Database Users

Paid Apps the main problem with Android

I am not a developer, but I was reading up on experiences that developers have with the Android Market.
Then I also came across a website that showed some statistics about paid apps and they were shocking. I can't remember the source right now, but it said that the Apple AppStore is a $200 million business per month, where the Android Market is only $5 millions per month. This is very discouraging for developers who are in it for money (usually companies who have the resources to create Games and more Complex Apps and have the ability to Partner with Services).
One developers said that he only got 23 downloads, in the first month. He mentioned then that over half of them used the 24 hour refund (could that be that those were leachers who downloaded the app and threw it on a P2P channel?), eventually he ended up with 11 sales. One guy sent him an email and said that $4.99 is too much to ask for, which I think is not unreasonable considering that there are many apps in the Apple AppStore that cost much more than that. Whether or not his app is useful or not to most users is sadly unknown by me. But looking at his perspective I think I would start developing apps for the iOS, who wouldn't that wants to make money?
The problem with these figures is that developers will eventually stop developing paid apps and the quality of the Android Market (from now on referred to Market) apps vs Apple AppStore (from now on referred to AppStore) apps will extremely decline. And there will be either many low rating apps in the Market or there will be an increase in the amount of Apps submitted the the Market.
We all want good Apps, Apple found out Apps are the number 1 reason a Plattform has success. Android has Google behind it which makes up for a good amount of Great apps and there are very good developers here that are not in it for the money, but eventually it all comes down to making money when it comes to professional businesses offering a product. Look at the games that are offered on the iOS platform vs Android, you can't tell me that an iPhone 3G or a 2nd Gen iPod has better graphics performance than some of the higher-end Android devices.
Also, are there too many free alternatives in the Android Market that the AppStore doesn't have? There are also many free apps in the AppStore.
What can be done about this? - Please post your ideas, since I am not a developer I am not the pro here when it comes to this issue I am asking for your opinion.
However, I am a business student so I have some insights of how companies will react to this as mentioned above.
The few ideas I have would be:
1. Google could increase the quality of design of the API and give different APIs to paid vs free Apps.
2. Sadly I have to mention it because of all the Leachers and then P2P distributors, remove the 24 hour refund policy.
3. Google to hire more developers in house who are paid and create free apps that can compete with the AppStore (which would cost Google a fortune). Maybe then charge a small amount for Google Voice to do some financial damage report.
4. Change the Markets way how people pay for apps? I noticed that in the past on my iPhone the decision to actually PAY for an app was much easier and faster for me, I didn't even bother to look for a free alternative.
5. Try to Market Android more towards people who are less geeks (who know where and how to find a free solution to the app they need), as in change the look of Android and make it much more simple for the average Joe day to day user (which I would hate because that means remove or hide many of the great features that make Android what I like so much about it and go back to a more primitive system like the iOS4). And tell hardware manufacturers to create more shiny phones.
--> Since most people who don't know how to get free alternatives, or who don't know and don't have the time to learn how to find free alternatives are people that are buying a product for the lifestyle and to show off (iPhone).
What are YOUR ideas to fix this issue? - Thank you for everyone posting solutions.

I don't think this is something we should worry about.
First, Android is open-source and many enthusiasts give their applications free of charge, which is not the case with Apple's closed OS. That is why about 65% of all apps in Market are free, and only 35% paid. In Appstore, about 70% are paid, only 30% free. Statistics: http://androidheadlines.com/2010/09/app-store-vs-android-market-how-much-is-paid-for.html.
Secondly, you'll find that Market currently supports purchases in only 13 markets while the App Store does so in 90. These numbers will change as time passes by and more markets will be included, but I'm sure that Android will always be a platform with much more free apps than iOS, and that's the beauty of Android.

As far as I'm aware the developers have a say regarding that 24 hour refund policy. An application can be made to be non-refundable if they choose to.

In comparing developers for iOS and Android, you have to also look at who they are individually. Sure, there are many apps developed across the board for all mobile devices, but I think the core of the Android Market are individuals who develop apps just for the sake of developing apps. They enjoy what they do and they would do it regardless of profit.
Of course you have a few that try to make money, but I believe they are the exception rather than the rule.
I mean no offense when I say this, but I believe that the iPhone attracts a very different type of user than Android does. Most people I personally know that use the iPhone do so more out of status and pretentiousness than its own usefulness. Many do not even know the majority of things they could do with the iPhone. Those I know who use Android use it because they root it and do their own modifications, overclocking, etc.
With this in mind, I believe that Android apps are generally created by a different kind of developer for a different kind of user.

shinji257 said:
As far as I'm aware the developers have a say regarding that 24 hour refund policy. An application can be made to be non-refundable if they choose to.
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We have absolutely no say in whether or not out apps are refunded. If I showed you the numbers of instant refunds you'd puke. And the OP states $200 million to $5 million which is ridiculously off. I believe Google just reported that they passed $1 billion in sales (profit) from the Android Market. Either way, it's way more than $5 million a month.
All that said I personally am happy with what I have been able to do with the Market. I expected a little better on my most recent app but it takes time for people to get word of a new app. That's pretty much the problem I've found. It's hard to get noticed. But I still think it's pretty good. There is a lot I absolutely hate about the Market and a bunch of things I like about it. I'd still rather develop for Android and ironically, none of the apps I have created would even work on iPhone. Two are root apps and one requires a modification of the browser which is not allowed on iPhone (for no apparent good reason, I might add).

I am glad to hear that this isn't as big of an issue as I read online, it would be sad to see a great plattform to be hurten, as you can see with the WebOS.
As for not getting recognized, a few tips I have about that is not to rely too much on people finding your app in the market, but rather advertise it yourself, use your facebook and twitter and even this forum (if the forum policy allow that, I am not sure on that again since I am not a developer). I love the QR codes, I actually see many of them in bathroom stalls and other places, and I always check on them since it's in my curiosity to find out where they get me.

I'm making an extra living off paid apps on the Marketplace.
Oh, and an extra living off free apps with Admob.
So now I'm making 3 livings worth. It's wonderful. I have no complaints.
I mean no offense when I say this, but I believe that the iPhone attracts a very different type of user than Android does. Most people I personally know that use the iPhone do so more out of status and pretentiousness than its own usefulness. Many do not even know the majority of things they could do with the iPhone. Those I know who use Android use it because they root it and do their own modifications, overclocking, etc.
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You're forgetting about Droid users. You'd be surprised how many people own an Android just for status and pretentiousness. It goes both ways. I even know a few people with Androids that don't even know that they have an Android.

1. Google could increase the quality of design of the API and give different APIs to paid vs free Apps.
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Wouldn't that mean closing the source? Or you think people will use opensource platform that only runs free apps over opensource platform that runs both?
I don't think I want closed source OS on my phone, if I did I'd probably use iPhone.
2. Sadly I have to mention it because of all the Leachers and then P2P distributors, remove the 24 hour refund policy.
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Pirates do buy software sometimes, how do you think it gets to P2P networks in the first place? One of them buys it, his friend cracks it and everyone else gets it 4free.
So it wouldn't solve anything, removing the refund would only make legit customers angry if the app doesn't work.
3. Google to hire more developers in house who are paid and create free apps that can compete with the AppStore (which would cost Google a fortune). Maybe then charge a small amount for Google Voice to do some financial damage report.
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I thought google did hire developers and they do create free apps. I don't think competing with appstore is their ultimate goal though, since appstore and iphoneos are completely closed.
Charging for services is something I agree with completely.
They should indeed make certain (not all) services cost money. But they should also keep the software free and open to ensure the quality.
4. Change the Markets way how people pay for apps? I noticed that in the past on my iPhone the decision to actually PAY for an app was much easier and faster for me, I didn't even bother to look for a free alternative.
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It was much easier and faster because apple paid someone to make it easier and faster.
I'm not so sure google is willing to invest money into closed source software, especially when you consider these 3 facts.
1. Closed source software has a limited amount of developers who are working to make it better, faster and more efficient.
2. More developers on a single project means more features, more bugfixes and faster development.
3. Opensource software in general is more secure because everyone can see the source code.
5. Try to Market Android more towards people who are less geeks (who know where and how to find a free solution to the app they need), as in change the look of Android and make it much more simple for the average Joe day to day user (which I would hate because that means remove or hide many of the great features that make Android what I like so much about it and go back to a more primitive system like the iOS4). And tell hardware manufacturers to create more shiny phones.
--> Since most people who don't know how to get free alternatives, or who don't know and don't have the time to learn how to find free alternatives are people that are buying a product for the lifestyle and to show off (iPhone).
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As I don't like being labeled, I think marketing should be focused on pushing Android for everyone, not just specific groups of people.
User knows what works best for him so let him decide what to buy. Wide selection of devices that share the base operating system is great, but user should decide what type of software he wants to use, not google nor apple.
User should also decide what type of service he wants to use and whether that service is free or paid.
Changing the look of Android to make it more simple is something I'd personally hate, but we should always have options.
It would be great to flash an extremely simple android OS for my grandmother's phone for example, while keeping my VNC and SSH on my own device.
Also, don't think there's much difference between android users and iphone users, they're just people anyway. And there's an equal amount of pirated iphone apps and android apps.
Only real difference is about the OS, where one offers you a choice and another forces you to pay and develops restrictions instead of new features.
What are YOUR ideas to fix this issue? - Thank you for everyone posting solutions.
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I don't think there is an issue, devs get paid from pushing ads, users are happy with a wide selection of apps. Some services are free some services cost money. Just my 2c

