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Haaaiiiii everybody!
Firstly, what a spectacular device. It's gorgeous, the screen is awesome, the performance is great (huge improvement over my last handset (tytn II) - not that i didn't love it like my own child mind), and love the sense UI wrapper thingy for winmo.
I bought the phone from mobiles.co.uk (is this just carephone warehouse? The invoice i got just looks like the ones you get from the shop itself) and i'm guessing it's the stock rom/unlocked, since i'm on t-mobile (UK) and i have the youtube app, co-pilot etc. And it asked me to set the network preset myself when i first turned it on.
My question is related to reception/signal strength. How are you all finding it? I've moved from orange to t-mobile, so i did expect to experience a slight reduction in the quality of coverage - perhaps simply because the urban folklore is that orange have the best coverage. However, it seems to be depressingly poor. My orange handset is pretty much 3 or more bars of HSDPA everywhere in my house. By comparison, the new HD2 is mostly just G (GPRS), very ocasionally 3G or H, and only ever 1 or 2 bars of whatever bandwidth it settles on.
Moreover, it seems to fluctuate strangely. My mental model for mobile signal strength - informed entirely by experience - is that it's related almost entirely to where you're stood. Once you find a decent spot, it tends to remain pretty consistent. However, sometimes with the leo, I'll stick it down on my desk and leave it for a few minutes, in which time it'll build up to perhaps 2 bars of 3G, but as soon as i pick it up, it tends to decrease gradually back down to 1 or 2 bars of G.
According to the t-mobile site i'm in a "Good" signal area for both 2 and 3g - i live near a big town (bolton), not out in the sticks. So i am somewhat disappointed so far. Is there any possibility i have a dodgy handset? or perhaps is this an issue with the radio part of the software install? Can i expect it to get better with future radio releases?
All this is indoors, but i did have a wander around outside for a few minutes earlier today, and the best i could get it up to was 2 bars of 3g.
A friend of mine also has t-mobile, and told me he seems to remember getting pretty good signal at my house, so i'm getting him to bring his android HTC (touch maybe?) round later so we can swap sims about and compare like with like. I'll have a better idea of what's going on then. I'm also aware that orange and t-mobile are almost certainly going to be merging rather soon, and they expect their networks to be one as of next summer, so i'll hopefully be back with my old coverage then, although this is a long time to wait. On a similar note, another reason this is worse than expected, is that i was under the impression t-mobile had more or less completed merging their 3g network with 3, which has the best 3g coverage in the country. Anyone aware of the status of this project? is it behind schedule?
Cheers for taking the time to read this all!
Simon
One other thing i forgot to mention, is that in some cases, it tries to switch between networks so frequently that web-browsing or any other data task is completely impossible. Last night i was lying in bed attempting to surf the web, and it kept changing between 1 bar of H, then dropping down to 0, then changing to 1 bar of 3g, then changing back to H. It was doing this every few seconds at one point.
I dont know where you got the idea that urban folklore says Orange has best network coverage! They are shockingly bad imo...
I actually ended up in a legal battle with Orange due to their extremely bad service/coverage... they were claiming around £70,000 pounds from me/my company after we refused to pay due to MANY shortcomings. Long story short.... i/we won. They didnt get a penny and we got to keep all of our hardware also.
T-Mobile have an extremely fast HSDPA network but again i find their overall coverage to be less then satisfactory.
I am under the impression that both T-Mobile and Orange use higher frequencies in their network and this results in their signals being alot worse at penetrating walls etc when compared to Vodafone and O2. Perhaps more knowledgable peeps could confirm this?
Anyway... back on point... with my HD2 (using Vodafone SIM) i am getting coverage in areas where previously no one on any network got a signal. In one particular restaurant i frequent... everyone else on my table had no coverage what so ever yet i was sitting there browsing the internet.
One other thing to note that may help you with your situation... the antenna for the HD2 is situated at the BOTTOM of the device. Other users have reported fluctuating signals when holding the dvice in their hand although i have no such experience myself.
Audio Oblivion said:
I dont know where you got the idea that urban folklore says Orange has best network coverage! They are shockingly bad imo...
I actually ended up in a legal battle with Orange due to their extremely bad service/coverage... they were claiming around £70,000 pounds from me/my company after we refused to pay due to MANY shortcomings. Long story short.... i/we won. They didnt get a penny and we got to keep all of our hardware also.
T-Mobile have an extremely fast HSDPA network but again i find their overall coverage to be less then satisfactory.
I am under the impression that both T-Mobile and Orange use higher frequencies in their network and this results in their signals being alot worse at penetrating walls etc when compared to Vodafone and O2. Perhaps more knowledgable peeps could confirm this?
Anyway... back on point... with my HD2 (using Vodafone SIM) i am getting coverage in areas where previously no one on any network got a signal. In one particular restaurant i frequent... everyone else on my table had no coverage what so ever yet i was sitting there browsing the internet.
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Click to collapse
Audio Oblivion said:
One other thing to note that may help you with your situation... the antenna for the HD2 is situated at the BOTTOM of the device. Other users have reported fluctuating signals when holding the dvice in their hand although i have no such experience myself.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the response! Interesting story about orange there. I think urban folklore is one of those things that varies from one urban environment to the next. Needless to say, orange has always been pretty strong for me here at home, so i am slightly disappointed with the performance of T-Mobile so far. I'll get my friend down here with his handset and see what the comparison is like, and i'll bear that antenna tip in mind!
I was considering vodafone, but their 3g coverage didn't seem to be as expansive as t-mobiles. Who knows, perhaps they'd have been as bad in my area if not worse? Another thing that swung me in the direction of t-mobile was the data packages. The guy at vodafone told me they offered no increased usage packages for mobiles. Whereas with t-mobile, for an extra fiver a month, i can - at any time, and for any number of months at a time - upgrade from 1gb fair usage to 3. And they will NEVER charge me for going over anyway, just cap bandwidth.
EDIT: forgot to mention the indoors thing. Yeah i'm a physicist by trade, so it did occur to me that operating frequency could be to blame for poor coverage in doors.
