So I'm a tad confused... so allow for this question please. The GSM counterparts of the galaxy s had 8-16gb of internal memory thanks to internal SDcards - the Samsung Fascinate and I believe its the same with any cdma versions use 2gb of internal storage. There was a forum post I read somewhere that there was a rumor that this was because it was NAND flash memory and not an internal memory card. However, theres obviously a 'lag fix' for the fascinate and the only reason we would need a lag fix (afaik) is if it were infact still an internal SDcard running the slower samsung partition and not ext3 or 4. If this is the case, why was the internal memory limited to 2gb instead of 8gb? Any answers would be greatly appreciated and thank you for your time to answer, in advance.
I would also like to know if this "internal" memory is up-gradable. If it is a removeable SD card, can we replace with a larger one? For file sharing and things of that nature my Fascinate is harder to deal with than my friends Vibrants. They can transfer a movie lets say from their SD card to their phone, and then transfer to my SD card. I cannot obviously do this due to the lack of phone memory. I have tried to take mine apart to see if there is an internal memory card, but was afraid to dig any deeper into the hardware. Once the screws were removed the phone was not cooperating with the dissassembly. I didn't want to start forcing stuff and break something. Any ideas??
there is not a removable SD card of any type inside your phone. No manufacturer would sacrifice the internal space or spend the money to include an internal card slot.
There are however cases where some manufacturers have chosen to utilize an SD memory chip soldered to the board. You can bet this is done for cost reasons.
Martian21
I was listening to Koush Dutta (developer of ClockworkMod, All Cast, etc.) on All About Android podcast and he talked about why external SD cards are bad and why they're going away. Some of the things he brought out are:
- There's no standard API to access the external SD card in Android. He says that each device does it a little differently and it's a nightmare for developers to work with external SD cards.
- The device is certified by Google before being sold. When an SD card is inserted the user is basically taking a certified device and introducing an uncontrolled storage media. People often buy cheap SD cards that aren't capable of performing up to the level of certification for that device.
- When users buy a slow SD card and it doesn't perform well they complain to the app developer and put a bunch of 1-star reviews on their app. The developer is frustrated because it's a situation outside of their control and they're getting slammed for it.
Basically, he said, both the device manufacturers, Google, and app developers dislike the external SD card. Koush predicted that external SD cards will eventually go away completely.
Well why don't we just start a SDCard certification for google and throw a G stamp on the packages to let us know they can be used on devices?
There are solutions to this problem.
SlimJ87D said:
Well why don't we just start a SDCard certification for google and throw a G stamp on the packages to let us know they can be used on devices?
There are solutions to this problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Koush compared the SD card to the DVD/CD drive. People hesitated to buy ultrabook PCs at first because they had optical drive. Many laptops no longer have a optical drive. He said it would just be a matter of time before external SD cards will also go away.
Of course a developer is going to go for the simplest and best solution for them. They aren't being charged $50-100 per move between 16<>32<>64GB the way we are. Nor do they get a monthly bill from their wireless carrier for data when stuff's stored in the cloud. If Google wasn't so hell bent on pushing people toward the(ir) cloud I'd imagine they'd be able to come up with a process and standard to accommodate removable storage. Then, if manufacturers and third party devs followed that standard they wouldn't be getting complaints from users. Those that didn't follow the standard would deserve the complaints they got. Technology is a tough and complex business. Somehow on the PC side Apple and MS have figured out how to manage third party peripherals so if Google had the will I'd assume they'd find the way. Taking something of value away from the consumer in the name of "it's better for them;" especially when the cost and loss of convenience is so great is frankly BS.
P.S. - Removable Android storage has been around since 2010 when the SGS1/i9000 was released. Why is it suddenly a problem? Especially one that can't be addressed by a company with Google's resources?
Barry,
You bring up good points. Here's how'd I'd answer this...
On a PC it's different. Removable storage is generally used for transfer of data. People don't put apps on an external SD card and run them from there. They use an internal disk drive for apps. Why? Because they have a lot of internal disk. Yes, external storage is used for storing movies.
On a phone or tablet people are trying to use an external SD card as an extension of the internal storage. It's not meant to be used as such. It's a transfer medium or video storage medium. And, that's exactly the direction it's going.
I don't think that cloud services are driving this decision. After all, cloud connections are considerably slower than an SD card. And, if one wants to connect external data for file transfers there will still be OTG connections. I think that this will force manufacturers to increase internal memory. Look for 128Gig and 256Gig internal memory in the future. Once that happens people will forget about external SD cards.
TabGuy said:
Koush compared the SD card to the DVD/CD drive. People hesitated to buy ultrabook PCs at first because they had optical drive. Many laptops no longer have a optical drive. He said it would just be a matter of time before external SD cards will also go away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CD and DVD drives are a pain to write to. Our laptops still have USB ports and everyone I know use Flash drives and External HDD to move files around.
