Database Users

Google: No Factory Image Or Proprietary Binary Hosting For Google Play Edition One

There's been a lot of speculation about just how Nexus-like the Galaxy S4 and HTC One Google Play edition phones will be, particularly from a technical / software update standpoint. Now, we have some relatively concrete information that sheds light on these issues.
First and foremost, Google will not directly handle software updates for Google Play edition devices. This has been reported as true, false, and generally disputed quite a lot in the lead-up to the launch. We know for a fact now (thanks to Anandtech) that while Google will supply the necessary Android builds to OEMs, the OEMs will be responsible for maintenance of kernels and all the various drivers and firmware pieces necessary for their specific device. The result is that Google gives the OEMs the Android build, and it's then up to the OEMs to make that build work on their Google Play edition device and perform the act of actually updating the phone. Google has issued an official statement that works very hard to not expressly deny that they won't be handling the updates (Droid-life):
What's this mean for you? It means that at the end of the day, the onus to update these phones will still be on Samsung and HTC. They will be able to circumvent the carrier certification runaround, and will in theory have much less work to do in maintaining these devices, but the responsibility still falls to them, not Google. This could mean any number of things. It could mean these phones will get updates within days of their Nexus counterparts. But more likely weeks, and possibly even months depending how much attention these phones are actually given by HTC and Samsung. I wouldn't say months is what we should expect, but I'm also saying such a gap is entirely within the realm of possibility. You have to remember, these phones will sell in miniscule quantities compared to their skinned brethren, and that means they aren't as high up on the value chain for software update attention. While it's certainly worth being optimistic about the update process, there's still plenty of reason to temper those expectations until we see these devices receive their first major Android release update.
he second thing we've learned is that Google will not host factory OS images for Google Play edition devices (see JBQ's post on this topic here). This will be up to Samsung and HTC, if they choose to do so. Google will also not be hosting any proprietary binaries (essentially, drivers) for these phones (again, see JBQ). Release of any binaries is, once again, up to Samsung and HTC. Taken together, all this information - as you may already have guessed long ago - means there is very little chance we'll ever see these phones supported in AOSP. It's not impossible, but it is extremely unlikely.
So there you have it: that's basically the nuts and bolts of what doesn't make the Google Play edition HTC One and Galaxy S4 Nexuses. Does this put a damper on the situation, or is it immaterial? Let us know in the comments.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/0...play-edition-one-or-s4-oems-will-handle-otas/
welp this sucks !

I am not flashing this until first update comes out to see how fast they actually are, ridiculous decision.

H-Streety said:
I am not flashing this until first update comes out to see how fast they actually are, ridiculous decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since we will probably be on 4.2.2 for a while you're going to be waiting.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Possibly, but I am not losing my IR blaster and camera app for half-supported stock Android. If HTC will push out the update within a week or two after it comes out for Nexus devices, then I will definitely flash it, if not then I don't see the point of it. I would rather do S-OFF + Super Cid and still enjoy all these things than losing too many good things for basically just stock Android.

Nexus Experience Device not Nexus Device

That's really unfortunate.
Pretty ridiculous actually.
-Sent from Marino's One-

Did you really expect more? Google never said they would be Nexus devices or supported by AOSP. They are Nexus "Experience" devices... hence they offer the same feel without being the same.
Sorry to burst your bubble.... that said I think there will be dedication on the part of HTC and Samsung to get updates.. there isn't any excuse and you know if the device is on Google Play then el'Goog will be pressuring them to not delay
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD

It states in Google play that both devices will get automatic updates of the latest android version.
I believe that more that others guessing about it.
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium

donharden2002 said:
It states in Google play that both devices will get automatic updates of the latest android version.
I believe that more that others guessing about it.
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zero timeline given. It will get it. The second it's released? No. A month after? Maybe.
Yep, OP...sure this is stock AOSP, but if anyone thinks the S4 and One will be updated the instant the Nexus line is, they are smoking some serious ****.
Samsung and HTC still have a role in this, ala Verizon (CDMA) Galaxy Nexus. It will slow things down. It's on HTC and Samsung to instantly update their proprietary apps to play well with AOSP. We've all seen that movie before, now have we?
Sigh. Can of worms. I called it. Once you integrate manufacturer specific features into AOSP (Beats, Zoe, etc) it WILL slow down the instant (expected) release of AOSP to "OMG PURE GOOGLE) phones. Psst: they aren't Nexi.
Just deal with it. I cringe for the blasting posts from those who got the One/S4 AOSP editions once the newest Android OS is pushed out...to the Nexus line first.
I see it now:
"THE NEXUS 4 JUST GOT 5.0. WHERE IS MY KLP ON MY ONE/S4 GOOGLE!??? PETITION STARTED!!!!1111"
And so on. Grabs popcorn.
Edit: thought I'd paste in a quote I just read that summarizes this situation quite well:
I don't see the point of these devices anymore. You lose out on the few customization that OEMs provided that weren't useless (fully functional Beats, camera software, improved text messaging and browser apps, etc.) for a vanilla experience that is nearly indistinguishable from the OEM version running a custom launcher. And no guarantee of fast updates.
You'd have to be a dummy to buy these phones from the Play store.
Thankfully I have an unlocked T-Mobile One. I'll just use it or flash whatever, whenever. Paid $450 for it and am very happy with my gamble.

