So I read today that apparently it has been known for quite a while that Sailfish OS' "Alien Dalvik" feature will be unavailable on all non-Jolla phones which makes it impossible for those of us who want to install Sailfish on their own devices to use Android applications and need to be locked to the Sailfish native applications.
This is due to Alien Dalvik being proprietary and licensed software from the Myriad Group, thus cannot be bundled with ports of Sailfish OS (that includes the Nexus 4, i9305, Nexus 7 ports). As far as I can see it's sold as well, so installing it on the side like Gapps seems to be out of the question.
Has Jolla mentioned anything about this? All I can find are community members saying Alien Dalvik will be unavailable on ports due to the licensing of the product. Without it, Sailfish OS might suddenly becomes a much less interesting as a whole to many, as the ability to install and run Android applications were one of the key features of a otherwise very interesting OS. Any thoughts or more light to shed on this? Will Sailfish OS users that aren't using Jolla phones be stuck with native applications permanently? Or is this something Jolla will change as the product matures?
It's obviously a "pay to play" situation. To rectify it, Jolla would have to charge users a fee to install Sailfish on 3rd party handsets or violate their TOS with Myriad. I don't see that happening. Maybe if enough users come on board, Myriad will find it attractive to offer a license/apk directly to Sailfish users?
Consistant said:
Will Sailfish OS users that aren't using Jolla phones be stuck with native applications permanently? Or is this something Jolla will change as the product matures?
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Stuck? Really? I think it's a great opportunity for Android developers to start making applications for Sailfish instead of free riding on Android apps. It's open source, open to modifications, fast, smooth & capable. A true mobile Linux OS. There aren't much excuses not to develop for Sailfish.
Arty. said:
There aren't much excuses not to develop for Sailfish.
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Yes, there is. The lack of a larger user base.
I'd love for developers to make apps for Sailfish, but the tiny user base will scare AAA developers away from the platform as they would rather develop for a bigger niche OS like Ubuntu Touch or Firefox OS, Sailfish is rather obscure compared to those. Plus the fact that the native apps are required to be free at this point in time with no form of paid transactions being possible. Most of these AAA developers won't have the same view on open source, especially considering how few applications are open on other platforms.
The alien dalvik was one of the main things that could make Sailfish triumph over other niche mobile operating systems. It was of the key selling points to get people to convert to Sailfish from Android once the porting really starts happening. Otherwise they'll simply ask how big the app store is and once they hear answer is a number with two digits where most of them which are most likely rather lacking in features compared to applications on other platforms will scare people off big time.
The Android VM was one of the huge advantages Sailfish had to attract the niche user base and thus developers to make native apps and now I can see most potential converters sticking with whatever they had making Sailfish DOA together with Firefox OS and Ubuntu Touch. I'd really hate to see that happen.
Consistant said:
Yes, there is. The lack of a larger user base.
I'd love for developers to make apps for Sailfish, but the tiny user base will scare AAA developers away from the platform as they would rather develop for a bigger niche OS like Ubuntu Touch or Firefox OS, Sailfish is rather obscure compared to those. Plus the fact that the native apps are required to be free at this point in time with no form of paid transactions being possible. Most of these AAA developers won't have the same view on open source, especially considering how few applications are open on other platforms.
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And how is Ubuntu touch bigger than Sailfish? Jolla launched and started selling their Sailfish phone way before Canonical. They have a more finished OS than any of these guys. They have all the needed tools to develop. Heck they even made an emulator to test apps. I don't see this being more obscure than others. Unlike Ubuntu's marketting schemes, Sailfish is here & it's happening now.
I agree on the open source part though. I tried to refer to the developers here that mod Android by saying open source.
Consistant said:
The alien dalvik was one of the main things that could make Sailfish triumph over other niche mobile operating systems. It was of the key selling points to get people to convert to Sailfish from Android once the porting really starts happening. Otherwise they'll simply ask how big the app store is and once they hear answer is a number with two digits where most of them which are most likely rather lacking in features compared to applications on other platforms will scare people off big time.
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Will any others have dalvik on their images? Don't think so.
Consistant said:
The Android VM was one of the huge advantages Sailfish had to attract the niche user base and thus developers to make native apps and now I can see most potential converters sticking with whatever they had making Sailfish DOA together with Firefox OS and Ubuntu Touch. I'd really hate to see that happen.
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Me too so instead of saying there aren't any reasons to develop for these OS's we should show that there are.
And time is needed for the large user base. People are always skeptical about new and rather "different" things. Hopefully these players will get more tracktion by time.
Is this final? Without Android Apps no Sailfish for me and many others I guess...
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IceTe said:
Is this final? Without Android Apps no Sailfish for me and many others I guess...
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This has pretty much been set in stone. Jolla are paying Myriad for the licensing per Jolla phone, they can't distribute it for free as it would break their deal and be illegal. You won't be seeing any Alien Dalvik on non-Jolla phones unless a "fix" to make it happen comes around which certainly wouldn't be legal.
The only way I can see Jolla fixing this issue is by having licenses for the Alien Dalvik being sold in the Jolla Store or something similar and that it can be activated through the store. That doesn't seem to be happening soon, unfortunately. Especially considering nothing can be sold in the Jolla Store at this moment in time.
The lack of Alien Dalvik on 3rd party devices is actually a feature to many of us. Having Sailfish on this zooty LG Optimus G i have collecting dust, with no Google nonsense, would finally get me to retire my trusty Nokia N9.
croozah said:
The lack of Alien Dalvik on 3rd party devices is actually a feature to many of us. Having Sailfish on this zooty LG Optimus G i have collecting dust, with no Google nonsense, would finally get me to retire my trusty Nokia N9.
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The lack of such a huge key feature should never be a feature in and of itself, rather having the freedom of choice would be.
Having the option to install the VM or not, just like Google Apps, would solve both the problems. Locking many of the potential converters down to using the current sloppy apps in the Jolla Store would not be an advantage for both sides as less people would convert, thus less developers will make quality native applications which will in turn affect both parties.
Even Carol Chen, one of the core Sailfish OS team members, mentioned in a recent Jolla blog post that over half of her apps on her Jolla smartphone were Android apps which means the native apps certainly aren't cutting it right now for many.
Just to clarify...
Alien dalvik allows sailfish OS users to also install android apps? But without it (licensed software only on jolla phones) it is not possible to install these apps on 3rd party phones. And only sailfish or native apps are available?
