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Howdy folks. Since people here always know what's around the corner, has anyone heard about phones with a Mirasol screen? I read about this tech several years ago, and haven't really heard anything since. As I understand it, instead of depending on light to pass through a colored filter, it uses tiny reflective pits to generate color. The depth of the pit affects which wavelengths of light are able to reflect back out. If what I've read is true, not only would this mean that bright light will no longer wash out your phone's display (quite the opposite), but it would have battery consumption comparable to that of the E-Ink displays of Kindle and Nook (and other E-readers) since it only applies power to change the state of the pixels, no sustainment power necessary. Here's a link to the wikipedia entry on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interferometric_modulator_display
I'm no expert but you probably need to wait for the economies of scale to kick in and lower the cost of these things. Also the article said that production just came online in Jan, it also said that for now they only show black and one additional color.
Hello,
I have received Google Nexus 10 and it seems like the seal was broken, which suggests that somebody else has already used it (or at least unpacked).
I guess that the only known "big issue" is the light bleed. Could somebody tell me, step by step, how to determine it? (e.g. how to load all black screen? What brightness should I use to check it?). I am trying to judge whether to keep the tablet or not.
Thank you for help,
Theriel
Try using an app like this LCD test:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...DEsImRlLmxhcHBlLnRpbS5hbmRyb2lkLmxjZHRlc3QiXQ..
go to the pure black and then play around with the brightness (set it to max).
You'll almost certainly going to see some but this should help you decide if it's a deal breaker for you.
the darker the room the better aswell! if you are in a pitch dark room and only see little light bleed at max brightness then have a little smile to yourself and enjoy the nexus!
theriel said:
Hello,
I have received Google Nexus 10 and it seems like the seal was broken, which suggests that somebody else has already used it (or at least unpacked).
I guess that the only known "big issue" is the light bleed. Could somebody tell me, step by step, how to determine it? (e.g. how to load all black screen? What brightness should I use to check it?). I am trying to judge whether to keep the tablet or not.
Thank you for help,
Theriel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out "Backlight Bleed Test"
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.joeleveque.backlightbleedtest
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
So what is light bleed that matters?
I know the OP's question is on testing for bleed, but want to respond to help those wondering whether what they're seeing in their tests is normal or a defect that a replacement unit might solve . . .
Starting with a couple of suggested definitions:
'Light bleed' is a significant unevenness in screen lighting/brightness that's irritating in normal use – like scalloping along the edges, or being a lot brighter or darker on one side. Separately, let's call it 'black glow' when what's intended to be jet black on a screen doesn't appear completely black.
If you search the Web for 'light bleed' and the name of any major tablet, you'll find plenty of references to this. When examining your tablet, for context do the same with your laptop, LCD monitor, and LCD TV, for all are subject to the same concerns. No screen technology is perfect. Lighting on all LCD screens varies somewhat depending on the angle you look at it, and some level of 'black glow' is normal too.
Looking at your all-black screen in a dark room with the brightness turned up can be a useful test to verify problems if you find concerns that affect normal usage. This is a worst-case-scenario video test, and when you test your other LCD-screen devices this way, you are bound to see 'black glow'.
A lot of cell phones (mostly Samsung) have AMOLED screens that don't need screen backlighting & thus don't have 'black glow' – each pixel is a light and blacks can truly be black. But these screens are limited to smaller devices – the largest are two lower-resolution 7.7" units; you can't buy a 10" AMOLED tablet. With LCD's, note that the larger the screen & the higher the resolution, the brighter the backlight (really, it's on the edge) needs to be.
There are definitely defective units out there, and some that aren't as even as others. Hopefully this adds context to the discussion and will help folks new to the issue decide whether their unit is bad enough to be worth exchanging . . .
brocco99 said:
I know the OP's question is on testing for bleed, but want to respond to help those wondering whether what they're seeing in their tests is normal or a defect that a replacement unit might solve . . .
Starting with a couple of suggested definitions:
'Light bleed' is a significant unevenness in screen lighting/brightness that's irritating in normal use – like scalloping along the edges, or being a lot brighter or darker on one side. Separately, let's call it 'black glow' when what's intended to be jet black on a screen doesn't appear completely black.
If you search the Web for 'light bleed' and the name of any major tablet, you'll find plenty of references to this. When examining your tablet, for context do the same with your laptop, LCD monitor, and LCD TV, for all are subject to the same concerns. No screen technology is perfect. Lighting on all LCD screens varies somewhat depending on the angle you look at it, and some level of 'black glow' is normal too.
Looking at your all-black screen in a dark room with the brightness turned up can be a useful test to verify problems if you find concerns that affect normal usage. This is a worst-case-scenario video test, and when you test your other LCD-screen devices this way, you are bound to see 'black glow'.
A lot of cell phones (mostly Samsung) have AMOLED screens that don't need screen backlighting & thus don't have 'black glow' – each pixel is a light and blacks can truly be black. But these screens are limited to smaller devices – the largest are two lower-resolution 7.7" units; you can't buy a 10" AMOLED tablet. With LCD's, note that the larger the screen & the higher the resolution, the brighter the backlight (really, it's on the edge) needs to be.
There are definitely defective units out there, and some that aren't as even as others. Hopefully this adds context to the discussion and will help folks new to the issue decide whether their unit is bad enough to be worth exchanging . . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is faintly noticeable all the time with auto brightness on. I asked for an RMA and it was 2-3 times as bad. I think I will keep this one. As of now looking at it really bothers me, but I know in a few months once this device has some wear it won't matter to me. However I am still debating on attempting to receive a refund and possibly buying it in the stores in a few months. Hmmm lol.
