Related
Thanks to all of you that have hit thanks on my posts. You make me look good
As many of you know, there is a way to install Preware which is not unlike Cydia on the iPad. WebOS has a great homebrew community that is supported by HP. Perks include Overclocking to 1.5+Ghz, free homebrew apps, and many great tweaks. Try it out by following the directions below.
If your TouchPad isn't seen by the PC your using, download and install the WebOS SDK here.
-Download WebOS Quick install to your computer HERE
-Put your Touchpad into development mode by:
Launching Device Info and tap its top-left menu.
Selecting "Custom Application..." and typing in: ##3386633#
In the application, move the Developer Mode slider to the On position.
Tap Reset the Device.
When reset is complete, Developer mode is enabled.
IMPORTANT : DONT MAKE A PASSWORD ON DEVELOPMENT MODE OR YOU'LL HAVE TO WIPE YOUR ENTIRE PAD.
-Plug in your pad and tap charge only on the prompt (in the corner).
-Now go to quick install on your computer, launch it (you may have to update Java)
-Hit the little globe button, and wait for things to load.
-Scroll down to Preware and install it. (Your device might reboot after installation.)
-You can now install things from preware, like Uberkernel that overclocks the processor to 1.5ghz (under Kernels)
Note : to Oc, you must download the app govnah from preware.
This was done on my MacBook pro, should work with windows or anything really, as long as Java works.
To sideloade apps, install Internalz pro and you can install .ipk files, which are the same as .apk and .ipa files for android and ios.
For more info until this community grows, go to Precentral, its like XDA for webOS. Tons of good people over there. Thanks to Rootzwiki and Precentral for helping me out too.
Feel free to hit the Thanks button if I helped!
-andrewxu
NOTE
See POST 16 by Nburnes for a more detailed guide if this isn't enough.
andrewxu said:
As most of you know there is a way to install preware, which is not unlike cydia on the ipad.
To do so, download webos quick install, and put your pad into development mode. (Google both)
Plug in your pad and tap charge only.
Now go to quick install on your computer, launch it (you may have to update Java)
Hit the little globe button, wait for things to load.
Scroll to preware and install it.
Your device might reboot
You can now install things from preware, like uberkernel that overclocks the processor to 1.5ghz
Note : to Oc, you must download the app govnah from preware.
This is meant to be a quick outline, a Google search will speed things up, and will find files to download.
Links etc will be added.
This was done on my MacBook pro, should work with windows or anything really, as long as Java works.
Hit thanks if I helped.
-andrewxu :l
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks! nice guide
Is it possible to sideload the US only Kindle app via preware?
Easy as pie, thank you!
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Awesome write up thanks..still waiting for mine in mail,ugh :0)
Inquitus said:
Is it possible to sideload the US only Kindle app via preware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After installing Preware download and install Internalz Pro. Internalz is a file explorer that will install .ipk files. Just put the Amazon app on your internal storage and install.
chadillac0000 said:
After installing Preware download and install Internalz Pro. Internalz is a file explorer that will install .ipk files. Just put the Amazon app on your internal storage and install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye ipk is available here for anyone who wants the kindle beta
The most important thing to know about installing PreWare is that when you put your phone into development mode NEVER CREATE A PASSWORD. Leave it blank, keep it blank. If you create a password you won't be able to install anything, you'll have to erase your device and start from scratch. Found this by luck on a forum post over at PreCentral - it doesn't seem to be in any of the FAQ posts around the web.
That uberkernel has me interested. How much of a noticeable performance change does it offer? Is it stable? How much of a battery life decrease can you expect? How much of a concern is overheating?
Thank you.
Precentral.net has a lot of info and more specifics.
Uberkernel is stable. Battery life is unaffected to me, still get over a day which is all that matters.
No lag Like I used to have. Now if we had enough apps in the market or whatever to fill up a page, I'd be happy.
-andrewxu :l
Thanks for the info mate, gonna grab my copy tomorrow morning
Wupideedoo said:
That uberkernel has me interested. How much of a noticeable performance change does it offer? Is it stable? How much of a battery life decrease can you expect? How much of a concern is overheating?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question about Uberkernel is what rev of Linux Kernel is it... and in theory, wouldn't this have the drivers necessary to make Android happy on this device (assuming the 2.6.x rev is similar to what 2.3.3's running)?
Why would you need to side load Kindle, the link to the app store for kindle came on my touchpad... it's in the app catalog for free...
Now, loading ipks from internal storage... darn handy. Thanks!
The HP Touchpad Guide
Well uh yea, since multiple persons have asked me for it, I decided to try my hand at this little guide writing thing. I do apologize for it looking bland. All this information is on the web. I have simply brought it together here for users of this forum. Please do read it all.
Note that this guide deals with only one manner of installing Preware onto your device. For more information, please take a look at the source links.
Important Terms
webOS – Proprietary mobile operating system running on the Linux Kernel, originally built by Palm, acquired in 2010 by HP. It is closed source with certain aspects open source under GPL.
Homebrew – Packages built by a dev or simple user for another end user. These include things such as simple to complex games, patches, tweaks, kernels, etc. These are neither directly supported nor officially condoned by HP. Some homebrew can void the warranty.
Preware – Basically the Cydia of WebOS. It allows for installing of homebrew applications, themes, patches and over 1600 Linux programs.
Kernel – Main componenet of most computer operating systems. It is the bridge between applications and actual data processiong done at the hardware level.
Luna – Basically this is what is “logged” into the device, such as springboard on iOS. It is the devices App Controller.
Palm webOS SDK – Exactly as it sounds, the SDK for webOS.
WebOS Quick Install – Program that allows for use of webOS applications that are in-testing. These are under agreement that allows for unapproved applications to be installed on Palm/HP devices. These have not been tested by Palm/HP and are installed at own risk.
