I was listening to Koush Dutta (developer of ClockworkMod, All Cast, etc.) on All About Android podcast and he talked about why external SD cards are bad and why they're going away. Some of the things he brought out are:
- There's no standard API to access the external SD card in Android. He says that each device does it a little differently and it's a nightmare for developers to work with external SD cards.
- The device is certified by Google before being sold. When an SD card is inserted the user is basically taking a certified device and introducing an uncontrolled storage media. People often buy cheap SD cards that aren't capable of performing up to the level of certification for that device.
- When users buy a slow SD card and it doesn't perform well they complain to the app developer and put a bunch of 1-star reviews on their app. The developer is frustrated because it's a situation outside of their control and they're getting slammed for it.
Basically, he said, both the device manufacturers, Google, and app developers dislike the external SD card. Koush predicted that external SD cards will eventually go away completely.
Well why don't we just start a SDCard certification for google and throw a G stamp on the packages to let us know they can be used on devices?
There are solutions to this problem.
SlimJ87D said:
Well why don't we just start a SDCard certification for google and throw a G stamp on the packages to let us know they can be used on devices?
There are solutions to this problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Koush compared the SD card to the DVD/CD drive. People hesitated to buy ultrabook PCs at first because they had optical drive. Many laptops no longer have a optical drive. He said it would just be a matter of time before external SD cards will also go away.
Of course a developer is going to go for the simplest and best solution for them. They aren't being charged $50-100 per move between 16<>32<>64GB the way we are. Nor do they get a monthly bill from their wireless carrier for data when stuff's stored in the cloud. If Google wasn't so hell bent on pushing people toward the(ir) cloud I'd imagine they'd be able to come up with a process and standard to accommodate removable storage. Then, if manufacturers and third party devs followed that standard they wouldn't be getting complaints from users. Those that didn't follow the standard would deserve the complaints they got. Technology is a tough and complex business. Somehow on the PC side Apple and MS have figured out how to manage third party peripherals so if Google had the will I'd assume they'd find the way. Taking something of value away from the consumer in the name of "it's better for them;" especially when the cost and loss of convenience is so great is frankly BS.
P.S. - Removable Android storage has been around since 2010 when the SGS1/i9000 was released. Why is it suddenly a problem? Especially one that can't be addressed by a company with Google's resources?
Barry,
You bring up good points. Here's how'd I'd answer this...
On a PC it's different. Removable storage is generally used for transfer of data. People don't put apps on an external SD card and run them from there. They use an internal disk drive for apps. Why? Because they have a lot of internal disk. Yes, external storage is used for storing movies.
On a phone or tablet people are trying to use an external SD card as an extension of the internal storage. It's not meant to be used as such. It's a transfer medium or video storage medium. And, that's exactly the direction it's going.
I don't think that cloud services are driving this decision. After all, cloud connections are considerably slower than an SD card. And, if one wants to connect external data for file transfers there will still be OTG connections. I think that this will force manufacturers to increase internal memory. Look for 128Gig and 256Gig internal memory in the future. Once that happens people will forget about external SD cards.
TabGuy said:
Koush compared the SD card to the DVD/CD drive. People hesitated to buy ultrabook PCs at first because they had optical drive. Many laptops no longer have a optical drive. He said it would just be a matter of time before external SD cards will also go away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CD and DVD drives are a pain to write to. Our laptops still have USB ports and everyone I know use Flash drives and External HDD to move files around.
Until
1. Internet is extremely fast almost anywhere you go.
2. Internet is unlimited again.
3. Internet is like how it is in Japan
I don't see how we can rely on just our phones and cloud storage. It is something we are moving forward to but not something that should happen anytime soon.
I love the SD card slot as well as many others. If it really is a problem, Google should start making certified SD specs and placing a seal of approval on them to ease for developers and consumers.
If they need to invent some kind of new type of security or partitioning on these SD cards, then feel free to do so also.
