Related
I hope e this is try, and can run in our beautifful HD2.
...because i can't leave without Copy\Past feature in a smarthone SO....until that, i'm on Android scene.
http://www.winrumors.com/rumor-windows-phone-7-update-on-february-7/
Windows Phone 7 update on February 7
54 minutes ago...
Microsoft may be gearing up to release its first Windows Phone 7 update on February 7 according to reports.
LiveSide has tracked a number of French sites that suggest Microsoft will release its first Windows Phone 7 update on February 7. There’s no proof that the date is accurate and the timing is odd given that Microsoft chief Steve Ballmer will be in Barcelona on February 14 for the Mobile World Congress. Whether or not the date is accurate, WinRumors can confirm that Microsoft has Released to Manufacturing (RTM) its first update codenamed “NoDo”.
Microsoft’s first update will improve application start-up and resume times and introduce the important copy and paste feature. Microsoft posted a support article earlier this week that details the update process for Windows Phone 7 devices. The support article has led many to believe that the update is due imminently.
Microsoft revealed earlier this week that it has now shipped 2 million devices to carriers. Microsoft previously revealed that the company had shipped 1.5 million Windows Phone 7 units between the October launch and December. Research firm IDC and application platform Appcelerator recently surveyed over 2,000 developersto work out their intent for 2011. Developer interest for Windows Phone 7 rose 8 points to 36% ‘very interested’ according to the results. IDC says the interest was “due to a better-than-expected launch.” Survey respondents also said that “Windows Phone’s improved UI was a critical factor for the increase.”
Microsoft also revealed there are now 24,000 registered Windows Phone developers and over 6,500 applications in the marketplace. Microsoft’s customer satisfaction rates on Windows Phone handsets are at 93% according to the company. Microsoft is believed to be planning to unveil a second bigger update in February at the Mobile World Congress show in Barcelona, Spain. Microsoft’s second update will introduce enhanced developer controls for applications and updated Silverlight components.
Joe Belfiore, who oversees Windows Phone Program Management, and is responsible for the design and software product definition of forthcoming generations of Windows phones will keynote MIX11 this year. Belfiore is expected to layout a roadmap for the future of Windows Phone 7 and detail Microsoft’s second Windows Phone 7 update. Microsoft is also working on a major overhaul of the Windows Phone 7 browser. In a job posting, listed in November, the software maker promises a “major overhaul of standard support and new approaches to make significant advances in performance, power consumption and bandwidth utilization.” Microsoft may be ready to detail its future Internet Explorer mobile plans at MIX in April too. Microsoft is believed to be planning Flash and HTML5 support for Windows Phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets wait, and see if Microsoft wants ot not, more embassatores for WP7s.....
From what i'm reading it seems to me that microsoft won't block htc hd2 phones, they want developers to go to windows phone 7, they want ratings to go up.
So to me is they won't block access for htc hd2's.
After the update...
Microsoft, does NOT want hackers and independent developers modifying their OS. The HTC HD2 will be excluded from the update. If Microsoft wanted this and other devices like it on the new OS, they would lighten up on their restrictions. After all THEY are the ones that control it.
The WP7 update will close the bug that allows the Chevron tool to work. Our only hope is that someone will hack the update to work. It's going to be much harder this time, as MS had some help and insight from the Chevron guys! Time will tell us for sure.
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your train of thought, and love the optimism
Is there something like a kudos button here?
neugroove said:
I appreciate your train of thought, and love the optimism
Is there something like a kudos button here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, But he just said it
MS will surely shut down that bug on their os and no longer hd2 with wp7 ,but for surely they will hack into it , MS answered me that porting WP7 to HD2 WAS NOT ILEIGAL
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I shared your optimism and hope you are correct, but from what I can understand, the update will effectively push out a new ROM having backed up the old one first.
Whatever black magic the DFT guys did to hack the ROM to work on HD2 would surely be undone? I therefore believe we won't get the update unless and until the DFT hack it.
There could be stuff below the ROM level that won't be affected and it could be this stuff that DFT tweaked - not knowing the architecture of WP7 I couldn't comment.