So the question still remains, could someone possibly take whatever HTC releases for the GE version and put that on a carrier locked or Dev edition phone? Sorry for my lack of understanding here, but I'm just trying to figure out which phone to buy at this point.

donharden2002 said:
It states in Google play that both devices will get automatic updates of the latest android version. I believe that more that others guessing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Automatic = sent directly to the phone.
Updates = it'll be updated.
Latest Android version = it'll get newer versions of Android.
The key words that are missing are "when" and “from whom.” I guess people can read in to that statement what they want but nothing in it makes what OP posted untrue. With so many phones orphaned on old versions of Android that statement could be as benign as "your phone will keep up with Android releases."

BarryH_GEG said:
Automatic = sent directly to the phone.
Updates = it'll be updated.
Latest Android version = it'll get newer versions of Android.
The key words that are missing are "when" and “from whom.” I guess people can read in to that statement what they want but nothing in it makes what OP posted untrue. With so many phones orphaned on old versions of Android that statement could be as benign as "your phone will keep up with Android releases."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google is the only one who can update aosp devices..nobody else

http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/0...play-edition-one-or-s4-oems-will-handle-otas/

david279 said:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/0...play-edition-one-or-s4-oems-will-handle-otas/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are a thick one aren't you lol

hello00 said:
google is the only one who can update aosp devices..nobody else
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The first post says it isn't an AOSP device, Google isn't managing the proprietary drivers, they aren't posting the s/w images, and they aren't responsible for pushing out updates. So your statement is true; for Nexus devices. "Play Edition's" aren't Nexus devices.
The fact that it doesn't say the below which Google says about their devices probably means what OP posted is true.

M
Argenist said:
So the question still remains, could someone possibly take whatever HTC releases for the GE version and put that on a carrier locked or Dev edition phone? Sorry for my lack of understanding here, but I'm just trying to figure out which phone to buy at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can flash whatever you want. Nothing new here.
I say get the phone with the most bands for resale and every day use. Hint. It isn't the Google or Dev one.
Unlock it for $7 and never look back.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

ericshmerick said:
You can flash whatever you want. Nothing new here.
I say get the phone with the most bands. Hint. It isn't the Google or Dev one.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood, but would matter then to get the GE version over the Dev?

Argenist said:
Understood, but would matter then to get the GE version over the Dev?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't ship until July 9 so no one knows.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

hello00 said:
google is the only one who can update aosp devices..nobody else
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true..
This situation has been done before. The OG Droid (Sholes) was not a Nexus but ran vanilla software. Updates came but abit later. They came from Motorola.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

VZW 4.4.1: When do you think we'll see it?

So as the interwebz suggest, 4.4.1 is right around the corner for the Nexus 5/GPE devices. Considering the fact that the VZW variant of the Moto X was on the bleeding edge of the Kit Kat OTA and got it before even the Nexus 4, do you think this is a trend that will continue? I'm interested to see what bug fixes there are and if the promised camera improvements will be aimed specifically at the Nexus 5, or perhaps broader improvements to the software. What do you guys think?

I don't think 4.4.1 will aim other devices. It will include fixes for Nexus 5 only IMO.