WebOS Doctor – Borked your device? This tool from HP/Palm will hopefully restore it to a usable state.
Novaterm/Novacom – Allows for Windows/OSX to talk to the Linux on the webOS devices.
Feeds – Equivalint of sources on Cydia. They are the places you add if you want more tweaks, themes, kernels, applications, etc.
Gaining Developers Mode
1. Go to main screen
2. Select “Just type...” bar
3. In the bar type “webos20090606” without the quotes
4. Tap the Developer Mode icon
5. Set Developer Mode to ON
6. Don't enter a password, simply hit Submit
7. Congrats device is in developer mode for use with SDK or webOS Quick Install
webOS Quick Install
Java based program that has cross platform support. (Windows, Mac OS X, Linux)
Requires:
Java 1.6+ - Make sure you are up to date
Novacom – Will automagically be installed when your first run webOS Quick Install
DevMode Enabled
1. Download latest version here. V4.2.3 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2774158/WebOSQuickInstall-4.2.3.jar
2. Connect device in developer mode and select “Cancel” when mount as usb notification appears.
3. Run webOS Quick Install. If novacom driver isn't installed, it shall install for you.
4. Click third button on the right side (Globe icon)
5. Click on “All” box
6. Proceed to search for “Preware”
7. Click Install
8. Congrats Preware is now installed on your webOS device.
If this method creates some form of issue more information on installing Preware can be read here - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware
Thanks for Bigjzoo - If you use Lion go to this link to download the Novacom Drivers. You won't be able to download them through QuickInstall. It will fail.
Now the fun parts really begin.
Preware
Newest version as of 8/22 – v1.7.3
Upon first launch, Preware will download and update all feeds. It will ask to associate .ipks with Preware, choose yes. You will then be greeted by a screen that has “Available Packages”, “Installed Packages”, “List of Everything”. These are all hopefully rather straight forward sounding.
In the top left corner where it says Preware, this drops down to allow for Preferances, updating/managing feeds, Luna manager, saving package list, etc.
Moving back to “Available Packages” you will find lists of things you can install. On my Touchpad it is the following:
1. Applications
2. Font
3. Kernel
4. Linux Application
5. Linux Daemon
6. Optware
7. Patch
8. Plugin
9. Service
10. Unknown
You can trawl through these on your time, but I have a list of current tweaks/apps/kernel I personally recommend installing or have installed on my device.
1. Govnah – Allows for overclocking. Simple as that.
2. Internalz Pro – Powerful file manger for webOS.
3. Preader Native Alpha – (This is an alpha so a little buggy) Allows for reading of ePub, eReader, MobiPocket, PalmDOC, plaintext, and HTML files.
4. Uberkernel – Stable kernel that allows for overclocking up to 1.5Ghz.
5. Add Launcher Tabs – Adds tabs to launcher that include, Games and Homebrew.
6. EOM Overlord Monitoring – Stops the process that Palm included that literally logs everything that you basically do on the device. Sorta creepy.
7. Ad Blocker – Blocks ads.
8. Advanced Reset Options – When holding power instead of just “Shutdown” gives option of “Airplane Mode”, “Luna Restart” (hot reboot), “Device Restart”, “Shutdown”.
9. Muffle System Logging – works with EOM Overlord to stop unnecessary logging of the system.
10. Unthrottle Download Manager – Does exactly as it sounds.
11. Faster Card animations – Makes opening app drawer very speedy. Applications and cards seem to open much faster, I highly recommend.
12. Touchplayer - Plays pretty much every video file format.
List of Packages that users may be interested in
1. Increase Touch Sensitivity and smoothness – Pretty self-explanatory.
2. Just Charge by defaulty – Instead of prompting to mount as USB when connected to PC, it will “Just charge”.
3. Remove Tap Ripple – Removes the tap ripple effect. (I personally love the ripple <3)
Overclocking
Requires:
An overclocked kernel installed
Govnah to be installed
Overclocking on these devices are a breeze.
1. Open Govnah
2. Click on "Profile"
3. Choose OnDemandTCL 1512 if you want a stable 1.5GHz clock
4. Go back
5. Congrats you are overclocked
More info on Govnah.
More advanced users may go under advanced settings choosing CPU freq scheduler, TCP congestion, etc.
I personally like 192 Mhz min, 1.7 GHz max, conservative govenor with the BFQ I/O scheduler.
Now for those looking into ridiculous overclocking (1.7 ghz+) or just running very Alpha/beta software, I recommend looking at how to set up your device with webOS Internals Testing Feeds.
Link here - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds#Using_Preware
Source List
1. WebOS Internals - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page
2. How to recover (webOS Doctor how-to) - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover
3. WebOS Doctor versions - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions
4. WebOS Quick Install - http://forums.precentral.net/canuck-coding/274461-webos-quick-install-v4-1-1-a.html
5. Preware - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware
6. Govnah - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Govnah
HP underclocked the processor, it's supposed to be at 1.5ghz. This solved almost any lag on the device.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Um.. what's going on? I have a touchpad. First webos for me. Preware on touchpad = root/jailbreak? Dang I don't even know what I'm talking about. Is there a word for newer than noob? That's definitely what I feel like reading this thread. If someone could point me to some info on the before and after of installing Preware I'd be thankful.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
I sent you a private message (pm). Do you know how to reply?
Jailbreaking and rooting and installing preware all allow unofficial programs to be installed on devices. These apps have more privliges than normal apps, and the ability to control things most apps can't (preventing virus and piracy).
