Database Users

A few notes about the camera (it isn't bad)

Lots of people are unhappy with the camera on the Z. I'm into photography and I thought I'd have a play with it to see what I could find out. I thought I'd post this as it may help people get more out of the camera and understand why they are getting bad results. I was initially very unhappy with low light shots, especially compared with my old Xperia Arc. I am now getting vastly better results.
1. "Superior Auto Mode" SUCKS. Really, really sucks.
Why?
First, it applies some sort of hyper-aggressive noise reduction/sharpening to most images. This means that even if you get a good capture, this mode then does its best to ruin it for you by artificially stuffing up details and actually adding noise (via over-aggressive processing).
Second, it does really stupid things with ISO. You may notice that on manual settings, ISO only goes up to 1600 (which is still way too high for this sensor). However, in auto, the camera will go up to at least ISO 2500 (confirmed by checking exif data). This is extremely bad for image quality and introduces huge amounts of colour noise which simply cannot be overcome by post processing. In addition, in auto mode the camera is very "high ISO happy", so it will bump up the ISO very quickly even in moderately good conditions.
What's more, while you can't use the (dubious) image stabilisation at manual ISO settings, you can you HDR. So you can get good night or dusk shots by using HDR and (say) ISO 400 in normal mode, which I deal with below.
Overall, I would avoid this mode unless you are in bright conditions or just need to get a basic shot without caring about quality.
2. HDR mode is real, but the images it takes are not taken simultaneously.
I'm sure I read Sony claiming that the sensor was in some way three layered and therefore that it could take HDR shots instantly. The reality is that while HDR mode works (weakly), it actually takes three separate shots over the space of maybe half a second.
The problem with this is that if things are moving in your image, they will either blur or have ghosts of themselves in the photo.
I verified this by taking an HDR shot of traffic at an intersection. I was able to see very dark and very light 'ghost' images of moving cars, even though the rest of the image was sharp and clear.
From this I am guessing that Sony has implemented an edge-matching algorithm to process the three exposures into one. This can cope with some camera shake, but cannot cope with actual fast moving objects. This theory is supported by the fact that the image size drops by one megapixel for HDR, i.e., the camera is giving itself a "border" to allow for shake.
It is also apparent that the level of HDR processing is very weak compared to what is possible with a proper camera and proper software. The exposure range and the amount of weight given to the high and low range exposures is very weak (confirmed by the level of saturation of the "ghost" cars in my test image, which were fairly faint).
Others have reported that the video quality suffers with HDR on. This is consistent with the HDR having to take triple the exposures then process them on the fly.
3. Image stabilisation is a gimmick
In manual mode, you can turn on image stabilisation. However, when you do this, you can't set a manual ISO level and can't use HDR. This strongly suggests that all that "image stabilisation" is really doing is messing with your ISO settings (as per "superior auto mode") to increase shutter speed in difficult conditions by ramping up ISO. This, of course, destroys quality.
4. You can use normal mode to control the ISO and get much better results, including at night
If you choose "normal" shooting mode, and then go to settings and scroll down, you will find an option to set the ISO of the camera manually.
Playing with this, I have been able to get much, much better results from the camera than are achievable either in "superior auto" mode or in any mode where ISO is set to "auto".
Specifically, I would say that the camera produces fair to excellent results (for a phone camera) at any ISO below 400, and acceptable results at 800 in some conditions. However, 1600 produces very noisy images and should be avoided if you are after image quality (as should 800, to be safe). That is consistent with the size of the camera and sensor. Even fairly good consumer DSLRs struggle at or above 1600, so it is not surprising that a tiny phone camera struggles at or above 800.
Using the camera at ISO 400 I have been able to take shots in very dark conditions which look great and show relatively little noise.
The lens is f/2.4 at its fastest, which is not ultra fast, but fast enough to capture a decent amount of light at ISO 400 or 800. You are better off sticking to these ISO levels and trying to physically stabilise your camera (i.e., balance it on something solid) than killing you image quality with higher ISO settings.
A comparison suggests that "normal" mode doesn't apply the stupid levels of sharpening and noise reduction (so called) that superior auto mode does. Shots seem to retain most of the natural sharpness and detail that the camera is clearly capable of producing.
5. The flash is bad but better than most
Direct flash generally sucks, and mobile phone flashes generally suck. Combine them for a lot of suckiness.
However, Sony has done a solid job with this flash, given the baseline difficulties with any direct flash. It doesn't seem to blast its subject and it seems to be at a low enough level to let ambient light fill in the background. I was able to get acceptable results in normal mode at ISO 400.
6. Metering
The metering on the camera is quite aggressive in its centre-weighted variation. If you are finding that photos of a light or dark object are causing the rest of the scene to blow out or go too dark, try the full averaged metering mode (which is slightly dark, but does a decent job).
7. My suggested settings
A. Daytime: Normal mode; ISO 100; HDR off (to avoid ghosts on moving objects); flash off.
B. Nightime: Normal mode; ISO 400; HDR off unless taking pics of buildings and holding camera v steady; metering full scene; flash off.
C. I want to produce horrible photos then complain: Superior Auto Mode.
I hope this helps someone! Using setting A above this camera produces some stunning pictures in good light. Using setting B it produces very good night pictures for a camera phone, particularly if you shoot at the highest resolution then resize later.

One other thing - what I would like to see Sony do to improve the camera so that users get the most out of it...
1. Dramatically reduce the default image processing in auto mode
2. Add a smart ISO setting, where the user can control the maximum ISO that the camera will select on "auto ISO". E.g. allow the user to set ISO800 as a cap, but have the camera use a lower setting if suitable for the conditions.
3. Add advanced options to allow the user to contol noise reduction and sharpening.
4. (In fantasy land) add a full manual mode.

What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?

JPWOA said:
What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?
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Click to collapse
No, that's focus mode (which I don't have strong views about - I prefer single point for more control, personally). I.e., the way in which the camera picks the subject which will be in focus.
I'm talking about exposure, i.e., how the camera works out how bright or dark the scene is. In "normal" mode, if you go to settings, then scroll down, you will see a metering option. The choices are centre, average or spot.
I'm suggesting that at night "average" will be most useful as "centre" or "spot" take a limited part of the image and base exposure on that. At night a limited part of the image is likely to be extremely dark or light, which will make the exposure go nuts.
During the day "centre" works ok for specific subjects, and average is good for evenly lit scenes.

Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?

caitsith01 said:
...
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Agreed on pretty much most of what you say, in addition other camera apps that allow you to save 100% jpg quality or save as png also help.
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Apart from that some good information shared.
---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------
juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
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Click to collapse
Yes and no, because Sony are still processing the image to create the jpg files, and not saving at 100%. Think of RAW, I always shoot in RAW because then I am in control of the processing on the image WB,Sharpness,Brightness... not my camera.
Burst mode is great, because the Sony algorithms don't have time to apply all the settings to all the photos before they are written, so just pretty much write the file (like jpg in raw jpg). So a combo of all these things will significantly help further. To better this even further there are other camera apps that allow you to save at 100% jpg or even png for RAW like capture to a lesser extent

danw_oz said:
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
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Click to collapse
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.

juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen that thread - in my opinion the burst pics look similar to those I have been able to achieve in normal mode, i.e., nice clean edges, not a lot of detail loss, not a lot of noise added by over-sharpening.
I imagine the reason is that the camera isn't fast enough to ruin... er... process pictures when shooting in burst mode. Burst mode has some resolution limitations, though, plus who wants 10 copies of every photo?
To be honest many of the daytime shots I've taken look pretty close to what you would expect from an enthusiast compact, like one of the Leica-Panasonic or Canon G-series cameras. Not quite there, but close (and obviously lacking optical zoom).

