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Hi all
I have brought a sunny cube v7 (cheap tablet) and upon receiving this morning I went ahead and left it to charge for a few hours. When I came back it was fully charged so unplugged it imediatly powered off. I cracked it open and the battery it self is reading about 4v but after the protection circuit its reading about 2, the tablet itself is saying its fully charged but it won't turn on without charger . tried looking everywhere but all I could read was about not charging or a defunct battery. Any help is appreciated
Just give it back if it's under warranty?
Sent from my ST26i using xda premium
Thats the problem it wa from china so by the time i pay for shipping back there i might as well buy another one, it was only £40
Well, you seem to know about the protection circuit.
They can vary in coverage from over-discharge, over-charge and over-current.
Some of them will actually latch up once activated.
If you battery is reading 4 V there is no reason for the protection to be activated.
You can try bypassing the protection circuit.
That's living a bit dangerously, both as to your health and the health of the battery.
Still, as a proof of principle you could do it carefully.
You can buy a similar battery protection module on eBay for a couple of bucks.
Renate NST said:
Well, you seem to know about the protection circuit.
They can vary in coverage from over-discharge, over-charge and over-current.
Some of them will actually latch up once activated.
If you battery is reading 4 V there is no reason for the protection to be activated.
You can try bypassing the protection circuit.
That's living a bit dangerously, both as to your health and the health of the battery.
Still, as a proof of principle you could do it carefully.
You can buy a similar battery protection module on eBay for a couple of bucks.
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Thanks for the info, I work as an electrical engineer repairing phones for insurance companies so i sort of know what im on about but never had this problem before and nobody at my work has faced it so thats a dead end. all I know about it is what ive read, I havent come across any information about this problem online. Do you know if i can just buy a similar protection circuit, or can I buy a bigger size battery (both in size and capacity) and will it still charge fully? thanks for the help!
Edit:
will my tablet tell me how charged the battery is if I remove the protection circuit?
2nd Edit, what controls the voltage to the battery, the circuit on the mother board or the protection circuit, as i understand it the protectionis only there in case the mobo gets a short, in other words the mobo says "im not taking any more voltage from you battery" then proceeds to shut down, is this the case? also with charging is it the mobo that starts the trickle charge +90% batt or isit the protection circuit, any help is greatly appreciated just want to get this sorted
The protection circuit is completely invisible and inactive except in cases of failure.
Charging circuits on the main board control conditioning, charging, terminating.
Determining percentage battery charge is a bit of voodoo based on voltage, temperature and estimated current load.
I don't know if any device (some? all?) are using Hall effect current sensors to measure instead of estimating.
I would think that a slightly bigger battery would not be a problem.
A smaller battery would not like getting charged too fast.
Replacing both the battery and the protective circuit shouldn't really be a problem. Are you measuring the voltage on the battery before/after the protective circuit - under load though? A battery without a load will always show a higher voltage than when "put to work". The protecive circuit itself does put a microscopic load on the battery, but I'm not sure if its enough for a decent load voltage read. if you have an old computer fan (probably won't go around if sub-5 volts, but should tolerate load long enough for a read) or something else that will "just work" off a 3.7v supply, I'd suggest you try that before shopping for parts.
Keep in mind, if buying a new protective circuit - it should be rated to comply with your tablet. Overcharge and overdischarge voltages are fairly similar across the board - but you'll want to look at Overcharge and overdischarge currents. Make sure these do not crash with the normal operational currents of the tablet. If the tablet for example, consume up to 2 amps under heavy load - you cannot use a protective circuit with an overdischarge current rating of less than 2 amps. If you did, it would trigger the protective circuit under normal (heavy) use. Same for overcharge current - make sure it is rated with a reasonable margin above what the stock charger delivers - otherwise the stock charger will pop the circuit.
I'd also advice getting one that is designed for the number of cells the current (or new) battery "pack" will be composed of. It will make putting it together much more simple and tidy.
Dear L2 G2 owners,
I really love my battery on my LG G2 and since its not removable i want to do the best to preserve its lifespan.
So what i'm doing is, plugging in my phone to the charger when i get home and leave it there even after its been completely charged.
Is that correct or should i leave the battery to complete its cycle then charge it when its almost empty.
What other tips would you suggest.
Cheers!
Cienight said:
Dear L2 G2 owners,
I really love my battery on my LG G2 and since its not removable i want to do the best to preserve its lifespan.
So what i'm doing is, plugging in my phone to the charger when i get home and leave it there even after its been completely charged.
Is that correct or should i leave the battery to complete its cycle then charge it when its almost empty.
What other tips would you suggest.
Cheers!
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From what ive read thats exactly how youll reduce your batterys life span
Sent from my LG-D802 using xda app-developers app
The more cycles, the shorter the life span. The thing that will destroy the most is heat. These are good batteries, trickle won't do much, heat is the worst. Don't worry so much about it. Nothing you do is going to have much of a noticeable impact.
Thanks a lot for the info guys!
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
Btw, these batteries are indeed replaceable. Just not in a normal way, and more difficult than say a MAXX. The back cover does come off. Just a thin plastic back that can be removed going clockwise from SIM tray.
