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Hi,
I rooted my N1 and installed a flashlight app (N1 Torch) that uses the phone's LED flash. It warns you that continuously using the flash might break it, though.
What has been your experience? Does "continuous use" mean "hours", "minutes" or just "more than the 0.5 seconds the flash is supposed to turn on when you make a photo"?
frandavid100 said:
Hi,
I rooted my N1 and installed a flashlight app (N1 Torch) that uses the phone's LED flash. It warns you that continuously using the flash might break it, though.
What has been your experience? Does "continuous use" mean "hours", "minutes" or just "more than the 0.5 seconds the flash is supposed to turn on when you make a photo"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that using it for a couple of minutes would be fine, the problem is that if it gets too hot it could damage the the phone especially the camera. I remember that I installed a similar program on my nokia n70 and several times happened that by accident i turned on the led while the phone was in my pocket, I only noticed that when i started to feel something burning in my pocket Now my n70's led and camera doesn't work anymore... so just be carefull not to turn on the led by accident
I had read that the LED flash was designed for quick bursts. If that is true than constantly running it could - at least - burn out the LED bulb. I doubt is it user replacable, so that is not a good thing.
I have hoped to use Torch too, but have decided its just not worth it. I will just use the lit up screen as a flashlight.
Yeah.. I'm thinking about uninstalling torch I get random clicking after I turn the app off
It's an LED.. by default LEDs are low-power, have low-heat emission and super long lifetimes. They also tolerate turning on/off repeatedly for extended periods of time.
I somehow doubt you could do any damage to the phone/LED.
Has anyone even heard of doing damage this way, or is this just speculation and ass-covering in case something goes wrong?
my old sony erricson w810i LED flash lasted for atleast an hour of continuous use with no ill effect.
LEDs don't get that bright either, not the ones you are thinking of. The LED in the nexus one is much brighter than "usual", and it's also much smaller.
High power LEDs (HPLED) can be driven at currents from hundreds of mA to more than an ampere, compared with the tens of mA for other LEDs. They produce up to over a thousand lumens. Since overheating is destructive, the HPLEDs must be mounted on a heat sink to allow for heat dissipation. If the heat from a HPLED is not removed, the device will burn out in seconds.
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Click to collapse
(bold for emphasis)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led#High_power_LEDs
Obviously the LED in the N1 is designed to deal with its heat under "normal usage" for a camera flash, and it probably can handle longer usages than the stock camera, but I wouldn't push it too far.
Edit:
If anyone wants to use some debug tools to find how many mA the phone pulls when the flash is on vs when its off, they could probably look up the usual heat generation for an LED of that size and see how 'safe' it is to run.
I just contacted the developer on google wave, waiting for his reply now. Please give me your address if you want to be added to the wave.
DarkLord7854 said:
It's an LED.. by default LEDs are low-power, have low-heat emission and super long lifetimes. They also tolerate turning on/off repeatedly for extended periods of time.
I somehow doubt you could do any damage to the phone/LED.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
High power LEDs do get hot (i have an LED flashlight that gets quite hot after prolonged useage. it chews up batteries as well) and, ill bet that continued useage at high output can damage it.. and the camera... theres a reason that its not enabled stock
A way around heat and power is the cycle the LED at 30-60hz. I am unsure if the developer of N1 Torch could make it happen with software alone though.
Not sure if this helps but I have shot several videos and even changed a flat tire with my BB Storm LED. Besides draining battery, the only thing I worried about was space on mr MicoSd because I could only leave it on continuously in video mode.
I used mine this morning for about 5 mins and no problems.
Still works and so does the camera.
Wait, so the Nexus One uses the High Power LED, not a regular LED?
NexusDro said:
Wait, so the Nexus One uses the High Power LED, not a regular LED?
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Click to collapse
no he was just using that quote to prove that some leds do produce heat. judging by the brightness i would say its relatively high power, and because htc might not have mounted the led on a heatsink big enough to keep it cool after prolonged use because they designed it for a camera flash, not a flashlight. so better safe than sorry.
britoso said:
my old sony erricson w810i LED flash lasted for atleast an hour of continuous use with no ill effect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya! I had a K750 (flashed with the W800i firmware) that had as one of it's features, used the flash as a torch and a SOS beacon.