I'm waiting for my phone to arrive tomorrow (fingers crossed) so I can't comment on that, but I live in Atherton (which is just down the road for everyone else). My house and around my street is bad for all mobile reception. Currently I am on vodafone with a i900. If I leave my phone on the table I will get 2 bars but when I pick it up it usually disappears all together. I had a HTC Diamond for a day on Orange and that was worse. My friends are on O2 and they seem to get ok signal here, and a few years ago I was on Three which gave me the best signal in my house but was generally worse elsewhere.
I have an old Nokia as a works phone on Orange and that continually out performs my omnia for signal strength.
I was hoping the signal strength in this phone would be good. After flashing my radio in my Omnia many times it made no difference and I did not know the annettene on this was at the bottom of the phone (just like the Omnia). It seems strange to do this.
I can't comment on T-Mobile's coverage (although I did leave Orange a few years ago because of their shocking coverage) but I get generally excellent reception on 3 here in London. Unfortunately, the only place where the reception is bad is at one of the offices that I spend half my week at but 3 have marked that as a network blackspot on their website
If it helps, someone at another site I work at was amazed that I am able to make phone calls standing in the central stairwell of the building which is in the City. He can barely make a call when standing right next to the windows but he's using an iPhone on O2
I have seen no difference in indicated signal strength between my HD and my new HD2. However, what is clear is that the phone sound quality is better on this HD2 - even for the same location and same signal strength - something that is easy to judge at home.
I would guess your issue is to do with the T-Mobile strength in your house, versus the old Orange network signal, rather than the handset. When you do a comparison with your friends handset on T-Mobile do not go only by the indicated signal strength on the handset. It would be worth looking at the band switching issue by direct comparison and also to measure the actual download speed when data connected.
Regarding your H (HSDPA) and 3G switching - I think that you will find that HSDPA only kicks in when you actually have data being exchanged (actual exchange not demand). On all of my recent devices the H only shows when (for instance) a web page is actually in the process of downloading - what you report is not strictly band switching. However, some people do see performence issues when the device keeps truly switching bands (2G/G, and E, to 3G/H). Although a pain some find it better to force the device into a particular band to avoid such an issue - but there is always a consequent possibility of loosing all signal.
I'll be interested to hear how the comparison goes.
chris_lyon82 said:
I'm waiting for my phone to arrive tomorrow (fingers crossed) so I can't comment on that, but I live in Atherton (which is just down the road for everyone else). My house and around my street is bad for all mobile reception. Currently I am on vodafone with a i900. If I leave my phone on the table I will get 2 bars but when I pick it up it usually disappears all together. I had a HTC Diamond for a day on Orange and that was worse. My friends are on O2 and they seem to get ok signal here, and a few years ago I was on Three which gave me the best signal in my house but was generally worse elsewhere.
I have an old Nokia as a works phone on Orange and that continually out performs my omnia for signal strength.
I was hoping the signal strength in this phone would be good. After flashing my radio in my Omnia many times it made no difference and I did not know the annettene on this was at the bottom of the phone (just like the Omnia). It seems strange to do this.
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Funnily enough, my phone mistakenly thought i was in atherton the other day - gps indoors being the cause. Interested to hear how you get on when the phone arrives.
jakem said:
I can't comment on T-Mobile's coverage (although I did leave Orange a few years ago because of their shocking coverage) but I get generally excellent reception on 3 here in London. Unfortunately, the only place where the reception is bad is at one of the offices that I spend half my week at but 3 have marked that as a network blackspot on their website
If it helps, someone at another site I work at was amazed that I am able to make phone calls standing in the central stairwell of the building which is in the City. He can barely make a call when standing right next to the windows but he's using an iPhone on O2
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I think it's probably just a case of orange having better reception around my local area than t-mobile unfortunately. All this said, it's not too much of a bother, since obviously i can just use the wireless network for data access whilst at home. Not really gone out and about with the phone yet as i'm waiting for my number to port across.
tony.wheeler said:
I have seen no difference in indicated signal strength between my HD and my new HD2. However, what is clear is that the phone sound quality is better on this HD2 - even for the same location and same signal strength - something that is easy to judge at home.
I would guess your issue is to do with the T-Mobile strength in your house, versus the old Orange network signal, rather than the handset. When you do a comparison with your friends handset on T-Mobile do not go only by the indicated signal strength on the handset. It would be worth looking at the band switching issue by direct comparison and also to measure the actual download speed when data connected.
Regarding your H (HSDPA) and 3G switching - I think that you will find that HSDPA only kicks in when you actually have data being exchanged (actual exchange not demand). On all of my recent devices the H only shows when (for instance) a web page is actually in the process of downloading - what you report is not strictly band switching. However, some people do see performence issues when the device keeps truly switching bands (2G/G, and E, to 3G/H). Although a pain some find it better to force the device into a particular band to avoid such an issue - but there is always a consequent possibility of loosing all signal.
I'll be interested to hear how the comparison goes.
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Click to collapse
Interesting - thanks for the info! Yeah i'm leaning towards just relatively poor T-M reception locally as the explanation now myself. I'll bear those tips in mind when testing. My plan was to choose a location in the house where i know my own phone will only maintain something relatively poor, like a single bar on the GPRS band. Then leave the phones side by side in this location and see what they both settle down to. Then swap sim cards around - if they are different - and repeat. Are conventional bandwidth testing sites appropriate for mobiles? or do they involve the transfer of comparatively large amounts of data? Is there an alternative you can suggest if so?
Ah perhaps that's a winmo6.5 difference? I know on my old kaiser, the H is there all the time, even when i've used kaiser tweak to disable the internet/data connection. By that i mean the large H, as opposed to the small letter which appears above the signal bar when the data connection has actually been established. I have wondered why modern phones differentiate between H and 3G, since we're told they are, in reality, the same band. Haven't most providers just upgraded all their 3g transmitters? I'd have thought phones would have always believed themselves to be connected to "H" - in 3g zones - and it would simply be a case of signal determining the sort of bandwidth which can be sustained.