I'm worried about the next update. What if we can't get root?

natezire71 said:
I'm worried about the next update. What if we can't get root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you buy a developer's edition.

natezire71 said:
I'm worried about the next update. What if we can't get root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one big reason I went for the Dev Edition... I'm too much of a tinkerer to fret over such unknowns. I mean it always comes eventually, but with Dev Editions you get instant gratification! Just need to flash stock recovery, accept the OTA, reflash custom recovery, re-root. BAM, done.

natezire71 said:
I'm worried about the next update. What if we can't get root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been using an Android phone since 2.1.
By my quick count on Wikipedia, there have been 27 versions (including minor updates) of Android since 2.1.
I'm not aware of any Android version that was discovered to be unrootable.
I suspect you don't have to be too worried...

icon123 said:
Then you buy a developer's edition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy me one? I don't have that kind of money.
Furthermore, I have a Motomaker custom. I don't want to lose that.

kbluhm said:
This one reason I went for the Dev Edition... I'm too much of a tinkerer to fret over such unknowns. I mean it always comes eventually, but with Dev Editions you get instant gratification!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beat you by about 5 sec. But really, that's what this game has come to. If you want easy root and possibly romming, then dev editions are going to be the only way to go. Right now, I think moto is making that easier for us to do.

binary visions said:
I've been using an Android phone since 2.1.
By my quick count on Wikipedia, there have been 27 versions (including minor updates) of Android since 2.1.
I'm not aware of any Android version that was discovered to be unrootable.
I suspect you don't have to be too worried...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suspect you need to do more reading. Check up on what security features KitKat brought to our MotoXs.
Edit: I'm not so much worried about If you can root it, I'm worried about having it published. Jcase only rooted 4.4 because we were able to downgrade the bootloader. If that wasn't possible, I still don't think there would be root for the MotoX (non-dev).

natezire71 said:
Buy me one? I don't have that kind of money.
Furthermore, I have a Motomaker custom. I don't want to lose that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You simply sell your subsidized phone and buy a dev edition. Can't help you about the moto maker though.

natezire71 said:
I suspect you need to do more reading. Check up on what security features KitKat brought to our MotoXs.
Edit: I'm not so much worried about If you can root it, I'm worried about having it published. Jcase only rooted 4.4 because we were able to downgrade the bootloader. If that wasn't possible, I still don't think there would be root for the MotoX (non-dev).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suspect I've read plenty about KitKat. I know about the security features.
Jcase rooted 4.4 using the downgrade because an existing vulnerability was available. He explicitly stated that there was another vulnerability available and he just wasn't going to develop for it/reveal it. Vulnerabilities are always discovered.
What, you think Apple hasn't been trying to quash rooting for years now?
I'm just saying, I've been in IT for a long time. Exploits are discovered, workarounds are created. Root access is gained and life moves on.

binary visions said:
I suspect I've read plenty about KitKat. I know about the security features.
Jcase rooted 4.4 using the downgrade because an existing vulnerability was available. He explicitly stated that there was another vulnerability available and he just wasn't going to develop for it/reveal it. Vulnerabilities are always discovered.
What, you think Apple hasn't been trying to quash rooting for years now?
I'm just saying, I've been in IT for a long time. Exploits are discovered, workarounds are created. Root access is gained and life moves on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, but what if it's never published? I'm not worried about the actual exploits. There will always be exploits. I'm only concerned with an awesome dev to publish it. Who else is working on the MotoX? So far, it seems like Hashcode and Jcase. If Jcase decides not to publish... Then what?

natezire71 said:
Of course, but what if it's never published? I'm not worried about the actual exploits. There will always be exploits. I'm only concerned with an awesome dev to publish it. Who else is working on the MotoX? So far, it seems like Hashcode and Jcase. If Jcase decides not to publish... Then what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there are never guarantees, of course... but given that virtually every version of Android on every phone attains root eventually, I'm just going to have some faith!

I think people may be putting too much faith in what devs can do based on what has been done.
4.4 has the potential to change things big time. dm-verity combined with a locked bootloader is going to be a beast to crack. Once a device ships from the factory with it enabled and a locked bootloader, I would not be expecting root on it anytime soon. Then you will have people asking why don't we just crack the key like they were when the GS3 came out. (answer: you will never ever crack the key. --Math)
As for using the idea that Apple has tried and never got it to stick, I'd say they haven't tried this hard.
Just as a sidenote, I don't think the SELinux and dm-verity additions in android are either bad or targeted at the modders out there. These are excellent steps in securing the OS, and shows that Google is serious about making devices trustworthy. The work they did on dm-verity is just great stuff. This is good for people who don't care about modifying their device and those who only buy devices with unlocked bootloaders, but not so good for people who have a locked bootloader, and are on either ATT or VZW, both of whom really don't want you to modify your device.
TL;DR - Buy a device with an unlocked bootloader, don't count on anything, past success is not indicative of future success.

I hope 4.4.1 brings an even better ART this time.

