Related
This community is so damn innovative and cooperative, it amazes me what software/ROMS get cooked here which really add a lot of productivity value to me, transforming a tedious, hard-to-read Windows Mobile User Interface into a tool that really works on the go. And I've been equally impressed by the collaborative spirit of this community in problem solving and feature tweeks.
Thus I am curious if there is an organized policy here that helps us end-users deter the scammers who grab software from XDA-developers, bundle it, and sell it across the web. I'm speaking of a prominent spot on the home page and within the information design of these forums that, just like the "Missing Kids" alerts on milk cartons, highlights prominently the latest scammers stealing work here.
I understand this forum is for actual development, but truth is this issue gets lost in "General" forums. Because it's the people who hack here who are the people being hurt directly.
Though I signed onto XDA over a year ago, and have read volumes re my T-mobile MDA and software upgrades here, I ended up being nonetheless too nervous to follow the very clear instructions posted last year with all if the various WM 6 roms developed here. And I never did upgrade.
But I have a WING now, and I wanted an iphone theme and user interface. Again I read all the sticky threads for the Herald, as well as the links from the wiki for that specific phone. After several days of trying to figure out "should I be first flashing my T-mobile ROM to a more efficient one, before then seeking to install one of the iphone themes and apps like A_C's S2U2 etc. I then did a dumb consumer thing: when searching this site using Google, I followed the links to one or two of the GOOGLE AD-WORDS hawking an iPhone theme on your PocketPC.
Long story short, I got scammed of $10 for something that was outdated and didn't even install properly on my WING... But I'd been "comforted" by the presentation on their website, http://iphonethemeforpocketpc.com , thinking I would get my head cleared of the confusion that mounts when I'd dig down deep into the many discussions of so many ROMs & themes & apps here. I got burned, that was bad enough. But it then pissed me off doubly that superior software would be found here at XDA -- and more than likely some of that guy's component cab files were simply stolen from developers right here.
I ended up back here and successfully installed the ifonz theme, A_C's S2U2 (the scam site had an old slide2unlock version... bit as everyone here knows, A_C's app is superb. I also installed Contact Manager (amazing!), PCM keyboard (what an improvement over windows), and MortPlayer (fantastic). I intend to donate to each program author.
But the purpose of this post is this: I filed a dispute with PayPal (requires login) over this scammer's non-working product and absolute refusal to even reply to my early "friendly" emails seeking install help. Went through PayPal's Resolution Center "escalation process" -- after no reply from the seller to PayPal -- and my dispute became a CLAIM for Paypal to determine outcome. PayPal's reply, denying the claim, states that they reviewed all communications and investigated the issue fully (totally not true).
I could have stopped there -- afterall i'd long ago expended way more than $10 worth of my time -- but it was for the principle of it. So I called PayPal, went through all the menu-options, screenings, and hold queues, and finally spoke to an actual Resolution Agent -- who was very nice, & actually very helpful.
However: I learned then, from her, what many of you may already know -- but I wonder DOES everyone know?, because I sure didn't... She told me that anything digital or downloadable is not even covered with any Buyer Protection as disclosed in PayPal's terms of service. So the claim got closed automatically because it didn't qualify for any dispute resolution. I was really surprised by this, that no downloadable software is subject to dispute/resolution policies -- and that's why I am writing this thread, as a service (I *hope*) to all you developers.
I first did a search here on the boards for "scams", because I wanted to find a place on this site to DISPLAY CLEARLY---> Here is a scamsite --> make sure your stuff is not being sold there. That's when I saw this sampling of threads, below, and had to wonder, is there a policy here that is clear and easy to find (NO! not that I can see!) that helps developers here by giving us end-users a place to post the hit-list of scammers on ebay, on iphonetheme websites, etc. ?
If so, I missed it in the information design here. If not, I recommend it. I know it burns you guys who are being ripped off -- but it also ticks off less-sophisticated community members like me (end-users of your hard work) to see your works exploited -- given especially their innovation and performance tweeks.
Here are just a few of the threads I found from this year, from March 08, where people reported being ripped off by people selling their works. In my view, I don't think that's enough or sufficient to just have someone start a thread saying "beware of X, Y or Z". And that's why I posted this. Thanks to all of you who make the lives of end-users more productive with your great work.
q/s
Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material
Bastards selling my Unlocker
Thief On The Loose At Hofo and possibly xda!
wow.. no reply. well i know i'm verbose, but i thought this would at least get a reply that explained yes/no if the site has designated a specific area to broadcast who are the current scammers operating out on he internets...
Should I be posting this into a different forum? if so, which one please/ thanks
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
alongenemylines said:
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
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There have been instances where its come to the attention of the community here and the developers of ROMS and programs that their work is being packaged and sold on ebay and the like. Obviously this behavior is viewed very negatively. While there is no policy or "organized" efforts to monitor and react, when someone does point out an instance, the community members rally around and do what they can to call the guy out, and warn potential scammees of it. Ebay is often notified directly, and also comments on the sellers postings on ebay are made to warn.
And yes, your post is verbose
There are Children out there that are dieing,
and we need to help them.
You might be thinking... "Its Not worth my time",
but i am going to give you
REQUESTED APPS, GAMES, AND THEMES in return.
----------------------------------------------------
Please Visit www.WorldVision.org To learn more about These Children
----------------------------------------------------
How it works:
You Send a Donation to My paypal account
Once enough money is raised, i will send the money to WorldVision
Then, you send me a PM Or a Email Saying that you sent money.
I will respond asking you What Program You Want me to Build.
Within a Week, you'll have your dream Download Built.
-----------------------------------------------------
Click the Paypal Picture to Send a Donation
Donators:
Your Name here
Your Name here
Your Name here
Your Name here
Your Name here
Your Name here
Your Name here
what's this have to do with the xda forum, htc, development & hacking?
I make custom programs, = Development...
DhaMajoR said:
I make custom programs, = Development...
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Good cause I'll donate.
you might want to put some restrictions.. cuz im guessing you wont be able to develop anything anyone thinks up (like a new dialer, new contact manager etc etc all at once (i dont know if yur capable but even if you are.. you wont be doing much else but developing for months haha))
its a very noble cause though! great idea and i love where your heart is
I hope i dont get any Crazy Requests, but i hope to Get some money in, Thanks.
htctoucher said:
you might want to put some restrictions.. cuz im guessing you wont be able to develop anything anyone thinks up (like a new dialer, new contact manager etc etc all at once (i dont know if yur capable but even if you are.. you wont be doing much else but developing for months haha))
its a very noble cause though! great idea and i love where your heart is
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Yea I agree I just donated and I was thinking of m request and it might take a while
Jokesonyou, did you donate on paypal?
DhaMajoR said:
Jokesonyou, did you donate on paypal?
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Yes sir a 20 USD donation
Jokes On You said:
Yes sir a 20 USD donation
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make sure it was sent out to [email protected], because for some reason, i have the same Balance... $130 Usd. Starange.
EDIT: Thank you Octavia Lopez, for your Donation.
galaxys said:
what's this have to do with the xda forum, htc, development & hacking?
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Agree
Same question here
What is going to make if all here is for free?
This forum is not for making money, is for sahreing knowledge, help others and enjoy the FREE ROM´s and apps from the real Devs.
If I´m donating will be to this site!
Welcome to xda-developers.com
This site is about certain PDA-phones, made by a firm called HTC in Taiwan. Their makers named them 'Wallaby', 'Himalaya', 'Blue Angel', 'Wizard' and 'TyTN', but almost nobody knows them by those names. The mobile provider O2 sells them under the brand-name 'XDA', and that's what we had in our hands first. They're also known as Qtek, MDA, SX-56, Hermes and many, many other names.
Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
We hope that you will enjoy this site and find it as useful as we do. We encourage you to donate or otherwise support this site. Of course absolutely all proceeds from donations will benefit this community.
orb3000 said:
Agree
Same question here
What is going to make if all here is for free?