Well i don't know but i took some samples for a quick compare. Though even the BURST Mode pics are a bit smaller in size, they give you still the most detail and Pictures overall look much better. That's at least my impression.
1- Burst Mode
2- Snap Camera (PlayStore)
3- Supperior Auto
4- Normal Mode ISO 100
5- HDR Kamera (PlayStore)
Decide for yourself.

caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
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Click to collapse
I am talk serious gear, not cheap 50mm lenses. And I didn't ask you if you could find cheap lenses, I asked you how many lenses you have faster than f2.4.
For solid low light performance, I would not be using a smart phone, nor would most others I am sure. Most people are using phones for snap shots nothing serious, or to capture that once off shot because you didn't have a better camera on hand.
Not any phones that I am aware of below f2.0

caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again

Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
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totally agree, most of all on superior auto...
normal mode, same photo,auto is 400 iso...manual iso 200 (just a little darker) superior auto 800/1600 iso
superior auto can be good only on daylight (difference between 40 and 100 is really small)

sacredsoul said:
Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!

fartlec said:
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that you can resolve those nameplates better in the burst mode picture, even though I think it might be slightly lower resolution (?). The "normal" mode shot looks softer, but looks to me like it still has less aggressive noise reduction/sharpening than the "superior auto" shot. I would like to know what ISO these were at - unfortunately the EXIF data has been stripped out.
Another area where the three pictures are noticeably different is the curtains in the lowest row of windows. The burst mode output is noticeably sharper. Normal mode is a bit more smudged and has the characteristic "painted" look of over-aggressive noise reduction, and superior auto mode is even worse in this regard (as well as the colour being completely different).
I obviously don't know exactly what's happening inside the camera, my original post is just what I've tried to work out from playing around with different settings.
I can say for sure that there was a drastic difference in noise for me taking the same dark night scene using superior auto and then manually dialling down the ISO. Using superior auto the noise in darker areas was so bad that the image was unusable, even for social media etc, whereas at ISO 400 it was acceptable and could have come from a reasonable quality compact camera. It may be that the ISO level is the primary problem, and that the aggressive denoise/sharpen algorithms make the problem worse (because running these on a super-noisy picture will produce messy results). So it might be running the same level of denoise etc in both modes, but because superior auto produces such messy base images the filters then make the pictures look shocking.
It really needs a "raw" mode, either producing real RAW images or producing "straight out of camera" JPEGS with minimal filtering.

caitsith01 said:
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah thank you. So for indoor pictures, if I wanted to see the preview, I don't have a choice but to increase ISO? That sucks really

I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP

sillypilot said:
I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exemples ?

I also use the 4.2 camera. For me it's faster and the photos it makes are on par with the ones made using burst.
I've patched the 4.2 camera to support all of the resolutions Z/ZL support (9, 13, etc).
I'm uploading it now.
Update: here's the link

A few shots from yesterday.
At the car
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20Burstmode.JPG
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20iAuto.jpg
At my parkingspace
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20iAuto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Burst.JPG
Normal, 100ISO, HDR On
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Normal%20100ISO%20HDR%20On.jpg
Window shot
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Auto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Burst.JPG
So what do you think? There are some differences between the pictures indeed.

Z1 Camera Comparison: Google Nexus 5 vs iPhone 5s, Sony Xperia Z1, Samsung Galaxy Not

There have been a few amateur comparisons posted here in this thread, which frankly aren't very accurate or well done, nor are the small 1-page or even 1 paragraph reviews of the camera buried inside the overall phone review on many tech media websites. So I found a much more professional and also the most in depth camera shootout on the web at this time. Unlike what some would have you believe, the Xperia Z1 possesses one of the highest scoring smartphone cameras. There were so many photos taken in this extensive review that I'm not even going to try reproducing them all here. What I will do is post Phonearena's rankings for each category and leave it to you to hit up this link for the full article
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Outdoors at night time were a disappointment, so in this case I would suggest NOT using Superior Auto mode for those shots, as many others have suggested. Try Manual, 8MP, auto ISO, -1 to -2 ev

For a more professional touch I went to one of the most credible photography sites and got their take on the Z1 Camera comparisons. You can read the full shootout here. They were very critical of all tested phones, however the Z1 again did very well on this site:
In our tests the Nokia Lumia 1020 arguably offers the best all-around image quality. It captures great detail in good light and its Xenon flash provides excellent performance in very dim light situations. There is a lot of luminance noise in its high-ISO output but chroma noise is well under control and the very large 38MP image files mean that at normal viewing and printing sizes noise becomes much less visible.
If you only want to share your pictures online you can also set the device to only save 5MP images and conserve space in the phone's internal memory. Thanks to Nokia's clever downsampling algorithms the lower resolution images are comparatively clean even at higher ISOs and still show good detail. They might look a little oversharpened for some people's taste though.
The 1020 only struggled in our night shot. We took 30 shots with the Nokia but the shutter speed in such a dark environment was just too slow to get even a single 100% sharp image. In those situations we recommend upping the ISO manually in order to achieve a faster shutter speed. As we've already pointed out in our full review, the Nokia's performance can occasionally feel a little sluggish.
The Sony Xperia Z1 also offers very high resolution results, but suffers from noise and artifacts at all ISO settings. This is only really visible at large magnifications though and the Sony's good exposure and usually pleasant color response make it a good alternative for those who only share their pictures online at smaller resolutions. Another advantage of the Sony is that thanks to its responsiveness and dedicated shutter button, in terms of operations it comes as close to a compact camera as a smartphone can get.
The LG G2's image quality is not quite on the same level as the Nokia's and Sony's. Its efficient optical image stabilization helps keep things very steady in low light but very strong noise reduction is applied at all ISO levels and its auto white balance tends to capture slightly cool colors. Like the Sony, its LED flash cannot compete with the much more powerful units on the Nokia and Samsung. There's nothing wrong with the LG's camera but its image quality is simply not up there with the best of the 2013 smartphone generation.
Despite its 1/2.3 sensor the Samsung Galaxy S4 Zoom doesn't capture any more detail than the current generation of smartphones. In fact, the lens of our test unit appeared to be slightly soft at its wide angle setting. However, the Samsung is worth a look for those mobile photographer who want a powerful flash and an optical zoom
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Unlike the Phonearena comparisons, in this case the Z1 took much nicer outdoor night time photos.

omnius1 said:
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Surprising that G2 would do better than Z1 in low light.
omnius1 said:
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This one needs serious work from Sony. Samsung is the king when it comes to panorama.
omnius1 said:
Outdoors at night time were a disappointment, so in this case I would suggest NOT using Superior Auto mode for those shots, as many others have suggested. Try Manual, 8MP, auto ISO, -1 to -2 ev
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Click to collapse
You mean that all these photos were taken with SA ?
This isn't a camera shootout. Its a shootout over how well the auto program works in each phone. If that's in various stages of maturity then this review is not representative. There are no reference shots so how do we know which camer got it right or over exposed/underexposed.
Apple won't allow access to ISO in the api, you cannot set ISO in an iphone.
From the article..
Focal length of Htc one - 28mm
focal length of Z1 - 27mm
hmm, Z1 must be doing some serious cropping here.
Does not distinguish between 2-axis OIS vs 3-axs OIS.