SonyEricsson's XPERIA X1 (Win Mo device, HTC manufactured) has an app for the flash too. The app has two options.
First (dimmer) is mostly OK (not recommended for hours of use either).
Second (brighter) caused a meltdown of the LED's plastic holder if used for long enough. The holder melted over the vibrator motor, thus shutting it stiff and ruining it.
aad4321 said:
exactly. led's dont get hot.... someone should email the developer of the app. i know he has done some extensive testing. post what you get
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Click to collapse
Folks should stick to things they know. There are many VERY high power LEDs, such as those used as a flash. Depending on the application they end design may be to be used in short bursts because they create so much heat. LEDs waste LESS power through heat dispersion than a conventional lamp, but they do indeed create heat. I've seen LEDs that need a heatsink 10x their size to keep them cool. In the interest of size I would be willing to bet there is not enough heatsink on the LED flash to be able to use it for extended periods of time without burning it out.
comparing light sources from different phones as others have done here is silly. Unless you are positive that they are the same LEDs and that they have proper cooling behind them, then don't compare.
Source - Me. almost 20 years in the semiconductor design and test industry
Seconded. It's possible the LED is being driven at peak currents, or beyond too, which is fine for a short burst but not for prolonged use.
I'm the developer of N1 Torch, and was pointed towards this thread. So I can offer some answers and insight...
Standard brightness is supported 'naturally' by the LED kernel driver. I tell it to come on, and it comes on until I give it a command to turn off.
High brightness is only enabled by the kernel for ~0.5 seconds before the kernel turns it off automatically. I simply send the command repeatedly to keep it on.
I had the app tested on a sacrificial N1, and the following were the results:
- On standard brightness mode, the torch ran for over 1/2hr continuously with no problems or heat issues detected.
- On high brightness mode, the torch was noticeably warm after 1/2hr, and there was a bit of a 'heat' smell coming from it. After a further 18 minutes (total 48 minutes) the LED started flickering of its own accord and was hot. After cooling, it resumed working normally (no idea how the lifetime was affected).
You can use your own judgement based on these results (and of course, YMMV due to manufacturing differences). I would be happy to say that standard brightness is fine for extended use (1/2hr at least), but try to limit high brightness to a few minutes at a time.
Hey everybody!
There's just one thing with this phone, wich annoys me a bit.
If Automatic Brightness is enabled, the display needs 7 seconds to adjust to new lighting conditions. Imo thats far too long, cause if you go outside in these days with the screen enabled you first have to wait till you can continue what you've done. It tooks the same time, if you unlock the phone till the s2 (or the light-sensor) gets aware of the environment.
Is this normal?
What's the reaction time of your s2? (test with a lamp by holding the phone down to it)
edit: it makes no difference if I en- or disable auto adjust screen power.
Thanks alot for your replys!
FW is KE7.
Greetings
Flo
xflowy said:
Hey everybody!
There's just one thing with this phone, wich annoys me a bit.
If Automatic Brightness is enabled, the display needs 7 seconds to adjust to new lighting conditions. Imo thats far too long, cause if you go outside in these days with the screen enabled you first have to wait till you can continue what you've done. It tooks the same time, if you unlock the phone till the s2 (or the light-sensor) gets aware of the environment.
Is this normal?
What's the reaction time of your s2? (test with a lamp by holding the phone down to it)
Thanks alot for your replys!
Greetings
Flo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? mine is much much quicker almost instantaneous. How do i know? because every time i play plants vs zombie, screen goes darker, lighter, darker, lighter depending on where my left hand is
you have the ke2 i guess!? so when you face it to a lamp it reacts quick?
i use ke7. i think it has something to do with that..
could some with ke7 post their time
xflowy said:
you have the ke2 i guess!? so when you face it to a lamp it reacts quick?
i use ke7. i think it has something to do with that..
could some with ke7 post their time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe
I had KE7 for a brief period but returned to KE2 after experiencing soft reboot issue with the music player. Also KE2 and older had abrupt change in brightness and they may have tuned it down a bit
is this fw-related? could some ke7-users post their time.
come on..about 150 views and just one user is answering?