I don't think taking away the SD card is a solution for both parties, it's just a solution for a developer and headache for the consumer. If a tiny bit of research is done, it can be a win win for both parties and Android will have something Apple doesn't.
But what do I know? I'm just a ME, not a CE or CS.
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
Well if they wish them to go then start offering higher storage amounts. Tablets and phones shouldn't even have 16gb as an option. Make it 32 and higher... I wish this tablet had 128gb! At least Apple is offering a solution not just SD cards are bad... And the cloud isn't viable for most.
Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We as the consumer have the power to push for what we want.
HTC didn't support SD cards, but guess what, the SGS3 and 4 sold well and a lot of people said that the SD card was the selling factor to them, so now both Samsung and HTC both have SD cards.
If Samsung and HTC recognize it as a selling point, they will implement them one way or the other. I don't actually believe the "We can complain all we want but external card support is going away."
I don't really need to move apps to it anyways, I just need to keep my books, documents and music on there. That does not' affect the system.
TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not as long as Samsung, the largest purveyor of Android devices, keep including them. HTC caved and added an SD card to the M8 as did LG with their refresh of G Pro. Every Android tablet and the majority of Android phones (by market share) have it. The majority of those that don't are Google influenced (EG: Nexus and Motorola). They'll "go away" when Samsung stops supporting them. And ironically while one faction is trying to kill them another is making them bigger (128GB) and faster.
And it looks like the LG G3 will include an SD option for those outside Korea this time around so the trend continues.
Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
BarryH_GEG said:
Not as long as Samsung, the largest purveyor of Android devices, keep including them. HTC caved and added an SD card to the M8 as did LG with their refresh of G Pro. Every Android tablet and the majority of Android phones (by market share) have it. The majority of those that don't are Google influenced (EG: Nexus and Motorola). They'll "go away" when Samsung stops supporting them. And ironically while one faction is trying to kill them another is making them bigger (128GB) and faster.
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Click to collapse
Berry, you and I are on the exact same page.
I understand what the OP is trying to say though, but this is something we have to see play out in the long run. There is no definite answer, do you agree?
SlimJ87D said:
Berry, you and I are on the exact same page.
I understand what the OP is trying to say though, but this is something we have to see play out in the long run. There is no definite answer, do you agree?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's who the death of external storage would benefit:
Developers - their lives become simpler
Wireless carriers - they'll sell more data
Device Manufacturers - they'll sell more $50/100 storage step-ups
NAND Manufacturers (of which Samsung's one) - they'll sell bigger more profitable NAND modules
Google - they'll have more data to monetize as it passes to/from the cloud and can analyze and map what's in a user's Google cloud to do even more profiling to generate even more ad revenue
Here's who loses:
Us
SD Memory Card Manufacturers
If Samsung wanted to sell more memory step-ups they could have followed Google's lead with Nexus/Motorola and joined HTC and others that didn't provide external storage. For whatever reason they chose to stick with the(ir) status quo and more of their competitors seem to be adding external storage support than going the other way. The new Tab4 starts at 8GB of storage to keep the price down. With the OS you could probably store five pictures and a 30 minute TV show before storage was maxed out. Skimpy storage with expansion options actually helps lower the average selling price. So unless Samsung has a change of heart about external storage I don't see anything changing in the near future. Even If all other manufacturers abandoned it with Samsung's market share the majority of devices sold would still include it. So, at least to me, it appears the future of external storage depends more on Samsung than Google or a bunch of lazy developers.
The restrictions on the SD card have been in Android for a while. Samsung had made the one line change to get around the restrictions. However, in KitKat, probably with pressure from Google, they've removed that one line change that permits all apps to read/write to anywhere on the SD card. While 90% of consumers won't notice -- they only use external SD cards for movies and music -- this is a step in the direction of eliminating external SD cards by Samsung. Or, at least limiting them to what 90% of consumers use it for. Eventually, I believe, they'll eliminate them just as most others have.