Until
1. Internet is extremely fast almost anywhere you go.
2. Internet is unlimited again.
3. Internet is like how it is in Japan
I don't see how we can rely on just our phones and cloud storage. It is something we are moving forward to but not something that should happen anytime soon.
I love the SD card slot as well as many others. If it really is a problem, Google should start making certified SD specs and placing a seal of approval on them to ease for developers and consumers.
If they need to invent some kind of new type of security or partitioning on these SD cards, then feel free to do so also.
I don't think taking away the SD card is a solution for both parties, it's just a solution for a developer and headache for the consumer. If a tiny bit of research is done, it can be a win win for both parties and Android will have something Apple doesn't.
But what do I know? I'm just a ME, not a CE or CS.
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
Well if they wish them to go then start offering higher storage amounts. Tablets and phones shouldn't even have 16gb as an option. Make it 32 and higher... I wish this tablet had 128gb! At least Apple is offering a solution not just SD cards are bad... And the cloud isn't viable for most.
Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We as the consumer have the power to push for what we want.
HTC didn't support SD cards, but guess what, the SGS3 and 4 sold well and a lot of people said that the SD card was the selling factor to them, so now both Samsung and HTC both have SD cards.
If Samsung and HTC recognize it as a selling point, they will implement them one way or the other. I don't actually believe the "We can complain all we want but external card support is going away."
I don't really need to move apps to it anyways, I just need to keep my books, documents and music on there. That does not' affect the system.
TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not as long as Samsung, the largest purveyor of Android devices, keep including them. HTC caved and added an SD card to the M8 as did LG with their refresh of G Pro. Every Android tablet and the majority of Android phones (by market share) have it. The majority of those that don't are Google influenced (EG: Nexus and Motorola). They'll "go away" when Samsung stops supporting them. And ironically while one faction is trying to kill them another is making them bigger (128GB) and faster.
And it looks like the LG G3 will include an SD option for those outside Korea this time around so the trend continues.
Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
BarryH_GEG said:
Not as long as Samsung, the largest purveyor of Android devices, keep including them. HTC caved and added an SD card to the M8 as did LG with their refresh of G Pro. Every Android tablet and the majority of Android phones (by market share) have it. The majority of those that don't are Google influenced (EG: Nexus and Motorola). They'll "go away" when Samsung stops supporting them. And ironically while one faction is trying to kill them another is making them bigger (128GB) and faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Berry, you and I are on the exact same page.
I understand what the OP is trying to say though, but this is something we have to see play out in the long run. There is no definite answer, do you agree?
SlimJ87D said:
Berry, you and I are on the exact same page.
I understand what the OP is trying to say though, but this is something we have to see play out in the long run. There is no definite answer, do you agree?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's who the death of external storage would benefit:
Developers - their lives become simpler
Wireless carriers - they'll sell more data
Device Manufacturers - they'll sell more $50/100 storage step-ups
NAND Manufacturers (of which Samsung's one) - they'll sell bigger more profitable NAND modules
Google - they'll have more data to monetize as it passes to/from the cloud and can analyze and map what's in a user's Google cloud to do even more profiling to generate even more ad revenue
Here's who loses:
Us
SD Memory Card Manufacturers
If Samsung wanted to sell more memory step-ups they could have followed Google's lead with Nexus/Motorola and joined HTC and others that didn't provide external storage. For whatever reason they chose to stick with the(ir) status quo and more of their competitors seem to be adding external storage support than going the other way. The new Tab4 starts at 8GB of storage to keep the price down. With the OS you could probably store five pictures and a 30 minute TV show before storage was maxed out. Skimpy storage with expansion options actually helps lower the average selling price. So unless Samsung has a change of heart about external storage I don't see anything changing in the near future. Even If all other manufacturers abandoned it with Samsung's market share the majority of devices sold would still include it. So, at least to me, it appears the future of external storage depends more on Samsung than Google or a bunch of lazy developers.
The restrictions on the SD card have been in Android for a while. Samsung had made the one line change to get around the restrictions. However, in KitKat, probably with pressure from Google, they've removed that one line change that permits all apps to read/write to anywhere on the SD card. While 90% of consumers won't notice -- they only use external SD cards for movies and music -- this is a step in the direction of eliminating external SD cards by Samsung. Or, at least limiting them to what 90% of consumers use it for. Eventually, I believe, they'll eliminate them just as most others have.
TabGuy said:
The restrictions on the SD card have been in Android for a while. Samsung had made the one line change to get around the restrictions. However, in KitKat, probably with pressure from Google, they've removed that one line change that permits all apps to read/write to anywhere on the SD card. While 90% of consumers won't notice -- they only use external SD cards for movies and music -- this is a step in the direction of eliminating external SD cards by Samsung. Or, at least limiting them to what 90% of consumers use it for. Eventually, I believe, they'll eliminate them just as most others have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. It was Google who made the one line change in Android specifically starting with API 19 in 4.4. From Google...
