Related
Just came across this:
Some Android phones are now shipping with OLED displays, such as Nexus One, the Droid Incredible, and the Samsung Galaxy. Organic LED displays have separate pixel elements for each color channel (red, green, and blue), and each channel has a different efficiency.
Take, for example, the Nexus One. If powering only the red pixels at full intensity draws a current “i”, then powering all green pixels draws “1.5i”, and all blue pixels “2i”. (These ratios are derived from empirical measurements, and don’t hold in all cases.) Also, it’s worth noting that OLED displays don’t have backlights like LCD, meaning that darker colors draw less power.
...
Filtering to show only red pixels only requires 35% of the original baseline OLED panel current, on average. Adding back the baseline current, the best case overall is about 42% of the original system current, effectively doubling the battery life. Also, showing only red pixels doubles as an awesome night vision mode, perfect for astronomy.
If you’d like some other colors added back in, the amber and salmon filters can help, while still offering about 56% of the original system current. It’s also worth noting that the Nexus One OLED display uses a PenTile pixel layout, giving it twice as many directly-addressable green pixels as red and blue. Thus the Green-only filter results in the visually sharpest text.
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http://jsharkey.org/blog/2010/07/01/android-surfaceflinger-tricks-for-fun-and-profit/
I think it's a neat idea, it's a hardcore battery-saving trick and would surely make you look like a geek, but I could live with my screen being only red or green if I was going to write a text, read some rss feeds or basic text-only things like that.
Although I would be quite worried about shortening the life of the red AMOLED channel by doing this for a long time...
I saw that article on engadget today, i too would be very willing to go all red for that kinda current savings.
just read about this on androidandme, i would love to have this implemented for night viewing and what not.
I would think that you could also save quite a bit of battery power just by using white text on a black background for web pages and ebook reading instead of black on white.
malicious85 said:
just read about this on androidandme, i would love to have this implemented for night viewing and what not.
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I too would like this feature. Just switch the black with white text to black with red text.
Red text against a black background is supposedly easier for your eyes at night, too. I can't find a source to back that up, but i seem to recall that the longer wavelength keeps your eyes dilated, thus better able to see at night.
vincentm said:
I too would like this feature. Just switch the black with white text to black with red text.
Red text against a black background is supposedly easier for your eyes at night, too. I can't find a source to back that up, but i seem to recall that the longer wavelength keeps your eyes dilated, thus better able to see at night.
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^this. thats why spec ops have red flash lights. less strain on the eye + better vision
Very Interesting...would be a great feature
Real savings are much less since screen is not on all the time.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
I hope some devs read about this.
Someone should forward this to Mister Cyanogen
I betcha his team could do something remarkable with this.
For some of the uses I'd like to use the OS for, this would have huge benefits.
I have also heard that the lifespan of the blue color in an amoled screen is significantly shorter than red and green, so maybe it could also be used to compensate this a little.
I really would love to see this included in a rom, let's hope some of the gurus here find it interesting too!
Cyanogen already added it yesterday in his mod http://github.com/cyanogen/android_development/commit/3d7046b51e7e08a66eb0958e7819b5961fee1484
eug89 said:
Cyanogen already added it yesterday in his mod http://github.com/cyanogen/android_development/commit/3d7046b51e7e08a66eb0958e7819b5961fee1484
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great! I was always reluctant to use cyanogenmod due to its (perceived) battery usage, now this could be gone
make it an option when ur battery is below 15%, terminator mode.
screen with back light on and off. Indoors and out. This is a first generation Qi on a Lenovo laptop.
note: These are poor phone camera images. The first two are inside with normal lamp light. The second two are full sun (notice the sharp shadows) at my back with a slight angle to get rid of the glare. 1st generation Qi is not matte like Adam. The blue tint is probably from a white balance problem. The true whites on the screen are paper white and the blacks are black with definition. The screen was tuned with Adobe Gamma.
From questions on another forum I will answer some
of them here for you.
The Pixel Qi in LCD back light on mode functions like any other LCD. My color, saturation and sharpness is just like any other LCD at the same size and resolution. In back lite off it functions the same as the LCD with back light on except less color down to gray scale.
You are not getting a sub-par LCD. You are getting a normal LCD with enhanced modes. It is a positive. No negatives. You have not lost anything to gain the other. I can read my screen with a 4 graph array in my office with the back light off from 6' away. I can read for hours in full Florida sunlight with no more eye strain than you would have from reading any other 10" screen. The refresh rate is instantaneous just like any LCD.
thanks for the photos! i didnt know they already had a PQ in a notebook already. from all the images, i'm hoping Adam will look the same. what's the highest resolution the notebook is using btw?