For advanced users this is appealing, more productivity and customization can be had.
reggie cheeks said:
Um.. what's going on? I have a touchpad. First webos for me. Preware on touchpad = root/jailbreak? Dang I don't even know what I'm talking about. Is there a word for newer than noob? That's definitely what I feel like reading this thread. If someone could point me to some info on the before and after of installing Preware I'd be thankful.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
reggie cheeks said:
Um.. what's going on? I have a touchpad. First webos for me. Preware on touchpad = root/jailbreak? Dang I don't even know what I'm talking about. Is there a word for newer than noob? That's definitely what I feel like reading this thread. If someone could point me to some info on the before and after of installing Preware I'd be thankful.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1230576
Note: This is done within WebOs, with preware installed, and a program called Internalz Pro installed from preware
1.Launch Internalz Pro (for help installing Internalz Pro see here)
2.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
3.Tap “Preferences”
4.Scroll to the bottom of the screen and toggle the “Master mode” setting to “On.”
5.Tap “Yes” when the “Enable Master Mode?” warning screen appears.
6.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
7.Tap “Close”
8.Using Internalz Pro, navigate to the following directory:
/boot
You can tap the “..” icon at the top of the navigation structure to move up one directory at any time during navigation. Your current location will always be listed at the top of the window. Simply keep tapping on the appropriate directory names (moving up a level if you need to backtrack or make a mistake) until you reach the proper location.
9.Tap the “mooboot.default” file.
10.Tap “Open”
11.Change the line:
CyanogenMod
to
WebOS
NOTE: DO NOT COPY & PASTE THIS LINE
12.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
13.Tap “Save File”
14.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
15.Tap “Close”
16.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
17.Tap “Preferences”
18.Scroll to the bottom of the screen and toggle the “Master mode” setting to “Off.”
19.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
20.Tap “Close”
21.Close Internalz Pro.
22.Restart the Touchpad. Now, WebOS will be selected as the default Operating System instead of CyanogenMod Android from the boot menu.
BigBadWolf84 said:
Note: This is done within WebOs, with preware installed, and a program called Internalz Pro installed from preware
1.Launch Internalz Pro (for help installing Internalz Pro see here)
2.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
3.Tap “Preferences”
4.Scroll to the bottom of the screen and toggle the “Master mode” setting to “On.”
5.Tap “Yes” when the “Enable Master Mode?” warning screen appears.
6.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
7.Tap “Close”
8.Using Internalz Pro, navigate to the following directory:
/boot
You can tap the “..” icon at the top of the navigation structure to move up one directory at any time during navigation. Your current location will always be listed at the top of the window. Simply keep tapping on the appropriate directory names (moving up a level if you need to backtrack or make a mistake) until you reach the proper location.
9.Tap the “mooboot.default” file.
10.Tap “Open”
11.Change the line:
CyanogenMod
to
WebOS
NOTE: DO NOT COPY & PASTE THIS LINE
12.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
13.Tap “Save File”
14.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
15.Tap “Close”
16.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
17.Tap “Preferences”
18.Scroll to the bottom of the screen and toggle the “Master mode” setting to “Off.”
19.Tap “Internalz Pro” in the top left-hand corner to open the application menu.
20.Tap “Close”
21.Close Internalz Pro.
22.Restart the Touchpad. Now, WebOS will be selected as the default Operating System instead of CyanogenMod Android from the boot menu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, but wouldn't modifying moboot.default file be easier? Run the following command from terminal or through adb:
echo "webOS " > /boot/moboot.default
All you need to do is mount the boot partition prior to doing this which I assume can be done through TWRP or you can google it. Then again, pretty sure 95 out of a 100 users would want Android to boots by default.
dallas.maverick said:
sorry, but wouldn't modifying moboot.default file be easier? Run the following command from terminal or through adb:
echo "WebOS " > /boot/moboot.default
All you need to do is mount the boot partition prior to doing this which I assume can be done through TWRP or you can google it. Then again, pretty sure 95 out of a 100 users would want Android to boots by default.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it should be "webOS" not "WebOS" ...
I tried using the easier method you mentioned but I think due to my lack of knowledge I was unable to get it to work. I just stumbled upon this at a website and it worked for me. I just thought this might be helpfull to anyone else like me. Wanted to install preware anyway.
BigBadWolf84 said:
I tried using the easier method you mentioned but I think due to my lack of knowledge I was unable to get it to work. I just stumbled upon this at a website and it worked for me. I just thought this might be helpfull to anyone else like me. Wanted to install preware anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, no worries. I am sure there are others who couldn't get the easier method to work, so your steps will be appreciated. If you want to provide some additional details on where you failed in the easier method, maybe I can offer some additional help in case you need it in the future.
---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------
jcsullins said:
it should be "webOS" not "WebOS" ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, corrected the typo in my post.
Another option
Or you could just install CyBoot in webOS and change the default back and forth to your liking. It just modifies the moboot file and it is stupid-easy, you cannot screw it up.
I rarely even boot into webOS anymore though. Waiting for the first open source update!
CM7 (and soon ICS CM9) are doing me fine right now.
Funny, I did this on my own by mistake. Just run Acme Installer and only have moboot and CWM in the cminstall folder. Put the Android build anywhere else (like the root). You then install Android from CWM. WebOS will be default. I was going crazy trying to stop webOS from being default, lol.
Sent from my GT-i9100 using xda premium
+1 for cyboot package from preware. It has an idiotproof UI, and you can change the time of the delay.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Funny that the first time I installed android it booted into android by default but since I installed or upgraded to a newer rom its webos as the primary OS boot.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App
nunjabusiness said:
Or you could just install CyBoot in webOS and change the default back and forth to your liking. It just modifies the moboot file and it is stupid-easy, you cannot screw it up.
I rarely even boot into webOS anymore though. Waiting for the first open source update!
CM7 (and soon ICS CM9) are doing me fine right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny, I'm the opposite. I only boot in to Android for specific applications. I've gotten used to the speed and ease of use of webOS. I'm an Android guy since the G1 days but frankly, Palm's OS is much more polished. if it had the corporate backing and application stack I doubt I'd ever run Android on my tablet. Now on my phone, completely different story.
