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Hi everyone,
could someone please explain me what all those "performance tweaks" are that the chefs are cooking into their roms?
i cant find anything about what they did... (search is offline for 20-30 min and other external searchengines also not find anything intressting)
i can see in some videos on youtube that the phone is faster - but why?
im using a class 6 16gb sdcard, so thats not be a problem i think...
can someone please enlighten me?
Thx!
whopper_g said:
Hi everyone,
could someone please explain me what all those "performance tweaks" are that the chefs are cooking into their roms?
i cant find anything about what they did... (search is offline for 20-30 min and other external searchengines also not find anything intressting)
i can see in some videos on youtube that the phone is faster - but why?
im using a class 6 16gb sdcard, so thats not be a problem i think...
can someone please enlighten me?
Thx!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah somebody else noticed this, i believe they messed with some caches and that about somes it up, to be perfectly honest i dont see any where a noticable speed improvment could be made with regards to the UI so its all a bit of FUD if you ask me.
with regards to your speed, just because its a 16GB class 6 doesnt automatically make it work, infact, if its stable at all your on to a winner, ive got a class 2 thats quicker than a 4, its just luck of the draw, most slowdowns are SD related, try other cards, dont splash out because it might not even work but play around and see what you can get.
Most chiefs use these tweaks
Not really "performance", more "optimizations"
dazza9075 said:
with regards to your speed, just because its a 16GB class 6 doesnt automatically make it work, infact, if its stable at all your on to a winner, ive got a class 2 thats quicker than a 4, its just luck of the draw, most slowdowns are SD related, try other cards, dont splash out because it might not even work but play around and see what you can get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's not the rated class that matters with wp7... the class just rates the sequential write speed. It's random access speed that matters with wp7 (or when running any os off a sd card)... it's the time it takes to access small random bits of data when to os needs it. Higher class cards actually tend to have lower random access speed because of the tweaks the manufacturer does to raise the sequential write speed.
To raise the sequential read and write speed, the higher class card will initialize the part of the chip thats being used before actually using it so it can then write or read to that part more quickly... but that takes time to initialize, and ends up taking longer if you are just grabbing one little bit of data from one part and a bit from another part, etc than it will take a class 2 card which doesn't do the initializing process and just starts grabbing the data when it's asked to.
Microsoft found this when testing sd cards for wp7... class 2 cards tended to work better than class 6 or 10 cards. It doesn't necessarily mean a class 6 or 10 card won't work, or that a class 2 card will definitely work, but more class 2 cards worked than class 6.
Also, since card makers don't really rate the random access speed, they don't keep the speed very consistent batch to batch... even with a card that's the same brand and class. You might get a Class 4 sandisk that works great, but someone else gets the exact same class 4 sandisk, but it was made a week later at the same factory and it may not work. The chips they use can be different from batch to batch, and they only watch and keep the sequential read and write speeds consistent.
Hopefully now that wp7 needs cards with good random access speed, card makers will rate that speed and sell cards good for wp7. And also when running android off SD, I've found that random access speed is what makes the biggest difference in performance. I remember reading about people having more lag in sd android builds with higher class cards... well that's why.
dazza9075 said:
ah somebody else noticed this, i believe they messed with some caches and that about somes it up, to be perfectly honest i dont see any where a noticable speed improvment could be made with regards to the UI so its all a bit of FUD if you ask me.
with regards to your speed, just because its a 16GB class 6 doesnt automatically make it work, infact, if its stable at all your on to a winner, ive got a class 2 thats quicker than a 4, its just luck of the draw, most slowdowns are SD related, try other cards, dont splash out because it might not even work but play around and see what you can get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your are right. i have to correct me - i got an 16 GB Class 2 SanDisk Card.
But why is there no info on how they speed up the MarktPlace that much? Its obvious that it is indeed faster - at least on Mobile network...
Sakem said:
Most chiefs use these tweaks
Not really "performance", more "optimizations"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i see that - but, as you allready said, those are no perfomance tweaks ... but thanks for the hint...
zarathustrax said:
Yeah, it's not the rated class that matters with wp7... the class just rates the sequential write speed. It's random access speed that matters with wp7 (or when running any os off a sd card)... it's the time it takes to access small random bits of data when to os needs it. Higher class cards actually tend to have lower random access speed because of the tweaks the manufacturer does to raise the sequential write speed.