One Twelve said:
This one needs serious work from Sony. Samsung is the king when it comes to panorama.
You mean that all these photos were taken with SA ?
This isn't a camera shootout. Its a shootout over how well the auto program works in each phone. If that's in various stages of maturity then this review is not representative. There are no reference shots so how do we know which camer got it right or over exposed/underexposed.
Apple won't allow access to ISO in the api, you cannot set ISO in an iphone.
From the article..
Focal length of Htc one - 28mm
focal length of Z1 - 27mm
hmm, Z1 must be doing some serious cropping here.
Does not distinguish between 2-axis OIS vs 3-axs OIS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? I think this is the most extensive comparison we can find so far on the web. I didn't pick apart the engineering specs behind it, but I think the photos they took with the Z1 looked fantastic against the competition. Which is what it's all about really. With the exception of the outdoor night and pano, I agree.
No they didn't have reference shots but they did take DSLR photos I think as well. However you have to read the article as well, where they do specifically mention which shots were closer in color and detail to the actual live scene.
However if you look at the night shots the digital camera review site took with it, his are actually pretty good in comparison.
Surprising that G2 would do better than Z1 in low light.
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Click to collapse
I don't think it did, that was an outdoor night ranking, they posted a separate ranking for indoor low light

Thanks for sharing the phonearena link, I hadn't seen it
Sent from my Xperia Z1 using Tapatalk

omnius1 said:
Really? I think this is the most extensive comparison we can find so far on the web. I didn't pick apart the engineering specs behind it, but I think the photos they took with the Z1 looked fantastic against the competition. Which is what it's all about really.
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Original photos here
omnius1 said:
No they didn't have reference shots but they did take DSLR photos I think as well. However you have to read the article as well, where they do specifically mention which shots were closer in color and detail to the actual live scene.
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Read it now and i realise they DID provide reference shots with the panasonic lumix so this at least is better than other reviews i've seen.
omnius1 said:
I don't think it did, that was an outdoor night ranking, they posted a separate ranking for indoor low light
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Click to collapse
The problem with auto is its quite variable. I think of it as a random sampling. Lumia has problems with white balance which can be set manually. The night time shots with lumia which has the slowest exposure of 4s should beat the competition. But if auto did not do it correct then the 1020 gets a low score.
The problem i have generally with these sorts of comparisons is it requires expert users of the cameras concerned to see the best the camera can provide. Auto is not going to do this. Auto will tell you that chances are your experience is going to be similar but then the sample size is small, so its 50-50. You might get better shots or worse than what is shown here.
In other words take this review along with others with a grain of salt

I don't view this review as gospel of course, but in lieu of any others, it's the more extensive than any others I've seen on the Web. I took it for what it's worth, which is to say that the Z1 camera performed quite a bit better than what some individual posters or bloggers would have you believe. Could it be better? Sure, there's always room for improvement. Is it still really good? It looks so.
Sent from my Sony Xperia Z1

which firmware ? LG G2 better in low light ! its very very OverProcessed and Smoothed ...

Let's go to town on this one
omnius1 said:
Outdoors at night time were a disappointment, so in this case I would suggest NOT using Superior Auto mode for those shots, as many others have suggested. Try Manual, 8MP, auto ISO, -1 to -2 ev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Church
LG (1/12s, ISO 800, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/13s, ISO 400. 20MP, Auto)
The LG took a cleaner shot at twice the ISO as the Z1. Z1 in this review is using the latest .257 firmware.
The Z1 looks little over exposed. It's a pity they didn't take an 8MP as the noise would be less. Cannot see any camera shake here. ISO 200 might have been more clean.
Side street
LG (Shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto) Since this one is more clear, i assume it was taken at a faster shutter speed.
Z1 (1/8s, ISO 400, 20MP, Auto).
Reference (2 sec, ISO 160, 15.9MP, Auto)
Obvious camera shake if you see the moneygram sign on the left. camera shake affects picture quality.
1020 (1/8, ISO 800, 38.2MP, Auto) This one is clear.
Intersection
LG (1/14, ISO 400, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/20, ISO 500, 20MP, Auto)
No noticeable camera shake here. Z1 still looks over exposed. ISO 200 with little EV would have been better.
Building
LG (1/15, ISO 300, 20MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/32, ISO 320, 20MP, Auto)
These look pretty similar, Z1 could have done with ISO 200. Also a spot meter rather than centre-weighted in an area between light & dark could have helped.
Bench
LG (shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/8, ISO 400, 13, Auto)
Clear example where manual EV compensation would have brought out more details in both cameras and they could have used a lower ISO. So you can see how Auto can get it wrong some times. And scores averaged off auto will be equally flawed.
1020 (0.3s, ISO 4000,38.2MP, 17.2MB)
Reference (0.3s, ISO 1250, 15.9MP, 5.5MB, Low contrast, Manual WB)
It's curious why the LG dropped shutter & ISO info twice out of 4 pictures.

One Twelve said:
Let's go to town on this one
Church
LG (1/12s, ISO 800, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/13s, ISO 400. 20MP, Auto)
The LG took a cleaner shot at twice the ISO as the Z1. Z1 in this review is using the latest .257 firmware.
The Z1 looks little over exposed. It's a pity they didn't take an 8MP as the noise would be less. Cannot see any camera shake here. ISO 200 might have been more clean.
Side street
LG (Shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto) Since this one is more clear, i assume it was taken at a faster shutter speed.
Z1 (1/8s, ISO 400, 20MP, Auto).
Reference (2 sec, ISO 160, 15.9MP, Auto)
Obvious camera shake if you see the moneygram sign on the left. camera shake affects picture quality.
1020 (1/8, ISO 800, 38.2MP, Auto) This one is clear.
Intersection
LG (1/14, ISO 400, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/20, ISO 500, 20MP, Auto)
No noticeable camera shake here. Z1 still looks over exposed. ISO 200 with little EV would have been better.
Building
LG (1/15, ISO 300, 20MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/32, ISO 320, 20MP, Auto)
These look pretty similar, Z1 could have done with ISO 200. Also a spot meter rather than centre-weighted in an area between light & dark could have helped.
Bench
LG (shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/8, ISO 400, 13, Auto)
Clear example where manual EV compensation would have brought out more details in both cameras and they could have used a lower ISO. So you can see how Auto can get it wrong some times. And scores averaged off auto will be equally flawed.
1020 (0.3s, ISO 4000,38.2MP, 17.2MB)
Reference (0.3s, ISO 1250, 15.9MP, 5.5MB, Low contrast, Manual WB)
It's curious why the LG dropped shutter & ISO info twice out of 4 pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
never seen such bad low light fotos from the z1 before ... sure you know what i mean cuz you know the pics i take from the flickr Set !
thats one photo just with manual and night scene ! i will not follow any photo comparisons from reviewers anyMORE !!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/10985713943/in/set-72157637726566185

ashouhdy said:
never seen such bad low light fotos from the z1 before ... sure you know what i mean cuz you know the pics i take from the flickr Set !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Your photos are adequate proof of what a few tweaks here & there can do to overall picture quality, with any phone.
But nearly all your photos are 8MP. I found a couple at 20MP. People want to know why 20MP cannot do good shots if 1020 at 38.3MP can do it. But you can if people look at these two
20MP
8MP
The 8MP is correctly exposed, but if you used ISO 200 with the 20MP it also would have been the same.
Plus you use the slowest shutter speeds possible ie 0.8s going no faster than 0.3s. Other than the 1020 which can go as slow as 4s, none of the cameras reviewed can go slower than 0.3s. In this review the slowest shutter on the Z1 is 1/8 and they still got blur in one. So people will look at this review and think G2 can do better outdoors night shots than Z1

One Twelve said:
Exactly. Your photos are adequate proof of what a few tweaks here & there can do to overall picture quality, with any phone.
But nearly all your photos are 8MP. I found a couple at 20MP. People want to know why 20MP cannot do good shots if 1020 at 38.3MP can do it. But you can if people look at these two
20MP
8MP
The 8MP is correctly exposed, but if you used ISO 200 with the 20MP it also would have been the same.
Plus you use the slowest shutter speeds possible ie 0.8s going no faster than 0.3s. Other than the 1020 which can go as slow as 4s, none of the cameras reviewed can go slower than 0.3s. In this review the slowest shutter on the Z1 is 1/8 and they still got blur in one. So people will look at this review and think G2 can do better outdoors night shots than Z1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its the night scene that puts the shutter to 1/8 ... Also i doubt the LG can get close to the low light performance of the Z1 Due to Sensor Size 1/2.3" vs 1/3"
And Yes the 20MP i guess its as if a RAW image ... but thats my sensation am not sure. Also i noticed that with 20MP the Bionz Procss. imaging Ship is Deactivated.
i Guess Sony Tweaked the Phone for the Optimium 8MP with Pixels Binning and the BionZ image ship.
the last pic i posted the FOG is amazingly clean ... believe me some Hand As Shot DigiCams will not capture the Fog that clean.
i will try to take some 20MP vs 8MP in other time

They did not use night mode in any shots. It was all auto for every camera. if auto was so good then why are these modes present in the camera in the first place. They are specialised presets for special situations. Auto cannot do it all (unless its iphone) that is why they are there.
Remember wezzel's laser shots, they were ISO 200 with +2EV.
(in theory) ISO 200 +2EV is like ISO 800 with 0EV. Not sure if its completely linear.
Difference is ISO 200 is fine grain whereas ISO 800 is more grainy.
One thing i notice in the first LG night shot, G2 is using ISO 800 but the shot is quite clear, I do not see much noise. Also in the last one the 1020 is using ISO 4000. Again very clear shot. If you try ISO 4000 with Z1 you will get an oil painting.
Clean low light shots with Z1 = low ISO + slow shutter speed (+ EV if necessary).
Z1 sensor cannot produce clean shots with high ISO. Which is a pity beause shutter speed will be much faster so chances of blur are much lower. The result is you got to work harder to get good shots with Z1 but when you do the others cannot match it, barring the 1020 ofc.
20MP jpg is not RAW its jpg.
RAW is TIFF ie no compression.

