Database Users

[REF/SOLUTION] Samsung Custom Flash Counter (UPDATED)

*Disclaimer -- I just wanted to post this as an information source as people are just now starting to get their North American SGS III's and are eagerly awaiting ROOT and custom ROM access.
UPDATE as of 7/18/2012 -- Chainfire just posted a new version of Triangle Away that appears to work for the US/Canadian SGSIII variants.
Thanks to The Root for calling attention to it and directing folks to Chainfire's Twitter for quick testing (he's leaving for a month holiday) - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1781104
And pop over to Chainfire's thread to grab version 1.70 (or get the donation version on Play if you want to show him some love) - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1494114
With that said, if you are new to the latest line of Samsung Android devices, you should be aware that the latest devices have a Custom Binary Flash Counter built in.
What does that mean?
Well, for reasons still yet unknown, Samsung has built in code that will essentially track every time a user flashes certain unsigned pieces of code to their phone, including but not limited to recovery and kernels.
The general thinking is that Samsung and/or the carrier could take one look at this counter and refuse warranty service since modifying the phone is technically against the TOS. This is the risk.
Why is this important?
Many times the first (and most easily found) ROOT and CWM recovery solutions (if you don't know what CWM is, I highly suggest doing some reading up on this, as it's one of the basics of Sammy SGS ROM flashing) will trigger this counter. And once it's tripped -- it's not exactly easy on some devices to reset this counter.
How do I tell if the counter has been tripped?
It can manifest itself in many ways. For example on the SGS II, there would be a yellow caution sign with a triangle that would show up every time the phone would boot (hence the origin of the name Triangle Away which I mention below). On other devices, you see a counter when going into Download Mode. For example on the Galaxy Tab 2, in download mode there is a screen that mentions if a Custom Binary is loaded and a numbered counter of how many times a non-standard code has been flashed.
But what about Chainfire's Triangle Away and USB Jigs?
First, the USB Jig is an important tool to have since it allows folks to get into Download Mode without using a PC. Early on, users discovered on early versions of the SGS II, the USB Jig also reset the binary counter. However, in newer released bootloaders on the SGS II, as well as newer devices like the Galaxy Note, Tab 2, and SGS III -- Jigs don't reset the counter.
As for Triangle Away -- EDIT (7.18.2012) -- Version 1.70 is now compatible with the US & Canadian versions of the SGS III. Go show Chainfire (the dev) some love!
So what's the solution?
Now there are 2 choices (as of 7/18):
(A) EDIT -- thanks to MrRobinson there is now an way of rooting and adding CWM to the i747 w/o tripping the counter - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1739426
(if devs from the other carriers ask MrRobinson nicely, I'm sure he'd be happy to share what he did to get the root injected since it took a bit of tweaking. The CWM part should be universal);
(B) Or if you have already tripped the counter, as mentioned above, grab version 1.70 of Chainfire's Triangle Away - it now works on the US & Canadian versions.
EDIT: 6/22 - Changed the title to better reflect the post contents.
EDIT: 6/26 - Added appropriate [tag] due to forum combination.
EDIT: 6/28 - New Root w/o tripping counter for i747 linked
EDIT: 7/18 - Chainfire upped Triangle Away v1.70 that resets the counter.

OH NO!!!
Just kidding, most people on this forum really don't care, I'm sure it will be okay, the flash counter isn't the end of the world or even worthy of a long disclaimer from anyone but Samsung themselves.... What's a warranty, anyways? I have SquareTrade on all my previous devices and will try ZAGGshield on the SIII, they're both going to fix anything that happens to it if we're stupid enough not to follow directions by more than qualified devs!

KryptosXLayer2 said:
OH NO!!!
Just kidding, most people on this forum really don't care, I'm sure it will be okay, the flash counter isn't the end of the world or even worthy of a long disclaimer from anyone but Samsung themselves.... What's a warranty, anyways? I have SquareTrade on all my previous devices and will try ZAGGshield on the SIII, they're both going to fix anything that happens to it if we're stupid enough not to follow directions by more than qualified devs!
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Hahah, my last phone (SGS II) was the first phone that I haven't had to warranty through AT&T (switched out my Cappy 3x, WinMo phones before at least once or twice each) and I'm actually very careful with my phones.
Just like the options -- but you're right, a lot of people will just dive in and go crazy and say hell with it.

I'm on my 3rd Captivate as well, all covered under warranty. I'll be somewhat worried about keeping my SGS3 warranty-able when I get it here in a week or 2.
Definitely useful information, until the dev's get things sorted out and proper hacks in place.

pinoymutt said:
Hahah, my last phone (SGS II) was the first phone that I haven't had to warranty through AT&T (switched out my Cappy 3x, WinMo phones before at least once or twice each) and I'm actually very careful with my phones.
Just like the options -- but you're right, a lot of people will just dive in and go crazy and say hell with it.
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I added your warning to the first post of the odin thread in big red letters... hope that helps

Fallon said:
I'm on my 3rd Captivate as well, all covered under warranty. I'll be somewhat worried about keeping my SGS3 warranty-able when I get it here in a week or 2.
Definitely useful information, until the dev's get things sorted out and proper hacks in place.
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This is going to be a very popular device, so I'm sure it won't be long before we get some talented devs over and this whole issue will become obsolete. They'll figure it out, it'll just take a little time! :good:

Or if you need to replace for warranty, kill the phone completely... like lamp cord to USB port adapter.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA

junglizste said:
Or if you need to replace for warranty, kill the phone completely... like lamp cord to USB port adapter.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA
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That would be the 'shady way' to get around this problem as well, but was trying to stay away from that one in case someone electrocuted themselves!

pinoymutt said:
That would be the 'shady way' to get around this problem as well, but was trying to stay away from that one in case someone electrocuted themselves!
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Microwave for 5-10 seconds will also kill it, and prolly safer than the lamp cord method.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium

jimbridgman said:
Microwave for 5-10 seconds will also kill it, and prolly safer than the lamp cord method.
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
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Reminds me of the old "lighting storm" trick if you have ever put an old CD in a microwave!