To raise the sequential read and write speed, the higher class card will initialize the part of the chip thats being used before actually using it so it can then write or read to that part more quickly... but that takes time to initialize, and ends up taking longer if you are just grabbing one little bit of data from one part and a bit from another part, etc than it will take a class 2 card which doesn't do the initializing process and just starts grabbing the data when it's asked to.
Microsoft found this when testing sd cards for wp7... class 2 cards tended to work better than class 6 or 10 cards. It doesn't necessarily mean a class 6 or 10 card won't work, or that a class 2 card will definitely work, but more class 2 cards worked than class 6.
Also, since card makers don't really rate the random access speed, they don't keep the speed very consistent batch to batch... even with a card that's the same brand and class. You might get a Class 4 sandisk that works great, but someone else gets the exact same class 4 sandisk, but it was made a week later at the same factory and it may not work. The chips they use can be different from batch to batch, and they only watch and keep the sequential read and write speeds consistent.
Hopefully now that wp7 needs cards with good random access speed, card makers will rate that speed and sell cards good for wp7. And also when running android off SD, I've found that random access speed is what makes the biggest difference in performance. I remember reading about people having more lag in sd android builds with higher class cards... well that's why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the good explanation from the hardware point of view. but again all tweaks they made are software side.
Could it be that this is just a subjective speed improvement?
Do you use a MicroSD? What kind? I'm shopping for one and can use some suggestions... From cheap to expensive... Preferably cheap (;
16gb or 32gb
Class rating, I'm not sure. Are there any consideration for this on the tablet?
Ordering from NewEgg so if you have a link for one there, post'em.
Don't go too cheap. With stuff like this you do get what you pay for to some extent.
Sandisk, Patriot, Kingston, PNY, Sony etc are all brands I've had luck with. At present I've got a 16GB PNY. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178378
I got it for a higher price a while back, but no problems here in my Gtablet, A500, PC or either of my 2 laptops, one of which runs Debian 6.0
I get mine from Amazon, since I get free 2 day shipping with Amazon Prime. Picked up a Sandisk for a little over $56.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003WGJYCY
Is there a difference between SD and SDHC? And what about class?
Heres what im looking at-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220547&Tpk=microsd
2x32gb for 80'ish which seems like a good deal to me considering 1 goes for near 70... or am i reading that wrong... wife could use one for her hand me down archos 101.
gammaRascal said:
Is there a difference between SD and SDHC? And what about class?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SD is limited to 2GB, SDHC was the newer standard, supporting up to 32GB. SDXC is the newest, but I don't think there is a micro form factor yet and I don't imagine our devices have SDXC controllers in them. I may boycott SDXC for using proprietary exFAT as the recommended filesystem too.
Class is a speed based thing. Class = minimum write speed in MB/s(technically a multiple of 8Mbps). So Class 2 = 2MB/s. Class 10 = 10MB/s. Write speeds. Keep in mind reads will be faster usually.
Awesome, thanks for that concise explanation.
Does the tablet have a maximum class rating? Will it bottleneck on class 10? I'm looking at the class 6 as a minimum.
Well, maybe class 4... I just want to store my music on it and have it as some extra storage. Class 4 should be fast enough, eh? I wont be moving apps to it - ill keep those on the primary storage. But for playing music, accessing pictures, class 4 seems like it would fast enough for that.
Thoughts?
Folks,
Also, I have been using SDHC's and microSDHCs for a while now and it
has been my experience that sometimes there a little incompatibilities.
Even good brands sometimes don't seem to work for some reason.
I'm saying, pick your best choice, but that doesn't GUARANTEE it
will work. Need a little good fortune also!!!
Rev
Okay, I'm ordering:
Kingston 16GB Micro SDHC Flash Card w/USB Reader Model MRG2+SDC4/16GB
$32.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139195&cm_re=microsd-_-20-139-195-_-Product
I wouldn't pay any extra for anything beyond class 6 or so for a tablet. If a 10 was on special for a really good price maybe, or if you shared it with a camera that needed a class 10 maybe get one.
I suppose we could port hdparm or bonnie to our tabs and run it from adb shell or busybox and see if different class cards got different rates.
I got my SD card a few days ago - the one I linked to two posts up.
Plugged it in (has a usb sleeve) and moved a few songs onto it, put it in the tablet, started the tab, started Google Music and it saw them all. Shut down, moved about 8 gig of music onto the card, plugged it back into the tab, booted, launched Music, took a few seconds but it saw them all, played some and everything is golden.
I'll check in if I ever have any issues.
