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So as the interwebz suggest, 4.4.1 is right around the corner for the Nexus 5/GPE devices. Considering the fact that the VZW variant of the Moto X was on the bleeding edge of the Kit Kat OTA and got it before even the Nexus 4, do you think this is a trend that will continue? I'm interested to see what bug fixes there are and if the promised camera improvements will be aimed specifically at the Nexus 5, or perhaps broader improvements to the software. What do you guys think?
I don't think 4.4.1 will aim other devices. It will include fixes for Nexus 5 only IMO.
I'm worried about the next update. What if we can't get root?
natezire71 said:
I'm worried about the next update. What if we can't get root?
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Then you buy a developer's edition.
natezire71 said:
I'm worried about the next update. What if we can't get root?
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Click to collapse
This is one big reason I went for the Dev Edition... I'm too much of a tinkerer to fret over such unknowns. I mean it always comes eventually, but with Dev Editions you get instant gratification! Just need to flash stock recovery, accept the OTA, reflash custom recovery, re-root. BAM, done.
natezire71 said:
I'm worried about the next update. What if we can't get root?
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I've been using an Android phone since 2.1.
By my quick count on Wikipedia, there have been 27 versions (including minor updates) of Android since 2.1.
I'm not aware of any Android version that was discovered to be unrootable.
I suspect you don't have to be too worried...
icon123 said:
Then you buy a developer's edition.
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Buy me one? I don't have that kind of money.
Furthermore, I have a Motomaker custom. I don't want to lose that.
kbluhm said:
This one reason I went for the Dev Edition... I'm too much of a tinkerer to fret over such unknowns. I mean it always comes eventually, but with Dev Editions you get instant gratification!
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I beat you by about 5 sec. But really, that's what this game has come to. If you want easy root and possibly romming, then dev editions are going to be the only way to go. Right now, I think moto is making that easier for us to do.
binary visions said:
I've been using an Android phone since 2.1.
By my quick count on Wikipedia, there have been 27 versions (including minor updates) of Android since 2.1.
I'm not aware of any Android version that was discovered to be unrootable.
I suspect you don't have to be too worried...
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Click to collapse
I suspect you need to do more reading. Check up on what security features KitKat brought to our MotoXs.
Edit: I'm not so much worried about If you can root it, I'm worried about having it published. Jcase only rooted 4.4 because we were able to downgrade the bootloader. If that wasn't possible, I still don't think there would be root for the MotoX (non-dev).
natezire71 said:
Buy me one? I don't have that kind of money.
Furthermore, I have a Motomaker custom. I don't want to lose that.
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Click to collapse
You simply sell your subsidized phone and buy a dev edition. Can't help you about the moto maker though.
natezire71 said:
I suspect you need to do more reading. Check up on what security features KitKat brought to our MotoXs.
Edit: I'm not so much worried about If you can root it, I'm worried about having it published. Jcase only rooted 4.4 because we were able to downgrade the bootloader. If that wasn't possible, I still don't think there would be root for the MotoX (non-dev).
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I suspect I've read plenty about KitKat. I know about the security features.
Jcase rooted 4.4 using the downgrade because an existing vulnerability was available. He explicitly stated that there was another vulnerability available and he just wasn't going to develop for it/reveal it. Vulnerabilities are always discovered.
What, you think Apple hasn't been trying to quash rooting for years now?
I'm just saying, I've been in IT for a long time. Exploits are discovered, workarounds are created. Root access is gained and life moves on.
binary visions said:
I suspect I've read plenty about KitKat. I know about the security features.
Jcase rooted 4.4 using the downgrade because an existing vulnerability was available. He explicitly stated that there was another vulnerability available and he just wasn't going to develop for it/reveal it. Vulnerabilities are always discovered.
What, you think Apple hasn't been trying to quash rooting for years now?
I'm just saying, I've been in IT for a long time. Exploits are discovered, workarounds are created. Root access is gained and life moves on.