Not sure when i'll get chance to do the test, but i will post back in this thread once it's completed!
Hi,
I know it's an obvious statement but I would imagine it's just down to location. I live in South London, have an HD2 on T-Mobile and get pretty much consistent 3G/HSDPA coverage throughout the house. Downloads are quick and email and weather syncing very prompt.
I've had contracts with pretty much all major service providers and I must say that T-Mobile probably has the best coverage of them all along with '3'...
Ok, so the friend who's also on t-mobile popped round this evening. Didn't have time to do any testing in my own home, as we had an errand to run. However, during the journey i had the phones side by side to make a direct comparison, and also had time to do this briefly once we'd arrived at our destination. No time for bandwidth comparisons yet - just looking at indicated signal strength and band. Important to note that his handset is a G1, running android, so as indicated before, comparing actual "bars" of signal is perhaps somewhat arbitrary and fruitless - who knows what differences there are between the way microsoft and google calculate signal strength.
First thing to note is the H/3G indicator issue. One of the previous posters does indeed seem to have it quite right in saying that 3G only changes to an H whilst a transfer is actually in progress. My handset does sometimes seem to flick from 3g to H whilst i'm not directly making data calls, but i imagine this is some auto sync in the background, either from the weather app, or the facebook app, or the facebook-linked contacts. Whilst browsing, it says 3G all the time, until a link is clicked, in which case it changes to H for the time it takes the page to load, then back to 3G. Not sure if this is just a change in winmo from the last version i had to this or, or an HTC customisation.
In terms of signal/banding the phones were more or less the same, with a couple of notable exceptions. Firstly, at one point during the 30 minute journey, my phone had switched to a full GPRS signal, whereas his was still on 3g, with a fairly weak signal (1 bar). This lasted for about 30 seconds at 30mph, and then the HD2 went back up to 3G. I wouldn't read anything into this, as the two platforms no doubt have totally different strategies when it comes to maintaining network connections and the criteria for switching up to a higher band etc.
The only other interesting occurrence was after we'd arrived. Sat side by side on the couch, my phone was reading 3g with 1 bar of signal strength, occasionally 2, whereas his was a pretty consistent 3. Outside the building we were both more or less full signal. Now, i'm not sure whether we can compare these reported signal levels - as i said above i'd have thought each platform did it a different way, unless there's some standard they all have to conform to. Also, i opened up opera to check something offline, and occasionally my connection dropped down to zero bars. However, this did not disrupt browsing. Didn't even seem to slow it down. Still read H when loading pages, and it was still fast and smooth, and at now point did it drop to GPRS or lose a connection entirely. Interesting because on my old kaiser, zero bars was quickly followed by the searching for connection graphic. In other words, nothing would work with zero signal. Now, i'm not sure whether the signal strength thingy is just calibrated differently on the HD2 (maybe 0 is the new 1) or perhaps the software does a better job these days of maintaining a connection - who knows.
However, only thing to report so far is that indoors, in this particular location anyway, the HD2 seemed to be reading a lower signal on it's indicator than the G1 IF the two can be compared as directly as this.
All pretty qualitative so far, so i'm going to have a go at some bandwidth tests and band comparisons in the more challenging areas of my house when he's next over.
gargon01 said:
Hi,
I know it's an obvious statement but I would imagine it's just down to location. I live in South London, have an HD2 on T-Mobile and get pretty much consistent 3G/HSDPA coverage throughout the house. Downloads are quick and email and weather syncing very prompt.
I've had contracts with pretty much all major service providers and I must say that T-Mobile probably has the best coverage of them all along with '3'...
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Click to collapse
I think that's certainly the primary factor at work here. What i was mainly concerned with, was whether the handset itself was under-performing - i.e. would other phones with t-mobile sims achieve better reception. Strangely, in the past i had always dismissed "signal" as a property of the network rather than the handset. Obviously though, with a few minutes thought, it's easy to see how the hardware is also an important factor. Not all receivers are born equal - even though i imagine these days it's pretty much a solved problem, from an engineering perspective - just like all software to interpret radio signals and hold connections isn't either.
I also went orange to t-mobile, and the speed is way faster. Just your luck really.
arfster said:
I also went orange to t-mobile, and the speed is way faster. Just your luck really.
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It's not really too bad. But yeah, bad luck that really i can only use it for voice calls at home. Even half a mile closer to town though, it holds a full 3G signal, and i too have been really impressed with the speed whilst browsing - much faster than my old orange connection. In truth, it's not important that the data calling stuff works at home, since i have a wireless network. The same is true of all my friends, so i can just connect to theirs whilst over. The data calling is more important when out and about, and in this respect the phone seems to perform really well
So far no sms bug either, but i'm not taking this for granted.
Hmm, voice quality is nicer but reception's worse I reckon compared to my Touch HD with the 1.16 radio. Instead of getting "H" for HSDPA reception all the time at work it's flicking between 3G and H.
Also have data connection problems after roaming between 2G (GSM) and 3G (3G / HSDPA) - WM will refuse to connect online until I manually force Flight Mode on and off.
On the 1.48 rom. Looks like they have several bugs they need to fix in the Radio...
aussiebum said:
Hmm, voice quality is nicer but reception's worse I reckon compared to my Touch HD with the 1.16 radio. Instead of getting "H" for HSDPA reception all the time at work it's flicking between 3G and H.
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I see that also, but only when not using it. When it's connected, it sticks on H ......and it's really, really fast - quickest mobile data I've ever seen. Yesterday I'd switched off wifi by mistake, and didn't even realise.
_tangent said:
as indicated before, comparing actual "bars" of signal is perhaps somewhat arbitrary and fruitless
i'm not sure whether we can compare these reported signal levels - i'd have thought each platform did it a different way..
