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You know I have always come to XDA with my windows mobile phones and now my g1. I never made an account because I've always done my research on how to do things on my phone. But just recently there are a lot of new users comming to xda to learn and ask questions and achieve the new things we have on our phones. Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum. like a lot of people say why not let the mods take care of it, why flame the user? what do you achieve? do you feel better about yourself? I have always loved XDA and i may not have had that much to give to the community. I also want to say thank you to all the developers putting forth all the work.
XDA is like having a girlfriend. It's fun at times but mostly it's hell. But you stick around so you can pound that pearl! hahaha jk
ernvillanueva90 said:
You know I have always come to XDA with my windows mobile phones and now my g1. I never made an account because I've always done my research on how to do things on my phone. But just recently there are a lot of new users coming to xda to learn and ask questions and achieve the new things we have on our phones. Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum. like a lot of people say why not let the mods take care of it, why flame the user? what do you achieve? do you feel better about yourself? I have always loved XDA and i may not have had that much to give to the community. I also want to say thank you to all the developers putting forth all the work.
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I think its good to do some Trial & Error before asking some questions.Don't ask a question that was answered above your post. I don't like when people start spamming or trolling and they say the rom is slow just cause they don't know what they're doing. Now the search here isn't perfect and finding some things can be difficult but if you do xda+(rom name,etc) you should find the thread with google.Instead of making a new thread like how to root dream/G1m do root G1 on google and you will find something.
Ace42 said:
I think its good to do some Trial & Error before asking some questions.Don't ask a question that was answered above your post. I don't like when people start spamming or trolling and they say the rom is slow just cause they don't know what they're doing. Now the search here isn't perfect and finding some things can be difficult but if you do xda+(rom name,etc) you should find the thread with google.Instead of making a new thread like how to root dream/G1m do root G1 on google and you will find something.
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I most agree with you but why flame the user is what im getting at. just the rudeness and the snide remarks. what benifit does the community get from this? if anything they are driving away people that you never know may become very good developers. just let the mod deal with it and redirect them and they will eventually learn. i myself dont like to ask for help. i rely on google and on the search. im just doing this for all the new members that may join xda. i mean these people that are quick to flam someone on how they broke a rule bc they posted in the wrong section arent they breaking a rule as well by flaming the other user? or insulting them? i never see anything being said about that... just my thoughts. from this point foward mod go ahead and delete this or do what you please with this. i just thought id speak my mind for once rather than just sit by and watch people get flammed or instulted and from this be discouraged and driven away from this forum.
ernvillanueva90 said:
I most agree with you but why flame the user is what im getting at. just the rudeness and the snide remarks. what benifit does the community get from this? if anything they are driving away people that you never know may become very good developers. just let the mod deal with it and redirect them and they will eventually learn. i myself dont like to ask for help. i rely on google and on the search. im just doing this for all the new members that may join xda. i mean these people that are quick to flam someone on how they broke a rule bc they posted in the wrong section arent they breaking a rule as well by flaming the other user? or insulting them? i never see anything being said about that... just my thoughts. from this point foward mod go ahead and delete this or do what you please with this. i just thought id speak my mind for once rather than just sit by and watch people get flammed or instulted and from this be discouraged and driven away from this forum.
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I didn't mean its right to do that,cause the rules say to respect other members so they are going against that. I think if they have nothing nice to say then keep your trap shut real tight.
It's just how this forum seems to operate. It's massive, with a very lenient policy on trolling and off-topic harassment. Combine that with a userbase that seems to trend on the younger side, you get a lot of kids who think they're anonymous and because of that, think they should just flame the hell out of anyone who asks a question.
I only respect people that try. If it's available already on xda search and google search. I wasn't spoon fed and I will not help themselves. If we say there is already a guide that show you how to install adb, root, unroot, wipe, flash etc. we mean that someone took the time to create the guide for that and one can easily find it by searching.
But there are some user level things that xda needs to address, such as stickied updated user guides a better more forum level faq. I think something like that needs to be created which may cut down on common repeat questions, but why do that when it says to search first on the first sticky but they still don't anyway. It's a loosing battle any way you cut it.
Better rom layout in the dream section anyway would be a huge plus. Even as simple as have a [main dev - 1.5/hero -- 1.6 -- 2.x -- 2.x sense] would be big for the android section.
I think what makes XDA different from a lot of other internet forums is the subject matter being discussed...it is very technical in nature. Rooting, flashing of ROMs, recovery images, themes, and SPLs is pretty heavy stuff.
Lots of non-technical people own these phones, yet it takes a technical person to mod them, so naturally a lot of basic questions will be asked and naturally those already in the know will grow tired of being asked.
It was just a few weeks ago that I didn't have a clue about modding Android, but after reading a lot and asking a little, I was able to catch up pretty quickly, and I have XDA to thank for that. My only advice to my fellow forum members is because of the highly technical nature of this forum, a little extra patience is required compared to other internet forums. Yet at the same time adequate policing of mis-posting and unnecessary posting is required. Just gotta find the happy medium!
i think my autoresponse to people emailing me at [email protected] really says it all (as well as my signature - the patience bit)
the number of emails asking "how do i root" "what is root" "what is a custom rom" and even the classic "wat duz dis shizzle do yo?"
This is an automated response
Your email has been received.
This email address is exclusively for help and support with the
CM-Updater and CM ROMs.
Emails asking "how do I root?" "how do I get CM" and "what is this app
for" WILL BE IGNORED.
