Database Users

[Q] If the eFuse is tripped, will there really be no way to reset it?

This is a real problem in terms of warrantys and OTAs. It is a complete pain, and I hope it isn't ever included again (or that they only enable it after you enable and download Knox)
As it is, I will still get a note 3, and as I always have my phone insured, it shouldnt be a problem if I brick it, as it is always quicker and easier to get it replaced via insurance anyway.

No. Efuse counter is hardwarebased. Imagine a littel Chip which explodes when counter gets from 0x0 to 0x1. So only option is to replace the chip.
Gesendet von meinem SM-N9005 mit Tapatalk

Well right now we have no definite proof that it is indeed an eFuse, only speculation.
Give the scene more time, they will figure it out.

I think its not an efuse

HitBobLer said:
This is a real problem in terms of warrantys and OTAs. It is a complete pain, and I hope it isn't ever included again (or that they only enable it after you enable and download Knox)
As it is, I will still get a note 3, and as I always have my phone insured, it shouldnt be a problem if I brick it, as it is always quicker and easier to get it replaced via insurance anyway.
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There may be a European law in that Samsung have to prove that what you did to trip knox really did 'break' the phone.
By law modifying your phone does not void warranty.

safereg said:
I think its not an efuse
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Samsung says it's an eFuse: https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
MystaMagoo said:
There may be a European law in that Samsung have to prove that what you did to trip knox really did 'break' the phone.
By law modifying your phone does not void warranty.
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EU Directive 1999/44/EC says that the software modification needs to cause the hardware failure to void your warranty, but it's vague about who carries the burden of proof.

rogier666 said:
Samsung says it's an eFuse: https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
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Yeah, we need proof.
Exynos can have it reset. Qualcomm no. Efuses are one time programmable. You can't "unblow" an efuse.

exploding?
Um, To the best of my knowledge, e_fuse are are field programmable hardware, not exploding chips. I also know that the warranty center than reset the flag on serviceable trade ins that people surrender. This for a fact from my days at t-mobile, talking to samsung on the phone. People actually send back working phones to recycle, and I had a customer who was worried about having a pre-tripped counter with a refurb. We called, and they told us that if a refurb comes in with 0x1, they can return it to 0x0. More likely than not, the reset path is on a circuit through a service port or sim slot. I've cross posted the bounty the 2600ers. Even if it were akin to a fuseable link, the odds of it being physically impossible to spoof or repair is unlikely.

Above may be true but so far its unfixable for users .
Many of the best development guys have dropped any further investigation .
The how the flag is reprogrammed is yet to be discovered and we are three years down the line with Knox .

Spoofing the knox warranty bit should be no problem if you can play with the code that sends the knox flag to the screen. Software can always misrepresent hardware status.
Repairing a blown efuse is something different.
Samsung says it's an eFuse and that replacing hardware is the only way to reset the knox flag. Why would Samsung repeatedly lie about that on its own site and risk lawsuits from its paying corporate customers if it turns out reversible after all?
Samsung wrote:
an e-fuse will be burned to indicate that a non-KNOX kernel image has been loaded to the device.
[...]
"It is a one-time programmable bit in e-fuse, which can only be turned from “0” to “1” (i.e. burned)."
[...]
There is no way to reverse the Warranty Bit without replacing the Printed Board Assembly (PBA), a hardware component, on the device.
[...]
The KNOX warranty bit is a onetime programmable fuse that signifies whether the device has ever been booted into an unapproved state. If the Trusted Boot process detects that nonapproved components are used, or if certain critical security features such as SELinux are disabled, it sets the fuse. Thereafter, the device can never run Samsung KNOX, device access to the DUHK and DRK in the TrustZone Secure World is revoked
[...]
If the Warranty Bit is fired, the device displays KNOX WARRANTY VOID: 0x01.
If that is the case, unfortunately there is no way to revert the Warranty Bit and KNOX won't work on this device.
The only way to get the device back to its original settings is to replace the PBA (Printed Board Assembly) on the device; hardware replacement will be required.
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Implications of tripping Knox?