TabGuy said:
The restrictions on the SD card have been in Android for a while. Samsung had made the one line change to get around the restrictions. However, in KitKat, probably with pressure from Google, they've removed that one line change that permits all apps to read/write to anywhere on the SD card. While 90% of consumers won't notice -- they only use external SD cards for movies and music -- this is a step in the direction of eliminating external SD cards by Samsung. Or, at least limiting them to what 90% of consumers use it for. Eventually, I believe, they'll eliminate them just as most others have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. It was Google who made the one line change in Android specifically starting with API 19 in 4.4. From Google...
External Storage Technical Information
Android supports devices with external storage, which is defined to be a case-insensitive filesystem with immutable POSIX permission classes and modes. External storage can be provided by physical media (such as an SD card), or by exposing a portion of internal storage through an emulation layer. Devices may contain multiple instances of external storage.
Access to external storage is protected by various Android permissions. Starting in Android 1.0, write access is protected with the WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission. Starting in Android 4.1, read access is protected with the READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission.
Starting in Android 4.4, the owner, group and modes of files on external storage devices are now synthesized based on directory structure. This enables apps to manage their package-specific directories on external storage without requiring they hold the broad WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission. For example, the app with package name com.example.foo can now freely access Android/data/com.example.foo/ on external storage devices with no permissions. These synthesized permissions are accomplished by wrapping raw storage devices in a FUSE daemon.
Since external storage offers minimal protection for stored data, system code should not store sensitive data on external storage. Specifically, configuration and log files should only be stored on internal storage where they can be effectively protected.
http://source.android.com/devices/tech/storage/index.html​
Here's some other things to ponder...
If external storage was killed tomorrow it'll be years before Android and developers can stop supporting it. What's supposed to happen to existing device owners with low amounts of internal storage and tons stored on their external SD cards? FYI, there were 900M Android devices in service in 2013.
Now that we're all being marketed in to the "must have" status of 4K video, where's it going to be stored? Uploading, downloading, and streaming 1GB+ 4K videos via a cloud will certainly make the wireless companies and DropBox happy.
The bottom line is that no matter where any of us stand if there's a progression away from external storage it will take years.
I'm not sure of the reasoning behind this move to remove external storage - yet I doubt it is security. They are still utilizing EXFat or Fat32 for the file system on these cards it would be simple enough to use ext3, ext4 or a slew of other options.
They really are not considering the user when doing this options. The rural consumers where internet has caps and current cell phone plans where you need to mortgage the house to pay your cell phone bill because you only have one option. It would be nice if there was cable internet access available - would even settle for DSL.
With the use of external storage moving/recovering from a failed device to new device is so much quicker and easier to accomplish. There is no worries if you will hit your caps while trying to recover. Spending more time in locations that do not have service is a bit easier as I can have more movies/music/documents with external storage.
The loss is becoming annoying and will end with the device being rooted to gain back the features that were purchased in the device to begin with.
quite a few of us with windows tablets utilize the option of installing applications on external drives all the time. windows tablets generally come with the same amount of storage as an android tablet and since window full apps are far bigger than mobile apps an external option is almost required. its a pain trying to launch rust from my t100's sdcard, but at least I have the option to do it. and with my 700t I can crack it open a install a larger msata if needed. i think most of the higher end windows tablets have upgradeable drives... at the cost of loosing warranty however.
TabGuy said:
Barry,
You bring up good points. Here's how'd I'd answer this...
On a PC it's different. Removable storage is generally used for transfer of data. People don't put apps on an external SD card and run them from there. They use an internal disk drive for apps. Why? Because they have a lot of internal disk. Yes, external storage is used for storing movies.
On a phone or tablet people are trying to use an external SD card as an extension of the internal storage. It's not meant to be used as such. It's a transfer medium or video storage medium. And, that's exactly the direction it's going.
I don't think that cloud services are driving this decision. After all, cloud connections are considerably slower than an SD card. And, if one wants to connect external data for file transfers there will still be OTG connections. I think that this will force manufacturers to increase internal memory. Look for 128Gig and 256Gig internal memory in the future. Once that happens people will forget about external SD cards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are forgetting that the voice of the customer is a powerful business tool. If we avoid the devices that do not have expandable storage (external cards), then the device manufacturers will continue to make devices with expandable storage. I for one will not even consider a device that does not have expandable storage. I will just keep my old devices, and when they die I will be done.