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An analysis I can't really fault. OK,I know my N95 8GB runs off symbian but quite often I'll attempt to place a call when its showing 3 or more bars of "signal strength" for it to drop the call instantly followed by an onscreen message of "network error" which equates to "I have no signal" as its suddenly not showing any signal at all even though my location hasn't changed at all (and yes,I am aware that the signal travels via a "cell" which may have suddenly had to cope with more traffic than its capable of and as a result dropped one of its clients-me!).
I too live in an area where reception is far from ideal (phone works best if I go outside and balance it on top of a fence post behind my shed lol ) and as I travel a lot (HGV driver) I need a network that's pretty robust and o2 seems to be the best I've used so far.
Have you tried using something like a broadband speed test (personally I'm not sure how accurate these are, as you tend to get quite a spread of results if you carry out repeated tests, although in theory you could average them out) such as this one here :http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/ which may help you find a baseline for the actual performance on your current network?
Final point to make,again maybe no relation but might be worth mentioning..I play a lot with various sat-navs and have found in the past that it can be possible for one to effect the performance of another one by being in close proximity to it ie: one will get a full lock on sats but the other wont as device A seems to hog any signal and only when A is turned off will B be able to get a lock onto any sats...a situation like that may hamper the initial observations you've made so far over to you
_tangent said:
Funnily enough, my phone mistakenly thought i was in atherton the other day - gps indoors being the cause. Interested to hear how you get on when the phone arrives.
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I've been playing around with my phone now for 2 days and I am happy as my signal is a lot better than my Omnia 1. I even managed to have a phone call yesterday whilst sat down on my couch I do still have the problem though that when I pick up my phone the signal will drop 1 or 2 bars down and if I hold it long enough it will loose signal all together. But like I say it is a lot better than my Omnia and this only happens in my house which has poor signal anyway.
Overall I'm happy with the signal strength so far. I'll see how I get on with it over the next couple of weeks though.
I have just upgraded from a diamond to HD2 and I have found the reception to be much worse in my house than the diamond. The phone keeps fluctuating from 4 bars to 1 and often looses the network all together. My diamond was pretty stable in the same places. Is it possible to tweak the performance or do we need to wait for the next ROM? I have updated to 1.48 UK ROM.
(Search feature is down but I don't remember seeing anything about this)
It seems like the wifi signal is really weak on my Nexus S (stock, MoDaCo rX, and Cyanogen alpha). The only time I get full bars is if stand right in front of the router. Sometimes it will drop a bar or two even when I am in the same room as the router.
I'm out of the country at the moment and unable to test it with my network at home to compare performance to the N1 or MT4G I used to have. Can I get some feedback from other users about their wifi strength? I might have to find a way to return/exchange the phone from here before the end of the remorse period if it's a problem unique to my device.
c_licious said:
(Search feature is down but I don't remember seeing anything about this)
It seems like the wifi signal is really weak on my Nexus S (stock, MoDaCo rX, and Cyanogen alpha). The only time I get full bars is if stand right in front of the router. Sometimes it will drop a bar or two even when I am in the same room as the router.
I'm out of the country at the moment and unable to test it with my network at home to compare performance to the N1 or MT4G I used to have. Can I get some feedback from other users about their wifi strength? I might have to find a way to return/exchange the phone from here before the end of the remorse period if it's a problem unique to my device.
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Actually have it listed as a known issue in the FAQ after seeing an article pop up from Androidcentral.com shortly after launch.
But, yes, I can confirm this. I'm literally sitting right next to my router and have a full three bars. If I move to the couch, it'll switch between 2-3 and if I go into my bedroom, it'll do it from 1-2. I'm in a relatively small apartment, btw lol.
Interestingly enough, while the graphic displays a weaker signal and testing from market apps does indeed show a weaker signal, I don't really notice much in the way of speed loss or instability.
Yap, same here.
If i go to about 30 ft away, i'm done...no wifi!
unremarked said:
Actually have it listed as a known issue in the FAQ after seeing an article pop up from Androidcentral.com shortly after launch.
But, yes, I can confirm this. I'm literally sitting right next to my router and have a full three bars. If I move to the couch, it'll switch between 2-3 and if I go into my bedroom, it'll do it from 1-2. I'm in a relatively small apartment, btw lol.
Interestingly enough, while the graphic displays a weaker signal and testing from market apps does indeed show a weaker signal, I don't really notice much in the way of speed loss or instability.
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Yea, just read your thread (slapping myself on the wrist for posting too soon). Unfortunately, it does seem to cause some instability for me as it occasionally disconnects completely due to the low signal.
Do you think this is the same for all devices and has just gone unnoticed for those who don't heavily rely on wifi. Or would an exchange be my best option at this point? Not sure how much of a hardware vs software fix this would be...
No issues here. The reception isn't great, but it's a phone. Small WiFi card. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I feel like 30-50 feet through the walls and/or floors of a house/apartment is pretty reasonable for a device like this. Of course, as always, the more obstacles (physical barriers and electronic interference) the signal has to go through to get to your phone, the worse the reception will be at any given distance, so there are a lot of potential influencing factors.
zorak950 said:
No issues here. The reception isn't great, but it's a phone. Small WiFi card. Maybe my expectations are too low, but I feel like 30-50 feet through the walls and/or floors of a house/apartment is pretty reasonable for a device like this. Of course, as always, the more obstacles (physical barriers and electronic interference) the signal has to go through to get to your phone, the worse the reception will be at any given distance, so there are a lot of potential influencing factors.
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That's why it's such a handicap not being able to test it on my home network at the moment where I could compare it to my experience with my previous android devices.
alot of routers no longer have external antennas reducing the possible range. just an idea but who knows
c_licious said:
Yea, just read your thread (slapping myself on the wrist for posting too soon). Unfortunately, it does seem to cause some instability for me as it occasionally disconnects completely due to the low signal.
Do you think this is the same for all devices and has just gone unnoticed for those who don't heavily rely on wifi. Or would an exchange be my best option at this point?
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure either way, actually. It may be something that can be fixed with a software update or tweak considering that the Nexus One(which has a noticable stronger signal) and the Nexus S seem to be pretty close in model number(BCM4329EKU86 Nexus One vs BCM4329GKUBG Nexus S).