Thank you all for your informative responses.
I am attaching the pictures of my case. I guess I will have to return it - although you cannot see in the light and with non-black background, it is pretty annoying when the background is black and the ambient light is a bit dimmer...
What would you do in my case ? How does this case compare to your cases?
Thank you,
Theriel
my orignal device has servere light bleed on the left corner and my replacement device has servere light bleed on the right corner... 3rd one is on the way, please Google, give me a acceptable screen before the world ends!!
I do not think there is any point of returning it. It seems liek light bleed is inherent in the design of these tablets. I have two right in front of me, the second one has even worse light bleed. I shall be keeping the first one. Does any one know if they will charge my card for the second one. It seems like they charged me card, then a days before I got a second nexus 10, they removed the charged.
I was expecting a courier to pick up my old nexus 10. But no one has. Any one else in the same situation with 2 nexus 10s?
sharp910sh said:
I do not think there is any point of returning it. It seems liek light bleed is inherent in the design of these tablets. I have two right in front of me, the second one has even worse light bleed. I shall be keeping the first one. Does any one know if they will charge my card for the second one. It seems like they charged me card, then a days before I got a second nexus 10, they removed the charged.
I was expecting a courier to pick up my old nexus 10. But no one has. Any one else in the same situation with 2 nexus 10s?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know its bad when its a best of the worst scenario. Lol.
sharp910sh said:
I do not think there is any point of returning it. It seems liek light bleed is inherent in the design of these tablets. I have two right in front of me, the second one has even worse light bleed. I shall be keeping the first one. Does any one know if they will charge my card for the second one. It seems like they charged me card, then a days before I got a second nexus 10, they removed the charged.
I was expecting a courier to pick up my old nexus 10. But no one has. Any one else in the same situation with 2 nexus 10s?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will place another hold of the price of the device until the rma'd unit has returned to them. It would take another 7 days until the hold is released from what was explained to me. So at the moment for me they have 1k of my money on hold because the original is in route to them now and I had just ordered the replacement for the replacement!
You will have to setup a pickup or go to the nearest UPS facility to return your defective unit.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
jjdevega said:
They will place another hold of the price of the device until the rma'd unit has returned to them. It would take another 7 days until the hold is released from what was explained to me. So at the moment for me they have 1k of my money on hold because the original is in route to them now and I had just ordered the replacement for the replacement!
You will have to setup a pickup or go to the nearest UPS facility to return your defective unit.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I was thinking that. But they do not have any of my money on hold. They did but then it was returned back?! Keep checking my account. I thought they were going to organise the collection of my old devise. Seems like i shall give them a ring. They may charge my card again!
So... what do you think about my case (see photos in the previous post)? How does it compare to the "average Nexus 10" you have/have seen? Is it "ok" or "one of the worst cases" or... ?
I am not sure if it is not worth waiting 2-3 weeks for a new tablet, as opposed to holding onto a defective one for a few years...
theriel said:
So... what do you think about my case (see photos in the previous post)? How does it compare to the "average Nexus 10" you have/have seen? Is it "ok" or "one of the worst cases" or... ?
I am not sure if it is not worth waiting 2-3 weeks for a new tablet, as opposed to holding onto a defective one for a few years...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your one looks bad!
@OP: It seems the question should be whether your screen looks great to you in normal use or not. If lighting evenness irritates under normal use, *then* the dark room/full-black screen test can confirm what you're seeing. Is only time you see a funny pattern when testing the thing this way?
We can't really know if a picture taken with a typical camera in a dark room really reflects how you see the image; most cameras normally crank the gain up 'till there's some kind of funny colored image. My screen is a bit brighter in the lower right when running this test -- which I see as nothing more than an interesting detail about how the backlighting works, it's completely irrelevant to me in normal use. If your picture really does reflect what you experience, and it affects normal usage . . . yep, it's worse than mine.
The easiest way you can get context for what you're seeing is probably to run the same test on any laptop or tablet you can get ahold of -- makes sense that you don't want your tablet to come up short when compared to what you see first-hand on other LCD screens. That's probably a lot better way to decide!
Hi Everyone,
Have a look at attached example image to see what I mean.
Please try to take a manual shot with your wide lens in a very dark environment with very high ISO (3200 in example) and exposure time of 5secs plus (20 secs in example).
Everyone who has tried that so far has the same issue, a big purple shadow on the top. It's most likely the laser and it won't happen with the normal lense.
Do you have the same result? Any suggestions what we can do about it?
Whoa! I haven't seen that in a long time. I think maybe around the time of the Nikon D80. I can't currently try this out personally but by the sounds of it what has happened is called Amp Glow. It's when you kind of start getting out of the bounds of what is really acceptable shooting conditions for a given sensor. In this case, if you really are shooting in conditions that call for high ISO AND still need a shutter speed of 20 seconds and the image still comes out that dark, then you're way beyond realistic expectations for shooting with a cellphone. In the older DSLRs, people would see it when doing star trail photos that were 10 minutes or longer. Frame stacking software became the solution to this problem by taking a lot of shorter photos and stacking them up and pulling through the new dots of light. (And this is still used by a lot of photographers as it also gets rid of other forms of noise.)
So what is happening? ISO is pretty much the gain. It's the amplification being applied to the signal coming off of the sensor. Ideally with ANY camera, you want to stay as close to the base ISO of a given sensor. That's usually the lowest ISO number. (There are some exceptions where some camera manufacturers have done some trickery to get a lower ISO to show up but that was short lived as it didn't really help things.) Unfortunately, image sensors are not hanging in space. They're packed in with a ton of other stuff. Stuff that gets warm. If that stuff is near an edge of the sensor, that heat bleeds into the sensor and then those warmed pixels get amplified by the higher ISO and next thing you know, Amp Glow. Well, that's the simplified version at least.
