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I'm brand new here but felt that I had to comment as some here seem to be close to hari kiri (sic) over some reviews.
I do feel that the screen will be a little low on colour saturation but it's by no means terrible - and the adjustment options included in the final software should fix this. But what I really want to talk about is the camera.
Phonearena have been especially vocal about how the camera doesn't match up to the competition but I'm absolutely amazed that they've missed a glaring error in their analysis! Because of the boost in mp's and the different focal lengths of each phone, when they're doing a 100% crop comparison, they're clearly zooming in much, much further on the XZ. I don't think it's intentional but if you look at the crops they give, the difference is clear. The XZ i
Now I'm not saying that Sony haven't been a little heavy handed in their compression - they have. BUT if you zoom in comparison shots to the SAME CROP the difference is far less pronounced than some would have you believe. Indeed, if you zoomed in the other shots to the same depth as the XZ zoom they would become a mess of pixels - better defined pixels, sure, but no more usable for it.
Is the camera on the XZ blowing me away? I dunno, I'll put it to the test when I get it. But don't write it off based on comparissons with other phones unless you do the tests yourselves because phonearena have done a half-assed job, frankly.
Your thoughts below, please.
Great observation. I do see the compression as a necessary, temporary downside to putting a 13mp camera on a smartphone. They're probably working on keeping the responsiveness up first; hopefully the compression will get better through software updates.
That Phonearena review was biased.... i tell u why....:
1. They ranked devices on every domain and listed lumia 920 and XZ with least ranking however ... where these two stood out to be better than others ... they skipped raking quite cleverly.
2. They even ranked Lumia 920 and XZ in night mode as bad shooters LOL at them... everybody knows the truth.
3. They even placed 1-2 cheeky discouraging lines in low light mode review about XZ.
4. In Detail they ranked XZ last. that was a big fail even their own pics that were taken... small boards really far away were much readable on XZ than others.
5. They always used superior auto mode in XZ but used manual settings in others..... obviously XZ will be confused in special conditions like a well lit building at night and surrounding trees which are not much in light... use manual settings there and i m sure XZ will tear others apart.
nikhiltanwar said:
That Phonearena review was biased.... i tell u why....:
1. They ranked devices on every domain and listed lumia 920 and XZ with least ranking however ... where these two stood out to be better than others ... they skipped raking quite cleverly.
2. They even ranked Lumia 920 and XZ in night mode as bad shooters LOL at them... everybody knows the truth.
3. They even placed 1-2 cheeky discouraging lines in low light mode review about XZ.
4. In Detail they ranked XZ last. that was a big fail even their own pics that were taken... small boards really far away were much readable on XZ than others.
5. They always used superior auto mode in XZ but used manual settings in others..... obviously XZ will be confused in special conditions like a well lit building at night and surrounding trees which are not much in light... use manual settings there and i m sure XZ will tear others apart.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure but I think they would get better results with superior auto. I think PA did not use superior auto.
I think we shoul wait for more precise reviews like the GSMarena one which is by far, one of the best out there.
But I won't be surprise if the XZ's camera won't match nowadays' best 8 MP standards, Sony has been trailing behind for quite some time now in the Photo department.
yeah that comparison doesn't make any sense both Samsungs where over exposed for most of the photos, big difference in iso use etc etc. clearly done by someone who doesn't know anything about photography
I don't take PA reviews very seriously - specially when it comes to cameras. Somehow they find samsung cameras pretty good which is very questionable - I think. I've owned all three samsung galaxy phones. GS1 camera was horrible, GS2 was average and GS3 is also average. HOX has a better camera, Xperia T is better than both.Xperia Z should be even better. And I don't take pictures with lousy auto mode.
PA reviews are usually good except for the camera part - they simply don't understand photography. If you read their comparison, you can just tell that it was written by a noob.
What i don't understand is the photos posted by someone here on Google+ definitely looks good.
check these out:
plus.google.com/
photos/110267829736715997848/
albums/5843542135386591041/5843542150197706866?banner=pwa
At first, I thought the photos above are not from XZ. They are really clear, sharp, and vibrant. I don't see noise in them.