3-6sec on KE7, kinda slow comproed to i9000 but probably they will fix in some next updates or devs from XDA will do kernel ala Speedmod wich manage this much better then stock one
i flashed back to ke2 just to test it. and my guess was right. it's fw-related. with ke7 they increased the reaction time. ke2 has sth about 1-3 sec.
could someone find a tweak to reduce the time on ke7?
If you really want to tweak it try JuiceDefender
One of the newest features is to control the light sensor, quite handy! I usually feel that the brightness is too high with android...
I have this same problem. My one needs 7sec to brighting up and darkening down.
The best test is when bright outside cover the light sensor with your finger and count how much time it needs to make the screen darker.
Im on KF2. But there was one rom i think it was KE4 i had no delays, sorry i had but only 2, 3 sec. All other roms needs 7 sec to make the screen lighter and darker
Its not 7 seconds for me but still it takes around 3-4 seconds. Well its not great but not bad either, this will get better and better with firmware upgrades.
Regards.
Sent from GT-I9100
Hi folks,
Just to see how the use of the phone is like here, what's the longest you've ever kept the display on continuously and what app/game were you running?
Cheers.
For me it's got to be close to 10 - 12 hours. I may have turned it off a couple of times in that period to use the restroom or eat, but you can assume it's almost constantly on.
I was using the studydroid app, and then intermittently surfing the web.
played a very slow round of golf (behind 3 80-yr olds) which lasted over 6 hours.
---------------------------
Yeah it's a Galaxy Note, are you jealous?
DPMAce said:
For me it's got to be close to 10 - 12 hours. I may have turned it off a couple of times in that period to use the restroom or eat, but you can assume it's almost constantly on.
I was using the studydroid app, and then intermittently surfing the web.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hot damn, was it plugged into a charger or something? Longest I've been able to touch is 4 hours of screen time before the battery is drained. But then again, I'm also doing it whilst playing a game.
deymayor said:
played a very slow round of golf (behind 3 80-yr olds) which lasted over 6 hours.
---------------------------
Yeah it's a Galaxy Note, are you jealous?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lawl, I'm surprised that the battery lasted that long.
Just watched "The Girl with a Dragon Tattoo" on my flight from LAX > NYC... was planning on watching a second/third movie but was too afraid of killing my bat and not being able to access hopstop when we arrived =/ That sure was not the case! I had over 70% battery left even after using it to surf/listen to music at the airport before our flight...
Love this battery! Using stock LC1
I have average 3 and half hours of display time in regular day. Using note from 12h-16h on full battery to about 10%.
Im happy with it but i see other people getting better results... Hmmm
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
DPMAce said:
For me it's got to be close to 10 - 12 hours. I may have turned it off a couple of times in that period to use the restroom or eat, but you can assume it's almost constantly on.
I was using the studydroid app, and then intermittently surfing the web.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
will try it
My maximum was between 3 to4 hours screen on, playing around with phone or surfing web, couldn't get it past that without battery going under 10%.
How others managed to get 6 or 10 hours screen on time ! ? ? Or u guys meant the whole battery uptime?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
About 34 hours (plugged to ac adaptor). For online webcast. It has not touched for about ~34 hours. Standing on a shelf with a running Safari browser (stock browser) at flash online translation of video conference. Wifi on, screen always on with SwitchPro widget.
6-7 hours,while playing/observing chess on ICC App. the setting was to stay the screen on which comes as an option in the application itself,it was on battery but didnt notice how much was left after the session as it was already past five in the morning
Couldnt get to sleep,since wife was in the mood of high toned snoaring,
Have any of you experienced the burnt in yet? Look carefully!
34 hours, that's a record so far for continuous use!