You need no buy it and install it yourself
1024 X 600 at 32 bit
Maker Shed
http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKPQ01
Bought the Lenovo off Fleabay for couple hundred used. There are only a few laptops it will fit on and function correctly. Several videos on how to do it. Never opened a laptop before and I didn't break anything. Use it in my work in Florida every day. No longer have to run for shade to add notes or read something. Can sit by the pool and read RSS for hours. Add the extra memory to the S10-2 if you want a bunch of window open at once, otherwise base memory is fine. WIFI is very good for G.
Some nomenclature so at least you can sound like
you know what your are talking about.
Pixel Qi has three modes.
transmissive mode = back light on like regular laptop LCD
transflective mode = Back light turned down and good ambient light (Some say this is the best mode for reading.)
reflective = back light off. Ambient light used 100% to read the screen.
I use transflective mode when reading outside as it gives me a bit of color in the photos.
Read this site and blog and you will know what you are talking about.
http://www.pixelqi.com/
Matte for the Adam?
I thought there was not yet confirmation about the matte screen because of difficulties with green pixels, especially when the extra gap of the touch screen comes into play.
Also note that the Pixel Qi to be used in the adam is meant to be considerably better as it is the third? generation of Pixel Qi. (Maybe second by I seem to remember reading third?).
Even thougth it is very tempting to pre-order, It surely has to be worth the wait to see user reviews before going ahead and buying? I know I want one yestreday, but I am forcing myself to wait... Painful as that is!
I believe he said matte, just not how much matte
In blog when talking about matte screen he says"
"We told you how much we love Matt (that’s one reason why all the monitors here are from Dell). We have invested a lot of time in figuring out the right surface values which gives the perfect combination of 2 worlds (no reflection property of matt and scratch resistant property of glossy surface).
"It took us really long and was really harder for the manufacturers to make what we wanted. We can’t compromise on few things and this was one of them.
"(You need to open it in another tab and see it full screen). If you can see (I hope you do), you will see small green fringes and speckles. Matt surfaces don’t work well with Green colors and creates diffusion around green pixels. You Dell screens look good for two reason, one they have done good job and two, they don’t have to deal with the gap of touch screen in LCD monitors. Gaps add more refractions. Please see the next illustrations for more understanding.
"We have done a good work when it comes to both of these issues and you can observe the same in the final product".
I believe he has said the screen will be matte. It is a question of "how much matte" that is open to interpretation.
Generation
"Also note that the Pixel Qi to be used in the adam is meant to be considerably better as it is the third? generation of Pixel Qi. (Maybe second by I seem to remember reading third?)."
There really is no way at this point to figure out what generation the screens are. All she has said is that Adam will have "their latest and greatest." I have the Makershed "do it yourself" version which seems to have a wider viewing angle than what they were calling their 1st generation at CES 2010. Was this first gen. production, off the work bench, out the door" Who knows.
On one of the Qi videos they have one version they are showing off they called their "next generation" and then they go inside and get another newer version to show off. This was back in the summer.
Adam could be getting 10th generation for all we know, but at least we will be getting her "latest and greatest". I am sure we will be getting the screen they will be showing off at CES. Would not make sense for them to dis their best customer by showing off a better screen than was coming out on a product that was just starting to be shipped.
I see both of these companies going far, Notion Ink and Pixel. Eventually you may even see Pixel displays on smartphones.
TS
Hello.
I wanted to share my experience... I love my Kindle Fire. It's an awesome little device. Even not taking into account the ridiculous price ^^
I love gaming in it, browsing, and fiddling with customization stuff in ADW Launcher EX.
But I noticed shortly after I received it that the screen was kind of funky. After displaying a still graphic or text for a couple of minutes, the image becomes "burned" in the screen around all borders, about half an inch into the screen. It is most noticeable by switching to a flat neutral color... The easiest way to check it is by bringing down the notifications overlay, which has a gray background. At first I thought that the notifications tray was kind of transparent, but that is not the case.
My 2 brothers also bought Kindle Fires, so I compared mine to theirs and found out that my screen is completely different. Colors are more greenish, and it seems brighter when looking at it perpendicularly. However, when looking at it at an angle, it loses a lot of brightness, which the other screens did not.
So I contacted Amazon tech support, and after doing just a cold reboot, they sent me a replacement kindle fire (which i'm currently waiting on)...
This leads me to think that this is a known issue. Maybe Amazon has 2 different screen suppliers, and one of them is of crappy quality. I recommend checking your screen against another KF, or at least checking to see if it has the "burned image" problem... You can do so by displaying a webpage, preferably white bg and black text, for 5 minutes still. Then bring down the notifications tray. If you see the "ghost" of the letters and graphics, then your screen is like mine and you should ask amazon for a replacement device.
Hope this helps someone!
