Database Users

Can the abuse be toned down please?

Dunno what people's beef is on here ?
Yes there are new members and so on, but some of the foul mouthed attacks I have seen here is disgraceful.
If your mother/wife/daughter or whatever logged on here would you want her to be subjected to such abuse ? No? Thought so!
Tone it down please - if you don't have anything constructive to add to a post, don't bother.
If it makes you feel better about yourself because you feel superior as you know more about HTC/Windows mobile etc. than other people - go back to your ZX81 or whatever but please stop the swearing and nastiness.
Sorry, just never seen such animosity on a forum in my life!

I wish I could say I feel your pain man, but I am a noob as well however I feel the more seasoned vets on here are just tired of the same stupid repetitive questions typically posted by none other than us new guys. I am not saying its right but the way I see it, its kinda like having a little brother or sister that keeps asking the same question over and over and over again while your trying to get something done. My occupation is sales and has been for almost a decade and the first thing I always try and do is look at something from all sides. In doing this it A) Makes me do a search before asking and B) Not feel as bad if I get checked by someone. Just my .42. Additionally I have found if I really cannot find something then I will pm someone I feel is approachable and let them educate me.

From what I have seen lately, the "abuse" has toned down big time around here, were you recently flamed or something, that made you think this?

donzx6 said:
If your mother/wife/daughter or whatever logged on here would you want her to be subjected to such abuse ? No? Thought so!
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bit sexist

Truly!
ChaoticDruid said:
From what I have seen lately, the "abuse" has toned down big time around here, were you recently flamed or something, that made you think this?
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I agree. The replies on this site have become MUCH more mature, helpful, and professional in the last few weeks.
I hope you're not referring to 'now' ... or maybe you're reading through the historical posts to avoid getting flamed.
This is another reason why, no matter how many times a question's been asked, the old-timers should carefully think about the legacy their words will leave behind on these forums.
I find the repeated questions unbearable sometimes, too. But the historical traces of the blatant abusive and immature replies will live with these boards for a very long time, making it unlikely that anyone will like to search for an answer before posting the same question over and over and over and....
-pvs

swtaltima said:
I wish I could say I feel your pain man, but I am a noob as well however I feel the more seasoned vets on here are just tired of the same stupid repetitive questions typically posted by none other than us new guys.
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They make the choice to read the questions then respond in an abusive manor. Its not like a brother or sister who hunt you down to annoy you. I have tried searching for a good tutorial on how to build packages and what not to build my own ROM but the usual thread I see is, "Google It and learn it the way I did." It almost like no one really wants to share their knowledge on certain areas of ROM building. I've tried googling etc. But I have still not run across a decent tutorial. I'd be willing to help make a tutorial if I knew the complete process. I've seen others claim this forum is for XDA "developers" and if you are not a developer you should look elsewhere for "help." The only way to become a developer is to learn. Most people learn by reading and asking questions. I just don't understand why people insist on berating others for asking innocent questions. I have searched for answers before and not found it. Then later I am reading a thread and I do see the answer to my question but it was not worded the way I say things possible because of language differences. So it slipped throught the cracks of the search. Should I be verbally abused for asking my question? Probably not, especially seeing as how the diversity on this forum is great. Many different primary languages and knowledge levels. It seems like before ROM cooking for Hermes was possible people were all fine and cordial with each other. Then boom, cooked ROMs became possible and it turned into if you cant help me finish my ROM and let me put the donte link in my signature I don't want to help you.
Well thats my take.
PS- if someone helps me grasp the art of ROM building I will make a tutorial and do my best to make it simple to understand for everybody.
Jokinawa

There are still a few bad apples around thou & most of us know them but just keep to our selfs, too much of that n00b flame go read wiki or search google, they can tell you to read the wiki but too lazy to type a quick fast reply to a simple question....

I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s

jokinawa said:
They make the choice to read the questions then respond in an abusive manor. Its not like a brother or sister who hunt you down to annoy you. I have tried searching for a good tutorial on how to build packages and what not to build my own ROM but the usual thread I see is, "Google It and learn it the way I did." It almost like no one really wants to share their knowledge on certain areas of ROM building. I've tried googling etc. But I have still not run across a decent tutorial. I'd be willing to help make a tutorial if I knew the complete process. I've seen others claim this forum is for XDA "developers" and if you are not a developer you should look elsewhere for "help." The only way to become a developer is to learn. Most people learn by reading and asking questions. I just don't understand why people insist on berating others for asking innocent questions. I have searched for answers before and not found it. Then later I am reading a thread and I do see the answer to my question but it was not worded the way I say things possible because of language differences. So it slipped throught the cracks of the search. Should I be verbally abused for asking my question? Probably not, especially seeing as how the diversity on this forum is great. Many different primary languages and knowledge levels. It seems like before ROM cooking for Hermes was possible people were all fine and cordial with each other. Then boom, cooked ROMs became possible and it turned into if you cant help me finish my ROM and let me put the donte link in my signature I don't want to help you.
Well thats my take.
PS- if someone helps me grasp the art of ROM building I will make a tutorial and do my best to make it simple to understand for everybody.
Jokinawa
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By the way, they do hunt people down with PM, e-mail, IM, etc...
Here my take
The Art of ROM building does not happen overnight and it is not for everyone. You are also correct there are no A-Z tutorials on how to do it. Nonetheless, there is a lot of information on how to get your feet wet. It requires certain skill set in order to develop good cooked ROM.
Skill set: Search and Read both threads and wiki, Development (someone with a development background is preferred), Cab (building and extracting) PPC registry, Windows Mobile OS (understanding how things work), device infrastructure (understanding how things work with that particular device, because they are not all made equal), understanding you could brick your expensive device with the one wrong turn. Most important patience and keep you changes to a minimum until you get the hang of it.
The list of requirements can go on but I figure with the above information you should have an idea. It takes months of reading, searching, and trying things out in order to understand how to cook. While you are researching you also want to keep with new findings, that means you have to stay on top of up coming new threads. It is a crazy cycle and some of us can keep up with it but I assure you it is not for a lot PPL.
Oh, I forgot one more thing, you also have keep up with your full time job (you know, the one you get paid for).