This forum is not for making money, is for sahreing knowledge, help others and enjoy the FREE ROM´s and apps from the real Devs.
If I´m donating will be to this site!
Welcome to xda-developers.com
This site is about certain PDA-phones, made by a firm called HTC in Taiwan. Their makers named them 'Wallaby', 'Himalaya', 'Blue Angel', 'Wizard' and 'TyTN', but almost nobody knows them by those names. The mobile provider O2 sells them under the brand-name 'XDA', and that's what we had in our hands first. They're also known as Qtek, MDA, SX-56, Hermes and many, many other names.
Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
We hope that you will enjoy this site and find it as useful as we do. We encourage you to donate or otherwise support this site. Of course absolutely all proceeds from donations will benefit this community.
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Okay sorry
DhaMajoR said:
Wana Be MOD
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Show more respect or you´ll get banned newbie
Learn and respect the rules
orb3000 said:
Wana be somebody
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Okay orb300
orb3000 said:
Show more respect or you´ll get banned newbie
Learn the rules and then you can be somebody
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Thats mean.
MOD BREAK
please show respect for each other in this forum.....be nice!
thank you and have a nice weekend.
Liam
Who says that you'll really give the money to WorldVision? And who says that you'll actually develop the application? ...
DHA Major,
This seems like a very good idea, ie people donate to a worthy cause and they get a development back via you. You have several problems to overcome though to make this happen:
1) Credibility - people need to be convinved of your technical abilities and your ability to deliver.
2) Honest - you already have someone questioning whether the money will go to the cause. Not sure how you address this.
3) Apathy - Sadly a lot of people enjoy having things for free while not making any form of financial contribution. If you look through some of the threads on here from a while back you will see that some even demand things get developed and delivered even though developers are given their time, effort and technical abilities for free (search through some of the Schaps threads on XDA to see what I mean).
It might be a good start for you to develop and release an application for us to see what you can do (sorry, I have not been on here for a while so if you have already developed and released an app on here without me seeing it then that's great). Once that is in place then you need to find some way of ensuring that people donate and that there is evidence that the donations are heading off to the charity as expected.
I applaud your idea; just not sure how you get around some of the problems highlighted above.
Good luck.
WB
Howdy, the name's Mike. I've got an idea for a comics app that I think has legs. I want to release it for the Android Market, but I'm a graphic designer and I'm absolutely useless when it comes to code. The App Inventor isn't robust enough for my needs. So, I need to hire someone who can take my graphics, concepts and instructions and make it into a real app.
I'm planning this as a commercial application (~1.99/free with ads), so you will be paid well for your work. Preference will be given to developers who can code for multiple platforms (Android/iOS/WP7), have proven development and Android Market experience, enjoy internet comics, and who can meet in person in north Texas.
I've been lurking on XDA since I got my HTC Touch three years ago, and I can't think of anywhere else I'd like to start looking for talented developers. I supply the ideas, the capital and the interface. You supply the rest. Let's make an app. Email me at aggie20x at gmail dot com to get the ball rolling.
[Mods: If this post violates XDA rules, please take it down and email me to let me seek alternatives. I don't want to make any trouble.]
I was wondering a similar thing, but a search doesn't give much.
I didn't want to make a new post, I'm surprised there wasn't a long list of devs for hire already
Please post here if you might be available. I have a rather simple app request.
AndyCr15 said:
I was wondering a similar thing, but a search doesn't give much.
I didn't want to make a new post, I'm surprised there wasn't a long list of devs for hire already
Please post here if you might be available. I have a rather simple app request.
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Let's hear it.
Basically I just want an app for my site (see sig below) which will give the posts in a list, have a tab for comments and a tab for videos (from our YouTube channel).
My idea was it would be a way for people to say thanks (I would charge 99p for it) and it would maybe help fund further progress of the site...
wow i carnt post about the jig offer because they at xda keep deleting my threads whats that all about then, and whats the differance with donate and selling c**p. Just because i send it via a package they say no selling, what is donate then, selling or donating your services.:
The donation must be voluntary.