Emails using poor language and/or grammar such as "wat duz dis do?"
WILL BE IGNORED.
Emails using bad language and/or are rude WILL BE IGNORED.
CyanogenMOD is for the Dream/G1 and Magic/MT3G only.
If you are inquiring as to whether or not it will run on the droid,
hero or any other phone for that matter - YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE A
REPLY.
If you are looking for the IM app which was removed after 4.2.9.1
Look Here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5208623#post5208623
I am NOT cyanogen nor do I hold any great pull with him - we just
mutually benefit from each other.
I WILL NOT forward messages to him or request features on your behalf.
If you have not received a reply within 24 hours then the chances are
your original email did not fit this criteria.
My apologies for being so strict. 20-70 emails a month for this can
get annoying when it is often down to people not reading properly.
If you require more in depth help, please consider SEARCHING the XDA forums.
As a last resort, start a new thread (in the QnA section please, not
the development section).
I WILL NOT HOLD YOUR HAND AND GIVE YOU ALL THE ANSWERS
Thank you for using the CM-Updater
Kind regards
Garok89
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ernvillanueva90 said:
Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum.
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To be honest, if it drives away idiots who can't be arsed using the search button or even Google on their Google phones (god forbid!) then the forum will be a better place without them.
If someone posts "What's root? i can't find it on the market." they deserve to get flamed. (a surprisingly common question i get asked a lot, by the way.)
We were all beginners once, i appreciate that, but you won't get anywhere and you wont learn anything if you don't figure stuff out for yourself.
this site is so huge that sometimes a search wont find what you want, either that or it does and its lost amongst all the flames and other questions. sometimes it takes asking a question again to get what your looking for... i try to find what im doing and read up on it all before i do stuff new, like flashing the 10mb ram hack i did recently for instance. did a lot of reading and searches. and for a final to make sure asked some good people over at the irc channel...
i can see why some people get flamed, but sometimes its just an ego trip some geek thats made this stuff his life is on...
btw xda is the best site for this stuff, with all the flamers, theres still some good people that are glad to help
Meltus said:
To be honest, if it drives away idiots who can't be arsed using the search button or even Google on their Google phones (god forbid!) then the forum will be a better place without them.
If someone posts "What's root? i can't find it on the market." they deserve to get flamed. (a surprisingly common question i get asked a lot, by the way.)
We were all beginners once, i appreciate that, but you won't get anywhere and you wont learn anything if you don't figure stuff out for yourself.
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I can understand what you are saying, but people need to be more understanding as well.
I was once flamed for not using the search button when I asked about getting really short battery life with a specific ROM. Some asshat told me that I needed to use the search function because it had already been discussed. Well, type a common subject like battery life into the search function and you're going to get a gagillion responses (just got 20+ pages doing it). After saying that in the thread, I was then told by the same guy that I should go back and read the thread by this person. That's all fine and dandy, but when the thread is damn near 150 pages long, that's not really an option either. To me, it seems as though this forum often lacks basic common courtesy unless you're one of the frequent posters even with non-beginner questions.
Hi!
I was just wondering if anyone would like to point me and others in the direction of some other useful threads to check out that relate to our Hero. (Not Superman, he's still GSM only)
For example, I've wondered if any subforums other than Hero CDMA in the HTC Hero Forums here on XDA have any useful info or downloads that are relevant. Also, I've been wondering the same thing about the general Android forums here on XDA.
I keep a CDMA Hero bookmark button on top of Firefox, but does anyone have any good suggestions of other sites or subforums/threads that I can add along with it and check about as much as I check Facebook, Gmail and Plentyoffish? Hahaha
The thread list is up at the top.. Under search..
Have fun with it..
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
Haha, yeah, thanks. I was about to say thanks, ****, but I saw you're joking so it's cool.
Before anyone tries to use the old "google it" line on me, let me say, yeah - I've googled it before. I know several good sites to check out other than XDA, like android central and so on.
I'm just wondering what other people check religiously like I check this subforum.
I'm also mainly curious to know if there's even any point reading through stuff on in the GSM Hero subforums. It's so lame that we only get one lousy little subforum! There's bound to be a wealth of knowledge, downloads, etc. in the GSM subforums, but I just don't want to waste my time or learn harmful/useless things.
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
Of course it gets annoying to see people begging for help with common issues that have been addressed a hundred times. No one denies that, but it's just something that will always be there. Unless there is a quiz on the basics of flashing ROMs and using a device before one can make posts on here, it's always going to happen. Getting annoyed with this is understandable.
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
Anyway, sorry to rant on and on about it, but it would really be great to see the CDMA Hero community work together a little better and be a little less anal. This is probably the number one site that people with our phone check to learn more and update and generally get more out of the Hero experience. Instead of scaring people away from making new threads and posts to ask people what they like and why they like it, we should really try to encourage this. The more we all come together and explore things together (regardless of how repetitive and in some opinions possibly even trivial some of these things may be), the more we grow as a whole, and I am sure that this kind of atmosphere will encourage more people to make more and more interesting contributions.
The beauty of Android and of XDA Developers Forums is that they were both created with the goal of people coming together and developing, creating, tweaking, designing, and discussing. Before the Hero, I was permanently glued to a Dell Axim x51v, and between these forums and HTCGeeks, and a friendly and open community of users and developers, we've taken the device FAR beyond anything that anyone could have dreamed it could get to when it was made, what, 5 years ago?
thedudejdog said:
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
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Thanks a lot, I'm going to add these into a "Hero" bookmarks folder!
tejasrichard said:
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
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Thanks for the info!