Steamer86 said:
Btw, these batteries are indeed replaceable. Just not in a normal way, and more difficult than say a MAXX. The back cover does come off. Just a thin plastic back that can be removed going clockwise from SIM tray.
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Clockwise while facing the screen or facing the back?
Sent from my LG-D802 using xda app-developers app
Screen to you. Easier to place back starting at bottom and working up to top a side at a time. Just my personal experience.
Any available online stores that provide such replacement batteries?
Also is there a video tutorial on how to open the back cover.
Just in case...
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
Lithium batteries
Cienight said:
Dear L2 G2 owners,
I really love my battery on my LG G2 and since its not removable i want to do the best to preserve its lifespan.
So what i'm doing is, plugging in my phone to the charger when i get home and leave it there even after its been completely charged.
Is that correct or should i leave the battery to complete its cycle then charge it when its almost empty.
What other tips would you suggest.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done a little research on batteries from such places as Battery University, and learned a few things that might be interesting. I haven't posted enough to post links, but the location after batteryuniversity dot com is "learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries" if anyone wants more information.
It seems that Li-Ion and Li-Polymer batteries are treated essentially the same; the difference is mainly in the packaging. As for charging, they do better if not charged 100%, and never discharged 100%. But one thing they say, which I was told by the salesman when I bought it (but didn't believe him at the time) is that they should not be charged while power is on. The charger is designed to trickle charge the battery, coming on at a certain voltage. But when under power, this cycle happens too often and stresses the battery too much. I suppose it might be OK to charge it while on if you watch it, and remove the cable when it gets to full charge or just under that. I suppose a timer would be ideal.
I just wish I knew how much difference it actually makes, since turning it off means you can't receive calls. I've had devices with Lithium batteries in the past that were left on a charger all night, and the batteries seemed to last for several years, which is probably longer than my phone really needs to last.
I still think its funny that people don't think that there isn't any charging logic in the phone and that it just willfully commits battery suicide if the user doesn't micromanage charging.
Back in the day, early battery tech such as NiCad was extremely sensitive to temperature and the chargers weren't designed with intelligence so they destroyed batteries with 'Fast' charging by overheating. Also, if you never let the battery discharge completely, the battery would start to form cadmium crystals and lower the apparent capacity of the battery. So, slow and deep cycles were the proper way to go. NiMH batteries were far superior and intelligent chargers were introduced but could still suffer the same symptoms of over heating with cheap chargers.
The idea that you can only trickle charge Lithium Ion/Polymer batteries is laughable. The rate of charge is controlled based on the temperature of the battery, if it heats up, the charging circuit clamps the current down, if it is cold it ramps it up. Also, contrary to wisdom applied to NiCad, deep discharges and full charges are harder on Lithium batteries than the earlier tech. In the mid ranges of charge the charger will go all out, when it reaches the top end it slows down to a trickle because the battery is more sensitive to stress at those charge levels. Conversely, if the battery is fully discharged, the charging circuit will start out with a trickle and speed up as the level increases.
On the G2, if there is high resistance across the data pins it stays in slow charge mode, most likely to protect USB ports not meant for charging, if there is low/no resistance it goes into fast charge mode, it thinks it must be connected a dedicated charger. If the charger or the cable gives the wrong setting to the phone the user is left scratching their head.
Luckily the AT&T car charger I bought with my Galaxy SIII works properly with my G2. Sadly the correct cable with my laptop, even with Lenovo's dedicated charging port, it stays in slow charge mode because it senses a data connection.
Edit: Also, the comment about not charging while the phone is on is another hold over from the NiCad days. Lithium technology could care less as all phones have regulated charging circuits now.
Using a Samsung quick charge wireless charger with the S8 Plus, I came to the rather obvious conclusion that using a Qi charger on a phone with a case, will generate considerable excess heat and tend to make the phone warm to hot to touch. The warming effect is greater the thicker the case.
So while many case manufacturers indicate their cases are wireless charging friendly- the real question is whether the increased heat resulting from charging with the case will reduce the life of the battery.
Of course the simple solution is to simply remove the case when wirelessly charging. But doing this nightly is inconvenient and may stretch the case over time- resulting in a less snug fit.
Given the above, the benefits of Qi charging appear minimal at best if phone battery longevity is a concern.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
The thing causes my S8 to heat up, even when I turn off the fast option, more so than fast wired charging. Is it really good for my battery health when the phone is heating up for the entire two or three hours on the charger?
with the official samsung one that has a fan?
The phone will stop charging automatically if it thinks the temperature is not comfortable.
Do not stress over things that are mentioned in the manual, inductive charging will generate more heat than a wire, but the phone is more than capable of managing the process and stopping if things get too hot.
And no, the temperature isn't going to get high enough to damage your battery. (Unless you are using unauthorized wireless chargers / fakes that can cause the actual metal casing to heat up, google this).
I too had this question back when I bought my Wireless Charger for my S7. Interesting to get more feedback from the others. E.g. Does it shorten the battery life quicker considering it heats up the battery more than on cable.