Thank You
lpsi2000: Thank you. I almost have it down. The only issue I had was one of my apps did not make the start menu icon and I posted it in a thread directed towards one of the kitchens and thus far has been ignored for a week or so. I posted what I put in the initflashfiles.dat etc. It makes a shortcut but appears as a folder link to the /Windows directory and not a shortcut to the EXE. I will get it eventually though.
DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread.
mrvanx: Yes, you are always very helpful.
Thank You all.
jokinawa
<polish>Shines his new Senior Member badge.</polish>

I agree that is has gotten much better in the past few weeks. I also use the ignore list to block out a couple of folks who repeatedly belittle others with their uneducated and profane flaming.

Here is my take. WTF cares
you want a bucket to catch those tears?

jokinawa said:
lpsi2000: Thank you. I almost have it down. The only issue I had was one of my apps did not make the start menu icon and I posted it in a thread directed towards one of the kitchens and thus far has been ignored for a week or so. I posted what I put in the initflashfiles.dat etc. It makes a shortcut but appears as a folder link to the /Windows directory and not a shortcut to the EXE. I will get it eventually though.
DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread.
mrvanx: Yes, you are always very helpful.
Thank You all.
jokinawa
<polish>Shines his new Senior Member badge.</polish>
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The way I get around some of the issues with applications not working properly, I flashed the ROM, take a copy of device registry and files then install the app on the device and then compare it to see what was changed. From there I normally address it with my cooked ROM.
I must disagree with this comment " DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread." although I have done it at time when the search is not obvious.
If you spoon feed the search every time, then the person will never learn how to search. I have seen PPL on this board expecting other people to do search for them and also provide the answers. Trust me there are a lot of lazy people on this forum.

mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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Exteremely, MrVanx... EXTREMELY! Only to be outdone by your wonderful guides...easy to follow and up to date. You provide a wonderful service to these forums, and I always look forward to your posts.
Sorry I haven't yet made a donation in your direction. It will be coming soon.
All the best,
-pvs

austinsnyc said:
Here is my take. WTF cares
you want a bucket to catch those tears?
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Easy there bro... that kinda attitude got the elf kicked out of the house...

You know I would go easy just everytime my faith is restored in the people here the stupid bug seems to bite again. like asking questions that where answerd in a post right above or someone wanting to be spoon fed its almost to the point where no one wants to do anything for themselves. that's pretty sad if you ask me im sure most of the cooks here did not receive the amount of help that has been given in just the past month. I understand helping people but I also understand earning respect and until that's done give me a reason why I should spoon feed when there is a search button and google.

mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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pretty obvious answer(s)

why create another thread in 'Hermes Mobile 6', this should be put in the 'General Section'
and as far as i have seen it the abuse has been dramatically in the past few weeks

Sometimes the abuse is (IMHO) justified.
This post generally makes my blood boil http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=311698 - the asshole keeps appearing in many guises, doesn't want to help but only make money. If this is the first post you see when you log on you get pissed off, then get carried away with the 'Flashing LSVW bricked my V3' type of threads.
In my opinion, ronfin44 was perfectly justified in (mildly) flaming this guy.

mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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Awww fishing for praise now? ahhahah!
Of course it's been helpful.. Honestly, I'm pretty impressed with the impartial, well thought replies that you always give.
[mumbles]Wish I could say the same for me hee hee![/mumbles]

General thoughts about XDA

You know I have always come to XDA with my windows mobile phones and now my g1. I never made an account because I've always done my research on how to do things on my phone. But just recently there are a lot of new users comming to xda to learn and ask questions and achieve the new things we have on our phones. Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum. like a lot of people say why not let the mods take care of it, why flame the user? what do you achieve? do you feel better about yourself? I have always loved XDA and i may not have had that much to give to the community. I also want to say thank you to all the developers putting forth all the work.

XDA is like having a girlfriend. It's fun at times but mostly it's hell. But you stick around so you can pound that pearl! hahaha jk

ernvillanueva90 said:
You know I have always come to XDA with my windows mobile phones and now my g1. I never made an account because I've always done my research on how to do things on my phone. But just recently there are a lot of new users coming to xda to learn and ask questions and achieve the new things we have on our phones. Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum. like a lot of people say why not let the mods take care of it, why flame the user? what do you achieve? do you feel better about yourself? I have always loved XDA and i may not have had that much to give to the community. I also want to say thank you to all the developers putting forth all the work.
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I think its good to do some Trial & Error before asking some questions.Don't ask a question that was answered above your post. I don't like when people start spamming or trolling and they say the rom is slow just cause they don't know what they're doing. Now the search here isn't perfect and finding some things can be difficult but if you do xda+(rom name,etc) you should find the thread with google.Instead of making a new thread like how to root dream/G1m do root G1 on google and you will find something.

