Database Users

Windows Blue/9 - Features

After seeing the leaked build of Windows Blue at http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/24/4...creenshots-leak-smaller-live-tiles-options-ui, it got me thinking about what I'd like to see. A video I saw had some good ideas but I know that us XDA members can do better. Said video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdqUsTAWSnY
Personally, I would like to see:
A better default e-mail app
Ability to boot straight into the desktop
More gestures
More optimization
Even faster boot times
What features would you like to see in the next version of Windows?

faster boot times is just greedy as it is my windows 8 machine booting off of an HDD side by side with a mates more powerful win 7 machine booting from SSD, my machine reaches desktop about a second after his does, and I have to go through a boot select screen and click a tile on the start screen.
Blue isn't 9.
Mail app we need yeah. I would add the music and video apps while your at it.
I dont own a touchscreen so gesture wise I dont care.
Booting straight to desktop would be nice I guess, I really dont care as I actually like the new start screen but some people of course ask for that feature anyway.
What I want to see:
Improved music and video apps, frankly, they suck. Music wise I now use "I love music" which isnt too bad but is a little rough around the edges, certainly better than default though
improved mail app (as you already said)
ability to resize the split between sideloaded metro apps
being able to run my desktop on one monitor and metro on another
my running desktop applications should be listed in the running applications sidebar on the left of the screen, that only seems to show metro applications
in the store app being able to list applications from certain developers (for example being able to look at the angry birds space entry and being able to click rovio to show all rovio apps).
While they are at it with releasing windows blue. XNA replacement please

SixSixSevenSeven said:
faster boot times is...
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Click to collapse
There is always something faster regarding boot times. There are some Chrome books which boot in 8 seconds compared to my laptops 14. The ability to split metro apps has already been added if you check the link about the leak from the Verge. All your suggestions are very good, hopefully at least a few of then will be in Blue
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

Reboot times are a total red herring. It's a waste of Microsoft's time to put a bunch of people to work shaving off another second or two. Why are people rebooting anyhow?? I never do except for updates. Sleep is faster to enter, faster to return from, doesn't require re-launching my apps, uses only trivial power, and is supported on all hardware I've seen this decade (although I did, about four years ago, encounter an NVidia driver whose preferred form of "screwing up your PC..." install process was to break sleep mode, which I fixed by rolling it back).
Now, if they want to make it so that reboots are needed less often, I'm all for that. More user-mode drivers, and/or modernize the kernel-mode driver stack to reduce how often KMDs require reboots (already much better than XP and below, but still too high). Make Windows Update better about not requiring reboot; I'm willing to close a program or even restart the desktop Explorer session (which takes moments) to avoid rebooting the whole machine.
Fix the <REDACTED> Start search. I don't understand why they took one of the best UI features of Vista, preserved it in Win7, and messed it up in Win8, but the whole segregation of "Apps", "Settings", and "Files" needs to stop, now! Launching programs is one of the very few core requirements of an OS, and the last two versions of Win8 were better at it than Win8 is (specifically, they required fewer clicks and showed more useful info at a glance). That's a travesty.
Metro apps and multi-monitor were already discussed. Instead of reiterating those, I'd like to see more capable Metro apps. Currently, they're locked down to nigh-uselessness from a get-stuff-done perspective. Consequently, I barely ever use them... but that's not good for the ecosystem, because it means that I (and people like myself) have much less incentive to develop them, too. One critical feature: the ability to launch other programs without the target being expressly designed for it.
As a Surface RT owner: remove the stupid prohibition against third-party desktop apps. Make it a hard-to-find setting if you must, but let me unlock it without needing kernel-mode hackery.
As a Surface RT owner: give me drivers! The USB port is already useful, but it could be a lot more useful.
As a Surface RT owner: add support for the low-power standby core of the Tegra 3. Battery life is good already but could be better.
Integrate something like OblyTile into the Start screen. Default desktop-app tiles are ugly.
Worth asking for: multiple (virtual) desktops? I mean, it's "just another app" now, right? I hate that in 2013 I still need to use third-party utiltiies to get this feature that all other common desktop environments have.
Please don't kill off the SUA (Subsustem for Unix Applications)! At the very least, open-source it when you drop official support, so the community can introduce some long-overdue fixes. But seriously, that thing is useful. Cygwin is a nasty hack by comparison.
A virtualization environment that supports high-end graphics would be nice. There's a lot of games that run like crap on NT6 but don't run on virtual XP machines using any of Microsoft's virtualization environments. That directly contributes to the market share of third-party virtualization software. MS used to be good at this VM thing for uses other than servers...
Lots more, but this post is long enough as is. That covers most of the gripes I have at least once a week using this OS.

Most of these are from the viewpoint of an RT user, unless noted.
Critical:
Allow unsigned desktop apps
Allow third-party Metro apps (sideloading)
An alarm clock on RT
Allow metro apps to run backgrounded without requiring them to be pinned to the lock screen
WinRT lacks some major features in the API set (from what I've experienced, lack of client-side cert support for SSL, lack of decent background capabilities, and lack of VPN, though they claim to be fixing the last one)
Go back to the idea that developers create the platform and stop trying to mimic Apple by closing the ecosystem down
Desired:
Allow a hotzone for corners, instead of just a hotspot (x86, mostly)
Better mail app
Allow start screen wallpaper customization without tedious hacks
Allow fine grained tuning of which settings are synced between computers (I don't want the same wallpaper on my tablet and desktop, for example, so I have to turn off syncing all customization settings)
Open up the ARM DDK
Documentation on what features are lacking/missing on ARM Vs. x86.

The current sideloading situation works fine for me, though I agree with the rest of those. I might care more if I found Metro less useless in general.

Hmm, my Lenovo Twist cold boots in about 3 seconds. Doesn't get much better than that.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app

It really doesn't, actually. The default "shut down" behavior on Win8 is to reboot the machine, and then enter hibernation right before showing the login screen. This is one of the lowest-RAM-usage points in the operation of a PC, so both entering and leaving hibernation here is extremely fast. When you "cold boot" your system, all that is happening is the power-on self test (which is very fast on modern hardware), followed by the OS resuming from the minimal hibernation image (which could easily take three seconds or possibly less with an SSD but not a ton of RAM). Bam, you're at the login prompt in what seems like no time at all!
If you want to do a true cold boot, you'll need to either disable hibernation boot (one of the easiest ways to do this is to disable hibernation entirely using "powercfg /h off", probably must be run as Admin) or you'll need to remove power while the system is running (as in, remove the power cord and remove or drain the battery without allowing it to enter sleep or hibernate). You can get an idea of the true bootup time just by rebooting the machine, but a machine built for Win8 probably won't show you the point where the "shutdown" portion switches off with the "bootup" portion; using EFI, that whole thing can be hidden.