I couldn't find a tear down that detailed the WiFi chip found in the Galaxy S devices which would be more useful for a comparison. So, I guess, my point is that it may be something a relevantly unnoticed flaw in the device itself and exchanging it might not do anything.
I guess this is our trade off for a working GPS unit?
I dont think its based off of root, i'm on stock, and the same thing happens to me!!
The Nexus S uses a low power wifi chip, which is thought to be the cause of this (VERY well known) weak wifi reception issue. Google "Nexus S weak wifi".
You can verify it easily by running a wifi sniffer (e.g. "Wifi Analyzer" from the market). The NS's reception drops quickly with distance from router. This isn't the router's fault.
ravidavi said:
The Nexus S uses a low power wifi chip, which is thought to be the cause of this (VERY well known) weak wifi reception issue. Google "Nexus S weak wifi".
You can verify it easily by running a wifi sniffer (e.g. "Wifi Analyzer" from the market). The NS's reception drops quickly with distance from router. This isn't the router's fault.
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Click to collapse
Definitely isnt the routers fault. I have two MTS, my original G1 and N1, Two Laptops a PS3 and a PSP.
This is the only device that struggles to find a signal.
jspookss said:
Definitely isnt the routers fault. I have two MTS, my original G1 and N1, Two Laptops a PS3 and a PSP.
This is the only device that struggles to find a signal.
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I am a former G1 guy myself, it had a very strong signal, Nexus S not so much. It is making me a bit irritated. It is an important feature sine I prefer to use wifi instead of 3G. It's much faster.
I have the same issue. When I turn on wifi the status icon takes about 20 seconds to turn from grey to green and on top of that even in the same room I don't get full bars. This really blows.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Hi there
I found a BIG limitation in the SG II Wifi.
The problem is that: the Wifi class on the SG II is N but each time you try to put it online, getting a signal from your router, your MAX wifi speed connection will be ALWAYS at 65mb/s
(off course my router support WiFi N and i perform a check also on other routers from friends of mine having, finally, the same result)
Now i'm running the custom rom from LitePro (K8 kernel based) and this problem still there.
I presume it is only a software limitation and not an hardware limitation.
Can someone find a solution? Is it maybe necessary to modify the apks that make the Wifi work like we did with the camera sound?
Borg3D5 said:
Hi there
I found a BIG limitation in the SG II Wifi.
The problem is that: the Wifi class on the SG II is N but each time you try to put it online, getting a signal from your router, your MAX wifi speed connection will be ALWAYS at 65mb/s
(off course my router support WiFi N and i perform a check also on other routers from friends of mine having, finally, the same result)
Now i'm running the custom rom from LitePro (K8 kernel based) and this problem still there.
I presume it is only a software limitation and not an hardware limitation.
Can someone find a solution? Is it maybe necessary to modify the apks that make the Wifi work like we did with the camera sound?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. How are you calculating the connection speed?
@wifi-settings, click on the connected network and the shown mbit's will never be over 65... And in the app: overlook fing (nice network tool) will say the same.
Why would you need 600 Mbps on a mobile phone?
I have an dual N band router too but seriously on my phone I don't see the point of more them 20 mbps...
jaapschaap said:
@wifi-settings, click on the connected network and the shown mbit's will never be over 65... And in the app: overlook fing (nice network tool) will say the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, exactly
Mew178 said:
Why would you need 600 Mbps on a mobile phone?
I have an dual N band router too but seriously on my phone I don't see the point of more them 20 mbps...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not?
If i pay a phone 600 euros and who made it tell me that the Wifi is N so i WANT a WiFi N because my money are real money, not charms
I a lot more concerned with battery life and wifi range on my G2 then how fast it goes
I noticed when I use G instead of N the range seems be increase.
Mew178 said:
I a lot more concerned with battery life and wifi range on my G2 then how fast it goes
I noticed when I use G instead of N the range seems be increase.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunatly i think that the battery problem is a tecnology problem: you have what you can have from this kind of tecnology, we can just make it a bit better but to have a reasonable time of charge we need a new kind of battery tecnology, compared to what the actual phone SLCD and Amoled screens ask to work .
Make sure you are on a channel without other APs.
To the OP, find an Android mobile phone that connects at a higher data speed than 65-72 Mbps and then come back with another dramatic thread.
Can you guys please do some research before making these dramatic threads?
Have u guys seen any difference in real life use ?
Forget about the numbers .
I always do video chats and works great.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
Borg3D5 said:
Hi there
I found a BIG limitation in the SG II Wifi.
The problem is that: the Wifi class on the SG II is N but each time you try to put it online, getting a signal from your router, your MAX wifi speed connection will be ALWAYS at 65mb/s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the expected speed of 802.11n on a small device.
QAM-64 modulation delivers at most 65-72Mbit/s on devices without MIMO. A cell phone will not have MIMO capability for cost and size reasons (requires several antennas).
No vendor provides MIMO wifi chips for cell-phone usage, so even if you tried you would get rotten battery life and a huge cell phone as the MIMO chipsets are designed for having mains power or laptop batteries, and the antennas need physical separation.
This assumes 20 MHz channel. 11n does allow for a 40MHz channel, but you will never get this in practice on the 2.4GHz band as the standard requires devices to look for interferers in the band and back off to 20MHz channel for a long time if they see any. Given how crowded the 2.4GHz band is you will always see interferers hence you will always be forced to use 20MHz channels.
Search for 802.11n-2009 on wikipedia. (I'd post the link but the forum will not allow it)
Nevermind wifi speed. I used to get good signal sat in bed with my sgs 1. With this one I get 1 bar or no connection at all. Sometimes if i turn the phone I get enough for it to resume a download.
Fair enough 1 bar gives suffient speed but it drops completely
I've tried playing with channels, changing n/g to just g etc but the signal is just weak. Nothing changed with my router, my old phone got 2/3 bar signal, my wife's HTC desire gets 2. The laptop full bars.
I'm hoping this will be fixed in a firmware update some time.