Being a pessimist, it just feels too good to be true that a update would work without any issue - hope I'm wrong though. This could be how MS propose to close the HD2 loophole. It would even work quite well for MS. Having had a taste of WP7, how many of us might go out and buy a WP7 phone having had an extended trial and then being cut off from our dealer...
Gustopher said:
I wish I shared your optimism and hope you are correct, but from what I can understand, the update will effectively push out a new ROM having backed up the old one first.
Whatever black magic the DFT guys did to hack the ROM to work on HD2 would surely be undone? I therefore believe we won't get the update unless and until the DFT hack it.
There could be stuff below the ROM level that won't be affected and it could be this stuff that DFT tweaked - not knowing the architecture of WP7 I couldn't comment.
Being a pessimist, it just feels too good to be true that a update would work without any issue - hope I'm wrong though. This could be how MS propose to close the HD2 loophole. It would even work quite well for MS. Having had a taste of WP7, how many of us might go out and buy a WP7 phone having had an extended trial and then being cut off from our dealer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah right, I wouldn't buy the same hardware again, I would consider if at least any of the wp7 phones get the Desire HD hardware, but none of them has it. If the update stop us from wp7 then I'll stick with android and wait for the next major hardware upgrade then I will look for another phone.
Voluntary update?
My understanding is that the update will not mandatory.
You can choose to update you system or not. So our HD27's will still work once the update is released - we just wont have the new features or be able to run apps that use the new featrues.
I thinks the chances of the update working are fair to good. From what I have gathered the biggest problem the DFT team had was getting magldr and the WP7 OS to play well together from NAND.
I may be wrong - but I like the "glass half full approach".....
I don't think you could update the hd2 , and if I was DFT I had prevented it from updating to (just to be sure that there are after a update no 14000 bricks)
i wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 could flawelessly get the update. Since it is an MS update, none of the hardware specific software/drivers will be affected. Otherwise, MS has to push updates for specific devices and that is not what they are planning to do. But who'll know? I am sure to be the first to try that out and if I will brick my device, than so be it. I don't think the HD2 can be bricked beyond repairing. With all the great tutorials, first aid guides here on XDA, I think it is safe to try it.
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can detect it from IMEI, first 8 digits state the manufacturer and model. There are DBs on the net to verify IMEI against phone maker and model. e.g. imei-number.com/tac-list
MerLinh said:
Yeah right, I wouldn't buy the same hardware again, I would consider if at least any of the wp7 phones get the Desire HD hardware, but none of them has it. If the update stop us from wp7 then I'll stick with android and wait for the next major hardware upgrade then I will look for another phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair point. Until DFT WP7 I was at a loss though; WM6.5.5 is dying through lack of new stuff, I didn't fancy WP7 and having had a play with Android it just irritates me - I know it can be changed but the default colour scheme and design looks like it was done by a class of 7 year olds with a box of crayons (NB: my opinion, apologies Android-lovers).
So at least I know now that I could go out and buy a WP7 device, but you are quite correct that the launch phones are a disappointing bunch, with nothing one whit better than my HD2.
I have a hunch that something sexy must be coming as WP7 slowly gathers momentum, so I'll hang onto my money for now.
What to do if the update breaks the HD2(7) though...
(Accepting that it may well be optional and might well not break it even then)
hyellow said:
i wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 could flawelessly get the update. Since it is an MS update, none of the hardware specific software/drivers will be affected. Otherwise, MS has to push updates for specific devices and that is not what they are planning to do. But who'll know? I am sure to be the first to try that out and if I will brick my device, than so be it. I don't think the HD2 can be bricked beyond repairing. With all the great tutorials, first aid guides here on XDA, I think it is safe to try it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, I wouldn´t count on that. I can definitely imagine the updater could be able to detect the phone you are using (many of us showing "HD7") and upload specific drivers, too - the original WP7 devices did receive some updates already. To make the updates user friendly, they maybe include those brand/operator specific files and drivers, who knows. And replacing the DFT/Leo70 driver material with original HD7 versions might maybe brick the system...
galatei said:
They can detect it from IMEI, first 8 digits state the manufacturer and model. There are DBs on the net to verify IMEI against phone maker and model. e.g. imei-number.com/tac-list
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that seems to be a bit far stretched... but who knows... modern times, no?
At least, it would kind of confirm my thoughts above...
It could be that we may get the update and install it OTA,but in absence of any immediate DFT or Chevron Development efforts we could very well get stuck with WP7 on our HD2s !!!.
I'm pretty sure we won't be able to update our phones successfully with MS's update... we'll probably have to wait until DFT releases an update to flash manually. But unless DFT pre-hacks the registry to make it show up as a HD7, we will have problems doing anything with it until a new way to unlock it is discovered. We'll have to wait and see what happens, but we will probably be stuck without updates for a while I think.
the only update i am looking forward to is massively improved battery life, this has to be from DFT.
haksam said:
the only update i am looking forward to is massively improved battery life, this has to be from DFT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? How can you live without Copy \ Past feature? I use WP7s for 3 days, and was very annoying without that feature.
And I miss, only copy /past but too, more share options and multitasking.... I like very much the UI, but I need quickly this features added.
Sent by my HD2 Gingerbread device
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually, think about it, there is one single blindingly obvious difference thats so easy to detect they could get a 10 year old to locate them.
How many buttons do you have on your HD2? i wouldnt be sure there was no way of knowing. even if we take that out you'll still have some kind of unique signature on the cracked OS that we have all used, it would be near on impossible to hide the fact its an HD2 and not an HD7 if they really wanted to find out.
here!!
(In Traditional Chinese)
Only HTC doesn't seem to unlock the hboot now!!
For those wondering here is a google translate version of the text on the page - that is why it is in bad english
Sony Ericsson last month promotional offer for mobile phone unlocking Bootloader, as it were the entire mobile phone industry has some new territory like. Samsung announced soon also Twitter 『If Google does not oppose, they will also unlock the phone Bootloader』. Motorola has been silent today audible.
Motorola promised by the end of this year's Android device for its offer unlocking services, users can own brush from a ROM.
Now even unlock a Motorola also provides that only four brands in the Android HTC did not respond due to the unknown when it said it will adhere or surrender it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like HTC made no commnet
So I would say this article is one way or another. Plus maybe something is lost in that translation a little.
HTC, to this point, seems pretty good with being unlocked. I've had my Evolution now since it came out and its fully customized. The new Evolution after it also looks that way. I really thing, aside from Motorola, that the carriers may start being he ones to ask to lock or unlock he bootloaders. ISPs in the US finally out caps on bandwidth last year, I would see locked bootloaders being next. Really time will only tell, but hopefully we get to keep our freedoms. The FCC approved a device is ours when we buy it, therefore we should be able to do what we want. Hopefully companies keep that in mind instead of trying to lock stuff down.
The big business rreason is that an unlocked device lets a user stay with that device longer, as it can be customized wig the latest software features. Unlocked devices really force companies to invest in research to give us better hardware now, costing them more money. As anyway can really developed the software that goes into the phones.
My thoughts anyway...
~Max
√ This Message Sent From CM7 Nightlies HTC-Evo4G ™
Hello,
I just got a Focus v.1.3 unlocked from AT&T.
I am living in Europe and my carrier is Vodafone.
It's unclear to me how updates work.
I currently have updated the phone to 7390 using Zune desktop app.
However no sign on the 7392, I've been checking about that.
I know that updates are delivered by the carrier and that AT&T doesn't deliver yet the 7392 update for Focus v.1.3
But, in the case of using the phone by Zune, shouldn't the updates be available?
Thanks in advance!
Anyone throw some thoughts?
Thanks
HKLM\System\Platform\DeviceTargetingInfo\MobileOperator
Edit it and instead of "ATT-US" (original value) leave blank
You will get an update. I did and I have Focus v1.3, originally on AT&T.
After that update you can revert back to the original value.
Also, read my post here.
Thanks for your comment EnderPsp.
But I don't get it really.
Since you update by Zune, why isn't the phone getting the updates?
This what I don't understand.
andreiuc said:
Thanks for your comment EnderPsp.
But I don't get it really.
Since you update by Zune, why isn't the phone getting the updates?
This what I don't understand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either take my word on it and do the suggested change in registry (you need to be unlocked for this) or wait until the carrier (AT&T) releases the update. Considering the nice timeframe they haven't yet, I'd say there is a good chance Mango will come directly before AT&T releases 7392 for v1.3
The phone isn't getting the update because the carrier has not relased it (for Focus v1.3). However, Microsoft has released it for all other unbranded phones and if you unbrand (modify the registry as I suggested), the phone will get the Microsoft update instead of AT&T update. There are two minor differences in AT&T/MS updates but the main bonus is you can update to Mango.
Btw, you don't need to say thanks, just hit the "Thanks" button
OK, let me get this straight.
So Zune is a desktop app written by Microsoft that talks to a phone with an OS written by Microsoft but Zune gets updates from AT&T ?
Why the heck do they do that?
OS updates doesn't have to do with the carrier.
I mean, it's not like if you have a AT&T branded phone you also have a branded WP7.
Why are the updates coming from AT&T anyway?
Why isn't the phone getting updates from Microsoft?
Please enlighten me!
andreiuc said:
OK, let me get this straight.
So Zune is a desktop app written by Microsoft that talks to a phone with an OS written by Microsoft but Zune gets updates from AT&T ?
Why the heck do they do that?
OS updates doesn't have to do with the carrier.
I mean, it's not like if you have a AT&T branded phone you also have a branded WP7.
Why are the updates coming from AT&T anyway?
Why isn't the phone getting updates from Microsoft?
Please enlighten me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Partly correct.
Zune is an app that is an intermediary between the cloud and the WP7 phone. Imagine it like a supermarket.
Now, the updates are coming initially from MS but carriers are responsible for their phone's update, service, warranty, quality etc. So they will be the ones actually releasing the update IF the phone is branded by them. This is done to avoid possible issues (any customer service the carrier need to do it even if it's a potential OS problem). Otherwise the general update from MS applies for unbranded phones (ie prepay, free phones etc). The carriers even modify sometimes the update to include specific features. But this also means more QA time...
The carriers know which one is their phone because Zune reports the IMEI and then MS redirects the phone to the carrier corresponding to that phone's IMEI.
So carriers are doing QA job on how a specific phone work with OS?
It's pretty weird that carriers do more then just provide phone services(call, data, etc).
The fact that carriers are modifying the OS update is completely idiotic from my point of view.
They should not mess with OS at all.
I pretty sure that actually they are using some tools provided my Microsoft.
So it's even more idiotic.
I know that carriers have specific apps, but these should be just apps like any other apps.
I don't understand how Microsoft, which is very late anyway at the smart phone party, likes this situation.
andreiuc said:
So carriers are doing QA job on how a specific phone work with OS?
It's pretty weird that carriers do more then just provide phone services(call, data, etc).
The fact that carriers are modifying the OS update is completely idiotic from my point of view.
They should not mess with OS at all.
I pretty sure that actually they are using some tools provided my Microsoft.
So it's even more idiotic.
I know that carriers have specific apps, but these should be just apps like any other apps.
I don't understand how Microsoft, which is very late anyway at the smart phone party, likes this situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The carriers usually alter this not for their customer's benefit but their own MS provides guidelines and help on how to do the alteration and how to QA. Personally, I don't think MS likes it, but allows it. Pretty much the same as other phone manufacturers.
Also, personally I don't like this carrier update fiasco either, and I agree with you. But, carriers are the ones selling the phone so, MS had to cut a deal somewhere to penetrate the market.
I guess the next thing for Microsoft would be to buy or have some kind of strategic partnership with a carrier.
That would be new But it's highly unlikely it will happen.
andreiuc said:
I guess the next thing for Microsoft would be to buy or have some kind of strategic partnership with a carrier.
That would be new But it's highly unlikely it will happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if that will happen, considering iOS, Android and RIM
If they do it, they would do it in US, but no carrier would accept losing money and customers by signing exclusivity.
However, MS do have strategic partnerships with all major phone manufacturers: Samsung, HTC, LG, Nokia etc. THAT will help
Sometime in the future, as hardware advances, phone calls will be carried only over internet.
So these idiotic issues might stop.
And stupid carriers reign will end!
EnderPsp said:
HKLM\System\Platform\DeviceTargetingInfo\MobileOperator
Edit it and instead of "ATT-US" (original value) leave blank
You will get an update. I did and I have Focus v1.3, originally on AT&T.
After that update you can revert back to the original value.
Also, read my post here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EnderPsp, why should I put back the original value anyway?
andreiuc said:
EnderPsp, why should I put back the original value anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you can get the NoDo update after 7392, also, otherwise you might not get some updates in Zune. If you get the update when unbranded, better!
That's how it worked before Mango. Not sure now, but if you're getting the updates unbranded, don't bother putting it back.
Ready for some great news!
Microsoft which is recently seeded to windows8.1 update for developers, now the rumors are floating around that it will working on releasing Windows Phone update 2 to developers by October this year.
Main points of this news
Expected that Cortana virtual assistant will cover wider geographical area.
Sorting of setting menu that is expected to users to allow to better organise settings by resorting to an 'alphabetical sort'.
Expected to come with toggle feature in action center.
all the expected features of Windows Phone 8.1 Update 2 indicate at more high-end devices manufactured by Microsoft, probably a new high-end Lumia series.
There's talk about a Lumia 1020 successor, might come with Update 2. Things are moving fast for WP. I like it. And with Dev preview I don't have to root my device to be able to use the newest of the newest firmware.
astoria0128 said:
Ready for some great news!
Microsoft which is recently seeded to windows8.1 update for developers, now the rumors are floating around that it will working on releasing Windows Phone update 2 to developers by October this year.
Main points of this news
Expected that Cortana virtual assistant will cover wider geographical area.
Sorting of setting menu that is expected to users to allow to better organise settings by resorting to an 'alphabetical sort'.
Expected to come with toggle feature in action center.
all the expected features of Windows Phone 8.1 Update 2 indicate at more high-end devices manufactured by Microsoft, probably a new high-end Lumia series.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Highly unlike for them to go this fast, considering they just released update 1 a few weeks back and the update is still full of bugs. And OEMs like HTC and samsung still need to get their firmware ready for update 1.
Bu telefonu sevmedim gitti
MOD EDIT: please post in English or provide an automatic translation next time, such as this one:
I tried to like this phone
Aziz04 said:
Bu telefonu sevmedim gitti
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are on a forum with the English as language, so please post the messages in English
anaheiim said:
We are on a forum with the English as language, so please post the messages in English
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all right . I'm sorry. ' I do not like the phone went '
Just got a update OTA, it mention some improvement and I think a file explorer.
Forgot to mention i have the Lumia 930.
kms108 said:
Just got a update OTA, it mention some improvement and I think a file explorer.
Forgot to mention i have the Lumia 930.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-windows-phone-81-gdr1-update-lumia-930
Loving update 1 on lumia 930
--------------------------------------------
My house phone's better than your iPhone.
I want Windows Phone 10 Technical Preview.
Sent From Windows 7 On HTC Droid DNA
grilledcheesesandwich said:
I want Windows Phone 10 Technical Preview.
Sent From Windows 7 On HTC Droid DNA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feb
-------------------------->SIG<------------------------
Even my house phone's better than your iPhone.
Mini-rant
OK, so I have to rant (just briefly) about the whole state of Samsung phones at the moment. Basically, we spend gobs of money on expensive devices and get locked down pre-loaded junk in return. Oh, they are physically impressive, have good specs, and are aesthetically nice gadgets. But would you spend $1600 bucks on a new laptop that came with software you couldn’t remove and could only be upgraded for the next 4 years?!?!
I have wanted to experiment with LineageOS for years. I bought a used Samsung S8+ in 2018 and quickly found out that LineageOS was a no go because Samsung locks the bootloaders on all US and Canadian models. So, that was never going to happen unless some guru found a hack.
Now, five years later, I went out of my way to find a Global/European S10+ (an SM-G975F) specifically so that I could install LineageOS. Now, I managed to do that easily enough. But now I am stuck with a phone that has poor reception and slow LTE speeds because it is missing LTE bands used in Canada (i.e. the SM-G975F uses different bands than the SM-G975W).
So here we are… making tradeoffs again.
And while I like fiddling with things like this, I have to wonder... why are we here in the first place? I just want a phone that doesn’t come preloaded with junk that I don’t want. I don’t want Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, TikTok or even Office 365 pre-installed and non-removable. It is like moving into a new house and finding out that the builder picked out furniture for the living room and, while you can push it off to the side and cover it with a blanket, you can never actually remove it. Why is the builder picking out furniture for me in the first place?
Some will say they like the furniture the builder picked. Most will say they don’t hate it or that they found a way to cover it up sufficiently that they don’t really notice it anymore. That isn’t really the point though, is it?
LineageOS on the other hand comes with nothing that it shouldn’t. Oh, and you can have LineageOS if you like (if you stand on your head and find a way to order a phone from another market) but then you have crummy reception forever. Oh, and when you are done you are a 2nd class citizen who can't use the NFC chip on his/her phone to pay for things because you were a "bad person" who found a way to remove the builder's sofa from your living room.
Oh, there are tricks… download this tool or that… but some don’t work anymore because of update XYZ…
Why can’t I just turn on the LTE bands I need??!?! Like, seriously, why not?!?!
Or better yet, why doesn’t my phone do it for me when it sees the Bell SIM card?!?!
Whose phone is this anyway?!?!
The state of Samsung phones in North America is garbage. Full stop. Pure garbage. No, I am not being too harsh.
1) All phones should come with basic firmware that makes the phone work and nothing else. The phone should not be used as an on-ramp into whichever ecosystem is paying the manufacturer more. OEM apps (i.e. Samung Calculator, Samsung DeX, etc.) are fine but no 3rd party junk like Facebook and Instagram. That is what the store is for.
2) All bootloaders should be unlockable and re-lockable once custom firmware is loaded if that firmware is itself signed. No "tripping Knox" or this nonsense.
3) All radio/LTE/carrier settings should be accessible and customizable with easily selectable presets for major carriers worldwide.
Anything else is a closed ecosystem that doesn't respect your basic property rights.
OK, done ranting... Maybe someone from Samsung will notice and maybe it will make a difference.
Best regards,
The Fish
I run two stock N10+'s, a N975U and a N975U1.
Running on Android 9* and 10 respectively. Neither have had their firmware upgraded. I use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks and settings are heavily optimized. Both run fast, stable and fullfill their mission with almost no issues and little maintenance. Excellent SOT and standby time.
Both are compatible with AT&T and as such there are no reception issues. You check and verify this before you purchase. Slam the sim card in and they're good to go. Once optimized and running well, don't upgrade firmware or update apps and it will run fine for years. Don't do the above and you will need to find work arounds... if they exist.
Current load on this N10+ will be 3yo this June. No malware during that time. Still looks, feels and runs like new. Only repair has been a battery. After a steep learning curve I'm very pleased with these devices. They are still a joy to use. However I can't say the same for the proceeding Samsung flagships and will never own one of them for a litany of reasons*.
Samsung phones with/in this SOC/generation can run well in capable hands, stock, if used as described.
*has last Android 9 firmware update
**lol, don't get me started
blackhawk said:
Neither have had their firmware upgraded. I use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks and settings are heavily optimized. Both run fast, stable and fullfill their mission with almost no issues and little maintenance.
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This kind of proves my point. I am not saying there isn't a way to get your Samsung phone running the way you want it. I am saying that the hoops we have to jump through and the tradeoffs we have to make are unacceptable.
Why do you have to use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks?!?! Why should you have to block *any* APKs at all?
Why do you have to stick with old, outdated firmware? Why do you have to make this tradeoff? Why do we have to have a hostile relationship with Samsung?
Why can't we have a nice phone, no bloatware, no junk, no apps we don't want. Get updates for a reasonable amount of time (i.e. till the hardware no longer supports it)?
blackhawk said:
Both are compatible with AT&T and as such there are no reception issues. You check and verify this before you purchase. Slam the sim card in and they're good to go.
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Click to collapse
Sure. And I knew ahead of time when I purchased the Global S10+ (the SM-G975F) that it didn't support all the same LTE bands as the Canadian model (the SM-G975W). But again, I had to make tradeoffs because I wanted to run LineageOS. Again, why do we have to choose between two crummy options?!?! Where are the good options?!?