Wouldn't electricity bills go through the roof if all 5 PC's in my household were on hibernate 24/7 365?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app

mmmcfc said:
Wouldn't electricity bills go through the roof if all 5 PC's in my household were on hibernate 24/7 365?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
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They're off when they're in hibernate. Hibernate saves the state to disk then completely powers off the computer. You could literally unplug it for 5 years and it would still have the state.

Yep, hibernate's entire point is that it uses no power. However, maybe you meant sleep instead, also known as suspend-to-RAM and which does use a trickle of power. It's a small trickle, though; a PC in Sleep mode draws less than five watts (and most draw only one or two). Five PCs in sleep mode, assuming they're big, beefy, and incredibly inefficient, plus have every kind of wake-on-event (wake-on-LAN, wake-on-click, wake-on-timer, etc.) option enabled, will draw about 25W - non-trivial but less than half what a typical incadescent light bulb draws. Realistically, it would be closer to 5W, especially if some of them are laptops (which only use a portion of a watt).
Depending on the percentage of time that the PC is on anyhow and how efficient its sleep mode is, you may actually be wasting power by taking the time to turn it off, then on again (requiring restarting its programs) all the time. Entering and exiting sleep is effectively instant.

I for one would love to see custom backgrounds on the Start screen, as well as Google Talk support in the Messaging app. One of the main reasons I still have to keep a GMail tab open on Chrome, so I can receive IMs.
Also I would be pleased if they returned Google Calendar syncing after the updates a few days ago. I was very annoyed when all my Calendar events disappeared, but seems to have gotten better since I worked around that with the subscriptions feature in Outlook.
More functionality in the Metro/Modern part of the OS would also be good, but I have already seen that happening with the recent leaks.
Edit: And I also would love to see Aero Glass with Blur come back in the Desktop. Although there are a few hacks to get it working, most do not have similar functionality to Windows 8 or are buggy. The only good one imo doesn't support 32 bit.

How come my windows phone syncs with google fine. Yet windows doesnt.
Google have more sync options than EAS and contrary to MS's claim EAS is still active until june or july.
All they have done is made the mail and people apps worse not better.
Anyway. Supposedly in the blue leak IE11 now has stubs for WebGL support. If this is true then windows blue presumably has OpenGL support, possible for store apps too. OpenGL, even if it is just the ES subset, on RT has been an often demanded feature.
So many android and iOS apps are written with OpenGLES, if microsoft wanted an app rich store then it really would have made sense to support OpenGLES to allow porting of iOS and android apps to windows without having to be rewritten for DirectX11 (not a simple task in many cases).

Oh, overall they made Mail a lot better... but it pisses me off that for people who already had a working Google EAS connection, they went and disabled it. I'm holding off on updating my other devices for now. As for "more sync options than EAS", this is technically true (and the new version of Mail offers to set them up for you), but the others are not as well integrated (one protocol to provide contacts, email, calendars, and security policies).
WebGL support I'm actually kind of skeptical of; the web is a very hostile environment and video drivers are a frightening combination of high-value targets and shaky security. I'm concerned about the attack surface exposed by enabling WebGL. However, it's true that OpenGL, even just OGLES, would be a huge boon to the platform. Windows and DirectX may still rule the roost for PC games, but even there their lead is eroding. In the mobile space, OpenGL has left DirectX in the dirt.

Question before installing Windows 8?

1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

For question 1, yes, this is what I did.
For question 2 I don't know.

SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you can. the installer will give you options on what you want to keep
no. you must create a restore image on an external hard drive if you want to return back to windows 7

In-place upgrades are possible and are technically a supported scenario, but they are a *terrible* idea. They are, at best, going to save you a bit of time reinstalling apps (even though the install process itself takes vastly longer when doing an in-place upgrade, so I'm not sure it's a net positive even there). At worst, you'll end up with an unbootable system due to an unexpected driver incompatibility or something silly like that, lose all your data, and need to reformat and do a clean install anyhow. The usual result is somewhere in between; your system will be less stable than it should be, will take longer to boot up, some programs won't work after the upgrade and will need to be reinstalled anyhow, and at some point in the near-ish future (six months to two years) your systme will develop odd misbehaviors that will require you to effectively reinstall WIndows anyhow (that's what the refresh and reset operations in Win8 basically do, with or without preserving your files, respectively).
Also, if you opt for a clean install, you'll know you have a backup of all your data. That's pretty valuable. You can (and should; the bit about the upgrade failing and you losing access to your data was not a joke) make such a backup anyhow, of course.
As for being able to revert to Win7, the only way that'll happen is if you back up the whole system drive. Restore points don't work between major versions; if you do an in-place upgrade, you won't be able to downgrade it again short of restoring a backup or wiping the system and instally Win7 cleanly.

I did it
SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After doing an in place Upgrade on my box i hope my story will help you.
I simply couldn't resist the offer MS made 'til 28 Feb 2013 so i downloaded Windows 8 64 Bit to my Laptop and after the Upgrade Assistant gave me a green light and promised except for the ATI drivers everything should work out i started the upgrade. After roughly 4 h the Upgrade process was done and windows 8 ready. Even the mentioned ATI driver was not a big problem because after the initial upgrade windows 8 asked if i would care to update it and did so.
Windows 8 is creating a Backup of your current installation so there is a restore point you can use. I did not try it out and after 2 weeks i deleted the restore Point.
So far so good. The installation wasn't that complicated. Unfortunately after that i could no longer install any Program or update. The reason behind it was that the upgrade process is exchanging something in the users Registry and after that the security checks simply denied me access to the file System. Even booting in recovery mode did not help (just like my Android GBook tablet at the moment ) . Only way to cope this was to create a new User with Admin Rights as a replacement. Doing so one of my document Folders got lost in transition. I still have no Idea what happened but after moving a Folder from MyDocuments user old to MyDocouments user new the Move process suddenly died and the files where gone. I did have a Backup so luckily it was just annoying but still gave me a rough time figuring out what happened.
You will probably be bothered to reinstall some applications (MS Apps will work) and the new interface is something to get used to for a Lot of Developers.
My System turned quiet a bit slower because of the ever running index service etc. Indexing is even denying write access to newly created files quite regularly and you will have to wait for it to finish before file operations are possible. You definitively have to tune system services if you want a system that is not slowing you down.
My final advice after 2 Month using Win8?
Don't do an in place upgrade it if you don't have to. Windows 7 was working perfectly for me. After 15 years of IT Support under my belly (even thou most of it doing Back-office Servers) Win7 felt like an OS that wasn't in the way and did a great Job. Windows 8 will get in your way via slowing down your Box and making steps that were natural in win7 more cumbersome.
Especially System settings are more or less hidden (because the average "dummy" user needs to be protected from it :silly: ) and are hard to find. Turning every entry in your Start menu into an Metro Icon does not Help either. It's just messing up your start screen. Be Prepared to switch between metro and "normal Desktop" quite often if you are still using "older" programs. Even if you don't want to your Program will decide for you .
I think a fresh install helps in that category because it might make it easier to "switch your mind" to the new environment. It will also be a chance to clean your System of old and rarely used programs.
If you still want your Upgrade make sure your Backups are up to date and Working!
Hope this is helping you out.
Cheers
Lanman99

Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade.
Four hours to upgrade (when a clean install takes 15 minutes): check
Permissions messed up afterward: check
Performace actually decreased (even though a clean install of Win8 performs better than a clean install of Win7 on the same hardware): check
Data loss (your Documents folder): check
As for your points re: Win8 itself: first of all, if your only experience with it is based on that abomination of an in-place upgraded system, assume everything you "know" about the OS from that experience is wrong. I've been running Win8 for ~1.5 years now (counting betas) and have never had the problem with indexing service (which runs low-priority and doesn't take system resources that you're trying to use for anything else), data loss from library or folder movement, or any of the other problems you mention. I did try an upgrade install during the betas, but the result was trash - a bunch of features didn't work afterward, and the performance was worse than it should be - and the response when I reported the issues was "do a clean install". Upgrade installs are only *technically* supported; even MS thinks they're a bad idea.
Judging on OS based on an upgrade install is like judging a car model based on taking that car's interior and body, but replacing the engine, transmission, suspension, electronics, wheels, brakes, lights, and wipers with random junk you pulled out of a wrecking yard (without checking the original model) and beat into shape with a hammer and a hacksaw. Sure, it *looks* like it's easier (cheaper than making the needed money to buy the actual model) than buying a new car, and if you're really careful and moderately lucky, it will actually run pretty well and not strand you in the middle of nowhere or burst into flame or something awkward like that. It's going to be a complete pain in the ass to maintain though, you'll end up having spent a ton of time hacking it together in the first place and then keeping it running until you quickly pass the point where it would have been easier to just get the new car, and in the meantime it will never perform as well as it "should" have. Putting a bunch of junk car parts in a BMW body does not mean you're driving a BMW.
By the way, those problems that I didn't have? That even includes the "switching back and forth" thing, because I found it was a lot better to just not use Metro at all. I treat the Start screen the same way I treat the Start menu on older NT6.x versions: an irrelevant graphical thing that pops up for the half second where I type the name of a program I want, in between when I hit the Windows key and when I hit Enter. I pinned my most-used apps to the taskbar. My typical admin stuff is on the Win+X (or right-click the Start button - yes, there is one, it's just hidden until you hover over it) menu. Outlook is a better mail client than Mail, and better scheduling tool than Calendar. Pidgin is better than Messenger. If for some reason I want to log into Facebook, I have this thing called a "web browser" (which runs in a window, with all its features instead of a crippled subset of them, thank you very much).
Metro Skype is good enough I do use it sometimes, although I snap it to one edge of my (very wide) screen so it doesn't get in the way; I've considered going back to desktop Skype anyhow. Desktop SkyDrive is much better than the Metro one. Same for desktop OneNote vs. the Metro version. The only Metro apps I actually use much are games, and frankly I don't use Metro games that often on my main (desktop) Win8 box; why would I, when I could play Eve Online or Civilization / Alpha Centauri instead?

I only had the problem of a few games and visual studio needing a reinstall on my upgraded system. Not one of the other issues mentioned.
Oh, also had an issue where before the update it said my GPU drivers wouldn't work post upgrade, they did and as soon as I upgraded I was able to obtain native windows 8 drivers anyway. My integrated GPU was fine.

GoodDayToDie said:
Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade....
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Abomination is probably a bit harsh (i'm still working on that monster )
Don't get me wrong. I don't wan't to bash windows 8 for the sake of it. I just don't see a urgent reason to advise SysAdmNj to upgrade. Especially not an in-place upgrade. And i definitely agree that a clean install is the first choice to move to any new OS.
BUT surprisingly i pulled the same stunt growing from Vista to win7 on my Dell Studio 17 which went great. I had 1 issue with the on-board camera but other than that my notebook was running better, faster and more stable afterward and that was the primary reason why i tried it again with win7 to win8 on my lenovo. Still i got it working and at least it gave me valuable support experience and it's a dirty job but somebody...
Reason to try Metro is also based on my Idea to stay ahead of my Users. I think Metrostyle systems will be heading in our direction if we want it or not. It is to tempting for the marketing branches of our major OS vendors so i keep tinkering with it.
That "Back and Forth" simply lies in the program designs. It will just take me some time to get used to it, sorry but i'm old ).
Some of my apps (namely Hotmail which became Outlook) are seamlessly integrated and as you already mentioned much better than before most others are still written for WinXP/Vista/7 and will bring you back to familiar havens. Internet is done by a heavily customized FF portable, so carefree covered.
My main critique boils down to System settings Metro style. A lot of settings, tools and tweaks which grew into supporters hands look castrated to fit the average users need. That really is annoying. It looks i have to brush up on system scripting skills to support my colleagues. Thought i could get away with less typing these days :crying:.
...and yes switching a self patched '74 Beetle engine in a 2013 Beamer won't make a Racing machine but it looks funny trying to get away with it .

Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7
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Click to collapse
Yes if you are on your desktop. Starting up Metro won't give you that. You have to switch to your Desktop first. Or activate "All Apps" and sidescroll to Systemsettings. Besides it is not integrated which leads you again to your Desktop.
So System Settings = getting around Metro. The Settings Metro offers are still limited. Which IMHO is not a good way to do it. Yes it sounds nitpicking but if MS decides to get completely rid of our beloved Desktop, Metro is all you get.
But as i said, maybe just getting old...

On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In windows 8.2, there is supposed to be the Pc settings with more options like power options in it. This will not get rid of the desktop control panel though
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Maybe I should have created a poll. Should I stay on windows 7 or upgrade?
I dont know now. I'm not crazy about windows 8. I'm fine on windows 7. Thing is most laptops come with windows 8 so I thought I might as well start familiarizing myself more. Although to be honest I think even if I was to buy a new laptop with windows 8, I would just clone that image and just restore a windows 7 image with all my apps etc. That or just change the hdd with mines
But thanks for all the insights.

Win8 does perform better, and has some cool new features (built-in ISO mounting, for example, is long overdue). If you do what I do, and mostly treat it as Win7 that has one more slot on the Taskbar than normal, it's a great OS. There are some things that mildly bug me, like the removal of window border transparency, but that's hardly a big deal.
The Win+X menu (or right-click on Start) can be done from anywhere; you don't have to be on the Desktop already. Selecting the Control Panel from that menu will open up the Desktop-mode Control Panel whether you're in the Desktop, the Start screen, or some Metro app.

I actually prefer the lack of border transparency and the flat colours etc, guess that's just personal preference though.