Thanks for the help folks!
I realize you already got your card, but figured I'd throw in one extra piece of info in the event that anyone stumbles upon this thread in a search at a later date.
You asked a question about class and an early poster provided some great info about what SD card classes mean. I think it's important to note that the class you need depends on the intended usage of the card. High speed cards (those with high class ratings) are most important for applications that require you to write large amounts of data in short amounts of time. The best example of this is photography. Rapidly taking high resolution images requires that a ton of data be written to a storage medium very quickly. As such, you'll see class ten cards in a lot of cameras.
If you intend to do things like store documents, music, etc. on the card - primarily for consumption - you don't need high speed.
One thing to note - if you write to the card a bunch (throw a few new hd movies on there every couple days) you will appreciate a better write speed. Also, picking up a higher speed card means that it can be used for a number of different applications (sharing with a camera for example). Given that there often is only a slight difference in price between a low speed and a higher speed it's usually a better deal to get a higher speed card (the flexibility and time savings are worth a few extra dollars).
Good info. Thanks for chiming in!
just a small FYI ...
with froyo ... SDcard IS SDcard & you can APP2SD or used what I have sworn by -->> MOD INSTALL LOCATION ( in phone forums )...etc
Now.. we have HONEYCOMB... and it partition a little differently. ( although I believed it's the manufacturers that have the final saying... based on the comparision between the Acer & the Asus )
the 2 read your physical SDcard like this:
Asus -->> REMOVABLE
Acer -->> EXT microSD
Your EXT SDcard is only good for storing data/medias ...etc ( currently apps cannot be install on the physical card.
your whole internal is actually partitioned into 2 areas
/ 1 small part for the OS/ROM ..etc
/ the LEFTOVER is actually read as THE SDcard !!!
use a file manager and explore the directories structure to see what I mean !!
so ... 2 future solutions:
1/ XDA DEVs will find a way to let us install to a preferred location. ( and they will !!... in due time )
2/ application developers just have to write their new programs to accommodate Honeycomb ..etc
I ordered a ADATA 8GB MicroSDHC Class 10 memory card for my HTC HD2. I'd like to know if it will work well on my phone since the transfer is so high. I'm asking this because I want to use a SD version on android.
Thank you in advance for the answer!
When i asked my friend who was the Sales Director of Sandisk Australiasia, he said that the read and write speeds of the supplied Class 2 was more than enough, since these Class 2 is the minimum guaranteed write speeds for that card.
Personally, i'd like to use a faster card, but i think that the key here is the quality of the card over the speed. Im using android over SD and dont mind the negligible lag.
Perhaps someone who has tried a faster card can comment on Droid on SD, as NAND speed offers the fastest, but without the flexibility.
GLO said:
When i asked my friend who was the Sales Director of Sandisk Australiasia, he said that the read and write speeds of the supplied Class 2 was more than enough, since these Class 2 is the minimum guaranteed write speeds for that card.
Personally, i'd like to use a faster card, but i think that the key here is the quality of the card over the speed. Im using android over SD and dont mind the negligible lag.
Perhaps someone who has tried a faster card can comment on Droid on SD, as NAND speed offers the fastest, but without the flexibility.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found a really old thread where people were saying it is fully supported. Thanks for the answer! I want to use android on the sd too because I don't really want to risk messing up my phone with a rom install.
It's been around for ages that the speed of the SD doesn't matter for SD android.
what matters is the access time, here's a thread for benchmarks:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1048649
the smaller the access time the better. in other words, you might get a class 10 card with long access time, and a class 2 with short access time, the class 2 will perform better overall (faster system loading, etc). but when you copy large files the class 10 will be faster.
meaning: for running android on SD you need a faster access time, and each millisecond counts.
[edit] forgot to say that random read and write speeds play a good role as well.
I use PNY 32GB class 10 MicroSD card in my HD2. No problem at all. Phone is only one week old and haven't installed any cooked ROM yet so 32GB card on stock ROM.
yes, a class 10 would work perfect with stock or custom windows ROMs. and with NAND android to some point.
I'm talking about SD android which, in case you haven't read the previous posts, he wants to run a build on his SD. and that's where the class 10 cards start to look bad. they mostly have slower random read/write speeds. In usage terms that's: lags, lags, errors, and more lags.
Hello to all Streak owners
I've just bought a Streak that requires a new screen, and whilst replacing that I will be looking into replacing / upgrading the 2gb internal Micro SD card.
Now I've read some threads on here and believe you have to set it up correctly as it only recognises 2gb at a time, but thats not my query now, I'll find the info and if not then I'll post for help.
Q)
My question is with Micro SD cards getting ever cheaper, and faster, higher performance ones dropping also in price, is it worth going in for these faster, higher performance cards???
Either for general Micro SD storage or internal storage, replacing the 2gb.
I know it seems common sense, by putting a faster or higher performance card in, should make it faster. But...
???)
Can the Streak make full use of the higher performance, faster cards?
When do you reach the point of overkill, or diminishing returns?
Can the streak support higher speed technology? (I believe I read somewhere that in fact the lower class cards were faster, although I don't understand this) If this is correct, someone please explain...
Ideally I'd like to know what is the fastest card the Streak can make use of? And what Micro SD technologies it can support?
Also if anyone has real world speeds for cards, (as I understand, often the numbers, classes manufacturers quote often mean nothing, compared to how they actually perform) or preferred manufacturers they could recommend, or links to tests, benchmarks, reviews etc.
Many, Many, Many thanks to this site and all its contributors,
I've used this site for many years, back when I had an XDA II from O2, lost / forgot that username, then again when got MDA Tmobile, AKA (Blueangel), but I don't post much as usually I'm able to find what I want, buy searching on the site or by xyz or whatever I want site:xda-developers.com in a popular search engine.
Best wishes and Seasons Greetings to you all,
John
Keep this in mind: at a certian point even if the card is compatable, the controller on the device itself will eventually be the bottleneck. Would this be the case? I have no idea, but adding in a faster card then the stock one has shown benefits.
I have a PNY U3 Turbo Performance 64GB High Speed MicroSDXC Class 10 UHS-I, up to 90MB/sec Flash Card. It seems to get slower with time. I mean it is literally taking me like 60 seconds to delete a few pictures. The card is formatted to portable storage. I only store music and photos on it. Reformatting offered no improvement. It is borderline unusable.
So, I benchmarked and found that my read speed is about 59 mb per sec and my write speed is 4.4 mb per sec. I can live with the read speed but the write speed is horrible. What gives?
How many pictures are you talking about, and how large are they?
128KB clusters?
I found trying to use 4K clusters in exfat was resulting in the same slowness. Reformatted to 128KB clusters and it flys (~20MB/s write ~70MB/read). Sandisk ultra plus 64GB.
I have this issue as well I have one of the fast Samsung cards. First few months worked great super fast but now takes a while to carry over a gig of pics and music. I also notice lag in loading and delteing photos through the phone
These are normal pics 5-6 MB. There has to be something wrong.
Irieone said:
These are normal pics 5-6 MB. There has to be something wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you find any info/solution let us know.
Im thinking about running it through one of the tests that show the read/write speed, if its not up to par on that I will contact samsung see if its covered under their warranty.
Why not opt for a 128GB sd card? My Moto X Pure will be here Thursday. I have a 64GB in my old phone but I may get 128.
Has the OP tried backing up their data and reformatting the card?
gpz1100 said:
Has the OP tried backing up their data and reformatting the card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I have tried this a few times and it did not help. The write speed of this particular card is somewhere between 5 and 9 mb/sec. I have used multiple benchmarking tools that all confirm the same thing. The sad thing, if you drill down into the specifications for a lot of these new sd cards there is no mention of write- speeds. I asked a question similar to my OP on Reddit and had somebody with the same card echo my issue. Terrible write speeds. I am not in the mood to buy another card with great specs only to find it performs poorly in my phone? There is still a part of me that thinks it's hardware or software related and specific to the phone. I can't quite believe that something advertised as "turbo", UHS-1, Class 10, and 90 mb/sec has an actual write speed of 5 mb/sec. It seems criminal.
^^See my post #3. I've found this card to have very good write speeds on the phone of ~14-16 MB/s, reads around 40-50. On the pc through a usb 3 card reader I can write at the speeds posted above.
But yes, unless you drill down, the marketing and advertising doesn't list write speeds. I can see why. It all depends where you'll be using it. I'll be lucky to see sustained 10MB/s read through my dash cam (not sure what the write speed even is) even through the card is capable of 40MB/s +.
I should say, using the moto x, through MTP, I've seen read speeds upwards of 35-40MB/s, write speeds of about 7-10MB. The card is faster through twrp, backup stats indicate ~14-16MB/s.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-x-style/general/micro-sd-speed-chart-t3196020