I've wireless charged my s7 since I got it and also wireless charge my s8. I've also added wireless charging to an LG G3 and G4. IMO it does not degrade the battery and fast. The way I look at it, it saves the charging port from 100's maybe 1000's of plugs/unplugs. It's also a point of device failure, so from that perspective, it's better. Again, IMHO.
notice it too.
How about if you introduce the extra variable of putting the thin metal thingies for magnetic car mounts between the phone and the case? Does that change the situation?
Another variable is a case, which can add to heat build-up. Overall, I have seen nothing definitive that suggests that heat won't adversely effect battery life. Notwithstanding the money companies make selling QI chargers.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Guitarboarder28 said:
with the official samsung one that has a fan?
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Well the fan is for the charger itself isnt it?
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
AB__CD said:
Well the fan is for the charger itself isnt it?
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
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I believe its to cool the phone
The fan in the authentic Samsung Desktop charger only activates if fast wireless charging is turned on in the phone.
The fan is to cool the phone.
I use the Samsung desktop stand but usually just normal charge it to which apart from typical heat being discharged I've not experienced any other issue.
I do not use a case.
There is opinion that constantly using Fast Charging can reduce the batteries condition over time. Wether you believe this is personal opinion. I've only Fast charged maybe 2-3 times if I've needed a quick boost of juice.
I noticed this too when I put my new S8+ on the wireless charger built into my truck. This was the first time I tried it so I wasn't sure if the phone getting hot was a normal thing or not
Dark5tar said:
I too had this question back when I bought my Wireless Charger for my S7. Interesting to get more feedback from the others. E.g. Does it shorten the battery life quicker considering it heats up the battery more than on cable.
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Hi, the phone can handle it if it gets too hot during wireless charging.
Always be assured since that the electric current of wireless charging is 1A, which is lower than the current for wired charging 1.6A. That's to say, it creates less heat while charging. So actually the wireless charging helps prolong the longevity of your lithium-ion battery, except for the longer charging time.
Besides, only semiconductors that flow through current could produce heat (such as your phone's cover), the lithium-ion battery doesn't have current go through, so it's safe from the heat.
I only wireless charge in my car. My dash mount is setup for during the warmer months I will have the the AC it vent blowing cool air directly on the back of the phone. If I don't do this, I get the wireless charging pause error caused by the heat sensors.
AB__CD said:
The thing causes my S8 to heat up, even when I turn off the fast option, more so than fast wired charging. Is it really good for my battery health when the phone is heating up for the entire two or three hours on the charger?
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Fear not, the phone battery doesn't generate heat itself, the smartphone is actually smart enough to protect itself from the heating generated by the wireless charging unless you put it under the extreme heating weather, so the phone should be safe from the heat.
Anyone been able to turn on this phone and run it without a battery with permanent power?
Short answer: not possible.
Longer answer: You would need a pretty hefty engineering brain to figure this out, as the circuitry of the daughter board detects and adjusts the mainboards voltages and such, based on the battery output. When battery output is 0, meaning dead/removed battery, the daughter board doesn't supply voltages to the mainboard.
Now, you could replace the battery with a supercapacitor, but you'd need to have a pretty big one to output the current of a fully charged battery of the 6P - something around the 10kf mark, which IIRC from my university days, is roughly the size of 2 D-cell batteries or so. You'd then need to wire this all in, and even if you made it neat and 3D printed a new back, you went from a slim phone to a small brick. You'd also still need to provide current to charge the super capacitor, which doesn't use normal voltages like the charger and daughterboard can output, so you'd need to add in a voltage regulator board, wire that to the daughterboard, let the DB send current to the mainboard, and since this all outputs a lot of heat, now you run into a serious heating / cooling problem. Add a fan, a larger super capacitor to power said fan, and well, you now have something that looks like a bomb lol.
To touch further on the heat problem - my dash camera has a 10kf SC in it that I wired in instead of the crappy NiCad battery it came with. It was hot enough to keep the snow melted through the windshield on its own with 12v 1a current - roughly 20% of the current the wall charger of the 6p provides. It didn't keep the whole windshield free, rather, a spot large enough to let the camera do its thing without issue.
Thanks Wiltron for your reply. Doesn't seem worth it for me to go through that much trouble to be honest, besides, having something in your car that looks like a bomb these days will get me more attention than I want. I do have to say that I'm able to power the phone with just the charger connected, but up to a certain point, when the cpu spikes while booting it runs short of power and shuts off. Same thing when I'm fully booted into android, I disconnect the battery and it will stay running up to the point where I start some app or even just turn the phone on its side and the phone just goes dark. I'm thinking that the daughterboard does provide power to the motherboard without a battery, but just not enough. Do you think a heftier charger might overload the circuitry of the phone?
cbgreen said:
Do you think a heftier charger might overload the circuitry of the phone?
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It can provide as much current as normal operations permit, however just make sure the cable and charger are official and supported, like Benson certified cables and a decent quality car charger like Anker.
Don't go crazy with the 50amp 120v brick chargers for cars, but don't grab the cheap ass gas station 0.5a 5v 4 for $10 special either
Tronsmart has good ones - I use one personally that has the certified USB C cable built into it.. minimal issues other than the thing does get hot