Also this should be in the General section.
Well.. In my case:
I provide Voltage Control application for free;
however some volunteers donated money to me voluntarily, making voluntary donation
Donation is like: you can get the product, no matter if you pay or not.
Selling is like: you can get the product, but you MUST pay for it sooner or later.
Hope it is all clear now
Why not "send" ppl a jig only if they "donate"
Fyi this should go in general.
I can understand where you are coming from. You are just trying to help out the community. If you are selling for a profit, then it is taboo in this forum, and go against the very essence of the spirit of Xda.
Ask yourself this, if you are the one, will you allow this?
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
If this about the usb jig to force a dead sgs into download the idea method and all details are already given freely here. He is only selling it to those who cant wont not able to do it on their own. I think he needs to mention this.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Simple question. If i donated a penny then would you send me a jig? If not then there is clearly a set price which classes it as a sale.
Sent From My GalaxyS Iphone Killer
Thats pretty sad - if you can publish a cost breakdown to show that you are not doing this for profit but to help the community, they SHOULD NOT remove it. Sometimes people cant wrap their head around a rule to make exceptions. On the other hand - we'd be swamped by ebay vendors "making screen protectors for the community". I think your project is an exception and has to be treated as such.
SkinBobUk said:
Simple question. If i donated a penny then would you send me a jig? If not then there is clearly a set price which classes it as a sale.
Sent From My GalaxyS Iphone Killer
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You see.. unlike software which is "made once and distributable unlimitedly", he has to make 1 FOR you. If he is kind enough to volunteer his services- you can chose to donate for that or not. But to have him cough up for the cost of material and postage - its ridiculous.
Although this is in the wrong section, I do have to agree that he should certainly be allowed to charge a minimum price for it. The components that make up this jig cost him money, he should be able to charge exactly the same price (plus shipping). In this example, he would have freely volunteered his time to build the jig. So users should then be able to donate money to help compensate him for his time, on-top of this minimum price (if they wish).
However in saying that I think some members of this community has the wrong idea in general. Everything doesn't need to be free and generally should not be free. A good community should want to compensate other members of the same community who have helped out the community as whole. The issue is simply that it's not always practical to charge a fee. Even if a community member wants to compensate someone else for their efforts, it's not always possible or practical. There should be no such situation where someone who has been helped doesn't wish to express the basic human concept of gratitude. Money is not always practical, but in the case of a good community some sort of thanks should always be in order. Gratitude is a form of currency also, especially now that XDA has a thanks button.
Benjamin Dobell said:
Although this is in the wrong section, I do have to agree that he should certainly be allowed to charge a minimum price for it. The components that make up this jig cost him money, he should be able to charge exactly the same price (plus shipping). In this example, he would have freely volunteered his time to build the jig. So users should then be able to donate money to help compensate him for his time, on-top of this minimum price (if they wish).
However in saying that I think some members of this community has the wrong idea in general. Everything doesn't need to be free and generally should not be free. A good community should want to compensate other members of the same community who have helped out the community as whole. The issue is simply that it's not always practical to charge a fee. Even if a community member wants to compensate someone else for their efforts, it's not always possible or practical. There should be no such situation where someone who has been helped doesn't wish to express the basic human concept of gratitude. Money is not always practical, but in the case of a good community some sort of thanks should always be in order. Gratitude is a form of currency also, especially now that XDA has a thanks button.
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Exactly. I agree - and i dont see the same vehemence in people encouraging donations to the devels who work so hard that i see in people protesting against soliciting money.
ragin said:
If this about the usb jig to force a dead sgs into download the idea method and all details are already given freely here. He is only selling it to those who cant wont not able to do it on their own. I think he needs to mention this.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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SkinBobUk said:
Simple question. If i donated a penny then would you send me a jig? If not then there is clearly a set price which classes it as a sale.
Sent From My GalaxyS Iphone Killer
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ashwinds said:
Thats pretty sad - if you can publish a cost breakdown to show that you are not doing this for profit but to help the community, they SHOULD NOT remove it. Sometimes people cant wrap their head around a rule to make exceptions. On the other hand - we'd be swamped by ebay vendors "making screen protectors for the community". I think your project is an exception and has to be treated as such.