External Storage Technical Information
Android supports devices with external storage, which is defined to be a case-insensitive filesystem with immutable POSIX permission classes and modes. External storage can be provided by physical media (such as an SD card), or by exposing a portion of internal storage through an emulation layer. Devices may contain multiple instances of external storage.
Access to external storage is protected by various Android permissions. Starting in Android 1.0, write access is protected with the WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission. Starting in Android 4.1, read access is protected with the READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission.
Starting in Android 4.4, the owner, group and modes of files on external storage devices are now synthesized based on directory structure. This enables apps to manage their package-specific directories on external storage without requiring they hold the broad WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission. For example, the app with package name com.example.foo can now freely access Android/data/com.example.foo/ on external storage devices with no permissions. These synthesized permissions are accomplished by wrapping raw storage devices in a FUSE daemon.
Since external storage offers minimal protection for stored data, system code should not store sensitive data on external storage. Specifically, configuration and log files should only be stored on internal storage where they can be effectively protected.
http://source.android.com/devices/tech/storage/index.html​
Here's some other things to ponder...
If external storage was killed tomorrow it'll be years before Android and developers can stop supporting it. What's supposed to happen to existing device owners with low amounts of internal storage and tons stored on their external SD cards? FYI, there were 900M Android devices in service in 2013.
Now that we're all being marketed in to the "must have" status of 4K video, where's it going to be stored? Uploading, downloading, and streaming 1GB+ 4K videos via a cloud will certainly make the wireless companies and DropBox happy.
The bottom line is that no matter where any of us stand if there's a progression away from external storage it will take years.
I'm not sure of the reasoning behind this move to remove external storage - yet I doubt it is security. They are still utilizing EXFat or Fat32 for the file system on these cards it would be simple enough to use ext3, ext4 or a slew of other options.
They really are not considering the user when doing this options. The rural consumers where internet has caps and current cell phone plans where you need to mortgage the house to pay your cell phone bill because you only have one option. It would be nice if there was cable internet access available - would even settle for DSL.
With the use of external storage moving/recovering from a failed device to new device is so much quicker and easier to accomplish. There is no worries if you will hit your caps while trying to recover. Spending more time in locations that do not have service is a bit easier as I can have more movies/music/documents with external storage.
The loss is becoming annoying and will end with the device being rooted to gain back the features that were purchased in the device to begin with.
quite a few of us with windows tablets utilize the option of installing applications on external drives all the time. windows tablets generally come with the same amount of storage as an android tablet and since window full apps are far bigger than mobile apps an external option is almost required. its a pain trying to launch rust from my t100's sdcard, but at least I have the option to do it. and with my 700t I can crack it open a install a larger msata if needed. i think most of the higher end windows tablets have upgradeable drives... at the cost of loosing warranty however.
TabGuy said:
Barry,
You bring up good points. Here's how'd I'd answer this...
On a PC it's different. Removable storage is generally used for transfer of data. People don't put apps on an external SD card and run them from there. They use an internal disk drive for apps. Why? Because they have a lot of internal disk. Yes, external storage is used for storing movies.
On a phone or tablet people are trying to use an external SD card as an extension of the internal storage. It's not meant to be used as such. It's a transfer medium or video storage medium. And, that's exactly the direction it's going.
I don't think that cloud services are driving this decision. After all, cloud connections are considerably slower than an SD card. And, if one wants to connect external data for file transfers there will still be OTG connections. I think that this will force manufacturers to increase internal memory. Look for 128Gig and 256Gig internal memory in the future. Once that happens people will forget about external SD cards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are forgetting that the voice of the customer is a powerful business tool. If we avoid the devices that do not have expandable storage (external cards), then the device manufacturers will continue to make devices with expandable storage. I for one will not even consider a device that does not have expandable storage. I will just keep my old devices, and when they die I will be done.
The more people that are not willing to submit, the louder our collective voices. Those telling us to "bend over and enjoy it" are part of the problem.
Here's an idea -- if developers are having such problems supporting external storage with their apps then..uh..don't. Just clearly state that in the description of your app, don't support it, and there isn't a problem. But taking away external storage options from people who want to put large movie files on their devices, or record videos or still pics to an external SD card rather than internal memory is just stupid and going to make a lot of people unhappy. All these new phones are being advertised as camera replacements...how many cameras have you seen that only have internal memory? Oops.
If there's ever a day that all Android phones don't support external storage, then that will be the day that I no longer buy a $400 phone under contract every two years. Instead, I'll be buying the $0.99 special that will do voice/SMS, and then I'll abuse the crap out of the data plan by tethering it to a real device. And if there's ever a day that Android tablets don't have external storage, that will be the day that I go back to a ultrabook or (gasp) a Windows tablet. If the industry wants to shoot themselves in the foot, well, there have been larger companies/industries who have failed because of equally stupid decisions (cough cough...Blackberry...cough...Palm...cough cough).
WJThomas said:
You are forgetting that the voice of the customer is a powerful business tool. If we avoid the devices that do not have expandable storage (external cards), then the device manufacturers will continue to make devices with expandable storage. I for one will not even consider a device that does not have expandable storage. I will just keep my old devices, and when they die I will be done.
The more people that are not willing to submit, the louder our collective voices. Those telling us to "bend over and enjoy it" are part of the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you on every point.
...
Hello all,
It seems the Axon 7 only has MTP for transferring files to and from your pc.
Is there anyway to activate UMS for this phone?
Googling shows mixed results that are device specific.
Hoping someone knows how to find out... Or maybe we need a custom kernel for this... :/
This explains why it's not available: http://www.howtogeek.com/192732/android-usb-connections-explained-mtp-ptp-and-usb-mass-storage/
dennis96411 said:
This explains why it's not available: http://www.howtogeek.com/192732/android-usb-connections-explained-mtp-ptp-and-usb-mass-storage/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's kind of a bummer because my car doesn't really like MTP. It only seems to recognize any audio files like 1/4 the time.
I Slap Fat Kids said:
That's kind of a bummer because my car doesn't really like MTP. It only seems to recognize any audio files like 1/4 the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MTP is a terrible protocol in practice (nice in theory), but that's what Google went with. The problem with UMS is that the phone has to unmount and give up control, and then the client device has to mount and unmount cleanly. During that time, the phone can't access the storage at all, and there is the potential for things to be unmounted cleanly. Which was a huge problem for the average person when you used to use the SD card to store apps and such, because they would suddenly be unavailable and people would wonder why.
Under MTP, the phone never gives up control of the storage, so you don't have to worry about any of that. It just stinks that it has so many issues and is so slow.
I thought it had something to do with the filesystem used as well, since it's likely that the sdcard partition is formatted as ext4 or f2fs, which are not universally-supported.
The model I have is for a Toyota Rav4. It describes itself as AC83XX (core x4), and is running Android 4.4.4.
It has a lot of quirks, but generally works. However, the 64gb micro SD card keeps losing its "indexing", and my MP3s are not recognized by any media players.
The files are always visible by the ES File Explorer.
I installed an "SD Scanner" utility (this one: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gmail.jerickson314.sdscanner&hl=en), which makes the MP3s visible to Google Play, etc, but every morning/afternoon before/after work, it must be re-scanned, which takes nearly an hour.
Any ideas to solve this issue?
i have same problem.
>64gb micro SD card
Make sure you formatted it as FAT32 and absolutely not ExFat. ExFat is NOT compatible with these android head units. SD Cards larger than 32GB come formatted ExFat out of the box and must be reformatted, and Windows CANNOT format a 64gb card as Fat32, it only allows you to do ExFat using the built in tools. There are some utilities to format 64GB cards as Fat32 but nothing built into Windows. You will have to find something on the net.
Also, there are a TON of fake/counterfeit SD cards out there. This is usually a sign that you have one that is reporting it is bigger than it really is. Apparently they figured out how to make SD cards look like 32GB/64GB cards but they are only like 4GB or 8GB cards, and if you write more than 4gb/8gb to them they get corrupted etc.. Amazon was hit with a ton of fakes recently even name brand cards like Samsung, that look identical to the real thing.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Bewa...-tell-a-counterfeit-from-the-original_id77769
http://www.happybison.com/reviews/how-to-check-and-spot-fake-micro-sd-card-8/
No, it's not fake, it's almost full. And if Windows can't format it Fat32, then it isn't, so might consider that.
That being said, VLC for Android does it's own indexing, and it hasn't lost it...yet. It also indexes way faster than SD Scanner does.
Crossing my fingers this will continue to work; only drawback is it doesn't pick up where it left off after shutting the car off, but I'm not sure ANY play is going to do that.
Hey guys,
I know this topic has been discussed to death here. But the only methods I found were either complicated or odd. I was wondering how I could expand internal storage which is currently 500gb on my Pro to like 4tb. Replacing internal HDD requires tons of Dev work which I know nothing about and connecting a USB external storage to use as internal is kinda weird as there is risk of it getting unplugged and device crashing... Are those the only ways to do it or is there an updated way that I didn't see ?
Well you could add an sd card to it. The pro version has a reader.
The only other way is aside from the ones you mention is setting up a NAS but that would be an external connection....
SD Card is much slower. Plus I need 4tb and am sure that a card of that size doesn't exist yet. As for why, well I got 2.5tb of game ROMs for various emulators that I want to move over... So yeah... Adding external is my only option for now... I guess...