Cheers.
haha damn... I was so sure there were no other threads about this. Not even google brought up any other posts talking about this. Still, more info on the topic is better, right? ^^ Sorry!
jedivulcan said:
Absolutely. No worries. I couldn't find but maybe one or two posts on it either using Google.
I threw our the other forum link because there's a few pictures and a link to Amazon'sessage boards with customers that have similar issues.
I went "OOO" when I saw your post though because the observations about the Kindle were similar to mine.
It's either multiple component suppliers or really bad QC or a combination of the two. I returned both of my Kindles and might wait it out for something else.
I hate LCD display raffles. The odds of getting two that are completely different ones seem pretty high or it's an extreme coincidence.
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Yeah, it's really annoying to get a bad LCD... It has happened to me with Dell laptops, but never with mobile devices.
My particular issues with the Kindle don't seem to be exactly the same as other people, since they only get dead pixels, light bleed or weird color temps. None (that I know of) have noticed image ghosting or poor viewing angles on their devices. Maybe this thread can work as a warning to check for these particular signs so you can see if you got an inferior LCD panel in your kindle.
I really like this device, kudos to Amazon for introducing a whole new price point for android tablets... But they should continue to acknowledge and take responsibility for poor quality items. And people should be aware of the issue so they can ask for a refund or replacement unit.
However, when looking at it at an angle, it loses a lot of brightness, which the other screens did not.
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Definitively sounds like a bad screen. IPS display panels (which kindles are supposed to have), should have a near 180 degree viewing angle without loss of image. That sounds more like what you get with a TN panel (what cheaper displays [sub 300-400 dollars in terms of desktop displays] typically use). Either the IPS display was damaged somehow in the process of making it or they stuck the wrong kind of panel on it.
IPS displays are also exceptionally bright. If any of you are experience "too much" light bleed all the time then that is generally not a defect. Read on:
Light bleed around the edges is typical for IPS displays (which nearly all tablets, touchscreen phones (minus the OLED ones like samsung's) and high end desktop/laptop displays are). The solution is basically turn down the brightness (because IPS monitors are also exceptionally bright). I have 3 IPS desktop monitors (HP2475 and 2 HP2335) and 2 IPS tablets (HP touchpads) and one phone and the brightness on all are around 30-35%.
Even ipads have the issue, because they too, are IPS displays (and so are iphones). Just random information..."retina" is just a fancy marketing buzzword for "high resolution IPS display."
Light bleed tends to obviously be more noticeable on dark backgrounds such as black. If it's really noticeable, your display is most likely too bright.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPS_panel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_display#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29
The kindle fire uses LG displays, (same supplier to many HP products, Apple, HTC and others). That should be a good thing, but defects do happen. Just another random fact...there's only a handful of IPS display panel manufacturers (LG, Sony/Samsung [a partnership], a few chinese outfits and maybe another Japanese one). Reason being the cost to make them mostly. Most monitors are just displays from those companies re-branded and wrapped in a monitor shell.
The single most expensive subsystem in the Kindle Fire is the display and touch screen, at a combined cost of $87.00, or 46.9 percent of the BOM. Amazon sources the display from two companies: LG Display and E Ink Holdings. The display uses E Ink’s FFS technology, which LG Display has licensed.
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Didn't have room to fit the term "differences in technology" in the title. Also an objective pluses and minuses of each technology.
Please don't turn this thread into a bashing of different phones/displays. Lets respect all opinions :victory: I like to know the ins and outs of this stuff for the job .
For instance, I have read that AMOLED can have overly apparent pixels at lower resolutions and that the more often you look at black on the phone, the more battery you will save.
I, personally speaking, tend to enjoy AMOLED screens whenever I upgrade people to S3s vs. lumia 920 or iphones or HTCs.
Lumias lack vibrance to an almost unrealistic point for me. I can certainly understand if someone disagrees, however.
Iphones/ Ipads have great displays, though I find that I have to keep the brightness of them very high to keep viewing enjoyable.
HTCs are the most realistic color wise to me, though personally speaking I enjoy the contrast of AMOLEDS more. I will say, however, the pictures do not do the HTC One display justice. I haven't seen an S4 in person yet, though the HTC One easily trumps its predecessors in vibrance and clarity and is currently my favorite display, even over the S3. We'll see how that works out whenever I see S4.
What are battery saving tips for instance that I could give my customers with all brands for the customers (other than obviously higher brightness = less battery life)? Would it make sense to say that AMOLEDS burn more battery with green because of a greater amount of green sub pixels? Stuff like that.
Thanks in advance everyone!
AMOLEDs over saturate colors by default (although now you can tune it to be closer to real color reproduction if you so wish) which makes more things "pop out". AMOLEDs also do much better with black background, and in fact, I find it the best when watching movies/shows. Their weakness comes a bit with whites which keeps them from a better potential brightness, and they also suffer risk of screen burn-in (Less of a problem as long as you don't keep your screen turned on for hours when you're not using it).