One Twelve said:
They did not use night mode in any shots. It was all auto for every camera. if auto was so good then why are these modes present in the camera in the first place. They are specialised presets for special situations. Auto cannot do it all (unless its iphone) that is why they are there.
Remember wezzel's laser shots, they were ISO 200 with +2EV.
(in theory) ISO 200 +2EV is like ISO 800 with 0EV. Not sure if its completely linear.
Difference is ISO 200 is fine grain whereas ISO 800 is more grainy.
One thing i notice in the first LG night shot, G2 is using ISO 800 but the shot is quite clear, I do not see much noise. Also in the last one the 1020 is using ISO 4000. Again very clear shot. If you try ISO 4000 with Z1 you will get an oil painting.
Clean low light shots with Z1 = low ISO + slow shutter speed (+ EV if necessary).
Z1 sensor cannot produce clean shots with high ISO. Which is a pity beause shutter speed will be much faster so chances of blur are much lower. The result is you got to work harder to get good shots with Z1 but when you do the others cannot match it, barring the 1020 ofc.
20MP jpg is not RAW its jpg.
RAW is TIFF ie no compression.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also the SA somtimes kicks the ISO up to 1600 with the night mode i've seen it many times. SA puts a night scene down beside a guy running (i guess it means hand held) the average is ISO 1600 with 1/8 exposure (the rail way photo in my set) and yes leads to blur free images as advertised.
Also did you noticed that the LG pics the over all scene is not bright just the Centre where it is meant to focus .. in contraversry the Z1 all around scene is much brighter the church photo is a good example.
if i tab to focus on the church i guess u could get similar results with lg

That's good review!

One Twelve said:
They did not use night mode in any shots. It was all auto for every camera. if auto was so good then why are these modes present in the camera in the first place. They are specialised presets for special situations. Auto cannot do it all (unless its iphone) that is why they are there.
Remember wezzel's laser shots, they were ISO 200 with +2EV.
(in theory) ISO 200 +2EV is like ISO 800 with 0EV. Not sure if its completely linear.
Difference is ISO 200 is fine grain whereas ISO 800 is more grainy.
One thing i notice in the first LG night shot, G2 is using ISO 800 but the shot is quite clear, I do not see much noise. Also in the last one the 1020 is using ISO 4000. Again very clear shot. If you try ISO 4000 with Z1 you will get an oil painting.
Clean low light shots with Z1 = low ISO + slow shutter speed (+ EV if necessary).
Z1 sensor cannot produce clean shots with high ISO. Which is a pity beause shutter speed will be much faster so chances of blur are much lower. The result is you got to work harder to get good shots with Z1 but when you do the others cannot match it, barring the 1020 ofc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So basically what I take from this is that as long as you take the time to learn how to optimize the settings for certain scenes that auto superior doesn't handle well, we've got one of the best smartphone cameras available
Sent from my Sony Xperia Z1

omnius1 said:
So basically what I take from this is that as long as you take the time to learn how to optimize the settings for certain scenes that auto superior doesn't handle well, we've got one of the best smartphone cameras available
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but many will not be prepared to put in that effort.
Once you've driven 10,000 miles handling a car is second nature, almost reflexive.
Once you've taken over a 1000 photos the same applies with any phone camera. Ideally, with experience, you see a shot, know what exposure to use regardless of the lighting, click and get it right more times than not. This is a skill. People want to get it right with no skill. In good light you can get away with it, once the light dips it gets harder.
Phone cameras still do not help to get a good shot unlike dslrs. You have no clue what the sensor sees and decides to use for ISO/shutter speed, i wish it would display that info before taking the photo. What it thinks TTL (through the lens) is the best setting to use to get a properly exposed shot. So you take the shot, preview, tweak, try again until right. It could be easier.
There is no over-exposure warning. This is something i think should be possible with current tech. Its still too easy to overexpose in good light as well as low light with a well lit subject. Phone cameras by default, operate in aperture priority mode, cannot change aperture so they pick the right shutter speed/ISO to get the best shot. They choose wrong on occasion.
SCN modes is an attempt to fill that gap. Again these are presets that pick values from a given set given what the camera sees. These modes are supposed to be user-friendly but if you know what settings to use its much simpler to just use those and be done with it. Now you're thinking like a photographer with a dslr ergo know how to get the best shot with the device you have for a given subject's lighting.
The one thing that is still not possible is freezing motion in low light. That requires a sensor with low noise at higher ISO. But you can freeze motion to some extent if the subject is not more than 5 feet away with flash but that's about it.

One Twelve said:
Side street
LG (Shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto) Since this one is more clear, i assume it was taken at a faster shutter speed.
Z1 (1/8s, ISO 400, 20MP, Auto).
Reference (2 sec, ISO 160, 15.9MP, Auto)
Obvious camera shake if you see the moneygram sign on the left. camera shake affects picture quality.
1020 (1/8, ISO 800, 38.2MP, Auto) This one is clear.
Bench
LG (shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/8, ISO 400, 13, Auto)
Clear example where manual EV compensation would have brought out more details in both cameras and they could have used a lower ISO. So you can see how Auto can get it wrong some times. And scores averaged off auto will be equally flawed.
1020 (0.3s, ISO 4000,38.2MP, 17.2MB)
Reference (0.3s, ISO 1250, 15.9MP, 5.5MB, Low contrast, Manual WB)
It's curious why the LG dropped shutter & ISO info twice out of 4 pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think i found the reason why the G2 dropped the shutter & ISO info from the exif of those two pics, it switched automatically into night mode. S4 has a setting for this, switch to night mode if light detected is too low. Maybe the one in the reviewers G2 did so as well.
G2 does not mention scene type in the exif which is sloppy. But the S4 does, night mode basically means a kind of HDR, it takes a number of images and then combines them. Result is ISO & shutter speed are missing in the exif. At least samsung indicates that the S4 went into night mode. You have to wait while these images are combined before taking the next shot, so there is some delay here. Brian Klug goes into this in his anandtech review on the S4's camera.
Check out the exifs of these two pics from the G2..
Low light
Night mode
1/8 seems to be the slowest speed the G2 can go to. After that its exposure compensation image combo magic. Same applies for S3, S4, Note 3 & Note 2 as well.
!/8 + 1/8 + 1/8... is still 1/8 with less blur given the faster shutter time but you still have to hold the camera still for the duration and end up with a 1/8 exposure compensated shot.
---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------
ashouhdy said:
its the night scene that puts the shutter to 1/8 ... Also i doubt the LG can get close to the low light performance of the Z1 Due to Sensor Size 1/2.3" vs 1/3"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No chance for G2 to beat Z1 in low light.
Z1 sensor is 33% bigger.
Z1 aperture is 50% bigger
Z1 shutter speed is 6x slower (if its confirmed 1/8 is slowest speed for G2)
Plus you can exposure compensate 2+ on Z1

Moto X Camera : Magic found to get best picture quality!!!

