Database Users

Has anyone considered writing a SCREEN SHOT app that doesn't require root?

There are zero in the Marketplace.
Is there some kind of technical limitation of Android that prevents this most rudimentary of features of a computing device with a screen? I just don't get it at all. It can't be that nobody has asked for one. So there must be a limitation of Android that prevents a screenshot from being generated?
REQUEST: Can anyone write an app that solves this? I think there were would be great demand.

I think if it was possible, there would be one by now. Most likely it's not.

It can't be that nobody has asked for one. So there must be a limitation of Android that prevents a screenshot from...
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I think you answered your own question; )
In order to take a screen print, data from the video RAM must be extracted. root access is required for this.
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

Yeah, you can pretty much rule out anything that requires direct access to hardware. Hardware access is limited to what is accessible via APIs. By the look of it, that does not include access to the video RAM. There are many other things (flashlight for example) which, although they seem simple, are not included in the standard APIs and therefore are not possible without root access to the device.

bcmobile said:
Yeah, you can pretty much rule out anything that requires direct access to hardware. Hardware access is limited to what is accessible via APIs. By the look of it, that does not include access to the video RAM. There are many other things (flashlight for example) which, although they seem simple, are not included in the standard APIs and therefore are not possible without root access to the device.
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Thank you. I'm not a developer so I didn't know these limitations existed. This OS has developed so fast -- less than 2 years old... and yet, I would have thought this kind of thing would have been handled long ago, just from end-user expectation: "I can print-screen" or screen grab on my full size computer, so i probably can screen grab from my hand held computer.
But re flashlight -- maybe there is one specific function/app you are referring to, but on my Hero, unrooted, thru the Market, i must have downloaded and tried about 6 different flashlights, all with basic function of using the white light of the screen as a light source... some that enabled you to change the color of the screen to blue, red, etc... One even has this cop-car alternating red-blue flashing light display.
I am probably misunderstanding you though.
I think ultimately I am just surprised certain things are not further along -- and it's a stark contrast to a thread I was just visiting way across the other side of the XDA forums universe -- called WP7 - epic fail --- in which many die hard WM developers lament the passing of an OS that gave amazing levels of access to devs, yet the UI of the OS itself was beyond dated, it was dysfunctional and impractical in today's world.
It's just interesting to read the perspectives of developers touting Symbian as the most open OS and most efficient (less battery drain) -- and last I knew I thought it was being killed off. Wrong again.
I'm extremely happy with Android -- but then there are these few blindspots where I have to say -- wow -- i could do THAT 5 years ago on my old T-Mobile MDA WM 5x phone ... like 100%-reliable voicetags for phone calling contacts, opening apps etc, vs speech recognition, ... like the abilities the resistive screen gave me in drawing elaborate sketch at a meeting -- or my being able the take really quick notes with -- yes -- a stylus -- not an alltogether stupid idea -- and have a 90% success rate at character recognition and conversion to text ... the precision of controlling a color slider bar on a resistive screen --- i understand that's not OS but screen properties -- but I am just collectively observing that while I absolutely loved my HERO, and now am discovering my DESIRE, there are still some very basic things I can't do with allegedly the best smartphone in the marketplace.
I'm very agnostic about hardware and software, never been a fanboy -- I'm a usability designer... so functionality rules, end users rule. And basic things like this -- a screenshot -- they may be very explainable by devs... And my question may sound like it's very annoying to some, and I'm just a dumb **** (not you, you were respectful), but I think, as a end user advocate, it's pretty stupid -- and seems senseless to me that this phone can do 1001 backflips with video, and yet it can't let me "record" what I see on my screen. I get it that it's not yet released by Google, but they're who I'm calling stupid for not solving something so elementary by now.
I have every right to say this without any android architecture knowledge.

I can see your point, but in all modern operating systems, there is no direct hardware control, for any purpose, no matter how benevolent the purpose might be.
This is done only through api programming and libraries of calls, which are also restricted most of the time.
The reason is simple and can be summarized to one word, security.
As phones are becoming more and more capable of doing sensitive activities like online banking transactions and on top of that hold every personal info one has,
security will become an even greater concern.
Windows so far, have been the least secure platform for every day use to date. This is also true for windows mobile.
I know it looks like you are getting less usability than you did, but at least in this case its not just to inflate someone's wallet with extra money, through proprietorial lock down of services and apis, which would be "opened" at a later date for some more cash.
I m sure that in no time we ll be seeing full blown firewalls and antivirus suites for superphones like the desire.
All it will take is a few more viruses-trojans targeting mobile platforms like jailbroken iphones or rooted android devices.