I wish I would have known about Cyboot as I searched and searched for an easy way to get a default boot into WebOs. All the info I found pretty much assumed I understood @;/?& acronyms and how to properly type commands in the terminal. I'm an old dos man and still could not get all the commands typed right. Off to preware for Cyboot. Thanks All!
Sent from my Vibrant
A humble request for your Forum Mod
@ALL
This forum can be great if we all do our part. If possible take a peek at this thread and provide your valued input;
NEW Sticky Thread (Input Requested) - Themes & Apps & Q&A Forums Added!
Thanks,
-krook6023 (XDA MOD TEAM)
P.S. I know off topic post and thread-hijack from a mod...
Agreed
My exact sentiments also. I think webOS is the ultimate OS for tablets and if the developers of either "Words with Friends" or "Wordfeud" would create a client for the Touchpad I doubt I would even have Android installed on it. I also use an Android phone, webOS doesn't cut it for me as a phone.
jonjon68 said:
Funny, I'm the opposite. I only boot in to Android for specific applications. I've gotten used to the speed and ease of use of webOS. I'm an Android guy since the G1 days but frankly, Palm's OS is much more polished. if it had the corporate backing and application stack I doubt I'd ever run Android on my tablet. Now on my phone, completely different story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trying to support WebOs by buying apps that I can use to work and play. I love Android but I am quite satisfied with Android on my phone and WebOs on my Touchpad. WebOs takes some getting used to but kinda feels like an old comfortable T-Shirt. It's not that popular of an Os so web surfing and downloads don't worry me at the moment. I am watching CM9 and probably will try out Android again on the Touchpad but CM7 caused weird boot issues that I didn't care to live with. With WebOs I just turn my Touchpad on and go. Thats what I really like and all that matters to me. All you guys and gals at XDA really show me the possibilities.
BigBadWolf84 said:
Trying to support WebOs by buying apps that I can use to work and play. I love Android but I am quite satisfied with Android on my phone and WebOs on my Touchpad. WebOs takes some getting used to but kinda feels like an old comfortable T-Shirt. It's not that popular of an Os so web surfing and downloads don't worry me at the moment. I am watching CM9 and probably will try out Android again on the Touchpad but CM7 caused weird boot issues that I didn't care to live with. With WebOs I just turn my Touchpad on and go. Thats what I really like and all that matters to me. All you guys and gals at XDA really show me the possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I liked webOS, didn't quite like CM7, since it's a gingerbread, not for tablet. You should really try CM9, it's like night and day compared to CM7. I haven't boot to webOS since.
dallas.maverick said:
sorry, but wouldn't modifying moboot.default file be easier? Run the following command from terminal or through adb:
echo "webOS " > /boot/moboot.default
All you need to do is mount the boot partition prior to doing this which I assume can be done through TWRP or you can google it. Then again, pretty sure 95 out of a 100 users would want Android to boots by default.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easy way, from something like Xterm on webOS missed one line.
# mount -o remount,rw /boot
# echo "webOS " > /boot/moboot.default
then give it a reboot.
Is CyBoot not in the HP Appstore anymore? I can't find it in the catalog and I'd like to try that out before going and trying the OP's method. Thanks guys.
jman391 said:
Is CyBoot not in the HP Appstore anymore? I can't find it in the catalog and I'd like to try that out before going and trying the OP's method. Thanks guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't think it was in the official HP store. I found it in preware.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
quarlow said:
I didn't think it was in the official HP store. I found it in preware.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I found it. Lol. But now, I can't get CyBoot to work with CM9. WebOS boots by default, but when I set to boot android on next boot, but I get no choice upon rebooting. It boots webOS by default everytime.
jman391 said:
Yeah, I found it. Lol. But now, I can't get CyBoot to work with CM9. WebOS boots by default, but when I set to boot android on next boot, but I get no choice upon rebooting. It boots webOS by default everytime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anytime I install a new ICS ROM it makes that choice the new default. I never tried the next boot option. I only used cyboot to change the default TO webOS, as every android install changed the default to android. You can try to edit the file as described in this thread. That can be done through internalzpro in webOS. Make sure you type the exact option as it appears in moboot, and it is case sensitive. Cyboot is just a GUI on top of that process.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
For question 1, yes, this is what I did.
For question 2 I don't know.
SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you can. the installer will give you options on what you want to keep
no. you must create a restore image on an external hard drive if you want to return back to windows 7
In-place upgrades are possible and are technically a supported scenario, but they are a *terrible* idea. They are, at best, going to save you a bit of time reinstalling apps (even though the install process itself takes vastly longer when doing an in-place upgrade, so I'm not sure it's a net positive even there). At worst, you'll end up with an unbootable system due to an unexpected driver incompatibility or something silly like that, lose all your data, and need to reformat and do a clean install anyhow. The usual result is somewhere in between; your system will be less stable than it should be, will take longer to boot up, some programs won't work after the upgrade and will need to be reinstalled anyhow, and at some point in the near-ish future (six months to two years) your systme will develop odd misbehaviors that will require you to effectively reinstall WIndows anyhow (that's what the refresh and reset operations in Win8 basically do, with or without preserving your files, respectively).
Also, if you opt for a clean install, you'll know you have a backup of all your data. That's pretty valuable. You can (and should; the bit about the upgrade failing and you losing access to your data was not a joke) make such a backup anyhow, of course.
As for being able to revert to Win7, the only way that'll happen is if you back up the whole system drive. Restore points don't work between major versions; if you do an in-place upgrade, you won't be able to downgrade it again short of restoring a backup or wiping the system and instally Win7 cleanly.
I did it
SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After doing an in place Upgrade on my box i hope my story will help you.
I simply couldn't resist the offer MS made 'til 28 Feb 2013 so i downloaded Windows 8 64 Bit to my Laptop and after the Upgrade Assistant gave me a green light and promised except for the ATI drivers everything should work out i started the upgrade. After roughly 4 h the Upgrade process was done and windows 8 ready. Even the mentioned ATI driver was not a big problem because after the initial upgrade windows 8 asked if i would care to update it and did so.