Some battery saving tips:
-Turn off features you're not using. It normally goes without saying but I've met so many people who just want the complete experience who keep everything turned on and then complain because their battery goes to crap even when they're not using said features all that much.
-Beware background running Apps and Apps in general that require constant data checks. It's worth taking a few minutes to identify what these are and whether they're worth keeping and when to disable them.
-Another biggie of course is constant 3G/4G connection. Apps like Tasker and Automagic allow you to avoid constant signal locking with towers that drains your battery when you're not using any of the data.
Those are about the basics. It would be a good opportunity to point out, at least when pitching the Galaxy S4, that since it has a removable battery there's always the option of keeping a spare one that can be popped in when there's no more charge left. This would also happen to be a good time to sell them an extra battery if you keep it stocked. Oh yeah, and please, please, please direct customers towards useful apps. Again, I've met too many people with phones who just go with stock apps and never browse the Play store. There are so many useful apps on there, especially when it comes to managing your phone and taking advantage of all its features.
Sarcron said:
AMOLEDs over saturate colors by default (although now you can tune it to be closer to real color reproduction if you so wish) which makes more things "pop out". AMOLEDs also do much better with black background, and in fact, I find it the best when watching movies/shows. Their weakness comes a bit with whites which keeps them from a better potential brightness, and they also suffer risk of screen burn-in (Less of a problem as long as you don't keep your screen turned on for hours when you're not using it).
Some battery saving tips:
-Turn off features you're not using. It normally goes without saying but I've met so many people who just want the complete experience who keep everything turned on and then complain because their battery goes to crap even when they're not using said features all that much.
-Beware background running Apps and Apps in general that require constant data checks. It's worth taking a few minutes to identify what these are and whether they're worth keeping and when to disable them.
-Another biggie of course is constant 3G/4G connection. Apps like Tasker and Automagic allow you to avoid constant signal locking with towers that drains your battery when you're not using any of the data.
Those are about the basics. It would be a good opportunity to point out, at least when pitching the Galaxy S4, that since it has a removable battery there's always the option of keeping a spare one that can be popped in when there's no more charge left. This would also happen to be a good time to sell them an extra battery if you keep it stocked. Oh yeah, and please, please, please direct customers towards useful apps. Again, I've met too many people with phones who just go with stock apps and never browse the Play store. There are so many useful apps on there, especially when it comes to managing your phone and taking advantage of all its features.
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I tend to recommend two apps along with always restarting/ turning off your phone at least once a day. The apps I recommend are advanced task killer and 1tap cleaner for clearing cache. I recommend them based on their overall simplicity. If you know any simpler/ more effective apps please let me know.
Keep in mind that 95% of customers that come into the store find even connecting to password connected wifi complicated. They are hardly as computer/ UI intuitive as we are concerning apps and phone settings go. If it requires more than three intuitive clicks (not including the click to open it) we generally see it as a no go for recommendations. Lord knows how much we hate how complicated explaining port settings are to explain when people run into issues setting up their emails (Iphone 4/4s's are NOTORIOUS for this.. also if you have a bellsouth email, get a new one. They're plagued with problems) so that they don't have to come into the store every time a glitch occurs and an email becomes unresponsive.
I only understand the screen techs in "layman's terms" if you will, but here goes...
Traditional smartphone screens (HTC, iPhone etc.) are LCDs - liquid crystal displays. There is one big white backlight, and liquid crystals switch on and off to filter out different colors. Each subpixel (red, green, blue) can be adjusted to different levels for each pixel to create every color.
OLED screens, specifically AMOLED from samsung, stand for organic LED. The screen is literally made up of tiny tiny LEDs that are individually turned on or off and adjusted in brightness. This means when you see red, the red subpixels are on, and the blue and green ones are off.
I'm not sure why, but as of now, LCDs work better outdoors. The maximum brightness and reflectivity provide a brighter image on for example the HTC one compared to the S4. On the other hand, AMOLED produces more vibrant colors (I'm sure you heard the phrase "they pop out"), and I don't know why that happens either.
Also on AMOLED, when you see a lack of color (black, for instance), the pixels are OFF. This means that looking at black is exactly the same as when the phone is turned off. That is why you get an infinite contrast ratio; pure black is pure black. This is also why AMOLED gives a better battery life when looking at most images, especially black and dark ones. Conversely, the LCD will use the same power if it is on no matter what it is displaying. If it is displaying anything, it is fully on, as that big backlight covers the entire screen, with the dark pixels blocking it. This means that some light will "bleed" through the black pixels, making them appear slightly lit. The contrast ratio is a factor here, because some screens show less white when they are supposed to be black. When looking at mostly white images (Web browsing, for example), LCDs give better battery life because when you are looking at white on an AMOLED, every single subpixel is on, which consumes a ton of power. For the most part, though, unless you do heavy browsing or have a white-themed phone, AMOLED will generally give a better battery life.