If you have a spare box--techies should always have a spare box--pop Win8 onto it to play around. If you're happy with Win7, I'd stick with that for your production box(es).
It's OK to skip Win8 (and 8.1). It's a transition rev, and biz won't migrate to it. There'll be more changes when Win9 rolls out next year, so even if you're set on sticking with Win, you can save half the work by jumping on Win9 then, because sure as heck you won't stay with 8.x when 9 is out.
Basically, if it's fun, then do it. If it's work, then don't.

There hasn't even been so much as a hint from Microsoft that there will be a windows 9 any time soon. I think we're in for a few more years of updates yet, windows 8 can still be "fixed".

Microsft stated - over a year ago, I think - that Windows was moving to an annual, smaller-releases cycle. Win8 and WP8 were the first OSed released after that announcement, with "Blue" for Windows and Windows Phone expected later this year (about one year after the W*8 releases). WP9-related job postings, referencing that OS by name/number, have already been posted on LinkedIn as well.

Is the new Windows 8 finally worth the transition from 7?

My biggest fear is that troubleshooting, and the hell hole of creating network drives, sharing permissions and all kinds of other thigns I had to do to stream my Media to my android and PS3 will just repeat itself or get worst if I upgrade.
What are the general experiences with media and directory sharing on Windows 8 vs Windows 7? Can you drop all of Microsoft's security mechanisms as a whole?

hm
write a simple script for your network file sharing, are you doing an upgrade or going from scratch?

buffalosolja42 said:
write a simple script for your network file sharing, are you doing an upgrade or going from scratch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unsure about that. I would like to from scratch since if I do make the move to Windows 8 I will probably load it onto an SSD and have two HDDs for storage

Wrong forum, mate. This is Windows Phone 8. The Windows 8 forum is over there. Please ask a moderator to move this thread.

I was shocked with how stable Windows 7 is, it very rarely freezes or reboots etc.
I can't believe how often Windows 8 freezes, reboots, fails to start, can't diagnose startup problems or if it does, I do it 3 times and somehow it finds a problem on the third time, why is that?
I use exactly the same programs on each OS. I have used 8 preview, 8 and now 8.1 each one is unstable and creates problems. For a desktop user, it's a nightmare.

SharpnShiny said:
I was shocked with how stable Windows 7 is, it very rarely freezes or reboots etc.
I can't believe how often Windows 8 freezes, reboots, fails to start, can't diagnose startup problems or if it does, I do it 3 times and somehow it finds a problem on the third time, why is that?
I use exactly the same programs on each OS. I have used 8 preview, 8 and now 8.1 each one is unstable and creates problems. For a desktop user, it's a nightmare.
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I have been running windows 8 on my daily use machine since the week it launched, not once has it frozen, rebooted or failed to boot. Nor have I heard of such prolific issues from anyone else

Honestly I threw 8.1 preview on one of two new boxes at home, 7 Ultimate on the other.
Both with SSD caching and boot times are similar. Performance also seems similar.
I got one copy of 8 for one system and one for the other.
Metro was made for touch screens (and is great with one) - but the box with 8 will never have it.
So I have it boot straight to desktop and I'll live on the desktop except for occasionally finding an app.
(Think I might look at that Pokki or other start menu alternatives..)

If you have a touch screen go 8. If you don't stick with 7...

According to me it is not up to the mark...... 7 is better may be future updates may change my attitude...
Sent from my Xperia U using xda app-developers app

I cannot find *one* thing superior in windows 7 to windows 8 bar the fact that driver signature enforcement is enabled (but can be disabled for a single boot if you need to install some drivers anyway, once installed an unsigned driver will work fine after a reboot).
Start button being absent like everyone complains about. Who seriously uses the start button? All it does is let you launch programs or shut the PC down. Well I can launch programs just fine from desktop (albeit I like a clean desktop so don't), task bar, start screen or via search. Search is easy to get to, hit the windows key to go to the start screen, start typing and it immediately searches for that program. Shutdown, I never shut down from the start bar anyway and haven't in years, Control-Alt-Delete, or charms bar > settings > Power > Shutdown. Or windows key + D to go to desktop (or the button on the task bar, or some other way that I don't care to mention) and hit alt-F4 and windows will prompt for shutdown. Admin functions like control panel etc, hold the windows key and press X, a menu appears where the start button used to reside and lists most useful functions immediately, or you can move the mouse into the bottom left so the button to go to the start screen appears and then right click it.
Metro/Start as they prefer to call it that (seriously, they dropped the metro name way before full release) you look at for all of 2 seconds. I have a tile on it to go to desktop, but prefer to use windows key + D. Other than that, I actually use it with tiles for my favourite programs neatly pinned to it.
The start button is archaic. I saw someone saying that its impossible to throw away years of using a start button, I honestly wondered who was still using it, it was hideous. I got my first PC when I was 8, 2002 if you must know. At the age of 8 you learn to do things 1 way and usually stick to that. Yet I got windows 8 shortly after release (it was still during the discounted price period) and adapted to the lack of start bar within an hour, prior to that I was a heavy computer user. There we go, 11/12 years of heavy computer usage with the start bar being present and I throw it out within an hour. That was so hard.
Things change. Deal with it. The start button has been with us for how long and it is finally old enough that it needs putting to rest. Once upon a time we only used "primitive" command line entry systems (many still do), many of those users were angry when the modern desktop appeared, now its commonplace.

SixSixSevenSeven;45816830 ...
Start button being absent like everyone complains about. Who seriously uses the start button?[/QUOTE said:
Are you serious?
Given that Windows 8 has been dubbed the new Vista by many major publications, computer experts and power PC users, and that one of the biggest complaints among these users and businesses in surveys and that feedback from multiple major global PC manufacturers from consumers that the Start Menu was one of their key issues, given that the largest computer manufactuer by sales - Lenovo has intervened and preinstalled the free Start Menu replacement Pokki on all new Windows 8 machines, given the sheer amount of questions on this site about the Start Menu, give the huge number of sales of 3rd party software that replace the missing Start Menu (such as Start8) I would say many, many, many of us use the Start Button and the Start Menu.
Logical error #1 'If I have no use for this, then no one else does' ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Vista came out six years ago. Huge numbers of people *still* actually go into a menu structure to find their programs instead of just typing a few letters of the program name or description or executable file name, then hitting Enter.
The only conclusion I've been able to draw from this is that the majority of computer users are, in effect, idiots. This seems somewhat unlikely, but I'm pretty sure that recognizing the advantages in speed and convenience do not require above-average intelligence, yet people still fail to take advantage of it.
The Start screen is irrelevant to me, aside from its segregation of search results (fixed in 8.1 anyhow). The demand for Start Menu replacements says an awful lot about the intelligence of the Windows userbase, more than about the quality of the OS in general. With that said, I will grant that the Windows devs may have screwed up by failing to take into consideration just how dumb their target market is (at least with regard to computers).
Educating them - on a grand scale, the way MS did for the Start button in Win95 - might work. It would be interesting to see. The MS of today seems completely incapable of effective marketing and communication compared to the Microsoft of yesteryear, though.