I'm sure 1-2 seconds is more than enough. Most microwaves are 900 Watts + so don't need very much time.Also don't include the battery when you microwave it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Look man I know you are trying to warn people by posting this everywhere... But a couple of things...
1. This is not close to being development so wrong section
2. Posting once is enough no need to spoonfeed noobs and post it in every thread
3. If they are concerned with warranty they should not be on xda.
Please just calm your horse and post this once in the correct section... Because it seems like u just want people to praise u as a zomg u saved my warranty I love you... Or ur just fishing for thanks or both.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda premium

howtomen said:
Look man I know you are trying to warn people by posting this everywhere... But a couple of things...
1. This is not close to being development so wrong section
2. Posting once is enough no need to spoonfeed noobs and post it in every thread
3. If they are concerned with warranty they should not be on xda.
Please just calm your horse and post this once in the correct section... Because it seems like u just want people to praise u as a zomg u saved my warranty I love you... Or ur just fishing for thanks or both.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda premium
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Come'on man - I thought I've already settled this in the other thread. This is the last place I'm going to leave it - the thread is here as an FYI and I'm not going to mention it in other threads.
Please don't keep fueling the fire...

pinoymutt said:
Come'on man - I thought I've already settled this in the other thread. This is the last place I'm going to leave it - the thread is here as an FYI and I'm not going to mention it in other threads.
Please don't keep fueling the fire...
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ok thank you but my point was that this isnt a dev topic... not fueling any fire just saying so that in the future if you are going to put out something similar u post in the correct forum.... which is General.

pinoymutt said:
Come'on man - I thought I've already settled this in the other thread. This is the last place I'm going to leave it - the thread is here as an FYI and I'm not going to mention it in other threads.
Please don't keep fueling the fire...
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Wrong section or not, thank you for posting this. I am not an android noob but I am a Samsung noob.
Thanks have been given.
Sent from my Axiom MAXX!!

Thanks for the post! I don't know if this is the wrong section or not, but I do appreciate the brief explanation before deciding when to proceed with root. I am not new to Android, but this will be my first Samsung device. Rooting the HTC Desire and Incredible S didn't have considerations such as a flash counter to consider. Hopefully, I'll catch on to the lingo with Samsung rooting when the time comes to give it a try.

I think it fits just fine where it is as I don't usually go to the Q&A or General Discussions (thats what the search function is for). I am not noob to samsung, or galaxy, or android. The dev section is one of the first places I look when checking on any device new or old. I don't even have my phone yet, don't plan on rom'ing for a while but its good to know that a simple root may become an issue. I appreciate the time you took to get this info out there. That's just my ways though.

No worries guys. That was my original intention putting this thread in this particular area.
If one of the forum mods thinks it's better placed in another area they will let me know or move it accordingly. As long as it helps someone it's all good.
With root accomplished on the US variants things are going to get interesting but folks just gotta make sure they research before doing anything. There's already a kernel thread in the Sprint development side that was shut down because unfortunately the kernel hard bricked some phones (I think including the Op's) so one can't be too careful!
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks for the nice explanation, this is my first Samsung phone so I had no clue. Looks like I may hold off on rooting until a fix for this gets found, never know when you may need to make a warranty claim.

Well this has no links to a Rom, mod or kernel. Which means it's going to general.

Interesting Article I found

http://androidheadlines.com/2012/12...-the-samsung-galaxy-note-2-and-galaxy-s3.html
anyone aware

It would be nice if the devs can breed a new class of apps that give you root functions without the need of a root. Just install the apk and now you can add apps to the multi window list. Or just run apps that requires root, like GameCIH, SIXAXIS without a rooted device. Then the app would close the root via some similar method that Supercurio is working on (referencing your article.)
It would require you give the devs 100% trust into your devices. But, when is that not the case with these roms and mods? Too much negative press though. Maybe it will be closed very quickly.
Just want to state the irony of this situation also. New exploit is made public that can allow an apk to gain super user privileges so don't install any strange apk's. To fight this problem, install this apk off this hacker's website. He calls himself a hacker on his twitter. Supercurio seems like a well respected one of the good guys though. I used to use his OTA rootkeeper all the time. I'm looking into installing his fix right now, but now I've made myself paranoid.

http://www.sammobile.com/2012/12/16...und-on-exynos-4-devices/#.UM5Hgsbnln8.twitter
Check this out

Why is it that people are posting from other sites instead of reading from the original source that is xda
handwritten from my note 2 (N7100)

pakure said:
Why is it that people are posting from other sites instead of reading from the original source that is xda
handwritten from my note 2 (N7100)
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It does rather beggar belief that the OP didn't take the time out to read that the "source" of the story they linked to was XDA......
Regards,
Dave

Yeah the original thread of the exploit is posted just in another category of this phone's section lol.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2

That's why I posted my link although to Sammy it refers back to the correct place

its not like im gonna spend 5 hours looking for the exact thread/post that some person put a similar story.. i was at work and pasted it
"my bad" for sharing something.