Ace42 said:
I think its good to do some Trial & Error before asking some questions.Don't ask a question that was answered above your post. I don't like when people start spamming or trolling and they say the rom is slow just cause they don't know what they're doing. Now the search here isn't perfect and finding some things can be difficult but if you do xda+(rom name,etc) you should find the thread with google.Instead of making a new thread like how to root dream/G1m do root G1 on google and you will find something.
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I most agree with you but why flame the user is what im getting at. just the rudeness and the snide remarks. what benifit does the community get from this? if anything they are driving away people that you never know may become very good developers. just let the mod deal with it and redirect them and they will eventually learn. i myself dont like to ask for help. i rely on google and on the search. im just doing this for all the new members that may join xda. i mean these people that are quick to flam someone on how they broke a rule bc they posted in the wrong section arent they breaking a rule as well by flaming the other user? or insulting them? i never see anything being said about that... just my thoughts. from this point foward mod go ahead and delete this or do what you please with this. i just thought id speak my mind for once rather than just sit by and watch people get flammed or instulted and from this be discouraged and driven away from this forum.

ernvillanueva90 said:
I most agree with you but why flame the user is what im getting at. just the rudeness and the snide remarks. what benifit does the community get from this? if anything they are driving away people that you never know may become very good developers. just let the mod deal with it and redirect them and they will eventually learn. i myself dont like to ask for help. i rely on google and on the search. im just doing this for all the new members that may join xda. i mean these people that are quick to flam someone on how they broke a rule bc they posted in the wrong section arent they breaking a rule as well by flaming the other user? or insulting them? i never see anything being said about that... just my thoughts. from this point foward mod go ahead and delete this or do what you please with this. i just thought id speak my mind for once rather than just sit by and watch people get flammed or instulted and from this be discouraged and driven away from this forum.
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I didn't mean its right to do that,cause the rules say to respect other members so they are going against that. I think if they have nothing nice to say then keep your trap shut real tight.

It's just how this forum seems to operate. It's massive, with a very lenient policy on trolling and off-topic harassment. Combine that with a userbase that seems to trend on the younger side, you get a lot of kids who think they're anonymous and because of that, think they should just flame the hell out of anyone who asks a question.

I only respect people that try. If it's available already on xda search and google search. I wasn't spoon fed and I will not help themselves. If we say there is already a guide that show you how to install adb, root, unroot, wipe, flash etc. we mean that someone took the time to create the guide for that and one can easily find it by searching.
But there are some user level things that xda needs to address, such as stickied updated user guides a better more forum level faq. I think something like that needs to be created which may cut down on common repeat questions, but why do that when it says to search first on the first sticky but they still don't anyway. It's a loosing battle any way you cut it.
Better rom layout in the dream section anyway would be a huge plus. Even as simple as have a [main dev - 1.5/hero -- 1.6 -- 2.x -- 2.x sense] would be big for the android section.

I think what makes XDA different from a lot of other internet forums is the subject matter being discussed...it is very technical in nature. Rooting, flashing of ROMs, recovery images, themes, and SPLs is pretty heavy stuff.
Lots of non-technical people own these phones, yet it takes a technical person to mod them, so naturally a lot of basic questions will be asked and naturally those already in the know will grow tired of being asked.
It was just a few weeks ago that I didn't have a clue about modding Android, but after reading a lot and asking a little, I was able to catch up pretty quickly, and I have XDA to thank for that. My only advice to my fellow forum members is because of the highly technical nature of this forum, a little extra patience is required compared to other internet forums. Yet at the same time adequate policing of mis-posting and unnecessary posting is required. Just gotta find the happy medium!

i think my autoresponse to people emailing me at [email protected] really says it all (as well as my signature - the patience bit)
the number of emails asking "how do i root" "what is root" "what is a custom rom" and even the classic "wat duz dis shizzle do yo?"
This is an automated response
Your email has been received.
This email address is exclusively for help and support with the
CM-Updater and CM ROMs.
Emails asking "how do I root?" "how do I get CM" and "what is this app
for" WILL BE IGNORED.
Emails using poor language and/or grammar such as "wat duz dis do?"
WILL BE IGNORED.
Emails using bad language and/or are rude WILL BE IGNORED.
CyanogenMOD is for the Dream/G1 and Magic/MT3G only.
If you are inquiring as to whether or not it will run on the droid,
hero or any other phone for that matter - YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE A
REPLY.
If you are looking for the IM app which was removed after 4.2.9.1
Look Here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5208623#post5208623
I am NOT cyanogen nor do I hold any great pull with him - we just
mutually benefit from each other.
I WILL NOT forward messages to him or request features on your behalf.
If you have not received a reply within 24 hours then the chances are
your original email did not fit this criteria.
My apologies for being so strict. 20-70 emails a month for this can
get annoying when it is often down to people not reading properly.
If you require more in depth help, please consider SEARCHING the XDA forums.
As a last resort, start a new thread (in the QnA section please, not
the development section).
I WILL NOT HOLD YOUR HAND AND GIVE YOU ALL THE ANSWERS
Thank you for using the CM-Updater
Kind regards
Garok89
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ernvillanueva90 said:
Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum.
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To be honest, if it drives away idiots who can't be arsed using the search button or even Google on their Google phones (god forbid!) then the forum will be a better place without them.
If someone posts "What's root? i can't find it on the market." they deserve to get flamed. (a surprisingly common question i get asked a lot, by the way.)
We were all beginners once, i appreciate that, but you won't get anywhere and you wont learn anything if you don't figure stuff out for yourself.

this site is so huge that sometimes a search wont find what you want, either that or it does and its lost amongst all the flames and other questions. sometimes it takes asking a question again to get what your looking for... i try to find what im doing and read up on it all before i do stuff new, like flashing the 10mb ram hack i did recently for instance. did a lot of reading and searches. and for a final to make sure asked some good people over at the irc channel...
i can see why some people get flamed, but sometimes its just an ego trip some geek thats made this stuff his life is on...
btw xda is the best site for this stuff, with all the flamers, theres still some good people that are glad to help

Meltus said:
To be honest, if it drives away idiots who can't be arsed using the search button or even Google on their Google phones (god forbid!) then the forum will be a better place without them.
If someone posts "What's root? i can't find it on the market." they deserve to get flamed. (a surprisingly common question i get asked a lot, by the way.)
We were all beginners once, i appreciate that, but you won't get anywhere and you wont learn anything if you don't figure stuff out for yourself.
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I can understand what you are saying, but people need to be more understanding as well.
I was once flamed for not using the search button when I asked about getting really short battery life with a specific ROM. Some asshat told me that I needed to use the search function because it had already been discussed. Well, type a common subject like battery life into the search function and you're going to get a gagillion responses (just got 20+ pages doing it). After saying that in the thread, I was then told by the same guy that I should go back and read the thread by this person. That's all fine and dandy, but when the thread is damn near 150 pages long, that's not really an option either. To me, it seems as though this forum often lacks basic common courtesy unless you're one of the frequent posters even with non-beginner questions.