In my opinion, Windows 8 is a great system for what is under the hood. The system and startup is dramatically feature and has much more safety features built in. The fact that Microsoft built in Microsoft Security Essentials means that you no longer have to deal with anti-virus and firewall stuff and since it is built in, it doesnt slow down your system anymore is a bonus. Also, the new backup features, performance tools and task manager are greatly improves and much better then recent versions.
As for the metro (or "modern") garbage, If you are using your PC as umm.. a PC it is really un-needed and unnecesary but is easy to get rid of using third party apps to get you back to the Windows 7 style desktop. I currently use Startisback which also makes other desktop changes to get rid of metro completely. If you want apps, installed Google Chrome and use Google's new desktop apps. This would also make it much easier for Android users as everything pretty much syncs with the phone.
One small other "rant" make sure you use a uxtheme patcher and a visual style... whose idea at Microsoft was it to use black text in the window border but white text on the taskbar?
In my opinion that gives me the best of all worlds.

SharpnShiny said:
Are you serious?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I am. I find the idea of the start button to just be obsolete and the new system to be FASTER for power users who can be bothered to get their heads out of their asses and adapt to change.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Actually I am. I find the idea of the start button to just be obsolete and the new system to be FASTER for power users who can be bothered to get their heads out of their asses and adapt to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete

hakcenter said:
Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't need the mouse to navigate windows 8 itself. See that lovely windows logo key, press it, takes you straight to the start screen where you can start typing. Want to get to the settings charm to shut down the pc, windows key + I, if you want you can even navigate that menu with the arrow keys but alternatively the icons are large so easy to hit with a nice imprecise high speed mouse movement. Windows key + X, opens a menu with things like control panel and device manager etc, in this list each item has a single character somewhere within the item name underscored, press thus character and it selects that menu option, Win + X and then C opens the command prompt for example. Very little mouse use is required, can do most things for windows 8 itself (except apps and desktop programs) with just a keyboard.

tp2215 said:
...
One small other "rant" make sure you use a uxtheme patcher and a visual style... whose idea at Microsoft was it to use black text in the window border but white text on the taskbar?
In my opinion that gives me the best of all worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you recommend a uxtheme? You use it to restore some Windows 7 font/UI right? Do you restore glass/Aero? I've been using Start8 which I like a lot, but for the other features they really want you to pay at several gates...in the end, making Win8 look a bit more like Win 7 costs a small fortune with them.
edit - I just spotted the popular early mod of aero in 8 has come out of beta and is still free: http://glass8.berlios.de/
This update is really interesting...it's Aero Glass within a Win 8 framework...it's a curious UI mix.

SharpnShiny said:
Could you recommend a uxtheme? You use it to restore some Windows 7 font/UI right? Do you restore glass/Aero? I've been using Start8 which I like a lot, but for the other features they really want you to pay at several gates...in the end, making Win8 look a bit more like Win 7 costs a small fortune with them.
edit - I just spotted the popular early mod of aero in 8 has come out of beta and is still free: http://glass8.berlios.de/
This update is really interesting...it's Aero Glass within a Win 8 framework...it's a curious UI mix. *pets cat and ponders*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For some great uxtheme just search around deviantart here is a good place to start http://www.deviantart.com/customization/skins/. There are lots of them scattered around that, if anything, will restore the look back to Windows 7. Most of them have versions that will also tie right into the aero mod that you mentioned. One word of advice though from expereince, if the pc wants to update, switch back to default style before restarting. Microsoft released several updates that seem to "softbrick' your pc if the patch is installed. It will just boot with a black screen and the only way to repair would be to refresh or system restore.

hakcenter said:
Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just for the record, the keyboard is always faster than the mouse.

mcosmin222 said:
Just for the record, the keyboard is always faster than the mouse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not when you count time from shifting your hands from the mouse to the keyboard.
Like browsing the web, then you wanted to open up Photoshop well now your up crap Creek cause you can't just have a simple shortcut on the ready.
Anyone defending the missing power user feature of having a central location for common tasks is just sailing their boat to no where. Especially when you look at the fact the guy that pressed for 8 was fired... Yawn.
Watch the next windows brings it back then all you crazy dudes won't find a single utility to remove the menu cause it's just stupidity at it's finest.

Windows Phone 8.1

So I've been inactive for a little while (partially because there wasn't really much happening that affected me). But I thought now would be a good time to talk about Windows Phone 8.1 and what it will bring (even though we're mostly speculating). The particularly interesting part to me is what will happen to phones such as mine (Ativ S Neo) now that Microsoft is buying out Nokia.
So here are my predictions (some of them are totally random):
1. Microsoft will make launching the camera faster by modeling it after Windows 8.1 (swipe down on lockscreen) however this could be replaced with a notification center, but either way, it will be used.
2. The notification icons can be touched as you're swiping the lockscreen away to launch the respective app. This is a more dubious prediction, but would be nice.
3. Nokia apps could be brought into the fold (integrated fully into Windows Phone). This is more likely to come with a GDR2 update or such since 8.1 is coming out right after the deal closes. It's also a hopeful prediction, but Microsoft had better make it happen.
4. Bigger square tiles. This is something I'm pretty confident about, and would love to see for things like Pictures and People apps, and would be awesome to see what developers do with them.
5. Group messaging. If they don't do this, I swear....
6. Notification center. This is of course going to happen, but what I'd love to see is not swiping down from the top, but perhaps swiping in from the left-hand side, and when you're on the Start screen, it would work beautifully with having the app drawer on the right (left notifications, middle Start, right apps).
7. Also, I'm guessing they'll integrate new app APIs in an effort to get ready for the move to one Windows store. This would also include APIs for Cortana integration, which I'll discuss in a minute.
8. Internet Explorer 11/sync with Windows 8.1. IE 11 is sorta given, but sync is one of those things they'd better do, because it would make my Windows experience even more seamless, and I love the way it happens on Windows 8.1 with multiple computers.
9. Cortana. This is something I can't wait for, and I just hope she integrates REALLY deeply into the Windows ecosystem, and eventually Xbox and Windows 8. First off, I realize Cortana is a codename, but I hope they let you name him/her. This way I can keep Cortana. It would also be sweet if you could make an avatar for her! For this section I'll be making sub-points.
I. However, here's what Cortana should be able to do: cue up music based on what she knows you want to listen to. This way when I'm biking to work, she can cue up some great Imagine Dragons radio for me. Or when I'm biking back I can just ask her to play music and she'll cue up some rap for me.
II. I should be able to talk to her in a natural way, instead of using keywords ("let my girlfriend know where I'm at" and Cortana says "I'm leaving work" or sends a map of where I am).
III. I also really hope the voice sounds natural and works offline. Working offline is probably the number one thing besides accuracy that I want. IV. Cortana shouldn't just be there when I ask her though, she should be ready before I ask. When my girlfriend texts and asks where I am, Cortana should say "your girlfriend wants to know where you are, should I tell her you're leaving work?". Or if I'm looking for a place to eat, Cortana should know from my texts that I'm going out with my girlfriend for a nice evening in San Diego and recommend somewhere based on the kind of food I like and the budget I work with, before I ask her. She should turn herself on before I go out the door and say "here's a place to eat at tonight".
V. Of course this wouldn't be an instant thing. She'd learn you over time, and change as your preferences change.
VI. She should also be situation-aware. For example, if someone from work sends me an email and I ask Cortana to reply, she should draft it in appropriate business language. When I send a Facebook message, it should include appropriate smileys and lingo.
VII. Cortana should be part of the camera experience. If I pull out my phone to take a picture on the beach with my girlfriend, it should already be on the camera app before I unlock (I don't press the camera button, just turn the screen on.) and be able to take pictures when I give my phone to someone else on the beach without them pressing a button. It would be even crazier if I could prop my phone up and Cortana can tell someone to move left or right to get better in the picture.
VIII. She should recognize me. When I speak, she should know by my voice that it's me, or even discretely use the camera now and then to make sure it's me and if not lock someone out.
Anyways, those are my insane Cortana expectations, and they also include many other system features.
10. All-in-one Windows integration, not just sync. Obviously this would be later in the year, with GDR2 or 3 and another Windows 8 update. However, this is when I'm playing music on my phone and open my computer, then the computer automatically starts playing it. I move into my living room and my Xbox turns on and starts playing the music. This wouldn't be just music, but that's an example of what I want to see.
So yeah, my expectations are insane, but I'm guessing I've hit a couple things right.(especially with Cortana, though she's the thing that I set my expectations most ridiculously high on ha). But what do you think? How much of this will be a reality? Is there something I've missed?
And Microsoft, if you're reading this, just do it. Make Cortana blow everything out of the water. :good:

Group messaging has been built into Windows Phone since WP7 (maybe it was Mango, but I think it was actually a release feature...). If your phone doesn't "support" it, that's a problem with your carrier, not the OS or the hardware. (I'm not entirely clear why anybody would use Sprint, honestly; at least AT&T and Verizon have the advantage of network coverage).
I like the notification center ideas. Swipe (pivot) from left could be useful on both the Start screen (opposite of the app list) and on the lock screen (opposite of Kid's Corner), quite possibly.
IE11 is already part of GDR3, I believe... probably IE12 by the time WP8.1 comes out.
New APIs are much needed. I reallllly hope they move towards less lockdown (make it more RT-like, at a minimum, with file pickers and whatnot). Well, or let us bypass this lockdown BS altogether...
Your "Windows integration" thing is kind of weird, for a few reasons. First of all, your phone can already do this (again, this applies all the way back to WP7) by using Bluetooth. I can play music through my laptop, control it through my laptop, etc. automatically; if my desktop had BT it could do the same. Second, the thing that I really want to see with regard to Windows integration is the ability to work like a Windows machine instead of some special second-class-citizen "device". Things like Homegroup support, ideally domain-joining support (not likely, but it would be really nice to be able to sign my phone into the work network and access internal resources seamlessly; this *may* come as part of the VPN functionality), printing support (not sure if WP8 currently supports printing at all, although it can "see" BT printers), Favorites/documents/settings (where applicable) sync (some of this is coming via Skydrive integration, but it *should* be at least as good as Win8.0 managed), solid built-in Remote Desktop support, and that kind of stuff.

GoodDayToDie said:
Group messaging has been built into Windows Phone since WP7 (maybe it was Mango, but I think it was actually a release feature...). If your phone doesn't "support" it, that's a problem with your carrier, not the OS or the hardware. (I'm not entirely clear why anybody would use Sprint, honestly; at least AT&T and Verizon have the advantage of network coverage).
I like the notification center ideas. Swipe (pivot) from left could be useful on both the Start screen (opposite of the app list) and on the lock screen (opposite of Kid's Corner), quite possibly.
IE11 is already part of GDR3, I believe... probably IE12 by the time WP8.1 comes out.
New APIs are much needed. I reallllly hope they move towards less lockdown (make it more RT-like, at a minimum, with file pickers and whatnot). Well, or let us bypass this lockdown BS altogether...
Your "Windows integration" thing is kind of weird, for a few reasons. First of all, your phone can already do this (again, this applies all the way back to WP7) by using Bluetooth. I can play music through my laptop, control it through my laptop, etc. automatically; if my desktop had BT it could do the same. Second, the thing that I really want to see with regard to Windows integration is the ability to work like a Windows machine instead of some special second-class-citizen "device". Things like Homegroup support, ideally domain-joining support (not likely, but it would be really nice to be able to sign my phone into the work network and access internal resources seamlessly; this *may* come as part of the VPN functionality), printing support (not sure if WP8 currently supports printing at all, although it can "see" BT printers), Favorites/documents/settings (where applicable) sync (some of this is coming via Skydrive integration, but it *should* be at least as good as Win8.0 managed), solid built-in Remote Desktop support, and that kind of stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately Group messaging got dropped from Windows Phone on Verizon and Sprint from 7 to 8... I have no idea why.And with the music, I have desktop speakers hooked up to my laptop most of the time, but yeah, that was more a want than a prediction. And I have GDR3 and I don't believe it is an updated IE (I never saw something about that... But I could be wrong. Never noticed any improvements though) and yeah, I think you're very right on the VPN and domain stuff, they'll want to get businesses to want these for employees, and advertising it as working with existing infrastructure would be HUGE.

C-Lang said:
Unfortunately Group messaging got dropped from Windows Phone on Verizon and Sprint from 7 to 8... I have no idea why.And with the music, I have desktop speakers hooked up to my laptop most of the time, but yeah, that was more a want than a prediction. And I have GDR3 and I don't believe it is an updated IE (I never saw something about that... But I could be wrong. Never noticed any improvements though) and yeah, I think you're very right on the VPN and domain stuff, they'll want to get businesses to want these for employees, and advertising it as working with existing infrastructure would be HUGE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
group messaging was added again on the 928 since gdr2 launched a while ago. I'm not sure if its been corrected with any of the others yet.
On top of that, I'm not all sure what MS has done between GDR3 preview and GDR3 RTM. (NOTE: it auto suggests the word preview after typing GDR3.)
I don't think that way can bet on anything yet for the 8.1 update... MS still is battling uphill, when it comes to a seamless integration with the "one windows experience".
My beef still:
Why wasn't Xbox video integrated at launch and why is MS touting finally as "coming soon" by word from Nokia, not MS announcing the news?
Why isn't MS leaving an option to "unlock" our phones beyond pushing development apps? There is still a quite a large amount of functionality that's missing from WP that's in your good old WM6. I can understand that started from scratch after seeing that the T-Mobile Sidekick UI worked well, while the Kin and the kin 2 for that matter was a flop.
I also have to agree wit @GoodDayToDie about some of the Domain features,, but I'd one up by adding DirectAccess support, after all MS hates being limited to VPNs.
I also recall seeing drivers inside the registry for printing while thinking,
What would I want to print directly from my phone? Photos?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just not quite sure what Windows Phone's future is yet...
Essentially, I didn't find anything interesting coming out of Abu Dhabi.
Sent from my RM-860 using Tapatalk