I am daring to imagine a world where this is better. Really, we used to have phones locked to service providers and 5-year contracts. Those were the bad old days. But these days right now (with the bloatware, etc.) are also not great. It reminds me of the Windows XP era of PCs where you would buy a new PC and be prompted to sign up for 100 different services upon initial bootup. Only difference then was you could re-install the operating system on your PC and free yourself from the OEM bloatware. But now, with phones, they make even that impossible with locked bootloaders.
Basically, if I could unlock the bootloader of a Canadian SM-G975W that would be ideal. Any why isn't it like that anyway?!?! Isn't that the way it should be to begin with?
Locked bootloaders with no option to unlock should be illegal.
The Fish
thefish123 said:
This kind of proves my point. I am not saying there isn't a way to get your Samsung phone running the way you want it. I am saying that the hoops we have to jump through and the tradeoffs we have to make are unacceptable.
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I'm a pragmatist, I use what works.
thefish123 said:
Why do you have to use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks?!?! Why should you have to block *any* APKs at all?
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It's only blocking what I consider bloatware. 10 or 15 of those apks are apps I installed but chose to kept disabled 99% of the time.
thefish123 said:
Why do you have to stick with old, outdated firmware? Why do you have to make this tradeoff? Why do we have to have a hostile relationship with Samsung?
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It's your choice to upgrade and there's no reason to upgrade if the firmware is fulfilling its mission if you're running Android 9 or higher. If you lack wherewithal you pay a price...
thefish123 said:
Why can't we have a nice phone, no bloatware, no junk, no apps we don't want. Get updates for a reasonable amount of time (i.e. till the hardware no longer supports it)?
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Click to collapse
Updates and upgrades aren't needed on an optimized device that's running well. New phones with the newest firmware are running like crap in case you didn't notice. Very little speed increase in most routine activities and horrible SOT on most.
thefish123 said:
Sure. And I knew ahead of time when I purchased the Global S10+ (the SM-G975F) that it didn't support all the same LTE bands as the Canadian model (the SM-G975W). But again, I had to make tradeoffs because I wanted to run LineageOS. Again, why do we have to choose between two crummy options?!?! Where are the good options?!?
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Well you knew there be connectivity issues and that should have flagged it. Custom roms have custom problems with a limited user/support base.
thefish123 said:
I am daring to imagine a world where this is better. Really, we used to have phones locked to service providers and 5-year contracts. Those were the bad old days. But these days right now (with the bloatware, etc.) are also not great. It reminds me of the Windows XP era of PCs where you would buy a new PC and be prompted to sign up for 100 different services upon initial bootup. Only difference then was you could re-install the operating system on your PC and free yourself from the OEM bloatware. But now, with phones, they make even that impossible with locked bootloaders.
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Click to collapse
It's not that bad if you shop smart. I bought out my AT&T N10+ at 2 years. It's almost identical to my carrier unlocked variant. I want the boot loader locked for security. No way I'm touching the firmware as these are premium flagships that run extremely well as is. I have very little to gain and lots to lose... including time.
thefish123 said:
Basically, if I could unlock the bootloader of a Canadian SM-G975W that would be ideal. Any why isn't it like that anyway?!?! Isn't that the way it should be to begin with?
Locked bootloaders with no option to unlock should be illegal.
The Fish
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Click to collapse
You buy Samsung flagships for the premium hardware and then work within the framework that's available and what works best for you. You can root the Exynos variants but their hardware is almost always inferior to the Snaps. Consequences.
At this point both Samsung and Android newest products are so out of line that they are unusable to me. I don't care what they do, screw them. I'm in a holding pattern for 3+ more years happily using my N10+'s... I don't care. All my issues are worked out because I threw time at them to do so and I'm very satisfied with the outcome.
In 3+ years I will reevaluate the situation and decide what to do. Right now as things stand I don't reccomend any new Samsung's or anything Android version above Android 10. Unfortunately I have no easy solutions for you other than what I did. Even that isn't simple fix but it's a zero risk fix. I refuse to risk damaging these N10+'s by mucking with their firmware unless its needed for repair.
blackhawk said:
Well you knew there be connectivity issues and that should have flagged it. Custom roms have custom problems with a limited user/support base.