A Small Rant....

In my past year being an android owner I have noticed a change of attitude in the development threads. When I bought my vibrant when it first came out a friend referred me to XDA. I was new to the android OS and didn't really know too much about how to root, flash, etc. This site taught me everything I know about my phone that I do today, and I learned by using the SEARCH button. I hate to ask questions especially if I was the one to break it. I have "soft" bricked my phone more times than I can count. And everytime I do and its something new that I have never seen I use the SEARCH button and like magic answers appear on my computer screen.
But back to my original gripe about the attitude in the dev section. Used to, people read the warnings that were CLEARLY posted in the OP of a new rom. They also followed directions like the rom dev posted. Now there were a few people who didn't and ****ed their **** up but nothing like there is today. I was a noob back then and really didn't understand half the stuff of what was posted. But I read and researched and now today I finally have an understanding (albeit small, but an understanding none the less).
For the last couple of months though everytime a new rom comes out and we'll use these 2 as an example (Frost by Krylon and then CM7) people fill the thread with pointless ****. Yeah I understand that problems and glitches need to be reported but after 10 pages of the same **** over and over again I think the dev understands that "hey this issue may need to be resolved ". Once 1000 people same the same **** about a issue they found STOP posting **** people. It clutters the ****ing thread for people who actually read for the sake of not bricking their $250 device.
Take for instance the CM7 thread right now. If you sit there and read every page you are going to find at least 10 people that have used the 2g/3g toggle widget and ****ed their **** up by doing it. Even though it CLEARLY STATES IN THE OP not to use it. Then they wanted to complain and say it was an issue with the rom and it should have never been released yet, but because of their actions and stupididty they caused the problem to begin with.
Then in the Frost thread people are just ASSHOLES. Krylon worked his ass off to put out a 2.2.1 TW rom. These people who flashed a rom that was FREE for them started demanding he do this, and put this into the rom, and blah ****ing blah. PEOPLE these guys and girls do this **** in their free time for FREE. And if you like what they put out then by all means donate. But we have a saying down here "Don't **** with the hands that feed you."
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
Pretty soon if the *****ing and nit picky **** continues the devs will just leave. Kinda like Eugene has done before. Like I said these guys do this **** for free in their spare time for fun but here recently with some of the comments that I seen posted it has kinda taken the fun out of it.
This is a community, basically we are one big android family. We all have a common goal and that is to make our stock phone run at its full potential. Part of the fun of flashing a new rom is seeing all the modifications and themes that were put into it. I have always thought of a new rom like opening a present on Christmas morning when I was like 5 years old. Yeah sure you might have a bad flash or 2 but that's the other part of the fun. Learning how to fix the mistake that was made. That way you learn from your experiences and the next time that happens, hell you will know what to do to fix it.
Im almost done I promise.
In short just use the search bar before posting an issue. I promise the answers you seek are out there. I know because I have had the phone to pc error, the E. Can't mount and I seen that error message several different ways. But also read read read the OP because 9 times out of 10 the devs already know about the issue or have posted what is not working and you should not use that feature of the rom.
Thanks for your time reading this and if it sounds like a madman ranting you can thank tapatalk and the small screen. It was hard to see and that's why there are so many paragraphs. But I felt this has been needing to be said for a while now and reading the cm7 thread tonight was the icebreaker.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant

+1
I lurked on the Vibrant forums for a good month and a half before I even made my first post (coincidentally, it was the time when JI6 was going OTA). Before I even made my first Vibrant related post, I knew about the terms Odin and Froyo that doesnt brick and all the other goodies (although I was no expert at the time). It helped me immensely the first time I soft-bricked and it kept me from panic.
Reading is a lost art.

I know if people only read more it would save a lot of headaches.

I agree 100% with the FIRST 3 paragraphs, after that I fell asleep. Search button is everyones friend.

I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant

vibrant2010 said:
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
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I agree totally!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing I would add is that just skimming over the OP does not get it you need to read it THOROUGHLY AT LEAST TWICE and sometimes three times. I know I have to and even than I am ashamed to say I have not understood key points in the OP. I cannot even imagine how the Dev feels when reading the thread with all of the redundant questions and statements. I am so appreciative to the devs and to this community. Without them I would not have any of the very small level of knowledge and experience(very small) and the confidence to mess with this 250.00 phone. A tip of my hat to the entire community(those that read) and most specifically the DEVS!!!!!!!!!

But,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=876777
Is a sticked post on every forum subsection...
Maybe the mods need to post in ALL CAPS!
So chances are... if people don't read the stickies (which answers most of the questions)
Then... well...

I think that the fact that the Vibrant is so difficult to hard brick and people's lack of attention to detail lead to a lot of the dumb questions. While that is annoying, people demanding the devs do this or that and the general rudeness is what really ticks me off. Asking that a feature be added nicely is one thing, but telling them to do something crosses the line. The Frost and MIUI threads are key examples of this. The sense of entitlement around here is dumbfounding.