Hello friends. As everyone aware, Motorola cameras are usually infamous for delivering poor pictures whereas I have been using Motorola phones since long time and somehow found them better than the competitors in terms of delivering details in the pictures. Motorola usually applies very minor software filtering into the images which results into grainy pictures but at the same time, those pictures retain as much as possible details. Reason behind grain/noise is the tinny sensor.
Have been experimenting a lot on my Moto X camera since I bought it. Today I tested something different and that was lowering the resolution at the time of shooting. And the results were surprisingly positive.
The magic is, just download any other camera app which allows shooting in lower resolution like 8MP or 5MP. The software filtering algorithm applied by the camera software is not suitable for the 13MP pictures. Whereas it does magic on the 8MP or 5MP pictures. The pictures captured at 13MP come up with lot of artifacts and noise around edges of the objects. But if pictures are taken in lower resolution then they come out very nicely, the ugly artifacts are just gone and noise is also reduced.
Now those who are thinking that we will be loosing out data or details if we shoot in lower resolution then let me assure that it won't matter, atleast not in 99.99% cases. You won't be loosing any significant detail from the picture, rather the lower resolution will make pictures more desirable to store or print, they will be more cleaner and smaller in size to store.
If pictures would have been taken in some DSLR or any other camera having decent size sensor then capturing lower resolution images would have definitely caused in loss of details but it won't matter in the mobile camera, atleast not in the current generation mobile cameras.
I found 5MP more cleaner but 8MP is best compromise if anyone is doubtful about loosing out details over 13MP.
13MP = 3120 X 4160 pixles = 15.6 X 20.8 inches @ 200dpi print size
8MP = 2448 X 3264 pixels = 12.24 X 16.32 inches @ 200dpi print size
5 MP = 1944 X 2592 pixels = 9.72 X 12.96 inches @ 200dpi print size
So even if you capture 5MP picture, there is still more than enough data for a print around A4 paper size.
Now important notes:
1. Capturing images at 13MP and downsizing them into 8MP or 5MP in the image editor will not fix the issue because the internal software algorithm is applied at the time shooting and that is not suitable for the 13MP resolution, even if we use any 3rd party app. So capturing images in 13MP mode and downsizing them into 8MP/5Mp is not same as shooting in 8MP/5MP modes in case of Moto X. Results are different.
2. Stock camera app doesn't support low resolution captures. No, that 9.7 widescreen mode is not low resolution, that just crops the edges. You will have to download any other app for low resolution captures. Just set the 8MP or 5MP resolution in the camera app and shoot pictures, but it should 4:3 format, if you are interested in 16:9 ratio format then you will have to set the resolution accordingly which will be more lower.
To name a few good apps : Best is : Modified Motorola stock camera app which is usually named as Camera+, can be found on XDA. You can also control the noise filtering in the app if want more details at the cost of additional colorful grain. Others are - Google Camera, Open camera, A Better Camera (Night mode of this app is really wonderful, use it for low light shooting) etc.
These are 100% crops from a daylight capture. EXIF : 1/40Sec, ISO-50
Download them and zoom out and try to notice details and the ugly artifacts:
13MP
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
8MP
5MP
---------------------------------
These are crops from the same shot but upsized to 400% to magnify the pixel level details. Ugly artifacts ruining the image details can be noticed in the 13MP captures:
13MP
8MP
5 MP
-----------------------------------
These are crops form the same image but upsized to +400% to magnify the pixel level details:
13MP
8MP
5MP
----------------------------
These are low light shots of an advertisement in a magazine. Source of light was one CFL and window covered with blinds. Exif details : 1/33 sec, ISO-320.
100% crops:
13MP
8MP
5MP
------------------------------------
These are crops form the same image but upsized to +400% to magnify the pixel level details:
13MP
8MP
5MP
-------------------------------
Here is another shot. EXIF : 1/33 sec, ISO-500
100% crop.
13MP
8MP
5MP
Now you must understand why Apple is still giving only 8MP camera? Because anything over that is just plain marketing gimmick, nothing more than that and needlessly occupies extra space in the storage. Mobile phone camera sensors are very tinny in size thus they are not worth to push to capture anything over 5-8MP yet. I have seen pictures taken from the likes of Galaxy S5, S6 and Sony flagships and they were nowhere near to any true high resolution image. Their software are much more aggressive which clean up the noise and bump up the sharpness at edges more aggressively but at the same they end up eating lot of details and leave the water-painting kind of ugly effects all over the images. Thankfully such aggressive filtering is not applied by Motorola, atleast not in the daylight shots.
Would have loved if Motorola had provided Camera 2 API support, that would have given more RAW data. If no than atleast different resolution modes should have been supported in the stock camera app. Let's ask Motorola to do that, let's shoot emails to them
Request to moderators - please don't merge this thread with other existing camera threads.
If anyone else have more tips to improve picture quality then please share here.
Hope this thread helps :good:
***************************************************
***************************************************
UPDATE
Adding more samples:
Blind test:
100% crop
400% magnified of the crop
More details about the above crops:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61549911&postcount=42
More posts with better samples and tests:
1. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61552083&postcount=43
2. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61553750&postcount=44
Answers: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61566883&postcount=52

Will try to implement these great tips. Have you tried to use Camera 360 Paid version too? I was actually able to tweak some shutter speed in it. Had i understood more about it, it would have really helped a lot. Its only problem is that the app keeps running in the background causing huge useless battery drain.
I love Stock Android on the Moto X 2014 ?

grubber24 said:
Will try to implement these great tips. Have you tried to use Camera 360 Paid version too? I was actually able to tweak some shutter speed in it. Had i understood more about it, it would have really helped a lot. Its only problem is that the app keeps running in the background causing huge useless battery drain.
I love Stock Android on the Moto X 2014
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually there is some sort of internal software filtering which is applied at the time of shot capturing which you cant bypass unless the phone has got unlocked RAW shooting capabilities which Moto X hasn't got yet. So the damage is already done at the time of capturing itself which can't be reversed. The effective solution is to shoot in 8MP/5MP mode. If you have better camera app then it will be able to do more betterment since we are minimizing the internal damages caused by the flawed internal filtering in the firmware.
Please see the samples attached by me at 100%, you will get what I mean.

Ehhh the samples don't look very good. Best advice is to take pics at highest resolution and use imagenomic noiseware.

seabass950 said:
Ehhh the samples don't look very good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously, I did not capture the shots to submit into some photo contest, I was emphasizing on something different which I have explained in detail in the opening post. Whatever I have posted are cropped portions of the full resolution images
Best advice is to take pics at highest resolution and use imagenomic noiseware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noise removal tools will do magics if you apply them on 8MP/5MP shots instead of the 13MP. The max possible resolution is actually spoiling the pictures in the case of MotoX. It adds hell lot of artifacts in the 13MP pictures, thats what I meant by this post. To make things more clear, its not like typical downsizing to reduce the noise. Infact downsizing the 13MP shots into 8MP or 5MP won't reduce the artifacts, those will remain there but capturing the images directly into the 8MP/5MP modes yielding much different and better results.
Please test yourself if you don't believe me.
EDIT:
All of the images I posted were unedited except resizing and cropping.
Here is one comparo which shows the terrible artifacts ruining the pictures and they exist only in the 13MP shots:
400% upsized version:

See this image shot from the stock moto camera at 13mp with manual focus and manual exposure. Just added my signature in it! I think the camera app did pretty awesome in just a flash and macro mode even in low light! Surprisingly!

Here are crops from the few test shots I captured in 8MP mode today, no other editing except cropping.
Pictures are coming out much more clearer, no ugly artifacts, no need for any post processing to clean out the noise now.
Post processing has become a breeze now, earlier artifact were coming in the way of post processing if I wanted to add some effects or wanted to add more sharpness in the pictures.

Tl/Dr: use Google Camera at 5 or 8 mp, pictures automatically become better?

chrisrozon said:
Tl/Dr: use Google Camera at 5 or 8 mp, pictures automatically become better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Try yourself to belive it.
Shoot few different light condition shots at 13MP, 8MP and 5MP then see yourself the difference by zooming into the pictures, probably on computer monitor. You will find ugly artifacts only in the 13MP mode which won't be in the other two modes.