A cellphone, any cellphone, is not designed for those kinds of shots. If they were, they would have a tripod mount, a much better flash, and a much larger sensor. (Yeah, the flash on your cellphone is not meant to light up stuff much past 5 feet. Even the ones built into a DSLR aren't meant for much past about 15-20 feet.) The reality is that cellphones are designed for handheld shots with decent light. Even the larger sensor used in some cellphones shouldn't be expected to pull any miracles that top end DSLRs are just barely pulling off cleanly. For that shot, you would want to use a dedicated camera locked down on a tripod using base ISO and long exposure at the very least. Although, personally, I'd probably just take a pass on that shot.
someone on reddit has the exam same issue with the wide angle. and someone said it's in the regular too. weird. my s7 never had this purple hue when I did even 30 second exposure at night.
Sent from my LG V20 US996
something obstructing the lens maybe, or just camera went bad
Better hope this isn't the same problem the HTC one m7 had with the purple haze. The culprit was a light sensor on the camera would overhear and give a purple haze on the screen in low light. Place the phone face down and with the camera on and see if the purple comes back.
Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
Dark Jedi said:
Better hope this isn't the same problem the HTC one m7 had with the purple haze. The culprit was a light sensor on the camera would overhear and give a purple haze on the screen in low light. Place the phone face down and with the camera on and see if the purple comes back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it won't happen with the same ISO/Shutter settings I took the previously attached photo. But maybe that's because it's not dark enough. Did the M7 issue only happen in dark enviornment as well?
CHH2 said:
Whoa! I haven't seen that in a long time. I think maybe around the time of the Nikon D80. I can't currently try this out personally but by the sounds of it what has happened is called Amp Glow. It's when you kind of start getting out of the bounds of what is really acceptable shooting conditions for a given sensor. In this case, if you really are shooting in conditions that call for high ISO AND still need a shutter speed of 20 seconds and the image still comes out that dark, then you're way beyond realistic expectations for shooting with a cellphone. In the older DSLRs, people would see it when doing star trail photos that were 10 minutes or longer. Frame stacking software became the solution to this problem by taking a lot of shorter photos and stacking them up and pulling through the new dots of light. (And this is still used by a lot of photographers as it also gets rid of other forms of noise.)
So what is happening? ISO is pretty much the gain. It's the amplification being applied to the signal coming off of the sensor. Ideally with ANY camera, you want to stay as close to the base ISO of a given sensor. That's usually the lowest ISO number. (There are some exceptions where some camera manufacturers have done some trickery to get a lower ISO to show up but that was short lived as it didn't really help things.) Unfortunately, image sensors are not hanging in space. They're packed in with a ton of other stuff. Stuff that gets warm. If that stuff is near an edge of the sensor, that heat bleeds into the sensor and then those warmed pixels get amplified by the higher ISO and next thing you know, Amp Glow. Well, that's the simplified version at least.
A cellphone, any cellphone, is not designed for those kinds of shots. If they were, they would have a tripod mount, a much better flash, and a much larger sensor. (Yeah, the flash on your cellphone is not meant to light up stuff much past 5 feet. Even the ones built into a DSLR aren't meant for much past about 15-20 feet.) The reality is that cellphones are designed for handheld shots with decent light. Even the larger sensor used in some cellphones shouldn't be expected to pull any miracles that top end DSLRs are just barely pulling off cleanly. For that shot, you would want to use a dedicated camera locked down on a tripod using base ISO and long exposure at the very least. Although, personally, I'd probably just take a pass on that shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. My question here would be, why doesn't it happen to other phone-cameras with similar settings?
Kujoja said:
No, it won't happen with the same ISO/Shutter settings I took the previously attached photo. But maybe that's because it's not dark enough. Did the M7 issue only happen in dark enviornment as well?
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. My question here would be, why doesn't it happen to other phone-cameras with similar settings?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes the m7 only happened in low light / dark environment. Do a Google search for HTC one m7 purple haze. What caused me not to buy another htc phone
Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
Kujoja said:
No, it won't happen with the same ISO/Shutter settings I took the previously attached photo. But maybe that's because it's not dark enough. Did the M7 issue only happen in dark enviornment as well?
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. My question here would be, why doesn't it happen to other phone-cameras with similar settings?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Settings aren't the only part of the equation. The other par is the placement of other components within the device. I need to look at the tear downs to see how the various parts are placed next to each other but something is heating up and passing that heat to the sensor. Just off the top of my head there are four parts together; the two camera sensors, the laser focus module, and the flask module. Each one of those on its own will generate heat if used enough.
Dark Jedi said:
Yes the m7 only happened in low light / dark environment. Do a Google search for HTC one m7 purple haze. What caused me not to buy another htc phone
Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the same issue. I haven't looked at the HTC issue but from your description of it, it's the same. Amp glow is what it is called in digital photography. (OK, silly that I said digital as you don't get amp glow in film.) The glow will show up because there is no other data coming off of the sensor for those pixels and the heat is amplified as "data".
---------- Post added at 05:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------
Ok, just watched the JerryRigEverything repair tear down. The flash module sits right next to the wide angle and the laser focus next to the regular sensor. There is no mention as to what is sitting next to the sensors on the main board but I see silver boxes on each side with one having some sort of black and yellow warning sticker. Not sure what they are so I can't rope them in as culprits. So for now, I'd say it's a combo of the four units of the camera assembly.