Have you seen the MIUI thread? Its been cleaned at least 5 times. That thread alone makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. Here's a summary of some of the dipshits that wandered in there:
"I was forced to run this buggy beta on my phone for a week"
"This never should have been released" (never heard of beta testing apparently)
"He's sick? I don't care, updates or I want my money back.....oh wait..."
I love Android, but there are too many ****ing children here with no respect. (Makes me sound like an old man)
Only on the internet, can you have someone who provides an awesome service, at no charge to anyone, and people still be absolute pricks to them.

Haha you remind me of how i used to be on this forum with my crusader posts
unfortunately most of the **** you are talking about WILL NEVER change. its just the way it is. everyone is lazy to a certain degree, but some people are much lazier than others. its just how the world turns. and once you start giving these people hand-outs, for lack of a better term, it will only make it worse.
vibrant2010 said:
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
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+10 on this^^^

I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature. I think the problem with most people is they do not know how "find" what they are looking for with ease. For example switching search entire post instead of search title will give information overload in the search results. To even use these options you must select advanced search. But all anyone says is use search. When a noob is faced with 10 pages of results he/she is goin to start a new thread or repeat a post. The op point is valid not new.

ntellegence said:
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i disagree with you. YES rant threads, in general, accomplish absolutely nothing.
with that said, just because the OP is annoyed with some very relevant problems, does not mean its his responsibility to coach people on basic forum rules. the rules are easily accessible, and honestly....lets not kid ourselves....these people know that the search function is there, they dont need us to tell them.
in fact, id rather see a rant like this than a "search function" thread. "searchsearchsearch" is the oldest ***** in the book. people arent going to search. thats the way it is, theres no reason to start a thread on it, its a problem you can find on ANY forum on the internet......and there are quite a few out there.
in terms of this rant, the OP does bring up some other points that are development specific that are important.

Being on XDA for 3 years, I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
To that, I say I do my best to make sure the stickies have the most common questions and are updated, and I solicit constantly for people to help me monitor/update. I feel the Dev Bible does a good job of this too.
So, ASSUME the searched information is correct.
And yes, do SEARCH!
EDIT, and the OP was so long I gave up on reading it all.

s15274n said:
I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is very true. there are times when you will read something, but youre feeling over-cautious, and you want to just "hear it" directly from someone just to verify.
i really dont have any problem with that at all, its perfectly understandable. problem is its impossible to know when someones doing that, or if theyre just being a sack of sht.

hey am a living proff people learn from mistakes ............LOOK AT ME NOW )

Well said.......
But, people don't read and many that do don't understand what is being said. That contributes to 1/2 the problem,,,,,,But---
Couldn't agree with you more

Failure to search pales in comparison to the flat out disrespect and sense of entitlement shown by some members.
As TopShelf said, getting people to search is a problem that pretty much comes with the territory. Also as was mentioned, people want confirmation, or they feel their situation is somehow unique enough to warrant its own topic/post. We were all new once, so this is understandable.
There is no excuse, however, for the selfish behavior of a lot of these people.
Yes this is a rant thread that offers no real solutions, but short of banning anyone who steps out of line (I am not suggesting this should be done), there aren't really any real solutions. Its just good to vent every now and then, that's why its called a rant.

Problem: People don't read.
Solution: Text-to-speech. (ooo and make it Linda's voice)

Well said.
It's nice to see how passionate some of us can get, and I think that's what makes these forums so good. Sadly there's always going to be these idiots who should have purchased iphones that don't know how to read the OP or follow instructions. They just get flash happy and f*ck up their phones then blame it on the dev's all because they don't know how to read. Sadly what those imbeciles don't realize is that they are slowly getting rid of the dev's who make the roms. Without them we'd be stuck with boring devices.
I'd personally like to see more bans. Ask a question that has been answered in the OP: BOOM, warning. Make that same stupid mistake again, BANNED! XDA needs to start weeding out the morons. This isn't a place for brain dead pot smoking teens who dnt no how 2 sp3ll. It's a place for learning, helping and modding.
Ahh it feels nice to rant.

Paging Dr B said:
XDA needs to start weeding out the morons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA say goodbye to 75% of the members, some might say myself included
lets face it, its hard to judge members, because every single member is going to have different opinions about every other member.
mho: they need to enforce the rules more. they need to start disclipining. whether its a 2-post noob, or a 2000-post vet....if someone gets disrespectful....drop the hammer. AND DISPLAY DISCPLINE COUNTS ON USER PROFILE AND WHEREVER THEY POST. we have a "thank you meter", how about a "**** you" meter. bad reputation should be meaured as well, so people know who they are dealing with, and members are held accountable for the way they act.
theres too much politics, and THATS the problem. we have noobs being noobs, but we also have old-timers running around thinking they can say whatever to whoever. and to be honest...i get much more upset when someone gets egotistical rather than when someone doesnt search.
theres too much "internet muscle" on this forum, and frankly its embarassing. some dudes seem to think that just cause they know how to mod a services.jar means they have some sort of special talent, which entitles them to some sort of virtual ego. please dude, it aint that hard, a little modesty never hurt anybody.
NO ONE here should be immune to discipline. from noob to dev....same rules for everybody....that is XDAs biggest weakness.