They are miles better than what PA and other sites are posting. How could this happen? Different software or versions?
Humandroidz said:
What i don't understand is the photos posted by someone here on Google+ definitely looks good.
check these out:
plus.google.com/
photos/110267829736715997848/
albums/5843542135386591041/5843542150197706866?banner=pwa
At first, I thought the photos above are not from XZ. They are really clear, sharp, and vibrant. I don't see noise in them.
They are miles better than what PA and other sites are posting. How could this happen? Different software or versions?
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I have analysed these images... On a bigger screen ..with zoomed in depth... They look good surely... That is why PA have lost it....
---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------
Humandroidz said:
I'm not sure but I think they would get better results with superior auto. I think PA did not use superior auto.
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They used superior auto... In some domains they even wrote it... Never used HDR .... I think superior auto was in most situations... So.many times this superior auto mode gets things wrong... It should be used when u r super noob in photography.... Not in a picture comparison
seen that review and i can say it is a total bias.
rufaz said:
seen that review and i can say it is a total bias.
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That's a common opinion about Phonearena's reviews. Many reviews were considered biased, with results that nobody is able to replicate etc. I wouldn't pay much attention to it - no matter if it's positive or negative.
schecter7 said:
I don't take PA reviews very seriously - specially when it comes to cameras. Somehow they find samsung cameras pretty good which is very questionable - I think. I've owned all three samsung galaxy phones. GS1 camera was horrible, GS2 was average and GS3 is also average. HOX has a better camera, Xperia T is better than both.Xperia Z should be even better. And I don't take pictures with lousy auto mode.
PA reviews are usually good except for the camera part - they simply don't understand photography. If you read their comparison, you can just tell that it was written by a noob.
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I thought I was the only one who shared this view seeing as last year I had the Xperia S & T, S3 & N2 and HOX and for starters I believe Iphone arena claimed the camera on the HOX and Xperia T were mediocre compared with S3 (N2 has same camera as S3 anyway). That was total B.S The camera on the T and HOX and even Xperia S were far better than the samsung cameras both outdoors and indoors and at night, especially indoors with lighting where the S3/N2 cameras became washed out and I tested the camera's vs eachother same angles etc and the samsung cameras were the worst.
I have also compared the camera on the lumia 920 vs s3/N2 in shops and the lumia 920 looks better.
Even looking at the images IPA have done with the Z the images look great.
Its hard to believe all those reviews... Who even knows whether they are giving us true/genuine pictures- its upto the eidtor/reviewer to give us genuine review. Not even their webmaster will know it whether they are genuine.. There were plenty of crtitcism from reader about engagdet's news articles of apple products once... Some times its very clear in the writing the bias towards non-apple news. Who knows they have been receiving goodies and bucks... I was in straight fire @ one ZNet writer after reading his apple article- he wrote like not even a hardcore apple fan wont writer against android phones- blindly.... They all in US... we donno the truth...
I donno much about phonearena... Also i'm not going to expect much from a tiny smartphone sensor whether its 13mp or 44mp... You have to understand the camera sensors first... As the sensor becomes small in size the light goes thru it also less , hence the picture qaulity... Still the best quality sensor gives best results... In smartphone case the photographer has to be very careful and still as much as the object to get nice photos... Image stabilization is there , but its nowhere near of DSLR or other proper cameras.... So each time you take a picture its different although same object , same angle or whatever you can imagine there.... Competition in smartphone arena is to make thinnest phone... as the phone goes thinner camera sensor goes smaller(thinner) too.. otherwise you will see a bump where camera sits (like in pureview).....
gd
I just switched to TMobile yesterday and I got the LG G2. I am highly disappointed with the camera, specially the low light. I love taking photos on my cell (before this I had a Lumia 1020 which replaced my HTC One which replaced my S3) and the low light just didn't cut it.