LLanito said:
its not like im gonna spend 5 hours looking for the exact thread/post that some person put a similar story.. i was at work and pasted it
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You didn't need to spend any time at all looking for it, since it was clearly linked in the article you posted!
The signal to noise ratio of these forums gets lower by the day!

Let OUYA know we want custom ROMs supported

I'm keeping a track of how many requests we get relating custom firmware, and from what I'm seeing the user base is not as interested in custom firmware as you might think, which is echoed by this thread (we've shipped 60,000+ units, and less than 10 people have commented in the last month in this thread about getting access to recovery mode).
That doesn't mean that we're shooting the idea down, you need to keep in mind that in terms of priorities this is way down the list as you'd expect from any feature where it's being requested by less than one tenth of one percent of the user-base.
I'm sure @Wajeemba is familiar with CM requests that a very small minority of the user-base are very passionate about, so hopefully you can understand why we're not rushing to work on this.
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Go to this thread and let them know we want support:
http://forums.ouya.tv/discussion/1380/recovery-mode

Done! The mobile site won't connect to the create account page for me, so I logged in with Google. Didn't want to do that, but I wanted to be sure I made the request. I hope it's cool with you that I copied this post to another forum.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

TadeoNYC said:
Done! The mobile site won't connect to the create account page for me, so I logged in with Google. Didn't want to do that, but I wanted to be sure I made the request. I hope it's cool with you that I copied this post to another forum.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Thanks, the more the better!

I posted as well... I hope the admin/mod replies to my post though
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD

Vinny75 said:
Thanks, the more the better!
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I figured as much. Could this be moved to the general section? If there is a big groundswell of support it should make a better impact than posts trickling in over a few days.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Update: this what OUYA thinks of its customer's requests...
Posted by alsutton on http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?3193-Let-OUYA-know-we-NEED-to-be-able-to-boot-to-recovery
and a I monitor this forum as well, so thanks for the heads up you're trying to artificially raise the numbers beyond the level of people who'd normally ask for it.
My *personal* view (that's mine, not OUYAs) is that you don't NEED to be able to boot to recovery, you LIKE access to it. The system works fine without being able to boot to recovery, many people use it without even knowing what recovery is, so it's not needed to use your OUYA. A number of people have managed to make their device unbootable with just root access by experimenting with things like compiling new kernels, then expect OUYA to fix them. Personally I think this is a bit unreasonable (if you started changing parts of the engine in a car and it broke down would you go back to the dealership?), and I'm sure most of the user-base would like support focusing on things other than user created problems (yes, shipping, we know).
So just a "lets all post bomb -->this<-- thread" isn't going to get it raised up the priority list. All I have to do now is factor in the number of "me too posts" from people who may not actually know what they're asking for.
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This is ridiculous and insulting.

Copied from Ouya's Google+ page.......
OUYA
Shared publicly *-* Jul 23, 2012
*
Hey +OUYA* devs! Don't worry about rooting your device (or purchasing the pre-rooted device). We will provide builds and instructions that can be used to restore the device to 'unrooted' factory state!

Official response to my support ticket:
The OUYA is based on Android which makes it far more open than other consoles, and an OUYA gives your root access which gives you access to far more access than most Android devices. We currently do not provide instructions on how to access recovery mode, and I can not comment on whether or not that may change in the future.
OUYA
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Post-Bombing isn't helping anyone.
If someone's really interested in that matter, he'll find answers for his questions in this forum!

4rz0 said:
Post-Bombing isn't helping anyone.
If someone's really interested in that matter, he'll find answers for his questions in this forum!
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These posts are not located in this forum and are relevant to the topic. thanks, though.

Post bombing either forum isn't helpful...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium

Voice your opinions here. I think it more clearly explains the situation we are working with.
s/with/against
http://www.reddit.com/r/ouya/comments/1gk0km/ouya_advertised_as_a_hackers_welcome_device_quite/

I was all set to buy an Ouya, but after reading this forum I'm not so sure. Ouya doesn't sound like a company I want to support. What do you guys think about the Mad Catz console coming out. I want Ouya's hardware not their restrictions. It seems like it will be more open. And to the guys at Ouya, don't hinder the peeps at xda, they are the ones that are going to make you successful.

I posted, thank you for the link. Was wondering where I should voice my concerns.

I posted[/URL as well. I based it mainly as a fail safe for things just happen. The other comments, were more based on others assumptions.

http://www.madcatz.com/m-o-j-o-android-micro-console/
What do you guys think about this. It seems like more what I want. I think if Ouya is going to be restrictive, all dev support should go to a better company. Lets face it, people are looking at the Ouya for what it could be not what it is. It has the hardware to easily replace all the Google Tvs, Apple TVs and Rokus. I actually want it to dual boot into Google TV. Anyway, the Ouya will be releasing soon and there will be many tech articles about it. If we can go onto those articles and leave comment about how the Ouya isn't the good solution we can make a good company popular. I think most people buying the Ouya are just assuming that they will be able to hack it any way they want.

Confused
So do we or dont we have access to a custom recovery? Based on the dev forum I see we have a customer recovery available..what issues are there with it? Also i see WIP for multiple custom roms and even a kernel. I can't imagine one would waste time and making these if there is no viable way to flash them.....
Any information would be much appreciated.