The part about greens is entirely based on other aspects of the display. Most of Samsung's AMOLED displays are in the pentile matrix, which means that instead of three subpixels per pixel (RGB), you get two alternating types of pixels with two subpixels each - RG and BG. While the green pixels are slightly smaller, there are still twice as many, and this layout makes the overall image quality worse than the RGB matrix. In the GS2, Samsung used super AMOLED plus, which changed the pixel layout to RGB. This made the screen look really good, but they switched back to pentile with the GS3 because it is currently not possible to make AMOLED RGB screens with that high of a resolution. However, at 1080p, it is pretty hard for most people to be bothered by the pentile matrix. Most LCDs, aside from those found in Motorola phones for some stupid reason, use RGB.
If you're colorblind, please disregard this thread. Rate this thread to express how you deem the color saturation and accuracy of the Samsung Galaxy Note 8's display. A higher rating indicates that you think that color accuracy is very high and saturation is excellent.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
1 star . My one is very yellow
Adaptive advanced red off green off blue max
And it is almost white
Might have to return ?
I have the unlocked version, I won't give it a number, but I feel the phone's screen is very good.
Menchelke said:
I have the unlocked version, I won't give it a number, but I feel the phone's screen is very good.
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Generally very pleased. But Basic mode on display still is very saturated . Also since when was warm a pink hue? Ive always led to believe warm is short wavelength that should exhibit a yellow hue which mine doesn't.
3 stars
Sent from my SM-T819Y using Tapatalk
I would like to know the settings for best accuracy since I'd like to edit photos on this, I read the screen has an excellent accuracy but mine is pretty yellowish. Tried the basic mode but its absolutely lifeless and lacks contrast.
Hello. Home theater enthusiast here. Thought I would share my opinion as I have my own calibration tools (i1d3 with HCFR, Lightspace and DisplayCal, and eeColor boxes for 3D LUTs for 1080p and lower content (4K boxes are still too expensive IMO).
This is by far the best display I own. This thing is just as good as my LG E6 OLED... with a 3D LUT! I'd like to mention that the E6 and similar displays are deployed and used for critical grading of movies due to their accuracy and gamut coverage. Without a 3D LUT they're pretty crappy due to limited and buggy built-in calibration controls (you can only have part of the gamut accurate by sacrificing accuracy everywhere else. Skin tones, memory colors or a distributed error focusing on improving the 50-70% saturated colors, can only have one of these or none at all.
Sorry, getting off topic, back to the Note 8 display.
This is very important. DON'T USE ADAPTIVE MODE IF YOU WANT ACCURATE COLORS -OR- THE STANDARD D65 WHITE POINT COLOR TEMPERATURE.
Adaptive has a fairly aggressive boost to saturation. Also, the RGB slider controls are for controlling the SECOND saturation boost on top of what Adaptive has already boosted!
Adaptive/Cinema/Photo use a DCI-P3 in BT.2020 colorspace
Basic uses rec.709/sRGB colorspace.
All non-HDR content (movies, pictures, graphics) do not use this color space. The colors will not be converted properly (primaries and secondaries have an axis shift. Also, 50% saturation in sRGB/rec.709 (non-HDR movies) will be at a different location in the visible spectrum (i.e. not the same color). This is a notable difference if you can quickly do an A/B comparison.
Basic is the most accurate colorspace simply because it's rec.709/sRGB and that is what everything was made for. Use Cinema or Photo if you want/like the saturation boost that happens when viewing /rec.709/sRGB content with a DCI-P3 in bt.2020 colorspace.
HDR videos have embedded metadata (sort of like ID3 tags for music files) which will trigger the display to automatically change to the appropriate and totally separate color space that you can't choose in the display options. The reason for this is because HDR by spec needs each pixel of the screen to produce drastically higher luminance (nits). rec.709/sRGB generally reach up to around 300-400 nits at peak on a quality display while HDR has a defined peak of 10,000 nits by spec. No current display can reach this yet, most are around 2-5000 nits (OLEDs are in the 700-1800 range. See AVSForum for discussions about OLED vs LCD/Quantum dot/Projector HDR nit levels).
This prevents users from using HDR levels of luminance for extended periods of time. More nits needs more voltage, more volts means not only faster battery drainage, but also more heat is generated and shortens the life of each OLED subpixel as the organic compound ages (more voltage quickens aging).
Image BURN IN is caused when some OLED subpixels have aged faster than others near it. This IS permanent.