To all Android newcomers on XDA:

Hi there.
If you're new to Android, how about you actually figure out the OS before you go ***** in the forums to developers?
People seem to think that XDA is a place to go get updates for their phone, and then complain about how it has problems.
It isn't. Developers don't owe you squat. They put out what they WANT to put out. XDA is a development forum, made by developers for developers. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
Also, people tend to ***** about problems that they caused themselves. For example, I see people complaining in kernel threads about how they undervolted their phone by -75mv in SetCPU and then complain about how they got a freeze or a SoD and proceed to ask the developer to "fix kernal pl0x".
If you mess with system settings, take a second to think that what you're doing *might* be causing problems.
If you DO have a legitimate problem, take a second to think that someone else might have the problem. Search the thread and check if someone else has the same problem. One thing that is somewhat recurring is people saying "herp I'm too lazy to search 5 pages in the thread". If you're too lazy to click your mouse a few times, kindly consider driving off a cliff.
Also, fun fact, did you know that every time you ***** about battery life a baby seal drowns? True story.
Let your battery go through 2 charge cycles, check for wakelocks on your phone with BetterBatteryStats. If all else fails, consider charging your phone overnight. It's not like you live in an Amazonian forest with no power and need your smartphone to last for a month without charging. Go buy an old Nokia if you need your battery to last long.
Here's another thought: try to make your post even remotely readable. Use proper English, it helps us actually understand whatever you're trying to say.
Spare us all headaches and use your common sense.
Here's some more reading material: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19643797&postcount=5298
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leech_(computing)

Good point well made.

Well said - although I might have said in more gentle terms But there is no doubt whatsoever that any settings, ROM flashing, kernel flashing etc. is at the users own risk and no developer can be held responsible for any damage!
Isn't it possible somehow to make a checklist for new users that are important before they mess around? As they are new we got to help them in order to avoid the "stupid" questions.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Agree with you that XDA is a Developers forum
But on a side note I am sure Devs like that their work is appreciated and in turn I am sure it motivates them to continue working towards better roms and stuff.
I have seen most Devs on XDA take it as creative criticism and always try to get work arounds preety quickly which is think is super brilliant.
You can't stop people *****ing around its each person's nature and I guess we can just ignore them and carry on with the good things that XDA has to offer us.
Besides N00bs will be Noobs - I still am and grateful for XDA Dev's and Members for their Support
Still a Good Point made...

While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.

Totally agree. But with android selling like wild fire the noob intake will increase like crazy. Call it pure laziness to be honest lol.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Logi_Ca1 said:
without users there's no need for developers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol.... looks like you really know how this site started..

As i said on a previous thread temporary bannings need to start being issued should people come on and start asking questions which have been answered dozens of times before, i don't know if it's possible in the registration process so newbies can be informed that they need to use the search function first and foremost for any questions where they will most likely find the answer to their questions and only if they cant may then then start a thread where they will most likely get plenty of assistance,when i first joined it was nowhere near as bad as it is now, it's quite painful coming on here sometimes and looking at the same old questions day in,day out.

@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
Forum definition: A public meeting place for open discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I also may add when i first joined or rather a few weeks before i registered i done a bit of reading on XDA to try and familiar myself with some of the topics and jargon used as i didn't really have a clue about anything like this, but back to my original point, use the search function and chances are it will bring up something that your looking for at this stage i cant think of anything that hasn't been covered on here with regard to the SGSII.

ithehappy said:
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You see, forums are made to discuss specific things. This particular forum was made to discuss development for Windows Mobile and Android. Therefore, we should keep discussion specific to development. And I'm pretty sure development talk isn't "FIX KERNAL PL0X BATTERY DRAINZZ!".
But then again, what do I know.

Maybe a little aggressive, especially to new members, I understand the point being made, but I like many others have come here to ask for advice and share my finding with other like minded android users, some of the advice I've found most useful has been from other new members with similar issues and questions. Be careful not to frighten new folks off. I've seen threads like this destroy forums in the past. It's all about the wording, and coming across friendly, but allowing folks to understand how the forum works. From what I've read, there are plenty of warning on the rooting and firmware threads, so users have been warned before they try anything vaguely risky. There will always be those who don't heed the advice, but those folks ain't likely to read this thread. Anyhoots peace to all, as this a great place.

so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.

Seifer1975 said:
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not bashing noobs, I'm telling them to stop being idiots.

I agree with the op.
Each time I have come accross a problem, it has been remedied by returning to the developer's thread to follow the instructions properly, along with taking on board what tips fellow members have said in the assosiated thread.
If I can figure that much out -which isn't rocket science- then I am sure that other should be able to. If only we lived in 'should land'.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

At this point I'm glad that we still have developers here. I couldn't develop my way out of a hostage situation, but am willing to:
Follow the instructions,
Search if I have a problem,
Verify that I did indeed follow the instructions,
Provide a detailed description of problem if I can't rectify,
Present the developer with any info they may need to diagnose (logs, etc...),
Respect the distinction between Q&A and development,
When it doubt watch the video again, you're a noob f-stick and so am I,
Don't piss and moan when I have an issue, I elected to not have a stock phone, nobody held a gun to my head, but if you piss and moan it makes me want to hold a Kalashnikov to yours: search, contribute, learn to troubleshoot.
The Me Generation, need I say more?

I've been sickened keeping up with the siriya thread at the amount of people asking dumb questions too. It doesn't seem to be getting any better.
I work retail and I barely barely have enough free time or energy to keep up with playing with my galaxy s. I have no idea how these developers even do it.
People need to learn some respect for these amazing guys. But I guess the amount of noobs will only ever increase. So I guess the devs will need to adapt.
Anyway, one reason I'm posting this is because it's my 10th post and this allows me to go and post my thanks in the syriya thread!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

Logi_Ca1 said:
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that's one of the things. Developers don't do it just for people to use it. They do it for learning, testing, and fun. There were custom roms for smartphones when only other developers used it. Did that stop them? Nope we got great things like Cookies Hometab and MaxSense. Everytime I hear "without users their would be no developers" I just have to sit back and say "really what do you think we have been doing on XDA for years before the average user even knew what a smartphone was?"