I guess the same limitations are to be blamed for not having a proper voice recorder, i.e. one that can record both parts of a phone conversation.

reason you arent getting a non root screenshot app(if memory serves correctly):
the screenshot app takes a dump of the display file in /dev/ and then uses image processing to output a jpg/png/whatever. At the momment we can see the contents of /dev/ with (adb shell ls /dev/) but any attempt to read/write/copy (adb pull /dev/lightsensor ./lightsensor)(yes i know that is the light sensor but couldnt remember what the display file was called) anything is met with a "permission denied".

Multiple metro splitting / customizable metro splitting

I didn't find any topic about this. Excuse me if a topic already exists.
Name it as you want, but windows 8 allow us to split the screen and see two metro apps at the same time. I miss the windows' windows ( windows without windows is quite stupid for me ), but I like metro. Is there any way to split the screen many times, horizontally and with different ratios? ( not only 80:20 )
Many thanks.
Inviato dal mio HTC Desire con Tapatalk 2

It's been asked before, but nothing found. The official reason is that using a fixed-width sidebar mode allows developers to optimize their app interfaces for the width of that sidebar, but it would be nice to, for example, have two apps side-by-side in portrait mode on a 1920x1080 monitor (giving about 950x1080 each). I'm sure if such ahack is found, it'll be posted here...

GoodDayToDie said:
It's been asked before, but nothing found. The official reason is that using a fixed-width sidebar mode allows developers to optimize their app interfaces for the width of that sidebar, but it would be nice to, for example, have two apps side-by-side in portrait mode on a 1920x1080 monitor (giving about 950x1080 each). I'm sure if such ahack is found, it'll be posted here...
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Right, many thanks for answering. I'll pantientiently wait. So sorry for useless topic.
Optimization or not, in Win7 I could have A LOT of windows on the screen at the same time. Falling back to 2 in the new version is very disappointing. Samsung smartphones have visual multitasking and my 1920x1080 PC can't have more than two windows? If it wasn't for performances of Win8, I would be on Win7 right now.

Win8 is capable of having an arbitrary number of windows open at once... I get almost no use out of the Metro apps and just do everything on the desktop.

GoodDayToDie said:
Win8 is capable of having an arbitrary number of windows open at once... I get almost no use out of the Metro apps and just do everything on the desktop.
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Yep, desktop is just like win7 desktop, so you can get unlimited windows. But Metro apps are quite integrated with everything and living without them is hard. And I can't see a youtube video while writing a document.

You can't? Word and a browser pointing at YouTube works fine for me...
Seriously, aside from mail (which I only use because it'll connect from outside work's firewall) and Skype (which works great snapped to one side), the only "Metro" apps I use are games (which I would have full-screened anyhow). The music, pictures, and messenger apps are crap. I manage my calendar from the phone and only "use" it on the PC to see and dismiss notifications. I prefer the desktop control panel and OneNote. The built-in PDF reader app is... not great, so I have Foxit. Metro IE is worthless next to the desktop version. Metro remote desktop is OK, but the desktop version is powerful and familiar. Start and the Store are both "metro" but aren't really apps in the usual sense. SSH and such are available on the desktop (I use Interix).
If anything, I'd say Metro apps are the opposite of "integrated with everything". They can't change system settings, and often can't even check them. They have very limited ability to talk to other programs, whereas almost everything on the desktop supports drag&drop, for example. They can't do anything requiring high privileges. They're terrible for browsing the filesystem. They suck for multitasking in general. They can't (officially) launch other programs. They might not be an evolutionary dead end, but they aren't an evolution I'm happy to see. Give me sandboxes, and maybe even a store, but let *me* control the sandbox and let me apply them to desktop software. Give me synced app state, but let everything use it not just the stuff from your store. Give me Vista's Windows Mail instead of this crap. Touch-friendly is great, but even on my Surface I don't so much except games with touch; give me traditional UIs too.