The more people that are not willing to submit, the louder our collective voices. Those telling us to "bend over and enjoy it" are part of the problem.
Here's an idea -- if developers are having such problems supporting external storage with their apps then..uh..don't. Just clearly state that in the description of your app, don't support it, and there isn't a problem. But taking away external storage options from people who want to put large movie files on their devices, or record videos or still pics to an external SD card rather than internal memory is just stupid and going to make a lot of people unhappy. All these new phones are being advertised as camera replacements...how many cameras have you seen that only have internal memory? Oops.
If there's ever a day that all Android phones don't support external storage, then that will be the day that I no longer buy a $400 phone under contract every two years. Instead, I'll be buying the $0.99 special that will do voice/SMS, and then I'll abuse the crap out of the data plan by tethering it to a real device. And if there's ever a day that Android tablets don't have external storage, that will be the day that I go back to a ultrabook or (gasp) a Windows tablet. If the industry wants to shoot themselves in the foot, well, there have been larger companies/industries who have failed because of equally stupid decisions (cough cough...Blackberry...cough...Palm...cough cough).
WJThomas said:
You are forgetting that the voice of the customer is a powerful business tool. If we avoid the devices that do not have expandable storage (external cards), then the device manufacturers will continue to make devices with expandable storage. I for one will not even consider a device that does not have expandable storage. I will just keep my old devices, and when they die I will be done.
The more people that are not willing to submit, the louder our collective voices. Those telling us to "bend over and enjoy it" are part of the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you on every point.
...
Related
Ok so we have a incredible here in the office and the user is kinda let down about compatibility with music devices. And just wanted to make anyone aware of the issue for consideration.
He went from his iPhone to Droid and was able to mount phones in the Cadillac system. You can hook up and USB 1TB drive the whole nine very compatible.
The problem that lies with the incredible is that it mounts two cards at once.
The paths:
/sdcard
/emmc
This causes most devices to freak out except a computer OS and to top it off developers apps are bug-in out and having storage issues which you can find on an android thread from google.
just some food for thought
Yeah, I've experienced this...many apps that save to SD get cranky when trying to save on the Incredible (due to being internal RAM). I talked to a couple of developers...apparently there's no method available in the SDK to write to internal memory yet.
So head over to newegg\bestbuy\amazon and pick up your 32GB SD card
tired of syncing phone to google to live to windows 7 for my calendar and contacts, then using windows for my daily use, but needing linux to modify, compile and decompile android apps and what not. would like to stream line my life a little.
my main concerns are bluetooth, navigation and media/sd card.
i use a jabra sp700 in car bluetooth device for phone and media while driving. how well does the focus connect and remember bt devices? my current phone, i have to switch on bt, wait like 1 minute, then switch on my bt device, otherwise, it won't connect for some odd reason.
navigation, i see that bing has navigation now, however, every video and review i've seen is it's just the top down view, which is ok, however, it also looks as though everyone is zoomed way out. can you zoom in more to see/read cross roads? is there works (or does anyone know of any upcoming updates) for a true turn by turn navigation like google's navigation?
sd card, i see the approved list, but i have an HP 8gb card, not that i care if i could use it or not since the focus has 8gb internal and i've never needed more than 7gb on my phone. however, can you use both the internal memory and sd card at the same time? ie have some stuff internal and some external?
in call volume? how is it? not really concerned with quality since i grew up in a time with rotary dial phones. just need it loud enough to hear in louder than normal areas.
oh, and apps. my past experience with windows phones was that there were no decent apps for free. hows that with wp7? right now i have angrybirds and pulse news reader, which are the apps i used most throughout the day (yes, i know no ab on wp7 yet). but are there other apps that are worth using that are free?
photos, current phone has 8.1mp camera that takes decent photos as long as lighting is perfect. how's the quality of the focus'?