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Of course, but what if it's never published? I'm not worried about the actual exploits. There will always be exploits. I'm only concerned with an awesome dev to publish it. Who else is working on the MotoX? So far, it seems like Hashcode and Jcase. If Jcase decides not to publish... Then what?
natezire71 said:
Of course, but what if it's never published? I'm not worried about the actual exploits. There will always be exploits. I'm only concerned with an awesome dev to publish it. Who else is working on the MotoX? So far, it seems like Hashcode and Jcase. If Jcase decides not to publish... Then what?
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Well, there are never guarantees, of course... but given that virtually every version of Android on every phone attains root eventually, I'm just going to have some faith!
I think people may be putting too much faith in what devs can do based on what has been done.
4.4 has the potential to change things big time. dm-verity combined with a locked bootloader is going to be a beast to crack. Once a device ships from the factory with it enabled and a locked bootloader, I would not be expecting root on it anytime soon. Then you will have people asking why don't we just crack the key like they were when the GS3 came out. (answer: you will never ever crack the key. --Math)
As for using the idea that Apple has tried and never got it to stick, I'd say they haven't tried this hard.
Just as a sidenote, I don't think the SELinux and dm-verity additions in android are either bad or targeted at the modders out there. These are excellent steps in securing the OS, and shows that Google is serious about making devices trustworthy. The work they did on dm-verity is just great stuff. This is good for people who don't care about modifying their device and those who only buy devices with unlocked bootloaders, but not so good for people who have a locked bootloader, and are on either ATT or VZW, both of whom really don't want you to modify your device.
TL;DR - Buy a device with an unlocked bootloader, don't count on anything, past success is not indicative of future success.
I hope 4.4.1 brings an even better ART this time.
Seems like this update is pretty specific to the Nexus 5 as a camera fix. Not sure the Moto X will even see it.
Sent from my XT1056 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
phippsy84 said:
Seems like this update is pretty specific to the Nexus 5 as a camera fix. Not sure the Moto X will even see it.
Sent from my XT1056 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Won't really know until the 4.4.1 source is published. Could be a lot of other stuff on the back-end that was updated/fixed that wouldn't really show up in a major changelog.
Nexus 4 received the update today too so it isn't nexus 5 specific.
imnuts said:
Won't really know until the 4.4.1 source is published. Could be a lot of other stuff on the back-end that was updated/fixed that wouldn't really show up in a major changelog.
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Very true
Sent from my XT1056 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Not only the N4 but the Nexus 7 LTE. SO... probably more going on than just camera
I know the phone won't be out until the 23rd (despite heavy argument from a certain bunch that still think the 17th is the release date for verizon based on what "their reps told them"). Looks like the S5 and the Note 3 on the latest builds have no root and require flashing an older kernel to root the phone. Seems like that trend is going to carry over to the Note 4 with the exception of us not having an older kernel to flash and root. So any talks within the community about a bounty or new root method being developed? Let's get the chatter going early so we don't have to wait 3-6 months after release date like the Note 3. I'm going to miss my record button during phone calls =(
armeN0317 said:
I know the phone won't be out until the 23rd (despite heavy argument from a certain bunch that still think the 17th is the release date for verizon based on what "their reps told them"). Looks like the S5 and the Note 3 on the latest builds have no root and require flashing an older kernel to root the phone. Seems like that trend is going to carry over to the Note 4 with the exception of us not having an older kernel to flash and root. So any talks within the community about a bounty or new root method being developed? Let's get the chatter going early so we don't have to wait 3-6 months after release date like the Note 3. I'm going to miss my record button during phone calls =(
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I have 3 S5's and 2 Note 3's all on the latest build.
They are all rooted.
Thats good new. Can you still run free hotspot?
god, i'm going to so need root. between ad away and being able to uses mobile hotspot and titanium backup, ugh. I can't imagine an ad filled phone. lol
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
I will smash this phone into the ground if it doesn't get root.
Tmobile Note 4 has root currently. Unfortunately it trips the Knox counter in the process.
Adaway is a must, I used my wifes phone and has no idea how many ads there actually where
I am treating the delay as a positive, since if root is not available for US models, I will not get the N4. Need root to allow external storage writes and do NOT trust Google that they will leave the function enabled in Lollipop. Not the slightest.
If no root, will stay with the S4 32GB a while longer, but still a fine device that is rooted and I do have card writes enabled.