Shame cus otherwise I love this phone. (Although bit miffed with Yamaha instead of wolfsen sound, hope they release version with wolfsen. Or sgs3 )
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
65mb is more then u need in a phone wouldnt you think plus range like other have said is more important
Borg3D5 said:
Why not?
If i pay a phone 600 euros and who made it tell me that the Wifi is N so i WANT a WiFi N because my money are real money, not charms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well in theory you should get better range with n chipset (though some are reporting the opposite!)
So you pay more money to get N and with it better range and slightly better throughput than G ?
skibadee said:
Nevermind wifi speed. I used to get good signal sat in bed with my sgs 1. With this one I get 1 bar or no connection at all. Sometimes if i turn the phone I get enough for it to resume a download.
Fair enough 1 bar gives suffient speed but it drops completely
I've tried playing with channels, changing n/g to just g etc but the signal is just weak. Nothing changed with my router, my old phone got 2/3 bar signal, my wife's HTC desire gets 2. The laptop full bars.
I'm hoping this will be fixed in a firmware update some time.
Shame cus otherwise I love this phone. (Although bit miffed with Yamaha instead of wolfsen sound, hope they release version with wolfsen. Or sgs3 )
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same with me. Witn iPhone 4 I had 2 bars and good connection, with SGS2 I am forced to switch off wifi and using 3G instead, because no more than one bar of signal and I can't open any web page. I just ordered Netgear WN3000 repeater and I hope it will help me to increase the signal, but I will have more antennas in my bedroom to frying my small brain
Manafa said:
Same with me. Witn iPhone 4 I had 2 bars and good connection, with SGS2 I am forced to switch off wifi and using 3G instead, because no more than one bar of signal and I can't open any web page. I just ordered Netgear WN3000 repeater and I hope it will help me to increase the signal, but I will have more antennas in my bedroom to frying my small brain
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here!!!!!
I'm next to my router and I get 3/4 !!!!!
It's really a problem! I used to have signal in some areas, whereas now with GS II I get no signal at all
Manafa said:
Same with me. Witn iPhone 4 I had 2 bars and good connection, with SGS2 I am forced to switch off wifi and using 3G instead, because no more than one bar of signal and I can't open any web page. I just ordered Netgear WN3000 repeater and I hope it will help me to increase the signal, but I will have more antennas in my bedroom to frying my small brain
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my experience is different from yours. I get slightly better wifi reception than my captivate with wndr3700 router
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
I don't think the graphical representation on the notification bar is important. I've got better reception on my G router than I have with my htc hero.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
i dont see how this is such a big limitation. if youre gonna be that upset and nit picky about a device, then any phone u get thats worth any amount of money wont satisfy you.
Does anyone else have issue with the strength of the wireless radio on these. My signal is absolutely terrible. My phone gets better signal by A LOT. I am on the latest update not rooted.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA App
is the iconia slower than u r phone when surfing?
xceebeex said:
Does anyone else have issue with the strength of the wireless radio on these. My signal is absolutely terrible. My phone gets better signal by A LOT. I am on the latest update not rooted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep
In my back yard, the A500 cant 'see' my AP but my HD2 can (albeit only 1 bar BUT it is still usable)
Yup mine sucks as well... much worse than any of my phones.
I even tried put a copy of "iwconfig" into /system/bin
and then downloaded "Wifi txpower" from the market.
This gave me some control over the power output of the wifi card.
Except that my card was already at full power, so it did'nt improve anything,
I can at least lower power to conserve battery now...
I think a hardware mod to the internal antenna is what is really needed, although I don't think it's been done yet...
What specific versions are you running?
I keep signal (3-4 skulls) outside my flat and in the lift for about 2 floors.
Nothing wrong with the antenna (located at the lower lt corner of the tab).
Moscow Desire said:
What specific versions are you running?
I keep signal (3-4 skulls) outside my flat and in the lift for about 2 floors.
Nothing wrong with the antenna (located at the lower lt corner of the tab).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean what versions am I running? I have the latest 3.2.1 running and the wifi has never been good. If I had known it was going to be this bad I might have returned it. I think I am outside my return window though since I bought it on Thanksgiving.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA App
Bad, has been bad, and always will be (in my opinion). I have several of these and they are worse than other models. I've tried several ROM's and they don't make a difference. So therefore, I've come to the belief that it's the hardware.
TD
timmyDean said:
Bad, has been bad, and always will be (in my opinion). I have several of these and they are worse than other models. I've tried several ROM's and they don't make a difference. So therefore, I've come to the belief that it's the hardware.
TD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what I was afraid of. I am not sure if I should try and sell this and get something else or just deal with it, but it is certainly annoying and makes it pretty useless when it can't pick up wireless.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA App
Are there any other tricks that might get the wifi working better? Can rooting and installing a different ROM help?
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA App
aw crap, I was hoping for a software fix :/
My reception is abysmal. My laptop gets 4 out of 5 bars from my laptop, my crappy phone gets full bars of wifi, and my tab gets... 1-2 bars. It fluxuates from which way I hold it if I get any reception in the bathroom at all.
The first unit I bought had a defective Wi-Fi but was able to exchange it where I bought it for a functioning unit. Unfortunately, the new one is not spectacular but it does indeed work around my home, upstairs, downstairs and outside though the signal is pretty poor.
Must be a short or overly shielded antenna. My Droid X cellphone has excellent reception and three laptops have excellent reception albeit with multiple internal antennas.
Need to find an A500 tear-down online to see what it looks like inside to see what the antenna arrangement is. If it's somehow modifiable then it can likely be improved though you'll have to take it apart
Or search for a USB Wi-Fi that is usable with Android and this device!
Sounds like a design flaw to me.
qhorque said:
Must be a short or overly shielded antenna....
Need to find an A500 tear-down online to see what it looks like inside to see what the antenna arrangement is. If it's somehow modifiable then it can likely be improved though you'll have to take it apart....
Sounds like a design flaw to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I was thinking.