If this is the case, at least for me, I would be using sailfish as a secondary to my android. I wouldnt be jumping right in, which means that surely other people would be in the same boat. This is also assuming that a port will be fully functional without alien dalvik on a 3rd party phone?
Kesselaar said:
This is also assuming that a port will be fully functional without alien dalvik on a 3rd party phone?
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It'll be fully functional (although limited to just a handful of Android devices to ensure a relatively reliable/stable experience), there just won't be a compat. layer for Android apps/content. Such a compat. layer could ofc eventually be offered via the store, but that remains to be seen, people need to be pressing Jolla & Myriad about all of that.
It all depends what you use on Android, if its just the standard stuff plus a few big ones such as whatsapp (check out the port) you'll be fine. To me Alien Dalvik is mostly for those niche apps, that turn up and have everyone going crazy for a few days. Like flappy bird, etc etc
Consistant said:
The lack of such a huge key feature should never be a feature in and of itself, rather having the freedom of choice would be.
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Your premise is fundamentally flawed. Alien Dalvik is a licensed, patent-encumbered, proprietary software, therefore having it is not a choice unless you somehow buy it; or steal it. The community cannot distribute it; there is no choice.
As I said, and it may be obtuse to some, but this is a feature. A true Linux-based OS that is mostly/completely F/OSS running on modern high-spec hardware is a huge draw. That there is no Android/Google stuff is an added bonus.
Too bad. I really liked the OS before I read this thread...
Oh well, staying on android untill someone figures out how to build an OS that is written in some kind of C for performance and has a VM to emulate existing apps untill they are developed for the OS natively...
ilans93 said:
Too bad. I really liked the OS before I read this thread...
Oh well, staying on android untill someone figures out how to build an OS that is written in some kind of C for performance and has a VM to emulate existing apps untill they are developed for the OS natively...
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buy a jolla phone?!
only the ports on android phones missing alien dalvik. The jolla phone is able to do that. Also it's a linux based mobile os. Many parts, like in android, are written in c. With QT5 they use a technology like kde desktop.
carepack said:
buy a jolla phone?!
only the ports on android phones missing alien dalvik. The jolla phone is able to do that. Also it's a linux based mobile os. Many parts, like in android, are written in c. With QT5 they use a technology like kde desktop.
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I know, and that's exactly what I like about it.
As for the android phones, I really don't feel the need to upgrade from my galaxy nexus.
I just don't want to see SailfishOS end up like maemo and meego. They were great, but only among us geeks so they didn't become mainstream enough and development stopped (in a way).
If Alien Dalvik could be exported to android hardware then the OS would have a sure future, this way it is uncertain...
ilans93 said:
...If Alien Dalvik could be exported to android hardware then the OS would have a sure future, this way it is uncertain...
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If there are enough adopters of Sailfish on Nexus 4 and Galaxy S3, Myriad may offer a license of their Alien Dalvik to those users... For a few dollars you might be able to "have it all."
RumoredNow said:
If there are enough adopters of Sailfish on Nexus 4 and Galaxy S3, Myriad may offer a license of their Alien Dalvik to those users... For a few dollars you might be able to "have it all."
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What if you can capture the Dalvik RPM from a Jolla phone when downloading from store?
n9 can capture deb from Nokia Store
RumoredNow said:
If there are enough adopters of Sailfish on Nexus 4 and Galaxy S3, Myriad may offer a license of their Alien Dalvik to those users... For a few dollars you might be able to "have it all."
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That would be a dream come true!
flotron said:
What if you can capture the Dalvik RPM from a Jolla phone when downloading from store?
n9 can capture deb from Nokia Store
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Click to collapse
You could, but that's not exactly legal...
I think the answer may be more simple than you all have considered so far. The phone does not come with the Alien Dalvik included it has to be downloaded, no? Maybe Jolla pays based on downloads of the Alien Dalvik from the store and that's why (or one of the reasons why) the store is not enabled yet on this early Alpha release.
edit: OK I just asked if there will be a way for us to purchase a license in the future on IRC and stskeeps said they are not leaving it out as a possibility but basics are first.
So there is hope. I guess they will decide after they see how everything goes. I guess it's one of those company strategy things. Will letting us have Alien Dalvik lead to less apps being developed for Sailfish or more? I think more simply because it will excite developers to get in on the cover actions.
Related
Just wanted your opinions on which dev has the best Onskreen Cornerstone build right now. I have installed both CM9 and Eos i personally prefer Eos' build they are doing a great job with the dev so far. Great job on both roms though. And are there any other roms with OSCS built in these are the only two im aware of.
I can deal with the minor bugs I really couldn't see my TF without OSCS now im spoiled
I'd personally love a completely stock with cornerstone and stock buttons. I like the Asus quick panel and soundset
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I like the Team EOS better.
After using Cornerstone for a day, you cannot imagine life without it. I know the feeling.
jinsoku3g said:
I'd personally love a completely stock with cornerstone and stock buttons. I like the Asus quick panel and soundset
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
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This is pretty much what I'm holding out for, a nice stock rom with cornerstone.
st0nedpenguin said:
This is pretty much what I'm holding out for, a nice stock rom with cornerstone.
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Click to collapse
Which can't happen right now because we ain't got no source code yet.
i flashed back to ARHD to many bugs for me to use as daily (especially now with the dock) waiting for a good solid CS build screen swapping would be cool if they release the source for that (not likely soon)
Here is some important information from the CEO of Onskreen directly to Diane Hackborn of Google, I've not read this on this site, I was directed here after an email with consumer relations with Onskreen while asking if the window-swappng option was going to be re-implemented..their reply was basically "no, and here is why; read this comment" so here is what they said..
(my emphasis)
hansmeet sethi - I am the CEO of Onskreen and felt it was about time we weighed in on the public discussion. To start off with, we have been impressed by the level of discussion on this thread on the topic of compatibility. We take it very seriously and are glad that the rest of the community do as well.
+Dianne Hackborn - Thanks for sharing specific concerns and we can appreciate their gravity and the need for a dialogue. However, outside of the implementation details perhaps some background will help. Onskreen saw an obvious need in the UX of Android on larger screen devices (that is our business after all), and we worked to address that with Cornerstone. During the process, we have invested heavily to respect Android's intentions and compatibility of the Frameworks you helped build. When you get a chance to review the code, you will see that we went out of our way to not introduce app requirements, leverage the patterns already used, and treat running Applications in a way that they are oblivious to the Cornerstone experience. We rejected many features along the way to optimize for compatibility. The result is a product that we are proud of, respects the Android project, that the user and mod communities are excited about, and OEMs love. And frankly, once you use a tablet with multi-tasking there is no going back. We are the first to admit the product is not perfect, but was at a point where we felt comfortable sharing with the community to use, help improve and polish. We see the goal of this conversation as a way to come to an agreement on some of the aspects of Compatibility and deliver multi-tasking on Android.