SirVilhelm said:
Thats good new. Can you still run free hotspot?
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Dont know, I added the $10 hotspot to my account.
Im on an enterprise account so the features and rates are a bit different.
SirVilhelm said:
Thats good new. Can you still run free hotspot?
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No offense since just asking. Why is it good news for devices not the N4 being rooted since this thread would inherently be for the N4?
The S4, S5 and N3 all are easy to root, but other than a trend, does not mean much for the N4 (besides not a negative trend)
Forgot about needing adaway. Another reason to have root!
rushless said:
No offense since just asking. Why is it good news for devices not the N4 being rooted since this thread would inherently be for the N4?
The S4, S5 and N3 all are easy to root, but other than a trend, does not mean much for the N4 (besides not a negative trend)
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Click to collapse
Because we assume that the S5 and N4 are going to be very similar on the software side. If the S5 has root there is a very good possibility that the N4 will also get root. Not guaranteed but good chance.
rushless said:
No offense since just asking. Why is it good news for devices not the N4 being rooted since this thread would inherently be for the N4?
The S4, S5 and N3 all are easy to root, but other than a trend, does not mean much for the N4 (besides not a negative trend)
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Click to collapse
The S4, S5, and N3 are not easy to root.
SirVilhelm said:
Because we assume that the S5 and N4 are going to be very similar on the software side. If the S5 has root there is a very good possibility that the N4 will also get root. Not guaranteed but good chance.
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Eventually maybe. It's important to keep in mind that the note 4 uses a 3.10 Linux kernel while all previous phones (s4, s5, n3) used 3.4 Linux kernel. Meaning if a new exploit for S5 is found it doesn't mean it would work for the Note 4 while it's likely to work on s4, and note 3.
looks like the tmobile note 4 already has root. I hope that same method works for verizon
How did they root the TM? I am curious if Towel Root will root the Note4 since it roots so many different phones including the Note3.
MichaelMcC said:
How did they root the TM? I am curious if Towel Root will root the Note4 since it roots so many different phones including the Note3.
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Towel root won't root the note 4 it hasn't had a update since June it's no longer supported and has been patch with newer kernels. As for t-mobile it was root by Chainfire who is very popular for finding root methods for us.
MrWicked1 said:
Towel root won't root the note 4 it hasn't had a update since June it's no longer supported and has been patch with newer kernels. As for t-mobile it was root by Chainfire who is very popular for finding root methods for us.
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He'll probably do it for the VZW as well. I can live with just root and since Hashcode quit Safestrap I'm sure root will be all it will get.
I don't mind TW.
Might be time to look at the Nexus again.
Sure no one knows at this point, but would it be best to ignore any updates that come out (I know I am glad I did not take any with my note 2 as I was lucky to get my phone unlocked with the release version). Another question I have is once its rooted how hard is it to keep root after updates?
Wyatt W
Chainfire unlocking VZW Note 4
MichaelMcC said:
He'll probably do it for the VZW as well. I can live with just root and since Hashcode quit Safestrap I'm sure root will be all it will get.
I don't mind TW.
Might be time to look at the Nexus again.
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Click to collapse
He says in his post he won't -- the VZW locked Bootloader makes the phone brick when rooted. No one has ever gotten past the bootloader for the Note 3 yet! Hopefully a Developer version lurks...
There is an OTA already. I wonder if it will make rooting harder. Does anyone know if chainfire has started to try to root our N4?
Sure hope that is not the case, because I don't see me giving up my note 2 until this one is root-able. I am actually seriously considering cancelling my pre-order (which is full price to keep my UDP) and all my accessories that have yet to ship. Basically everything that I really care to do with my phone is somewhere tied into me being able to use xposed modules, wireless tether, etc...
Two Words: Root Access. It seems it may be harder to root Android M than we might have thought (Though we all expected this). So as a warning to those on 5.1 (whether you took the 5.1 OTA or waited for the 5.1 rooted img) and here is why:
http://www.xda-developers.com/a-look-at-marshmallow-root-verity-complications/
Given that a BL unlocked has not come out for the Droid Turbo on 4.4.4 or 5.1, this would possibly only make it harder to do so. I would suggest prolonging the OTA for as long as possible.