Here's a teardown...
xxx.techrepublic.com/photos/cracking-open-the-acer-iconia-tab-a500/6279615?tag=nl.e101
xxx.techrepublic.com/blog/itdojo/acer-iconia-tab-teardown-easy-to-service-3g-ready/2861?tag=nl.e101
I think this is where the Antenna is located...
xxx.techrepublic.com/photos/cracking-open-the-acer-iconia-tab-a500/6279615?seq=47
I can't post links yet, so just replace the xxx with www
Yeah, that looks like it and it looks like it's strung out along the top in landscape (or right in portrait). It's a bit away from the edge of the case but not buried too deep. It looks like a standard antenna length as compared to a laptop. Interesting that it's weak. Maybe the WLAN card is just a crappy performer. I'll have to look up that part number and see what its specs are.
Seems someone found a fix.....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1418875
~Sent from my Droid SuperCharge~
I just tested my a500 and HTC Rezound with wifi analyzer to compare and in the same location my rezound was at -40db and the a500 was at -65db so this is obviously a signicant issue.
Try setting the 11G channel number on your wireless router to something different. I had big problems with mine when the router was set to auto. I changed it to channel 6 and it started working great.
Not sure if the antenna is more sensitive to certain channels than others.
spike1969 said:
Try setting the 11G chann el number on your wireless router to something different. I had big problems with mine when the router was set to auto. I changed it to channel 6 and it started working great.
Not sure if the antenna is more sensitive to certain channels than others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt that is the issue since the channels are so close in frequency. Either way, neither my router nor access point are broadcasting on channel 11.
My GN3 is the best phone I've ever owned. It does everything I want except what it was originally built to do. I have the absolute worst service. If i flashed a new ROM would that improve the service? I know it did for my RAZR. Also the WIFI goes in and out constantly. Could a new ROM change that also? Any responses or recommendations would be great!
Thanks
BroadSword
The answer to your question sort of depends on info you didn't provide.
What I mean by that is that radio software NEVER changes raw RF signal strength.
Yeah, that's right - never. That is entirely a hardware/antenna thing.
It *can* change things that happen at the radio protocol level - things like tower selection, power output, modulation and coding selection, etc. And I suppose if there are bugs that cause intermittency, those could be due to software/firmware. So you need to distinguish between three different scenarios: (a) problems due simply to poor signal strength, (b) problems that happen even when the signal is strong, or (c) never observing strong signals even when in close proximity to the cell tower or WiFi router**
So... What are the signal strengths you observe (either cell or WiFi) when you have troubles? Report the values in "dBm", not "Signal Bars" - the latter means literally nothing.
And if you observe problems at -90 dBm, there might be nothing wrong with your device (there is very little "fade margin" above the noise floor and all devices will have problems due to weak signals). But if you see problems such as drop-outs when the signal strength is above (more positive) than -70 dBm, that could be either a hardware fault or a software bug.
If you never see signals above -75 dBm (Cell) or -45 dBm (WiFi in close proximity to the router), then you probably have a hardware problem and a ROM update won't change that.
So - your turn. What signal strengths are you seeing?
PS - on my Note3, the Cell signal strength reported in the Android settings app never seems to change so I conclude it isn't working (MJ7 ROM); I use the "RF Signal Tracker" app (Ken Hunt) for that. You can even drive around town and it will later plot on a map the observed signal strength values. That can be useful for determining if you just have weak signals at your home, or if they are weak everywhere. If you see the latter, you know you have a hardware problem.
Perversely, this app doesn't correctly report WiFi signal strengths on the N3 (it works OK on other Android devices I have); but you can use the "WiFi Analyzer" app (farproc) to observe WiFi signals in dBm.
FWIW, my Note 3 observes signals as strong as -35 dBm (1m from the router), and -51 dBm LTE (cell). It is possible that by driving around I might see even stronger cell signals; I haven't tried it yet in the 7 days I've had the N3.
HTH
** note that you could have problems with cell service/mobile data only, WiFi only, or problems with both if you are unlucky (they use separate radios and antennas).
I'm having issues as well. Never had a problem with the Note 2 , but the 3 likes to constantly drop out of 4G at home. It's odd because I've tested it against my old Droid Razr and they both get around the same signal (-106 dBm vs -105 dBm), however the Razr reliably holds the 4G signal and keeps a fairly consistent dBm reading, whereas the GN3 readings can get worse from time to time even in the same spot. I'm hoping it's software related and they'll fix it with a modem update... MJE didn't help me at all though.
Not to mention the poor battery life due to a low signal. I was very fortunate they turned on Band 4, otherwise I be looking at the same battery life I was getting with my iphone 5 around 6 to 12 hours.
I love my note 3, but the signal quality has me rethinking my decision to keep it.
@bodieism
Your principal trouble is very poor signal. (-105 dBm)
I mean, I get it that individuals aren't going move in order to improve their cell service, and the carrier is unlikely to install a new tower because of a single customer request about poor signal strength.
That only leaves a presumption that handset choice is a consumer option to "fix" a poor signal. (Or repeaters, but that's an expensive solution).
But I would caution that trying to make comparisons of "A vs. B" in areas with terrible reception is fraught with all sorts of methodology and interpretation problems. I can observe > 10 dBm signal strength changes due to orientation and "How I'm holding it" (LOL) changes alone while sitting in one spot on my couch. Imagine that I had an average signal level only 5 dBm above the noise floor - you shouldn't believe a handset comparison I made in that case unless I made it clear that I'd been exhaustive about test conditions.
Simply put, I wouldn't put much stock in undisciplined, anecdotal reports that come from fringe reception areas.
As you noted, the MJE update did nothing for you. But that's not a surprise - no amount of software is going to overcome lack of signal.
Maybe a complaint to Verizon might result in something measurable happening - squeaky wheel and all that. But you will be unlikely to get anything from them if you live in a rural or low population density area.