GSM Hero Themes/Apps Thread
Curious - is this thread useful at all to us, or will any themes and apps be useless since we're CDMA?
I already know (I think) that GSM themes won't work because they're probably designed for GSM ROMs, so all kinds of things won't be compatible. (Like trying to use a 1.5 theme on a 2.1 ROM)
Are things like widgets and clocks ROM and/or device specific? I'm on a widget hunt.
I'm new to using Helix and I'd love to find some widgets that compare to the awesome Sense widgets, particularly Sense's beautiful Messaging, Mail, Music, and Friendstream widgets.
raynda said:
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
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It's not that we care that there is a hundred threads that say the same thing, its that if there are 100 threads of the same topic, it in effect, makes our forum usage a terror, because navigation is almost doomed from the beginning in that situation..
And it is not going to be something that is always there, because with mods actually modding these threads on other forums that I frequent daily, *they are virtually non-existant...
For the "noob" users, they cannot find these answers efficiently because the forum is blasted with the same thing over and over... With different answers in each thread..
The only way to make the "noob's" life easier, is to format the forum in a efficient and knowledge ready way...
Which by letting noob's overrun your forum, is not possible... We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
raynda said:
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
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Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
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Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
subliminalurge said:
Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
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That's exactly what I'm talking about. People will get to the point that they just won't post anything when they have an idea or a question because there's no happy medium. And the worse it gets, the less progress we make as a whole.
raynda said:
Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
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No not you specifically. Sorry that was an analogous "you".. And I totally agree.. But 95% of the ones get shot down immediately, deserve it, even though you might not think so, from the people with answers, you will know almost immediately if it merits further investigation. Wishful-thinking and impossible sometimes walk a very narrow line. Developers and end-users have entirely different mindsets.. That's never going to change.. But the end-users should have a more thorough understanding of what it is we do for you and *developers should be more compassionate "for the most part (there are alot of caring devs)..
Where this sub-forum was destroyed, was giving it sub-forum status and not its own separate forum, like every other HTC device.. Then, we would get a development sub-forum, themes forum, etc. The development is different than the GSM Hero, so why doesn't it deserve its own?
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
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I can definitely see your point.
But this is where the happy medium needs to be found. I know I'm the exception rather than the rule on this point, but by the time I post asking for help, it's safe to say I've spent at least one day each both trying to figure out an answer on my own (and I'm fairly capable), and searching this forum, other forums, and google to see if anyone else has had and solved the same problem.
That's effort that isn't seen, but it's extremely frustrating to feel obligated to explain it all in detail in exchange for the privilege of asking a question.
Now, don't take this post the wrong way. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expecting people to do a little digging on their own before they come crying for help.
I just think this forum (as a whole, not you specifically) has gone a bit over the top with how much "proof" of that digging is required before someone can feel comfortable asking their question.
(And I'm not really even complaining, just offering my observations on a topic that was already brought up for discussion....)
I get very sarcastic... But only because I think sarcasm is funny...
And you really don't have to explain it yourself *in every post.. Because most of us with a thorough background, can tell how much effort you put in, just by your question... (edit* Yourself is again analogous, not you)
For Example, the 2.1 thread this morning...
I opened it up, thinking to myself "Not again"...
But when I read and see that it was actually about A2DP, mindset about the thread changes, and I go into help mode... That invoked thought and development just from that post..
Now if I had opened it up, and it was a brand new "Can I change back to a rooted rom after the OTA update" question... I would have went into sarcasm mode... And I don't want to help that guy be lazy.. Why should we give him the benefit of spouting off verbatim what has been answered 1000 times before, just because he can't take the 20 mins to peruse over a couple threads??
I am all about the education of every single member of this forum, into all of the ways of Android... But its like what my papaw used to tell me, "You get what you put in."
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
OK, now to take the completely opposite side....
I was just reading another topic and in 5 minutes I saw 3 different questions posted that had been answered ON THAT SAME PAGE!!!
The proper profanity has not yet been invented to describe people like that.
See subliminal...
It's not that I don't wanna see those questions asked, I just want people to understand the nature of a forum, and alot* here do not...
If people read, before they start looking for answers, we would be alot better..
The issue is, that all of these people look to have a very limited understanding of Android, and just want a phone to use.. And this is not the forum for those.. Android-central, sprintusers.com, etc are more appropriate..
This forum is for development, not for chatting about the evo, or why your 1.5 is better than 2.1.. or how android is the iphone killer..
This forum is to bring ideas to our platform, and to build upon them... And to release mods and hacks..
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
Or to rant about how developers are stealing our donations....
It is to make our phone better, and with people feeding this nonsense, we are hindering the forum from where it should be...
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
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But what if Sprint sucks, the Nexus One is a POS...
AND....
Why can't I get a Nexus One on Sprint?
(I really do understand both sides of the issue. I just kinda agree that some on this forum are a bit quick on the draw with the "Use the search you ****in' noob!" gun....)
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
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Hey thanks, I'll check that out! By the way, after thinking about it today and catching up on this thread's replies, I think we're thinking on the same page.
It would be handy, I think, if we could get some extremely well written and dummy-proof How-To's stickied for the main page. I know there is already a sticky wicky for guides, but I remember still being a bit lost even having read them when I was new to the Hero. I wrote some extremely detailed step by step how-to's for the x51v over at htcgeeks, and though it might be my own vanity speaking, I think that it slowed down the constant repetitive questions. I'd volunteer to help out with this if we could get some Mod help to reorganize the stickies. I think we should have individual ones for...