Just another wishlist, that wont happend.
You should be more realistic and read more infos about, what microsoft is going to do with there OS. A wishlist, what u would like to have and how they should done it, is just a wishlist that never will be happend.

dergutehirte said:
Just another wishlist, that wont happend.
You should be more realistic and read more infos about, what microsoft is going to do with there OS. A wishlist, what u would like to have and how they should done it, is just a wishlist that never will be happend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trust me, I've read everything there is to read and included it in my list. I included many realistic expectations, but all threw in a bunch of random stuff that could happen, whether its in the next update or not. Have you even read about Cortana? She's kind of what I described, albeit probably not THAT smart, but that's Microsoft's goal sort of from what we currently know. Now go do some reading before you speak up next time.
According to what has leaked so far, I still see 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, some of 9, and something like 10 as extremely realistic. Sure not everything will happen that way, but from Microsoft's goals and my extensive use of Windows 8/8.1 on multiple laptops/Surface and Surface 2 and my use of WP from WP 7.1 on and my Xbox and what I've seen of the Xbox One (which I've preordered, and watched every video there is to watch) this all could very well happen, although some of it will no doubt be an update or so away.
And as for my Cortana predictions, here's a great article to sum up what I've said and how it lines up with facts as we know them (Microsoft's goals and statements, leaks etc.) and it lines up PRETTY DARN WELL. And I quote Steve Ballmer "deeply personalized, based on the advanced, almost magical, intelligence in our cloud that learns more and more over time about people and the world". I don't know about you, but my predictions sound pretty reasonable to me.

This is not a "preview" in the sense of a "beta". It is, in fact, the RTM build... but in the proper sense of RTM (Release To Manufacturing) where "Manufacturing" here means the phone OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers). The OEMs may further customize things at this point, adding additional packages to the update. It then goes to the mobile operators, why may make yet more tweaks (usually, in my experience, this involves removing some stuff, like the ability to lock the phone to 3G only on AT&T, for example, but they also add their own ringtones and boot screens and similar cruft).
However, the bits from Microsoft are final and released. Those are not changing. I'm sure MS runs pre-release programs (betas) internally, and they had a public beta program for Mango (WP7.5), but it appears that no part of WP8 had any such external program.

1. Microsoft will make launching the camera faster by modeling it after Windows 8.1 (swipe down on lockscreen) however this could be replaced with a notification center, but either way, it will be used.
No yet. Only as second option.
2. The notification icons can be touched as you're swiping the lockscreen away to launch the respective app. This is a more dubious prediction, but would be nice.
Already has this since GDR2 as I know. You can tap on it to open that app from lock screen, swipe notification message in top from left to right side, to hide it.
3. Nokia apps could be brought into the fold (integrated fully into Windows Phone). This is more likely to come with a GDR2 update or such since 8.1 is coming out right after the deal closes. It's also a hopeful prediction, but Microsoft had better make it happen.
No. Nokia wants to be independent and leader. So if all OEM apps will be available for all other WP devices, than Nokia gonna lost part of market share.
4. Bigger square tiles. This is something I'm pretty confident about, and would love to see for things like Pictures and People apps, and would be awesome to see what developers do with them.
Developers, developers, developers only can do with own apps to make similar as People, Pictures. Go ahead.
5. Group messaging. If they don't do this, I swear....
What you mean Group Messaging? SMS or Social Messaging (Twitter/Facebook/Lync/Outlook?) Will be.
6. Notification center. This is of course going to happen, but what I'd love to see is not swiping down from the top, but perhaps swiping in from the left-hand side, and when you're on the Start screen, it would work beautifully with having the app drawer on the right (left notifications, middle Start, right apps).
-------- No comments --------
7. Also, I'm guessing they'll integrate new app APIs in an effort to get ready for the move to one Windows store. This would also include APIs for Cortana integration, which I'll discuss in a minute.
-------- No comments --------
8. Internet Explorer 11/sync with Windows 8.1. IE 11 is sorta given, but sync is one of those things they'd better do, because it would make my Windows experience even more seamless, and I love the way it happens on Windows 8.1 with multiple computers.
Will be. This calling ecosystem.
9. Cortana. This is something I can't wait for, and I just hope she integrates REALLY deeply into the Windows ecosystem, and eventually Xbox and Windows 8. First off, I realize Cortana is a codename, but I hope they let you name him/her. This way I can keep Cortana. It would also be sweet if you could make an avatar for her! For this section I'll be making sub-points.
I. However, here's what Cortana should be able to do: cue up music based on what she knows you want to listen to. This way when I'm biking to work, she can cue up some great Imagine Dragons radio for me. Or when I'm biking back I can just ask her to play music and she'll cue up some rap for me.
II. I should be able to talk to her in a natural way, instead of using keywords ("let my girlfriend know where I'm at" and Cortana says "I'm leaving work" or sends a map of where I am).
III. I also really hope the voice sounds natural and works offline. Working offline is probably the number one thing besides accuracy that I want. IV. Cortana shouldn't just be there when I ask her though, she should be ready before I ask. When my girlfriend texts and asks where I am, Cortana should say "your girlfriend wants to know where you are, should I tell her you're leaving work?". Or if I'm looking for a place to eat, Cortana should know from my texts that I'm going out with my girlfriend for a nice evening in San Diego and recommend somewhere based on the kind of food I like and the budget I work with, before I ask her. She should turn herself on before I go out the door and say "here's a place to eat at tonight".
V. Of course this wouldn't be an instant thing. She'd learn you over time, and change as your preferences change.
VI. She should also be situation-aware. For example, if someone from work sends me an email and I ask Cortana to reply, she should draft it in appropriate business language. When I send a Facebook message, it should include appropriate smileys and lingo.
VII. Cortana should be part of the camera experience. If I pull out my phone to take a picture on the beach with my girlfriend, it should already be on the camera app before I unlock (I don't press the camera button, just turn the screen on.) and be able to take pictures when I give my phone to someone else on the beach without them pressing a button. It would be even crazier if I could prop my phone up and Cortana can tell someone to move left or right to get better in the picture.
VIII. She should recognize me. When I speak, she should know by my voice that it's me, or even discretely use the camera now and then to make sure it's me and if not lock someone out.
Too much.................
Anyways, those are my insane Cortana expectations, and they also include many other system features.
10. All-in-one Windows integration, not just sync. Obviously this would be later in the year, with GDR2 or 3 and another Windows 8 update. However, this is when I'm playing music on my phone and open my computer, then the computer automatically starts playing it. I move into my living room and my Xbox turns on and starts playing the music. This wouldn't be just music, but that's an example of what I want to see.
Read my answer of question 8.

