Nexus 6 Camera Sucks - Nexus 6 General

Did Google paid off "professional" reviewers?
Using the N6 in just a few hours, one would easily come to the conclusion that its camera is "turds" as "heck"
MOD EDIT: Language
What a disappointing POS!

knite75 said:
Did Google paid off "professional" reviewers?
Using the N6 in just a few hours, one would easily come to the conclusion that its camera is sh*t as f*ck.
What a disappointing POS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you never get a nexus for the camera . what alternative everyone using

I have no idea what you mean. I think it is awesome!

knite75 said:
Did Google paid off "professional" reviewers?
Using the N6 in just a few hours, one would easily come to the conclusion that its camera is Mod edit
What a disappointing POS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole phone's Mod edit. Return it asap before you aren't able to. ?
N6

knite75 said:
Did Google paid off "professional" reviewers?
Using the N6 in just a few hours, one would easily come to the conclusion that its camera is sh*t as f*ck.
What a disappointing POS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe you just dont know how to actually use a camera besides for pointing and clicking? if you just point and click, itll just take an average focus photo, and its not that great. if you press on the point you want it focused on(point and click), itll come out much better, focus and lighting.

Come on guys/gals. Watch the language.

This is just your opinion. I've had much worse cameras on phones such as the moto x. Is it the best camera on a phone? No, but it clearly isn't the worst camera ever. This is what every reviewer said. I kinda doubt you even have a nexus 6 if you are saying it is that bad.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I like it. Is it perfect? No, but it's damn good and it'll probably only get better with updates.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

So...are you a Note 4 or iPhone 6 owner OP? They are the only ones that come in here and try to trash the N6 camera.
Your bridge is missing you my friend, please crawl back under it.

simms22 said:
maybe you just dont know how to actually use a camera besides for pointing and clicking? if you just point and click, itll just take an average focus photo, and its not that great. if you press on the point you want it focused on(point and click), itll come out much better, focus and lighting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No sense.
Sent from my Nexus 6

What is wrong with it? Examples?
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Is it better than the M8? That's all I care about.

v8dreaming said:
Is it better than the M8? That's all I care about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That it is by far. But most everything is.

knite75 said:
Did Google paid off "professional" reviewers?
Using the N6 in just a few hours, one would easily come to the conclusion that its camera is "turds" as "heck"
MOD EDIT: Language
What a disappointing POS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
?Only an idiot would come to that conclusion and express himself in such an idiotic way.

I took a couple nude photos of myself and they were so good my Dropbox instantly was hacked and they are all over the Internet. This camera is fine.

Love the N6 camera. Better than the GS4 which still to this day is a superb phone camera

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knite75 said:
Did Google paid off "professional" reviewers?
Using the N6 in just a few hours, one would easily come to the conclusion that its camera is "turds" as "heck"
MOD EDIT: Language
What a disappointing POS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like user error - there's nothing wrong with the camara...

This thread is useless. Not sure why the mods have let it exist as long as it has existed...

So we can discuss how the first post is wrong so as to not allow others the same lapse in judgment
You can criticize the camera if you'd like, there likely are other cameras that are better and/or worse either overall or in specific situations. The M8 tuning the camera to a lower resolution but better low light performance is an example. There are better cameras sure, but it does take some pretty good shots if low light shooting is your primary concern.
My point is, please debate the camera, debate breeds ideas and opinions which (hopefully) influence what manufacturers put in our devices. But try and be constructive, and where possible specific and/or somewhat scientific in your assessment. If you are, there's a chance we can all help each other find solutions or if need be, recommend a better phone based on your needs.
Now, who's going to hack 60 & 120fps video for us
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

Related

Possibly the Best Camera App for Android is now testing on Nexus 5

This has been released for all other nexus devices, as well as the other popular phones. It's in testing for the N5 now! I am stoked!
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57611881-94/it-wasnt-easy-but-camera-awesome-for-android-is-here/
It's not publically available for Nexus 5 yet though, so this thread feels premature. Cheers for the heads up, anyway.
Agreed, you got me excited with the title, but now I am mad because you jumped the gun. Should have added COMING SOON.
Warrimonk said:
Agreed, you got me excited with the title, but now I am mad because you jumped the gun. Should have added COMING SOON.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I probably should have said *potentially* lol. My bad for the poor choice of words! I will edit the title ;P
Needs to drop the ugly iOS like interface though. Its really grating.
ChrisM75 said:
Needs to drop the ugly iOS like interface though. Its really grating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I like it, but that's just me
That app is free on iOS. Bummer, but understandable as to why they made it a paid app.
Still waiting on Focal myself
Haven't gotten an answer on this in the other places I've asked. There are two different UIs shown in the pics for the app, one looks like iOS and the other looks like it may be a tablet UI. Can anyone confirm if the latter is a tablet UI. If it becomes the phone UI too it looks pretty nice.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Lewythefly said:
Still waiting on Focal myself
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err, why wait?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.xplod.focal
lyric911 said:
Err, why wait?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.xplod.focal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't work on the N5 yet mate, wont take a picture when installed
Hence I am waiting for it to be updated for the N5 and KitKat
Bump its been released now on android. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.smugmug.android.cameraawesome
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I'm messing with A Better Camera right now since it's free and I am liking it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
unforgivenmercy said:
Bump its been released now on android. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.smugmug.android.cameraawesome
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow 40 megs. Is that the best camera app?
Via my NeXus 5 on Tapatalk⁴
psousa781 said:
I'm messing with A Better Camera right now since it's free and I am liking it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried the "A Better Camera" app and I really liked it, only problem was the display was super dark which renders it unuseable - I think its not yet been made compatible with the Nexus 5 - anyone else having the same problem?
Troodos said:
I tried the "A Better Camera" app and I really liked it, only problem was the display was super dark which renders it unuseable - I think its not yet been made compatible with the Nexus 5 - anyone else having the same problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I emailed them about it and that asked that I send them some pictures which I did. Hopefully they fix it.
is the Camera Awesome app really the best out there? The features look good but the reviews are terrible and not very many downloads...
anyone have real experience with it before I commit $3?
The interface on this app looks so cluttered. I wish someone would just blatantly copy the iOS 7 camera app instead of trying to make an app that has literally every feature but 30 on screen buttons. Just simplicity with necessary functionality. It shouldn't really be that hard.
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So simple. So nice. Why can't someone make an interface that is as simple as that but even better looking?
70% negative feedback and you call it best camera app? Hahaha
I can't wait for someone to fix the camera app on N5. The lag is crazy.

Pictures taken with the LG G3

I'd like to start this thread as a dedicated place for your camera samples rather than the Z2 vs G3 thread.
The only reason I'm thinking about moving from the M8 to the G3 is for the camera. So let's see em guys! Low light, landscape, HDR, macro.. Post em here.
Go!
I was thinking about doing this too, since most of the world has the G3 now. Hopefully we get some good shots in here. Coming from a GS4, I'll be happy if picture quality is atleast equivalent.
Slash8915 said:
I was thinking about doing this too, since most of the world has the G3 now. Hopefully we get some good shots in here. Coming from a GS4, I'll be happy if picture quality is atleast equivalent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In highlight, gs4 is better (a lot)
low light, very unstable situation, hand held, my hand shakes a lot
https://db.tt/AaIg6lLi
Canard caché said:
In highlight, gs4 is better (a lot)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you see this?
Slash8915 said:
Where did you see this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cam sample of g3 + test of g3 + pics of g3 user VS my photos... no hard too see the différence
here is a full set of photos done in two days with the LG G3. The gallery at the bottom is fully downloadable at full resolution
http://goo.gl/fuL6VE
faremoney said:
here is a full set of photos done in two days with the LG G3. The gallery at the bottom is fully downloadable at full resolution
http://goo.gl/fuL6VE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... disappointing
Canard caché said:
... disappointing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think it is very good :-/
Canard caché said:
... disappointing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get the feeling you're sort of a troll.
Slash8915 said:
I get the feeling you're sort of a troll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all. But camera is one of the most important aspects for me
Slash8915 said:
I get the feeling you're sort of a troll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I don't think he is trolling. I'm not hugely impressed judging by that gallery and I'm the one who started this thread. I also have a G3 being delivered to me this week so I'm no troll either.
I think my M8 is great, but I wish the camera had more detail hence my interest in the G3. There is no way i'm going to spend my money with Samsung so this is another option.
this sample taken from the gallery posted shows that oil painting effect and not really good detail. I can't see it being a big enough step up from the M8 so far. I'd like to see others people shots though.
http://media.glistockisti.it/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/20140628_195500_HDR.jpg
The jury is out!
Canard caché said:
Not at all. But camera is one of the most important aspects for me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is for me too, which is why I'm going to be pretty pissed if I've been waiting all this time for the G3, and the camera is subpar... :/
This oil aspect = less noise yeah but also blurry texture/details = not so good
mwatson said:
this sample taken from the gallery posted shows that oil painting effect and not really good detail. I can't see it being a big enough step up from the M8 so far. I'd like to see others people shots though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL? This picture is infinitely better than anything coming from the M7/M8, detail wise. The camera on the M8 is the only reason not to buy that particular phone. It is abysmal.
Canard caché said:
This oil aspect = less noise yeah but also blurry texture/details = not so good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy a Nokia 3310: incredible battery life.
Carry around a DSLR all day: incredible photo's.
All problems solved.
The pictures will improve. The sensor is fine. Relax people, software updates will help.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Quick macro shot not the best light, results are very good.
Note that that's an HDR shot, so it did some photo merging. I would expect some weirdness and loss of detail for those.
mwatson said:
To be fair, I don't think he is trolling. I'm not hugely impressed judging by that gallery and I'm the one who started this thread. I also have a G3 being delivered to me this week so I'm no troll either.
I think my M8 is great, but I wish the camera had more detail hence my interest in the G3. There is no way i'm going to spend my money with Samsung so this is another option.
this sample taken from the gallery posted shows that oil painting effect and not really good detail. I can't see it being a big enough step up from the M8 so far. I'd like to see others people shots though.
http://media.glistockisti.it/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/20140628_195500_HDR.jpg
The jury is out!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of mine LG G3:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxiBqbezv8AWLWVfLXhKNF8ydkU/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxiBqbezv8AWOERidWpqZFN1OUk/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxiBqbezv8AWOEpWckJsWkF2Tnc/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxiBqbezv8AWTXI0Z3BiVkhXelU/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxiBqbezv8AWUW9PcXI1M2h5cVE/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxiBqbezv8AWWkN2ZGhOanZDWTQ/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxiBqbezv8AWWnQ4WVBjZUk4VW8/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxiBqbezv8AWbHFFQnE5d3lGU3c/edit?usp=sharing
I think the Best Camera is still the S5 or iPhone.
LG never really got the software right I think.

[Q] How good is the N4 camera?

HI guys, I'm currently using an s4 and my mom has a nexus 4 however she is not liking it and I'm thinking of switching our phones, i know the s4 has a better camera but how good is the one on the nexus 4? also how would you guys say the battery life is? thanks in advance
if you know how to use a camera, its a wonderful camera. if you just expect to point and click, and get wonderful photos, its so so. battery life is very good, i see 4.5-5.5h screen on time.
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I agree, the camera isnt bad at all. It is a matter of how you look at it. Just dont compare a smartphone camera to a dslr.
The nexus 4 is a great device and it never fail on me once. Of course it depends on the user and how you tweak your phone. I can tell you there are tons of modifications that you can do. It isnt a bad deal at all.
To keep it short: why dont you grab your mothers nexus 4 and try it out for couple days. All answers will be very subjective and in the end it is your decision. What matters is, how you feel!
BTW, I have a s4 and a nexus 5 as well. I HATE using the s4 camera, as Samsung's software does nothing but piss me off(lol), so i stopped using it. both n4 and n5 cams I really like.
thanks guys, I'm running CM11 on my s4 becuz touchwiz pissed me the heck off lol I'm a photographer so it helps to have a decent camera when i don't have my dslr with me i LOVE the sparkly back on it it looks so sweet not to mention my s4 isn't the prettiest phone out there lol
Love the N4, hate the camera
no_username_available said:
HI guys, I'm currently using an s4 and my mom has a nexus 4 however she is not liking it and I'm thinking of switching our phones, i know the s4 has a better camera but how good is the one on the nexus 4? also how would you guys say the battery life is? thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ONLY thing I've ever been disappointed in with my N4 is the camera. I also have the S4 (running CM11) and there's no comparison, the S4's 13 Megapixel camera blows away the N4's 8 megapixel. However, as long as there is PLENTY of light the N4 does take nice shots regardless of which camera app your using.
Battery life is almost a whole day running CM11 M8 build (4.4.4.)
Personally, I'm waiting for the G3..
thanks, ill just have to play around with the camera, guess you'll be seeing me on this forum quite a bit from now on
If you're looking for a good camera the last phone you want to get is the Nexus 4. Even the S2 camera is better...
You can do some adjustments to make the quality better (Exposure, Autofocus mode) but that will take you about 10 seconds which may be a lot if you need to take a quick shot
Mashed_Potatoes said:
If you're looking for a good camera the last phone you want to get is the Nexus 4. Even the S2 camera is better...
You can do some adjustments to make the quality better (Exposure, Autofocus mode) but that will take you about 10 seconds which may be a lot if you need to take a quick shot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. The GS4 has an amazing camera. I tried my mom's old gs4 and it's much better. I recently has a G2 for a while and used the camera quite a bit. The screen broke and I'm back to nexus. I feel like the camera is off a old Nokia phone compared to gs4 and g2. Before I had the g2, i thought the camera was actually pretty good.
well i bought a oneplus one and I'm just gonna sell the nexus 4 but thanks for your input guys much appreciated
no_username_available said:
well i bought a oneplus one and I'm just gonna sell the nexus 4 but thanks for your input guys much appreciated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good choice
Mashed_Potatoes said:
Good choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks
no_username_available said:
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As there is no official way of buying a One+One in Serbia i've checked the Serbian equivalent of eBay...someone is selling a brand new one, for 650 euros (950 canadian $).
It's the 16gb! WHAT A RIP OFF!
Mashed_Potatoes said:
As there is no official way of buying a One+One in Serbia i've checked the Serbian equivalent of eBay...someone is selling a brand new one, for 650 euros (950 canadian $).
It's the 16gb! WHAT A RIP OFF!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol what a rip, try oppomart and see if they ship to serbia

Suggestions for HTC

How about we start a thread for ideas for HTC instead of complaining about the M9.
PUBLIC RELATIONS 101
You don't get to sell millions of phones just by hiring Robert Downey Jr. They need to put more effort into PR.
dnkeyhnter said:
How about we start a thread for ideas for HTC instead of complaining about the M9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats a good idea... I would like to have seen the speakers take the form of the speakers on the nexus 9 so that the bezels was smaller... Also get rid of the black bar and make a bigger ONE as an option... Otherwise this phone would be perfect...
Sent from my LG-D850 using XDA Free mobile app
HTC should make one like this
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Super-Veloce said:
HTC should make one like this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that was the M9 it wouldn't even be a competition, although an RGB LED would be nice
Super-Veloce said:
HTC should make one like this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This phone would have eradicated the S6, this phone looks stunning. Can't say the same about the final design as that black bar is annoying.
Also a RGB notification light would be nice.
I hope to see a vocal assistant like siri or svoice
Better utilization of the camera, the HTC m8 has a great camera, so does the m9 I'm sure. But it doesn't even compare when it comes to my old Nokia Lumia 920. Possibly partner up with Camera makers like Nokia did.
EddyOS said:
If that was the M9 it wouldn't even be a competition, although an RGB LED would be nice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I really hoped it was going to be
geoff5093 said:
This is what I really hoped it was going to be
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the renders were not from HTC, they were all fan-based. Why get your hopes up for something that had no official links?
This is my issue with people's reaction to the M9. Although I'm disappointed with the design I'm also not surprised. HTC need to recoup some money and saving money on design means they can continue to move forward. It's good business sense. Design is already great, so address the issues with the M8 and bump the internal spec
I kinda like the front facing speakers of the one. I've never used an htc but it still looks nice for a change as all the prev phones iv used had a speaker on the back. Anyway, I think what htc needs is a notification led something like the OGP. That would be sexy.
Sent from my LG-E988
EddyOS said:
But the renders were not from HTC, they were all fan-based. Why get your hopes up for something that had no official links?
This is my issue with people's reaction to the M9. Although I'm disappointed with the design I'm also not surprised. HTC need to recoup some money and saving money on design means they can continue to move forward. It's good business sense. Design is already great, so address the issues with the M8 and bump the internal spec
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you a 100% and now they have a little more time to build next year's model... I bet it will be different next year, even though I hope it's not too different...
Sent from my LG-D850 using XDA Free mobile app
To be honest, I'm not even mad at HTC for black HTC bar either. It's not a big deal really.
Seriously guys, if you want BOOMSOUND, and I'm sure you do, you need to be okay with some sacrifices. Those things take some serious space on top and bottom.
And it doesn't even look that bad in my opinion. If they move it that's okay. If they leave it, that's okay. Same with the uncentered top speaker grill. It doesn't bother me. That being said, i wouldn't upgrade to the m9 from the m8, unless my m8 was broken. Which it is. I think the m9 is mainly targeted for m7 or onex/evo4glte users that never upgraded to the One series because if the 4up idea (which wasn't even as bad as it was made out to be). Which means... They should have had the camera software ready. If they do fix it, then great. but they are already losing customers because of the stuff going around about the"disappointing camera" gahh.
I'd say the best design change would be make the next either thinner, or don't have the camera protruding. That's about it. The phone is beautiful. They should make the HTC logo on the back stand out more. The two tone colors are nice, they should make the HTC lettering on the rear of the phone golden, too.
Sent from my 831C using XDA Free mobile app
QUESTION:
you guys are wishing for an rgb notification led... whu? how were notifications provided on the M8?
I'm in a S3 and plan on the M9, but I'm surprised to hear this.
Moderator Information,
Thread is classed as off-topic and has been closed as it is not directly related to the M9. The XDA off-topic forum is a good place for threads like this.
Stephen

disappointed with mate 9's quality conrol

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I just got mine from B&H today. And here is what I can tell from famous Leica lens. I never saw such kind of dust since Treo. Sign, Huawei even don't have a clean room...
They're actually Sony sensors but yeah unacceptable. Ask for a new unit.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA Labs
It's frustrating but give it another chance.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Absolutely, it's a great device. Don't let this put you off.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA Labs
jpsz said:
I just got mine from B&H today. And here is what I can tell from famous Leica lens. I never saw such kind of dust since Treo. Sign, Huawei even don't have a clean room...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just get a return and a new one. I've seen this on all smartphones. While not very common it does happen.
Just curious, is it actually visible in photos? Either way, I'd still exchange.
Governa said:
They're actually Sony sensors but yeah unacceptable. Ask for a new unit.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried looking, but haven't found out what IMX model sensors the phone is using. Do you happen to know, since you claim they are Sony?
Nitemare3219 said:
Just curious, is it actually visible in photos? Either way, I'd still exchange.
I've tried looking, but haven't found out what IMX model sensors the phone is using. Do you happen to know, since you claim they are Sony?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arent they leica?
aknotts415 said:
Arent they leica?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if Leica makes mobile sensors... they might just have done the optics and image processing. At this point nobody seems to know.
Whatever they did, the camera is pretty horrible. I like the phone, but I'll be the first to admit the camera is the worst I've seen in any phone I've owned in the past three or four years. No sharpness, no detail.
duraaraa said:
Whatever they did, the camera is pretty horrible. I like the phone, but I'll be the first to admit the camera is the worst I've seen in any phone I've owned in the past three or four years. No sharpness, no detail.
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What? Lol the camera is great. Something must be wrong with ur unit. Just go look at camera reviews for the mate 9 its def a great camera.
aknotts415 said:
What? Lol the camera is great. Something must be wrong with ur unit. Just go look at camera reviews for the mate 9 its def a great camera.
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Might have to do with the lighting in my house too. I don't take many pictures so I really don't care all that much.
duraaraa said:
Whatever they did, the camera is pretty horrible. I like the phone, but I'll be the first to admit the camera is the worst I've seen in any phone I've owned in the past three or four years. No sharpness, no detail.
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Either you have faulty unit in your hands or then your batcave needs to have couple light bulbs replaced?
Personally I rate Mate 9 camera second in my list.
I've had S7 Edge and iPhone 7Plus and Mate 9 goes middle of those.
duraaraa said:
Whatever they did, the camera is pretty horrible. I like the phone, but I'll be the first to admit the camera is the worst I've seen in any phone I've owned in the past three or four years. No sharpness, no detail.
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something must be wrong with your phone...
i got 10 friends randomly asked me from photos i post to facebook did i buy new dslr camera.... all photos taken with mate 9...i is by far best camera in any phone to date..
bRkiX said:
something must be wrong with your phone...
i got 10 friends randomly asked me from photos i post to facebook did i buy new dslr camera.... all photos taken with mate 9...i is by far best camera in any phone to date..
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+1 [emoji4]
Enviado desde mi MHA-L29
For information - most commonly when "famous" camera and optics brands borrow their names to phone and point-and-shoot makes, its just that - branding. They don't make the sensor and they don't make the lenses. They might have had a slight hand in the design process, i.e. the engineering side of it like drawing up the optical formula. It's not a quality stamp like an actual German made item.
Of course, that does not mean the camera is bad and the unit(s) in the Mate 9s seems pretty decent for this kind of device and definitely competitive. As a image maker by trade however, its obvious to me that it cannot compare to anything with a larger sensor quality wise. It's still a useful tool with creative potential.
Mac
Just do a google search...
Nitemare3219 said:
Just curious, is it actually visible in photos? Either way, I'd still exchange.
I've tried looking, but haven't found out what IMX model sensors the phone is using. Do you happen to know, since you claim they are Sony?
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Just do a google search for "mate 9 camera sensor specs"
revjamescarver said:
Just do a google search for "mate 9 camera sensor specs"
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tyvm for the advice. one year later the mystery is revealed. almost..

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