Cobwebs growing on Windows phone 8 blogs and forums

At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.

Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!

Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine

DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
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Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.

sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
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Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back

^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way

Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.

People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow

nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
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Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.

The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.

Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.

I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
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Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
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Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.

The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!

Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.

I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?

DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).

Is the new Windows 8 finally worth the transition from 7?

My biggest fear is that troubleshooting, and the hell hole of creating network drives, sharing permissions and all kinds of other thigns I had to do to stream my Media to my android and PS3 will just repeat itself or get worst if I upgrade.
What are the general experiences with media and directory sharing on Windows 8 vs Windows 7? Can you drop all of Microsoft's security mechanisms as a whole?

hm
write a simple script for your network file sharing, are you doing an upgrade or going from scratch?

buffalosolja42 said:
write a simple script for your network file sharing, are you doing an upgrade or going from scratch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unsure about that. I would like to from scratch since if I do make the move to Windows 8 I will probably load it onto an SSD and have two HDDs for storage

Wrong forum, mate. This is Windows Phone 8. The Windows 8 forum is over there. Please ask a moderator to move this thread.

I was shocked with how stable Windows 7 is, it very rarely freezes or reboots etc.
I can't believe how often Windows 8 freezes, reboots, fails to start, can't diagnose startup problems or if it does, I do it 3 times and somehow it finds a problem on the third time, why is that?
I use exactly the same programs on each OS. I have used 8 preview, 8 and now 8.1 each one is unstable and creates problems. For a desktop user, it's a nightmare.

SharpnShiny said:
I was shocked with how stable Windows 7 is, it very rarely freezes or reboots etc.
I can't believe how often Windows 8 freezes, reboots, fails to start, can't diagnose startup problems or if it does, I do it 3 times and somehow it finds a problem on the third time, why is that?
I use exactly the same programs on each OS. I have used 8 preview, 8 and now 8.1 each one is unstable and creates problems. For a desktop user, it's a nightmare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been running windows 8 on my daily use machine since the week it launched, not once has it frozen, rebooted or failed to boot. Nor have I heard of such prolific issues from anyone else

Honestly I threw 8.1 preview on one of two new boxes at home, 7 Ultimate on the other.
Both with SSD caching and boot times are similar. Performance also seems similar.
I got one copy of 8 for one system and one for the other.
Metro was made for touch screens (and is great with one) - but the box with 8 will never have it.
So I have it boot straight to desktop and I'll live on the desktop except for occasionally finding an app.
(Think I might look at that Pokki or other start menu alternatives..)

If you have a touch screen go 8. If you don't stick with 7...

According to me it is not up to the mark...... 7 is better may be future updates may change my attitude...
Sent from my Xperia U using xda app-developers app

I cannot find *one* thing superior in windows 7 to windows 8 bar the fact that driver signature enforcement is enabled (but can be disabled for a single boot if you need to install some drivers anyway, once installed an unsigned driver will work fine after a reboot).
Start button being absent like everyone complains about. Who seriously uses the start button? All it does is let you launch programs or shut the PC down. Well I can launch programs just fine from desktop (albeit I like a clean desktop so don't), task bar, start screen or via search. Search is easy to get to, hit the windows key to go to the start screen, start typing and it immediately searches for that program. Shutdown, I never shut down from the start bar anyway and haven't in years, Control-Alt-Delete, or charms bar > settings > Power > Shutdown. Or windows key + D to go to desktop (or the button on the task bar, or some other way that I don't care to mention) and hit alt-F4 and windows will prompt for shutdown. Admin functions like control panel etc, hold the windows key and press X, a menu appears where the start button used to reside and lists most useful functions immediately, or you can move the mouse into the bottom left so the button to go to the start screen appears and then right click it.
Metro/Start as they prefer to call it that (seriously, they dropped the metro name way before full release) you look at for all of 2 seconds. I have a tile on it to go to desktop, but prefer to use windows key + D. Other than that, I actually use it with tiles for my favourite programs neatly pinned to it.
The start button is archaic. I saw someone saying that its impossible to throw away years of using a start button, I honestly wondered who was still using it, it was hideous. I got my first PC when I was 8, 2002 if you must know. At the age of 8 you learn to do things 1 way and usually stick to that. Yet I got windows 8 shortly after release (it was still during the discounted price period) and adapted to the lack of start bar within an hour, prior to that I was a heavy computer user. There we go, 11/12 years of heavy computer usage with the start bar being present and I throw it out within an hour. That was so hard.
Things change. Deal with it. The start button has been with us for how long and it is finally old enough that it needs putting to rest. Once upon a time we only used "primitive" command line entry systems (many still do), many of those users were angry when the modern desktop appeared, now its commonplace.