Notification icons != notification toasts. The ability to tap on Toasts to open the app has existed since well before WP8.

Windows 10 Experience

So now that people are upgrading to the release of Win 10, I'm curious about your experience.
For me, it's a smooth OS with a lot of things I need to get used to but I have made some discoveries.
The task bar - on my main monitor won't auto hide. A search tells me this has been a bug for the last few technical releases. Oddly enough, all of a sudden, a few minutes ago, it started to work but I assume this will stop in the next reboot.
The Mail App totally sucks. No number of new emails in each account when you click on accounts. No view for all accounts. No using mouse/shift to select multiple messages. No Check boxes to select all messages in any folder. New incoming messages show up in the action center, only, but you have to open it to see them. Not getting desktop notifications.
Cortana looks like it could be good but setup has been a pain since for some reason my Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD cam can barely hear my voice, even with level up all the way.
Camera App - totally doesn't open at all. I had to d/l a third party app which I don't like.
Settings page is tough to find things like Advanced Settings. That's WAS, oddly, in System/About but now it;s gone and replaced by other shortcuts. so setting the paging file size manually, etc is just gone for now.
Edge is the best browser yet by MS, but it's not going to get me to stop using Chrome
What are everyone else's thoughts so far?

It's nearly perfect. Drivers catched up, not a single incompatible program, major performance boost in games after installing the latest Nvidia driver. The only bug I've seen so far - Action Center's tray icon is lit on on system startup even though it's empty.
I'm recommending it to everyone I know, I've already installed it on 3 PCs I have access to. It's just 10/10.

Upgrade??
First, so far I like Windows 10 a whole lot better than Windows 8.1, but the upgrade has been a nightmare.
The upgrade on my AlienWare (Dell) laptop went smooth. No problems at all. The upgrade for my Surface Pro 3 (Microsoft) has been anything but smooth. Microsoft's own computer did not upgrade right. First, it installed Windows 10 Home even though the Windows 8.1 that was on it was the Pro version. It also wiped out all of my installed programs and apps. I didn't lose any data but the applications will all have to be reinstalled.

Mine won't even install on my Asus Transformer. Says Key cannot be verified....

If you are still having problems and difficulties upgrading your PC to windows 10, kindly follow this post on my website. A few clean up steps got my Dell system to upgrade to Windows 10 http://www.selftechgenius.com/how-to-geek-2/how-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-for-free/

OK, so here's a big one. I use my 500GB D:\ drive to store documents, downloads, pictures and videos by default. I tried to save a picture off the web to the pictures folder and got access denied error.
So I looked properties, security and noticed 2 things. 1, the folder was marked as read only and 2, there was and Unknown User account. I deleted that account, and changed the properties on both C: and D: drives and that fixed it but you should all go check to see if you have the same thing.
I'm thinking I'm going to get a 1 TB HDD backup to put all my personal things on, format both drives, then do a clean install. I've always hated doing OS upgrades on top of older releases and the few bugs I have, like the camera app not working or the VIA HD Deck app not opening are the reason why. I just have to wait for all my hardware devices to release Win 10 drivers

I wasn't a fan of Windows 10. Immediately after "upgrading" the track pad on my laptop didn't work properly anymore. Based on my research it's a driver issue with no solution until the driver is updated. Who knows when that will be.... I use my laptop a lot for school and can't afford to wait.
Microsoft also removed basic tools like paint with no good replacements in the app store. I also didn't like how it pretty much turned my laptop into a phone by calling the Control Panel "settings" and having an app store and stupid stuff like that. I went back to Windows 7 after less than an hour on Windows 10 and couldn't be happier.
I did like the UI, though. It kinda reminded me of the material design of Android 5.x with the flat colors and stuff.

I am very happy with win 10, got it on my Desktop and my Tablet and even though i had some touchscreen issues in the beginning it works well now on both devices

I did a clean install on my laptop, as opposed to the update on my desktop, and it's better. Cortana works right, etc.
My ONLY beef is the mail app sucks

I upgraded my Lenovo to Windows 10 with the media creation tool but after a week or so decided to do a clean install to get rid of the terrible bloat(though most of it I removed when I got the laptop).
I downloaded the ISO and CLEARLY remember choosing 64bit Home Single Language. But after I diakpart the drive and reinstall the OS I realize that I have a 32 bit version installed.
And my 15GB limit of "high" speed broadband is exhausted and I CANNOT download a 4 gig file on a 512 Kbps connection.
I'm stuck till next month or till my friend gives me the 64 bit ISO.
But its completely my fault, so guys BEWARE, don't make stupid mistakes!!!!
But I like the OS(mostly). After disabling Microsoft's sneaky data collection and automatic updates its all good. Don't forget to disable live tiles cause they hog bandwidth too.
But boot speed is faster, performance is better and multiple desktops and snapping is great!
[Moto E 2nd Gen 3G running CyanogenMod 12.1]

I don't like Windows 10 at all. It sucks on Tablet(Touch) and PC/Laptop. With StartIsBack++ you can fix Win10 a bit for mouse/keyboard, but the UI is still cluttered and ugly as hell.

Really?? I don;t have that problem at all, especially when doing a clean install

My upgrade went well.. But afterwards it was a nightmare. It took my DAYS and about 14 reboots just to get it unfrozen long enough to open task manager with ctrl+alt+delete. Then, suddenly, after a reboot, it worked. It is now even faster than 8.1 (although I sometimes need to use task manager to speed it up). All of my programs and files work.. Except for cam studio which didn't work on 8.1 either. [emoji13]
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I totally agree with Mail app sucks. I sent some emails but sent items folder is still empty, not syncing.. And honestly, I don't like the settings app because eventually it forwards you to the control panel for lots of settings. So what's the meaning of this setting app, right?

kerimka said:
I totally agree with Mail app sucks. I sent some emails but sent items folder is still empty, not syncing.. And honestly, I don't like the settings app because eventually it forwards you to the control panel for lots of settings. So what's the meaning of this setting app, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. I just pinned Control Panel to Start so i can get right to it

I have Windows 10 pro. Whenever I try to connect to my pc using various remote desktop apps on my android, it gets connected for a moment and then it shows error message that someone else is connected to your pc please try later.
Any suggestions?
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I did a fresh install, I like it, just that there's no direct access to the computer from the start bar, I managed to pin 'this pc' to it, but It wasn't good enough.
I added the start menu back from Stardock Start10.

fresh w10pro install here on an hp elitebook. no issues at all.

On Acer fresh update, no problems

I updated my Toshiba Satellite to Windows 10 and it runs smooth. There's only an annoying thing. Sometimes when I turn on the PC and log in it says that Cortana and Start Menu aren't working, so I must have to turn off and to solve this problem temporarily I have to press Shift while it turns on. But some days after it happens again.