- How To Setup an SD Card for A2SD
- How To Install Recovery and How To Use It (Nandroids, what they are, wipes, which ones to use for what, Fix UID's explanation, etc.)
- How To Flash a Custom ROM
- How To Flash a Custom Theme
- Troubleshooting PC Sync Issues
- How To Setup and Use ADB Shell with a list of ADB functions
I know we have this stuff now, but I remember it took a while to find all the info I needed to learn all these things when I was new to the Hero, and the current Guides sticky wasn't as helpful as it could have been. And I'm a pretty resourceful and intelligent guy who can search, read, and follow instructions! (Or at least I like to think so, lol)
Oh, and to make a preventative strike against hundreds of future bug reports on new ROMs, giant bold text on every page of every thread that says "WIPE DATA, DALVIK CACHE, AND SD EXT BEFORE FLASHING A DIFFERENT ROM!!!
Honestly I am starting to get sick at the attitude of some of the members of this forum. It takes more time to ***** than to just simply skip the post and go to the next one.
As the forum gets bigger (XDA today is huge!) you will have simply no way of avoiding these kinds of posts. Telling them to go search or being rude to anyone is NOT going to help.
This used to be strictly a developer forum but with all the press it's getting, the site has been growing a lot over the past few years, and by being an ass you're insulting the very people that are helping this site grow, and even those saying HUGE THANKS by donating money to you for your hard work. How rude is that?
C'mon, let's be more upbeat, forgiving and helpful towards our fellow members and let the actual moderators do their jobs.
/rant
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
Kshawn said:
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
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I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
EtherealRemnant said:
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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^^^^^
This.
We are a development forum, this isn't the place to get hand held and walked through the same idiots guide 30 times with pictures and line by line instructions. I have no problems helping people that want to help themselves. Seeing, "Why can't i flash this" when they aren't even rooted, have nand locked and never bothered to even check the stickies angers me to no end.
We were all noobs once and we learned really quickly to search, read and then read some more. When you think you know what you have to do then you should read some more. Then try.
Many here flash development kernels and then we end up with 15 pages of 55 fps OMG. Camera is broke! Can we fix it? OMG I have an epson with screen tearing I'm going to return this pos! Nova panel no fix? Dude I'm returning it for an epson!
Don't even get me started on the cross device posts and people threatening to return their device. Return the damn thing. I don't need you to justify my decisions. I also don't equate my penis size with my phone so; grats the Iphone records 720p awesome if that is what you need then by all means help yourself. No need to post. No need to post "I love my EVO" Threads in some lame attempt to counter act the negativity of another device doing something better than yours. Take that stuff to one of the other laid back forums where people aren't actively trying to fix problems.
Grims said:
I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
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Why should I waste my time digging the link up for them? Then they are just going to expect it EVERY time and we will keep getting the same posts from the same people who are too lazy to take the time and search and read.
Tough call, I am relatively new here but I help a lot at other forums and this stuff happens everywhere. Some days I bite my lip and some days I am a smart ass.
I definately agree that if you decide to reply you should say something useful so to not populate everyone elses search results with useless info. Of course the bad part about ignoring a noob's post is that they will then keep bumping it themselves until someone tells them to go search....so you can't win!
The other day when I posted at another forum that progress was being made on nova panels and the 30fps cap I flat out told them I wasn't going to post the link because the developers needed the thread to work. I of course credited xda just didn't give them the thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
EtherealRemnant said:
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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Actually, by telling them to just search and not answer their question, we will ultimately HURT those who are actually UTFSE....Google. By responding to them you are BUMPING the thread. Either let it die, let a moderator take care of it or simply tell them to search, but point them to right direction kindly and with respect.
It's pretty apparent that UTFSE is a common issue and maybe you can modify behavior through the forum itself? I don't see why the forum can't search out the keywords being used, sentences and such and force the user to "review" previous postings prior to making a new one? It could even go as far as to have them review and check off certain starred postings "before" making a new one. I have been blasted on other forums for not searching and thus I learned my lesson very quickly. Since it is such a common issue on many different boards, I would think someone could come up with a solution.
My .02-
I don't know how much I agree with the OP. I have been using these forums for maybe a year or two at this point and for the most part the balance seems to be 80% helpful 20% trolls. I figure that everywhere, in any forum there are always going to be trolls but on the whole XDA has ALWAYS been helpful. Maybe I'm just lucky and havent had to deal with too many trolls but either way, while I agree with the OP, not sure how large scale of a problem this really is.
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
People tend to take the path of least resistance, so if they have two choices: search or ask, they'll take the option that requires the least effort--they'll ask. So even though they get *****ed at about searching, they'll still just ask because they're likely to get an answer in a few minutes without having to do any work.
I believe the answer, and what would help this community the most, is to consolidate the most requested information in a SINGLE SIMPLE place. I've checked out the wikis, but to be honest, things move so fast here, even the wikis get out of date quickly.
Consider some of the most asked newb questions:
"How do I flash this"
"I can't get adb to work"
"When will it be out"
"My battery sucks, what do I do"
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
For example, I've seen advice such as: "To save your battery, remove the people widget." I get four hours of battery @ 100% with the people widget, so am I lucky? Is that bad advice? At best, it appears anecdotal. What we owe the community, and the newb offenders that generated this topic is fact based, concise advise that is easy to read, easy to obtain, and easy to download.