SixSixSevenSeven;45816830 ...
Start button being absent like everyone complains about. Who seriously uses the start button?[/QUOTE said:
Are you serious?
Given that Windows 8 has been dubbed the new Vista by many major publications, computer experts and power PC users, and that one of the biggest complaints among these users and businesses in surveys and that feedback from multiple major global PC manufacturers from consumers that the Start Menu was one of their key issues, given that the largest computer manufactuer by sales - Lenovo has intervened and preinstalled the free Start Menu replacement Pokki on all new Windows 8 machines, given the sheer amount of questions on this site about the Start Menu, give the huge number of sales of 3rd party software that replace the missing Start Menu (such as Start8) I would say many, many, many of us use the Start Button and the Start Menu.
Logical error #1 'If I have no use for this, then no one else does' ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Vista came out six years ago. Huge numbers of people *still* actually go into a menu structure to find their programs instead of just typing a few letters of the program name or description or executable file name, then hitting Enter.
The only conclusion I've been able to draw from this is that the majority of computer users are, in effect, idiots. This seems somewhat unlikely, but I'm pretty sure that recognizing the advantages in speed and convenience do not require above-average intelligence, yet people still fail to take advantage of it.
The Start screen is irrelevant to me, aside from its segregation of search results (fixed in 8.1 anyhow). The demand for Start Menu replacements says an awful lot about the intelligence of the Windows userbase, more than about the quality of the OS in general. With that said, I will grant that the Windows devs may have screwed up by failing to take into consideration just how dumb their target market is (at least with regard to computers).
Educating them - on a grand scale, the way MS did for the Start button in Win95 - might work. It would be interesting to see. The MS of today seems completely incapable of effective marketing and communication compared to the Microsoft of yesteryear, though.

In my opinion, Windows 8 is a great system for what is under the hood. The system and startup is dramatically feature and has much more safety features built in. The fact that Microsoft built in Microsoft Security Essentials means that you no longer have to deal with anti-virus and firewall stuff and since it is built in, it doesnt slow down your system anymore is a bonus. Also, the new backup features, performance tools and task manager are greatly improves and much better then recent versions.
As for the metro (or "modern") garbage, If you are using your PC as umm.. a PC it is really un-needed and unnecesary but is easy to get rid of using third party apps to get you back to the Windows 7 style desktop. I currently use Startisback which also makes other desktop changes to get rid of metro completely. If you want apps, installed Google Chrome and use Google's new desktop apps. This would also make it much easier for Android users as everything pretty much syncs with the phone.
One small other "rant" make sure you use a uxtheme patcher and a visual style... whose idea at Microsoft was it to use black text in the window border but white text on the taskbar?
In my opinion that gives me the best of all worlds.

SharpnShiny said:
Are you serious?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I am. I find the idea of the start button to just be obsolete and the new system to be FASTER for power users who can be bothered to get their heads out of their asses and adapt to change.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Actually I am. I find the idea of the start button to just be obsolete and the new system to be FASTER for power users who can be bothered to get their heads out of their asses and adapt to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete

hakcenter said:
Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't need the mouse to navigate windows 8 itself. See that lovely windows logo key, press it, takes you straight to the start screen where you can start typing. Want to get to the settings charm to shut down the pc, windows key + I, if you want you can even navigate that menu with the arrow keys but alternatively the icons are large so easy to hit with a nice imprecise high speed mouse movement. Windows key + X, opens a menu with things like control panel and device manager etc, in this list each item has a single character somewhere within the item name underscored, press thus character and it selects that menu option, Win + X and then C opens the command prompt for example. Very little mouse use is required, can do most things for windows 8 itself (except apps and desktop programs) with just a keyboard.