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ashwinds said:
You see.. unlike software which is "made once and distributable unlimitedly", he has to make 1 FOR you. If he is kind enough to volunteer his services- you can chose to donate for that or not. But to have him cough up for the cost of material and postage - its ridiculous.
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ok thanks for all replys, origionally i sent an email to xda asking them if i could have a sticky and every sale i would give xda 50p donation which also gives them some support. was i wrong.
As 1 of the readers posted, the parts do cost. At the moment it is quite hard to find the micro USB plugs which are costing roughly between £1.50 and £2.50 locally. The resisters work out at 42p each and there are 2 of them. 1 is a 300k and the other is a 1k. Also the heat sinc tubing is costing about 20p per plug. Then there is the solder, the electric, petrol to fetch the items and finally the postage that works at £1.00. Therefore the is no profit, not to mention that my time to make them is FREE.
All I wanted to do is to support XDA with a donation of 50p for every one sold and help people with illness or bad eyesight or just not the ability to recover their phones with out having to send it back to the service department because of a lack of knowledge in electronics.
P.S. Selecting the wrong pins on the plugs when soldering could potentially wreck your phone and I think it is really courageous of people with no electronic experience to try and do this.
Thanks for all you replys and support. Let's hope XDA support this and give people the chance to support XDA with their donation.
i also believe that because this site is very public and people are free to download the roms it all sounds very easy and things can and will go wrong from time to time.
lets have a safety net.
Right mate. What I suggest you do is put them on ebay and say these are cool on xda, or post them in xdamarketplace. And quit moaning.
HazzBazz said:
Right mate. What I suggest you do is put them on ebay and say these are cool on xda, or post them in xdamarketplace. And quit moaning.
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who's moaning, i realy dont mind putting them out somewhere else, just trying to put a safety net in the same place as the roms. But do other people think there should be this option.
and why do you care anyway who am i to you.
Although I dont know about whole issue, so just posting based upon info in this thread
Your point is totally valid, but the way you presented it might have been wrong.
You could have proceeded like this
I am giving solution of so and so problem... here are steps
All the steps in details with components required...
With usual warning : Try at your own risk
Those who are unwilling to take risk/lack skills could have asked you to assemble components and mail it by paying cost of components + postage
People happy with service/willing to support you could have Voluntary donated......
ok what i have asked xda is, if people send me the parts with a return envolope i will assemble it and then return it, with donations wecome if you like my work.
this is a free service with no commitment to give me anything.
thechamp007 said:
Although I dont know about whole issue, so just posting based upon info in this thread
Your point is totally valid, but the way you presented it might have been wrong.
You could have proceeded like this
I am giving solution of so and so problem... here are steps
All the steps in details with components required...
With usual warning : Try at your own risk
Those who are unwilling to take risk/lack skills could have asked you to assemble components and mail it by paying cost of components + postage
People happy with service/willing to support you could have Voluntary donated......
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great minds think alike
I've got a better idea.
I don't know how much your selling these for but lets just say £5
I think you should charge £7.50
The £2.50 is a donation to XDA developers to continue running the site, and then you cover your costs.
Personally speaking, I could get these manufactured in bulk for peanuts if you wanted just PM me and i'll do the work - they will be coming from China though...
Hi,
I'm most of the time lurking in the background here; looking how I can tweak my SGS. I'm impressed by the skills displayed and always eager to try something new.
So I want to thank a developer or team by means of a HotFile-account. I have no idea who has plenty hosting and who could use some, nor do I know any specific developer, so I'm just asking:
Who could put a 600GB/5 month hotfile-account to good use?
Just drop your motivation in the comments... (e.g. specify what you are going to share)
if I see someone fit, I will PM that person the account details for hotfile and mention in this thread who got it.
Note: It's just one account, I'm not handing out more.
Nice sentiment, not sure how many devs will see your kind offer though.