The custom recovery works, many confirmed it on that thread including myself, as for the rest there stillb WIP's
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app

ej_424 said:
So do we or dont we have access to a custom recovery? Based on the dev forum I see we have a customer recovery available..what issues are there with it? Also i see WIP for multiple custom roms and even a kernel. I can't imagine one would waste time and making these if there is no viable way to flash them.....
Any information would be much appreciated.
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Ozz465 said:
The custom recovery works, many confirmed it on that thread including myself, as for the rest there stillb WIP's
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Yes, we can do those things - the heart of the issue is that if any of those things mess up you have the potential to brick your device with no way to recover short of sending it back to OUYA, Inc. Most android device provide a method to enable a usb recovery mode in the event of such a drastic failure, the OUYA console does not. How many people are willing to test/use software that could potentially brick their $100 device that they have been waiting months to get?

ej_424 said:
So do we or dont we have access to a custom recovery? Based on the dev forum I see we have a customer recovery available..what issues are there with it? Also i see WIP for multiple custom roms and even a kernel. I can't imagine one would waste time and making these if there is no viable way to flash them.....
Any information would be much appreciated.
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Click to collapse
The thread title is a bit misleading/confusing, recovery is accessible by rebooting to recovery. The problem is that you there is no way to boot to recovery via hardware except crashing the device during boot up using a keyboard.
They have gone about it all wrong, by allowing users the tools to brick OUYA but not the tools to fix it. Forgive me if I am wrong, but booting in to recovery does not allow us to do anything we can't already do by rebooting in to recovery. I have to wonder if behind closed doors they are moving towards removing root access.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Notice! You will brick this device...

I know everyone is eager to set up their KF HDX how they want it & many of you are new-ish to XDA, so you have been able to rely on tools to automate everything, making it easier to accomplish what you want, but not so great for learning the basics of Android & the core development & debugging tools that are used in the automated processes like the various toolkits you find throughout the forum threads.
At any rate, I am writing a warning about this device ONCE AGAIN. If you really have no idea what the sdk is or how it is used, the HDX is not something you want to start messing with. You know who you are. If you aren't running Linux, or at the very least a dual boot distro like Unbuntu via wubi & you have never installed or used the Android SDK, PLEASE think twice about whatever you are contemplating.
The Kindle Fire HDX is not like other device you have maybe played with, or owned. It is a low level development device that uses an oddball system for updating & while it is vulnerable to several exploits, the bootloader is 100% locked. Complicating this issue is the fact that the device does not have fastboot access & messing with certain system files or permissions CAN & WILL cause issues ranging from wifi & 4G connectivity to a full on hard brick. There are also checks in place that will prevent adb access if you remove or mess up certain binaries or drivers. Some of these things CAN & WILL lead to loss of ADB access. Without ADB access, anything you break CANNOT be fixed.
This is NOT the device to get your feet wet on when it comes to rooting or modding. In the last two days alone, I have had 8 requests from people with devices that are having issue because of something that was done inadvertently or because something was done in the wrong order. I am willing to help WHEN I CAN, but I am an engineer, not a developer, with a busy schedule & a family, so taking care of my responsibilities comes before anything XDA related, for myself, or anyone else.
If you decide to ignore all of the posts about people bricking their devices & you ignore this warning, the SECOND SUCH WARNING, well, fine. After all it's your device & you can do whatever you want to it. Just don't expect to find an easy fix or someone there 24/7 to hold your hand through the process of trying to recover it. After all, this is a development forum, where you are expected to have a certain degree of knowledge, or be in the process of gaining that knowledge & it's not something you are going to learn by osmosis or be able to cram into a panicked couple of hours because you messed up your device.
So, you have been warned. Again. Unless you want a $300 - $700 project you may never finish, read BEFORE you do. Learn about what you are trying to accomplish & just deal with the Amazon only device until you can understand at the very minimum how to use adb & know how to apply all of the various adb commands. The absolute worst time to try to learn anything is when you are panicked & grasping at straws.
Don't be this guy:

I think that http://towelroot.com/ is a good place to start as the apk can be side loaded and should provide root access. I still have root on my Kindle Fire HDX 7" so I dont have any need for this root method, but according to the CVE-2014-3153 most versions of android are affected including 4.2.2. I would say if your a noob and not comfortable with adb and command line then this is your best bet for gaining root. Once you do have root I would suggest installing a firewall app and block everything except the apps you want to have access to the internet this should stop any updates from hitting your device. Have Fun!!
CDub50

cdub50 said:
I think that http://towelroot.com/ is a good place to start as the apk can be side loaded and should provide root access. I still have root on my Kindle Fire HDX 7" so I dont have any need for this root method, but according to the CVE-2014-3153 most versions of android are affected including 4.2.2. I would say if your a noob and not comfortable with adb and command line then this is your best bet for gaining root. Once you do have root I would suggest installing a firewall app and block everything except the apps you want to have access to the internet this should stop any updates from hitting your device. Have Fun!!
CDub50
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Not helping. Yes, anyone can root there device by installing an apk & clicking a few buttons. The ISSUE is what they do AFTER they root, because now they have access to do things like overwrite graphical drivers with ones that are 4 years old, erase directories from the system partition or just completely WIPE the system partition. These are three examples of things that people have done in the last 24 hours with root. I'd go thru the other 5 from PM's but frankly I don't remember the exact issues, most were some form of the previously mentioned mistakes. But hey, since you are telling people that "aren't comfortable with adb..." they should root, I'll start a brick master thread for you to take care of. :good:

yeap
gsleon3 said:
not helping. Yes, anyone can root there device by installing an apk & clicking a few buttons. The issue is what they do after they root, because now they have access to do things like overwrite graphical drivers with ones that are 4 years old, erase directories from the system partition or just completely wipe the system partition. These are three examples of things that people have done in the last 24 hours with root. I'd go thru the other 5 from pm's but frankly i don't remember the exact issues, most were some form of the previously mentioned mistakes. But hey, since you are telling people that "aren't comfortable with adb..." they should root, i'll start a brick master thread for you to take care of. :good:
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well said and repeated!