tp2215 said:
...
One small other "rant" make sure you use a uxtheme patcher and a visual style... whose idea at Microsoft was it to use black text in the window border but white text on the taskbar?
In my opinion that gives me the best of all worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you recommend a uxtheme? You use it to restore some Windows 7 font/UI right? Do you restore glass/Aero? I've been using Start8 which I like a lot, but for the other features they really want you to pay at several gates...in the end, making Win8 look a bit more like Win 7 costs a small fortune with them.
edit - I just spotted the popular early mod of aero in 8 has come out of beta and is still free: http://glass8.berlios.de/
This update is really interesting...it's Aero Glass within a Win 8 framework...it's a curious UI mix.

SharpnShiny said:
Could you recommend a uxtheme? You use it to restore some Windows 7 font/UI right? Do you restore glass/Aero? I've been using Start8 which I like a lot, but for the other features they really want you to pay at several gates...in the end, making Win8 look a bit more like Win 7 costs a small fortune with them.
edit - I just spotted the popular early mod of aero in 8 has come out of beta and is still free: http://glass8.berlios.de/
This update is really interesting...it's Aero Glass within a Win 8 framework...it's a curious UI mix. *pets cat and ponders*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For some great uxtheme just search around deviantart here is a good place to start http://www.deviantart.com/customization/skins/. There are lots of them scattered around that, if anything, will restore the look back to Windows 7. Most of them have versions that will also tie right into the aero mod that you mentioned. One word of advice though from expereince, if the pc wants to update, switch back to default style before restarting. Microsoft released several updates that seem to "softbrick' your pc if the patch is installed. It will just boot with a black screen and the only way to repair would be to refresh or system restore.

hakcenter said:
Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just for the record, the keyboard is always faster than the mouse.

mcosmin222 said:
Just for the record, the keyboard is always faster than the mouse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not when you count time from shifting your hands from the mouse to the keyboard.
Like browsing the web, then you wanted to open up Photoshop well now your up crap Creek cause you can't just have a simple shortcut on the ready.
Anyone defending the missing power user feature of having a central location for common tasks is just sailing their boat to no where. Especially when you look at the fact the guy that pressed for 8 was fired... Yawn.
Watch the next windows brings it back then all you crazy dudes won't find a single utility to remove the menu cause it's just stupidity at it's finest.

What do you Think of Technical Preview

This thread is to discuss the Windows 10 Technical Preview. Some things can be things that you like and don't like about it and bugs you have come across while testing it out. Here are some things I like about it.
Pros:
- Start menu has returned (yes I'm a laptop user and this is very welcoming for me)
- Seems to use slightly less RAM than Windows 8 did and a good bit less than 7 did.
- Most apps and programs seem to work without any problems or compatibility issues.
- You can now run modern apps from within the desktop which helped solve the two-faced issue that Windows 8 suffered from
- Multiple desktop support, something Linux and Mac have been able to do for years now.
- You can now create desktop shortcuts for modern apps
Cons:
- With there being practically no window boarder, some programs may look weird or render improperly
(example: there is a dark bar under the close button in Chrome EDIT: Chrome has been updated and doesn't do this anymore)
- Windows Explorer may freeze up and stop responding for about 30 seconds (it usually will work again when you close the Explorer window and reopen it)
- Charms work on the desktop, but not in modern apps (Charms are completely gone in build 9926, but it doesn't bother me)
- You can't remove or move the search or task view on the taskbar (I find them useful, but I know the shortcuts for them and they just add clutter to my taskbar EDIT: It's been fixed for a while I know, but I never updated the thread for it)
- Navigating the task view can be a bit cumbersome and your added desktops don't save.
Bugs I've come across:
- Textbox went away at the lockscreen, forcing me to restart
- Snap is currently broken. I can only snap one window but I can't snap another window while the first one is snapped (EDIT: This issue seemed to fix itself after restarting my computer. Snap works properly now after rebooting)
- Second display support is currently broken. When you plug a laptop or tablet to a screen wit ha higher resolution while the computer is either off or asleep, you will be greeted with either a black or blue screen, which also forces you to restart (fixed with October 2014 patch)
Workarounds:
These are temporary workarounds to fix various issues, bugs or annoyances in Technical Preview
- To be able to snap two windows, snap your first window and then minimize it. Open or select your second window and snap it to the other side. Bring back up your first window and both windows should be equally split across the screen.
- To use a second screen, tun on your computer and log on before connecting it to a second screen. Also, unplug the second screen before putting your computer to sleep, or else you will have the same problem