Seems like this update is pretty specific to the Nexus 5 as a camera fix. Not sure the Moto X will even see it.
Sent from my XT1056 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

phippsy84 said:
Seems like this update is pretty specific to the Nexus 5 as a camera fix. Not sure the Moto X will even see it.
Sent from my XT1056 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Won't really know until the 4.4.1 source is published. Could be a lot of other stuff on the back-end that was updated/fixed that wouldn't really show up in a major changelog.

Nexus 4 received the update today too so it isn't nexus 5 specific.

imnuts said:
Won't really know until the 4.4.1 source is published. Could be a lot of other stuff on the back-end that was updated/fixed that wouldn't really show up in a major changelog.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true
Sent from my XT1056 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Not only the N4 but the Nexus 7 LTE. SO... probably more going on than just camera

Are new phones updated?

Hi!
I'd like to purchase an xt907, and join your bandwagon. However, I'd like, of course, to be able to unlock the bootloader.
I noticed that many of the phones sold on ebay are already 182/183.46.15 or other updated firmwares.
What about "brand new" phones? Do they ever come updated, or is the phone out of the box generally 182/183.46.10?
thanks!

New XT907's come patched and can not be bootloader unlocked.
I suggest looking for a different phone. The XT907 isn't worth the trouble.
Sent from my XT1031

ATTACK said:
New XT907's come patched and can not be bootloader unlocked.
I suggest looking for a different phone. The XT907 isn't worth the trouble.
Sent from my XT1031
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! That's sad. Explains why I didn't find a single one with an old firmware.
Too late, though. I already got one. There are some on ebay with an unlocked bootloader. I hope this will work.
But there aren't many phones with these features:
amoled
small (though my definition of "small" keeps increasing... I'd still like a phone like the xperia ray! Currently, for example, the maxx and maxx HD are still "too big")
sd card
unlocked bootloader - with all the security threats these days this is a must!
active xda community.

One good reason not to take the Android 6.0 (M) OTA

Two Words: Root Access. It seems it may be harder to root Android M than we might have thought (Though we all expected this). So as a warning to those on 5.1 (whether you took the 5.1 OTA or waited for the 5.1 rooted img) and here is why:
http://www.xda-developers.com/a-look-at-marshmallow-root-verity-complications/
Given that a BL unlocked has not come out for the Droid Turbo on 4.4.4 or 5.1, this would possibly only make it harder to do so. I would suggest prolonging the OTA for as long as possible.
This is only a suggestion, however obviously you all are free to do as you please with your devices. Just wanted to give a fair warning. Though in this article it states that root might not be possible w/o BL unlock so moforoot might not even work because we can not modify our boot images.............yet (we hope). Again decision rest on your individual shoulders but I just thought, since Android M has been confirmed ( here ) for our devices, that we should at least be informed how this is going to affect our devices in the future (regarding root access and the probability of BL unlock mainly, of course). So it might not be wise to take the 6.0 update......at least not yet.
Let me know what you guys think.

We don't even have m yet....
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app

Yeah, we do. It's in my notifications now to update. Just wanna see what happens

Cjzi5i5 said:
Yeah, we do. It's in my notifications now to update. Just wanna see what happens
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not M. [emoji23]

Wynnded said:
That's not M. [emoji23]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol don't crush his dreams.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

It's my understanding that what you posted may not really be that relevant.
For example, we can't root 5.1 for the Turbo. Unless of course you were already rooted on 4.4.4. Maybe rooting 6.0 is easier/possible if you're already rooted on 5.1. I've seen this same thing on other devices I've owned. If you take an update too early you can lock yourself out while people running the lower version have more options.

Flowah said:
It's my understanding that what you posted may not really be that relevant.
For example, we can't root 5.1 for the Turbo. Unless of course you were already rooted on 4.4.4. Maybe rooting 6.0 is easier/possible if you're already rooted on 5.1. I've seen this same thing on other devices I've owned. If you take an update too early you can lock yourself out while people running the lower version have more options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It clearly states that to root 6.0 that changes have to be made to the boot image which turbo users 4.4.4 or otherwise can't do. You're taking offensive to a warning post, not one meant to say it's impossible (provided BL unlock becomes available for the Droid Turbo). This is all based on Motorola's confirmation of the Droid Turbo getting 6.0 and how it could affect our devices future ability to obtain root.

Cjzi5i5 said:
Yeah, we do. It's in my notifications now to update. Just wanna see what happens
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dont worry dude.. if we get lucky we will see M by next September.