Windows 8 is creating a Backup of your current installation so there is a restore point you can use. I did not try it out and after 2 weeks i deleted the restore Point.
So far so good. The installation wasn't that complicated. Unfortunately after that i could no longer install any Program or update. The reason behind it was that the upgrade process is exchanging something in the users Registry and after that the security checks simply denied me access to the file System. Even booting in recovery mode did not help (just like my Android GBook tablet at the moment ) . Only way to cope this was to create a new User with Admin Rights as a replacement. Doing so one of my document Folders got lost in transition. I still have no Idea what happened but after moving a Folder from MyDocuments user old to MyDocouments user new the Move process suddenly died and the files where gone. I did have a Backup so luckily it was just annoying but still gave me a rough time figuring out what happened.
You will probably be bothered to reinstall some applications (MS Apps will work) and the new interface is something to get used to for a Lot of Developers.
My System turned quiet a bit slower because of the ever running index service etc. Indexing is even denying write access to newly created files quite regularly and you will have to wait for it to finish before file operations are possible. You definitively have to tune system services if you want a system that is not slowing you down.
My final advice after 2 Month using Win8?
Don't do an in place upgrade it if you don't have to. Windows 7 was working perfectly for me. After 15 years of IT Support under my belly (even thou most of it doing Back-office Servers) Win7 felt like an OS that wasn't in the way and did a great Job. Windows 8 will get in your way via slowing down your Box and making steps that were natural in win7 more cumbersome.
Especially System settings are more or less hidden (because the average "dummy" user needs to be protected from it :silly: ) and are hard to find. Turning every entry in your Start menu into an Metro Icon does not Help either. It's just messing up your start screen. Be Prepared to switch between metro and "normal Desktop" quite often if you are still using "older" programs. Even if you don't want to your Program will decide for you .
I think a fresh install helps in that category because it might make it easier to "switch your mind" to the new environment. It will also be a chance to clean your System of old and rarely used programs.
If you still want your Upgrade make sure your Backups are up to date and Working!
Hope this is helping you out.
Cheers
Lanman99
Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade.
Four hours to upgrade (when a clean install takes 15 minutes): check
Permissions messed up afterward: check
Performace actually decreased (even though a clean install of Win8 performs better than a clean install of Win7 on the same hardware): check
Data loss (your Documents folder): check
As for your points re: Win8 itself: first of all, if your only experience with it is based on that abomination of an in-place upgraded system, assume everything you "know" about the OS from that experience is wrong. I've been running Win8 for ~1.5 years now (counting betas) and have never had the problem with indexing service (which runs low-priority and doesn't take system resources that you're trying to use for anything else), data loss from library or folder movement, or any of the other problems you mention. I did try an upgrade install during the betas, but the result was trash - a bunch of features didn't work afterward, and the performance was worse than it should be - and the response when I reported the issues was "do a clean install". Upgrade installs are only *technically* supported; even MS thinks they're a bad idea.
Judging on OS based on an upgrade install is like judging a car model based on taking that car's interior and body, but replacing the engine, transmission, suspension, electronics, wheels, brakes, lights, and wipers with random junk you pulled out of a wrecking yard (without checking the original model) and beat into shape with a hammer and a hacksaw. Sure, it *looks* like it's easier (cheaper than making the needed money to buy the actual model) than buying a new car, and if you're really careful and moderately lucky, it will actually run pretty well and not strand you in the middle of nowhere or burst into flame or something awkward like that. It's going to be a complete pain in the ass to maintain though, you'll end up having spent a ton of time hacking it together in the first place and then keeping it running until you quickly pass the point where it would have been easier to just get the new car, and in the meantime it will never perform as well as it "should" have. Putting a bunch of junk car parts in a BMW body does not mean you're driving a BMW.
By the way, those problems that I didn't have? That even includes the "switching back and forth" thing, because I found it was a lot better to just not use Metro at all. I treat the Start screen the same way I treat the Start menu on older NT6.x versions: an irrelevant graphical thing that pops up for the half second where I type the name of a program I want, in between when I hit the Windows key and when I hit Enter. I pinned my most-used apps to the taskbar. My typical admin stuff is on the Win+X (or right-click the Start button - yes, there is one, it's just hidden until you hover over it) menu. Outlook is a better mail client than Mail, and better scheduling tool than Calendar. Pidgin is better than Messenger. If for some reason I want to log into Facebook, I have this thing called a "web browser" (which runs in a window, with all its features instead of a crippled subset of them, thank you very much).
Metro Skype is good enough I do use it sometimes, although I snap it to one edge of my (very wide) screen so it doesn't get in the way; I've considered going back to desktop Skype anyhow. Desktop SkyDrive is much better than the Metro one. Same for desktop OneNote vs. the Metro version. The only Metro apps I actually use much are games, and frankly I don't use Metro games that often on my main (desktop) Win8 box; why would I, when I could play Eve Online or Civilization / Alpha Centauri instead?
I only had the problem of a few games and visual studio needing a reinstall on my upgraded system. Not one of the other issues mentioned.
Oh, also had an issue where before the update it said my GPU drivers wouldn't work post upgrade, they did and as soon as I upgraded I was able to obtain native windows 8 drivers anyway. My integrated GPU was fine.
GoodDayToDie said:
Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade....
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Abomination is probably a bit harsh (i'm still working on that monster )
Don't get me wrong. I don't wan't to bash windows 8 for the sake of it. I just don't see a urgent reason to advise SysAdmNj to upgrade. Especially not an in-place upgrade. And i definitely agree that a clean install is the first choice to move to any new OS.