There is a lot of pointless stuff posted on xda now, often by people who show no respect for the fact that everything here is free of charge. The price of free is that you do a little legwork & read the threads before posting crap like "help i bricked my phone" or "why don't you take the softkeys off the ics gui" which must have been asked 3000 times, when will you release it, which is the best rom? etc.
The admins asked for suggestions last year on how to manage the influx of new members. I didn't suggest anything so I now reap what I sowed. I do have some suggestions now though; let the devs, admins and people with something to download start new threads for free and make the people starting helpdesk or spammy type threads pay, use a keyword or keyphrase blocklist to stop people who can't be bothered to read or who want to ask unreasonable questions from clogging up the threads.
Xda now has adverts so obviously the more the merrier for revenue but if the target is quantity over quality the mods shouldn't complain when they go and clean all the spam out of threads, instead they should just say thanks for your spam please call again soon.
So what is the aim, quality or quantity?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

umadbro?!?!?!

Hyperdroid thread closed :(.

Another pissed of dev is clearly seems . Love using the surgeon.. was a lil tricky at first but worked a treat. And also people are using there work without no credit being given. Piss take as hyperdroid base is mega stable and has good features ...heres hoping he comes back... soon. He did kind of hint it at the end lol . What do yooooooou make of it.
looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!

Hopefully the "team" (there's more than one man) are working on something good to come back with. I can completely understand why they closed it because the amount of lazy ass people that post in there looking for general support was a joke. They're nice people but there's a limit which has obviously been reached. We have a general section for general chit chat but people again are too lazy to use multiple fora to get what they require. Unfortunately the "user" will eventually ruin the "dev" focus of these forums.

In my opinion there should be a 100 post rule before you can even post in the developer forums. This would force the noobs top read the forums.
Sent from inside a black hole.

shr33kant said:
In my opinion there should be a 100 post rule before you can even post in the developer forums. This would force the noobs top read the forums.
Sent from inside a black hole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% agreed. I'm sure it's been suggested before but always worth posting it in the support and feedback forum, go on you know you want to
Only backlash this would have is 100 posts elsewhere to get sufficient posts for them to plague the dev forums as they do now with the 10. It would possibly deter them though, anything's worth a try.

shr33kant said:
In my opinion there should be a 100 post rule before you can even post in the developer forums. This would force the noobs top read the forums.
Sent from inside a black hole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
you should not lump together all newbies.
There are also the other one's, which read a lot and learn by doing.
Although I'm new to Android at all, I try to help where I can (it's not much..) and you won't find nooby questions. Because all one want to know is somewhere anwered here.
Maybe Dev's should set up 2 threads, one for Q&A with a faq at beginning, supported mostly by the "key users", and one only for dev-related matters (no answers to silly questions...)
Only my opinion of course...
Regards
Norbert

100 post rule is bull, ya no why because they will just make new threads and ask the dumb ass questions.
I'm not a noob either i been here abour 5 years and watch this place go down hill so fast over the past year. I used to spend hours in the Leo section answering posts as demon man and got fed up of it. It isnt just the new people pissing devs off its the mods also there part to blame with there lame ideas, most of them just jump on there high horse. yes I can totally understand why devs just give up but then you have the likes of codeworkx who will tell you you will get abuse if you ask stupid dumb ass questions and abuse he will give, yet the stupid questions are still asked.
It doesnt take 10 mins to find 90% of your answers on here although the search button is a load of gash imo stickies are the best answer of read a few pages back but nobody seems to wanna do that anymore, hell the day i got my leo and touch diamond i nearly fudged them for not reading but after half hour of reading and looking you can find your answer the best bet would be that new topics have to be moderated first instead of the same question all the time go through and see how many posts there have been in the past 2 weeks about people screwing there efs folder that should be a stickie imo in bold.

I've been using xda for several years. I never post anything as the answer always seem to be available already posted my someone else.
Recently XDA has been an increasingly unpleasant place to visit. People seem to be unable to read more than the last 2 threads, have any sense of how to be even slightly polite and have no concept of the hard work an generosity of those developing and sharing. If i was a dev i'd have taken my bat and ball home ages ago.
I'll go back to reading, and tinkering with my phone.
1 post nearer 100
Many thanks to all those who give so much. Especially Pongster and his team.

Xda was awesome back in the windows mobile days Devs and noobs were very humble,civil helpful. There was no competition among devs and everyone used to work together.
Since android has come in this place has pretty much gone downhill. It is all about fame,donations now.
No offence, just a general observation.
Cheers.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

noke955 said:
Hi,
you should not lump together all newbies.
There are also the other one's, which read a lot and learn by doing.
Although I'm new to Android at all, I try to help where I can (it's not much..) and you won't find nooby questions. Because all one want to know is somewhere anwered here.
Maybe Dev's should set up 2 threads, one for Q&A with a faq at beginning, supported mostly by the "key users", and one only for dev-related matters (no answers to silly questions...)
Only my opinion of course...
Regards
Norbert
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 threads seems good to me. .
looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!

Extropy has hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.
Lets hope something changes, It's no fault of Xda, it's just that over the last year Androids popularity has exploded, and thus the number of newcomers and freeloaders.
BUT what angers me is that for every so called "Annoying noob post" in the threads there are 10X responses from established members that are much more aggressive and rude in tone in comparison. I feel its quicker to help someone and guide them In a constructive way. It's annoying sure, but saves comeback questions, heated exchanges and tempers blowing up.
Something needs to change, but its going to be a tough one.
One things for sure, I've seen many Good devs leave, soon there will be threads with a lot more Kangs then there already are.
I hope this gets sorted.
Cheers guys

jaksau said:
Xda was awesome back in the windows mobile days Devs and noobs were very humble,civil helpful. There was no competition among devs and everyone used to work together.
Since android has come in this place has pretty much gone downhill. It is all about fame,donations now.
No offence, just a general observation.
Cheers.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used to be a nice place to come back in the winmo days people answered questions civil and you learnt to read now everybody wants spoon feeding info.