I also think XDA should start adding moderators commensurate with its growth. Moderators should DELETE DELETE DELETE posts that burn time and energy when this information is readily available. XDA is nothing but a big ass database of information, and like any other database: Garbage in, Garbage out. We need to keep the forums clean with relevant information.
I agree with the OPs original aims: We should be gracious to newcomers and help people out. I'm sick and tired of reading snarky "go search you dumbass" posts, but I also agree, it does get REAL OLD seeing the same old "I flashed this and now I'm bootlooping, OMG, someone help me now"
One last point and I'll shut-up: The devs spend WAY TOO MUCH time doing bull**** troubleshooting. If we all stepped up and took care of the basic PD for their work, they'd be free to keep doing what we really want them doing and that's improving their ROMS, Apps, Themes etc. So while we work on figuring out how to manage information, you can best help out by answering every question you can so your friendly dev can keep coding.
Apologize for the rant...
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Gotta agree 100%.
Give a man a fish (or thread link) and you feed him for a day... Teach him to fish (or search) and you feed him for a lifetime.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Finally! I couldn't agree more.
I will have to say that I think XDA desperately needs a wiki-post forum feature like the ones on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.
Would save a ton of time on these massive threads with posts that might have outdated info.
jmxp69 said:
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
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I couldn't disagree with this more. XDA is not an end user support forum, it is a forum for exploring new development techniques and ways to hack devices. The main purpose of XDA, in my opinion, is NOT to provide sweet consice fully working solutions. The purpose is to share information that leads up to finding complete solutions.
If new users want to find easy answers then they should use another forum, such as AndroidForums, which do a pretty good job of only linking back to XDA if it is a complete solution. If users want to use XDA then they need to deal with SEARCHING through the developmental process.
While the constant occurrence of people refusing to search on their own is annoying, I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
06ms6 said:
I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
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Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
ramiss said:
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
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Comparing is good. Some people have used the same phone for a year or two and are just now experiencing a new handset or even a new operating system.
It is when the whole one-sided "fanboy" bickering happens...that the thread goes to sh-t
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
2. More Mods! I think just one or two more mods can help the forums a lot and clean things up.
3. Warnings for people who post questions that have already been answered on the front page of a thread or faq followed by a temp ban if they continue.
I'm really tired of the cycle of
- Dumb question posted
- Followed by "read the damn thread or use the damn search button"
- Followed by "Hey you were a noob once and theres no harm in answering the question you ass along with lengthy answer on the question that will inevitable be asked 10 more times in the near future"
- Continue flame war that now has nothing to do with the thread anymore
You enable people by holding their hands. Don't be an enabler. If you managed to find out how to do all this crap on your own, they can too. At most you should point them to the right thread and let them read up on it on their own so they can further their own education.
4. Don't PM the Devs for requests. They have enough work on their hands and don't need to be flooded. Remember the rule of think before you speak? Try thinking before you PM.
Anyhoo, there was a bunch more, but I'm sure you guys/gals have other ideas.
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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I don't understand why the "[How To] Return to Stock / Fix Bricked Epic" thread is not sticked.
If someone posts they bricked their phone and needs help you post the link to that thread and lock it.
I like the sentiment of this thread but fear it might be taken the wrong way. Whosdaman is really a wonderful guy and has been very helpful to me but it seems like he is very busy (and who can blame him for dealing with things outside of the interwebs?) so I support this I would also like to issue a blanket "Thank you for your hard work" to Whosdaman.
Seeing as this is a collection of developers I don't see why we don't customize the forum itself.
I don't see any reason we can't flag the development and Q/A threads for every phone. Then, if "is this a question" is set to yes, automatically put it in that phone's Q/A forum. On top of which we could add a "You are posting in the development forum, this is reserved for people developing for [insert phone]. Please check the box below to confirm that you are developing something you wish to share." anytime people posted in the development forum.
Obviously people can still screw it up, if nothing else on purpose, but we can expect people who have never been on the forums to know how the forums are laid out, usually by reading the rules, which never happens, to sort their own, or we can make it as self sorting as possible.
Sounds like whosedaman just needs some support. Perhaps another mod added to help out. We all have to keep in mind that these guys don't get paid for this and real life always trumps forums life. Just my thought on this.
Sent from my Epic while i should be working
I was wondering why there was so much confusion in this forum, as I really liked the forums I used for the month I had a Moment before the Epic dropped. Was there ever a forum on here for the moment??? I couldnt find one, so I checked sdx, which I remember lurking back then and found my answer. Why can't Xda have 'child forums', with descriptions of where and why to post things?? They have a 'market' forum section for ROMs, etc, which we here are using development exclusively. I understand why, but it seems its this way here because of limited tools for organizing, can this sites software not do that? It is completely logical and intuitive to post questions directly regarding development or roms in the development section if you are new... I would have expected a sub-forum for roms only, or at least some direction other than after the fact... usually unless its horribly out of order, whosdaman is pretty polite about it, and given the feelings regarding this device, things get silly in here. Anyways, yes, at least sticky all roms and things 'coolguy' or whatever dont warrant flaming, and then politely notify the new people that questions regarding development actually get booted over to general, where intuitively people would assume GENERAL questions like 'do you like gmail or the stock app better?'.
More mods? Better structure? Who has control over this? Are there any experienced volunteers that can help whosdaman out with his daunting task?
We need to expect more 'joined in Dec 2010' and later members as every idiot with a blog and engadget included seem to think this site and forum are the authority, even over Sprint and Samsung (if XDA says 2.2 is dropping, it must be true, head over there and complain about it). NOTHING against new members, just that there is little direction other than the 'rules' that most people think are just 'dont flame, no kiddie porn... etc...' Dont get all elitist because people couldnt figure out your simple, non-intuitive structure because its their first 5 mins here.
Love this forum, but its like people are baited into getting flamed by assuming this forum runs like most any other... I thought I saw the end of this when I refused to go to another BBC chat... guess not.
If you feel that you must deputize yourself, please, copy the link to the wiki, rules, etc and paste them in misplaced, repeat threads and leave it at that.
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
I'm willing to be a mod here I have experience and would know and how to handle things here...
Admins or mods pm me
sent from my Epic 4G
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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Did you do a search before posting this? There's already a thread on it, learn how to use the search.
Ok, that was my attempt at humor
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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I don't think this is fluff at all and whosdaman does deserve to be thanked for his, well, thankless work.
1488 is a race thing. They usually won't tell you what the ideology of it is in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Although I don't agree with the sentiment of the belief structure, I support their right to peacefully observe their beliefs.
Yeah I know that meaning its generally a tattooed target, was just hoping it was just some retarded interweb speak. Sorry to hear. Almost forgot what it was though... not many Boneheads around here, not anymore.
BTW, I respect Lady Gaga's work, although I dont like it, therefore I see no reason to put it in my username.... its ok, you have a right to be a Nazi in this country...
Regrettably, I do read almost every thread in this forum, and forums I maintain...
<--------- Look here, I have 8 forums to maintain full time, but 6 are dead lol
Yeah I do have a life outside this for sure. Not only am I a senior in High School, I am on the Mock Trial team, the Robotics Team, a Sales Representative for Sprint, and a Writer for BriefMobile.com
So yeah I would say I'm busy, but I look over the entire forum as much as I can. Shep211 has been extremely busy in his personal life, that's why I started helping.
It is a thankless job, it's a volunteer job. All free, I don't get paid. The only thanks comes from the owner of the site when I say "if you fix this the site will be better."
Besides all that I can single handedly control this entire forum. I know it sometimes looks cluttered and in a mess, but then again...the Development section is spotless, which is truely the only thing that matters. The General section is meant to be a mess because it's where everyone posts their questions and complaints.
There are applications to become a moderator here on XDA, you have to meet certain requirements to be considered and then be approved. No one of this forum knows my experience as a moderator unless you used GameBattles.com for PS3.
If you want to help me out the most, please please please, use the "Report Post" feature. Every reported post goes straight to my inbox, and I see every single one. Normally RP's get extra attention as they obviously have bothered someone enough to have it reported. 90% of the RP's are either Ghost or Kenvan.
The search feature would do alot of people good, it's nice to tell people to do something, but Report the post/thread and I'll take care of it. You clutter up the forum and threads by posting in threads saying to post in General, just report it. That's all.
Sure, I wish everyone searched because there are at least 5 can't root threads. I would rather merge them all but it too much work to find them. Like I said, let the noobs make their mistake. The members report the post, don't tell them they were wrong. I'll move it, shoot them a PM, and then post in their thread telling them where they should have posted. Then hopefully they will learn.
Thanks again,
WDM
kenvan19 said:
Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
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Sorry, fluff may have been a wrong choice of words, I was implying that as this has been talked about before, and ignored by the powers that be, I saw it was going to end up an off topic post eventually, or at least until the elitist post Nazis (no offense bigjim) came in and said how we are cluttering their precious first page of posts, because as most have trouble with the AMAZING search function, a lot here have a lot of trouble with 'next page', you dont even have to pick which page, it takes you right to the next one!
Sorry, this is just getting really retarded around here, oh and BigJim,apologies, last comment on your beliefs, if off topic, but being an anarcho-punk, its hard not to at least ask if that is REALLY what you are talking about.
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
I certainly appreciate all the hard work Whosdaman has been doing with these forums, but unless he enjoys handling all this, wouldn't an extra mod or two be helpful?
My biggest thing is the FAQ post. Someone asks questions, you can point and say you should have read that first. Like I said before, the Wiki is great, but its a little cluttered and outdated as well as being hard to edit. Having one person willing to just moderate that one thread would be so helpful.
It bugs me when the whole community seems to be represented by the lazy people who just spam post. There are plenty of helpful, polite and very well informed that get lost among the clutter. In fact, they probably outnumber the newbies but don't feel the need to post nonsense. For every idiot that asks a dumb question, there are probably 10 that actually do research and figure it out for themselves.
kenvan19 said:
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
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Nope, I love you and ghost for reporting post. I always look forward to waking up and seeing 10 new PMs lol
ungovernable1977 said:
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
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I have no control over sub-forums. And right now it is only me working on the entire Epic forum. Like I said shep211 is gone atm.
svetius is in charge of the entire site, and I've talked to him about improvements that can be made. I wouldn't bother him too much or he'll just ignore ya. Most of the time the only things he is interested is fixing errors with the site itself. Right now I don't think we are in the area of reorganizing the entire site.
ok, so adding a subforum is not possible? Or is it a decision to make the structure uniform across the whole site? Just thinking, because this forum is like maximum security, different from the rest... or so it would seem...
I'm not so sure making more areas, and thus more chances to be wrong, is a good way to combat posting in the wrong area.
If you have a rom question, ask it in the rom thread. All that would happen if there were subforums for things in development, and discussion of things in development is we'd have 37 threads about how "I just discovered ___ doesn't work in [rom]" instead of 50 posts about it in the rom thread.
(Not to mention you'd then be blurring the line of when it is or isn't ok to post in the DEV forum, where as now, if the person bothers to read, there's a pretty clear cut "If you aren't about to post about the thing you just developed, GTFO" rule.)
Originally Posted by dude64
I love xda as it is such a great resource and adds and improves upon the functionality the devices for so many users. Thanks to all the people who put in hard work. But, I hate the attitude of the senior members and the more seasoned users towards those of us who are relatively inexperienced. I requested to point me to the relative thread/forum. What do you mean by topic list? Under general or development or this thread itself? Thanks.
I have been on this forum for quit a while and as a SENIOR I also do not like the attitude of some of the people. Not all of us give noobs a hard time. I do think pointing a person in the right direction is OK and also letting them know that reading is fundimental is OK, but I see some members going around and doing nothing but telling people how many times this has already been answered and if they would only take 5 seconds to read. You are correct, some people do need to read some before chiming in, but there is no reason to be an ASS. This is a great resource, but people will shy away if members continue to act this way. This forum was created to help out the users of new devices and a place to develop the hardware and make it better for all, so lets get back to that!
XDA also has rules, here's the very first one.
Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
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FloatingFatMan said:
XDA also has rules, here's the very first one.
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I know the rules. I see no problem with you pointing out the rules, but to go trolling the threads and just telling the new guys that this has been already answered does no one any good. You can use a little more tact and still be helpful. Isn't that the main reason for this forum?
dalepl said:
I know the rules. I see no problem with you pointing out the rules, but to go trolling the threads and just telling the new guys that this has been already answered does no one any good. You can use a little more tact and still be helpful. Isn't that the main reason for this forum?
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I do, but after a dozen repetitions of the same question, it DOES become time to tell people to search for themselves.
When I first came here, that's EXACTLY what I did. I took my time, I read the reads, I used search. I didn't ask a SINGLE question until I was sure the answer wasn't already there, and in doing so I learned.
Helping people is fine; changing their diapers for them, isn't.
FloatingFatMan said:
I do, but after a dozen repetitions of the same question, it DOES become time to tell people to search for themselves.
When I first came here, that's EXACTLY what I did. I took my time, I read the reads, I used search. I didn't ask a SINGLE question until I was sure the answer wasn't already there, and in doing so I learned.
Helping people is fine; changing their diapers for them, isn't.
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I do totally agree with you. I am just saying right now, you are coming accross as hostile. Try backing off. I see no problem with telling a noob to search and read first before asking a question, but I see no reason to tell them how dumb they are being on the first question. Now, if they continue, all bets are off. You can do as you want with them.
I really like this site and feel it is a great resource for people. Especially since you can not expect this from the companies, but I really do not want people to not ask a question in fear of getting beratted by someone because they did not read. Point out thier mistake and with any hope, they will comply.
As a fairly new member, but a fairly active one, I gotta say that sometimes the attitude on here reminds me of my local Staples...which is to say pretty ****ty. I know that its a pain to have to answer the same question over and over again, but you can't fault someone for not knowing. Realizing that sometimes you just want to grab someone and shake them, while screaming "just use the damn search feature!" but even so, a little more temperance and a little less condescension would be a good thing.
agree with op
I think thisnis exactly correct.I notice its not always the same person over and over asking things discusses or solved.I have also noticed that the majority of the repeated questions come from those who are not. Great with English.
The truth is its easier to yell and degrade someone then politely just ask them to search.I also believe the post telling someone they are a moron or other not so nice things are more against the rules here then the unnecessary post and adds to the drama.if you don't like it you dont have to answer.
It all comes down to respect everyone deserves it.even the lame people like myself as I have been called on here
I go back to my corner and shup as I should have not posted here to begin with
dalepl said:
.... but I really do not want people to not ask a question in fear of getting beratted by someone because they did not read.
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This is the internet. No matter how nasty you are or how nice you are, the same questions will be asked time and time again. There's nothing anyone can do about it.
It doesn't matter if someone reads the rules or not, it doesn't matter if someone searched or not - if they have a question they'll ask it - regardless.
You can have the answer in bright, bold, flashing letters on the main page and the question will still be asked. See it isn't about whether the answer is available or not, its that every person who asks does so with their own rationale and the belief that 'their question isn't exactly the same' and the answer they want isn't one they've found (even if its the impossible answer).
It's up to the individual whether they answer them, (positively or negatively isn't the point) or walk away.
So what, if some people choose to chew out other people. If that's how they want to interact with the community then so be it. The community will decide if that is acceptable or not and, in time, they'll either stop, or leave because they're frustrated with the none-Utopian forum they thought they could control.
dalepl said:
Originally Posted by dude64
I love xda as it is such a great resource and adds and improves upon the functionality the devices for so many users. Thanks to all the people who put in hard work. But, I hate the attitude of the senior members and the more seasoned users towards those of us who are relatively inexperienced. I requested to point me to the relative thread/forum. What do you mean by topic list? Under general or development or this thread itself? Thanks.
I have been on this forum for quit a while and as a SENIOR I also do not like the attitude of some of the people. Not all of us give noobs a hard time. I do think pointing a person in the right direction is OK and also letting them know that reading is fundimental is OK, but I see some members going around and doing nothing but telling people how many times this has already been answered and if they would only take 5 seconds to read. You are correct, some people do need to read some before chiming in, but there is no reason to be an ASS. This is a great resource, but people will shy away if members continue to act this way. This forum was created to help out the users of new devices and a place to develop the hardware and make it better for all, so lets get back to that!