How much does your android app make?

I have some ideas for a bunch of different apps but am trying to get a realistic feel for how much different kinds of apps make.
So please post:
Your App Name:
Short Description:
Monthy/Yearly/or Daily Revenue:
Is it Paid? FreeWithDonation? or FreeWithAdds?
Any other comments:

GingerEffect said:
I have some ideas for a bunch of different apps but am trying to get a realistic feel for how much different kinds of apps make.
So please post:
Your App Name:
Short Description:
Monthy/Yearly/or Daily Revenue:
Is it Paid? FreeWithDonation? or FreeWithAdds?
Any other comments:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We build apps for clients and this is what we normally tell the client: Unless your ideas are really really really good and you have a really really really good way to market it, most mobile applications will loose money (cost of each app is around 25-50k). They are there to expose your business normally. In terms of games, it's a whole different area. I heard that angry bird makes about a million dollars a month in ads alone.
If you are looking for paid app, no point releasing it for under $5.00 unless you are looking for donation amount. With the way android market is setup, out of 100 apps, only 50% will stick in terms of actual purchase. As for donation, don't even bother. Most people are users. They don't like to donate. Might as well make it as free with ads. (see above for potential revenue). But I can tell you up front that most ads driven apps do not come anywhere close.
I hope I am transparent enough for your question.

Since I am doing it in my spare time the cost of mobile app development will be time only. So just $20 a day would be amazing. I would likely make it free with adds.
I'd love to see how much your clients' apps make per month if you have that data.

Your App Name: Nudnik Calendar Notifications
Short Description: The very much needed repeating alarms (notifications) for stock calendar events.
Monthy/Yearly/or Daily Revenue: Monthly ~150 to 200 euros and growing...
Is it Paid? FreeWithDonation? or FreeWithAdds? PAID

Nice thread idea, I'm always interested to here development stories and info.

I'm just starting out and I'm deploying apps for the casual user....for now. It's a tough market, in my opinion, to write an app that the masses just can't live without and will pay $1.00 or $2.00 for and get you 10,000 downloads. Would be nice though
Now, what I want to target are companies, universities and business' that need a smartphone or iPad application. I think it's a young enough technology to get going.
For example: Auto Parts stores...app runs, put in car, year, make, model and you get back a list: "Electrical" "Brakes" "Engine", yada, yada. Much the way they look it up at the store. Find your part, pay for it and it's at the door when you walk in.
What you have to keep in mind is "why use the phone when I can use my computer or just call the business/store?" You have to take the particular business and app and target the mobile user. Still, a huge market exist out there (think GPS Campus Navigator for freshman college students ) Don't take it, I have it copyrighted LOL
Just like companies had to have a web site, I think most are going to want a mobile app. Or for the budding web designer, just a web site that's formatted for the smaller screens.