jaksau said:
Xda was awesome back in the windows mobile days Devs and noobs were very humble,civil helpful. There was no competition among devs and everyone used to work together.
Since android has come in this place has pretty much gone downhill. It is all about fame,donations now.
No offence, just a general observation.
Cheers.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. Donations are fine in my opinion. I mean its hours spent trying to create something that everyone and yourself will like and share it for free. So a lil donation never hurts . With rom competition dont really see it tbh... i just think stealing some1 elses work is a piss take.
looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!

androidkid311 said:
I disagree. Donations are fine in my opinion. I mean its hours spent trying to create something that everyone and yourself will like and share it for free. So a lil donation never hurts . With rom competition dont really see it tbh... i just think stealing some1 elses work is a piss take.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do agree with what you are saying with the donations.. in an ideal world.
xda can always do this as an experiment.
see who remains when no donations are allowed.
pretty sure the kangs will stop rather quickly
as for the rule of 100 posts, its pretty easy to rack up, especially if they treat xda like twitter.
a combination of both number of years and post rule, with years taking precedence.
for ppl to post in dev threads anyway.

Sorry but I'm starting to get mixed feelings here. I've always been on their side and understand that they can get fed up. But it's as if being a noob is not permitted in their thread. No disrespect but they are coming across as elitist.
As for the devs that use their work without all due credit they are destroying xda spirit.

As far as I remember, from the WinMo days, it was the same old BS, just on a smaller scale, less devices, less forums, less posters, so it was all a more manageable talk for the mods/admind/etc to keep on top of.
I will be really sad if hyperdroid doesnt come back, I only really finished moving there from VR (Base got a bit old) and I dont want to have to find another rom, there all seem to be to themed rather than stable bases with the useful mods built in.

being a newbie is fine. We all start there.
bear in mind, n00b has a different meaning to what you are referring to here.
What differentiates newbies that are humble and n00bs are as below:
being a trolling n00b calling devs idiots, or demanding devs to give them exactly what they want, a n00b that can't read/search, a n00b that somehow thinks he knows best, a n00b that advices others to do weird/ridculous things to their phones, it can be pretty tiring.

veyka said:
As far as I remember, from the WinMo days, it was the same old BS, just on a smaller scale, less devices, less forums, less posters, so it was all a more manageable talk for the mods/admind/etc to keep on top of.
I will be really sad if hyperdroid doesnt come back, I only really finished moving there from VR (Base got a bit old) and I dont want to have to find another rom, there all seem to be to themed rather than stable bases with the useful mods built in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thing that happened with designgears what a quality dev. His cognition had it all! Fell in love with that rom lol. He left rom got old and now im on wanam, which is really good. With android exploding as someone said....the posts may only get worse .
looks like an iphone but powered by android baby!!!!

mbutandola said:
Sorry but I'm starting to get mixed feelings here. I've always been on their side and understand that they can get fed up. But it's as if being a noob is not permitted in their thread. No disrespect but they are coming across as elitist.
As for the devs that use their work without all due credit they are destroying xda spirit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is also my impression. i liked hyperdroid since HD2. excellent work. top job.
hyperdroid was the main reason to buy an SGS2.
But in a thread beginning with:
"Goals of the ROM: Fast. Functional. Solid.
We want the ROM to be fully customizable by the most important person--- YOU, the user. We believe its your choice how you theme the device and that a ROM shouldn't just be themed creations based off another ROM."
Again: The most important person--- YOU, the user.
I think this should be a thread also for users. not only for devs. Did I get this wrong? ok, there where posts with awful context. but lump all users together?
one example of what i really don't understand: they say, the do their job primary for themselves. ok. but do the dev's need a OTA-Tool for themselves?
Users are the most important persons - and then they kick them out. This is a contradiction in my opinion.
i am very sad about this...
This was pongster's thread, his decision. I wish the guys the best for the future! So bye, bye hyperdroid ...

trahzebuck said:
Users are the most important persons - and then they kick them out. This is a contradiction in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what kind of users are you talking about here?
s2d4 said:
being a newbie is fine. We all start there.
bear in mind, n00b has a different meaning to what you are referring to here.
What differentiates newbies that are humble and n00bs are as below:
being a trolling n00b calling devs idiots, or demanding devs to give them exactly what they want, a n00b that can't read/search, a n00b that somehow thinks he knows best, a n00b that advices others to do weird/ridculous things to their phones, it can be pretty tiring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

s2d4 said:
being a newbie is fine. We all start there.
bear in mind, n00b has a different meaning to what you are referring to here.
What differentiates newbies that are humble and n00bs are as below:
being a trolling n00b calling devs idiots, or demanding devs to give them exactly what they want, a n00b that can't read/search, a n00b that somehow thinks he knows best, a n00b that advices others to do weird/ridculous things to their phones, it can be pretty tiring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. But just read Pongster last post. He's got reasons to be angry but sounds a bit smug to me.
I never demanded anything or complained and moved to hyperdroid because the sounded committed while knowing what they talk about. I mean real development. But reading between the lines if you don't know how to use adb then you don't have the requested level. And you shouldn't report bugs.
So basically because of that + some disrespectful comments + stolen work they might stop sharing all along.
Well, it's their work, they don't owe us anything and it's only fair enough.
Life goes on and I won't beg them. If they come back then fine and I'd be pleased. However, even if I end up using their rom again, I won't post anything or ask help from them at all.
Edit: one more thing. Posting on their thread doesn't necessarily mean that you are requesting help from them. You ask help from those who use the same rom and may have encountered the same issue. Most of the time users help each other and that's the best way of learning.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II using Tapatalk.