About navigation,
I think there is a turn by turn Nav App called A to B, still kind of basic, but usable.
Bing map is detailed in US, you can see the crossroads.
About SD card,
There is no guarentee unless you test it. And once the SD card is integrated into the internal storange, currently the only way to format it is to use a Nokia phone.
Call volume is fine for me. Camera is also fine, LED flash is present this time.
Most games are not free, usually 2-6USD. Other than that there are many free decent News apps.
when you say integrated as in the sd card, does that mean if i put in an 8gb card, i would have 16gb? or 8gb total?
svtfmook said:
when you say integrated as in the sd card, does that mean if i put in an 8gb card, i would have 16gb? or 8gb total?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are going to get 16G.
If you put the SD card into the phone, the card will be part of the internal storange and you cannot different the original storange and your SDcard inside the system.
I picked up a gtab and want to use it while on vacation or backup the photos from my SLR's compactflash memory cards to a portable hard drive. Is this possible?
Basically it would be the usb adapter, then USB hub, with a compactflash (or SD) memory card reader and usb hdd off of it.
Anyone who has tried this, can you comment on the speed of transfer? The RAW images are around 30mb each and I have a 16gb and 2x 8gb memory cards.
Here's my method... I have a Canon 40D.
1. Like it or not the world revolves around SD, not Compact Flash. So, don't use Compact Flash, use SD memory. Buy an adapter here and then you need only ever use SD cards going forward.
2. You can load your photos onto your TAB using Samsung's USB adapter for the TAB. Plug in an USB based SD card reader into the TAB and suck all the pictures off the SD card.
3. Get a Microsoft Live account. It's free. Along with the Microsoft Live account you get a free 25GB "Sky Drive" to store whatever you want.
4. Go to the marketplace and search for Sky Drive. There are a couple of apps there that will let you move files from your tab to the Sky Drive.
If you need more than 25GB of space then you can do this to free up space on the Sky Drive...
1. Put Microsoft Live on one of the computers in your home.
2. Put the free version of Logmein on your home PC.
3. Buy and install Logmein Ignition for the Tab.
4. Log into your home computer from the Tab via Logmein and move the files from the Sky Drive to your home PC.
You might be able to create a script to move the files from Sky Drive to the PC automatically, thus saving you the purchase of Logmein Ignition.
I am a Pro, and I wish the Pro world revolved around SD, but current generation Nikons are all CF.
Having said that, I have read some people being able to mount portable HDDs with rooted Transformer and Iconia and have access to the full capacity of the drive. But, they also have a full USB port built in.
The Market App is: https://market.android.com/details?id=au.dach.drivemount
TabGuy said:
1. Like it or not the world revolves around SD, not Compact Flash. So, don't use Compact Flash
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stopped reading after this. ALL Pro bodies use compact flash. They have higher capacities, and are more resilient to damage than SD. This will never change. Anyone saying SD is better than CF doesn't know their Aperture size from their shutter speed.
evanrich said:
I stopped reading after this. ALL Pro bodies use compact flash. They have higher capacities, and are more resilient to damage than SD. This will never change. Anyone saying SD is better than CF doesn't know their Aperture size from their shutter speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct, I'm not a pro photographer. However, I've shot over 40,000 photos on my 40D ALL on SD without ever a single SD failure. I'd say that's a pretty good track record.
The world does revolve around SD. It's the vast majority and the most compatible. It rules the market the way Windows rules the PC operating systems.
Is it better? I don't know. I didn't say one way or the other. To paraphrase your post: A person that thinks I said that SD was better than Compact Flash doesn't know their verbs from their nouns.
It's simply more convenient, cheaper, and in almost all cases just as safe. Maybe, back in the early days of SD it was prone to more failure but living in the past is no way to be successful in the future.