BUT surprisingly i pulled the same stunt growing from Vista to win7 on my Dell Studio 17 which went great. I had 1 issue with the on-board camera but other than that my notebook was running better, faster and more stable afterward and that was the primary reason why i tried it again with win7 to win8 on my lenovo. Still i got it working and at least it gave me valuable support experience and it's a dirty job but somebody...
Reason to try Metro is also based on my Idea to stay ahead of my Users. I think Metrostyle systems will be heading in our direction if we want it or not. It is to tempting for the marketing branches of our major OS vendors so i keep tinkering with it.
That "Back and Forth" simply lies in the program designs. It will just take me some time to get used to it, sorry but i'm old ).
Some of my apps (namely Hotmail which became Outlook) are seamlessly integrated and as you already mentioned much better than before most others are still written for WinXP/Vista/7 and will bring you back to familiar havens. Internet is done by a heavily customized FF portable, so carefree covered.
My main critique boils down to System settings Metro style. A lot of settings, tools and tweaks which grew into supporters hands look castrated to fit the average users need. That really is annoying. It looks i have to brush up on system scripting skills to support my colleagues. Thought i could get away with less typing these days :crying:.
...and yes switching a self patched '74 Beetle engine in a 2013 Beamer won't make a Racing machine but it looks funny trying to get away with it .
Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7
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Yes if you are on your desktop. Starting up Metro won't give you that. You have to switch to your Desktop first. Or activate "All Apps" and sidescroll to Systemsettings. Besides it is not integrated which leads you again to your Desktop.
So System Settings = getting around Metro. The Settings Metro offers are still limited. Which IMHO is not a good way to do it. Yes it sounds nitpicking but if MS decides to get completely rid of our beloved Desktop, Metro is all you get.
But as i said, maybe just getting old...
On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.
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In windows 8.2, there is supposed to be the Pc settings with more options like power options in it. This will not get rid of the desktop control panel though
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Maybe I should have created a poll. Should I stay on windows 7 or upgrade?
I dont know now. I'm not crazy about windows 8. I'm fine on windows 7. Thing is most laptops come with windows 8 so I thought I might as well start familiarizing myself more. Although to be honest I think even if I was to buy a new laptop with windows 8, I would just clone that image and just restore a windows 7 image with all my apps etc. That or just change the hdd with mines
But thanks for all the insights.
Win8 does perform better, and has some cool new features (built-in ISO mounting, for example, is long overdue). If you do what I do, and mostly treat it as Win7 that has one more slot on the Taskbar than normal, it's a great OS. There are some things that mildly bug me, like the removal of window border transparency, but that's hardly a big deal.
The Win+X menu (or right-click on Start) can be done from anywhere; you don't have to be on the Desktop already. Selecting the Control Panel from that menu will open up the Desktop-mode Control Panel whether you're in the Desktop, the Start screen, or some Metro app.
I actually prefer the lack of border transparency and the flat colours etc, guess that's just personal preference though.
If you have a spare box--techies should always have a spare box--pop Win8 onto it to play around. If you're happy with Win7, I'd stick with that for your production box(es).
It's OK to skip Win8 (and 8.1). It's a transition rev, and biz won't migrate to it. There'll be more changes when Win9 rolls out next year, so even if you're set on sticking with Win, you can save half the work by jumping on Win9 then, because sure as heck you won't stay with 8.x when 9 is out.
Basically, if it's fun, then do it. If it's work, then don't.
There hasn't even been so much as a hint from Microsoft that there will be a windows 9 any time soon. I think we're in for a few more years of updates yet, windows 8 can still be "fixed".
Microsft stated - over a year ago, I think - that Windows was moving to an annual, smaller-releases cycle. Win8 and WP8 were the first OSed released after that announcement, with "Blue" for Windows and Windows Phone expected later this year (about one year after the W*8 releases). WP9-related job postings, referencing that OS by name/number, have already been posted on LinkedIn as well.
My biggest fear is that troubleshooting, and the hell hole of creating network drives, sharing permissions and all kinds of other thigns I had to do to stream my Media to my android and PS3 will just repeat itself or get worst if I upgrade.
What are the general experiences with media and directory sharing on Windows 8 vs Windows 7? Can you drop all of Microsoft's security mechanisms as a whole?
hm
write a simple script for your network file sharing, are you doing an upgrade or going from scratch?
buffalosolja42 said:
write a simple script for your network file sharing, are you doing an upgrade or going from scratch?
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Unsure about that. I would like to from scratch since if I do make the move to Windows 8 I will probably load it onto an SSD and have two HDDs for storage
Wrong forum, mate. This is Windows Phone 8. The Windows 8 forum is over there. Please ask a moderator to move this thread.
I was shocked with how stable Windows 7 is, it very rarely freezes or reboots etc.
I can't believe how often Windows 8 freezes, reboots, fails to start, can't diagnose startup problems or if it does, I do it 3 times and somehow it finds a problem on the third time, why is that?
I use exactly the same programs on each OS. I have used 8 preview, 8 and now 8.1 each one is unstable and creates problems. For a desktop user, it's a nightmare.
SharpnShiny said:
I was shocked with how stable Windows 7 is, it very rarely freezes or reboots etc.
I can't believe how often Windows 8 freezes, reboots, fails to start, can't diagnose startup problems or if it does, I do it 3 times and somehow it finds a problem on the third time, why is that?
I use exactly the same programs on each OS. I have used 8 preview, 8 and now 8.1 each one is unstable and creates problems. For a desktop user, it's a nightmare.
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I have been running windows 8 on my daily use machine since the week it launched, not once has it frozen, rebooted or failed to boot. Nor have I heard of such prolific issues from anyone else
Honestly I threw 8.1 preview on one of two new boxes at home, 7 Ultimate on the other.
Both with SSD caching and boot times are similar. Performance also seems similar.
I got one copy of 8 for one system and one for the other.