Howdy all,
Potential new Sammy user (long time htc lover, but m9 is a bit samey from from m8), I'm vaguely aware of what knox is about, but not sure of the specific apps that are killed when you trip knox (which I will). Also, is the new samsung pay likely to be effected? If so, I assume regular nfc pay systems would still be ok?
Sorry if I made that confusing, just trying to work out if I'm losing anything I'm likely to use.
M.

tripping knox is nothing more than a counter that can be used for the carrier or manufacturer to know if the phone has been altered. ie if the phone breaks under warranty they can deny you coverage. from what i gather, samsung seems to be forgiving and normally doesn't deny warranty based on the counter, but i guess YMMV.
as for it killing apps, not that i am aware of.. not sure about samsung pay specifically as it's something new that will be released later this year. i don't see it as being a problem though. my google wallet still works and i don't see why samsung would disable their apps based on the counter. IMO they want people to use their apps so i doubt they would disable samsung pay because the counter was tripped. i mean there are plenty of users that received warranty on repairs/replacement even with a tripped counter.

Ah ok for some reason I thought some apps were linked to the knox functionality. If it's just warranty I'm all good, warranty law in australia is quite good as they would have to prove that your custom rom or whatever was actually cause (like printer ink, they can't automatically void printer warranty for using refills or generic ink - have to prove it was the cause of the fault).
M.

mattman83 said:
Ah ok for some reason I thought some apps were linked to the knox functionality. If it's just warranty I'm all good, warranty law in australia is quite good as they would have to prove that your custom rom or whatever was actually cause (like printer ink, they can't automatically void printer warranty for using refills or generic ink - have to prove it was the cause of the fault).
M.
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Well knox is. After you tripped the knox flag, you can't use knox anymore. I you had data in it then it's lost, and you can't make a new knox container. But other than this I don't think anything else depends on it.

Knox tripped = warranty repair denial

I've seen a few threads with people asking what the ramifications are of having knox tripped. I rooted my Note 4 as soon as I could and tried a few custom roms. I consistently had problems with bluetooth connectivity and gps tracking across stock, Cyanogen, and modified TW roms. I'd had enough and decided to send my phone to Samsung for repair citing these three issues:
1. Gps cannot determine my location accurately
2. Bluetooth audio skips/stops every few minutes on all devices
3. In one corner of screen there is a hairline crack but there doesn't appear to be any physical damage. It's hard to describe this but it wasn't from a drop. My best guess is pressure from accidentally sitting on it.
Unit was received and immediately sent back unrepaired due to Knox flag being tripped. I'm not really upset at that they wouldn't troubleshoot the gps and bluetooth. Those could be software and according to their terms i've modified that. I'm surprised they didn't email or call to offer a paid out of warranty service though.
Granted, I represent a sample size of 1 so keep that in mind.
* Unit was flashed to stock via Kies before being sent in for service.

Well, that's exactly what "Knox warranty void" flag is for... You can get it repaired through the store you bought it from if you are in EU though.

If you're in the European Union and your device falls faulty within the first 6 months, it is assumed it is a manufacturer's defect. Rooting your device does not void your warranty with the store because in order for the store to say "we cannot repair the device because it's been rooted" they have to have evidence that rooting the device was the direct cause of the malfunctions. If they refuse, threaten with Trading Standards and inform them that they're in breach of your statutory rights.

You should have a look at this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/general/samsung-knox-trigger-bothers-t3028728

Hello!
I need send my note 4 to warranty but I have KNOX WARRANTY VOID: 1
PLEASE, there are some way to clean this count for warranty reasons...??? (in note 2 was possible)
THANK YOU SO MUCH !

Carom3de said:
Hello!
I need send my note 4 to warranty but I have KNOX WARRANTY VOID: 1
PLEASE, there are some way to clean this count for warranty reasons...??? (in note 2 was possible)
THANK YOU SO MUCH !
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That's been patched and not possible that I've seen.

nine5raptor said:
That's been patched and not possible that I've seen.
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Thank you

speedyjay said:
If you're in the European Union and your device falls faulty within the first 6 months, it is assumed it is a manufacturer's defect. Rooting your device does not void your warranty with the store because in order for the store to say "we cannot repair the device because it's been rooted" they have to have evidence that rooting the device was the direct cause of the malfunctions. If they refuse, threaten with Trading Standards and inform them that they're in breach of your statutory rights.
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This. It's along the same lines of dealerships attempting to void warranties on modified cars when there are failures that are in no way due to the modifications. The main issue is all the runaround you may have to deal with to get the carrier or manufacturer to step up depending on whom you're dealing with.

Knox counter void warranty ?