I took the 5.1 update. I'm comfortable with the fact that I'll never get root. The moment 6.0 is available, I'll update that too... knowing full well that root will never happen. Don't tell folks not to update. That's your opinion. You want to keep root, that's up to you. For those of us that it is too late, we don't care. And we'll openly take that 6.0 update... if and when it comes.

irish_711 said:
I took the 5.1 update. I'm comfortable with the fact that I'll never get root. The moment 6.0 is available, I'll update that too... knowing full well that root will never happen. Don't tell folks not to update. That's your opinion. You want to keep root, that's up to you. For those of us that it is too late, we don't care. And we'll openly take that 6.0 update... if and when it comes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, much like you, took the OTA update and don't have root and would like to have it once again if possible. However I did state numerous times that this is an opinion, my opinion, and everyone is free to do as they please with their devices.

While I had root and an unlocked bootloader on my S3, I found that the need rarely arose for me to even have to elevate privileges. I mainly rooted and unlocked because while I loved its hardware specs, I *hate* TouchWiz. I specifically got this phone because it had a relatively vanilla version of Android on it, it has fairly decent specs, it's nowhere as large as the Nexus 6, and the store I was at, didn't have any X's in stock. I was more than aware that us getting an unlocked bootloader, much less root was pretty unlikely, and I was actually pretty comfortable with it, surprisingly enough.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I read the article in the OP, and I don't think we have much to worry about. It seems like verity relies pretty heavily on SELinux being set to enforcing, and we already have to set it to permissive in order to get our mofo'd roms to work properly. Does this reduce the security of our devices? Of course it does, but if you really cared about device security, you wouldn't be trying to get root access to your device in the first place. When there is an epidemic of peoples' identities/accounts/money/etc. being stolen via remote attacks, that's when I'll start to care about things like that. Even Stagefright, which is extremely well-documented and unpatched on most Android phones in circulation, doesn't have a single example of a real-world attack being executed using it (as far as I know).
Root access allows me to use things like Cerberus to help combat the much more probable event of someone with physical access to my phone getting into it, so when it comes to security, I'll take less security-by-design and more security that I can choose to implement.

Android Nougat and Root/Bootloader discussion

Some recent news about Nougat has me a bit concerned about the future of root.
http://phandroid.com/2016/07/20/android-7-0-nougat-boot-corrupt/amp/
Basically from what I am gathering is that without an unlocked bootloader root will be impossible on the newest Android version.
Thought we could start a discussion about this and see if we can gather any information about Android N security updates.

It's not looking good. In fact if you plan on rooting a device going forward you should block updates now. Nougat will effectively be the end of root for all non nexus devices and in the future maybe even Nexus devices will have no root. XDA is going to become a lonely dark corner of the Internet.
http://thehackernews.com/2016/07/android-verified-boot.html?m=1

ShrekOpher said:
It's not looking good. In fact if you plan on rooting a device going forward you should block updates now. Nougat will effectively be the end of root for all non nexus devices and in the future maybe even Nexus devices will have no root. XDA is going to become a lonely dark corner of the Internet.
http://thehackernews.com/2016/07/android-verified-boot.html?m=1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This looks like they’re talking about dm-verity which we already have on our phones so it won’t affect us as long as the ENG boot works on Nougat. But I don’t think it will work or that another engineering boot will be leaked for Android N. This might indeed be the end of the road for root on US Galaxy S7(E).

The article here on XDA didn't say it would be impossible, it just said that it would require more work. Depending on when Nougat comes out, the majority of us may already be on other phones and it may not be a concern for the S7. There will always be vulnerabilities, it just takes looking and some trial and error.
I only have the S7 edge for the battery capacity and Samsung Pay. How long will Samsung be the only company with MST built in? Doubtful they'll be the only ones for the remainder of smartphone existence. A lot of us may move on to other companies based on that last statement alone.
Don't let a tougher challenge bring your hopes down. Nobody thought the S5 would get a bootloader unlock method, and it did a few months ago for Verizon. Nobody thought root would be achieved so quick for the S7 (all variants at that), but it did.
Just something to keep in mind.
***Edit***
Here's the link to the article here on XDA:
http://www.xda-developers.com/stric...r-correction-to-come-with-android-7-0-nougat/

It says that "For such devices, where the bootloader will be unlocked, these new changes should not be any more of a hindrance than what it is now." So unlocked devices with unlocked bootloaders would stay rootable. The s7 was already strictly enforcing dm-verity, an engineering kernel was leaked that disabled it.

How long will Samsung be the only company with MST built in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well since Samsung bought LoopPay (sources say for 250mil) and has all of the IP for it I would say they will be the only ones with MST. That is until something similar yet better is invented.