Image RETENTION is NOT permanent yet looks just like image burn in. This is from voltage that has built up and can no longer be contained in the components controlling each pixel. Simply discharge them by turning the screen OFF (As in power off. I think Always On Display keeps them primed and ready for use). You could also look at animated full screen color noise/static patterns. This would improve uniformity by fully charging the components for remaining pixels. (ex: The old and free ".js" file version of jscreenfix. Present version is web based and not full screen).
If you're worried about being blinded by the high HDR nits, don't be.
The intent of HDR is to NOT cap peak brightness and provide a fixed gamma transfer function (layman: How bright something is relative to your display's darkest possible black and brightest possible white).
To explain what I mean, let's say we have two identical displays with an impossible 100% for color accuracy. And let us assume we have a perfectly mixed movie for both SDR and HDR (alot of movies are only graded once from the source material and then that graded copy gets regraded for the other releases. Basically this is bad but most movie studios are either trying to save money or simply don't care unless it's a "blockbuster" movie....
So again, let's say he have a perfect SDR and HDR release.
Side by side they will be 90% identical. The "HDR" levels are ONLY for specular highlights, like light reflections water/chrome/etc, clouds, sparks and other generally small details. Having something at 10,000 kits that is only, let's say, ~30x30 pixels isn't going to appear blindingly bright but will appear brighter in relation to the pixels around it (which again is the whole point of HDR).
Now for the other three screen modes...
Despite what you think you're seeing, CINEMA/PHOTO/BASIC MODES ARE NOT "TOO RED". ADAPTIVE DOES HAS TOO MUCH BLUE.
Adaptive is default, and by the time you get to the display options your brain has already adapted to this colder color temperature and you perceive the change as having too much red.
Instead of trying to explain why this happens, look at THIS ILLUSION.
The biological and science mechanics at the core of this illusion is exactly why you should NEVER compare colors by sight alone, and this is basically what happens when switching back and forth between modes after adapting to one mode. The rods/cones on our retina are not digital and takes time for them to adapt to changes in stimulation to light entering your eyes.
It appears this way because most displays come from the factory with a cooler color temperature than the industry standard D65 white point. This makes displays look better on a showroom floor under all their fluorescent lights. Simply put, if you think it's "too red", it's because you're used to seeing something that's "too blue".
Actually use these other modes for a day or there about so you have put real hours into looking at the screen, not just a few minutes of the day. Then try switching back to your adaptive settings. You may be surprised to find your opinion to be different about the other modes being too red.
This doesn't mean you can't prefer adaptive mode's saturation boost and/or cooler warmer temperature (aka a more "blue" screen), nor am I criticizing anyone who does not use Basic.
I'm just presenting fact, and not my opinion, based on data in regards to accuracy.
Personally I use Cinema mode and only switch to Basic for drawing.
TL;DR:
Adaptive has terrible accuracy, doesn't have a D65 white/color temperature, uses an HDR colorspace for non-HDR content (this is bad), and two levels of built-in saturation boost (RGB slider controls effect only one of these boosts).
Straight from the factory basic has color accuracy rivaling even the best ISF calibrated displays with a 3D LUT, has D65 white/color temperature, and uses same SDR colorspace that non-HDR content was made with.
I've done my own measurements with my own calibration equipment, and my results support their findings. Not that I doubt their results, I mean DisplayMate is known in the Home Theatre scene for their technical articles. If you don't agree with them then do your own measurements to get factual data for comparison. Human eyes are lying sacks of crap (read: adaptive) and you can search AVSForum if you need explanations and/or proof of this.
Here is DisplayMate's shootout for anyone enterested.
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note8_ShootOut_100.htm
Just turned my phone to basic. Looks a lot better now. No more super bright cartoons colours. It also makes the colours of my graphic design logos more accurate.
I've always used Basic mode in all my previous Samsung devices inc my tablet.
However, the basic mode on the N8 shows a pink hue which is not tolerable to my eyes. Now, if the basic mode showed a true warmer tone like a slight yellow hue it wouldn't be so bad.
Talking of which, I was always under the impression that the term "warm" in respect of display technology meant whites would appear somewhat yellower , not pink like this display. ?
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Isn't there an app to fully calibrate the screen?
Limeybastard said:
I've always used Basic mode in all my previous Samsung devices inc my tablet.
However, the basic mode on the N8 shows a pink hue which is not tolerable to my eyes. Now, if the basic mode showed a true warmer tone like a slight yellow hue it wouldn't be so bad.
Talking of which, I was always under the impression that the term "warm" in respect of display technology meant whites would appear somewhat yellower , not pink like this display. ?
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If you're trying to compare how the screen looks by your eyes alone, you're doing it wrong. Look at Illusion link in my long post.
How that illusion works is the best "short" version of explaining why you think Cinema/Photo/Basic looks pink.
If you really want to know if the screen is in fact too red, or too blue or even green, you need to use calibration equipment (colorimeter, spectrometer/spectroradiograph, and software; HCFR and DisplayCal are free, Light Illusion, CalMan, ChromaPure are expensive.
Getting your own gear is quite costly, but you might be able to rent it for half a day or so for a fraction of the price. If anyone is even remotely interested in this go to AVSforums.
I've actually measured 5 others (1 European and the rest USA variants) besides mine (Korean version), and every one was within the repeatability tollerances for my i1d3 pro. I don't think there will be any differences from manufacturing randomness due to how accurate they are straight from the factories, and I feel the same for any regional differences.
I'm not trying to offend anyone, but you are extremely likely to be wrong if you think Cinema/Photo/Basic modes are too red/warm using your eyes or another display as reference. Human eyes will adapt to warmer or cooler color temperatures regardless of accuracy, and factual data from tools all point to those display modes having amazing accuracy (See DisplayMate's shootout).
As for the question about color temperature...
The visible spectrum of light the typical human eye see will see more green colors than red and blue combined.
Blue is the portion we see the least of.
D65 is the standard white point which is based on the spectral pattern of light from the sun.
Since white is all colors, having D65 white means colors will interact with other colors realistically so there is no drastic change in perception around other light sources like tinting only under fluorescent lights but not incandescent lights.
Warm and Cool are how we describe which corner on a CIE chart a white is closer too in relation to where D65 is.
The above isn't totally true, but I didn't want to go into detail, but it's close enough I think. See AVSforum for the truth from people far more knowledgeable than I, like real ISF certified calibrators, Calibration hardware/software companies used by movie studios and scientists, etc).
Try using the phone for a couple of hours straight while set to Basic, then go back and change it. Do you still think it looks pink?
Before I forget again, it's possible a screen protector can cause a tint, as the material of the protector and any coatings it has (polarization, anti-glare, oleophobic, etc) will change the spectral distribution of the primary colors red/green/blue. This will change your perception of color based on your environmental lighting. So it could look perfectly fine in one room of your house and different in another if they had different types of light. That's just an example, as there are so many types of lights and each have their own color temperature and spectral distribution. Not just like incandescent vs fluorescent lights, but various types of incandescents (size, shape, power consumption, bulb material, diffuse coating, etc).
EMJI79 said:
Isn't there an app to fully calibrate the screen?
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Android does not have any real color management, so you can't really calibrate the screen.
It's not really needed with this models' display, from the factory they are one of if not the most accurate displays you can get. It is on par with OLED displays with a 3D LUT that are used by movie studios for color grading.
Take a gander at DisplayMate's shootout for the Note 8. This is a technical analysis made by DisplayMate who's business is dealing with grading level accurate displays for those studios.
I just realised I may look like I'm advertising for AVSforum. I'm not.
It's just that what XDA is to Android and related stuffs, AVSforum is to home theatre and related stuffs. Actually they're better as they actually have active "official" members of the industry and not representatives. It's great being able to talk to people at or close to the source. I say active because they're not just there to advertise or sell you something. You can learn 99% of everything about calibration, for free, from the same people who's job is calibration or ISF instructors who hold paid or college classes. The equivalent type of people missing from XDA would be like engineers, lead techs and top level technical people from smartphone divisions from all the companies.
Kamikaze_Ice said:
Android does not have any real color management, so you can't really calibrate the screen.
It's not really needed with this models' display, from the factory they are one of if not the most accurate displays you can get. It is on par with OLED displays with a 3D LUT that are used by movie studios for color grading.
Take a gander at DisplayMate's shootout for the Note 8. This is a technical analysis made by DisplayMate who's business is dealing with grading level accurate displays for .
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I think for colour accuracy it also comes to personal preference, like for sound equalization.
I used mine initially in the AMOLED Photo mode but did notice that colors were oversaturated. I've since switched to Basic mode and so far prefer it to the other modes. No, it isn't perfect, but whites are more white than Adaptive mode and colors are less over-saturated than the other modes. AMOLED Photo would still be my second choice. Adaptive mode has whites that are much too blue.
I found amoled screen to be really dependent to orientation. In the best one it is better than IPS and in all the other ones it is worse. They really got to fix this.
EMJI79 said:
I think for colour accuracy it also comes to personal preference, like for sound equalization.
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Accuracy is NOT and NEVER WILL BE personal preference (unless you prefer accuracy, lol). Preference is an opinion, and has nothing to do with the truth. I prefer Cinema mode, despite knowing Basic is the most accurate mode for all content shown on the screen (HDR will trigger HDR mode, which use completely different settings.)
In this case the screen accuracy is referencing the standard it was made for (BT.2020 and Rec.709).
You're free to think Basic looks too red, but there is a 99% chance that you are wrong (<1% chance due to bad screen protector materials/polariaztion filter/dot matrix/oleophobic & other coatings and your environmental lighting).
Again, the screen is one of the most accurate displays ever made. Take it to any calibrator (not "geek squad"...) and they will get the same results as DisplayMate... assuming the calibrator has a spectro to profile his meters to the amoled screen.
I won't even get into sound. I'll just point everyone to Head-fi.org forums as well as AVSforums. Way to many variables to cover, even for IEMs which take your "room sound" out of the equation. Both places will do a far better job at explaining the science behind everything for audio and (digital) visual things. And yes, real science. Everything I've mentioned has hard proof (measurements) and not ancedotal or biased opinion.
None of this means you can't like something that's "not accurate". Just wanting to make it known that yes many don't know what they're talking about (Not trying to be rude here. Just sayin').
Bs, who tells you I have the exact same eye as you. Who tells you present measurements or even science covers whole phenomena variables (plus Godel and other scientist prove science can't completely theorise a phenomena).
Unless you have attended to MIT or Princeton chances are you haven't achieved science study level I have.
I don't appreciate the haughty way you commented my post.
EMJI79 said:
Bs, who tells you I have the exact same eye as you. Who tells you present measurements or even science covers whole phenomena variables (plus Godel and other scientist prove science can't completely theorise a phenomena).
Unless you have attended to MIT or Princeton chances are you haven't achieved science study level I have.
I don't appreciate the haughty way you commented my post.
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What's your screen issues. ? Just out interest.
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No real issue but I am not satisfied with the way greens are displayed, like on vegetation pictures.
Kamikaze_Ice said:
Despite what you think you're seeing, CINEMA/PHOTO/BASIC MODES ARE NOT "TOO RED". ADAPTIVE DOES HAS TOO MUCH BLUE.
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This is probably true, however, I grew accustomed to a more blueish white, that the basic mode appears too warm now.
I remember last year, after trading my Note 7 for the second time and going to the LG V20, that I thought the LG had a way too bright white, noticeably more blue. However, after having had that for about a year and finally switching back with the Note 8 a few days ago, the basic just doesn't feel right anymore. I really like the adaptive (that is, with a few minor adjustments to the sliders), but whenever I am in a game or watching something, then the adaptive mode has way too much saturation. Then the only thing that does help is switching back to Basic mode, but I get annoyed by how warm it appears to be as soon as I hit anything with a white background (like settings or text messaging). The laptop I'm writing this on also has a more blueish white, my Samsung SHUD TV seems to be somewhat in the middle of it all but less red than my Note.
While basic may be the best setting, I can't say I really like it. Switching back and forth between the modes is a workaround, not really a solution. I really want to like this phone, but it is quite an annoyance to me personally, even more so when I consider I'm paying 950 USD for it. I am going to give it a few more days to see if I can get better used to basic mode or if I am going to return it to the store. It saddens me a bit that there's no option to add a little bit more blue to the basic mode, which, to me, is really all it needs.
I would also like to add more blue even to adaptive mode.
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svache said:
This is probably true, however, I grew accustomed to a more blueish white, that the basic mode appears too warm now.
I remember last year, after trading my Note 7 for the second time and going to the LG V20, that I thought the LG had a way too bright white, noticeably more blue. However, after having had that for about a year and finally switching back with the Note 8 a few days ago, the basic just doesn't feel right anymore. I really like the adaptive (that is, with a few minor adjustments to the sliders), but whenever I am in a game or watching something, then the adaptive mode has way too much saturation. Then the only thing that does help is switching back to Basic mode, but I get annoyed by how warm it appears to be as soon as I hit anything with a white background (like settings or text messaging). The laptop I'm writing this on also has a more blueish white, my Samsung SHUD TV seems to be somewhat in the middle of it all but less red than my Note.
While basic may be the best setting, I can't say I really like it. Switching back and forth between the modes is a workaround, not really a solution. I really want to like this phone, but it is quite an annoyance to me personally, even more so when I consider I'm paying 950 USD for it. I am going to give it a few more days to see if I can get better used to basic mode or if I am going to return it to the store. It saddens me a bit that there's no option to add a little bit more blue to the basic mode, which, to me, is really all it needs.
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Although a different device, the basic mode on my Samsung tab S2 LTE is awesome. It's a night and day difference to the Note 8 , albeit both adaptive modes on both devices are closer in my eyes . However, the basic mode on the tab s2 doesn't go pink but a more warmer yellow type mode.
I agree with you , the basic mode in my eyes on the N8 is rubbish.
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