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+1
Some people are irrationally and intentionally harsh and seem to exist solely to deride others consistently. I too think pointing people in the right direction is a good thing to do, but that's under the assumption that they genuinely didn't know to use the search. Some even mention using the search and still get less than stellar remarks as a response. It's of my opinion that if it's not constructive somehow, don't bother responding. Let someone with a bit more patience either answer or point them to the right place.
I agree with the OP as far as members of the forum go. The forum itself is actually very nice in that it will pop up a list of possible solutions based on your subject line. Whether or not new people or even older members use it is another matter.
it isn't something you can blame on XDA. i have been on the forums for years and while it does happen in every device subforum, The acer iconia section is just bad. I went from HTC tilt to touch HD to 2 X touch HD2 then an inspire and never saw the nastiness to the extent the acer forum has.
People just need to realize questions will always be asked even if the answer is in the post above the question. Instead of adding to the thread length with the go reads or quit being a noob or the has been answered x times, just don't reply to them unless you are willing to help. This way threads are shorter and if you do search you are more likely to find the answer then finding people *****ing about said question.
I think people just need to calm down and quit trying to be moderators, unless of course you are one. I help when i can and have been helped by many people on here. Without help these noobs will always be noobs. With some help they may become the next developer that the community pushes away with the over anxious "when's my next update coming"
I totally agree that people need to just calm down before responding. Answering the question, and TOTALLY reading the question, is far more helpful than responding to just do a search.
P.S. searching on here is VERY vague. The search at the top should default to the forum you are in, not the whole of XDA.
There's a lot of tears flowing here.
People will always be people...
agreed with the OP...
Im a long time member with very few posts, love the forums but prefer to stay away from the people.
wow
The internet tears are flowing...
Asked quite a few stupid questions when I was new, the responses from senior members taught me to solve my problems for myself and not create new threads when my issue had already been solved.
If you cannot handle a little bit of sarcasm when annoying thousands of members with questions that are already clearly answered, perhaps xda is not the place for you.
As for me, I am running CWM and the latest 3.1 thanks to the efforts of this community. I have learned more about Android and have refreshed some basic Linux knowledge, and have converted my cheapo Virgin Mobile Samsung Intercept into a reliable hotspot for my Acer a500.
Instead of getting upset and creating a new thread about how mean everyone is here; perhaps you should take a step back, emotionally distance yourself, learn how to use advanced search (pro tip: you *can* search just for threads about one device, learn to use advanced search) - and realize with the tools the community has provided for you here you are able to do pretty much anything you want with your Acer a500?
Or you can continue down the path of accusing everyone here of being rude. If you have any specific questions about the a500 - I am willing to help, as are many others.
Don't expect anyone to jump to the response if your question had already been answered, however. This community relies on your ability to learn how to use the search function.
I feel like sometimes the
"use search" is an answer to people who doesn't know as well...
A reply as
Use search , you will find : link to post related to
should be a better answer, at least if you waste your time to reply "use search" why not waste time in a complete reply...
It's true that is boring to see same topic, and have to give same reply (but in every weboard a MERGE function exist... moderator and administrator could if they got time of course, merge topics together... don't miss understand me, I do not say moderator and admin do not do good job)
Sometimes also a noob doesn't know how to search properly as well... IT'S A NOOB!
some are lazy, some are not.
I have been on this site for roughly 3 years and I do have to say there has been some increased crankiness. I also would say the amount of members and people with smart phones has increased substantially since then.
Would be cool if you could flag a duplicate topic for review by moderator so they can be easier to identify and merged appropriately
Well I have to say a little something on this.
I noticed the attitude on this forum and I tend to just read and learn.I type very little as I don't really want to draw attention to myself like now.
I am in the computer repair business and have seen this same attitude with customers from my peers.
And although I want to tell some people to leave me alone when they call I still keep civil with them. But I do appreciate all the learning I have gleaned on this forum.
Ya Cant Change Society
+1 to use the search.
However If I do reply to someone who is asking a question which has been answered time and time again.. I will post the search results that relate to the persons Question.
Not searching is probably my #1 Forum Pet peeve. People complain Ohh well there's like a 1000 Different posts on XYZ topic.. Well their wouldn't be if someone would of searched the first time rather than clogging the search pipes with another post of the same question that has been answered several times.
However Times are changing.. Generations are getting Lazier ... And still lots of people are unfamiliar with Forum etiquette.. Or are just wanting a instant answer now.. Not much any one person can do about any of that.
So if you feel sarcasm... Dont like how someone responds.. are not happy with the site / People .. I say to you... Move on... off to google.com with you to search out several other sites similar to this one to get your golden answer. Its the Internet you have the freedom to go elsewhere. but I'll tell you this your never gonna find a "tech" forum where the attitudes are much different.
Although I will admit there are issues here at XDA, they are working on them.. You cant change how people act around here.. Just as the new folks coming in will never use the search or read the rules.. BTW "technically" this entire thread is breaking the rules.. The thread is entirely in the wrong forum. And I hope the Moderator will see this and move it to its appropriate area.
just my 2 cents on it all.. its probably not even worth that.
"You Cant Change society as a whole, but Society can change an individual"
Ill say that one thing people need to take into account is that alot of members don't speak English as their first language. So they might not even know how to correctly search for an answer with the right words, per se.
The rules do say "use English", lol.
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