For the time being I can't move away from compactflash. When I get a new camera in a few years, I'll see what camera floats my boat then. Please keep this on compactflash since that's what I have now Although, I do appreciate the suggestions. I am not a "pro" photographer (actually an engineer). But, it is one of my favorite hobbies.
When I travel to other countries, I usually either don't have access to wifi or I don't have access to fast enough wifi to upload the pictures to a cloud drive. I really need to be able to plug in the card reader AND the hdd at once (since the gtab doesn't have enough internal space for my pic backups). I haven't seen anyone post in the forums yet that they confirmed you can access 2 drives (reader and hdd) simultaneously to copy between then
If I can find a usb adapter at best buy and a powered hub I'll try it. Supposed I can take them back if it doesn't work. Just hoping someone already tried it and could tell me which hub/cardreader/etc to get to save some hassle of swapping out a few hubs/card readers.
TabGuy said:
You are correct, I'm not a pro photographer. However, I've shot over 40,000 photos on my 40D ALL on SD without ever a single SD failure. I'd say that's a pretty good track record.
The world does revolve around SD. It's the vast majority and the most compatible. It rules the market the way Windows rules the PC operating systems.
Is it better? I don't know. I didn't say one way or the other. To paraphrase your post: A person that thinks I said that SD was better than Compact Flash doesn't know their verbs from their nouns.
It's simply more convenient, cheaper, and in almost all cases just as safe. Maybe, back in the early days of SD it was prone to more failure but living in the past is no way to be successful in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't implying SD cards would fail, as I have an SD card in my pocket camera I use when I don't want to take a Large Body/Lens set with me. I wasn't necessarily implying that SD cards fail, more that due to their thinness, they could snap, warp, etc. Also, as CF cards have a much more rigid body, they're more resilient in a disaster case. Ever tossed a memory card through the washer/Dryer? Run over it with a car? CF cards can stand a lot of abuse.
The one nice feature of SD cards that I wish CF cards had is the write protect switch. I have a memory card holder for my CF cards that has colored tabs you can use to tell if they're full or not, but a Write protect switch would be kinda nice.
A few years ago, SD cards were extremely expensive, compared to CF for GB to GB comparison. Today, the price gap is much much narrower, in some cases SD is cheaper than CF (although usually slower in terms of read/write speeds)
Both formats have their place. I don't discount SD, nor do i imply you're wrong in any way for using them, as I have a number of devices that use them, but CF also has it's place, in the professional world where photographers require the utmost performance and reliability from their memory devices.
On a side note, my company produces industrialized standalone computers that are remotely deployed on telephone and light poles in Pakistan to collect RFID tags on shipments bound for Afghanistan. These devices run solely on CF cards as well due to their durability.
adamjt said:
I picked up a gtab and want to use it while on vacation or backup the photos from my SLR's compactflash memory cards to a portable hard drive. Is this possible?
Basically it would be the usb adapter, then USB hub, with a compactflash (or SD) memory card reader and usb hdd off of it.
Anyone who has tried this, can you comment on the speed of transfer? The RAW images are around 30mb each and I have a 16gb and 2x 8gb memory cards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
30MB! You must have 5DII, 1DMKx or D3X? Anywho, like mentioned, the best bet would try a usb hub
adamjt said:
I picked up a gtab and want to use it while on vacation or backup the photos from my SLR's compactflash memory cards to a portable hard drive. Is this possible?
Basically it would be the usb adapter, then USB hub, with a compactflash (or SD) memory card reader and usb hdd off of it.
Anyone who has tried this, can you comment on the speed of transfer? The RAW images are around 30mb each and I have a 16gb and 2x 8gb memory cards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'd have probably been better off buying one of those portable image transfer drives...they're made for this exact purpose. Take a memory card, plug it in, hit copy. They're only like 100-150 or so, much cheaper than a tablet.
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-MSV-01-Coolwalker-Digital-Storage/dp/B0006283AG
http://www.digitalfoci.com/media_buddy_selection.html
http://www.amazon.com/PicPac-Memory-Reader-Storage-7632/dp/B003QP49NA/ref=dp_cp_ob_p_title_2
I have the old memory card from my HTC Trophy, as it stands before WP8 you needed to find a Nokia Symbian device to format it. My Question is will the WP8 devices that have an SD card slot be able to format them also?