This is only a suggestion, however obviously you all are free to do as you please with your devices. Just wanted to give a fair warning. Though in this article it states that root might not be possible w/o BL unlock so moforoot might not even work because we can not modify our boot images.............yet (we hope). Again decision rest on your individual shoulders but I just thought, since Android M has been confirmed ( here ) for our devices, that we should at least be informed how this is going to affect our devices in the future (regarding root access and the probability of BL unlock mainly, of course). So it might not be wise to take the 6.0 update......at least not yet.
Let me know what you guys think.
We don't even have m yet....
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app
Yeah, we do. It's in my notifications now to update. Just wanna see what happens
Cjzi5i5 said:
Yeah, we do. It's in my notifications now to update. Just wanna see what happens
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That's not M. [emoji23]
Wynnded said:
That's not M. [emoji23]
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Lol don't crush his dreams.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
It's my understanding that what you posted may not really be that relevant.
For example, we can't root 5.1 for the Turbo. Unless of course you were already rooted on 4.4.4. Maybe rooting 6.0 is easier/possible if you're already rooted on 5.1. I've seen this same thing on other devices I've owned. If you take an update too early you can lock yourself out while people running the lower version have more options.
Flowah said:
It's my understanding that what you posted may not really be that relevant.
For example, we can't root 5.1 for the Turbo. Unless of course you were already rooted on 4.4.4. Maybe rooting 6.0 is easier/possible if you're already rooted on 5.1. I've seen this same thing on other devices I've owned. If you take an update too early you can lock yourself out while people running the lower version have more options.
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It clearly states that to root 6.0 that changes have to be made to the boot image which turbo users 4.4.4 or otherwise can't do. You're taking offensive to a warning post, not one meant to say it's impossible (provided BL unlock becomes available for the Droid Turbo). This is all based on Motorola's confirmation of the Droid Turbo getting 6.0 and how it could affect our devices future ability to obtain root.
Cjzi5i5 said:
Yeah, we do. It's in my notifications now to update. Just wanna see what happens
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dont worry dude.. if we get lucky we will see M by next September.
I took the 5.1 update. I'm comfortable with the fact that I'll never get root. The moment 6.0 is available, I'll update that too... knowing full well that root will never happen. Don't tell folks not to update. That's your opinion. You want to keep root, that's up to you. For those of us that it is too late, we don't care. And we'll openly take that 6.0 update... if and when it comes.
irish_711 said:
I took the 5.1 update. I'm comfortable with the fact that I'll never get root. The moment 6.0 is available, I'll update that too... knowing full well that root will never happen. Don't tell folks not to update. That's your opinion. You want to keep root, that's up to you. For those of us that it is too late, we don't care. And we'll openly take that 6.0 update... if and when it comes.
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Click to collapse
I, much like you, took the OTA update and don't have root and would like to have it once again if possible. However I did state numerous times that this is an opinion, my opinion, and everyone is free to do as they please with their devices.
While I had root and an unlocked bootloader on my S3, I found that the need rarely arose for me to even have to elevate privileges. I mainly rooted and unlocked because while I loved its hardware specs, I *hate* TouchWiz. I specifically got this phone because it had a relatively vanilla version of Android on it, it has fairly decent specs, it's nowhere as large as the Nexus 6, and the store I was at, didn't have any X's in stock. I was more than aware that us getting an unlocked bootloader, much less root was pretty unlikely, and I was actually pretty comfortable with it, surprisingly enough.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
I read the article in the OP, and I don't think we have much to worry about. It seems like verity relies pretty heavily on SELinux being set to enforcing, and we already have to set it to permissive in order to get our mofo'd roms to work properly. Does this reduce the security of our devices? Of course it does, but if you really cared about device security, you wouldn't be trying to get root access to your device in the first place. When there is an epidemic of peoples' identities/accounts/money/etc. being stolen via remote attacks, that's when I'll start to care about things like that. Even Stagefright, which is extremely well-documented and unpatched on most Android phones in circulation, doesn't have a single example of a real-world attack being executed using it (as far as I know).
Root access allows me to use things like Cerberus to help combat the much more probable event of someone with physical access to my phone getting into it, so when it comes to security, I'll take less security-by-design and more security that I can choose to implement.