So true about megapixels not mattering much.
Here is a "famous" article from 2008 when the megapixel wars started in earnest. It was wriiten about DSLR's but applies here as well.
Interesting read if you like this kind of stuff:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm

I'm using HTC Camera for a while now and after this thread I realize that the highest resolution from the app is 9.7MP.
With the best autofocus I've ever seen, this camera is the best.

I just did some limited testing of 13mp vs 5mp. Low light shooting a group of objects, some with text on them. 5mp definitely better. Object borders less blurred. Text easier to read in 5mp. I used the debug settings in the stock camera. Made accessible w/ the xposed module known as "moto checkbox"

Julianocas said:
I'm using HTC Camera for a while now and after this thread I realize that the highest resolution from the app is 9.7MP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is widescreen mode which is there in the stock camera app as well. Read the point number "2" in my opening post for detailed explanation. You will have to shoot in median (3840X2160 mode to get 8MP equivalent quality.
CUBENSIS said:
I just did some limited testing of 13mp vs 5mp. Low light shooting a group of objects, some with text on them. 5mp definitely better. Object borders less blurred. Text easier to read in 5mp. I used the debug settings in the stock camera. Made accessible w/ the xposed module known as "moto checkbox"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If using xposed then you must also see few options for noise filtering? If so then see if there is chcekbox for QC denoise or similar, if it is then turn it off. Now you can get more details in the 13MP but pictures will be grainy/noisy, especially in lowlight situations.
So if one wants decent quality pictures straight out of the camera then better to shoot in 5MP or 8MP resolutions.

Great work indeed jacky !!! You seem tonknow your images well and how to capture em .. way to go mate .
All the best
Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

any way to fix the focus issue of the camera? i believe i'm not the only one facing issues while attempting to take macro shots not that it really matters much to me.. hardly use the camera but yeah. this phone would've been a lot more popular if the camera was on par with the rest!

bellick said:
any way to fix the focus issue of the camera? i believe i'm not the only one facing issues while attempting to take macro shots not that it really matters much to me.. hardly use the camera but yeah. this phone would've been a lot more popular if the camera was on par with the rest!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe me, this is one of the best cellphone camera I've come across. so far.
Have a look at these macro shots I posted earlier after following the majors I posted in the opening post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61501824&postcount=7
About the focusing issue, have you tried enabling manual focus and turning off Auto HDR off? Also try out some other apps, please go thorough my opening post for hints on apps and other tips.
Only hardware problem this phone has got is that the lens is little bit misaligned at one corner so around 15-20% portion in that area always comes out blurred. Though most of other cellphone cameras also don't have perfect lenses all around the corners.

Thanks a lot for all the great analysis done! The study done by you should be forwarded to motorola for analysis and improvement! Now i am really getting great macro shots from the camera which i can boast about. Just one question, have u tried to revert back to earlier camera versions and done this analysis?
I love Stock Android on the Moto X 2014 ?

grubber24 said:
Thanks a lot for all the great analysis done! The study done by you should be forwarded to motorola for analysis and improvement!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I had spent whole day yesterday on the analysis and thread post, rather have been experimenting a lot since I bought the phone and almost tried all the good camera apps available in the market. Reason was it was getting hard to digest for me that my previous 8MP Motorola phone was delivering better results than the 13MP of MotoX which is from the 3 years old generation compared to the MotoX which has got one of the best sensor.
grubber24 said:
have u tried to revert back to earlier camera versions and done this analysis?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have lot of pictures captured from different stock camera app versions in different Android firmwares since Kitkat to 5.1 and all of those were captured in 13MP mode and all of them have ugly artifacts. I always thought to resize all of my MotoX captures into half but that downsizing also didn't help.
Only wish that the idea of capturing the photos in the low resolution would have come earlier in my mind, I would have had all of my previous captures in this new found better quality.
Now I am not using the stock app since it doesn't allow changing the resolution. Only wish we could set other app of our liking as default which can be launched using voice command and twist wrist gesture.

Jack Sparrow xda said:
Yeah, I had spent whole day yesterday on the analysis and thread post, rather have been experimenting a lot since I bought the phone and almost tried all the good camera apps available in the market. Reason was it was getting hard to digest for me that my previous 8MP Motorola phone was delivering better results than the 13MP of MotoX which is from the 3 years old generation compared to the MotoX which has got one of the best sensor.
I have lot of pictures captured from different stock camera app versions in different Android firmwares since Kitkat to 5.1 and all of those pictures have ugly artifacts. I always thought to resize all of my MotoX captures into half but that downsizing also didn't help. Only wish that the idea of capturing the photos in the low resolution would have come earlier in my mind, I would have had all of my previous captures in this new found better quality.
Now I am not using the stock app since it doesn't allow changing in resolution. Only wish we could set other app of our liking as default which can be launched using voice command and twist wrist gesture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I loaded the xposed moto checkbox module and with the dev options for camera turned on you can change picture size to:
4160x2340
3840x2160
3264x1836
2592x1458
1920x1080
1280x720
Would this not work for the methods your recommending? Or am I missing something?

adm1jtg said:
I loaded the xposed moto checkbox module and with the dev options for camera turned on you can change picture size to:
4160x2340
3840x2160
3264x1836
2592x1458
1920x1080
1280x720
Would this not work for the methods your recommending? Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will definitely work, just make sure that you are capturing in 5MP/4:3 ratio or 8MP/4:3 ratio, not the 9.7MP/16:9 ratio mode. Please see my post number 13.
grubber24 said:
Thanks a lot for all the great analysis done! The study done by you should be forwarded to motorola for analysis and improvement!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If we can reach to Motorola then I have more ideas to share with them, but that looks highly unlikely. They look least interested in the camera, look at the terrible picture quality 20MP camera of Moto Droid Turbo produces. And hopes are more down after knowing that the company is now owned by new Chinese parent Lenovo.

Comparative study of the Xperia Z5's (moderate) low-light performance ;)

Background
While the Z5 has demonstrated that it can take good daytime photos and excellent video (thanks to its closed-loop actuator), low-light performance has been a concern, due to a lack of OIS and its smaller pixels.
I had the opportunity to borrow an LG G4 to test low-light conditions with the Z5. Testing took a while, as I needed to understand the different scene selections of the Z5's Superior Auto mode. I chose two classic, well-known, posters for the basis of the analysis: Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back and Breakfast at Tiffany's. The posters feature both artwork and text, which should provide a good mix of characteristics for comparison. Also, the posters can easily be found online, so no reference photos were necessary.
Test conditions
The SW:ESB poster was lit from a single, overhead, incandecent light bulb (60 watt), which was roughly 10 ft/3 m away. The Breakfast at Tiffany's poster had no nearby light source - the light comes from the next room over 20+ ft/ 7+ m away.
All photos were taken in automatic mode for both phones. The Z5 was set to 8 MP in 16:9 ratio. I had tried set up the photos to look as similar as possible.
Camera setup
The SW:ESB night pics were taken while sitting down. The Z5 photos are as follows:
a) Night mode icon (i.e. moon icon)
b) Night mode icon + tripod icon
c) Night mode icon + tripod icon, phone holder stabilized (not hand-held)
The Breakfast at Tiffany's pics were taken while standing up, with arms in an elevated position. This is was due to the fact that the poster was mounted higher on the wall. It should represent the Z5's worse case scenario, as there was no way to stay completely steady due to the awkward posture and poor lighting.
Note: I had to re-take the Breakfast at Tiffany's photo, as I discovered that the initial photo had moved the focus to the top of the poster, due to face detection. I manually adjusted the focus rather than cut off Audrey's elegant face. When face detection icon was not on screen, the low-light icon (i.e. candle icon) would come on.
Link to photos (7-zipped):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Put-ePeAktZXE4YkxpNmhmWUk
The photos have not been edited in any way, other than to rename the files. I will leave the photos up for a couple of weeks. If you are reading this post after November 2015, and would like a link to the pics, please send me a PM.
Conclusion
OIS definitely helped with the low-light pics. The difference in detail was due to blurring, not MPs as far I could tell. In better lighting conditions or when stabilized, the Z5 and G4 had the same level of detail. The G4 pics became more and more "washed out" as the light level dropped, which was probably due to its smaller sensor.
Kids vs. stills: For quick snaps of people in moderate-to-low lighting, the Z5 was better, due to face detection. OIS couldn't do much to help. G4 had a lot more blurred photos, but when it wasn't blurred, the quality was good.
So why choose the Z5 (without OIS)? For the video recording. Once you've tried taking FHD videos with the Z5, you'll probably never go back to using OIS. Try it in the store... take a walk, jump up and down, shake it all around. It's pretty dang amazing.
Anyway, I hope the pics and the comparison were helpful.
Cheers!

Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?

schecter7 said:
Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?
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Gah... I don't have the G4 to test with anymore. I didn't say it was "dinner by candle light". But I'll change the title a bit.

Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'

schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
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Click to collapse
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?

schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/

bloodfire1004 said:
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?
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Click to collapse
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
joe_dude said:
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/
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Click to collapse
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.

schecter7 said:
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.
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Click to collapse
I see. Thanks!

Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.

TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
Click to expand...
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Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.

bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.

bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.

EQ2000 said:
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me Sir. Do you actually know what are you speaking? You always blame S6 got strong noise reduction but when you found noises there you also said that S6 is too bad to has noise.
Sony is all good in your mind even there are indeed more flat area in photo but you'll just think that some noises to simulate fine grain so it's all good.....
To be honest, I've also played a lots of video stuffs, I was a video lover. The film grain isn't real using in this way. In the old days video encoding technologies were not yet mature, the encoder did remove too much things from the source and people was trying to apply some noises in flat area to fraud human eye but this method should not use again in recent year. Some others were trying to simulate old Film noises for special purpose though.
The environment is total stable and it won't change the result after 15 - 20mins like day time so it is meaningless to mention about this, I'm not only focusing to take photo because my friends whatsapp me. Furthermore, the Z5c is freaking hard to get good result in such low light condition, some scenes were actually been taken 4 to 5 times to try to get one with good result. S6 was almost all done in one shot.

TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While an instructive and very interesting comparison, we do loose a bit of something by dealing with differing Fields of View. Some of the loss of detailing that you might otherwise put down to the sensor or software is actually far more about the focus of the lens on the sensor. To see what the detail reproduction is more accurately, we could do with seeing the two framed identically (IE, taking half a step nearer with the Z5 when taking the shot to correct for the different lens).
While I hate to put you to more trouble, could you have a go at this at all? Thanks

TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
<Text removed>
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, Hong Kong... been there several times. Sorry, but I hate to say it, the video quality on the S6 was not very good. Maybe when standing still it's good, but as soon as you started panning, the video was jittery. In FHD, the Z5 was completely smooth. In 4K, both videos were jittery.
If you're going to critical of the Z5, you should be at least as critical about the S6's poor video performance. You live in HK... a fast paced city. Hold it up and walk around with the crowd, take it on the bus, go up and down the subways stairs. Don't use the Z5 and take video like it's an S6 - judge it on its own merit. If you've ever tried to keep up with a child and record video, you'd know what I mean!
Thanks for the vids and photos... I'll check out the photos later.

TheEndHK said:
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.
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Click to collapse
Okay, I've gone through the pics, comparing both sets of pics side-by-side. First thing I noted was that a few of the Z5 pics were actually less blurry than the S6. LOL! I think I could have done better with the G4.
At 100% size, the Z5 and S6 had nearly the same level of detail across the pics, except for a few pics where either the S6 or Z5 was clearly blurred. The Z5 had smaller text because of the FOV, but it wasn't any harder to read.
I thought the S6 would be the clear winner with OIS, but the pics look very close in quality. Z5 should have slightly better colours, but I can't tell without neutral reference pics. I think you should have spent more time stabilizing the S6. From your pics and video, I'd choose the Z5, since the only thing that's clearly better from the two sets was the Z5's FHD video. xD

Now that I've had the Z5 for a couple of weeks, here are my thoughts:
Here on XDA, we tend to get overly technical (no, really?), so I've been thinking about how a "normal" person would decide to get and use the Z5. I bought the Z5 based on early impressions of its video performance and technical details of the new camera system (dat closed-loop actuator). After taking some family vids running around the house, I'd say it works as advertised.
But it was my SO's reaction (a non-geek) that was more telling. She was curious how the videos would turn out, as I barely paid attention to the phone while it was taking videos. She was impressed and commented that it was so smooth that it looked "professional". As any family man knows, having the "other half" onboard with a tech purchase means life is good! Heh!
The photo quality? Frankly, she didn't notice much difference between the Z5, G4 or even my old Z Ultra. The G4's OIS didn't help much for impromptu pics of people. I had plenty of blurred indoor shots of moving faces with each phone. The Z5 did try harder with face detection and scene selection to get good pics, while the G4 was basically a straight dummy point-and-shoot. The G4's strength is in its manual mode, and in quick snap situations, there was no time to play with the settings. Ironically, I caught some of the best moments - not talking about colour or details - from the Z Ultra, as it was the camera I was most familiar with. LOL!
The Z5 is now my go-to camera for videos. I think anyone who wants to take good family or vacation videos (or even vloggers), the Z5 is probably the best choice for a phone. Personally, I'd still take a real camera on vacations for better pics and optical zoom. Gawd, nothing is more annoying than taking a pic of something and have it show up the size of a pinhead because I couldn't zoom in.

Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/

schecter7 said:
Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/
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Good shots and a good example piece that demonstrates that you can get very good night shots from the Z5. I especially like the carriage.
As is my way, I've been looking through Flickr at S6 shots that random people have posted and have come across images like https://flic.kr/p/A14UVf and https://flic.kr/p/ytEfJq - both of which are noisier than a great many night shots and indoors night shots I've taken with my Z5. These are not isolated examples.
Not very scientific, I know, but it's evidence that getting good results is as much about the person behind the camera as it is about the camera itself. Those S6 shots aren't really any better than anything that the Z5 could produce: detail is relatively similar (though a little better with the S6, probably) and noise is higher. Compare that bar shot with one of mine in MUCH worse lighting (so much darker than the image produced): https://flic.kr/p/AHaxNj . Sure, the detail is smudgy but it is there and there is far less noise, to boot. Not saying that my image is perfect - anything but - but seeing the S6 bar shot above (Full of very ugly noise in an environment with many more light sources) makes me wonder just how much better the S6 would've handled that scene, if at all.

Some of my initial comparative shots.
Just my first day with Z5, and the shots are in difficult conditions sometimes, on purpose.
The Zoom is ok considering it was bad lighting.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsknZUGYc

So the S7 camera performs better than the Z5/Z5P ? I can't stop laughing...

Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?

It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk

Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.