Metro was made for touch screens (and is great with one) - but the box with 8 will never have it.
So I have it boot straight to desktop and I'll live on the desktop except for occasionally finding an app.
(Think I might look at that Pokki or other start menu alternatives..)
If you have a touch screen go 8. If you don't stick with 7...
According to me it is not up to the mark...... 7 is better may be future updates may change my attitude...
Sent from my Xperia U using xda app-developers app
I cannot find *one* thing superior in windows 7 to windows 8 bar the fact that driver signature enforcement is enabled (but can be disabled for a single boot if you need to install some drivers anyway, once installed an unsigned driver will work fine after a reboot).
Start button being absent like everyone complains about. Who seriously uses the start button? All it does is let you launch programs or shut the PC down. Well I can launch programs just fine from desktop (albeit I like a clean desktop so don't), task bar, start screen or via search. Search is easy to get to, hit the windows key to go to the start screen, start typing and it immediately searches for that program. Shutdown, I never shut down from the start bar anyway and haven't in years, Control-Alt-Delete, or charms bar > settings > Power > Shutdown. Or windows key + D to go to desktop (or the button on the task bar, or some other way that I don't care to mention) and hit alt-F4 and windows will prompt for shutdown. Admin functions like control panel etc, hold the windows key and press X, a menu appears where the start button used to reside and lists most useful functions immediately, or you can move the mouse into the bottom left so the button to go to the start screen appears and then right click it.
Metro/Start as they prefer to call it that (seriously, they dropped the metro name way before full release) you look at for all of 2 seconds. I have a tile on it to go to desktop, but prefer to use windows key + D. Other than that, I actually use it with tiles for my favourite programs neatly pinned to it.
The start button is archaic. I saw someone saying that its impossible to throw away years of using a start button, I honestly wondered who was still using it, it was hideous. I got my first PC when I was 8, 2002 if you must know. At the age of 8 you learn to do things 1 way and usually stick to that. Yet I got windows 8 shortly after release (it was still during the discounted price period) and adapted to the lack of start bar within an hour, prior to that I was a heavy computer user. There we go, 11/12 years of heavy computer usage with the start bar being present and I throw it out within an hour. That was so hard.
Things change. Deal with it. The start button has been with us for how long and it is finally old enough that it needs putting to rest. Once upon a time we only used "primitive" command line entry systems (many still do), many of those users were angry when the modern desktop appeared, now its commonplace.
SixSixSevenSeven;45816830 ...
Start button being absent like everyone complains about. Who seriously uses the start button?[/QUOTE said:
Are you serious?
Given that Windows 8 has been dubbed the new Vista by many major publications, computer experts and power PC users, and that one of the biggest complaints among these users and businesses in surveys and that feedback from multiple major global PC manufacturers from consumers that the Start Menu was one of their key issues, given that the largest computer manufactuer by sales - Lenovo has intervened and preinstalled the free Start Menu replacement Pokki on all new Windows 8 machines, given the sheer amount of questions on this site about the Start Menu, give the huge number of sales of 3rd party software that replace the missing Start Menu (such as Start8) I would say many, many, many of us use the Start Button and the Start Menu.
Logical error #1 'If I have no use for this, then no one else does' ...
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Vista came out six years ago. Huge numbers of people *still* actually go into a menu structure to find their programs instead of just typing a few letters of the program name or description or executable file name, then hitting Enter.
The only conclusion I've been able to draw from this is that the majority of computer users are, in effect, idiots. This seems somewhat unlikely, but I'm pretty sure that recognizing the advantages in speed and convenience do not require above-average intelligence, yet people still fail to take advantage of it.
The Start screen is irrelevant to me, aside from its segregation of search results (fixed in 8.1 anyhow). The demand for Start Menu replacements says an awful lot about the intelligence of the Windows userbase, more than about the quality of the OS in general. With that said, I will grant that the Windows devs may have screwed up by failing to take into consideration just how dumb their target market is (at least with regard to computers).
Educating them - on a grand scale, the way MS did for the Start button in Win95 - might work. It would be interesting to see. The MS of today seems completely incapable of effective marketing and communication compared to the Microsoft of yesteryear, though.
In my opinion, Windows 8 is a great system for what is under the hood. The system and startup is dramatically feature and has much more safety features built in. The fact that Microsoft built in Microsoft Security Essentials means that you no longer have to deal with anti-virus and firewall stuff and since it is built in, it doesnt slow down your system anymore is a bonus. Also, the new backup features, performance tools and task manager are greatly improves and much better then recent versions.
As for the metro (or "modern") garbage, If you are using your PC as umm.. a PC it is really un-needed and unnecesary but is easy to get rid of using third party apps to get you back to the Windows 7 style desktop. I currently use Startisback which also makes other desktop changes to get rid of metro completely. If you want apps, installed Google Chrome and use Google's new desktop apps. This would also make it much easier for Android users as everything pretty much syncs with the phone.
One small other "rant" make sure you use a uxtheme patcher and a visual style... whose idea at Microsoft was it to use black text in the window border but white text on the taskbar?
In my opinion that gives me the best of all worlds.
SharpnShiny said:
Are you serious?
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Actually I am. I find the idea of the start button to just be obsolete and the new system to be FASTER for power users who can be bothered to get their heads out of their asses and adapt to change.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Actually I am. I find the idea of the start button to just be obsolete and the new system to be FASTER for power users who can be bothered to get their heads out of their asses and adapt to change.
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Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete
hakcenter said:
Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete
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don't need the mouse to navigate windows 8 itself. See that lovely windows logo key, press it, takes you straight to the start screen where you can start typing. Want to get to the settings charm to shut down the pc, windows key + I, if you want you can even navigate that menu with the arrow keys but alternatively the icons are large so easy to hit with a nice imprecise high speed mouse movement. Windows key + X, opens a menu with things like control panel and device manager etc, in this list each item has a single character somewhere within the item name underscored, press thus character and it selects that menu option, Win + X and then C opens the command prompt for example. Very little mouse use is required, can do most things for windows 8 itself (except apps and desktop programs) with just a keyboard.
tp2215 said:
...