seraph1024 said:
We build apps for clients and this is what we normally tell the client: Unless your ideas are really really really good and you have a really really really good way to market it, most mobile applications will loose money (cost of each app is around 25-50k). They are there to expose your business normally. In terms of games, it's a whole different area. I heard that angry bird makes about a million dollars a month in ads alone.
If you are looking for paid app, no point releasing it for under $5.00 unless you are looking for donation amount. With the way android market is setup, out of 100 apps, only 50% will stick in terms of actual purchase. As for donation, don't even bother. Most people are users. They don't like to donate. Might as well make it as free with ads. (see above for potential revenue). But I can tell you up front that most ads driven apps do not come anywhere close.
I hope I am transparent enough for your question.
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Sorry, but that's rubbish.
I have 2 apps, one costing £2.00 (roughly $3.10) and the other costing £1.50 ($2.37) which make about £65 to £70 a week (that's about $102). That jumps to around £100-110 if i update them both.
If you have 3 or 4 good app ideas there no reason you couldn't live off the procedes.
Don't forget you could also offer 2 of the same app, one free with ads, the other paid with no ads to maximize your earnings.

Meltus said:
Sorry, but that's rubbish.
I have 2 apps, one costing £2.00 (roughly $3.10) and the other costing £1.50 ($2.37) which make about £65 to £70 a week (that's about $102). That jumps to around £100-110 if i update them both.
If you have 3 or 4 good app ideas there no reason you couldn't live off the procedes.
Don't forget you could also offer 2 of the same app, one free with ads, the other paid with no ads to maximize your earnings.
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Click to collapse
very nice but can you please answer the questions in the main subject

Meltus said:
Sorry, but that's rubbish.
I have 2 apps, one costing £2.00 (roughly $3.10) and the other costing £1.50 ($2.37) which make about £65 to £70 a week (that's about $102). That jumps to around £100-110 if i update them both.
If you have 3 or 4 good app ideas there no reason you couldn't live off the procedes.
Don't forget you could also offer 2 of the same app, one free with ads, the other paid with no ads to maximize your earnings.
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Click to collapse
he did say that if you have a great idea .. you'll do find.. but his post was mostly about the majority of the apps

some bump love

Bumpy lumpy
Sent from my Blade using Tapatalk

Meltus said:
Sorry, but that's rubbish.
I have 2 apps, one costing £2.00 (roughly $3.10) and the other costing £1.50 ($2.37) which make about £65 to £70 a week (that's about $102). That jumps to around £100-110 if i update them both.
If you have 3 or 4 good app ideas there no reason you couldn't live off the procedes.
Don't forget you could also offer 2 of the same app, one free with ads, the other paid with no ads to maximize your earnings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 4 apps and can hardly make $5 a month. Can you help me?

Mobile Ad Networks - good or bad?

Hi all,
I would like to seek your feedback on your experience with mobile ad networks. Should I be engaging the big players like AdMob or can I go to smaller ad networks? They all look the same to me, offering the same services.
Cheers!

chongnyen said:
Hi all,
I would like to seek your feedback on your experience with mobile ad networks. Should I be engaging the big players like AdMob or can I go to smaller ad networks? They all look the same to me, offering the same services.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my apps I usually combine several ad networks. Admob has a very small eCPM, so Im using iAd + Mobfox + Admob for iPhone and Mobfox + Admob for android.

It really depends on what your app is for, does, etc. For instance I develop live wallpapers. So I would need an ad company that would work with live wallpapers not necessarily a "regular app".
Personally I use leadbolt:
The only ad type from them I use is the notification ad. They offer different types this one works for me. Since my live wallpapers aren't traditional apps that users enter this works great since it will display a small ad in the notification bar that is easily "cleared" if the user chooses not to click it. They are not forced to click, etc. This means your users wont leave a lot of those spam 1 star ratings. Its also easy to implement with eclipse. You can also set how often the users see the ad (in days).
They have a good payout plan and i'm not greedy so the starting low earnings is ok because it grows with your user base. Permissions needed for this company is 5. Standard number for most apps.
The second company I just started using is StartApp.
They pay on an per install basis not by ads. So for each US install of your app you get $.055. So if you get 1000 US installs thats $55USD. They pay a lower amount for non us installs i believe its $.04 and $.01 for returning users meaning if a user has one of your apps installed and download another with start app in it you make $.01 not $.055.
This one is a little more tricky however because the user must accept the terms when they install your app for you to get credit. Once they do that they get a search icon, browser bookmark, and one other thing. All of which can be deleted right then after install without effecting your app or your pay. As long as they accept the terms you get paid.
Permissions needed for this company is 15 i believe. Which most are just to access the settings of the different third party launchers out there and not listed in the Google play store listing.
Startapp doesn't generate as many bad or negative reviews as others.
All in all im happy with both and haven't gotten any negative reviews since implementing either. However just started using Startapp 2 days ago so ill wait and see how that does.
You can use either of these along with other companies at the same time. I use leadbolt and startapp in some of my apps at the same time.

One thing you should also keep in mind is your users' privacy. Don't forget you bundle those ad modules with your own app -- so they also have access to everything your app has access to. And some networks make use of (or rather abuse) this. Also, it makes it harder to explain your app's permissions to the user -- not everybody is satisfied by "well, that's just for the ads".
Some useful readings on this include:
Android Adware abusing permissions, Collecting more than they need
How to Curb Aggressive Mobile Ad Networks
Android ad networks found accessing users’ private data
Android apps and advertising: A bit too cozy
Again: while some ad modules require too much permissions themselves (you can check that e.g. at Top Mobile Ad Networks), some additionally abuse the permissions your own app needs.

Ad networks = profit from free apps. Android users do not like paying for apps so thats the smartest way to be paid for the hard work while development process

Ad networks are a great way for you to make solid revenue on android

In my experience I would say:
Good for Admob
Less than sufficient for Startapp (dropped a lot after the Google's changes )

Hi,
Being an ad network, we understand such concerns. There are app developers who look for different way to monetize via (their) app. Ad networks help them to do it in easy way. Ad networks facilitate app developers with right solution.
For any app developer, there is nothing more gratifying than app monetization, and that's what Ad networks do. We help app developer to monetize well.

That's the problem really, comparing Leadbolt against Admob is not an apple vs apple comparison. One is a push network (plus in-app and icon and walls, etc.), another is in-app banners.
As a benchmark... In July last year I made over $300 from referral revenues, this month, it stands at $4 from over 200 referrals. These numbers do indeed speak for themselves.
As I always say, some ad networks work great for some people, maybe this works for you. Maybe Leadbolt works for many others too, and if it does, I'm happy for you.
It just doesn't work for me... too bad...

Thanks guys, this thread is what I'm looking for.

chongnyen said:
Hi all,
I would like to seek your feedback on your experience with mobile ad networks. Should I be engaging the big players like AdMob or can I go to smaller ad networks? They all look the same to me, offering the same services.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to use big player.. for big player usually give you a smaller ecpm, but there is scam potency for smaller ad network..
don't want to take risk for that..
as changing ad provider means we must update our apps in play store, if we just say that our update is only change the ad provider, our user won't be interested to update their apps.. we must make significant update in the codes to.. that means times too.. while we all know.. times is precious and expensive too

[Q] How would you spend $100 to increase the user base of a free mobile app?

Let's say if you a small budget, $100 to be exact to promote your new android game. How would you use the budget?

It really depends on the app you have, and what you want to achieve with this.
- you could directly contact people with Instagram or Facebook accounts or Youtube channels related to your niche and ask to write about your app to their audience
- If you want some initial push and user base you could try non-incentivised CPI campaign from AppBrain - you could probably get ~300 - 400 users from tier 1 and tier 2 countries
- you could check out fiverr gigs, but you might not get any downloads this way (or you can get a lot of them probably, if you find the right deal)
- you could contact app review sites and ask for reviews, as most of them will ask for money

Buy a media contact database for one month, and then pitch as many journalists as possible to cover your app.

That's really not too much to do any paid means. If you were to do paid methods, I would probably do a burst of incent, to climb the charts and hopefully get some additional organic installs. Otherwise, with a budget that low, I'd focus on PR, Bloggers, Social Fan Pages, ASO, Organic Sharing/Inviting, etc..

Ways to do PPC, for cheap: A Guide.

Hi guys,
I just wanted to share some tips in how to get into paid marketing with you guys. I know budgets are typically low, so that's why I'm going to focus on cheap ways to do things. I know it's unlikely that any of us here click on online Ads, but I've been doing PPC for different companies (tech and non-tech) for over three years; you'd be surprised at how many people do actually click on these ads.
The first, but most important thing, is that you are going to want to make sure that you are measuring how your campaigns are working with Google Analytics; PPC and Display Marketing doesn't work for every type of app.
I'm gonna do a very brief summary of Google AdWords, but there's a lot more information online that really, I'm just summarising and repeating. If you want more details on how the AdWords system works, I recommend just doing a couple of Google Searches. If you know how AdWords work, feel free to scroll down to the bolded "now".
Google AdWords is where advertisers pay for Ads to appear on keywords. Billing works on a per click basis. That is, you are only charged when someone clicks on your ad. You ad could be shown a thousand times, but as long as it doesn't have anyone clicking on it, you won't be charged.
There are at most, ten positions your ads can appear in on the Google Search pages. Ideally, you want to be in positions 1-3.
You can set a bid for every keyword you put in. The highest bid wins, with very one important exception. So, let's say that Acme is paying $2.50 for the keyword "App", Tyrell Corp $1.00 and IndieDevRUs $0.50. When we look at pure amount paid, Acme's ad would be pos 1, Tyrell pos 2 and IndieDevRUs pos 3.
BUT! There is something called quality score as well. Quality score is a measure of how good your landing page is, how much it is related to your KW, and how related your ads are to the keyword. Acme's Ad is actually linking to their home page, with no mention of their App anywhere. Tyrell Corp is a bit better, and have linked to their app landing page, but they don't actually mention the keyword 'app' in their AdText. IndieDevRUs, however, have an amazing landing page, and have ad text all about apps. What now happens is this: IndieDevsRUs is at position 1, Tyrell Corp is at Pos 2, and Acme is at pos 3. Even better; IndieDevRUs is still only paying $0.50 per click, whereas Acme, even though they are at position 3, are paying $2.50 for that position.
(Again, this was somewhat simplified, feel free to ask me questions or to look up more info online)
Now, how can app developers reduce their costs? Well, first, focus on making sure that your landing page and Ads are optimized for this quality score; include your keywords in both places (without being spammy! Think of it like SEO), test ads until you find wording with good click through rates, etc.
One trick to get cheaper Ads is to also look into location targeting. So, in AdWords, I can actually set down to an area code/postcode level my location. City, however, is normally fine. Even if you aren't an app that offer local features, by targeting cities, you can get cheaper costs per clicks.
Also, mobile targeting: It is possible to only target mobiles, thus avoiding clicks from people at computers all together. I've been shocked at how many companies wanting to just get mobile users haven't found this option (it's under campaign settings)
Another area to look at is time scheduling: You can tell your ads to only run between certain hours, or even certain days. I'd recommend running a campaign for at least a week, and then taking a look at the data. Find the hours that give you the best conversions, or cheapest costs per clicks, and set your account to only show Ads during that time.
Also, when you sign up on AdWords, take a look online for any cupons or vouchers; quite often, Google will offer to match a certain amount of your budget; e.g. pay $25, and actually have $50 budget. This is perfect for testing the waters (again, AdWords PPC doesn't work for all apps!)
You will also want to experiment with how to get the best out of the visitors who land on your page. I've seen that not every user will actually go to the play store on a browser to download an app, but will instead only do it on their phones. For one company, I discovered that if we had an email sign up on a landing page when someone is visiting on a desktop computer, we could get people to download and use the app through email marketing. BUT! This is something to test. Another company I tried the same strategy for, and not only did we get no email subs, but the conversion rates for downloading the apps went down.
And in fact, this is one of the biggest pieces of advise I can give for paid ads. Test. Test. Test. Everything you do. Test it.
Edit: Thought of a couple of additional things: Vouchers and Mobile Targeting