Now - a few of your concerns:
- Orientation - Good points, and we spent a ton of time thinking through the UX here. Cornerstone adheres to the desired orientation of the Application running in the Main Panel (and rotation of the device). Cornerstone restricts the user from opening an app that won't support all orientations in the Cornerstone panel, so there is not a case where an app running there is forced into an orientation the app developer did not intend to run in (try opening Angry Birds in the Cornerstone and you will see this). There is more here but I will leave it at that for the time being.
- Screen size changes - You point out the complexity of a changing screen size on an app. We agree and this is the reason that swapping panels (applications moving from the main area to the cornerstone or vice versa) was removed from the product. Apps at this point just aren't enforced to consider this, so Cornerstone imposing it on them would be incompatible and we don't (although we all sorely miss the feature). One area we are still considering is the Config of the main app. Logically this should change when the user minimizes/maximizes the Cornerstone, however the implementation is not doing that because of compatibility issues it would introduce. To be fully compliant we are aware that we will may have to remove the ability to minimize/maximize the Cornerstone (we will miss that feature too). Perhaps you have some suggestions here?
- ProcessRecord/ActivityThread Configurations - As you mentioned, while the ActivityStack was refactored out during your exploration, other inherent dependencies on a static Configuration do still exist. Some interesting features could be enabled by expanding this, but we didn't make these changes so that the Cornerstone codebase could more easily be used in customized Android trees of OEMs and others, as well as perhaps in upcoming Android releases.
- CDD Compliance - We take this one very seriously and you bring up good points. However, our intention is that each area (the main panel and cornerstone panels) be designed as CDD compliant sizes. That is not fully the case in the .85 release that was open sourced. As we made the switch to v4.0.3_r1 and the 1280x800 reference device (Xoom), we haven't made all these changes yet. It may require that some of the panels in certain orientations run in a pseudo compatibility mode similar to how the Android OS supports legacy apps already so that their config is CDD compliant and the UX is optimized.
- CTS - One test in CTS calls for any Activity that doesn't have the focus to be moved to the paused state. This is obviously not the case in Cornerstone as Activities do stay resumed when not having the focus and still are visible on the screen. Google could ding Cornerstone for that and in truth they would be technically correct. However this would be silly considering the nature of the test when applied to a real multi-tasked environment. That is not our call however.
In short, we think about the same problems you do and we believe in the product as well as maintaining the integrity of Android applications and devices. You of all people can appreciate the complexity in working with the Android framework in the way we have to get Cornerstone built, and to call it a fork is doing the design and engineering effort that went into it a disservice. We see the point of AOSP and contributions like Cornerstone to create a dialogue, come to agreement and add great features to the platform. To that end, we are more than happy to continue this conversation. Some of us are in the bay area and happy to drop by Google if you prefer.
hansmeet.
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thats pretty cool but i will miss having the features im sure the community will implement our own twist on it though. to bad for the screen swapping though .
on a different note CM9 with cornerstone is moving along quite well a lot more stable ROM can i vote again lol
Cornerstone is just a placeholder for me until Windows 8 is released for tablets.
Definitely switching to Windows 8 unless Google adds to Android a comparable multitasking capability.
Just stock, I like stock ICS on TF101 (after reboot and pc connection issue removed...) and don't see any pro's in any other ROM for me...
Pretty much all of the concessions that they have or are discussing making to cornerstone are quickly removing the reason for having it at all. There are plenty of apps that already are not compatible with many devices and resolutions. Crippling a feature because you "can't" create new app requirements is silly. This is the area where google(and cornerstone) have the potential to destroy apple. As these devices get faster and bigger, you can't stick with the one app at a time paradigm.
I understand google is trying to remove the "fragmentation" but your OS can't evolve if that outweighs everything else.
gottahavit said:
Pretty much all of the concessions that they have or are discussing making to cornerstone are quickly removing the reason for having it at all. There are plenty of apps that already are not compatible with many devices and resolutions. Crippling a feature because you "can't" create new app requirements is silly. This is the area where google(and cornerstone) have the potential to destroy apple. As these devices get faster and bigger, you can't stick with the one app at a time paradigm.
I understand google is trying to remove the "fragmentation" but your OS can't evolve if that outweighs everything else.
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Google will add better multitasking to Android. They have to or they will lose to Windows 8.
Cornerstone is just not Google's answer to multitasking on Android. I bet Google has something better.
horndroid said:
Google will add better multitasking to Android. They have to or they will lose to Windows 8.
Cornerstone is just not Google's answer to multitasking on Android. I bet Google has something better.
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The problem with windows 8 is that a windows tablet will always cost 100 dollars more than the same android tablet. Add to that the fact that you'll have to re-buy all your apps for ARM or Metro and they have a tough battle ahead in the consumer market.
Personally I Find Metro totally annoying on my 17" laptop, I think Microsoft is having an identity crisis with windows 8. The last thing I want on my laptop is forced full screen apps. Honestly Metro is a little to Android(ish) for what I would want on a tablet once they get a little more powerful and have better rez.
EDIT: I should qualify this with the fact that I am a die hard windows fan, I LOVE windows 7, prefer coding for windows over any other OS EVER, and absolutely hate MAC OS.
gottahavit said:
The problem with windows 8 is that a windows tablet will always cost 100 dollars more than the same android tablet. Add to that the fact that you'll have to re-buy all your apps for ARM or Metro and they have a tough battle ahead in the consumer market.
Personally I Find Metro totally annoying on my 17" laptop, I think Microsoft is having an identity crisis with windows 8. The last thing I want on my laptop is forced full screen apps. Honestly Metro is a little to Android(ish) for what I would want on a tablet once they get a little more powerful and have better rez.
EDIT: I should qualify this with the fact that I am a die hard windows fan, I LOVE windows 7, prefer coding for windows over any other OS EVER, and absolutely hate MAC OS.
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I don't care. All that matters is that Windows 8 will motivate Google to add some real multitasking capability to its Android OS. We all know how competitive Google is. They will do it, and it won't be Cornerstone. It will be something better.
horndroid said:
I don't care. All that matters is that Windows 8 will motivate Google to add some real multitasking capability to its Android OS. We all know how competitive Google is. They will do it, and it won't be Cornerstone. It will be something better.