One small other "rant" make sure you use a uxtheme patcher and a visual style... whose idea at Microsoft was it to use black text in the window border but white text on the taskbar?
In my opinion that gives me the best of all worlds.
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Could you recommend a uxtheme? You use it to restore some Windows 7 font/UI right? Do you restore glass/Aero? I've been using Start8 which I like a lot, but for the other features they really want you to pay at several gates...in the end, making Win8 look a bit more like Win 7 costs a small fortune with them.
edit - I just spotted the popular early mod of aero in 8 has come out of beta and is still free: http://glass8.berlios.de/
This update is really interesting...it's Aero Glass within a Win 8 framework...it's a curious UI mix.
SharpnShiny said:
Could you recommend a uxtheme? You use it to restore some Windows 7 font/UI right? Do you restore glass/Aero? I've been using Start8 which I like a lot, but for the other features they really want you to pay at several gates...in the end, making Win8 look a bit more like Win 7 costs a small fortune with them.
edit - I just spotted the popular early mod of aero in 8 has come out of beta and is still free: http://glass8.berlios.de/
This update is really interesting...it's Aero Glass within a Win 8 framework...it's a curious UI mix. *pets cat and ponders*
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For some great uxtheme just search around deviantart here is a good place to start http://www.deviantart.com/customization/skins/. There are lots of them scattered around that, if anything, will restore the look back to Windows 7. Most of them have versions that will also tie right into the aero mod that you mentioned. One word of advice though from expereince, if the pc wants to update, switch back to default style before restarting. Microsoft released several updates that seem to "softbrick' your pc if the patch is installed. It will just boot with a black screen and the only way to repair would be to refresh or system restore.
hakcenter said:
Yes because clicking then moving your hands to the keyboard then typing is so much better than click click and click.
Saves movement, saves time but I guess it's just obsolete
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Just for the record, the keyboard is always faster than the mouse.
mcosmin222 said:
Just for the record, the keyboard is always faster than the mouse.
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Not when you count time from shifting your hands from the mouse to the keyboard.
Like browsing the web, then you wanted to open up Photoshop well now your up crap Creek cause you can't just have a simple shortcut on the ready.
Anyone defending the missing power user feature of having a central location for common tasks is just sailing their boat to no where. Especially when you look at the fact the guy that pressed for 8 was fired... Yawn.
Watch the next windows brings it back then all you crazy dudes won't find a single utility to remove the menu cause it's just stupidity at it's finest.
Good day to everyone who has a disk image left WIMBoot for Asus Transformer Book T100TA who has please give it to me
The Transformer book t100ta is brilliant on windows 10 pro x86 btw,
(The T100TA needs to be charged over 19 or 20% i think before you do this but definately charged above)
Before you follow this advice I recommend heading to the Asus website for the drivers and bios updates as there is a bios update to make it compatible with windows 10. To update the bios with the t100TA you have to use the tool built into the bios settings which you should be able to access either via installing windows 10 first as a workaround and holding shift down from the windows login page and use the power options on the bottom right to restart whilst holding shift down. or i forget which button to bash when you switch it on lol.
After the bios update re-do the windows install and wipe partitions etc.
After you install it let it run the updates and install the optional device drivers except the sound ones I had issue with the windows update version and had to uninstall them and use the asus site windows 8.1 version. You'll also notice that there will be a driver that can not be found which is the bluetooth driver but i'll attach the drivers i used which will cover everything missed or needed (all from the asus website by the way switching between the windows 10 pull down menu and 8.1).
As for activation am sure your resourcefull to figure it out (CMD activation) original windows downloaded iso.
after you have installed windows I recommend running ChrisTitusTech (youtube) windows debloat script from his github page along with the ultimate windows tools to really strip windows down to a minimum which helps with the 2gig ram and processor usage reduction a lot and remember to set the updates to security only so its not downloading all windows junk aswell.
The script i forget which one will uninstall winget for installing packages but re-starting one of them will reinstall it again also choose custom debloat and read through what you do not need like all the xbox stuff, etc just leave windows store unchecked and winget unchecked
so it keeps them.
(it will make sense more once you run the scripts and watched the tutorials on ChrisTitusTech page)
Also some personal preference settings I like is no sound on virual keyboard press, no backround processes runnung, dark mode all the time and start in tablet mode when not docked (if you leave this off you can easily switch using touch screen by clicking on the right notifications next to clock and expand the options at the bottom to select tablet mode plus all your bluetooth options are there aswell as others for hotspot etc (not checked the hotspot yet on mine but it appears to be working as it turns on etc)
And as the last resort if you haven't removed the recovery partition the original windows 8.1 files should be there but really recommend doing the above
Also this is the results in the screenshots below from my T100TA after doing the complete debloat tutorials. Boot up time is less than 10seconds, apps response on touchscreen and mouse usages is excellent, videos in brave browser all play at 1080 and some for some reason play well at 1440 lol
This reads like a lot of work to do but the reality is once you have prepared and learnt what to expect (i've covered the bumps i had so make life a bit smoother for you) the whole process from start to finish can be done in less than hour and you will be using the T100TA at its best by the end of it.
Hope you do this and not try to get it back on 8.1 its horrible lol and get back to me with the results or if you need other advice on the steps, would be good to see how the devices compare up against each other we might be able to improve the results better for both of us
good luck and have fun as i'm currently doing so typing this on mine lol.
As a last resort if you've not wiped your recovery partition you might be able to set the partition attributes to have a drive letter assigned using cmd command DISKPART and copy the wmi file from there to a usb and use the other machine to rufus create an install usb
see above forgotten to press reply i think lol