuse this forum with a decent place for technical discussion of technical issues related to HTC devices, this illusion was short lived People are just casually dropping links to warez and no one seems to care! no moderation whatsoever. Take this example: A rigged license file for the most marvelous software ever for Windows mobile: Igo8 was put two months ago here. I complained quite clearly, and requested moderators for action in the respective thread here. No action whatsoever! Now look at this glorious post in the same thread here, the whole rigged software is available for your kind usage. It seems there is no stopping!
Please understand my harsh tone has a deeper reason. I am quite sure that this is the only reason why windows mobile is taking such strong bashing from iphone.... such a mature platform taking beating from a newborn! The reason is: developers get a few bucks in return of there hard work for iphone, while for windows mobile ppl just run for the rigged versions everywhere. If software developers are not paid back their hard-earned money, they will just look away, stop developing for windows, now that they have a much viable alternate like iphone and others. We all have to think about this! This is a doomsday scenario for WM.
Best regards!

if you havent heard, the jailbroken iphones have a program called Installer...where they get all the apps for free too just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents ... i just dont see the reason why it would bother you, it's neither one of our faults, its the way the website monitors their threads ... no need to make a whole new thread bashing the website

elite-fusion said:
if you havent heard, the jailbroken iphones have a program called Installer...where they get all the apps for free too just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents ... i just dont see the reason why it would bother you, it's neither one of our faults, its the way the website monitors their threads ... no need to make a whole new thread bashing the website
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not the point... and the purpose of this thread isn’t "bashing" this forum. The point is, we here should not facilitate the downward spiral windows mobile is in right now, we should have strict action against it at least within the discussions here. I know about iphone jail breaking, but its ease and availability is no where close to WM... iphone app developers are really earning money, the proof of this pudding is in eating. Just last year, we all were laughing at iphone not having an SDK. Now, if i try to google an app for my WM, the search return iphone app instead!

Deep Breath.......
waqarz said:
Thats not the point... etc,etc,etc !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I first started to read your initial post I thought - Hear we go, another over exaggerated claim and a rant about how poorly the site is managed.... but as I finished reading I thought "Yep" your at least partly right - there's far more "abuse" of the forum and site now in many ways than there was a year ago - not just on the Warez front either - So I'm very much with you there and in support of your "general" comments.... However....
Membership of XDA Developers has rocketed in the past 12 months (or so it seems????) as has the activity and number of posts/comments/hits per day - and not just in this section but in many others.... which is of course a good thing - but..... with all the extra traffic and all the extra members so the "unwanted" aspects also experientially increase - and "OUR" moderators have far more to monitor and try to manage (as well as helping out and offering advice themselves when they can) and this is the part you seem to have missed as others often do - the moderators are NOT paid - its something they do because they want to and because they can.....
I would actively encourage you, and ALL other members to continue to report abuse of the site and on the forums and to actively discourage other members by highlighting (as you have) inappropriate behaviour so we can self regulate as much as possible.
Of course, if the moderators have time and the inclination to step in and take action then that’s great, if not - then lets help by policing ourselves and offering offenders (quite often misguided I'm sure) some friendly but firm advice - if its ignored then what more can we do.
Deep Breath.......
.

"the downward spiral windows mobile is in right now"
Dear Don Quixote, i beg to differ. The """downward""" spiral is becoase of crappy operating system and warez has nothing to do with it. And well, iphone is trendy :lol: I dont condone warez but i am organically alergic to more-god-than-god people like you.
And stop annoying people here, go to the kindergarten and yell "new torrent tracker". You will be amazed how many kids will turn around.

waqarz said:
I used to confuse this forum with a decent place for technical discussion of technical issues related to HTC devices, this illusion was short lived People are just casually dropping links to warez and no one seems to care! no moderation whatsoever. Take this example: A rigged license file for the most marvelous software ever for Windows mobile: Igo8 was put two months ago here. I complained quite clearly, and requested moderators for action in the respective thread here. No action whatsoever! Now look at this glorious post in the same thread here, the whole rigged software is available for your kind usage. It seems there is no stopping!
Please understand my harsh tone has a deeper reason. I am quite sure that this is the only reason why windows mobile is taking such strong bashing from iphone.... such a mature platform taking beating from a newborn! The reason is: developers get a few bucks in return of there hard work for iphone, while for windows mobile ppl just run for the rigged versions everywhere. If software developers are not paid back their hard-earned money, they will just look away, stop developing for windows, now that they have a much viable alternate like iphone and others. We all have to think about this! This is a doomsday scenario for WM.
Best regards!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The best you can do to help stopping this is to report the post or member clicking on the report symbol next to the post #, or post it in spam section here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=306366&page=22
That way Mods can take an action.
There are so many threads that is difficult to monitor all

If you have a problem
use the report button, we are here to help.
we can't be everywhere so you need to tell us so we can act.
thank you.

liamhere said:
use the report button, we are here to help.
we can't be everywhere so you need to tell us so we can act.
thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I really should have used the "report" link, my bad!
I really do appreciate all the volunteer work being done here by moderators and other resonable members. I myself moderate a few forums, not as large as this though and to some extend I know the toll. All, keep up the good work!
I still have a suggestion, members doing strict violation of policy should be warned and later banned!
Best regards.

waqarz said:
I still have a suggestion, members doing strict violation of policy should be warned and later banned!
Best regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah just electrocute them first, warn them if they recover.

fards said:
Nah just electrocute them first, warn them if they recover.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good one

waqarz said:
...
I am quite sure that this is the only reason why windows mobile is taking such strong bashing from iphone.... such a mature platform taking beating from a newborn! The reason is: developers get a few bucks in return of there hard work for iphone, while for windows mobile ppl just run for the rigged versions everywhere. If software developers are not paid back their hard-earned money, they will just look away, stop developing for windows, now that they have a much viable alternate like iphone and others. We all have to think about this! This is a doomsday scenario for WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as someone else already did
i must disagree with you on one point, why WinMo "...is taking such strong bashing from..." iPhone
it has nothing to do with Warez, your argument seems uninformed and almost sounds like bashing
Using the iPhone for any length of time you'll realize just how much time was put into the user experience, no manual, no class, just pick up and use. WinMo had thought behind it's design, but it was designed about a decade ago, to be used with a stylus. As is it's hopelessly outdated in look and feel (Windows 3.1 anyone, that's mature too by now)
As for the reason it seams that developers do better on the iPhone it's the same thing; thought. Thought put into the experience of using the AppStore. no serial headaches, integration, updates, and backup - just works. Like iTunes it's just easy to use for average people, Handago (or whatever is compatible with AppStore) is NOT easy.
Ignoring the needs of users and no real innovation from Redmond is doomsday for WinMo. Not Warez (which, as mentioned exist for the iPhone too, and it's this easy).
P.S. never had an Apple product, but if iPhone had Copy & Paste i'd own one now, not the HD
P.P.S. there is somewhat of a backlash in the Apple community against quality control, bad developers, and no "try before you buy" in the AppStore. if interested please read here then here.

The only thing why Iphone have so many Apps (and good apps) is the Appstore (one place for all apps), and the Hype. And ofcourse its only 1 device, with 1 displaysize, 1 processor and 1 input type.
On WM we got several desplaysizes, devices, processors and input types.
Its much more easy and cheaply to develope for 1 device than for thousands.
If we get also a appstore i am really safe that we get more good apps and games for our WM Devices.
Second:
I think delevopers do a hard job and develope good apps, and we shall donate to them. I work for a big software company and also hate warez. Warez is not good, but do not exaggerate nevertheless times! I do not think that here possibly someone such things with intention.
Third:
Sorry for my bad english.

Sir.B said:
as someone else already did
i must disagree with you on one point, why WinMo "...is taking such strong bashing from..." iPhone
it has nothing to do with Warez, your argument seems uninformed and almost sounds like bashing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cant be serious right? Go through these 3 articles, just the first 3 hits on google:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/6459.html
http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/report/mobile-pda-software-piracy-and-warez
http://apcmag.com/windows_mobile_6_pirated.htm
Take one example: just over the last year, hundreds of thousands of people have illegally shared navigation maps, a conservative estimate of loss is in millions of dollars.
I an NOT claiming piracy is the only problem with WM, but it sure is a BIG contributor, this is my only point in this discussion. The reasons and implications are many and I cant go into details. I really feel sorry, my own mistake, dropping in the word "iphone" always ends up in a useless debate! Many threads here being trashed because of this.
Best regards.

bogous microsoft letter info

According to tweakers.net (dutch), a very popular and more important, trustworthy Dutch IT website.
XDA-Developers (And thus also Duttythroy.net) breaches intellectual property laws regarding ROM Cooking.
However Microsoft and HTC both agree "We can't live with 'em and we can't live without 'em."
Microsoft will not send take down orders to sites such as XDA-Developers, who offer customized ROMs for windows-mobile telephone.
Some sites offering ROMs based on Windows Mobile 6.5 got take down orders last week. They, However, appeared to be hoax.
“Taking action against sites such as XDA-Developers isn’t a matter of concern for Microsoft” says Maarten Sonneveld of Microsoft Netherlands against tweakers.net. “What happens there, the modifying of ROMs, is illegal. The intellectual property however is not with us. The ROMs are intellectual property of the producers of the phone or the mobile phone providers if it concerns branded telephones. We simple only deliver the OS.”
The biggest producer of Windows Mobile-phones, HTC, also says they don’t have any plans to take action against ROM sites. “What happens there isn’t allowed” says HTC Benelux-CEO Mark Moons,
“But XDA-Developers is the biggest and most active community of Windows Mobile-developers. We can’t live with ‘em and we can’t live without ‘em.”
Last week it seemed there were to come an end to tolerating Windows Mobile-communities.
A certain ‘James Young’ sent emails on behalf of Microsoft to site managers in which he stated that they were sharing illegal content, and summoned them to stop their practices; some site managers, in fact, did this.
It mostly concerned ROMs with betas of Windows Mobile 6.5, the update of Microsoft’s Mobile OS that should appear this summer.
The email of Young appeared, however, to be a hoax.
Microsoft denied against XDA-Developers that the summoning came from them, they also say that the email address is incorrect and that summons such as these always are sent by written letters instead of email. Not so long ago someone with the exact same email address and name sent the same kind of emails to sites that, according to him, placed illegal content for the Xbox. The Pirate Bay also received a message by ‘James Young’ in the past.
Aside from this: a funny fact is that recently Arne, when he still was on our team, contacted Microsoft and HTC concerning this very issue as we were wondering the legal status of sharing ROMs.
He however didn't receive any clear answer even though he called a zillion times and emailed to infinity, twice.
source: translated with google

so, HTC and Microsoft have acknowledged that they can't really stop us as that would pretty much halt independent development for Windows Mobile... i'd say that's a good thing

disillusionment
really microsoft is big company,but in this behaviors it will be smallest in eyes of thier system users and developers.
So small comment to microsoft (go to hell) u did not stop the developing & progression in the world.

Commercial facts
As I understand the info shared by Nemonique...
The matter of bann this develops... is concerned by the brand... but... this makes people buy devices... cause at last... the business is sell devices.. no matter if it has the shipped version X.XXXXXXXXXXXXX or the Last upgrade Y:YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY, it does´t matter they buy the OS original and upload to their devices... the upgrading modding and sharing is responsability of the user... they lost his warranty by unlocking... the business is to sell devices.
I think this ends on summer... so... provide links here is risky... pirate bay has almost closed cause the GUB on swed has told them "if you search on that site we bann you from Internet providers..." so the user at the end is the responsable.

homam_france said:
really microsoft is big company,but in this behaviors it will be smallest in eyes of thier system users and developers.
So small comment to microsoft (go to hell) u did not stop the developing & progression in the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhh, I really advise you to read the OP again..
Microsoft is NOT to blame, it was a moron IMPERSONATING MS.
Please refrain from bashing Microsoft, or we will be forced to invoke your right to use a WinMo device and will convict you to use an iPhone
BTW You are free to post ANY ROM (provided they don't contain warez).
They won't be removed (until a true complaint from MS or HTC arrives).
Regards,
EquinoXe

now, i understand more the letter, but did this process is useful for them?they couldn`t stop any one,but only the websites will be the victim.
or there is the enycripitation or the hidden will works,they try to build illegal world by thier legal stuff.
sorry, but it is really disapointed matter.

homam_france said:
now, i understand more the letter, but did this process is useful for them?they couldn`t stop any one,but only the websites will be the victim.
or there is the enycripitation or the hidden will works,they try to build illegal world by thier legal stuff.
sorry, but it is really disapointed matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC themselves said it: We can't live with 'em, and we can't live without 'em !
In other words: They're not going to do anything since any Action against this site will seriously harm the Windows Mobile Community.
So, as the-equinoxe said, as long as your ROM does not contain warez, you can post it here, and download the ROMs of others as well without fearing a reprimand for it...

the-equinoxe said:
Uhh, I really advise you to read the OP again..
Microsoft is NOT to blame, it was a moron IMPERSONATING MS.
Please refrain from bashing Microsoft, or we will be forced to invoke your right to use a WinMo device and will convict you to use an iPhone
BTW You are free to post ANY ROM (provided they don't contain warez).
They won't be removed (until a true complaint from MS or HTC arrives).
Regards,
EquinoXe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, being this said, why not remove the fake email's posted on Sun_Dream's thread, and perhaps, if there is a way, restore all the info that was deleted, to show appreciation for his work. I think that would be the best way to apologize for the action taken(which at the time was justified based on the unknown/unconfirmed veracity of those emails, and as a precaution to protect XDA), and welcome back Sun_Dream.(not that he was banned, but we all know how uncomfortable he must have felt.

Well i want just to comment the legitimacy of rom modifying. It is illegal but noone cares. Microsoft cares about leaked betas but not too much as you see - they can afford few leaks here and there, but they can not afford to loose such large community of beta tersters and developers (a massive feedback for roms and devices) - and it is for free for them so thats why they do not care. Microsoft takes money for licensing their mobile OS to OEM manifacturers and Operators. One as these OEM manifacturers is HTC, their reason to not care is that forums like xda-developers makes them popular - free advertising - if they cut the rom upgrades and ban rom cooking they risk bad advertising and sales drop, why they should loose money instead of making them ?! Also some other phone manifacturers have turned to WM - SonyEricsson, Samsung (with OMNIA series, the other ones were crap) they feel whats happening and they want a piece of the pie . Why mobile operators do not care ? Well they buy some licenses for their branded devices and in most cases the mnifacturer makes the rom and the operator makes the customization. No one takes measures because in the long run it will harm their profits.
Someone may ask: Why it is illegal i have license for my device? - The license is for one and only one version of Windows mobile + upgrades of the same version. You may upgrade to new WM major version only if your OEM or Operator offer you a upgrade.
So we @ xda-developers make things which operators and OEMs will not do, this makes people happy and Microsoft is happy because of rapid growing popularity of windows mobile (more popularity = more profits), OEM's are happy about the popularity of their devices so everyone is happy
I am really sleepy so please excuse me if i have any typos or misstakes

So, I guess this infamous internet investigator was a hoax after all, huh? I guess it did sound a little far fetched that M$ would hire someone and would give him/her a dumbas$ title like that.
In any case, I completely agree with xplode's statement. M$ doesn't necessarily make much advertising on their WM platforms and equipment manufacturers don't spend that much money on advertising their stuff either. In fact, HTC is just beginning to have some sort of advertising (public kind like TV commercials and such) in the US. I gotta be honest, if it wasn't for this site, I would not know that HTC ever made anything beyond the Wallaby, which BTW I didn't know was manufactured by HTC until I nearly bricked it and found this site.
Just think about this for a second. Think about the number and size of forums and blogs dedicated to WM vs iPhone, Symbian, and BlackBerry. And now compare that to the money spent in advertising of the same devices. More than likely, Apple would top the charts in spending since everyone out there was literally brainwashed by the iPhone's outstanding marketing campaign. The Blackberry has always been out there somewhat competing with WM, but due to the lack of interest of freelance developers out there for these devices, they have had to dump big chunks of cash into advertising.
To put things more into perspective, think about how the announcements by HTC show up in this site right after being made by them. Normally, within a few hours the WM communities will get winds of new devices coming this way... which is, for lack of a better term, free advertising. They create a big expectation among seasoned users and new comers alike. Some of them, even willing to dump large sums of money on the new devices even though theirs are only a few months old. For this same reason, (and once again, I agree with xplode) shutting us (and other communities down) would be like cutting an arm. Plus, they don't pay us, so what's the harm?
Aside from all that, M$ understand that not everyone will have money to upgrade devices as they are released, but if the customer is kept happy, he/she is more likely to be a returning customer when his/her situation allows. So, let them keep their betas and their leaks.
All in all, kudos to M$ and HTC for understanding our role in this game. And as far as James "Jacka$$" Young, go kill yourself... you and people like you are the reason why the internet has a bad rep these days.
EGZ

markanthonypr said:
So, being this said, why not remove the fake email's posted on Sun_Dream's thread, and perhaps, if there is a way, restore all the info that was deleted, to show appreciation for his work. I think that would be the best way to apologize for the action taken(which at the time was justified based on the unknown/unconfirmed veracity of those emails, and as a precaution to protect XDA), and welcome back Sun_Dream.(not that he was banned, but we all know how uncomfortable he must have felt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for bringing this into attention.
As there where many threads "purged" by the site admins (who are the ones who deal with the copyright cases), I have no idea which posts in which threads all need to be restored.
I have seen some of sun_dreams work I and I was impressed (and that is a difficult thing to achieve).
They deserve to be restored. (So I just restored the one containing the letter myself)
Please use the
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button in the threads to report those threads who have wrongly been purged but not yet repaired, so the mods can repair those threads where possible.
Use a text like "Please restore this 6.5 ROM post which was a victim of the James Young hoax, but was not yet repaired" to let us mods and the admins know why you are reporting a thread.
In regards to these threads, please have some patience, it was a big task to purge them, unpurging is sometimes even more difficult.
Especially for a poor mod
Regarding this thread: I can safely say that your complaints have been heard and are acted upon.
Please report other threads/post regarding the 6.5 ROMs using the above mentioned method so all the mods and the admins are notified, not only the few who read this thread.
That is why I close this thread: to make sure that every report get it's fair hearing, and not only by the few who read this thread.
With Kind Regards,
EqX

Developer Edition Community Stretch Goals

*This thread is about discussing the future of the Dev Edition as it pertains to the relationship between us and Samsung, and what we need from them. This thread will also contain official updates and information from my contacts at Samsung corporate.*
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm back home and able to respond again in regards to the DE situation. As you all know I had dedicated time to dealing with corporate on the matter of getting our phones in stock and working on other stretch goals such as software support. I told you all that Monday would be a good day but to be honest I had a feeling that we wouldn't have had our products shipped until Tuesday. I have a few ideas as to why this is the case, but more importantly I would like to emphasize and state something very important in regards to our participation in the developer program.
In all my dealings with the project managers and corporate wigs at Samsung I represented the cause on behalf of our community which no one there had heard of. I explained to them the importance and the legacy of XDA Developers, but most of all I made sure to tell them about the tight-knit community that helps each other out, the portal of people who band together in solidarity to raise support for developers, leaders, products. Most importantly I told them that not only does this credo bind us as a small group of users, but that the most important phone advancements come from communities like ours.
With that being said, we have a prime opportunity to make history by influencing their developer program in in a positive way. For that we need everyone to please be civil and respectful when dealing with Samsung customer service at the mobile accessories department. It is not their fault these phones were not ready to go out and they are willing to make it right. I say this as someone with an overnight order that not only didn't go out until today, but went out as ground shipping instead for Monday. There are hundreds of us, many calling in, and the last thing we need is to turn this into a clustercluck. The more positive we make this experience, the better.
I promised it would be a good holiday weekend with the Note 4 so take the time to enjoy it. The delay does push us back a bit on our goals. Tomorrow I will get to the bottom of this and hopefully get you an official explanation. Though we are delayed a bit, the volume of sales was larger than I expected initially which means that we now have a larger community. As one of "The First 40" from last month, we only had a couple of threads and not too much going on. I want to change that and so I will reach out to the mods and see if we can get our own space to collaborate and work together. This requires teamwork and participation as well as patience and a dash of happiness.
My contacts at Samsung see our numbers as leverage to get the things we really want, like support and original firmware as well as possible future updates. There's a lot riding on this so we can't mess it up. I can't delve into specifics about everything I've discussed with them but we may be looking at changing the way vendors officially view unlocked bootloaders and custom roms.
I've drawn up what in my experience is a good map of where to go from here with the product. If you have any input and information, this is the thread to add to the Developer Edition project pipeline. I can't believe we have to do the work for them and we aren't even paid for this, though someone's got to do it or else none of us are getting the full product experience we paid hundreds of dollars for.
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Any questions/concerns/goal ideas/requests here. This should be a good starting map of where to go from here. It is imperative that we all have our units, and we all have the safety net needed to not brick our units which is why Goal 2 is so important. Then we can go on to have custom ROMs. We'll need to collaborate but for now we will enjoy the device this week and figure out what you'd like to see out of the future with Samsung and the dev program.
Sincerely,
Virgil Woods

Reserved for Goal 1 Updates
Update 1: With a one day delay, many of us are getting the phones and it's now out of stock again. Great work, I doubt we will have an idea of when it will be back in stock until next week because of the holidays.
Please take a moment to answer this one question survey on whether you were able to order a DE or you want to and are waiting on the back-order. This will give us a good head count for demand.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1uf...8JgFisXC4/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link
Thank you.

Reserved for Goal 2 Updates

Reserved for Goal 3 Updates

How about a program similar to HTC? This would solve almost all problems without even having another sku..

I just looked over the HTC dev program, it's pretty simple and easy to implement something similar but on a smaller scope as a test. The only problem I see with Samsung rejecting the release of the files we need is that it could be used on non-DE models to make them DE editions as we noticed with the latest shipping. Remember, Samsung is still a business and not our buddies so they need a fiscal motivation to compete with HTC, which we've shown them with this high demand. So far they have been painfully ignorant of growing demands and I would attribute it to them not knowing how to properly implement/make money off of this.

I understand what you are saying but why have a developer edition period. If you are talking from a Fiscal standpoint, why does it matter who unlocks the bootloader. I guarantee that they lose sales to HTC because people want root. Nexus and HTC are gaining popularity as Samsung is losing popularity. Verizon and AT&T are losing sales and T-mobile is gaining sales.
People don't want to have to pay full retail when they can upgrade and unlock the retail version...
Here is another consideration, why should someone who pays full retail price for the retail version not be able to unlock the bootloader. It's not Samsung who owns the device... Samsung is greedy for the money... If you give the customer what they deserve that in itself will increase sales.
Why don't you pitch that idea to them. Give the consumer the choice, what Samsung has done was push away customers and make us Angry.. I applaud HTC, they did it right

Hi Virgil, here's a problem I see with your approach. Samsung knows all to well that the huge majority of people buying the Developer Edition of their phones are not developers. They are everyday users who are willing to pay the extra money for a phone they can install a custom recovery on and root. I don't know the statistics for sure, but I would bet that 98% of the Developer Edition Note 4 (for instance) sales have been generated by everyday users...not developers.
I've bought 3 developer devices from Samsung previously. With each previous purchase there was a questionnaire that you had to complete (obviously designed for developers) before your order would be processed. That questionnaire was/is not present in the sales "process" for the Note 4. A developer program is a great idea, but won't go far without real, no kidding developers.
If we want to give Samsung a reason to take our "developer community" serious then we need to find a whole lot of developers.

The whole developer thing is dumb...I own a Dev N3. You have to pay full retail for a device that will never get any updates or any stock firmware package to fall back on. Each dev bootloader has its own signature that is device specific, so there is no way to upgrade the bootloader without a dev specifically signing it to your device. I am running 4.4 Alliance build 2 on a 4.3 bootloader and because of that I have a few small quirks with youtube and bluetooth. Not a huge deal but it irks me.
Samsung should just allow you to have the choice to unlock your bootloader via fastboot at the cost of a voided warranty. Samsung once had the Smartphone market by the ballz. Now they are losing ground.

Sorry guys and girls we need to wait a few days for the Samsung internal team to decide upon the expansion of the developer program before we can begin to see any changes. I was told by the project director that there will be an internal meeting this week and our suggestions have been taken to account. I'm sorry I have nothing better for the community for now. I really want that original firmware most of all so we can begin developing.
Stay tuned and thanks again.
Sincerely,
Virgil Woods

VirgilWoods said:
Sorry guys and girls we need to wait a few days for the Samsung internal team to decide upon the expansion of the developer program before we can begin to see any changes. I was told by the project director that there will be an internal meeting this week and our suggestions have been taken to account. I'm sorry I have nothing better for the community for now. I really want that original firmware most of all so we can begin developing.
Stay tuned and thanks again.
Sincerely,
Virgil Woods
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Virgil,
Just wanted to say "Thanks" for doing this. It's nice to hear updates from someone who actually does have some inside knowledge even if a particular update is just that we are being heard and more info may come later.

Yeahp THANK YOU

VirgilWoods said:
Sorry guys and girls we need to wait a few days for the Samsung internal team to decide upon the expansion of the developer program before we can begin to see any changes. I was told by the project director that there will be an internal meeting this week and our suggestions have been taken to account. I'm sorry I have nothing better for the community for now. I really want that original firmware most of all so we can begin developing.
Stay tuned and thanks again.
Sincerely,
Virgil Woods
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your persistance, Virgil. If you can get them to release firmware for the Developer Edition Note 4 you will have promoted yourself from Liason to "The Man".

Motorola Failure to Meet Update Commitments; Petition.

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As many owners of Motorola's Atrix, Atrix HD, Moto E and other models know all too well...
- Motorola has not maintained an organized or regular update cycle for their devices.
- Motorola has repeatedly broken vague promises and hard commitments to update devices.
- This includes cases where the updates were promised on the Motorola website.
- This includes a case where the update was released with details posted on-line but was not actually delivered to the devices stated.
- There has been an instance where an OTA that was a 5.0.x update was displayed as 5.1.x when being installed.
- Some of the affected devices are not service provider branded (just Moto) so Motorola cannot blame the SP as they have in the past.
Picking up on an idea considered when Motorola backed out of their commitment to update the Atrix HD to Lollipop last year, an on-line petition has been created to let Motorola know this is not right. It is focused on the Moto E but is crafted so it can be signed by anyone who has been betrayed by Motorola's failed update commitments or want to see a better way of handling updates. If there is any resolution as a result of this petition, it is unlikely to extend far but we can still let them know about it.
https://www.change.org/p/motorola-f...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
Of course feel free to share details about pertinent experiences here in this thread but if you want Motorola to hear it, sign the petition and share the link to it. Also, For the Moto E you can make it known here at the Moto thread where details about the Moto E update are posted https://forums.motorola.com/posts/83391de77a?page=1.
Motorola once was, and should still be, capable of better than this!
------------------------------------
Nov 1, 2016, Greetings:
Motorola. Has finally updated most of the Moto E line to Android Marshmallow. Even some of the devices thought to be left off the update list (such as US retail single sim XT1511) eventually got Marshmallow, although sadly only after many boot-loaders were unlocked. Also, this Change.org petition for Moto E has been automatically closed (naturally expired), which was timely because it serves no purpose anymore, so I'll leave it expired and will ask to have this thread closed. I thank all who participated with signatures or in spirit. It was small in scope but every little bit helps.
One last thing: Although Moto E has been updated, Motorola has not mended it's poor updating ways and have done something similar (even worse by many measures) to yet another device, the Moto G3. There is a petition for that described in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/2015...sprey-t3476321 which I encourage all affected to sign.

You should probably post this in AF also, if you've not already dine so.
Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

starkly_raving said:
You should probably post this in AF also, if you've not already dine so.
Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean Android Forums, I've dug up some links to old posts of mine there (or was it Android Central, I don't recall) but they did not seem like good spots for this. Still, it's a good idea. I should be able to find a suitable place at other forums, and am open to specific recommendations. Also, everyone should feel free to share the link to the petition.

Signed and shared.

IronTechmonkey said:
If you mean Android Forums, I've dug up some links to old posts of mine there (or was it Android Central, I don't recall) but they did not seem like good spots for this. Still, it's a good idea. I should be able to find a suitable place at other forums, and am open to specific recommendations. Also, everyone should feel free to share the link to the petition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe post on Reddit too? The Android community is pretty big there.

Signed!

Ace42 said:
Maybe post on Reddit too? The Android community is pretty big there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another good idea. Thanks!

I think you guys shouldnt give a penny to motorola instead of moaning to let them hear your voice. Motorola simply doesnt give the smallest damn about this kind of petitions. Tried and didnt work for numerous times. Dont buy motorola, dont let anyone around you buy motorolas, that is what motorola deserves for their customer relations, marketing and update lies.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

Semseddin said:
I think you guys shouldnt give a penny to motorola instead of moaning to let them hear your voice. Motorola simply doesnt give the smallest damn about this kind of petitions. Tried and didnt work for numerous times. Dont buy motorola, dont let anyone around you buy motorolas, that is what motorola deserves for their customer relations, marketing and update lies.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Boycott is not a bad idea either but that sort of action may actually be harder to organize than efforts like a petition. Have you ever organized a boycott or a petition about this subject? The action of withholding dollars, and the action of creating a petition are not mutually exclusive. Unfortunately many of us already posses these devices and do not have the option to redirect money to a different device at this point but would still like to do something about it. There are no guarantees, but this type of pressure has been made to work before. For me personally, having first used Motorola gear in the form of gray brick shaped walkie talkies and under-dash radios in the 1980s, and since then always being impressed with whatever Motorola device I encountered across a wide range of hardware types; wanting to see Moto do better is part of this. Also, please do note that discouraging the petition and calling it "moaning" in the very thread where it is shared may not go over well.

I miss IDEN.

nobreak1970 said:
I miss IDEN.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What am I missing here?
[EDIT] Oh, I see. You're going old school as well. Nice.

IronTechmonkey said:
Boycott is not a bad idea either but that sort of action may actually be harder to organize than efforts like a petition. Have you ever organized a boycott or a petition about this subject? The action of withholding dollars, and the action of creating a petition are not mutually exclusive. Unfortunately many of us already posses these devices and do not have the option to redirect money to a different device at this point but would still like to do something about it. There are no guarantees, but this type of pressure has been made to work before. For me personally, having first used Motorola gear in the form of gray brick shaped walkie talkies and under-dash radios in the 1980s, and since then always being impressed with whatever Motorola device I encountered across a wide range of hardware types; wanting to see Moto do better is part of this. Also, please do note that discouraging the petition and calling it "moaning" in the very thread where it is shared may not go over well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't organized a petition like this before but participated for atrix 4g ics update and xt910 bootloader unlock petitions back in time, the electronic signs were counted by nearly 10k and motorola didnt give the smallest damn about those, just igroned us. I am not here to discourage anyone but i posted just to say dont bother your precious time to tame a liar company in a friendly manner, not worth it. They dont listen to their customers at all. I also like motorola hardware and that is where it ends for me, everything else in motorola just have the stinkny worst smell of all. Their marketing, service team, software team are all the worst but they used to have good engineers, not sure if they still have them looking at their 2015 portfolio can be called at best pathetic.
Hope you guys get the updates you deserve for your devices though. Just dont buy anything else branded motorola in future, this will teach them better how to behave as a responsible company when they dont see money flowing into their vault.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

Semseddin said:
.....electronic signs were counted by nearly 10k...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
10k? To believe that number I would have to have see proof, including the specific details and target/recipient of the petition.
Semseddin said:
. .. I am not here to discourage anyone but i posted just to say dont bother your precious time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Within one 18 word statement you contradict yourself. If you don't like the food being served then don't pull up to the table. Perhaps you could vent by creating an anti petition petition that discourages people from signing petitions, but whatever you do please take it elsewhere.

Not really surprised by this sadly.

IronTechmonkey said:
10k? To believe that number I would have to have see proof, including the specific details and target/recipient of the petition.
Within one 18 word statement you contradict yourself. If you don't like the food being served then don't pull up to the table. Perhaps you could vent by creating an anti petition petition that discourages people from signing petitions, but whatever you do please take it elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever, live your dream. Here is your numbers. Operation mosh, signed by 16k
https://www.change.org/p/motorola-mobility-inc-unlock-all-smartphone-bootloaders-2
Supportmymoto, no numbers but way above 10k supporters and real media support in a pro way.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32363139#post32363139
Now, you got ur numbers. Those petitions were for phones in premium range above 400$. Motorola just ignored them. You believe motorola would give a damn about your 50$ phone? Good luck with your dreams.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

Semseddin said:
...Operation mosh, signed by 16k https://www.change.org/p/motorola-mobility-inc-unlock-all-smartphone-bootloaders-2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impressive that they got 16k and I agree with it in principal but that is a request to unlock bootloader, against which Motorola (and other device manufacturers) are well insulated legally. The same is not necessarily the case for provably failed published commitments to provide a product or service.
Semseddin said:
Supportmymoto, no numbers but way above 10k supporters and real media support in a pro way.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32363139#post32363139
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A well presented case with good coverage but again, it is for getting an unlocked bootloader which is a steeper uphill battle.
Semseddin said:
....Good luck with your dreams....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the warm wishes, and for the details of the other actions, which I did find informative, helpful, and actually encouraging (although I still have modest hopes).

i am impressed the poll has 80 / 100 right now cool !
I wouldn't have had to rip my hair out today trying to install v5.1 onto my Moto-E if they update with my oem (Telus)
It sucks because i just wanted to run the stock rom
I got it installed but no matter what i tried i couldn't get the provider connection back for calls/txt's
What a drag too ..i swear it started up and ran fast than 5.0.2 (what i went back to)
Thank god i made a TWRP backup before meddling with things..
So hell yeah i voted
edit:
It's totally stupid they only updated *some of the oem's with 5.1
that is a massive slap in the face to those of us who missed out on v5.1 Lollipop !

I won't buy Motorola any more

Just a bit of an update. The petition now has 120 signatures which tells me that people must be sharing the link. Thanks to everyone who has signed and circulated it! I don't know what that really means in terms of the ability to exert some commercial pressure on Motorola but it does indicate that there are many people impacted by this, especially when you consider that there are likely large #s of people using the affected devices who don't participate in forums like this.
When I first gathered contact information for the petition, Motorola Customer Service provided an email address for the CEO that turned out to be incorrect. Fortunately I had others and sent a test email to see which would be rejected as invalid before creating the petition. Considering that experience, I've started searching outside the Moto support track for names and contact information for all of the Moto executives and departments that I can find to widen the target.
Thanks again to all who've signed, circulated, and provided constructive input.
[EDIT] Shared by user hyzteric at the Moto "excuse making forum" https://forums.motorola.com/posts/83391de77a?commentId=1000234#1000234 is news that the Mote E is still being sold which is really low.
http://www.androidcentral.com/motorola-either-update-moto-e-or-stop-selling-it
I already knew this but had not considered the ramifications. They are still sticking it to new purchasers of those devices. Lower than low!

Semseddin said:
.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soooo, although we differ on the merits of a petition we are in the same boat (betrayed by Moto) even if we may disagree on how to navigate it, and I must thank you for the details of the actions to which you referred. While hunting down email addresses of Moto's executives I also found the addresses from one of those previous actions. Between the ones I found that were not on that list and the ones from that list we now have a wider target for the petition.
Seriously - Thanks!
One thing I hope we have going for us this time is that it was/is not illegal for Motorola to decline to share their source code, but what they did this time might actually be illegal or at least actionable in a commercial sense.

IS the dashboard hijacking our texts?

I downloaded the app "Servicely" and it can disable services and apps to prolong your battery and what not, well i opened it up to take a look and i was going through each apps running services.. Not all mind you as there are a ton but i was scrolling down through OnePlus 6T dashboard app and one of the services was ".mms.SmsHijackerService" .
This of course grabbed my attention. Does anybody know what this is and is a lot more Innocent then what it looks like? I also read something earlier tonight about One plus does steal info behind users backs...not sure if it was a BS article or if out had some truth to it ( sure everything has truth to it) . So after reading that then seeing this i was like WTF. Are my texts being hijacked and sent to them. There was a few other ones with names that at least if they are what i think they are, they hid the name better. I have a screen shot here not sure if i
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am uploaded it right as its my first time. Any help to put my mind at ease. I am headed to bed and i will look more into it in a few hours Thanks!

That's interesting -.- I have no words hopefully oneplus ain't hijacking our text messages.

I think they need to hijack sms and mms just to display it in the Dashboard. At least I hope so.
Nevermind, I am using a custom ROM.

Ryan Mixed said:
That's interesting -.- I have no words hopefully oneplus ain't hijacking our text messages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have found nothing online about it. Very strange, i figured if anybody knew it would be someone on here. I am going to keep digging into it.

@Funk Wizard
My good man, got any inside on this?

fogame said:
@Funk Wizard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You won't hear from him till there's an stable OOS update.

indian84 said:
You won't hear from him till there's an stable OOS update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol true. He might respond though. He answers my messages.
Hope for the best, expect the worst.

Has anybody else seen this or have it on their device?

Jrod333 said:
Has anybody else seen this or have it on their device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same on OOS 9.012

gogoffm said:
I have the same on OOS 9.012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am on 9.0.11 , so it doesn't go away in an update ha ha not that i thought it would. Seems shady but also why on earth would they name it something that seems shady....... I am going to try to install this sms reader module i read about, it logs all data & sms that leave your phone. Find out if any leave that A) i didn't write & B) go somewhere i didn't send...hopefully the app can tell me that..... if it turns out not , Do you or anybody know of an app that can do that ? I think that would solve all my paranoia that every app i have is sending out my information.

Jrod333 said:
I am on 9.0.11 , so it doesn't go away in an update ha ha not that i thought it would. Seems shady but also why on earth would they name it something that seems shady....... I am going to try to install this sms reader module i read about, it logs all data & sms that leave your phone. Find out if any leave that A) i didn't write & B) go somewhere i didn't send...hopefully the app can tell me that..... if it turns out not , Do you or anybody know of an app that can do that ? I think that would solve all my paranoia that every app i have is sending out my information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, the name is really strange we should wait the reply from the OP guy....

I put an aluminum foil cover on my phone, and it went away...
the paranoia here is impressive...

MarcoLK said:
I think they need to hijack sms and mms just to display it in the Dashboard. At least I hope so.
Nevermind, I am using a custom ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does the Dashboard display sms? Maybe I don't understand what the Dashboard is?

wase4711 said:
I put an aluminum foil cover on my phone, and it went away...
the paranoia here is impressive...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... don't want to start drama as I'm sure you didn't intend to, but I'm one of those "paranoid" or conscious as I prefer.
I'm huge on keeping up with geopolitics and some of us should really research the history of China, and I don't mean reading modern, watered-down history literature. China's CCP is the biggest and most vast "Big Brother" in the world except for intelligence in the US/Europe. Not only that, but they are VERY open about the intrusion of privacy amongst it's own people along with the current controversy on China's LONG history of Intellectual Property theft. Read anything re: China's (state owned and funded) Huawei these days (also, notice Huawei's focus on high quality cameras.. eyes everywhere), I will never own anything they produce and I'm sad to say I may be skeptical of this phone now, sadly. And here's a fun-fact.... I'm a Chinese-American, no joke lol
This is very concerning and I think these questions should continue to be asked higher up. I will definitely research this and watch this thread closely.
Please post any finding on it's nature and update us on if we can remove/block the apk. I will do some testing after work.
- Former GE Engineer and Chinese Businessman Charged with Economic Espionage and Theft of GE’s Trade Secrets - An indictment unsealed today charges Xiaoqing Zheng, 56, of Niskayuna, New York, and Zhaoxi Zhang, 47, of Liaoning Province, China, with economic espionage and conspiring to steal General Electric’s (GE’s) trade secrets surrounding turbine technologies, knowing
- The future of the smartphone camera is here, it’s not Apple and it’s disturbing - "Mashable’s Stan Schroeder snapped this picture that, while grainy, gives a sense of the potential spy-power of the phone’s camera."
- Chinese Infiltration in US Reaches ‘Extreme’ Levels - "There are a minimum of 50,000 Chinese Communist Party (CCP) spies at U.S. companies, government agencies, and U.S. military."
- China Infiltration Into U.S. Education System - "Chinese government has infiltrated nearly every sector of the U.S. education system via a package of programs and monetary schemes that seek to indoctrinate American children and bring the Communist government’s propaganda into the classroom, according to a new report by a Senate investigatory body."
- Why Chinese Steel is Unsafe For Your Next Steel Building Project - Weak steel flooded into the market by the Chinese creates weak infrastructure and military components in rival countries... along with destroying the steel market itself.
Edit: After some initial research, OnePlus is a little more distant than Huawei when it comes to state relations.. but keep in mind that China announced last year a new law that "requires cloud services offered to Chinese citizens be operated by Chinese companies and that the data be stored in China". Why do you think that is....? NEVER EVER EVER trust ANYONE/ANYTHING that says they're from/with the government and that they are there to help you. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
This is a tech/dev forum, so I'll stop here to stay on that topic. But please... understand that there's always a threat to your freedom, it's up to the masses to protect it from the >1% of those working tirelessly to take it.
WWG1WGA!!!

that's fine, and being "conscious" is always appropriate in dealing with all things internet..
however, it always makes me chuckle how so many folks are super paranoid of their privacy being invaded, yet they spend half their lives on faceschnook, tweeter, Snapchat, "the gram" and on and on, plus, as I am sure you already know that once you have an email account, an internet plan, a cell phone, a credit card, a car payment, what ever, you can pretty much kiss any semblance of personal privacy goodbye..

wase4711 said:
I put an aluminum foil cover on my phone, and it went away...
the paranoia here is impressive...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Every time I do that it really messes my Wi-Fi signal up...

If you use Chinese aluminum foil, it some how works...

wase4711 said:
that's fine, and being "conscious" is always appropriate in dealing with all things internet..
however, it always makes me chuckle how so many folks are super paranoid of their privacy being invaded, yet they spend half their lives on faceschnook, tweeter, Snapchat, "the gram" and on and on, plus, as I am sure you already know that once you have an email account, an internet plan, a cell phone, a credit card, a car payment, what ever, you can pretty much kiss any semblance of personal privacy goodbye..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are giving alot assumptions (? ) about me when you don't even know me. I don't have half those things you listed and if I did or if anybody did that automatically takes their right to privacy away? I will always be concerned with that and as I do agree you can't stop it all as everything you have is tied to you in some digital public way, it does not mean we should just give up... That's your choice not mine. But let's get back to the original topic... As this is what this site is for. If you want to argue the topics hipocricy and all that good stuff (because I gladly will) we can do that else where.

I never made ONE SINGLE assumption about you, so no pity party for you..
and, you said I "gave up"..where EXACTLY did I say that?
you cant make stuff up to fit your narrative dude, so dont try..
even XDA hides tracking cookies on your devices, so deal with it..
and, please show me where it says we have a "right" to privacy...

..Cory.. said:
Hmmm... don't want to start drama as I'm sure you didn't intend to, but I'm one of those "paranoid" or conscious as I prefer.
I'm huge on keeping up with geopolitics and some of us should really research the history of China, and I don't mean reading modern, watered-down history literature. China's CCP is the biggest and most vast "Big Brother" in the world except for intelligence in the US/Europe. Not only that, but they are VERY open about the intrusion of privacy amongst it's own people along with the current controversy on China's LONG history of Intellectual Property theft. Read anything re: China's (state owned and funded) Huawei these days (also, notice Huawei's focus on high quality cameras.. eyes everywhere), I will never own anything they produce and I'm sad to say I may be skeptical of this phone now, sadly. And here's a fun-fact.... I'm a Chinese-American, no joke lol
This is very concerning and I think these questions should continue to be asked higher up. I will definitely research this and watch this thread closely.
Please post any finding on it's nature and update us on if we can remove/block the apk. I will do some testing after work.
- Chinese Infiltration in US Reaches ‘Extreme’ Levels - "There are a minimum of 50,000 Chinese Communist Party (CCP) spies at U.S. companies, government agencies, and U.S. military."
- China Infiltration Into U.S. Education System - "Chinese government has infiltrated nearly every sector of the U.S. education system via a package of programs and monetary schemes that seek to indoctrinate American children and bring the Communist government’s propaganda into the classroom, according to a new report by a Senate investigatory body."
- Why Chinese Steel is Unsafe For Your Next Steel Building Project - Weak steel flooded into the market by the Chinese creates weak infrastructure and military components in rival countries... along with destroying the steel market itself.
Edit: After some initial research, OnePlus is a little more distant than Huawei when it comes to state relations.. but keep in mind that China announced last year a new law that "requires cloud services offered to Chinese citizens be operated by Chinese companies and that the data be stored in China". Why do you think that is....? NEVER EVER EVER trust ANYONE/ANYTHING that says they're from/with the government and that they are there to help you. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
This is a tech/dev forum, so I'll stop here to stay on that topic. But please... understand that there's always a threat to your freedom, it's up to the masses to protect it from the >1% of those working tirelessly to take it.
WWG1WGA!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will keep researching as it has peaked my curiosity. By the way I agree with you. As I can't take it as far as not owning anything made in China as I find that impossible I do limit it where ever I can. And Mr. Tinfoil hat isn't entirely wrong in stating if you have email. Etc then your privacy has been invaded, if everybody read and understood the fine print in every app alone they download, I bet they would think twice. Google freaking owns us and everything we create... You give it to them the min you agree and download this or that... It's sad really.