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The reason I purchased this specific model was so that I could run a custom ROM. But the connectivity issues are not caused by the custom rom. They are caused by the fact that I am using a phone designed for a different market where different LTE bands are used.
And yes, I knew that ahead of time. And I am not regretting that. But you are missing the point. The radio in my phone is perfectly capable of using the LTE bands that my carrier uses. So why shouldn't there be a straightforward way to enable them?
What if I used to live in Europe and moved to Canada? Should I be forced to buy a new phone just because Samsung doesn't let me change LTE bands? Or if I travel between Europe and Canada on business then I just have to suffer with crummy reception?
My point is one of ownership, property rights.
thefish123 said:
The reason I purchased this specific model was so that I could run a custom ROM. But the connectivity issues are not caused by the custom rom. They are caused by the fact that I am using a phone designed for a different market where different LTE bands are used.
And yes, I knew that ahead of time. And I am not regretting that. But you are missing the point. The radio in my phone is perfectly capable of using the LTE bands that my carrier uses. So why shouldn't there be a straightforward way to enable them?
What if I used to live in Europe and moved to Canada? Should I be forced to buy a new phone just because Samsung doesn't let me change LTE bands? Or if I travel between Europe and Canada on business then I just have to suffer with crummy reception?
My point is one of ownership, property rights.
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Click to collapse
Connectivity is paramount. Regardless of what your user rights should be, you need to work within the limits of the options available. The square peg round hole thing...
You may be able to enable those bands and that's probably where you should be directing your energy. I purposely try to avoid having to do that as much as possible and never had to. You dove down the rabbit hole, hopefully it's not too deep. Try looking at the hidden phone user settings first... I guess.
blackhawk said:
Connectivity is paramount. Regardless of what your user rights should be, you need to work within the limits of the options available. The square peg round hole thing...
You may be able to enable those bands and that's probably where you should be directing your energy. I purposely try to avoid having to do that as much as possible and never had to. You dove down the rabbit hole, hopefully it's not too deep. Try looking at the hidden phone user settings first... I guess.
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Yes, I agree. Being a phone is the most important thing that a phone does. And I am directing my energies in that direction as well. But in the process, it occures to me that a messed-up antagonistic anti-customer ecosystem this whole thing is. We would *never* accept this from a computer company, a car manufacturer, or a home builder. Yet, for some reason, we accept it from phone makers like Samsung and that we need to work within these [artificially imposed] limits.
Anyway, yes, there used to be a hidden phone menu (why hidden?) that would have let me enable the bands that I need. But Samsung removed it sometime last year with an update. Again, why?!?!
I'll keep looking. I'm sure I will figure out something in time inspite of Samsung, not because of them.
The Fish
What OS version are you on?
The band selections are probably still there although means of access may have changed.
My knowledge in this area is very limited. The sim card always configured it perfectly for me.
Best to check with your carrier to be sure that phone model is on their white list.
You could try seeing if someone help you from your carrier tech support...sometimes you get lucky if you try enough.
blackhawk said:
What OS version are you on?
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I am running LineageOS 19.1.
blackhawk said:
The band selections are probably still there although means of access may have changed.
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Click to collapse
The band selection app is categorically *not* there anymore because it A) it was part of the Samsung firmware and B) even if I was on Samsung firmware it wouldn't be there anymore either because Samsung removed it.
There used to be a tool you could download that would allow you to access the "hidden" band selection app. But it stopped working because Samsung removed the hidden app altogeather. Like I said in my original post on this thread "Oh, there are tricks… download this tool or that… but some don’t work anymore because of update XYZ…"
My point is that the whole nonsense of disabled bands and locked bootloaders is infuriating. I is like buying a computer that can only access the internet at full speed in Europe and if you fly to Canada and use it there you get penalized with 1/2 speed. Oh, and even through you could change it with the flip of a switch that switch is buried, disabled, hidden behind locked doors.
The Google Pixel 7 Pro has all the bands turned on (i.e. there is one phone for the whole world) and the boot loader is unlocked. Just saying...
At some point I will probably prevail in getting the bands I need turned on. And then I will likely be very happy with this phone for the next 5+ years. But none of that changes the fact that this anti-consumer predatory behavior on the part of Samsung is unacceptable.
The Fish