If I'm using the stock battery, I can only get about 7 - 10hours max. But since I use the hyperion extended battery, I can usually get over 14 hours. Hyperion battery last longer than I can lol. Keep in mind studydroid doesn't drain nearly as much battery as watching a movie or playing a game.
I would make sure you guys are using launchers that hide the notification bar or apps that have the option to hide the notification bar. Otherwise you will have terrible burn out on the top of the screen.
Also try to rotate the phone from right to left when viewing in landscape as that will help prevent burn out.
If you don't think your amoled screen can burn out do an LCD test and take a look at the blue screen test....Then you'll see why you should not leave static images on the screen for long periods of time.
Samsung Screen Test:
type this into the phone dialer and press on the blue and green.
*#*#0*#*#*
The burn in is not permanent. Due to the volatile nature of AMOLED in terms of obtaining burn-ins, I'm fairly certain you can download clips to flush and reduce the burn-in's persistence.
After a while, just use the damn phone and enjoy it. Stop worrying.
inurb said:
I would make sure you guys are using launchers that hide the notification bar or apps that have the option to hide the notification bar. Otherwise you will have terrible burn out on the top of the screen.
Also try to rotate the phone from right to left when viewing in landscape as that will help prevent burn out.
If you don't think your amoled screen can burn out do an LCD test and take a look at the blue screen test....Then you'll see why you should not leave static images on the screen for long periods of time.
Samsung Screen Test:
type this into the phone dialer and press on the blue and green.
*#*#0*#*#*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i get like 3 hrs max just browsing the net. wtf!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
werks said:
i get like 3 hrs max just browsing the net. wtf!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Browsing the internet is taxing on the cpu, it changes frequency constantly etc. When you are watching for example a movie, the cpu stays at a constant, lowest possible frequency and consumes less power. Thats why tests on engadget usually show 6-8 hours of screen on time.
PoisonWolf said:
The burn in is not permanent. Due to the volatile nature of AMOLED in terms of obtaining burn-ins, I'm fairly certain you can download clips to flush and reduce the burn-in's persistence.
After a while, just use the damn phone and enjoy it. Stop worrying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The burn out of the amoled pixels is permanent. They slowly fade until you can clearly see ghosting of the static image on top of an active screen. This has happened with my galaxy s and sII. So to prevent pixel wear avoid static images on amoled screens.
inurb said:
The burn out of the amoled pixels is permanent. They slowly fade until you can clearly see ghosting of the static image on top of an active screen. This has happened with my galaxy s and sII. So to prevent pixel wear avoid static images on amoled screens.
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Click to collapse
What launcher would you recommend besides the default TW to get rid of the notification bar then?
PoisonWolf said:
What launcher would you recommend besides the default TW to get rid of the notification bar then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use launcher pro. I know adw launcher also allows you hide the notification bar on the home screens.
I just found this out yesterday but the Note 2 has a separate controller for gathering sensor data.
In short, unlike previously where the CPU had to wake up to gather data, a dedicated low power processor takes care of this!
It works for the accelerometer, magnetosensor, and orientation sensors for sure.
It may also work for the other ones.
Source: Samsung SGS2 Note Development Engineer i talked to yesterday at Samsung's Tech Fair
Interesting. I wonder if that's partly why it gets such fantastic battery life?
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
Instead of waking up the whole phone it uses a low-power unit for sensors?
It sounds plausible.
Like when you move your hand above the front sensors when the phone's locked, and half of the screen lights up for a few seconds.
Handwritten from my GT-N 7100
how about the wifi and bluetooth? if i turn on the wifi and bluetooth all the time, will i get less battery drain than other device?
Olaeli said:
Instead of waking up the whole phone it uses a low-power unit for sensors?
It sounds plausible.
Like when you move your hand above the front sensors when the phone's locked, and half of the screen lights up for a few seconds.
Handwritten from my GT-N 7100
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Click to collapse
yes that is exactly one of the features it enables without destroying battery life
dseo80 said:
yes that is exactly one of the features it enables without destroying battery life
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Click to collapse
And I guess, the Smart Stay, which checks on you every now and then when looking at the screen.
Olaeli said:
And I guess, the Smart Stay, which checks on you every now and then when looking at the screen.
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Click to collapse
Doesn't Smart Stay use the front-facing camera? I understand that the camera isn't a sensor, as opposed to the proximity and light sensors beside it (correct me if I'm wrong...)
MarionCast said:
Doesn't Smart Stay use the front-facing camera? I understand that the camera isn't a sensor, as opposed to the proximity and light sensors beside it (correct me if I'm wrong...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Smart Stay pushes the CPU freq to 1600 (aka max freq) every time it has to check.
I don't use smart stay.I prefer a longer battery life.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
DanDroidian said:
I don't use smart stay.I prefer a longer battery life.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u never idle til the timeout, smart stay wouldnt activate and no battery drain
emprize said:
if u never idle til the timeout, smart stay wouldnt activate and no battery drain
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Click to collapse
Once it activates, does it continue to check at the regular intervals you have set?
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
DanDroidian said:
Once it activates, does it continue to check at the regular intervals you have set?
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
afaik it only check when u idle til timeout, so if u keep interact, it should be no extra battery drain
never knew this, great find
It makes sense. That's how it keeps the accelerometer on to let you know when you a missed call or message. And also led notifications hehe. Makes sense to me! And I'm glad they did it this way.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
emprize said:
afaik it only check when u idle til timeout, so if u keep interact, it should be no extra battery drain
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It also shows a little eye symbol in the status bar when it does it. Just before the screen dims it checks to see if someone it looking at it then again just before the screen turns off.
DanDroidian said:
I don't use smart stay.I prefer a longer battery life.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
I have smart stay turned on and i don't notice any real difference in battery life.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
Chrissssssss said:
It also shows a little eye symbol in the status bar when it does it. Just before the screen dims it checks to see if someone it looking at it then again just before the screen turns off.
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Click to collapse
busab said:
I have smart stay turned on and i don't notice any real difference in battery life.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Thanks to everyone for that!
Explained well! And I'll definitely use it from now on! It seems it might possibly use less battery to use this feature than having to tough the screen sometimes to stop it from turning off, and if you're not looking at it, it will just turn off like it normally would.
Basically, I have my timeout set to 1 minute.
Normally, I have to scroll up or down when I see the screen get dim moments before turning off. That's annoying, and sometimes probably spend more time touching the screen and messing something up when trying to do that.
With Smart Stay, if I'm looking at the screen, it checks for a split second (and you see the little "eye" symbol pop up) and it never dims out out either. That is really nice, and I don't have to keep messing with the screen to make sure it doesn't time out, which probably saves battery too. It continues to check for a split second every 1 minute.
If I'm not looking, it simply turns off.
Will definitely be using it from now on!
I also tried the feature where the red glowing sensor stays on ALL THE TIME WHEN THE SCREEN IS OFF and you can wave your hand over it to see missed calls, song playing, status bar, etc...
I'm gonna pass on this last feature. Not very helpful, and that must drain your battery somewhat faster, as you can even see the red glowing sensor on all the time when the screen is off. No thank you.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
smart stay i suppose only uses the ffc when your phone is about to sleep. if you set it to 1 min, it'll check every min, 5 min, every 5 min. i don't think it'll use much battery.
the only problem i have with smart stay is that even when i lay it down on my talbe in front of me while browsing on my pc, it wouldnt' sleep. i need to place it away from my face so the ffc can't see my eyes.
For a few years now, there has been another core or companion core in smart phones that handles minimal situations. It is a low power core that does not require the resources of the main processing unit. Tegra calls it “4+1” technology which means there are 4 cores running at the same speed and a slower fifth core that can handle most of what you’d be doing on your device. Here is their comments:
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/02/technology-formerly-known-as-vsmp-gets-a-new-stage-name-4-plus-1-2/
VSMP has been around for years and Samsung has used it in their system architecture. Back when one of the big things was increasing processing power one of the big problems was dealing with the low power core.