I've been holding out and waiting for a root (haven't updated once yet). Curious if I just screwed up and bought a phone which will never get rooted and will have to wait till I can afford a new one which can...
Question: Should I update? I know it'll severely reduce the chances of rooting in the future but...will we ever be able to get it with a locked bootloader?
neijia said:
I've been holding out and waiting for a root (haven't updated once yet). Curious if I just screwed up and bought a phone which will never get rooted and will have to wait till I can afford a new one which can...
Question: Should I update? I know it'll severely reduce the chances of rooting in the future but...will we ever be able to get it with a locked bootloader?
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Click to collapse
If you're still on PB5 and use Hotspot, I'd stay where you're at. I haven't updated yet either. I'm avid user of Hotspot and my battery life is great. My motto is, if it ain't broke don't fix it
Sent from my SM-G935P using XDA-Developers mobile app
I'm only waiting for root; I don't use Hotspot. If we won't ever get root, I'll probably just update.
No one can say "Never," but it certainly doesn't seem promising.
neijia said:
I've been holding out and waiting for a root (haven't updated once yet). Curious if I just screwed up and bought a phone which will never get rooted and will have to wait till I can afford a new one which can...
Question: Should I update? I know it'll severely reduce the chances of rooting in the future but...will we ever be able to get it with a locked bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a similar thread to this was, this was my response
I would take the updates, your going to have to face the music at some point as I have already accepted this phone may never have root
Your on release day software and last time I checked I have never wanted to stick with the earliest builds. It's not like they rolled out OTA's only to block the APN settings, other things were done I'm sure just based on the size of the OTA's. While I didn't have any problems with it, I prefer to be on the latest versions. Not like these OTA's are beta buggy nightly builds, they have to go through the act of congress just to get approval to push them to the public.
I haven't had any issues with the latest build and I rarely used the hotspot anyway. It was nice to use a few times a year but I don't support people who abuse the piss out of it because they are too cheap to buy a wired line.
My golden rule is hard reset after any OTA if you have any issues. I can't tell you how much I will have people ask me, my phone does this, or that or bla bla. Let me guess, you took a big OTA and didn't hard reset. I'm a firm believer in clean installs.
You can avoid it for a while, but your only going to get more behind and of course I think chances will be higher for root exploits on older builds, this thing is locked down and locked again so I just decided to deal with it. Kinda sad I saw all the threads deleted in the Android development section. Just my opinion if tether was that important or root we would have went with different phones. We got a lucky break with the release software having a loophole which was quickly patched in turn locking you out of any new updates for the life of the phone unless a miracle is achieved.
Although I've lost track of when exactly they were pushed out by Lenovorola, I seem to recall my MotoX PE getting a November, then February, security patch and the "latest" May 2016 was pushed around July 20th... If that pattern (pushing out every 3rd Google release ~ 10 weeks later) holds true, might we see the August patch pushed later this month? Or will any more 6.0 patches be skipped in light of the future 7.x upgrade (whenever that may be)?
One of the reasons why I'm sticking with CM. they are on Oct. 5th security patch while the normal stock ROM is far behind
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Greatness83 said:
One of the reasons why I'm sticking with CM. they are on Oct. 5th security patch while the normal stock ROM is far behind
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I hear you... One of the reasons I bought a Nexus 5X in June when the price dropped. But looking at my MotoX since then reminds me it's otherwise a better phone imho (VoLTE works fine for me on TMo).
Question: I assume you had to unlock your bootloader to root and run CM ? If so, can you relock in that state? I had to unroot and flash stock multiple times before I was finally able to relock... I could be completely wrong, but I would think the benefit of timely, monthly security updates is outweighed by an unlocked bootloader and root access?
According to a twitter reply from Moto Support, they ditched even the quarterly security update.
" We're implementing essential patches.As new security issues emerge, we will evaluate them and update your phone as needed.-Maya"
Evaluating, means they may or may not release security patches so do not hold your breath for an August updated. Yet, Moto Support on twitter was very quick to reply the first inquiry. I encourage everyone to contact them with questions @Moto_Support Let them know or demands!