GSLEON3 said:
Not helping. Yes, anyone can root there device by installing an apk & clicking a few buttons. The ISSUE is what they do AFTER they root, because now they have access to do things like overwrite graphical drivers with ones that are 4 years old, erase directories from the system partition or just completely WIPE the system partition. These are three examples of things that people have done in the last 24 hours with root. I'd go thru the other 5 from PM's but frankly I don't remember the exact issues, most were some form of the previously mentioned mistakes. But hey, since you are telling people that "aren't comfortable with adb..." they should root, I'll start a brick master thread for you to take care of. :good:
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Come on though, this XDA forums, isn't it? Anyone reading these threads should be well aware of the risks involved. With towelroot app rooting the device is simple, and not going to brick your tab. Being reckless and doing some of the other things you mention, well, sorry, but like Clint Eastwood says in Magnum Force, "A man's got to know his limitations".
sent from hdx+ with tapatalk

Lol. When the vroot method was posted a couple days ago the hdx forum was quite silent...
Then BOOM!
"OMG I BROKED MY TABLET! BRICKED HDX! *BLAH BLAH* BROKE MY TABLET! HELP!!!! HELP!!! BRICKED TAB! "
good warning for noobs.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

I used the towelroot, then used a ota update blocking script and kindlefree, that's it. I bet people are out there installing safestrap, Roms and whatnot.

GSLEON3 said:
Not helping. Yes, anyone can root there device by installing an apk & clicking a few buttons. The ISSUE is what they do AFTER they root, because now they have access to do things like overwrite graphical drivers with ones that are 4 years old, erase directories from the system partition or just completely WIPE the system partition. These are three examples of things that people have done in the last 24 hours with root. I'd go thru the other 5 from PM's but frankly I don't remember the exact issues, most were some form of the previously mentioned mistakes. But hey, since you are telling people that "aren't comfortable with adb..." they should root, I'll start a brick master thread for you to take care of. :good:
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To think that everyone who roots their Kindle is going Brick their device is laughable. Most people want to root to install google play store and stop future updates. There are always going to be people that are going to brick their device by pulling a bone head move. People know the risk, but if you can make rooting less risky by just installing an .apk sounds like a no brainer to me.
---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------
jimyv said:
well said and repeated!
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Please people root phones all of the time and I would say 99% of people dont run into any issues with having root.

sounds like
cdub50 said:
To think that everyone who roots their Kindle is going Brick their device is laughable. Most people want to root to install google play store and stop future updates. There are always going to be people that are going to brick their device by pulling a bone head move. People know the risk, but if you can make rooting less risky by just installing an .apk sounds like a no brainer to me.
---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------
Please people root phones all of the time and I would say 99% of people dont run into any issues with having root.
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You just sighned up for brick duty... Where was your energy and sarcasm Friday when Chinese root hit the forum? But yea thx and for chiming in though.

jimyv said:
You just sighned up for brick duty... Where was your energy and sarcasm Friday when Chinese root hit the forum? But yea thx and for chiming in though.
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Wow. Suggesting people use a simple apk to root their device earns you "brick duty"? And talk about sarcasm, your last sentence is a good example.
What's the point of XDA if we're afraid to do anything to our devices?
sent from an Elix-R nexus 5

afraid?
move_over said:
Wow. Suggesting people use a simple apk to root their device earns you "brick duty"? And talk about sarcasm, your last sentence is a good example.
What's the point of XDA if we're afraid to do anything to our devices?
sent from an Elix-R nexus 5
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I don't want anybody to be afraid but I expect them to do their own homework and when they cut their sh*t up not come on here acting like a rotten punk and not willing to do any work to help themselves out.... Which is exactly what a 1-Click Apk breeds.., It tells them yay they were good enough to root device.. And they just dive into making other modifications especially on a device that has no fastboot capabilities and a locked bootloader I just don't think they should make anything that easy for a unit that is this hard to recover.. Because obviously you're not going to be here to help the ones that were ignorant enough to get an application to root device but not educated enough to accomplish any other modifications without bricking their units and then come back here implying that it's anybody else's responsibility but their own.... I'm sorry but most the ones here Bricked right right now can't even run batch application without asking how to double-click thre times ... Much less run ADB commands so stick around and help please... if this device had fastboot or unlocked bootloader. I personally would not give a damn

Well, towelroot was made for a variety of devices and just happens to work with the hdx. So are we supposed to pretend it doesn't work just because some people are not able to know what they can and can't do?
Another movie quote :
Forrest Gump "Stupid is as stupid does".
Don't be stupid with your expensive tablet, if you are it's your own damn fault.
sent from an Elix-R nexus 5

tokenpoke said:
Lol. When the vroot method was posted a couple days ago the hdx forum was quite silent...
Then BOOM!
"OMG I BROKED MY TABLET! BRICKED HDX! *BLAH BLAH* BROKE MY TABLET! HELP!!!! HELP!!! BRICKED TAB! "
good warning for noobs.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk
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I made my toolkit to help people avoid bricking issues by waiting for proven methods that work and that I tested. I made it a menu and not a stooped down click and auto run installer. I wanted to give people the choice what they wanted to install, without risk bricking.
I guess people go outside the box for the "easy fix" to a complex problem. People and jobs are like that, doing some half assed thing to keep the wheels turning. I'm just blabbing now.
Be safe when messin' with the hdx. I play with stuff while on a rom slot to avoid a stock rom brick.

move_over said:
Come on though, this XDA forums, isn't it? Anyone reading these threads should be well aware of the risks involved. With towelroot app rooting the device is simple, and not going to brick your tab. Being reckless and doing some of the other things you mention, well, sorry, but like Clint Eastwood says in Magnum Force, "A man's got to know his limitations".
sent from hdx+ with tapatalk
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Obviously "anybody reading blah blah blah", isn't the case, as evident by the brick posts & my PM inbox. Sure, this is xda, but it's not the XDA it used to be. Part of that is because of the ease with which one can obtain root. You used to have to do everything manually, so you actually had to read, sometimes info for a completely different device, and then spend time figuring out how to apply it to your particular device. I am not saying nobody should root, frankly I do not care either way. What I am saying is that it is probably a bad idea for some people. Seriously, you think the guy that had no idea what Linux was, or the guy that thought you double click on the adb.exe to make it magically unbrick a device are good candidates for having unrestricted world writable access to a device? No. All you have to do is read some of the posts to know it isn't a good idea for some ill-prepared people & they obviously DIDN'T understand the consequences, otherwise they wouldn't have tried doing things that even the newest well informed member would ever try doing.
At any rate, this is what I think of now whenever I think of XDA, particularly the HDX forums lately. LMAO....

Say what?
Do any of you have anything useful to add besides your nanny pandering bull****? It's funny when you start digging for info on rooting a Kindle Fire HDX and this one of the first things you run across, a bunch of nannies moaning about it being too easy? Don't do it because you might break your toy because you are an idiot? Seriously? Is this a day care or am I missing something?

GSLEON3 said:
Obviously "anybody reading blah blah blah", isn't the case, as evident by the brick posts & my PM inbox. Sure, this is xda, but it's not the XDA it used to be. Part of that is because of the ease with which one can obtain root. You used to have to do everything manually, so you actually had to read, sometimes info for a completely different device, and then spend time figuring out how to apply it to your particular device. I am not saying nobody should root, frankly I do not care either way. What I am saying is that it is probably a bad idea for some people. Seriously, you think the guy that had no idea what Linux was, or the guy that thought you double click on the adb.exe to make it magically unbrick a device are good candidates for having unrestricted world writable access to a device? No. All you have to do is read some of the posts to know it isn't a good idea for some ill-prepared people & they obviously DIDN'T understand the consequences, otherwise they wouldn't have tried doing things that even the newest well informed member would ever try doing.
At any rate, this is what I think of now whenever I think of XDA, particularly the HDX forums lately. LMAO....
Having Root does not cause any issues. People create the issues, but who are you tell tell everyone not to root. Its their device if they want to root by all means root it. EVERY ROM and RECOVERY I have ever flashed or created states that in the terms of use that there is a potential they could brick their device. Who cares about your PM's. If you dont want to help them dont help, but dont create a thread just to complain about people bricking their device.
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Thanks....but....
I'm not a developer....nor a hacker....nor a ...whatever.....just someone who enjoys reading and learning all that I can about my phone and Kindle Fire HDX....have rooted a variety of phones and Kindles through the years - first "mod" was to be able to download music and my own ringtones to a first edition Razr back in the day. I know there are so many people smarter than me - in some areas...not all - and I gratefully use that info and knowledge I get AT MY OWN RISK....as most people do, I think....the XDA site has over 5 million members - will there be some idiots who don't read or throw common sense and caution to the wind and screw up their devices?...sure....shame on them.
But if others with that knowledge have an elitist attitude about the rest of us - well - shame on them too. If someone knows how to make it easy for someone to be able to get the most of their device - while knowing the risks - BUT WON'T SHARE because they feel we don't 'deserve" that info - please....don't post! Just keep it to yourself and enjoy the fruits of your own labors.
PS...think it's a bit of a coincidence that when the romaster root surfaced - from a Chinese developer - all he** broke loose....it seems others had the knowledge but didn't want to share....oh well.....and please...this is just my humble opinion.
I appreciate all the efforts of the developers and testers who make it easier for people like me to really get the most out of their devices - but I think there is a reason that most of the major companies lock down theirs....to stop the ones who will stupidly brick the device and blame the company....thanks for reading.

I have
revircs said:
I'm not a developer....nor a hacker....nor a ...whatever.....just someone who enjoys reading and learning all that I can about my phone and Kindle Fire HDX....have rooted a variety of phones and Kindles through the years - first "mod" was to be able to download music and my own ringtones to a first edition Razr back in the day. I know there are so many people smarter than me - in some areas...not all - and I gratefully use that info and knowledge I get AT MY OWN RISK....as most people do, I think....the XDA site has over 5 million members - will there be some idiots who don't read or throw common sense and caution to the wind and screw up their devices?...sure....shame on them.
But if others with that knowledge have an elitist attitude about the rest of us - well - shame on them too. If someone knows how to make it easy for someone to be able to get the most of their device - while knowing the risks - BUT WON'T SHARE because they feel we don't 'deserve" that info - please....don't post! Just keep it to yourself and enjoy the fruits of your own labors.
PS...think it's a bit of a coincidence that when the romaster root surfaced - from a Chinese developer - all he** broke loose....it seems others had the knowledge but didn't want to share....oh well.....and please...this is just my humble opinion.
I appreciate all the efforts of the developers and testers who make it easier for people like me to really get the most out of their devices - but I think there is a reason that most of the major companies lock down theirs....to stop the ones who will stupidly brick the device and blame the company....thanks for reading.
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LOL I have noticed everybody that has chimed in about any complaints going on here have not been here to help recover in any of these devices last few days .. Trying to help people that refuse to help themselves.... I mean really we can only feed them so much info and babysit so much and get told please help please hello please help me . And when you attempt too. they have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about or what you're trying to get them to do it just looks too complicated so they keep asking for help... Expecting somebody here to make an easy one click.. To salvage their mistakes and keep their mommy and daddy from finding out they bricked their tablets.....and btw if this device wasnt soo fn locked down.. We would not be having this discussion because recovery of a brick would be easy with fastboot capabilities and unlock bootloader click click done. So I call BS honestly over the last few years out of all these devices I've been here in xda tinkering with.. The only time see false warranty claims are always on devices that are locked up tight.

If they refuse to help themselves then don't help them. Claiming that something shouldn't be easy and the fear mongering and elitism aren't helping anyone. Instead of trying to be a nanny document the known problems and work arounds if there are any. If you don't want to do that then don't. Save the other BS for your significant other cause no one else worth concerning yourself with wants to hear it. This thread is pointless, people here want to root their devices for any number of reasons; they why's don't matter and if it goes south it's not your problem.

I
jptros said:
If they refuse to help themselves then don't help them. Claiming that something shouldn't be easy and the fear mongering and elitism aren't helping anyone. Instead of trying to be a nanny document the known problems and work arounds if there are any. If you don't want to do that then don't. Save the other BS for your significant other cause no one else worth concerning yourself with wants to hear it. This thread is pointless, people here want to root their devices for any number of reasons; they why's don't matter and if it goes south it's not your problem.
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I understand your point and this thread was not started as a wine fest it was supposed to be started for a fair warning I can't help it if he had a sarcastic tone to his voice from trying to help ignorant people all weekend and I think it's hilarious how people are chiming in complaining about our complaints but none of them have been here to help all the ignorant folk ... I'm just saying as one that has been here for the last five days repairing brick or trying to help that is ... Is a lot of and uneeded tension here I understand .. And it is turning" quite the Flamer thread ... So instead of chiming here to complain about our complaint and tell us to keep our complaints to ourselves as you are here complaining your self .. Please go to the general section or the troubleshooting section and start helping people... For example help him http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2783591

Internet banking on custom ROM

Is it safe to install an banking app like ING Internet banking on a custom ROM?

Oh my god. Just delete your post.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Free mobile app

troullis2004 said:
Oh my god. Just delete your post.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Free mobile app
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His question is less dumb then it looks. It's not that hard to build an keylogger or something into a custom rom. Most people here will install just about anything if it looks shiny.
Not to long ago we had a rooting method that was sending data to a server. People would still use it tough.
Always use your brain when you flash something.
In short: Yes it's safe to flash a custom rom.

Lennyz1988 said:
His question is less dumb then it looks. It's not that hard to build an keylogger or something into a custom rom. Most people here will install just about anything if it looks shiny.
Not to long ago we had a rooting method that was sending data to a server. People would still use it tough.
Always use your brain when you flash something.
In short: Yes it's safe to flash a custom rom.
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I agree. This isn't a dumb question at all.
And here at XDA we don't jump on new members who ask questions. It's rude and makes this site an unwelcoming place. That's not what XDA wants to portray to new members.
This is a sensible question from a user who is properly investigating his risk for identity theft. That's a good question, not a bad one.
As for the answer, well like anything it all depends.
99% of all developers are good people doing good honest work. (And its' probably even higher than that) But there's always that one jerk who tries to take advantage of good trusting people. So you do have to watch out for that.
The main ROMs that are popular and have a long history are completely safe. Cyanogen, Carbon, etc etc etc. These are developed by teams of people who work together and are screened by the ROM dev team before they are allowed to become official maintainers of a ROM. Those are all almost completely safe.
The only place I'd be concerned is when you have a one off developer building his own ROM from source who's working alone. That's where the risk is. And again, 99.99% of those developers are honest. The risk is very minimal. But it exists.
But bigger than that risk is your keyboard. Are you running a third party keyboard? Developed god knows where by god knows who? Just something you downloaded off Google Play? That's probably a bigger risk. I'd never use a 3rd party keyboard to enter banking information. It's WAY too easy to build a keylogging system into a keyboard. That's where the keyboard selector switch comes in handy. You can switch to a stock keyboard quickly to enter banking info then go back to the one you like.
Again, the risk of a Keyboard downloaded from Google Play being a keylogger is low. Very low. But it could happen. And even though it's a minimal risk, it's a risk you should be aware of.
The biggest risk to running a banking app on your phone is losing the phone itself. If you lose it and someone gets past your lock screen (not the most difficult thing in the world) they have access to your banking app. So NEVER save passwords on your banking app. Enter it each time.

troullis2004 said:
Oh my god. Just delete your post.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Free mobile app
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Oh my god, if youre a rich twat that doesnt mean people dont care about their hard earned money. Money is just not swag my friend.
His concern is genuine and please be nice to people out here. You dont own opinions and thoughts that people have. Everybody is as free here as you are. So kindly let people clear their doubts.
swa100 said:
Is it safe to install an banking app like ING Internet banking on a custom ROM?
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●Well devs are pretty nice here thus only download firmwares from their threads and no other site. The links mirrored by them or in their official threads are to be used and thus they also mention that do not create any other mirror link. Never doubt a developer here. People here are a family.
●Never root (as it was widely publicised here) via kingo and vroot or root genius, they take anonymous data and idk what all they do. They were banned by xda too. Vroot is still banned.
●Plus keyboards are only to be downloaded via playstore as google has a software called bouncer which regularly checks for malicious content and coding in apps. Though bouncer has been fooled, but google devs and execs are cool too
Plus a swiftkey team or the go team wont want a bad reputation. Because so many people trust them.
The only way to inject a keylogger in your phone is via other sources apps. Any app can have it. IMHO it is always better to pay for the apps than downloading the cracked versions from shady websites.
●Always have way of cleaning your phone online or oia sms or anything. Google administrator (app) provides such service and so does samsung.
Thus if it gets lost or something, you can always wipe it or lock it online or just by sending a sms.
The only way to keep you safe
Sent from my Ozcan GT-i9500 using XDA mobile app

Hey all, thanks for your reactions. I'm using the custom ROM from broodplank, a xda-recognized dev and I'm using SwiftKey.
I asked this question because I was indeed not sure if I should be afraid for keyloggers and stuff like that.
So, in conclusion, I should not be afraid and I could safely use Internet banking on this ROM, with this keyboard?

swa100 said:
Hey all, thanks for your reactions. I'm using the custom ROM from broodplank, a xda-recognized dev and I'm using SwiftKey.
I asked this question because I was indeed not sure if I should be afraid for keyloggers and stuff like that.
So, in conclusion, I should not be afraid and I could safely use Internet banking on this ROM, with this keyboard?
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Yes you can. Without a doubt.
But keyboard only from playstore. And rom only from XDA threads.
Sent from my Ozcan GT-i9500 using XDA mobile app

Thing is
Coming onto a developers forum and asking if we include keyloggers in our work is kind of offensive or if its safe to use our work with banking apps (which gives the impression he thinks people like myself are trying to steal his info)
The fact that a user thinks we would do that in an open source environment means the op has not bothered to educate themselves before doing anything

I don't think you should see it like that. By flashing custom ROMs I think I show my trust in devs. I just have no clue how vulnerable these ROMs actually are.
After all, it's the safety of all my money I'm talking about.

DSA said:
Thing is
Coming onto a developers forum and asking if we include keyloggers in our work is kind of offensive or if its safe to use our work with banking apps (which gives the impression he thinks people like myself are trying to steal his info)
The fact that a user thinks we would do that in an open source environment means the op has not bothered to educate themselves before doing anything
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He wasn't in a development thread. He properly posted in the correct general forum.
He didn't accuse anyone of anything, especially not you specifically.
He very well may not even know what a keylogger is and is just being reasonably precautionary to learn what the risks are before proceeding. And he may not believe that a rom developer would include malicious code but perhaps just wondered if a custom rooted rom was more vulnerable to attack by a third party after install than a stock closed source rom. (A legitimate concern because a rooted phone IS more vulnerable to attack if the user just grants superuser permissions to any and all apps that ask for it)
No specific accusations were made or devious behavior insinuated. So don't take his legitimate question so personally.
If it bothers you so much that anyone would worry about their bank account in a time when accounts get hacked regularly....try explaining why its not a major concern to install a custom rom.
Give a developer's viewpoint on what the risks could be and how you mitigate those risks by specifically not including malicious code. That would go along way to help nervous rookie modders feel comfortable about using work found on XDA. And it would go alot further than "my rom is safe because I said so".

Err..I never said anything about posting in a development thread...no idea where the first part of your post is in response to
I never stated he accused me of anything either
In your eagerness to correct me (and failing) you have gotten ahead of yourself
Its not down to me to give any viewpoints or any info about malicious code. This is a developers forum. Its down to the user to educate themselves
(A legitimate concern because a rooted phone IS more vulnerable to attack if the user just grants superuser permissions to any and all apps that ask for it)
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you dont see the problem with that sentence?

DSA said:
Thing is
Coming onto a developers forum and asking if we include keyloggers in our work is kind of offensive or if its safe to use our work with banking apps (which gives the impression he thinks people like myself are trying to steal his info)
The fact that a user thinks we would do that in an open source environment means the op has not bothered to educate themselves before doing anything
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Well there have been incidents when things like data leak have happened in XDA. Not because of you, the awesome developers, but because of the rooting methods and other methods and apps that were shared.
Keylogging is pretty easy, well atleast not that a task.
Thus talking about keylogging and other vilnerabilities is banned here too.
Plus when youre rooted, the vulnerability increases a bit.
That is why developers, mods and admins repeatedly explain and tell why warez and other sources apps should not be shared here. First, because you dont know what has been shared, with what coding and another point of condemning warez here is that you cannot just share someones hardwork for free here.
Example : KingoRoot, Vroot that were popular on XDA were banned by XDA Devs because of data leak that were reported and discovered by them. Mods and Admins are pretty cool you see.
If the OP wants to get educated and feel safe for a future relationship with XDA, I fail to understand why can't we just take this as a normal question and be done with clearing his doubts.
Everybody has doubts and they ought to be cleared.
Plus this is XDA, there are n number of sites replicating our devs work and you dont know what is coming for you next.
Thus, we were educating the OP how custom roms made uploaded on XDA are 100% safe and not how custom roms are safe. You as a developer are not being framed here.
Sent from my Ozcan GT-i9500 using XDA mobile app