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Click to collapse
Kinda, my point. have you used Windows 8 Multitasking? it looks too much like Honeycomb except they keep apps actually running. This is of course Metro, native apps are still good old windows. This isn't Microsoft putting out something for google to steal or envy, it's Microsoft going "OHHH everybody love android and IOS, they must all want "one app at a time" style OS.
Saw this new OS by Jolla called Sailfish, it is a Linux bases OS that shares the mer core that was used by MeeGo. So far from what I can tell it is going to be completely open source and will be able to run android apps. I just wanted to post this here to see if there would be anyone willing to try and get this onto the G2x. I don't know if it is possible but if it could be done I would be willing to do whatever to help it get done as I think this is a really cool OS with a different UI and real multitasking.
Any information on the OS can be found here: http://jolla.com
Hands on with the OS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?1&v=_c_BqnR_vAM
Reminds me of BB10. Is this Android based?
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
That looks incredible
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Looking into it. I guess I would have to compile from source and go from there.
It looks like the graphic card driver issue might come up again. Hopefully not. I was told to start with this since I have a nexus one.
SDK is here by the way.
Possible ROM? Looks better then jb
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
its actually the MeeGo OS, not android, but it looks so good.
Hi,
i'm very interested in this os. Saw the presentation at the live stream wednesday and follow the developement for a while. Here some things i found. Hope this helps.
It is meego/mer based.
The bridge to android is, that the Appstore of google is ported to sailfish os.
There will be a support for ST Ericsson devices. I'm wondering on which devices it will be ported.
The developers are making commercial to the manufacturers with the statement, that they are able to port the system to any device within three days. So there should be good possobiloties for dev's.
The source Code should be available right now, but i couldn't find it. There is a wiki site on sailfishos.org .
Hope there are some people that will try to port it.
Cheers!
I like what they are doing A LOT. I was organizing the #Slush12 conference and got to see their stuff very well. It's great, amazing IMO! We will also ahve a hack day with them on 1st of December, exploring the Sailfish SDK (check http://sailfishos.org ) so if anyone here wants to come to Finland........ http://mobiledevcamp.fi
Anyways, yeah, it's based on MeeGo/Mer and uses Nemo as the base for GUI - but the UI is completely different. There are also many other things that differ and will differ in the future from Mer base but at the moment there isn't too much in there. And since a device will be launched in Summer 2013 there is still a lot they need to work on. It's going to be open source and it will support a very broad range of CPU's. I might even be able to get it on my old HTC Magic....hmmmmm....gotta see about that. They had dozens of devices there at the event they had put it running on, including N950's, (I think an N9 too), some ST-Ericsson development devices, Raspberry Pi boards (!!!!!!) and then some others. Wow. They all seem to be tweakers & hackers like us
You should check the videos from http://youtube.com/jollaofficial and from http://jolla.com to get a better view on what's going to come. Or what is. '
'
And as a side note, we COULD get the OS running with the stuff from the SDK. No instructions or tutorials yet but skilled guys can ofc do it!:good:
EDIT:
bardzogrozny said:
Hi,
i'm very interested in this os. Saw the presentation at the live stream wednesday and follow the developement for a while. Here some things i found. Hope this helps.
It is meego/mer based.
The bridge to android is, that the Appstore of google is ported to sailfish os.
There will be a support for ST Ericsson devices. I'm wondering on which devices it will be ported.
The developers are making commercial to the manufacturers with the statement, that they are able to port the system to any device within three days. So there should be good possobiloties for dev's.
The source Code should be available right now, but i couldn't find it. There is a wiki site on sailfishos.org .
Hope there are some people that will try to port it.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google's Play Store won't officially be ported for Sailfish OS, but instead I believe some people here at XDA will port the APK though there is no guarantee it works. Anyways, they will be run through Myriad's stuff.
The ST-Ericsson stuff means that they are supporting Jolla with dev boards and that their boards can and will be used on at least some Jolla devices.
More later!
I like all that is being said here and hope we could get some skilled developers on this, the SDK is out though I do not have the link for it right here. I will look around for it.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
Rafase282 said:
It looks like the graphic card driver issue might come up again. Hopefully not. I was told to start with this since I have a nexus one.
SDK is here by the way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read the info from the link there you will find the links and instructions for the sdk.
Still hopeful
If it is possible to somehow port this over to our g2xs then why hasn't it been done with meego? Obviously ICS isn't coming, but if this does make it here somehow, then i might just hold on to this phone . If it doesn't then it will be a choice between the nexus 4 and the jolla phone. My brother has the N9 with meego on it, and the sad part is that he can run and android emulator with ICS perfectly, while we're stuck with out roms . For those of you who have not had the opportunity to play around with a linux phone, i highly suggest you do. If you look at the N9 specs compared to the G2X specs it looks weaker, but don't be fooled. the meego system can do much more with less. Anyways sorry for rambling on.
If you don't feel like reading that then: Meego is great, Jolla is gonna be better (the guys that made meego, which nokia cancelled, banded together to create jolla and continue on).
flizer said:
If it is possible to somehow port this over to our g2xs then why hasn't it been done with meego? Obviously ICS isn't coming, but if this does make it here somehow, then i might just hold on to this phone . If it doesn't then it will be a choice between the nexus 4 and the jolla phone. My brother has the N9 with meego on it, and the sad part is that he can run and android emulator with ICS perfectly, while we're stuck with out roms . For those of you who have not had the opportunity to play around with a linux phone, i highly suggest you do. If you look at the N9 specs compared to the G2X specs it looks weaker, but don't be fooled. the meego system can do much more with less. Anyways sorry for rambling on.
If you don't feel like reading that then: Meego is great, Jolla is gonna be better (the guys that made meego, which nokia cancelled, banded together to create jolla and continue on).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's funny is that is sort of what I think when it comes down to it.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
N9
Hi guys,
it's been a while since I've been here, but I have been following Jolla and their new OS, Sailfish.
I own a Nokia N9, got it 2nd hand on Ebay, mint condition.
First thing I wanted to do was upgrade the software/firmware, but it'd already been done by the previous owner.
Version PR1.3 (MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan), apparently, this last update came with a 1000 improvements!
Having come from using a Nokia N8 with Symbian's latest Belle Refresh, I find the N9 a bit less intuitive.
No alphanumeric keypad with T9 support, just QWERTY keypads that do support T9 and of course Swype, which is a joke on such a small keypad.
There are a variety of free softwares available for the N9, some don't work at all or require tweaking to make them run.
Video playback is absolutely horrendous, whatever format is being played, drops frames like mad and goes out of sync quite rapidly (not so much with streamed videos).
Also, there is no direct access to the 'user storage', a 3rd party 'explorer' is required to access it, how ridiculous and too boot, there is also not 16GB of storage, it's nearer 9GB as the MeeGo OS and included 'non removable' bloatware hogs all the valuable storage!
Anyway, I could ramble on about loads of little niggles with the N9 and the 'wonderful' MeeGo O/S which could have been a winner with more development.
Here's hoping that Jolla can deliver a breath of fresh air for the N9 users out there, which will NOT be supported by Jolla, it will be a community effort that will bring Sailfish to the N9 and other handsets.
All I 'd like is a nice alphanumeric keypad with T9 support in a 4x3 format, thanks! 8)
All said and done, the N9 has a lot of appeal with its glossy curvy finish, but, MeeGo, well, it's gotta go and Sailfish needs deliver!, if not, it's back on Ebay for my N9!!
Regards
Mark
This os is designed for nokia's upcoming mobiles.
Khizar hayyat said:
This os is designed for nokia's upcoming mobiles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it isn't.
Sailfish OS was made by people who got fired from Nokia and made their own company called Jolla. They are going to introduce their own phone running the Sailfish OS in few months.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Can't say I am excited about this neither as a developer nor as a consumer/enthusiast.
The ones interested in ports can follow this blog, there are instructions for some devices and boards already(Cubox, Snowball, Galaxy Nexus, ...): sagestechblog dot blogspot dot fi
The instructions are for Nemo Mobile that is basically Sailfish core(Mer) with a UI done by the community, when all Jolla Sailfish bits are released the setup should not differ much.
I love the idea and enthusiasm of Jolla but I can't see it succeeding especially with full out Ubuntu on mobile now. Shame too, because I loved MeeGo, especially on a netbook.
wpetraska said:
I love the idea and enthusiasm of Jolla but I can't see it succeeding especially with full out Ubuntu on mobile now. Shame too, because I loved MeeGo, especially on a netbook.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Ubuntu is not out yet. And announcing Ubuntu OS do not miraculously make it be an interesting choice or available everywhere. And even after that, you still have to choose between two UI that are really different.
(Personnaly, my choice goes to Sailfish)
In case you haven't seen it...
http://m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?
Hmmm...doesn't seem to have generated any interest yet...
In an interview with the CEO of Jolla, the interviewer asked if he could put this on his GS3, the CEO replied "Enabling Sailfish for a device such as Galaxy S3 is something that any community member could already do."
The SDK is released online here (I believe)
Unfortunately, I have no technical expertise in this area, is anyone else interested?
Could this be better than Jellybean?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
brew182 said:
In case you haven't seen it...
http://m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love to play around with it. The Ambiance feature looks really really cool.
A port form a different OS would only be good for the community However, I have no skills in developing or porting so I can't help except perhaps a small donation to whomever gets it done.
Same here, looks fun but no idea how to do it
I want! Looks awesome!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
This have to be done! I really want sailfish!
It's awsome .
I's a good OS ! But not for geeks for sure .
It will only turn heads of people who want to use it for daily usage . Not for heavy customizing ,
BTW The gecko / Firefox OS Would be awesome ! as it is an HTML 5 Based OS / or just a web page :cyclops:
Man no Google now voice search. Gapps. Or play store apps.
Its looks nice but right now in this phone world its apple Google and Microsoft. I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Sure I would still prefer Android as my main platform, but I would LOVE to try this out on my GS3! I've always been an OS geek, and love the feel of exploring a new, beautiful, and innovative UI, as well as learning how the underlying platform works and differs from similar setups. It's why I've been playing around with Linux distros and customizing and tweaking them, Solaris, BSD, etc long before Android, despite the fact that I'm no developer. I would LOVE to be able to play around with different OS'es on my GS3, rather than just different Android roms, and Sailfish is one of the most interesting to me. I'll probably end up using Ubuntu more than anything if we get it, but Sailfish is something new and different and it looks really fun. :fingers-crossed:
Can someone link the story of a Jolla dev saying it can be ported easily by the community? If so, let's get this project started, and find out what needs to be done to make this happen, I'm tired of all these different OS'es coming only to the GNex!
With the re-merge of Android and Linux, and addition of the ARM drivers to the mainline, these types of alternative OS'es shouldn't be terribly difficult to port, and between Alien Dalvik and Google writing all their apps in HTML5 for ChromeOS, we should be able to get the basics of what we need from Android running on here, we just need to get the OS running!!
robogoflow said:
I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You realize that Sailfish is also technically Linux, too, right? And you realize that Ubuntu OS won't have Google Now, Gapps, or the Play Store either, right? So why are you naysaying Sailfish but optimistic about Ubuntu? You, sir, make no sense.
Why Sailfish might be a "GOOD" idea too...
The simple fact is I just bought a NOTE 2. First Samsung Device and aside from the S-pen, making a different way of interaction.
We have this to consider. As i have been readng how to 'setup' my NOTE 2 as it's on order and pending... I have come across
threads about how GOOGLE is trying to get 'us' the end users off of SD cards. Other Crap like that... Google has power now,
and they are acting so far like EVERY other US company that gets it. M$, Apple...
It's nice to 'have' something else to look at that is OPEN and someone noted something that is a concern to me. Customizable
look, and features. I myself don't like CRAP on my desktop or my HOME SCREENS... I just don't. When I run Linux, I go with no
icons on my desktop.
So this is so far from what I've seen a bit of a turn off but in the future because the system has to start somewhere... if it's really
open, one would hope such features could be expected. Either 3rd party or by the main OS makers.
There have been enough complaints here by users about devices without SD CARD access. About how Google is trying to cut
this off and how ni Samsung devices Samsung had to 'hack' around it to allow SD card access to apps that were used to getting
it.
I for one for simplicity don't want a stupid OS where all my personal CRAP PHOTOS etc are STUCK in the phone. Just for a simple
reason like that.
Another reason we should all hope for MORE OS's to be released is because lets let the DEVICE makers take something back!
Eventually it only takes one to WISE up... loosing money competing OS to OS or by trying to follow up when they have a good device but for example the ANDROID leader is SAMSUNG. I like that LG picked up WebOS SO they're gonna make Smart TV with it but all it takes is a little pebble to start the Landslide.
THese OEM's we want them to wise up and say... WAIT! There's stuff out there... we make the DEVICE and let them decide what they want on it. Isn't waht we all dream of? Cause then stupid crap like Samsungs Flash counter will be something made obsolete by trend.
Makes will possibly start trying to just concentrate on GOOD HARDWARE just like computers, and then maybe some company will really wise up and the only thing they'll contribute will be a device coming with some kind of AWsome MULTI-BOOT loader system ... Or at least if the devices are open someone can make one... haha.
Also about the Ubunty on mobiles thing... well, it's an interesting idea but seems like they are still not planning to get anywhere with it for a whole year? I wonder why...
Sailfish is using the WHOLE Linux... it's the same thing, but with a UI set for imbedded and small devices. SO all that needs to be done in the future is a step up to a whole desktop for bigger screen devices or if you dock your device to a large screen... so in other words...
Sailfish could have the same potential as Ubuntu...
I have personally never used Ubuntu and hope that with the option of sailfish what we may see is other Linux projects joining the trend. I mean really... it's all OPEN source. What actually bugs me the most as an end users is also the same problem that I see with some Linux projects.
Everyone reinventing the WHEEL trying to make the best this and taht and this is the real reason in some instances it's taking longer to do something that is lying around and could be modified and it's true, I don't speak with any experience in coding or programming but I think some who do know what is said is a bit true in some instances just like in some a total rewrite may be in order.
but if it's OPEN, then the parts are there.
So either way... it'll be good to see SAILFISH and other things. I'm sorry, but the whole TIZEN thing doesn't appeal to me pesonally. If it had more underlying structure other than the HTML 5, cause frankly, I am not real happy about every little thing on my system always
being connected to the internet in some way... though yes, I realize HTML 5 is just a way to create graphics but, remember these are companies we're dealing with here and they always have their own agenda.
Anyway... I'd like to see Sailfish vs Windoz OS, cause Micro$haft has not changed their ways and I don't expect to see them do any different than they have and their system will be similarly locked in ways but differently or in differently places as much as Apple's.
Android is open now but Google is acting weird and some competition and innovation can keep it open longer...
So, I'd love to see Salifsish fly or is that Swim... and of course they need to start somewhere and 90% of they users will be people who just want it to 'work' and that's where they need to go first. Us power users, etc in this forum, we're like the 10% or less now. Before
we were the people buying smartphones but when smartphones are now what the average user is getting their hands on?
Forget it... you bettre make something that they goo OOOH perty, and it's simple. OR you will be lost in the market. I also recall that
Sailfish is coming out here in the Asian market if I read taht right a couple month ago. I am an expat living in CHINA and believe me.
They want it simple and pretty, anything else... and it will fail. But once it hits this market, where a lot of stuff for Android is being made now
if it is accepted... then it will start having things made for it and if it can run Android apps, it's a true plus...
Depending on what hardware it comes out on, if it's able to use the simple apps I use in Android, it may be my next device to replace my daily users...
Obviously the NOTE 2 is going to be my KIND device and isn't exactly for 'daily' use in the way that I use my devices.
Still, the more the merrier and frankly, a lot of OEM's will want to get off of being branded as ANDROID device makers or whatever if they want to sell.
Also it's all good that ANDY is merging back with main kernel, but so far... there is still NO REAL work you can do with Android despite this yet. I do mean, such as prepare a very good OFFICE DOCUMENT, Power Point presentation and so on that you would on a computer. Though I hear the Open Office to Android project is going... so one can but wait and hope.
I would love to try this out on my LG optimus 2x SU660!
brew182 said:
In case you haven't seen it...
m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. should try
I would love to see this OS running on my S3.
very cool... watch the hands on video. Note that they say that android apps will be ported over for the sailfish os, SO i would imagine that even if gapps are blocked etc. that they would likely work for the most part, or could be made to work ... lol :highfive:
Im definitely interested in anything that has quality (obviously this does!) ... and represents a new form of competition
I think this is pretty damn awesome. The hands on videos on YouTube look great, especially the ambiance thing.
Honestly, the phone looks good too but i would rather keep the beast hardware in my S3 and maybe get an S4, but having this OS on it would be awesome.
If someone had a way to dual boot Sailfish and Android, that would be epic.
Sure, it isnt completely and utterly customizable. But Sailfish seems very natural to use and at the same time you can still tap into all the Android apps!
Simple OS + Android apps.. what's not to like?
mandeep1 said:
I's a good OS ! But not for geeks for sure .
It will only turn heads of people who want to use it for daily usage . Not for heavy customizing ,
BTW The gecko / Firefox OS Would be awesome ! as it is an HTML 5 Based OS / or just a web page :cyclops:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is perfect for geeks! Lots of stuff to play with, mod and hack + true multi tasking
robogoflow said:
Man no Google now voice search. Gapps. Or play store apps.
Its looks nice but right now in this phone world its apple Google and Microsoft. I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dat comment. You must be somekind of an expert
/sarcasm
IOS 7 looks like Jolla.
Any devs planning on porting this to the N9? Since Jolla is based of Meego (I Think?).
l.Urker said:
Any devs planning on porting this to the N9? Since Jolla is based of Meego (I Think?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They said that the N9 can be flash on sailfish but there will be no support provide by Jolla.
Plus, you can find some video with the N950 running sailfish. As the N950 have the same hardware as the N9 so it is compatible.
Please do. I heart my n9 so much...
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
There'll eventually be a community port of Sailfish*, don't expect it to be very reliable/slick though, there'll be some things that never work properly.
This has all been explained time & time again, I'm not going into the back story as-to-why all this is true, the information is out there.
*not Jolla's flavour, just the stock version of Sailfish, which means it'll be quite bare-bones compared Jolla's Sailfish (initially anyway).
oh thanks for all the replies. my N9 is just collecting dust right now. whats the difference between jolla sailfish and normal one?
Swyped from my M9704
l.Urker said:
oh thanks for all the replies. my N9 is just collecting dust right now. whats the difference between jolla sailfish and normal one?
Swyped from my M9704
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jolla is the name of the company..
Sailfish is the name of the operating system
Do we have any news on this?
Still now, don't seen any port from Jolla..
even SDK is out..
But I really like to see Jolla port to N9.. :good:
any news about this?
and anyone has stock sailfish on n9?
Chyea!
Sent from my VZW Galaxy Note II, hyper powered via MeanBean - ICE 1.0
- Hyperion 6,200MAh Extended Battery
- Modded Otterbox to fit battery
- An S-Pen (deal with it)
Just to clarify things.
There is this company called Jolla. They make this operating system called SailfishOS which in fact is Mer.
So what is Mer? Mer is an operating system without hardware layer and UX. This means it's useless because it won't run on any hardware. You need the hardware layer which means drivers und you probably need the UX which means the GUI. This 3 parts together give you an operating system that you can use on your hardware. An example of this is SailfishOS.
If you take Mer and add the Hardware layer for the Jolla device and then the Sailfish Silica UI you get SailfishOS. The only other iteration of SailfishOS which exists is the one with the hardware layer for the Nokia N950. This will never be released as an official or supported Version.
So for all you guys waiting for a port of SailfishOS for device xyz. This won't happen. There is only one thing that could possible become reality and that's a leaked, unsupported beta image of SailfishOS for the Nokia N950/N9. Maybe this image will be the same which we saw in early demos of SailfishOS.
So the rule is as follows:
Even if you get all the linux drivers (not Android) for Mer so that you could possibly run Mer on your device you still need the UX. Jolla won't give you their Sailfish UI. You could use the Nemo mobile UI that is similar to it but the Sailfish UI will only be available on official Jolla devices.
But let's dream a little bit. If you really get Linux drivers for your device xyz and the Jolla device is out there and it has nearly the same hardware as your device it could be possible that you take all the packages that contain the Sailfish Silica UI and install them on your own device with Mer and your own hardware layer. This is possible in theory. In reality I don't think we will see a usable port that can be your daily driver.
An exchange which should help folks understand why there's no images*: http://pastie.org/private/lgldc4h3dikjkqc9nxecaq
They've said once they have one or more devices shipping, they'll probably start to open Sailfish much more, but not a minute before, for several reasons.
But that doesn't mean they'll also start to support images for 3rd-party devices, they'll probably never do that to the degree Canonical does, see the above.
*original source for that pastie
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1941044&p=48#r950
Jolla will be ported to N9. It won't hava all the functions, that on the Jolla device (for ex. no Voice control...anyway who needs it?), but it will be officially released around september/october 2013. So be patient
Giorgio84 said:
Jolla will be ported to N9. It won't hava all the functions, that on the Jolla device (for ex. no Voice control...anyway who needs it?), but it will be officially released around september/october 2013. So be patient
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real? or just your wish?
Is there an ETA?
Is there an ETA on when someone could make some early progress on this project? I'm worried that people are losing so much interest that a preview version of Sailfish running on the N9 might be a great idea to get people wanting more of the Meego successor.
That way, people would be falling in love with Sailfish and since it would have a significant spec-bump over the N9, people would be willing to buy it for the screen/display improvement, the "other half," and the great UI.
Giorgio84 said:
Jolla will be ported to N9. It won't hava all the functions, that on the Jolla device (for ex. no Voice control...anyway who needs it?), but it will be officially released around september/october 2013. So be patient
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have any source for this info? Because there is no official announcement that hit my attention.
hacker00740 said:
Is there an ETA on when someone could make some early progress on this project?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As always "when it's done". Please stop asking for ports. Just wait until Jolla came out with there first device. I'm sure there will be ports and adaptions all over the place once the Software gets in the hands of the right guys. And this community or t.m.o is prbably the first place to know it. But asking for it every second won't let that happen earlier.
Hello friends ..
No new news??
SDK when the operating system was released.
Test video of the operating system on it is N9. Why not port the operating system to handset N9 its wonderful ...
Please help developers...
maxomid said:
Hello friends ..
No new news??
SDK when the operating system was released.
Test video of the operating system on it is N9. Why not port the operating system to handset N9 its wonderful ...
Please help developers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SDK didn't include the full version of the Sailfish OS. It only contains a basic emulator for apps. So until Jolla releases a phone with Sailfish, it is impossible to port
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
tbo-art said:
The SDK didn't include the full version of the Sailfish OS. It only contains a basic emulator for apps. So until Jolla releases a phone with Sailfish, it is impossible to port
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the answer
Will be released in full when it is SDk?
Why developers do not work on this phone Nitdroid ROM Port ... Time to full Android experience on these phones ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2342102
Hi, i want to share this post from a Jolla engineer giving tips to start porting Sailfish:
I'm pretty sure I phrased it a bit different So, both the N900 and N9 have the problem of having binary blobs, which Jolla is not allowed to distribute, and almost certainly never will be. The N9 additionally has the problem of having an older kernel than the N900 -- old enough that it's starting to cause problems. That's the reason why I probably mentioned N900.
As for Nemo and N9, Nemo is a community followup project of MeeGo, and as such inherited basic N9 hardware adaptation, and the right to redistribute those binary blobs. So, if you as user take a Nemo image and put Jolla stuff in there it works -- but we as Jolla can't do that.
Another problem is that the old N9 adaptation is based on X11, while we are using Wayland. We do have a proof of concept Wayland stack up on N9 (available through Nemo as well), but it has its fair shair of problems.
That we're using Wayland makes your suggestion of porting Sailfish libraries to Harmattan hard as well: Harmattan is an X11 stack (same in the different direction: you can't use a Harmattan binary on Sailfish. If you have the source porting is trivial -- unless it's using meegotouch. But if you only have a binary it won't run. In theory something hacking with xwayland might be possible, but that's pretty crazy, and a sailfish port/rewrite would almost certainly be the better option)
So, it should be pretty clear by now that we will not do N9 images. What needs to happen for community to be able to do the port? Easy: Get involved in Nemo. I mentioned that several times, though so far nobody showed interest.
It's mainly 3 areas that need work:
- finish port to the 3.5 kernel we started. The required tasks are in Nemos Bugzilla
- start fixing bugs in the Wayland proof-of-concept for N9
- reverse engineer hardware components where no driver exists, and do drivers (like GPS)
So, it's a hard task, but not impossible. The Nemo community and Jolla provided a very good starting point with Nemo, now it's up to community members to step up, and continue.
SOURCE: TMO
Sailfish OS will soon be spreading to many devices when they release the development kit but that still leaves us without the ability to run Android apps on our phones.
If we were allowed to buy a license for Myriad Alien Dalvik how much would you be willing to pay?
aironeous said:
Sailfish OS will soon be spreading to many devices when they release the development kit but that still leaves us without the ability to run Android apps on our phones.
If we were allowed to buy a license for Myriad Alien Dalvik how much would you be willing to pay?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that Sailfish OS should not support android application and Dalvik at all.
1. Android is developed constantly and very quickly. Very soon new apps will not be able to work on Dalvik.
2. Android layer will always be more eating CPU power then Qt apps.
We should better pay for Qt development, because Qt is much better and powerful then "google java".
nimnull said:
I think that Sailfish OS should not support android application and Dalvik at all.
1. Android is developed constantly and very quickly. Very soon new apps will not be able to work on Dalvik.
2. Android layer will always be more eating CPU power then Qt apps.
We should better pay for Qt development, because Qt is much better and powerful then "google java".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android will support Dalvik Apps a long time from now because many phone are still running with version that don't support ART and so the apps will support Dalvik.
taaeem said:
Android will support Dalvik Apps a long time from now because many phone are still running with version that don't support ART and so the apps will support Dalvik.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dalvik support by Google is not the reason why Sailfish OS should support Dalvik.
Most of the money for "Android compatibility layer" will be payed for google license. Why we should give our money to Google, then it is better to spend them motivating native application development.
Sailfish should develop native applications, because Qt5 is open source now and community will be much bigger.
Best regards.
Apps are always a key issue. The forums are filled with people posting, "I'm considering leaving OS 'A" in favor of OS 'B' but I need to know if I can get apps X, Y and Z or a suitable replacement."
It's not necessarily the number of apps in an ecosystem so much as specific apps and what they accomplish. And the list is mutable. Every user has a make-or-break app need. For some it is banking, others require certain social media apps, office editing, navigation, entertainment, games... If you can't fill that perceived need, you can't lure anyone to your OS. It was smart of Jolla to team with Myriad and offer Alien Dalvik with their Jolla phone. It breaks down resistance to change for the widest possible spectrum of users. Don't forget - most users aren't capable of writing their own apps - even if they can flash a ROM. At this stage of the game, any OS needs a robust ecosystem to prosper.
Myriad seems a savvy company to me. I'm quite sure they will have Alien ART to go alongside Alien Dalvik. They need to in order for their business model to continue. Jolla will want to upgrade to Alien ART. And they should if they want to prosper.
I agree that development of QT based apps is highly desirable. Throw in HTML 5, Enyo 2 and Mochi as well. Open the standards. Great all around for developers and users when apps can easily be ported from one OS to another and run seamlessly within each OS and identically through each version. But to believe that it currently will support most users, or will do so soon, is a dream. And to insist that it should right this moment is elitist and alienates huge swaths of the potential user base.
Should Myriad (not Jolla - they don't own it) provide a license and installer for Alien Dalvik for Sailfish images on Android handsets? They should if they want to expand their market and recognition. But what are the logistics? Would it not need to be tuned for each specific device's hardware configuration? I believe it does... That may be why it isn't in the N4 images yet. Not ready for the hardware, and the image isn't ready either. Sailfish need to at least reach a Beta level and have the ability for OTA updates. What point is there to Alien Dalvik at this point when you need to flash the OS complete at each new release? It's just masturbation right now to have Sailfish on your N4. I know; I've slathered my N4 in Sailfish and stroked it.
Let Sailfish mature for the N4 where it can be a daily and receive OTA and then, yes, at that point please give us Alien Dalvik. And Alien ART afterwards.
How much would I pay. Not $30. Not $20... I think $15 is probably my top price. I'd like to see $10 or even $5... I know $1 is a crack induced daydream.
RumoredNow said:
Apps are always a key issue. The forums are filled with people posting, "I'm considering leaving OS 'A" in favor of OS 'B' but I need to know if I can get apps X, Y and Z or a suitable replacement."
It's not necessarily the number of apps in an ecosystem so much as specific apps and what they accomplish. And the list is mutable. Every user has a make-or-break app need. For some it is banking, others require certain social media apps, office editing, navigation, entertainment, games... If you can't fill that perceived need, you can't lure anyone to your OS. It was smart of Jolla to team with Myriad and offer Alien Dalvik with their Jolla phone. It breaks down resistance to change for the widest possible spectrum of users. Don't forget - most users aren't capable of writing their own apps - even if they can flash a ROM. At this stage of the game, any OS needs a robust ecosystem to prosper.
Myriad seems a savvy company to me. I'm quite sure they will have Alien ART to go alongside Alien Dalvik. They need to in order for their business model to continue. Jolla will want to upgrade to Alien ART. And they should if they want to prosper.
I agree that development of QT based apps is highly desirable. Throw in HTML 5, Enyo 2 and Mochi as well. Open the standards. Great all around for developers and users when apps can easily be ported from one OS to another and run seamlessly within each OS and identically through each version. But to believe that it currently will support most users, or will do so soon, is a dream. And to insist that it should right this moment is elitist and alienates huge swaths of the potential user base.
Should Myriad (not Jolla - they don't own it) provide a license and installer for Alien Dalvik for Sailfish images on Android handsets? They should if they want to expand their market and recognition. But what are the logistics? Would it not need to be tuned for each specific device's hardware configuration? I believe it does... That may be why it isn't in the N4 images yet. Not ready for the hardware, and the image isn't ready either. Sailfish need to at least reach a Beta level and have the ability for OTA updates. What point is there to Alien Dalvik at this point when you need to flash the OS complete at each new release? It's just masturbation right now to have Sailfish on your N4. I know; I've slathered my N4 in Sailfish and stroked it.
Let Sailfish mature for the N4 where it can be a daily and receive OTA and then, yes, at that point please give us Alien Dalvik. And Alien ART afterwards.
How much would I pay. Not $30. Not $20... I think $15 is probably my top price. I'd like to see $10 or even $5... I know $1 is a crack induced daydream.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the applications that make an ecosystem, NOT how elegant that ecosystem is. Paraphrasing badly but: if you have no users, who's there to see the tree fall? To simply say "well, everyone should just code QT!" is pretty short-sighted, even though I agree. You need to coax people over and then have them notice how lovely this also-supported-by-the-now-popular-OS framework is. Just because you build it, doesn't mean they will come.
The reason there is no installer for Jolla N4 adaptation yet though is just plain licensing. They don't seem to be too fussed about driving adoption of their VM (maybe they're happy already with their customer base?) so why should they give away their proprietary software for free? As for Jolla, why should they pay for it for people who haven't forked out for their handset? I think these are reasonable standpoints from both Myriad and Jolla and why, as long as I can get full functionality out of my N4 running Sailfish, I'll happily fork out for a VM to run those must-have 'droid apps. That would be reasonable. If I can get a free, Free one then even better!