Thanks!
I posted in Win8 instead of WP8, sorry .. please delete
You don't specifically need a Symbian device, that's just typically the easiest way to find a SD cardreader device that implements the full SD spec, including the 'S' (Secure) part.
Win8 won't do any good here one way or the other, it's about your hardware and your drivers. Windows drivers tend to not include any support for that feature.
^ absolutely, you tend to find only some hardware that will support the full SD card spec, I spoke to the folk who look after the spec ages ago and they said that the ability to do it has bee there for years, but many SD card manufactures use the secure storage area to actually run programs to help speed up the cards, wiping that area could potentially reduce the random and/or sequential read speeds, sp its not something they have pushed for, as foe software doing it, there's no excuse other than no one has developed it yet
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I am reading up about optimizing of SSD drives and I'm seeing that Windows 8 is supposed to be pretty good with automatically deciding whether to optimize or defragment drives based on what they are (SSD vs HDD). But I have a problem. I just bought an SSD but under the Optimization menu it is showing up as a Hard Drive.
It's a brand new Samsung 840 EVO 500GB and I'm going to be using it solely for music and movies as an external drive. I also bought an Anker external SATA III to USB 3.0 enclosure. I have the drive recognized and everything under the File Explorer but I'm just a little nervous that it's listed as a Hard Drive under the Optimization menu. How can I get Windows to see that it's in fact an SSD?
Hmm. Leaving aside the fact that "solely for music and movies" is an absurdly pointless waste of an SSD (those are large, contiguous, non-latency-sensitive, moderate-to-low bandwidth files; in other words they are everything that a traditional magnetic disk is good at and an SSD is not) I would guess that the issue lies in the SATA3-USB3 conversion. If there's any drivers available for that enclosure specifically, you could try installing them (though they really ought to have installed automatically). Beyond that... does Windows even schedule automatic "optimization" of removable drives (presumably it *does* see your drive as removable)?
If I were looking for a portable media drive, I'd frankly just return that one and use the money to buy a traditional 2.5" HDD with 2-4x the storage capacity. There's literally not a single reason I can think of to use an SSD there unless you plan on dropping the drive a lot while it's in use (modern laptop drives will lock their heads if they sense a sudden drop, so even there the SSD has only a small advantage). Magnetic storage will give you much better capacity and probably last longer, too.
I got the SSD on a really good sale and I'm definitely not returning it, the price I paid for it was absolutely bonkers and I'd be foolish to return it. I figured I'd buy it because I never know when I'm going to see it for the cheap again. I got it for 150 bucks CAD. So when I get a bigger drive in the future I will have an SSD
The software that came with the SSD for some reason won't install and the Samsung software won't recognize the SSD. Windows saw it right away as a portable media drive and I went into disk management, created an MBR volume and formatted it under NTFS. This was the only solution because many other users of this SSD have had the same problems as me - it straight up won't be recognized by the software, presumably probably because of the USB 3 connection. That's ok though because the software is optional. This was suggested as a solution and it works perfectly, now I'm just worried about the drive being falsely defragmented by Windows.
Ah. Well, you could try installing the software using Compatibility Mode (maybe try Win7 first?) but it sounds like, whether or not the drive is in fact a great deal, it has lousy firmware. Unless you can flash an update to it that fixes the problem, your best bet would simply be to try making sure Windows never attempts to "optimize" the drive.
Of course, unless you remove or edit the files on there, there won't be any fragmentation anyhow. So attempting defrag probably wouldn't do anything in any case. Similarly, if you aren't deleting files then you don't need to TRIM their data, so the usual optimizations for SSDs don't matter much either. You might want to see if you can disable access-time updating for the drive though, as that's very wasteful on an SSD (you can globally disable access timestamps using fsutil, but I don't know if you can do so for a single drive on Windows).