It just doesn't make sense to use power when you don't need it. Its like the V8 engines which drop to 4 cylinders at the traffic light to reduce gas consumption.
Sebring5 said:
For a few years now, there has been another core or companion core in smart phones that handles minimal situations. It is a low power core that does not require the resources of the main processing unit. Tegra calls it “4+1” technology which means there are 4 cores running at the same speed and a slower fifth core that can handle most of what you’d be doing on your device. Here is their comments:
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/02/technology-formerly-known-as-vsmp-gets-a-new-stage-name-4-plus-1-2/
VSMP has been around for years and Samsung has used it in their system architecture. Back when one of the big things was increasing processing power one of the big problems was dealing with the low power core.
It just doesn't make sense to use power when you don't need it. Its like the V8 engines which drop to 4 cylinders at the traffic light to reduce gas consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there is a difference here as the GS3 does NOT have this feature, you can test this by turning "smart rotation" off then testing the autorotation speed of both phones - which is how it was demonstrated to me. The Note 2 is noticably quicker.
I guess what im saying as in the OP , it is not part of the exynos SoC at all. The microprocessor is a seperate package on the PCB
It may help improve the situation, I noticed marked improvement in the length of videos that I can record if I enabled Extended Usage as folllows:
Power Management -> Stamina Mode -> [Check] Extended Usage
Mention how long you can record without this setting and with it.
Also mention ambient temperature when you do the recording in both cases.
One Twelve said:
Mention how long you can record without this setting and with it.
Also mention ambient temperature when you do the recording in both cases.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ambient temp: 29 C
BEFORE
Recording Video : less than 20 seconds...
AFTER
Over 2 minutes so far, no shutdowns yet...
Massive improvement...
I actually was recording my baby doing tricks, but initially was not able to do so... cause by the time I click on the red button to record, it already has over heated....
Presumably you are talking about 4k.
20 seconds at 29 degrees is rather short, i managed 2:30 in a non air conditioned shop before it put up that message, there was no active wifi or cell connection when doing this test as there was no sim card in it.
will try your setting later and report back how much difference it makes. Some body else also mentioned that this setting worked as well.
I think the camera overheating issue is not really related to the camera sensor, but to the processor overheating.
I am stating this based my experience with video recording using DSLRs,
One Twelve said:
Presumably you are talking about 4k.
20 seconds at 29 degrees is rather short, i managed 2:30 in a non air conditioned shop before it put up that message, there was no active wifi or cell connection when doing this test as there was no sim card in it.
will try your setting later and report back how much difference it makes. Some body else also mentioned that this setting worked as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is very short. I was so annoyed that I flashed another firmware only to find out that it had the same problems. I was not even taking 4k videos! Basically when you factory reset the phone, whatever settings that is there was the one I used.
However, last week, when I got my phone I could remember taking videos that were relatively long (3 minutes or so)... Oh well now I have setup the phone again... I am now on that .438 singtel firmwware.
Your phone is faulty
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Free mobile app
Well it's working fine now...
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icedeocampo said:
Well it's working fine now...
Sent from my Telpad QS using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
It's very hard to do any sort of proper testing and come to any conclusions.
I can usually take loads of photos and (1080p video) in close succession, but just last week, when it was quite sunny - I managed just a few before the error and being told the camera would close to cool down. Started the camera again, it shut down almost immediately. And after that, I got an error that stopped the camera loading at all.
Now that's not normal. It really wasn't THAT hot either, but the CPU was running at 60 degrees! Goodness knows why, but ultimately I was unable to take photos until I'd turned the phone off completely to let it cool (I was out, so didn't have any cold water to dip it in).
After leaving it a while, it was okay for as long as I needed to take some more pictures.
It's ****** annoying as we're about to have one of the hottest weeks of the year so far in the UK, and here it's quite humid and sticky. Thus, I fully expect that I'm going to have loads of problems. And Sony will give us the software fix they've now acknowledged is coming just in time for winter.
I agree it's funding annoying
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