I'm a laptop user - is it still possible to keep the Windows 8 style start menu? I prefer that, better to make full use my 17" screen, rather than the imo annoying Windows 7 menu that opened up in a postage-stamp-sized window.
I had multiple desktops on my Amiga 19 years ago Though the downside is it's harder to do things like drag and drop, and more confusing keeping track of where things are. Can't say I've missed them.
I agree it's annoying if the search button can't be removed - similarly it's annoying they stuck the start button back in Windows 8.1. I know the shortcuts for keyboard, and the hotspot worked fine with a mouse/touchpad. Particularly annoying on my 10" Transformer Book where I have less screen space.

mdwh said:
I'm a laptop user - is it still possible to keep the Windows 8 style start menu? I prefer that, better to make full use my 17" screen, rather than the imo annoying Windows 7 menu that opened up in a postage-stamp-sized window.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the taskbar properties, you can customize the Windows 10 start menu settings. Here you can activate start menu as well kown of Windows 8 by turning off the Windows 10 start menu.

Tested it and removed it. Nothing to see if your not an developer or IT pro. And the fact that you can only use
it when your online, or at least use an online account just creeps me out. It looks like MS is going to close the
system up and demanding users to use cloud based systems. In other words, there getting even more on the
data mining bandwagon. And closing it up is hoping an new bread of developers will commit to Windows again.
Which isn't all that bad if the price and quality of the apps get way better then they are now.
Sure, they call it an tech preview, but they obviously already have the thing ready. The tech demo is buggy
by design that's for sure. And the start menu, if that is going to be the way it's going to be, is just silly and boring.
Must be an prank, surly they can come up with something more inspired. Using windowed apps on the desktop, an
sell point. seriously? Been doing that from Windows 8. Other features underlined for the time beeing all boring!
So move along, nothing to see for now.
All in all, if the preview is any indication, it will be nothing to write home about. For the average user.
Just the same old thing again. Except if the apps get consistent design! Not that oldskool Windows crap.
I have been using Windows from 1.0 or at least 30 years in my case. And its still flat and squared. Just saying...
XP endured for 10 years. Sure, it was an robust OS after win 9x, I loved it. Also loved 95-98 NT2000, so..
But was also glad to see Vista(..) after all those years working with the same old thing. Windows 7(what Vista should have been) was sweet but eventually quickly broken. 8 an experiment. 8.1.1 what 8 should have been to start with. Now that I am no longer in IT for some years, I hope that windows 10 will amuse me like Android or Mac does for Apple users. But respect individuality and freedom within the os. No forced net hookup and no extra data mining/spying.
With that out of the way, Windows 10 is either going to be an NT2000, Vista or a 8 seeing that 8.1.1 is just getting momentum and an base in the tablet segment.
What is there to think about Windows 10 Preview, if you are just an user, nothing. Just being an bore