Called Samsung today to see about having my phone repaired or replaced due to screen burn in. My phone is still under warranty but I wanted to know if have my knox counter at 1 will void my warranty. Sorry if this was asked already.

valve timing said:
Called Samsung today to see about having my phone repaired or replaced due to screen burn in. My phone is still under warranty but I wanted to know if have my knox counter at 1 will void my warranty. Sorry if this was asked already.
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Normally your warranty will be void because u trip ifuse Knox counter...

if the problem is hardware ( screen , home boutton ...) , even with a 0x1 Knox manufacturer will support your pb.

Alright thank you guys I'll go ahead and delete the thread.

valve timing said:
Alright thank you guys I'll go ahead and delete the thread.
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I live in the UK, so in theory I can give Samsung 'both barrels' of
1) UK consumer law
2) EU regulations
Both of which give the end purchaser extra protection.......
......BUT.....
Despite this, Samsung have told me in a series of emails, that a knox tripped device WILL IN EVERY CASE invalidate the warranty.....no matter what needs repairing.....even when I *specifically* mentioned the scenario where the hardware fault couldn't possibly have been caused by modifications to software, their reply remained the same.....no warranty repair.
It is a possibility that for a hardware repair, the service centre *might not* check the knox counter, in which case a repair would be undertaken, but if they do check it, you're outta luck......
http://i.imgur.com/rVnFwJM.jpg

Help me find Closure (with Knox)..

I've always TWRPed and rooted my phones in the past but I am struggling to live with the fact that if I do this with my S7E I'll be tripping KNOX (whatever the implications might be) and that action is irreversible. (I live in the UK btw)
I had a S6E and rooted using pingpong so all was good then (although missing Xposed was a bit of a bummer) but still had KNOX intact and my conscious clean.
I need help to overcome the fear of tripping KNOX; rooted and especially Xposed make life easier.
Thanks!

Okay simple:
UK here on EE
Knox = Never effected my warranty
Knox = Security Suit, Its for Businesses, So we can issue devices without the risk of someone accessing data on the device we wish to not grant.
i.e. a Client application that holds all client details requires a level of security for Data protection.
On this we cannot allow unauthorised application to access the system in case of data breach
If there was no Knox we would have no way to control this.
Rooting a device breaks the security of Knox, hence the Trip on the counter.
This just means for someone like me, i can see that someone has attempted to access the system in ways not permitted in the contract.
In other countries the Knox has voided peoples warranty, But i find it a hard ground for them to stand on considering its all Software.

I actually purchased it from Amazon.de but the same should apply.
Regardless, the only thing (that we currently know of) that affects 'us' as consumers is the loss of Samsung Pay (if and when it arrives in the UK). Is there anything else that goes along with KNOX?

dave7802 said:
Okay simple:
UK here on EE
Knox = Never effected my warranty
Knox = Security Suit, Its for Businesses, So we can issue devices without the risk of someone accessing data on the device we wish to not grant.
i.e. a Client application that holds all client details requires a level of security for Data protection.
On this we cannot allow unauthorised application to access the system in case of data breach
If there was no Knox we would have no way to control this.
Rooting a device breaks the security of Knox, hence the Trip on the counter.
This just means for someone like me, i can see that someone has attempted to access the system in ways not permitted in the contract.
In other countries the Knox has voided peoples warranty, But i find it a hard ground for them to stand on considering its all Software.
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Click to collapse
I actually purchased it from Amazon.de but the same should apply.
Regardless, the only thing (that we currently know of) that affects 'us' as consumers is the loss of Samsung Pay (if and when it arrives in the UK). Is there anything else that goes along with KNOX?

ombadboy said:
I actually purchased it from Amazon.de but the same should apply.
Regardless, the only thing (that we currently know of) that affects 'us' as consumers is the loss of Samsung Pay (if and when it arrives in the UK). Is there anything else that goes along with KNOX?
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But does Knox void the manufacturers warranty or not?

gaz_0001 said:
But does Knox void the manufacturers warranty or not?
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This is open for debate and there are known examples either way. It certainly didn't in the past here in the UK, or perhaps I was just lucky. Around 18 months ago I sent my S4 in for repair with a faulty sim tray. And despite Knox being tripped, they replaced the mainboard no questions asked and it was returned with a different serial number and Knox at 0x0. However, I have since read about a couple of people sending their S7/S7E off for repair and being refused thanks to a tripped Knox flag.
To sum up, I wouldn't rule out a warranty repair with a knox trip, but nor would I assume it will definitely happen. I suspect it depends on a combination of factors. The repair center and whether the engineer got laid the night before being two of them.