Any idea what this is saying. Looks like I'm connected to a tower that is over 6,000 miles away
Take a sec and hit thanks if I helped or if you're in a good mood!
bskarpa said:
Any idea what this is saying. Looks like I'm connected to a tower that is over 6,000 miles away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That app doesn't have a complete tower database, so it just picks the geolocation info seemingly at random (or maybe one per continent). I don't think I have ever seen that app feature work for VZW towers; it might work for GSM networks tho.
I think it relies on public (crowd sourced) data for tower geolocation info, so that particular feature is probably only useful in metro areas and maybe not even then.
bftb0 said:
That app doesn't have a complete tower database, so it just picks the geolocation info seemingly at random (or maybe one per continent). I don't think I have ever seen that app feature work for VZW towers; it might work for GSM networks tho.
I think it relies on public (crowd sourced) data for tower geolocation info, so that particular feature so it is probably only useful in metro areas and maybe not even then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK thanks bud. I know here around town by my daughter's school which is only like a mile or less away from my house I get awesome signal but here at the house its around -75db give or take.
I looked on the net to see what towers were around and it came back as (see the attachment) which is pretty interesting.
Take a sec and hit thanks if I helped or if you're in a good mood!
@bskarpa what Internet site did you use? (-75 dBm is a pretty decent signal btw)
That app says my tower is 6224 miles away in Croatia. Apparently tower numbers are not globally unique (as that record matches the observed tower # I have for my service)
bftb0 said:
As you noted, the MJE update did nothing for you. But that's not a surprise - no amount of software is going to overcome lack of signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Droid Razr, Note 2, and my GF's S3 all overcome the lack of signal with no problem at all. You'd think since Samsung can make 2 devices that can maintain a weak 4G signal that their newest phone could do the same, but apparently it can't, whether it be hardware or software related.
bftb0 said:
@bskarpa what Internet site did you use? (-75 dBm is a pretty decent signal btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.antennasearch.com/
Take a sec and hit thanks if I helped or if you're in a good mood!
bodieism said:
My Droid Razr, Note 2, and my GF's S3 all overcome the lack of signal with no problem at all. You'd think since Samsung can make 2 devices that can maintain a weak 4G signal that their newest phone could do the same, but apparently it can't, whether it be hardware or software related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't doubt at all that your description of your experience(s) are anything but truthful.
And I don't doubt that some handsets are better than others when it comes to raw RF signal strength. For instance, (older gear) the Samsung Galaxy Fascinate had simply horrid GPS reception at a time when handsets and GPS receivers from other OEM vendors (and far less expensive devices, I might add) were perfectly fine. You couldn't get a reliable lock inside a vehicle, and you could barely get one with a completely clear sky to the horizon in 360 degrees.
The thing is, Samsung isn't making the radio silicon nor the radio firmware; so in the case of the Note 3, if there is a different vendor using the same Qualcomm MSM8974/S800 SOC with better reception, that would probably imply that Samsung sucks at understanding antenna modeling or RF interconnect modeling... or they just don't care enough in their rush to get their devices to market.
The other thing to consider is that the decision space that a handset needs to operate in is pretty complicated, as there are both 4G and 3G bands available, variable block resource allocations, variable coding & modulation schemes, etc, and the ability to switch between them in agile fashion might mean that there is a lot of stuff going on thousands of times per second - while the little idiot light in the notification bar probably only gets updated on the order of once a second. I suppose it is feasible that in fringe LTE reception areas it might even be possible that reversion to 3G produces better bandwidth in some situations (neither LTE nor EVDO are "all-or-nothing" affairs when it comes to bandwidth). If that were indeed the case, the fact that "4G" didn't show up on the device's notification bar might not mean too much.
In any event, a better comparative measure of handset performance would be actual data transfer rates measured at the same (weak signal) locations throughout different times of the day (to avoid confusing a transient cell congestion or interference issue as being the fault of a specific handset being tested). Then we'd be looking at what is really important to folks in that situation - actual bandwidth achieved instead of an indicator light status. I think that would be pretty diagnostic.
cheers
bftb0 said:
The other thing to consider is that the decision space that a handset needs to operate in is pretty complicated, as there are both 4G and 3G bands available, variable block resource allocations, variable coding & modulation schemes, etc, and the ability to switch between them in agile fashion might mean that there is a lot of stuff going on thousands of times per second - while the little idiot light in the notification bar probably only gets updated on the order of once a second. I suppose it is feasible that in fringe LTE reception areas it might even be possible that reversion to 3G produces better bandwidth in some situations (neither LTE nor EVDO are "all-or-nothing" affairs when it comes to bandwidth). If that were indeed the case, the fact that "4G" didn't show up on the device's notification bar might not mean too much.
In any event, a better comparative measure of handset performance would be actual data transfer rates measured at the same (weak signal) locations throughout different times of the day (to avoid confusing a transient cell congestion or interference issue as being the fault of a specific handset being tested). Then we'd be looking at what is really important to folks in that situation - actual bandwidth achieved instead of an indicator light status. I think that would be pretty diagnostic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not really necessary. I've never had issues with the speed while the phone is in 4G at home. The problem comes from it constantly wanting to drop to 3G. The quality of my Netflix shows dropping is one of the things that tips me off to having been bumped to 3G. Lately I've been putting my sim card into the Razr while I'm home and turning on the wifi hotspot. That way I can just use wifi on the Note 3 to avoid the annoying 3G bumps and subsequent crappy Netflix resolution. While I suppose I could go through the trouble of testing the different handset speeds in the same location at different times of the day, I have a suspicion that the download speeds will be similar if they both happen to be in 4G during the test. In fact, I wouldn't even be surprised if the Note 3 is faster while in 4G.
You can chalk it up to any reason you want, but in any event, my Note 3 can't hold onto a weak 4G signal anywhere near as good as any of my previous phones.
bftb0 said:
@bskarpa what Internet site did you use? (-75 dBm is a pretty decent signal btw)
That app says my tower is 6224 miles away in Croatia. Apparently tower numbers are not globally unique (as that record matches the observed tower # I have for my service)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The one in my screen shot is www.antennasearch.com, sorry so late, I just now saw this.