Buggster said:
Tested it and removed it. Nothing to see if your not an developer or IT pro. And the fact that you can only use
it when your online, or at least use an online account just creeps me out. It looks like MS is going to close the
system up and demanding users to use cloud based systems. In other words, there getting even more on the
data mining bandwagon. And closing it up is hoping an new bread of developers will commit to Windows again.
Which isn't all that bad if the price and quality of the apps get way better then they are now.
Sure, they call it an tech preview, but they obviously already have the thing ready. The tech demo is buggy
by design that's for sure. And the start menu, if that is going to be the way it's going to be, is just silly and boring.
Must be an prank, surly they can come up with something more inspired. Using windowed apps on the desktop, an
sell point. seriously? Been doing that from Windows 8. Other features underlined for the time beeing all boring!
So move along, nothing to see for now.
All in all, if the preview is any indication, it will be nothing to write home about. For the average user.
Just the same old thing again. Except if the apps get consistent design! Not that oldskool Windows crap.
I have been using Windows from 1.0 or at least 30 years in my case. And its still flat and squared. Just saying...
XP endured for 10 years. Sure, it was an robust OS after win 9x, I loved it. Also loved 95-98 NT2000, so..
But was also glad to see Vista(..) after all those years working with the same old thing. Windows 7(what Vista should have been) was sweet but eventually quickly broken. 8 an experiment. 8.1.1 what 8 should have been to start with. Now that I am no longer in IT for some years, I hope that windows 10 will amuse me like Android or Mac does for Apple users. But respect individuality and freedom within the os. No forced net hookup and no extra data mining/spying.
With that out of the way, Windows 10 is either going to be an NT2000, Vista or a 8 seeing that 8.1.1 is just getting momentum and an base in the tablet segment.
What is there to think about Windows 10 Preview, if you are just an user, nothing. Just being an bore
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are missing the point.
This is a preview, microsoft needs to keep track who is actually testing it. Don't worry, there will be no such thing as a cloud OS. Plus, this version is just to test stability and stuff. Features will be added in time.

You are missing the point.
This is a preview, microsoft needs to keep track who is actually testing it. Don't worry, there will be no such thing as a cloud OS. Plus, this version is just to test stability and stuff. Features will be added in time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are missing the point here(no insult intended) Cloud is already integrated in the OS, every iteration a bit more. A lot of users already use there Outlook account
to log on daily and use the cloud drive. MS don't need to keep track in the way you mean with this preview. There are lots of background services already sending telemetry
to the servers, with unique id.
So the preview, as we all know it's an preview for testing, doesn't really need your explicit permission to use your system data. That's already part of the agreement of using this preview. It's "informally suggested" you test it as your daily driver. That's why they ask for an personal outlook account. In which you give explicit permission to use your private data and cover any legal issues. What else would be the point of testing it publicly without explicit user data and telemetry. I'm not slandering MS here. That's not my intention.
Again, there's not much to test for your normal user. The new feature aren't in there remember? Your not getting anything. It's you that's being tested

There could still be a local account be used... There is an option on account create
The search box on the task bar could be hidden with menu on right click

Windows 10 became laggy and slow after few days... Super UI, have to wait for final release.

Well I did come across a minor wifi issue when trying to connect to my college wifi. The issue I had was it had a hard time connecting to it at first (I was able to get it to connect after trying a few times). I think the issue was it couldn't figure out the network security settings (which requires logging in with a username and password) and it would immediately pop up saying can't connect to network. Another wifi issue I've came across is there is difficulty disconnecting from a network and hopping on another one. When you hit disconnect, it will sit there with the spinning circles until you switch the wifi adapter on and off.
In all honesty though, it could be my laptop causing the problems because it's a 4 year old computer but I never ran across those issues on Windows 7

no contora up till now
I experience some bugs wth windows store

I think Cortana is jealous of Android
True story:
I installed build 9926 (major hassle but another story) and started playing with Cortana.
I set Android as topic that interested me and a few links popped up. I clicked a link, IE opened, and the page started loading, and just kept loading - no text. A minute later (I'm running Win 10 in VMWare) I copied the link, went to my host system, and pasted it into Firefox. Worked fine. Another two or three minutes later, IE said the page was running 'a very long script'. I clicked to send a frown (IE feedback to MS) A window popped up, I explained the problem, and Win 10 crashed. HARD. Just locked up. Finally had to delete the VM and reinstall.
I'm kind of afraid to tell Cortana I like Android now.

BSOD
Tried installing the Preview on my PC. Nothing unusual happens during the installation. All runs well after series of restarts. The problem only arises after I switched off my PC. When I opened it again I was greeted with BSOD.
Anyone here experiencing the same issue?

JeySi said:
Tried installing the Preview on my PC. Nothing unusual happens during the installation. All runs well after series of restarts. The problem only arises after I switched off my PC. When I opened it again I was greeted with BSOD.
Anyone here experiencing the same issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't say that I have, but can you include any other information within the BSOD such as the bugcheck code or any other text besides the usual "Your computer has been shut down and we're collecting data" text? It could be a driver that's being updated through Windows Update or a preview update that's causing issues.

i think windows 10 will be a success unlike windows 8 failed to attract users