Well money talks. S7 just cant match Z1+ line. Take a look at original S7 full resolution photos. Photo IQ is awfull on the S7. Over-sharpening that creates awfull halos and contrast, to much texture detail, texture extraction that gives a gritty look and to much noise reduction that makes for a blurry image with lost detail and plastic look. S7 has borderline the bad CRT chromatic aberration look and reminds me of old cheap digital cameras.
I'll quote one of my other posts wher one can see that even in an unfair comparision that favors the S7 my Z1 just performs much better. Much better and if making things more even by choosing 2048x1536 for my Z1 photos and same or similar for S7 my Z1 just walks all over the S7. Z5 does no worse unless in SA or the NR goes wonky.
When I look at S7 photos in good and low light it just reminds me of the bad CRT "chromatic aberration" look. Great artistic value but the persons S7 destroys IQ beyond reparation. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/
I mean even the Z1 blows it out and Z5 even more. Look at this comparision which favors the S7 as the images are shown at 100% size which means my Z1 is showing a far bigger image aswell as in worse lighting conditions with far less photons in the ambient to capture (see shutter speed difference) yet it performs better. Would I scale it down to same size as the S7 it would be a brutal comparision leaving the S7 in the dust. One can choose 2048 pixel width to see this in the links.
Stock original photos, default camera apps.
S7 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25743187832/sizes/o/
Z1 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25516883060/sizes/o/
S7 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
Z1 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25019022984/sizes/o/
Might take some time some day with the Z5c and capture photos in same locations once the sun is about same (wild weather over here).
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And here are more S7 samples.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25208922064/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25404249180/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25021532094/sizes/o/
And here is low light.
Will check files once released here and compare CRC to see if they changed algorithms. As for the S7 I agree, it does moderately good but far worse than Sonys Xperia Z1+ line. The biggest issue on the S7 besides tending to go overboard with sharpening and noise reduction which smoothes out to much and gives a bad fake plastic look (often easily visible around fine-grain detail like branches and leaves) is that it also when post-processing brightens up the image by tweaking curves. Most software does this but should be catiously used to extract detail from low contrast areas. Samsung goes overboard often giving it the 'fake ISO' look where black turns grey. Xperia Z1+ phones give quite a bit better low light photos same ISO for ISO and shutter speed while not even having to resort to major curve tweaking just minor or barely any and it does it selectively in a often excellent way. I assume the BIONZ is really a power beast for such dedicated tasks but sensors in Sonys phones are just better even though older and they are coupled with great optics.
It's just now that Samsung is starting use similar tech that Sony already employed in their mobiles years ago. I think Iphone 6s also got a bit of it but it relies mostly on multi-frame photo composition to create higher ISO like the Nexus 6p HDR+ does. Xperia Z1+ also does this but only when doing ISO 6400 (atleast the Z1) else not. Problem is you need to keep scene static else you get ghosting and bluriness. Haven't checked it fully out for the Z5c though but it should do better.
I guess you could say the S6 gives more detail and less blur but it also has way to much curve tweaking as the S7 but just much worse for same low light situations. S6 just turns to a mess at ISO 1000+ and low light while S7 does better. Both S6 and S7 also automatically (atleast in auto mode) if stable does multi-frame capture in low light to create improved noise reduction. Why some S6/S7 photos at say ISO 1000 looks bad and others much cleaner. Scene has to be static though and mobile firm. Same concept you can find in ProCapture camera app and their noise reduction mode.
Photo example of the S7 post-processing and curves.
Without HDR enabled.
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With HDR enabled.
Sony avoids this in most cases and dont go overboard like that keeping blacks deep and rich aswell as colors punchy and representation of captured scene is far better.
And a Z1 sample from manual mode 8MP, 1/8 ISO 3200. Little and smart use of brightening via the changing curves despite high ISO of 3200 keeping the blacks quite well, global contrast and colors punchy despite heavy tungsten lighting!
Manual mode, 1/8 ISO 1600 of same scene two days apart around same time.
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Click to collapse

The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?

Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?[/QUOTE]
Let me answer :
Are you able to drive faster in a Bentley than in a Renault even if you are a bad driver ?
Yes !!!
Same with photos quality (not photo skills)
I agree that the human factor is there but can not excuse all Sony conservative attitude plus Sony do not want to let 3rd party improve their lack of dev.
But still happy with my Z5 result... It is a phone and we do not have to expect the same quality as a Reflex

NJ72 said:
The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.

Xeon said:
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.
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Click to collapse
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.

NJ72 said:
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.
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Click to collapse
Well to be honest, SONY only brags about their camera performance in their devices.... This time in September they mentioned nothing but the 4K screen and the IMX300. No major change to the device design, software is close to stock android and the IP68 has been there for ages.
http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-z5/
See ? They are so proud of their camera that this is the only marketing card in their hands for now. As for lack of expertise, I really doubt but I can nothing but believe that they thought they nailed it when in fact it's still horrible in low light conditions.

The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi

FYLin21 said:
The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi
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Click to collapse
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
One thing I noticed is that even Whatsapp camera looks awful. I understand that the pic is compressed and the post processing is non existent but on my Xperia Z the difference wasn't noticeable that much.

gm007 said:
Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.
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Click to collapse
Sorry but I tend to disagree. I dont think OEM release need google assistance. In fact SONY is very conservative when it comes to camera software. I bet they know how to unlock raw mode and compatibility yet they don't want to.
It's obvious that the post processing has been inconsistent across the Xperia line. A bit of trial and error if you want my opinion....
What you say about bad software is correct however unjustified. I can't accept it from an industry leader such as SONY.
OK the camera is almost perfect in manual mode if you want to go hardcore and adjust every possible value and mode for a snapshot but I don't want to spend 2 minutes for that :
Look at the difference between iPhone 6S and Z5 camera.... this lack of details is what makes me go nuts.

Xeon said:
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has been zoomed a bit using "clear image zoom" which just oversharpens things. It could be fine if they just use something that rounds off the edges for up sampling, but you see a lot of jagged circular blobs throughout the edges. I had taken a few pictures of this bird standing there but the camera kept overexposing the scene. Then I brought the exposure down and tried taking a photo - the bird a still standing there the moment I pressed the shutter.
The only thing to get around no burst mode is using 4K video. You can capture 8MP stills while you film but sometimes it causes the video to stutter and it takes a long time to save them. The stills also look worse than the video itself - the contrast is lower with washed out colours. It's better to grab frames after filming but you'l need another app to do this and I'm not sure which one as I do it on my computer using Media Player Classic. You can also crop to 1080p which is better than using the digital zoom in the app - unfortunately the bitrate of 4K video is a bit low so you can see some artifacts when cropped to 1080p ...
Is the shutter lag due to software or hardware? it's hard to say. Low resolution photos from Facebook messenger can be taken instantaneously, but all the third party apps I've tried exhibit shutter lag - I think even worse than the stock camera app... and don't forget only 8MP works with third party apps.
If the images were downscaled to 8MP or something, they would be good compared to some other cameras but that defeats the purpose of having 20/23MP.
Imagine seeing the loch ness monster and you took a photo but the shutter lag means your photo doesn't show it because it dove into the water

I will give you a small example why sony is bad software wise,
In lollipop we had fingerprint scanner test in the diagnostic menu and the test was not working.
So instead to fix it in marshmallow they removed the test completely lol.

Xeon said:
Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?
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Click to collapse
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.

danw_oz said:
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ironically their sales and marketing strategy is flawed to death and it's chaotic but they wanna do marketing they do it the wrong way.
Seriously they should start recruiting...

hawker_gb said:
It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
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post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say

Barthlon said:
post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say
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Click to collapse
They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.

EQ2000 said:
They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
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Click to collapse

Xeon said:
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
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Click to collapse
Kinda hard to make out what you are reffering to but "disaster"? Z5 series applies to aggressive area based NR in low contrast areas, as for the rest the photo is quite good and natural looking. Certainly better than most S7 photos you can find of similar ISO, shutter speed and scenery type. Atleast the NR can be countered partially with texture detail and clarity filters to bring out contrast in smudged areas. S7 you cant do nothing to repair photos as they are beyond reparation.
Click on images to view them in Flickr default display size. Atrocious and beyond reparation. The Z5 IQ despite smudgy NR in low contrast areas is head and shoulders above the S7 IQ. Z5 looks to the DSLR side while S7 looks to the cheap old digital camera side.
S7. Atrocious, the borderline bad CRT chromatic aberration look. Like relief filter applied shifting pixels due to horrible post-processing and subpar sensor.
Z5. The area based NR problem is clearly visible yet it looks much more natural and better despite being taken in much worse lighting conditions as evident by shutter speed and postition of sun and shadows.
As for the highlights you made that is pretty much what I already noted though the left side is from lens problem, that unit has decentered lenses thus blurred sides, right and/or left. You can see that in S7 to depeding on unit. Such a unit should be replaced. And all cameras have to do some detail extraction in low contrast areas (shadowed/non directly lit areas) and thus wont be as detailed as lit areas.
Take a look at S7 photo with shadowed areas, see? Noisy, smudgy with blotches and horrible even though ISO is low. Atleast the Z5 smoothes it out mostly OK. (left and right side)
One more time! You see? (right side trees and bushes)
You still cant see it!? Well some more then!
To the right!
To the left!
To the left!
And all around! :laugh: