The Nexus 9 uses the F2FS (flash-friendly) filesystem as default, instead of EXT4! (see attached screenshot)
Also notice the 508 MB Swap partition in the screenshot...
edgarf28 said:
The Nexus 9 uses the F2FS (flash-friendly) filesystem as default, instead of EXT4! (see attached screenshot)
Also notice the 508 MB Swap partition in the screenshot...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you do a androbench benchmark please i want to know the storage performance
---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 PM ----------
edgarf28 said:
The Nexus 9 uses the F2FS (flash-friendly) filesystem as default, instead of EXT4! (see attached screenshot)
Also notice the 508 MB Swap partition in the screenshot...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is the swap file used for, is it for the cpu, does it use the ram?
The thing has the fastest set up it should be the most smoothest device ever made.
64 bit tegra k1 with geekbench single core performance of 2000 almost double that snapdragon 801.
Fastest internal storage chip. 15MB random write and 38MB random read.
Android lollipop
F2fs filesystem
2gb ram
---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------
bushgreen said:
Can you do a androbench benchmark please i want to know the storage performance
---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 PM ----------
What is the swap file used for, is it for the cpu, does it use the ram?
The thing has the fastest set up it should be the most smoothest device ever made.
64 bit tegra k1 with geekbench single core performance of 2000 almost double that snapdragon 801.
Fastest internal storage chip. 15MB random write and 38MB random read.
Android lollipop
F2fs filesystem
2gb ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
..
bushgreen said:
Can you do a androbench benchmark please i want to know the storage performance
---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 PM ----------
What is the swap file used for, is it for the cpu, does it use the ram?
The thing has the fastest set up it should be the most smoothest device ever made.
64 bit tegra k1 with geekbench single core performance of 2000 almost double that snapdragon 801.
Fastest internal storage chip. 15MB random write and 38MB random read.
Android lollipop
F2fs filesystem
2gb ram
---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------
.
..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 508 MB Swap partition do not use any RAM, I think it's just an partition on the internal memory to extent the RAM with 508 MB (so basically you have 1.8 Gb RAM + 508 MB Swap)
And see attached screenshot for the AndroBench results.
it is just plain stupid putting only 2GB ram on a 64Bit device and then helping out with 500MB swap. They could have easily add 3GB ram without any significant costs..
Funny thing is that the nexus 6 has 3GB ram and has a variant with 64GB disk.
Looks like f2fs is only used on the encrypted /data partition, /system and /cache still use ext4.
Also, the Nexus 9 actually has zram enabled, which explains the swap "partition". Having 2GB of memory with 0.5GB of zram is an interesting alternative to just using 3GB of memory instead.
farmerbb said:
Looks like f2fs is only used on the encrypted /data partition, /system and /cache still use ext4.
Also, the Nexus 9 actually has zram enabled, which explains the swap "partition". Having 2GB of memory with 0.5GB of zram is an interesting alternative to just using 3GB of memory instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, it is not an interesting alternative, it is a stupid one in every way. the nexus 9 is already quite expensive. 1GB ram just costs a couple of dollars and room is more than enough within. and considering it is 64Bit it will bloat up ram usage anyway, not to forget that this high screen resolution eats up a lot of ram, too.
a user said:
no, it is not an interesting alternative, it is a stupid one in every way. the nexus 9 is already quite expensive. 1GB ram just costs a couple of dollars and room is more than enough within. and considering it is 64Bit it will bloat up ram usage anyway, not to forget that this high screen resolution eats up a lot of ram, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's stupid until you realize how channeling works. The option to user zram is a very interesting one and it might be a better solution. So far benchmarks of the tablet agree with HTC/Google.
EDIT: also, in a serialized "queue" architecture like the this 64bit K1 with 2 cores, multitasking is not the priority. 2GB + zRam or 3GB should not make much difference.
Google opted for this kind of CPU in the N9 to make it as fast as an ipad air2 on your active task. You don't have multiple windows, you won't do true multitasking in this tablet. This is an ipad alternative, and even these architectural details show it.
FrankBullitt said:
It's stupid until you realize how channeling works. The option to user zram is a very interesting one and it might be a better solution. So far benchmarks of the tablet agree with HTC/Google.
EDIT: also, in a serialized "queue" architecture like the this 64bit K1 with 2 cores, multitasking is not the priority. 2GB + zRam or 3GB should not make much difference.
Google opted for this kind of CPU in the N9 to make it as fast as an ipad air2 on your active task. You don't have multiple windows, you won't do true multitasking in this tablet. This is an ipad alternative, and even these architectural details show it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a lot of unrelated stuff in your post. there is no need for zram or swap (regarding the first posts its swap and not compressed ram, but i do not know myself what it is) if you get an extra 1GB of ram. 1 GB of ram is ALWAYS better than zram or swap. zram is a nice option when you cannot extend the memory for various reasons and swap may be used for heigh memory use cases when you have some not too slow alternate memory. n9 internal memory is still damn slow for swapping (if it is indeed a swap faile on disk at all).
but actually there seems to be no good reason to not add an extra GB as we can see the nexus 6 has it, the nexus 9 ha definetly room for it (it is not like pc dram module) and it is damn cheap also.
secondly, i'm not talking about multitasking when i pointed out 64bit, so why the hell are you bringing this in? beside of that on a tablet multitasking it meanwhile not so uncommen. the point is that a 64 bit os has a MUCH larger memory footprint. also such high screen resolutions add a decent amount of memory either. and finally, your argument about benchmarks proving anything related to my comment is unrelated at best. it doesn't prove anything related to my statement.
there is aboluelty no reason to prefere zram or swap over an extra GB of ram, and it seems that there is nothing that would made it difficult for htc to add it. i can only assume that they added this just collect some experience on it and nothing more.
i really don't get it. what's the purpose of your statement? showing of your lack of knowledge or celebrating fanboyship "oh cool, they skipped a 5$ GB ram but gave us zram hurayyyyy".
sounds totally sound to give a smartphone 1GB ram more, same high resoltion on a smaller screen and twice as much disk space
EDIT: but please finally tell us WHAT exactly is so "interessting" adding zram or swap instead of one GB ram? you post has no information except this little claim. one might find this decision interesting of course due to its stupidity but it doesn't look that this is the source of your interest.
Any conjecture or theoretical analysis is ultimately pretty meaningless. Just let the performance speak for itself.
@mkygod hallelujah !! ??
a user said:
a lot of unrelated stuff in your post. there is no need for zram or swap (regarding the first posts its swap and not compressed ram, but i do not know myself what it is) if you get an extra 1GB of ram. 1 GB of ram is ALWAYS better than zram or swap. zram is a nice option when you cannot extend the memory for various reasons and swap may be used for heigh memory use cases when you have some not too slow alternate memory. n9 internal memory is still damn slow for swapping (if it is indeed a swap faile on disk at all).
but actually there seems to be no good reason to not add an extra GB as we can see the nexus 6 has it, the nexus 9 ha definetly room for it (it is not like pc dram module) and it is damn cheap also.
secondly, i'm not talking about multitasking when i pointed out 64bit, so why the hell are you bringing this in? beside of that on a tablet multitasking it meanwhile not so uncommen. the point is that a 64 bit os has a MUCH larger memory footprint. also such high screen resolutions add a decent amount of memory either. and finally, your argument about benchmarks proving anything related to my comment is unrelated at best. it doesn't prove anything related to my statement.
there is aboluelty no reason to prefere zram or swap over an extra GB of ram, and it seems that there is nothing that would made it difficult for htc to add it. i can only assume that they added this just collect some experience on it and nothing more.
i really don't get it. what's the purpose of your statement? showing of your lack of knowledge or celebrating fanboyship "oh cool, they skipped a 5$ GB ram but gave us zram hurayyyyy".
sounds totally sound to give a smartphone 1GB ram more, same high resoltion on a smaller screen and twice as much disk space
EDIT: but please finally tell us WHAT exactly is so "interessting" adding zram or swap instead of one GB ram? you post has no information except this little claim. one might find this decision interesting of course due to its stupidity but it doesn't look that this is the source of your interest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No...you would understand what he was talking about if you understood what he meant by "architecture". The Tegra K1 chip employed by the N9, aka Project Denver, is the first in order execution CPU since...like, 1990.......This device was never designed to multitask, as the CPU itself was designed to finish tasks in order, and be damn fast at that.
Here, read up on this: http://hothardware.com/News/Nvidias-64bit-Tegra-K1-The-Ghost-of-Transmeta-Rides-Again/
Adding 1GB of RAM is useless, since 64bit really needs 4 & up to shine, it doesn't make a difference whether or not you tack on another GB.....
UAL4588 said:
No...you would understand what he was talking about if you understood what he meant by "architecture". The Tegra K1 chip employed by the N9, aka Project Denver, is the first in order execution CPU since...like, 1990.......This device was never designed to multitask, as the CPU itself was designed to finish tasks in order, and be damn fast at that.
Here, read up on this: http://hothardware.com/News/Nvidias-64bit-Tegra-K1-The-Ghost-of-Transmeta-Rides-Again/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know very well how denver works and it still has nothing to do with what i said.
Adding 1GB of RAM is useless, since 64bit really needs 4 & up to shine, it doesn't make a difference whether or not you tack on another GB.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's simply not true! 64bit does not shine more orn 4GB ram or on 12GB. you need 64bit for 4GB+ ram (while 4GB actually works on 32bit with PAE). but i am not talking about when 64bit is needed to allow for more memory. i am talking about the double sized memory pointers, the bigger size ints and longs, due to 64bit! this caused all native code to consume far more memory. but as ia already said multiple times, not only the 64bit os itself eats a lot of memory it also the high resolution graphics but also the meanwhile increased resolution assets of android.
i don't say that it is actually needed to install more memory. but if they decided to add zram it seems they actually needed more memory. the point is that it is stupid to extend the memory with zram instead of just simply adding 1GB ram.
i can't say it more clearly. the stupidity is to NOT INSTALL 1GB MORE RAM BUT INSTEAD USE ZRAM TO MAKE UP FOR LACK OF MEMORY.
It doesnt need a swap file 2gb ram is enough
UAL4588 said:
No...you would understand what he was talking about if you understood what he meant by "architecture". The Tegra K1 chip employed by the N9, aka Project Denver, is the first in order execution CPU since...like, 1990.......This device was never designed to multitask, as the CPU itself was designed to finish tasks in order, and be damn fast at that.
Here, read up on this: http://hothardware.com/News/Nvidias-64bit-Tegra-K1-The-Ghost-of-Transmeta-Rides-Again/
Adding 1GB of RAM is useless, since 64bit really needs 4 & up to shine, it doesn't make a difference whether or not you tack on another GB.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arm chips didn't really start to use out of order instructions until the cortex a9, sometime around the Tegra 2 and the atrix. There were plenty, literally hundreds of android phones with cortex a7 and a8 cpu's with in order execution. (Think of the older snapdragons, the hummingbird, the omap's) Because this CPU happens to be an in order processor, doesn't mean its now a non multitasking tablet or OS. Multitasking performance should not be expected to get WORSE, with better hardware(I'm not saying it is, but it shouldn't be expected).
Yes 64 bit processors shine with above 4 gigs of ram(as far as mapping more memory), but 64 bit applications have a larger memory footprint than the same application compiled for 32 bit CPU's(uses more ram). So with the higher resolution and 64 bit OS, 2 gigs of ram may be pushing it, and it is probably why they added the swap.
No matter how you slice it, ram is always better than swap. Ram is always gonna be faster memory than a large storage device. If they thought 2 gigs would not be enough ram, swap should not have even be a consideration, just make it 3. The nexus 10 was a prime example of this due to the screen resolution and the GPU needing too much ram. Most of the 10's issues were the CPU not having quite enough power and not enough ram. Chrome would refresh pages with just a few tabs open when switching between them.
I personally would not trust a young filesystem that was initiated by Samsung.
Both of the above sounds like my data is at risk
After playing with it for a few days , I observed reload of the launcher sometimes. I am not sure if Lollipop is not yet well optimized for N9 or whatever. I think that 3GB of ram should be better.
2gb Ram is plenty it does not need the swap file
I hope the swap file ain't causing any slow downs or lag because it is reading writing to it instead of using the main ram
edgarf28 said:
The 508 MB Swap partition do not use any RAM, I think it's just an partition on the internal memory to extent the RAM with 508 MB (so basically you have 1.8 Gb RAM + 508 MB Swap)
And see attached screenshot for the AndroBench results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A swap partition is just that, it swaps memory to a file system when memory or other resources are gone. Some applications will do it by default.
I'm positive you don't have a grasp on linux or *inux systems. You should read up on 'em.
I beg to differ... I'm so sick and tired of all my apps getting booted out of memory the moment they're off-screen. Even the damn launcher vanishes way too quick and takes an eternity to reload. This tablet sucks for multi taking, even though the gorgeous screen is taylor-made for it.
a user said:
i know very well how denver works and it still has nothing to do with what i said.
that's simply not true! 64bit does not shine more orn 4GB ram or on 12GB. you need 64bit for 4GB+ ram (while 4GB actually works on 32bit with PAE). but i am not talking about when 64bit is needed to allow for more memory. i am talking about the double sized memory pointers, the bigger size ints and longs, due to 64bit! this caused all native code to consume far more memory. but as ia already said multiple times, not only the 64bit os itself eats a lot of memory it also the high resolution graphics but also the meanwhile increased resolution assets of android.
i don't say that it is actually needed to install more memory. but if they decided to add zram it seems they actually needed more memory. the point is that it is stupid to extend the memory with zram instead of just simply adding 1GB ram.
i can't say it more clearly. the stupidity is to NOT INSTALL 1GB MORE RAM BUT INSTEAD USE ZRAM TO MAKE UP FOR LACK OF MEMORY.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree with this, I'd be happy to pay $10-$20 more for and extra 1 to 2 Gb or ram.
Then they could have gone something like 4GB Ram + zram
Would have been better
And while denver may be an In order design, its 7 way Superscalar which should outweigh the benifits of a 3 way OoOE Design for multitasking
Related
I posted this in another thread but thought it was worthy of its own thread.
I've owned a lot of Android devices with 1GB of RAM - Xoom, Galaxy Tab 10.1, Galaxy Note, and the original Transformer. This is the first android device that actually shows 1gb of ram. Every 1gb phone or tablet I've had only lists around 750mb total, and then only about 400 or so free on a fresh boot. The explanation has always been that 1gb is shared ram and that the mixing 250mb or so is for video ram. You can see total and available ram in an app called OSMonitor. Anyway, the tf300 actually shows 1gb total ram, and 750 free on a fresh boot. So that's an extra 250mb of usable ram over other devices.
Thoughts?
The device has more as 1GB RAM (1,2GB maybe)?
Gesendet von meinem Galaxy Nexus mit Tapatalk 2
It's advertised as 1GB of RAM, so either it has more actual RAM (1.2 like you suggest) or it has dedicated video RAM somehow.
It's very possible this is inherent to Tegra3. I do not have any Tegra 3 devices to check. I'm going to ask in the Prime Q&A section.
Obviously either a design flaw or outright false advertisement. You should sue them for giving you more ram than advertised.
goodintentions said:
Obviously either a design flaw or outright false advertisement. You should sue them for giving you more ram than advertised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WTF? I'm not complaining I'm trying to understand it. It's different than every other Android device.
EvoXOhio said:
WTF? I'm not complaining I'm trying to understand it. It's different than every other Android device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodintentions is known to be sarcastic you will learn that in time. Most likley it is because tegra 3's gpu has its own dedicated ram so it does not go into the system ram
mrevankyle said:
Goodintentions is known to be sarcastic you will learn that in time. Most likley it is because tegra 3's gpu has its own dedicated ram so it does not go into the system ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would explain it. do you have a source link to back that up? not finding anything in a google search.
Thanks.
Everything im finding is that it just has the 1gb of ram, but possibly the way it handles it is different and may expand or shrink that video ram depending on what it needs.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-3-processor.html
just general info
also is DDR3
jblah said:
also is DDR3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah DDR3 means it's faster and has more bandwidth, but that wouldn't affect whether the system has dedicated or shared video RAM.
Is it possible that it's just more efficient in the usage of it's 1GB of ram than the previous products? I can't find any mention anywhere of Tegra 3 specifically doing anything or of the TF300 having more secret ram or anything.
That was the first thing that I noticed about this tab, is that the memory management on this tab is awesome. I can be running GTA3, have two or three tabs open in the browser and also be streaming music and the RAM only drops to about 550MB. At idle on a fresh boot, around 750MB free at idle, and If i do a task killer it will jump up to 830MB temporarily. I can only think it's becuase of the Tegra3 CPU. Regardless it's nice to see a tab with so much free RAM.
Scavar said:
Is it possible that it's just more efficient in the usage of it's 1GB of ram than the previous products? I can't find any mention anywhere of Tegra 3 specifically doing anything or of the TF300 having more secret ram or anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No because we're not talking about FREE RAM here we're taking about TOTAL RAM. either the system has more than 1GB or it's not sharing RAM with the video card.
das7771 said:
At idle on a fresh boot, around 750MB free at idle, and If i do a task killer it will jump up to 830MB temporarily. I can only think it's becuase of the Tegra3 CPU. Regardless it's nice to see a tab with so much free RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huge amounts of free RAM is not something nice to see; it's a pointless waste. I guess that misunderstanding is still pervasive in the "OMG tasks are in RAM MUST KILL THEM" community ...
nightwulf said:
Huge amounts of free RAM is not something nice to see; it's a pointless waste. I guess that misunderstanding is still pervasive in the "OMG tasks are in RAM MUST KILL THEM" community ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huge amounts of free RAM on a fresh boot is a GREAT thing. It means that the OS is lightweight and not loading tons of bloatware into memory. Now after using the tablet and opening tons of apps the free RAM should go down, if not then yes it is wasting RAM by dumping stuff out of memory.
But besides that the topic at hand is total RAM. more total RAM means more apps can stay in the background which means better multitasking.
They all actually have 1GB of RAM. The difference is simply that some chips separate the video RAM and the system RAM, where others are able to use a shared memory space and dynamically allocate RAM to video as necessary.
Most likely, devices with higher memory bandwidth will be able to use dynamically allocation because the extra bandwidth provides the overhead necessary to minimize performance impacts should the GPU need to pull more memory from the system on the fly.
On Tegra2 devices which were limited to 1 channel of 32bit ddr2, there is much less memory bandwidth than on tegra3 with ddr3 (or dual channel ddr2 like ipad). In this instance, it would cause a performance hit to have to free up extra memory from background tasks and then reallocate it to the gpu - so the solution is to just partition the entire memory into two sections each of which are generally large enough for both their respective duties: video ram and system ram.
EvoXOhio said:
Yeah DDR3 means it's faster and has more bandwidth, but that wouldn't affect whether the system has dedicated or shared video RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
current reviews & memory benchmarks have shown the 300 ddr3 ram shows no Performance improvement over Prime ddr2. developers here can probably make the most it though.
Finally you all have your own section. CONGRATS!
---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------
a.mcdear said:
They all actually have 1GB of RAM. The difference is simply that some chips separate the video RAM and the system RAM, where others are able to use a shared memory space and dynamically allocate RAM to video as necessary.
Most likely, devices with higher memory bandwidth will be able to use dynamically allocation because the extra bandwidth provides the overhead necessary to minimize performance impacts should the GPU need to pull more memory from the system on the fly.
On Tegra2 devices which were limited to 1 channel of 32bit ddr2, there is much less memory bandwidth than on tegra3 with ddr3 (or dual channel ddr2 like ipad). In this instance, it would cause a performance hit to have to free up extra memory from background tasks and then reallocate it to the gpu - so the solution is to just partition the entire memory into two sections each of which are generally large enough for both their respective duties: video ram and system ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he makes a great point. although no memory improvements shown in benchmarking, what he is saying could be seen as an improvement though. good info.
300 is not the only Tegra3 kid on the block with new DDR3 ram. Toshiba just released their Tegra3 Excite 10.1 in. tablet. it has gorilla glass, 1280x800 display, and 1gb DDR3 ram. available in 16 or 32gb. you can also order a 64gb.
demandarin said:
current reviews & memory benchmarks have shown the 300 ddr3 ram shows no Performance improvement over Prime ddr2. developers here can probably make the most it though.
Finally you all have your own section. CONGRATS!
---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------
he makes a great point. although no memory improvements shown in benchmarking, what he is saying could be seen as an improvement though. good info.
300 is not the only Tegra3 kid on the block with new DDR3 ram. Toshiba just released their Tegra3 Excite 10.1 in. tablet. it has gorilla glass, 1280x800 display, and 1gb DDR3 ram. available in 16 or 32gb. you can also order a 64gb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
500 bucks for a 32gig.... No sir.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
In the spec section Amazon lists the TF300 as having 2GB of RAM...I'm sure its a mistype though.
http://www.amazon.com/Transformer-TF300-T-B1-BL-10-1-Inch-Tablet/dp/B007P4YAPK
Running 2.6 Kernel mine shows 983,2 MB of Total RAM.
After installing some nec. apps it drops down from ~850 MB to ~630 of
available RAM. After removal of most BW it shows ~820 MB of free RAM.
It's normal behaviour. It just acts like the Prime. Open it und you'll see a Prime with some faster MemoryChips & an optimized board design
I just hated my Prime for many reasons, but I really love this one
They've improved very much here
Hi I just got a tablet but its not nexus 10 with 2gb of ram it only has 1gb of ram. I am contemplating on exchanging my tablet for a nexus 10 and I would like to ask you folks out there what on average is the available free ram on a nexus 10?
I think to average it out this post needs to have a lot of input.
PS Reply
I generally get 400-800 MB free of ram
Looking at free ram is a rather pointless measurement considering Android is Linux, and unix systems go by a "free ram is wasted ram" philosophy. With that said, mine is currently sitting at 541.5MB.
700M
kilopopo said:
Hi I just got a tablet but its not nexus 10 with 2gb of ram it only has 1gb of ram. I am contemplating on exchanging my tablet for a nexus 10 and I would like to ask you folks out there what on average is the available free ram on a nexus 10?
I think to average it out this post needs to have a lot of input.
PS Reply
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Thanks guys now i have an idea of how much memory is available on average.
I wonder if having 2gb is better than having 1gb of ram
Please search first, this question is near pointless and been asked a million times here, but to answer your question more ram never hurts but Android will hardly if ever run into low ram situations with 1gb of total system memory of more. Linux is different than a windows system and likes to use all available ram and when it needs ram for a task will kill tasks that have been idle for too long to free it up so task killers and monitoring free ram are time and battery eating tasks and you will be happier if you kick the habit ASAP
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
the nexus 4 has around 1800mb ram and the nexus 10 should have a similar amount
maxorelad said:
the nexus 4 has around 1800mb ram and the nexus 10 should have a similar amount
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not, larger resolution means it needs more dedicated to vram
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
ECOTOX said:
Probably not, larger resolution means it needs more dedicated to vram
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's kind of false advertising then. For example, should I sell my computer as having 10GB of RAM, even though only 8GB is actually usable as System RAM, with the other 2GB as Video RAM? Kind of silly imo... should of just put 2GB in the thing and then a separate dedicated amount for video.
But in any case, is there any actual hard proof this is what is happening? I wouldn't know where to begin to look really, but I'd love to see a section of the kernel code that actually dictates this, instead of just hearing "assumptions"
espionage724 said:
It's kind of false advertising then. For example, should I sell my computer as having 10GB of RAM, even though only 8GB is actually usable as System RAM, with the other 2GB as Video RAM? Kind of silly imo... should of just put 2GB in the thing and then a separate dedicated amount for video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you buy any computer without a dedicated video card you loose ram to the video processing. When you buy a 10gb computer you only get maybe 9gb usable. Same with hard drives due to formatting limitation, it's not false advertising that's how much it has. Consumer ignorance is not the same as false advertising. The system needs some dedicated to video, audio, radio, and anything else that can't have variable sizing. they told you the right amount but you didn't know that just like the desktop you buy in a store the total available isn't the same as user available because the system needs some of it
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------
espionage724 said:
But in any case, is there any actual hard proof this is what is happening? I wouldn't know where to begin to look really, but I'd love to see a section of the kernel code that actually dictates this, instead of just hearing "assumptions"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there is a section of kernel code that dictates it go look at the source. If it's like the samsung vibrant it will be in the kernel config file
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
yes we can
ECOTOX said:
When you buy any computer without a dedicated video card you loose ram to the video processing. When you buy a 10gb computer you only get maybe 9gb usable. Same with hard drives due to formatting limitation, it's not false advertising that's how much it has. Consumer ignorance is not the same as false advertising. The system needs some dedicated to video, audio, radio, and anything else that can't have variable sizing. they told you the right amount but you didn't know that just like the desktop you buy in a store the total available isn't the same as user available because the system needs some of it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose this does make sense; but even with the computers I owned that had integrated graphics, they had some kind of onboard memory attached to them. I could choose to alter how much additional VRAM I needed from system RAM, but didn't have to.
As for my Desktop, out of the 8GB installed in my system, only 1MB (according to Windows anyway) is unusable as "Hardware Dedicated".
Regardless, every other Android device I've seen has a specified amount of RAM it comes with on the box, and has "approximately" the same amount shown as usable in the OS itself. The Nexus 10 says 2GB, with only 1.6GB usable, which isn't nearly "as approximate" imo.
espionage724 said:
I suppose this does make sense; but even with the computers I owned that had integrated graphics, they had some kind of onboard memory attached to them. I could choose to alter how much additional VRAM I needed from system RAM, but didn't have to.
As for my Desktop, out of the 8GB installed in my system, only 1MB (according to Windows anyway) is unusable as "Hardware Dedicated".
Regardless, every other Android device I've seen has a specified amount of RAM it comes with on the box, and has "approximately" the same amount shown as usable in the OS itself. The Nexus 10 says 2GB, with only 1.6GB usable, which isn't nearly "as approximate" imo.
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Click to collapse
i can say with 100% certainty that any computer you have owned without a dedicated GPU that has been made within the past 5-6 yrs has at least 100-200mb dedicated to vram. If it even supports 8gb it is gernerally around 512mb that is dedicated as it probably is within 3-4yrs old and probably has an AMD radeon HD gpu or intel HD GPU which use 256mb at minumum. The only way you would have only 1mb taken is if you have a dedicated GPU or it is reading it wrong. I've worked with computer for over a decade and have had to explain this upwards of 100 times I can also say that every single android device with more than 256mb of ram has at LEAST 100-300mb of its ram dedicated to the GPU, the cell/wifi radio, hardware video decoder, camera, and anything else it needs. Samsung vibrant has about 200mb for those dedicated from the 512mb, galaxy nexus has about 300mb dedicated out of 1gb, hp touchpad about the same. Larger the resolution the more you need so 400mb to the system isnt very odd. Id say min 256mb for the resolution on the N10 for video, then probly 100-128mb for the hardware video decoder and 50mb or so for camera and for wifi radio. that totals to approximately 400mb depending on the exact amounts because i dont know them for the n10. If you really want to you can go into the kernel config and change the amounts, but you will break hd playback, picture taking,etc. Which is what would happen if i configured the amounts too low in my vibrant kernels.
---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------
ps, why must auto correct fail me sometimes? ^ x3
and to add to that, look at the amount of user available storage. Do you have the entire 16 or 32gb you bought? no, you will loose about 1-2gb from formating then another 1-2gb for the system and app storage
New nexus 10 user here. came from an htc flyer. Anyways, android assistant shows total ram on my device as 1.2gb or so. Specs say thing has 2gb. Does any ones else's device report that or is that the way android assitant reports it? I am just wondering if i have a new device with ram issues. Also, with not much running, this things shows available ram like my Vivid (about 300gb or so ) and it is supposed to have 2x the amount of Ram.
Thanks for any insight.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
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You could copy that everytime a new user asks about this ram "issue", which isn't, since I saw you answered like 7 times? the same thing.
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
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Not cheap marketing, laptop manufacturers have been doing this for ages with integrated video cards. It's a little deceptive but it's the norm for this. I the Galaxy Nexus also did it. I am not certain but I don't think any mobile device has dedicated video ram, I believe it just is not reported as missing.
The Galaxy Nexus shows as having 893mb of ram.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
lKBZl said:
You could copy that everytime a new user asks about this ram "issue", which isn't, since I saw you answered like 7 times? the same thing.
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Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
altimax98 said:
Not cheap marketing, laptop manufacturers have been doing this for ages with integrated video cards. It's a little deceptive but it's the norm for this. I the Galaxy Nexus also did it. I am not certain but I don't think any mobile device has dedicated video ram, I believe it just is not reported as missing.
The Galaxy Nexus shows as having 893mb of ram.
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I agree it's kind of normal, but it's how much is missing that still bothers me. The Galaxy Nexus is said to have 1GB of RAM, and if what you say is true, you're missing only a tiny bit over 100MB (which, is nothing imo). The Nexus 10 on the other hand is missing nearly half the advertised amount (not literally "missing" but not usable under normal conditions).
I'm pretty sure most laptop GPU's don't take "that" much RAM either when it's not dedicated (most I've seen was 512MB shared video memory, on laptops containing 4GB of RAM; very small amount really)
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the more i know and read about the n10 the more i feel being ripped off
Ripped of? For around $400-$500, you're getting a device with extremely high resolution (highest in its class EVER), a 1.7 GHz CPU with up to 2.1 possible, a software and hardware support guarantee from Google, an extremely competitive GPU, and future-proofing with the latest Android versions for years to come.
That sounds like a pretty damn good deal to me. I know I've loved my N10.
If you're having issues with your device its likely a manufacturing fault, just return it to Google and get a new one.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
hpl912 said:
the more i know and read about the n10 the more i feel being ripped off
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Rip off?
Have you checked how much usable space you have after formatting a 1GB drive? The N10 delivers the specified HW but there is always overhead required to use it, no matter which OS you have. That is just a fact of computing. I would argue that you get to use ALL of the N10 hardware when you accurately account for the a running OS and apps.
Compared to Win8 RT, Android (Linux) is a skinny fashion model. Go look at the Win8 RT tablet specs then see how much usable HW is left after it boots up. Here is just one example.
espionage724 said:
Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
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Lol why do you take it like this? I just said you answered a lot of times the same, and you could copy it since i'm sure you'll have to answer that again' Where's the problem?
espionage724 said:
Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
I agree it's kind of normal, but it's how much is missing that still bothers me. The Galaxy Nexus is said to have 1GB of RAM, and if what you say is true, you're missing only a tiny bit over 100MB (which, is nothing imo). The Nexus 10 on the other hand is missing nearly half the advertised amount (not literally "missing" but not usable under normal conditions).
I'm pretty sure most laptop GPU's don't take "that" much RAM either when it's not dedicated (most I've seen was 512MB shared video memory, on laptops containing 4GB of RAM; very small amount really)
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I stand corrected about the Galaxy Nexus. It reports at 693 available ram.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
Hello, I noticed that, from 4.1 to 4.3, ram dropped twice.
Now it's just a bit more than 1GB.
Well, I bought a device with 2GB RAM. I know, that's not completely wasted but allocated for GPU.
But... 1GB? On 4.1 we had 1.6 GB of real free ram, then 1.3 on 4.2, now 1.1!
And on kit kat? Maybe 512 MB?
Anyway. There is any way to get it back? Custom kernel? Custom ROM? No one tried this? I never compiled a ROM or kernel for android, so I have no idea where to start.
I think that's not an honest way of upgrading. 2GB was high end, and in android world would have been a lot of ram for a lot of time. 1Gb is just barely enough... It's already killing application, usually launcher or keyboard.
Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus con Tapatalk 4
gatsu_1981 said:
Hello, I noticed that, from 4.1 to 4.3, ram dropped twice.
Now it's just a bit more than 1GB.
Well, I bought a device with 2GB RAM. I know, that's not completely wasted but allocated for GPU.
But... 1GB? On 4.1 we had 1.6 GB of real free ram, then 1.3 on 4.2, now 1.1!
And on kit kat? Maybe 512 MB?
Anyway. There is any way to get it back? Custom kernel? Custom ROM? No one tried this? I never compiled a ROM or kernel for android, so I have no idea where to start.
I think that's not an honest way of upgrading. 2GB was high end, and in android world would have been a lot of ram for a lot of time. 1Gb is just barely enough... It's already killing application, usually launcher or keyboard.
Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus con Tapatalk 4
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There is lots of information out on the internet for this very topic. I believe it has to do with more memory allocation set aside for GPU or processing.
SmokinCharger said:
There is lots of information out on the internet for this very topic. I believe it has to do with more memory allocation set aside for GPU or processing.
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I know the theory, I don't care why they did that.
It's like selling it for 2GB, then getting 1GB back, then... It's a 1GB tablet!
They should put 1GB for GPU and 2GB for RAM. You know, RAM, Random allocation memory, something that should be accessible from every application, not just locked there waiting for the GPU.
320, even 512 could be acceptable as a sacrifice for GPU allocation.
On PC you can even allocate 64MB on Intel chipset for GPU... And on PC you can have a lot of spare memory.
And on a tablet...One of the most powerful, and what should have been a top-sell for Google, you reserve a gig for GPU?
That's crazy. I almost feel scammed.
On topic:
Yeah, ok, but... If I'm not going to play. Can I flash a different kernel with some different init script?
I think that's something kernel-level. I didn't even rooted my Nexus 10, so I have not a lot of information, but it's not a common thing for tablet > 1920x1080 to allocate a gig for GPU. That's not right... I feel robbed this way.
I also feel the same way. On the nexus s forums there is a mod for kernels called bigmem, which takes some ram from some of the components and make it available to the system, for apps. I think the 1st ones who did this are the cyanogenmod team themselves, in one of their roms.
A kernel dev could do some mods to give more RAM to the user instead of reserving it, lots of phones have kernels like this. Also things can be removed from the ROM to free up more RAM to the user instead of it being taken by system services. I think this is also a lot of the reason we have less free now with Android OS version upgrades, because Google is adding a lot more services and these services take memory. We used to have 512MB of memory reserved for GPU, this was increased to 768MB in 4.2.2. I havent looked at the changelogs for 4.3 on this tablet but I dont think the GPU specifically got more reserved. That other 256MB lost over these couple version looks to do more with system services than GPU reservation.
That is my interest. Is anything available? I don't play a lot.
On an Android device, memory means future proof. Not totally, but a big part plays there IMHO .
1Gb is becoming low end, my galaxy nexus swap a lot if I don't remember to swipe away some application from the application preview button. And my galaxy nexus have 1gb - something like 230 MB allocated = almost 750 mb free. Not too far from 1100 MB free.
It will take a few application update, newer g+, Facebook, Google music and chrome et voila... You launcher will have to restart every time loading your 80 application, and the app will lose data swapping between applications (meaning that it was killed to reserve memory). It' s already happening and it' s sad, since it's a high end device.
Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus con Tapatalk 4
I do not think anything is available now, everyone seems to be concentrating on adding features and functionality than slimming down and freeing memory. An example of what can be done is if you look in the GNex section of development there is a guy named mpokwsths with his "Mpokang kernel" that is removing things and slimming down the kernel to give more free RAM. I believe his thread says he is up at 772MB free on the GNexus now at boot. But no I dont think there is anything yet for the Nexus 10
gatsu_1981 said:
Hello, I noticed that, from 4.1 to 4.3, ram dropped twice.
Now it's just a bit more than 1GB.
Well, I bought a device with 2GB RAM. I know, that's not completely wasted but allocated for GPU.
But... 1GB? On 4.1 we had 1.6 GB of real free ram, then 1.3 on 4.2, now 1.1!
And on kit kat? Maybe 512 MB?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The rumor is that KitKat will be optimized to run on low-memory devices down to 512 MB (the article mentions android 5.0 Key Lime Pie, but it's likely that's what's being released as KitKat instead) when it comes out in a month, again according to the latest rumors. Presumably it will run a lot better on the Nexus 10, but we'll have to wait and see. At least we'll get it within a week or two of release, :highfive: as opposed to the many months most non-Nexus owners have to wait.
My K1 has upgraded to 7.0. it became slow when i use it. I rooted and optimzed it but it can olny get a lttle better.
I want to know if an android device can expand RAM by changing the RAM chip? And if it can perform much better?
its very difficult and not very cost-effective to hire skilled engineer to replace it . just buy a new tablet
Guan Yu said:
its very difficult and not very cost-effective to hire skilled engineer to replace it . just buy a new tablet
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so can u tell me will its RAM expand if i change the RAM chip withe higher one?
i saw the RAM of xiaomi tablet2 can be expanded with doing that. so can its CPU.
grayfox23 said:
so can u tell me will its RAM expand if i change the RAM chip withe higher one?
i saw the RAM of xiaomi tablet2 can be expanded with doing that. so can its CPU.
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i dont know cuz its also depend on software compability , but who know ? you can try it
Guan Yu said:
i dont know cuz its also depend on software compability , but who know ? you can try it
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1st,thank you for replying me. i did a lot of things befroe i buy it, because it is a second hand.and it former owner told me it was upgraded to 7.0 and became slow maybe because it 2GB RAM. so i was thinking if its RAM can be expanded by doing so.
Likely not, you will need a compatible ram chip. Even if the larger chip is compatible, the board or kernel may limit it to just 2gb. 32bit devices cannot use more than 4gb anyways. The best you can do is to just increase the swap.
grayfox23 said:
1st,thank you for replying me. i did a lot of things befroe i buy it, because it is a second hand.and it former owner told me it was upgraded to 7.0 and became slow maybe because it 2GB RAM. so i was thinking if its RAM can be expanded by doing so.
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I have been having the same thoughts as you. On this device, the ram is actually not built in the soc as most smartphones and tablets, its it separate from it on 4x512mb chips.
I got the tablet recently and the first thing that came across my mind was changing the thermal paste, the factory one is really garbage so I cleaned and replaced it with arctic mx2, under the heatsink of the soc and the ram there is some sort of a graphite thermal pad, which is not very efficient, I replaced it with thermal paste as well. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures, so idk what are the ram chips exactly, devcheck reports that the device has lpddr3 1066mhz ram but I'm not sure if that is trustworthy.
IMO upgrading the ram to at least 3gb is very possible, now the question is what kind of ram chips we need and where should we look for them.
Tegra K1 is practically the fastest 32-bit soc in existence, so more ram would definitely help it out a lot. I mentioned it in another post but on the latest firmware the ram usage is abnormally high on this device, sitting at about 1gb at idle(no gapps, LOS) while it should be closer to 500mb.