Were you running the flash or one of the cameras a lot while you were playing around? Shooting a lot of long exposure shots in a row?
I'll get to test out some night shots and video tonight at a lighting ceremony but I'm still not expecting to shoot 3200 for 20 seconds type shots. Again, that's pretty extreme.
If you're colorblind, please disregard this thread. Rate this thread to express how you deem the color saturation and accuracy of the Samsung Galaxy Note 8's display. A higher rating indicates that you think that color accuracy is very high and saturation is excellent.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
1 star . My one is very yellow
Adaptive advanced red off green off blue max
And it is almost white
Might have to return ?
I have the unlocked version, I won't give it a number, but I feel the phone's screen is very good.
Menchelke said:
I have the unlocked version, I won't give it a number, but I feel the phone's screen is very good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally very pleased. But Basic mode on display still is very saturated . Also since when was warm a pink hue? Ive always led to believe warm is short wavelength that should exhibit a yellow hue which mine doesn't.
3 stars
Sent from my SM-T819Y using Tapatalk
I would like to know the settings for best accuracy since I'd like to edit photos on this, I read the screen has an excellent accuracy but mine is pretty yellowish. Tried the basic mode but its absolutely lifeless and lacks contrast.
Hello. Home theater enthusiast here. Thought I would share my opinion as I have my own calibration tools (i1d3 with HCFR, Lightspace and DisplayCal, and eeColor boxes for 3D LUTs for 1080p and lower content (4K boxes are still too expensive IMO).
This is by far the best display I own. This thing is just as good as my LG E6 OLED... with a 3D LUT! I'd like to mention that the E6 and similar displays are deployed and used for critical grading of movies due to their accuracy and gamut coverage. Without a 3D LUT they're pretty crappy due to limited and buggy built-in calibration controls (you can only have part of the gamut accurate by sacrificing accuracy everywhere else. Skin tones, memory colors or a distributed error focusing on improving the 50-70% saturated colors, can only have one of these or none at all.
Sorry, getting off topic, back to the Note 8 display.
This is very important. DON'T USE ADAPTIVE MODE IF YOU WANT ACCURATE COLORS -OR- THE STANDARD D65 WHITE POINT COLOR TEMPERATURE.
Adaptive has a fairly aggressive boost to saturation. Also, the RGB slider controls are for controlling the SECOND saturation boost on top of what Adaptive has already boosted!
Adaptive/Cinema/Photo use a DCI-P3 in BT.2020 colorspace
Basic uses rec.709/sRGB colorspace.
All non-HDR content (movies, pictures, graphics) do not use this color space. The colors will not be converted properly (primaries and secondaries have an axis shift. Also, 50% saturation in sRGB/rec.709 (non-HDR movies) will be at a different location in the visible spectrum (i.e. not the same color). This is a notable difference if you can quickly do an A/B comparison.
Basic is the most accurate colorspace simply because it's rec.709/sRGB and that is what everything was made for. Use Cinema or Photo if you want/like the saturation boost that happens when viewing /rec.709/sRGB content with a DCI-P3 in bt.2020 colorspace.
HDR videos have embedded metadata (sort of like ID3 tags for music files) which will trigger the display to automatically change to the appropriate and totally separate color space that you can't choose in the display options. The reason for this is because HDR by spec needs each pixel of the screen to produce drastically higher luminance (nits). rec.709/sRGB generally reach up to around 300-400 nits at peak on a quality display while HDR has a defined peak of 10,000 nits by spec. No current display can reach this yet, most are around 2-5000 nits (OLEDs are in the 700-1800 range. See AVSForum for discussions about OLED vs LCD/Quantum dot/Projector HDR nit levels).
This prevents users from using HDR levels of luminance for extended periods of time. More nits needs more voltage, more volts means not only faster battery drainage, but also more heat is generated and shortens the life of each OLED subpixel as the organic compound ages (more voltage quickens aging).
Image BURN IN is caused when some OLED subpixels have aged faster than others near it. This IS permanent.
Image RETENTION is NOT permanent yet looks just like image burn in. This is from voltage that has built up and can no longer be contained in the components controlling each pixel. Simply discharge them by turning the screen OFF (As in power off. I think Always On Display keeps them primed and ready for use). You could also look at animated full screen color noise/static patterns. This would improve uniformity by fully charging the components for remaining pixels. (ex: The old and free ".js" file version of jscreenfix. Present version is web based and not full screen).
If you're worried about being blinded by the high HDR nits, don't be.
The intent of HDR is to NOT cap peak brightness and provide a fixed gamma transfer function (layman: How bright something is relative to your display's darkest possible black and brightest possible white).
To explain what I mean, let's say we have two identical displays with an impossible 100% for color accuracy. And let us assume we have a perfectly mixed movie for both SDR and HDR (alot of movies are only graded once from the source material and then that graded copy gets regraded for the other releases. Basically this is bad but most movie studios are either trying to save money or simply don't care unless it's a "blockbuster" movie....
So again, let's say he have a perfect SDR and HDR release.
Side by side they will be 90% identical. The "HDR" levels are ONLY for specular highlights, like light reflections water/chrome/etc, clouds, sparks and other generally small details. Having something at 10,000 kits that is only, let's say, ~30x30 pixels isn't going to appear blindingly bright but will appear brighter in relation to the pixels around it (which again is the whole point of HDR).
Now for the other three screen modes...
Despite what you think you're seeing, CINEMA/PHOTO/BASIC MODES ARE NOT "TOO RED". ADAPTIVE DOES HAS TOO MUCH BLUE.
Adaptive is default, and by the time you get to the display options your brain has already adapted to this colder color temperature and you perceive the change as having too much red.
Instead of trying to explain why this happens, look at THIS ILLUSION.
The biological and science mechanics at the core of this illusion is exactly why you should NEVER compare colors by sight alone, and this is basically what happens when switching back and forth between modes after adapting to one mode. The rods/cones on our retina are not digital and takes time for them to adapt to changes in stimulation to light entering your eyes.
It appears this way because most displays come from the factory with a cooler color temperature than the industry standard D65 white point. This makes displays look better on a showroom floor under all their fluorescent lights. Simply put, if you think it's "too red", it's because you're used to seeing something that's "too blue".
Actually use these other modes for a day or there about so you have put real hours into looking at the screen, not just a few minutes of the day. Then try switching back to your adaptive settings. You may be surprised to find your opinion to be different about the other modes being too red.
This doesn't mean you can't prefer adaptive mode's saturation boost and/or cooler warmer temperature (aka a more "blue" screen), nor am I criticizing anyone who does not use Basic.
I'm just presenting fact, and not my opinion, based on data in regards to accuracy.
Personally I use Cinema mode and only switch to Basic for drawing.
TL;DR:
Adaptive has terrible accuracy, doesn't have a D65 white/color temperature, uses an HDR colorspace for non-HDR content (this is bad), and two levels of built-in saturation boost (RGB slider controls effect only one of these boosts).
Straight from the factory basic has color accuracy rivaling even the best ISF calibrated displays with a 3D LUT, has D65 white/color temperature, and uses same SDR colorspace that non-HDR content was made with.
I've done my own measurements with my own calibration equipment, and my results support their findings. Not that I doubt their results, I mean DisplayMate is known in the Home Theatre scene for their technical articles. If you don't agree with them then do your own measurements to get factual data for comparison. Human eyes are lying sacks of crap (read: adaptive) and you can search AVSForum if you need explanations and/or proof of this.
Here is DisplayMate's shootout for anyone enterested.
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note8_ShootOut_100.htm
Just turned my phone to basic. Looks a lot better now. No more super bright cartoons colours. It also makes the colours of my graphic design logos more accurate.
I've always used Basic mode in all my previous Samsung devices inc my tablet.
However, the basic mode on the N8 shows a pink hue which is not tolerable to my eyes. Now, if the basic mode showed a true warmer tone like a slight yellow hue it wouldn't be so bad.
Talking of which, I was always under the impression that the term "warm" in respect of display technology meant whites would appear somewhat yellower , not pink like this display. ?
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Isn't there an app to fully calibrate the screen?
Limeybastard said:
I've always used Basic mode in all my previous Samsung devices inc my tablet.
However, the basic mode on the N8 shows a pink hue which is not tolerable to my eyes. Now, if the basic mode showed a true warmer tone like a slight yellow hue it wouldn't be so bad.
Talking of which, I was always under the impression that the term "warm" in respect of display technology meant whites would appear somewhat yellower , not pink like this display. ?
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're trying to compare how the screen looks by your eyes alone, you're doing it wrong. Look at Illusion link in my long post.
How that illusion works is the best "short" version of explaining why you think Cinema/Photo/Basic looks pink.
If you really want to know if the screen is in fact too red, or too blue or even green, you need to use calibration equipment (colorimeter, spectrometer/spectroradiograph, and software; HCFR and DisplayCal are free, Light Illusion, CalMan, ChromaPure are expensive.
Getting your own gear is quite costly, but you might be able to rent it for half a day or so for a fraction of the price. If anyone is even remotely interested in this go to AVSforums.
I've actually measured 5 others (1 European and the rest USA variants) besides mine (Korean version), and every one was within the repeatability tollerances for my i1d3 pro. I don't think there will be any differences from manufacturing randomness due to how accurate they are straight from the factories, and I feel the same for any regional differences.
I'm not trying to offend anyone, but you are extremely likely to be wrong if you think Cinema/Photo/Basic modes are too red/warm using your eyes or another display as reference. Human eyes will adapt to warmer or cooler color temperatures regardless of accuracy, and factual data from tools all point to those display modes having amazing accuracy (See DisplayMate's shootout).
As for the question about color temperature...
The visible spectrum of light the typical human eye see will see more green colors than red and blue combined.
Blue is the portion we see the least of.
D65 is the standard white point which is based on the spectral pattern of light from the sun.
Since white is all colors, having D65 white means colors will interact with other colors realistically so there is no drastic change in perception around other light sources like tinting only under fluorescent lights but not incandescent lights.
Warm and Cool are how we describe which corner on a CIE chart a white is closer too in relation to where D65 is.
The above isn't totally true, but I didn't want to go into detail, but it's close enough I think. See AVSforum for the truth from people far more knowledgeable than I, like real ISF certified calibrators, Calibration hardware/software companies used by movie studios and scientists, etc).
Try using the phone for a couple of hours straight while set to Basic, then go back and change it. Do you still think it looks pink?
Before I forget again, it's possible a screen protector can cause a tint, as the material of the protector and any coatings it has (polarization, anti-glare, oleophobic, etc) will change the spectral distribution of the primary colors red/green/blue. This will change your perception of color based on your environmental lighting. So it could look perfectly fine in one room of your house and different in another if they had different types of light. That's just an example, as there are so many types of lights and each have their own color temperature and spectral distribution. Not just like incandescent vs fluorescent lights, but various types of incandescents (size, shape, power consumption, bulb material, diffuse coating, etc).
EMJI79 said:
Isn't there an app to fully calibrate the screen?
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Android does not have any real color management, so you can't really calibrate the screen.
It's not really needed with this models' display, from the factory they are one of if not the most accurate displays you can get. It is on par with OLED displays with a 3D LUT that are used by movie studios for color grading.
Take a gander at DisplayMate's shootout for the Note 8. This is a technical analysis made by DisplayMate who's business is dealing with grading level accurate displays for those studios.
I just realised I may look like I'm advertising for AVSforum. I'm not.
It's just that what XDA is to Android and related stuffs, AVSforum is to home theatre and related stuffs. Actually they're better as they actually have active "official" members of the industry and not representatives. It's great being able to talk to people at or close to the source. I say active because they're not just there to advertise or sell you something. You can learn 99% of everything about calibration, for free, from the same people who's job is calibration or ISF instructors who hold paid or college classes. The equivalent type of people missing from XDA would be like engineers, lead techs and top level technical people from smartphone divisions from all the companies.
Kamikaze_Ice said:
Android does not have any real color management, so you can't really calibrate the screen.
It's not really needed with this models' display, from the factory they are one of if not the most accurate displays you can get. It is on par with OLED displays with a 3D LUT that are used by movie studios for color grading.
Take a gander at DisplayMate's shootout for the Note 8. This is a technical analysis made by DisplayMate who's business is dealing with grading level accurate displays for .
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I think for colour accuracy it also comes to personal preference, like for sound equalization.
I used mine initially in the AMOLED Photo mode but did notice that colors were oversaturated. I've since switched to Basic mode and so far prefer it to the other modes. No, it isn't perfect, but whites are more white than Adaptive mode and colors are less over-saturated than the other modes. AMOLED Photo would still be my second choice. Adaptive mode has whites that are much too blue.
I found amoled screen to be really dependent to orientation. In the best one it is better than IPS and in all the other ones it is worse. They really got to fix this.
EMJI79 said:
I think for colour accuracy it also comes to personal preference, like for sound equalization.
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Accuracy is NOT and NEVER WILL BE personal preference (unless you prefer accuracy, lol). Preference is an opinion, and has nothing to do with the truth. I prefer Cinema mode, despite knowing Basic is the most accurate mode for all content shown on the screen (HDR will trigger HDR mode, which use completely different settings.)
In this case the screen accuracy is referencing the standard it was made for (BT.2020 and Rec.709).
You're free to think Basic looks too red, but there is a 99% chance that you are wrong (<1% chance due to bad screen protector materials/polariaztion filter/dot matrix/oleophobic & other coatings and your environmental lighting).
Again, the screen is one of the most accurate displays ever made. Take it to any calibrator (not "geek squad"...) and they will get the same results as DisplayMate... assuming the calibrator has a spectro to profile his meters to the amoled screen.
I won't even get into sound. I'll just point everyone to Head-fi.org forums as well as AVSforums. Way to many variables to cover, even for IEMs which take your "room sound" out of the equation. Both places will do a far better job at explaining the science behind everything for audio and (digital) visual things. And yes, real science. Everything I've mentioned has hard proof (measurements) and not ancedotal or biased opinion.
None of this means you can't like something that's "not accurate". Just wanting to make it known that yes many don't know what they're talking about (Not trying to be rude here. Just sayin').
Bs, who tells you I have the exact same eye as you. Who tells you present measurements or even science covers whole phenomena variables (plus Godel and other scientist prove science can't completely theorise a phenomena).
Unless you have attended to MIT or Princeton chances are you haven't achieved science study level I have.
I don't appreciate the haughty way you commented my post.
EMJI79 said:
Bs, who tells you I have the exact same eye as you. Who tells you present measurements or even science covers whole phenomena variables (plus Godel and other scientist prove science can't completely theorise a phenomena).
Unless you have attended to MIT or Princeton chances are you haven't achieved science study level I have.
I don't appreciate the haughty way you commented my post.
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What's your screen issues. ? Just out interest.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
No real issue but I am not satisfied with the way greens are displayed, like on vegetation pictures.
Kamikaze_Ice said:
Despite what you think you're seeing, CINEMA/PHOTO/BASIC MODES ARE NOT "TOO RED". ADAPTIVE DOES HAS TOO MUCH BLUE.
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This is probably true, however, I grew accustomed to a more blueish white, that the basic mode appears too warm now.
I remember last year, after trading my Note 7 for the second time and going to the LG V20, that I thought the LG had a way too bright white, noticeably more blue. However, after having had that for about a year and finally switching back with the Note 8 a few days ago, the basic just doesn't feel right anymore. I really like the adaptive (that is, with a few minor adjustments to the sliders), but whenever I am in a game or watching something, then the adaptive mode has way too much saturation. Then the only thing that does help is switching back to Basic mode, but I get annoyed by how warm it appears to be as soon as I hit anything with a white background (like settings or text messaging). The laptop I'm writing this on also has a more blueish white, my Samsung SHUD TV seems to be somewhat in the middle of it all but less red than my Note.
While basic may be the best setting, I can't say I really like it. Switching back and forth between the modes is a workaround, not really a solution. I really want to like this phone, but it is quite an annoyance to me personally, even more so when I consider I'm paying 950 USD for it. I am going to give it a few more days to see if I can get better used to basic mode or if I am going to return it to the store. It saddens me a bit that there's no option to add a little bit more blue to the basic mode, which, to me, is really all it needs.
I would also like to add more blue even to adaptive mode.
Sent from my Samsung SM-G955F using XDA Labs
svache said:
This is probably true, however, I grew accustomed to a more blueish white, that the basic mode appears too warm now.
I remember last year, after trading my Note 7 for the second time and going to the LG V20, that I thought the LG had a way too bright white, noticeably more blue. However, after having had that for about a year and finally switching back with the Note 8 a few days ago, the basic just doesn't feel right anymore. I really like the adaptive (that is, with a few minor adjustments to the sliders), but whenever I am in a game or watching something, then the adaptive mode has way too much saturation. Then the only thing that does help is switching back to Basic mode, but I get annoyed by how warm it appears to be as soon as I hit anything with a white background (like settings or text messaging). The laptop I'm writing this on also has a more blueish white, my Samsung SHUD TV seems to be somewhat in the middle of it all but less red than my Note.
While basic may be the best setting, I can't say I really like it. Switching back and forth between the modes is a workaround, not really a solution. I really want to like this phone, but it is quite an annoyance to me personally, even more so when I consider I'm paying 950 USD for it. I am going to give it a few more days to see if I can get better used to basic mode or if I am going to return it to the store. It saddens me a bit that there's no option to add a little bit more blue to the basic mode, which, to me, is really all it needs.
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Although a different device, the basic mode on my Samsung tab S2 LTE is awesome. It's a night and day difference to the Note 8 , albeit both adaptive modes on both devices are closer in my eyes . However, the basic mode on the tab s2 doesn't go pink but a more warmer yellow type mode.
I agree with you , the basic mode in my eyes on the N8 is rubbish.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I recently got an Eonon GA8163 unit for my mazda, and for the most part its okay.
I'm really considering returning it because of the dim screen during the daytime. With sunglasses on, you can't see it, and without its still pretty dim.
Is there anything I can do to help it out?
I have everything set at max brightness, white background, but was wondering if there were any more advanced work arounds.
If there isn't anything else I can do, i'm tempted to return the unit and go with a standard brand name double din unit.
Hi there is usually a resistor or a preset resistor that you can change or adjust. But you will have to find the location of it on the board. If you have the PCB layout it would be much easier to locate it.
display brightness
Jixr said:
I recently got an Eonon GA8163 unit for my mazda, and for the most part its okay.
I'm really considering returning it because of the dim screen during the daytime. With sunglasses on, you can't see it, and without its still pretty dim.
Is there anything I can do to help it out?
I have everything set at max brightness, white background, but was wondering if there were any more advanced work arounds.
If there isn't anything else I can do, i'm tempted to return the unit and go with a standard brand name double din unit.
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I stumbled on to a fix in setting if you lighten the backup cam settings to 10 it seams to lighten the regular display it fix mine very happy
traderdude12 said:
I stumbled on to a fix in setting if you lighten the backup cam settings to 10 it seams to lighten the regular display it fix mine very happy
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How do you change the backup camera settings? The backup cam on mine automatically launches when the car is placed in reverse, but I don't see an extra app or settings. Your help is appreciated!
your settings
stonedogSC said:
How do you change the backup camera settings? The backup cam on mine automatically launches when the car is placed in reverse, but I don't see an extra app or settings. Your help is appreciated!
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Hi go into factory settings (126) then scroll to the right there are settings to control the leds in that same column scroll down you will see backup camera brightness.
traderdude12 said:
Hi go into factory settings (126) then scroll to the right there are settings to control the leds in that same column scroll down you will see backup camera brightness.
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Thanks !!! That seems to significantly make the screen BRIGHTER. (at least it looks brighter as I look at it at night .. will see what it looks like once the sun comes up).
If it's still not bright enough, here are a few words of encouragement :-
While there is no User adjustable CONTRAST, it would seem that even at FULL Brightness, Blacks are still a full BLACK, and are not washed out and starting to become a dark gray.
This would indicate, that if the Backlight was BRIGHTER, it may still not burn through a Black section, but a white section would brighter.
So all that is needed is a BRIGHTER BACKLIGHT.
I suspect the current Backlight is running near maximum brightness, otherwise the manufacturer would set it up higher -- so what is needed is an Upgraded Backlight (and possibly associated Backlight supply).
A better backlight would cost more in production, so to keep the cost down, a manufacturer will fit a backlight with the minimum brightness (ie Cost), that they can get away with.
However, LCD displays can have potentially have very high power Backlight in them, so that they can be readily readable in BRIGHT sunlight. (if battery power is not rationed -- ie in a Smartphone). Car has a "BIG" battery, so a more power hungry BRIGHTER backlight would not be an issue on car battery life.
Next time I have the Unit "out of the car" I intend to take a look at the backlight, and research the possibolity of fitting a significantly brighter backlight. It should be possible to fit one that would be so bright, one would never want to run it at full brightness, and it would be blinding, even in direct sunlight.
Having upgraded over 200+ Industrial LCD display to brighter LED Backlights, I believe that the above might be a distinct possibility, at a reasonable cost. The only restriction might be how easy it would be for the average user, to carry out the upgrade, without damaging their unit.
If this works out, I will post some pictures and details of the upgrade.
The GS2170B is a great unit for it's price, with a very good response speed. It's only major failing I have experienced, is a sub-optimal Brightness.
Scopesys said:
Thanks !!! That seems to significantly make the screen BRIGHTER. (at least it looks brighter as I look at it at night .. will see what it looks like once the sun comes up).
If it's still not bright enough, here are a few words of encouragement :-
While there is no User adjustable CONTRAST, it would seem that even at FULL Brightness, Blacks are still a full BLACK, and are not washed out and starting to become a dark gray.
This would indicate, that if the Backlight was BRIGHTER, it may still not burn through a Black section, but a white section would brighter.
So all that is needed is a BRIGHTER BACKLIGHT.
I suspect the current Backlight is running near maximum brightness, otherwise the manufacturer would set it up higher -- so what is needed is an Upgraded Backlight (and possibly associated Backlight supply).
A better backlight would cost more in production, so to keep the cost down, a manufacturer will fit a backlight with the minimum brightness (ie Cost), that they can get away with.
However, LCD displays can have potentially have very high power Backlight in them, so that they can be readily readable in BRIGHT sunlight. (if battery power is not rationed -- ie in a Smartphone). Car has a "BIG" battery, so a more power hungry BRIGHTER backlight would not be an issue on car battery life.
Next time I have the Unit "out of the car" I intend to take a look at the backlight, and research the possibolity of fitting a significantly brighter backlight. It should be possible to fit one that would be so bright, one would never want to run it at full brightness, and it would be blinding, even in direct sunlight.
Having upgraded over 200+ Industrial LCD display to brighter LED Backlights, I believe that the above might be a distinct possibility, at a reasonable cost. The only restriction might be how easy it would be for the average user, to carry out the upgrade, without damaging their unit.
If this works out, I will post some pictures and details of the upgrade.
The GS2170B is a great unit for it's price, with a very good response speed. It's only major failing I have experienced, is a sub-optimal Brightness.
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Click to collapse
Thats awesome! Have you looked into this yet/have any luck? I have a GA2170 as well which is just a bit too dim to be easily seen in daylight (night time is fine). Also, has anyone bought an anti-glare film to cover the screen? I feel that that would help immensely (mine is so shiny that any sunlight in the car at all renders it nearly unreadable).
gadgethm said:
Thats awesome! Have you looked into this yet/have any luck? I have a GA2170 as well which is just a bit too dim to be easily seen in daylight (night time is fine). Also, has anyone bought an anti-glare film to cover the screen? I feel that that would help immensely (mine is so shiny that any sunlight in the car at all renders it nearly unreadable).
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WARNING? Long -- do not read unless you are really interested in my personal thought on this subject.
I have taken the HU apart to check out the LCD panel part. It is custom to that model, and not a readily replaceable display to a brighter panel.
So I have put modifying it on hold, and have explored some other ways to improve the appearance of the display.
(1) Tinted my Windows (they had no factory tint) .. That helped in so many other ways as well.
(2) Diagnose what was actually being reflected, which was interesting and not what I had expected.
The reflection you see when looking reasonably straight on into the display, is the reflection of what is directly perpendicularly in front of the display.
If you look at a modern car HU, they now tend to be mounted quite high up, but no longer is a shaded Tunnel/Hole.
Instead, the are mounted at an angle to point up at the inner ceiling of the car, which optimally is a dark color, and therefore is not throwing much reflective light onto the front of the Glass.
I had always incorrectly assumed, it was the direct sunlight, shining through the windows onto the panel, but this is only part of the reflection problem.
If you get a sheet of white paper, and move it around about 2 feet from the display, you should clearly see, that when you get the paper into a perpendicular position in front of the display, that the reflection from that white paper is the major cause of not being able to read the screen ,
Replace that white paper with a Mat Back sheet, and the display becomes amazingly more readable,
This is why the manufacturers now slant their units to be pointing up at the ceiling, between the drive and passenger seats.
Anti Reflective Films: I have yet to find a decent, effective, anti reflective film.
Most being sold are to help prevent scratch damage to the front glass, and if anything, are actually more reflective than the glass itself.
Manufacturers can get a pretty good anti reflective coating onto Glass (example, a good Picture frame glass, or car dashboard glass), but it must be a lot more difficult, or cost prohibitive, to get a decent anti reflective coating onto a cheap $10 screen protective film.
Since my unit is a replacment for the 2din radio in a 30 year old (Classic ?) car, and is located low in front of the gear level, and not higher up as in most modern cars, I have made compromises.
Even it it was Highly Bright & Readable, looking down at it is a major distraction of taking your eyes completely off the road, so I have concentrated now on making the unit more controllable by the addon steering wheel Buttons, and with Google Assistant control, that there is now seldom a need to even look at the unit, especially for any length of time, or to perform any complex, distracting operations.
This approach is working well, and as time goes by, I am finding I am getting far less concerned about the lower brightness display.
Also, since my Unit has Video Out, I am considering mounting a small Video screen up in my Instrument panel (Probably covering the Tach, and having a nice bright display there that I can see while still looking ahead through the windscreen. The other option is a nice bright Heads Up display, throwing the Information onto the Windscreen, just like the Air Force Fighter Pilots have in their jets !!
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SHORT Answer : No, still a work in progress
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 PM ----------
gadgethm said:
Thats awesome! Have you looked into this yet/have any luck? I have a GA2170 as well which is just a bit too dim to be easily seen in daylight (night time is fine). Also, has anyone bought an anti-glare film to cover the screen? I feel that that would help immensely (mine is so shiny that any sunlight in the car at all renders it nearly unreadable).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My GA2170B came with a film already on the screen (I think that was just a factory/shipping anti scratch protective film), and a separate, user installable protective film, that claimed to be anti reflective, but did not appear to do much to top reflections.
Manufacturers poor attempt to compensate for what they must realize is a "cheap sub standard brightness screen" -- but you get what you pay for.
You want something really nice and high end, be prepared to drop $1000+
I wish the glass on the Eonon was like the Glass on my 30 year old car's Instrument panel.
It has NO RELECTION at all, and when it is clean, you cannot even see that it is there. It looks like you can just reach out and physically touch the needles of the Gauges, even when there is bright sun shinning in directly onto it.
All the sun does is to make the Needles and Gauge Scale brighter !!
Thanks for the update! I guess I'll have to keep using it as I do until anything else changes. Cheers!