The Z1s comes to tmobile in a week so I'm thinking of swapping it out for that. The thing is, I've heard so many mixed reviews about the Z1 and it's camera. I would love to have opinions from you all that own it. If you can compare the photos to any other phone that would be great. I was actually debating between the LG G2 and Note III and Z1, but I really think the Z1 (specs wise) might be the closest to the Lumia 1020 (which is the best smartphone camera I have EVER used....too bad it was on WP8)
Thank you in advance!
Rob
The Z1 camera is infuriating to use because it's obvious that the hardware is a beast. It's the best camera hardware you can get on an Android device. However, the software is a hit or miss. Superior auto is okay for daylight pictures but is almost unusable for lowlight pictures. However, if you take a bit of time to learn how to use the camera in manual, you will have no problem getting excellent images from the Z1. Lowlight performance is decent, better than the LG G2 but worse than the HTC One, it's just you cannot rely on Superior Auto mode to get you the best pics, usually they end up very noisy.
In daylight there is no contest, the Z1 is one of the best out there. 90% of the time Superior auto does the job well. The other 10% of time there is overexposure or noise but then you can use manual or try again and it should come out okay. Low light is tricky.
If you want a camera that 'just works' I would suggest looking at the HTC One or LG G2. However, if you are willing to spend a bit of time to explore the camera's features and functions you will love the Z1. It's definitely the most fun camera phone to use. Don't get me wrong, it's not 'bad', it's just not as good as it could be. Also, the viewfinder is one of the smoothest I've used. 60fps of awesome.
The thing about the Z1 is that is one of the best 'allround' phones. You get a premium feeling, waterproof body with the fastest processor available and an extremely good camera. There's almost nothing like it. The iPhone 5S and HTC One are probably the only other ones that can compete with the all-roundedness. The LG G2 is really good as well but IMO has a horrible, cheap looking and feeling body. For me looks matter as much as the internals because I have the phone on me at all times and is a part of me, so I want it to reflect who I am. The Z1's sharp looks do just that .
Hopefully KitKat will stabilize superior auto and make it better because it's infuriating having poor software when you have unbeatable hardware.
I will have to say that while the Camera software disappoints it really isn't that bad at all..
As far as low light pics are concerned, for me superior auto does the job well enough..and of course low light photos have the element of noise as on any camera phone but don't let it bother you too much. You will just have to compare for yourself lowlight photos between the G2 and the Z1 to see if its up to your expectations.
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
robamacaf said:
I just switched to TMobile yesterday and I got the LG G2. I am highly disappointed with the camera, specially the low light. I love taking photos on my cell (before this I had a Lumia 1020 which replaced my HTC One which replaced my S3) and the low light just didn't cut it.
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Click to collapse
The night sky shot you took with the 1020 has a shutter delay of 4s.
Z1 has a max shutter delay in night mode of 0.8s. This is the best you have currently with android. Also the Z1 has a 2.0 aperture to the 1020's 2.2. So about 25% larger.
bear in mind the nokia's can go as slow as 4s shutter delay because WP8 allows it. So even mid range WP8 phones with nokia camera app can get the 4s shutter delay. Android at this time does not even if the hardware can support it. I see no reason why this cannot be done in the future with android if mid range WP8 phones presently allow such low shutter delay. It's an OS limitation. Another limitation with android is its not possible to manually set shutter speed or do any manual focus unlike with WP8. This limits to a certain extent or makes it harder than it would have been been with say Nokia camera.
Whereas the slowest shutter delay with the G2, note3, N5 or S4 is around 1/8s (6x faster than 0.8). What they then do is take a HDR. They cheat. This means a relatively stable hand held low light shot but if an even slower shutter speed is required then you cannot do it. Has the low light video improved on the G2 since ? as the video from examples i'd seen earlier was mostly not usable.
i have a g2, ordered z1s, z1s is beatiful phone, liked the screen and mostly everything, little snapier then g2, for some reason z1s felt a little big, battery life i was not impressed, on the first charge, 15 min screen time and down 6%, comparing to g2 where you will loose 2% tops, great phone but going back to g2, will wait for somerhing else with better cam then g2
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
One Twelve said:
Another limitation with android is its not possible to manually set shutter speed or do any manual focus unlike with WP8. This limits to a certain extent or makes it harder than it would have been been with say Nokia camera.
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Just as a side note, the LG G2 DOES have manual focus where you can move a slider (sorta like the 1020) to focus on things.
Thank you all for the opinions. I'll have to get hands on with it I think to really get a feel for it but I'm really leaning towards it. I'd get the HTC One again in a heartbeat if it had higher MP to actually have details in the photos
Check out this video mate:
The pictures were taken on the initial software release, the software has slightly improved since then but it should gives you a good idea on how well the camera perfomes.
shem2409 said:
Check out this video mate:
The pictures were taken on the initial software release, the software has slightly improved since then but it should gives you a good idea on how well the camera perfomes.
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Thanks for this. You put a lot of info into that video. I also watched the 3 min one you made with mostly low light pictures. Looks like the Z1 is def worth getting
robamacaf said:
Thanks for this. You put a lot of info into that video. I also watched the 3 min one you made with mostly low light pictures. Looks like the Z1 is def worth getting
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I absolutely love it
I only wish the screen was better. It's not bad by any means but due to poor viewing angles the experience is not on par with other devices (oppo find 5 etc)
universal
robamacaf said:
I just switched to TMobile yesterday and I got the LG G2. I am highly disappointed with the camera, specially the low light. I love taking photos on my cell (before this I had a Lumia 1020 which replaced my HTC One which replaced my S3) and the low light just didn't cut it.
The Z1s comes to tmobile in a week so I'm thinking of swapping it out for that. The thing is, I've heard so many mixed reviews about the Z1 and it's camera. I would love to have opinions from you all that own it. If you can compare the photos to any other phone that would be great. I was actually debating between the LG G2 and Note III and Z1, but I really think the Z1 (specs wise) might be the closest to the Lumia 1020 (which is the best smartphone camera I have EVER used....too bad it was on WP8)
Thank you in advance!
Rob
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a G2 and while I liked it I decided to not keep it. Just got my Z1s on Monday and was very impressed with the handful of shots I took, and find I like the Z1s all-around more than I did the G2: better design, better android skin, better battery life & performance (and the G2 was no slouch in either of those two areas), and at least based on first impressions better camera.
I am exchanging my Z1s because of some difficulty getting it to acknowledge long press while holding the phone (started a thread on that), but other than that was very happy with it and am looking forward to getting my replacement.
Any opinions on the battery life? I know the G2 and Z1 and the same sized battery and so far I've had the G2 off of charger for 6 hours and it's only at 91%. I've made some phone calls, checked emails, sent hangout messages through out the day. Connected to WIFI and 4G. It's fantastic
Battery life is not G2 good but it's still excellent. I usually get 6-8 hours screentime on, which is much better than most phones out there.
Tough decision for me, sell my G2 and payoff my EIP or keep it and sell the Z1S and profit a bit and wait for something else.
Sent from my LG-D801 using xda app-developers app
robamacaf said:
I just switched to TMobile yesterday and I got the LG G2. I am highly disappointed with the camera, specially the low light. I love taking photos on my cell (before this I had a Lumia 1020 which replaced my HTC One which replaced my S3) and the low light just didn't cut it.
The Z1s comes to tmobile in a week so I'm thinking of swapping it out for that. The thing is, I've heard so many mixed reviews about the Z1 and it's camera. I would love to have opinions from you all that own it. If you can compare the photos to any other phone that would be great. I was actually debating between the LG G2 and Note III and Z1, but I really think the Z1 (specs wise) might be the closest to the Lumia 1020 (which is the best smartphone camera I have EVER used....too bad it was on WP8)
Thank you in advance!
Rob
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Click to collapse
Check My Low light photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157637726566185/
you will also find Htc One set and Comparison Set between note3 vs z1
Me also swapped the htc one with the z1
reason: Purple tint camera and very long time focusing during night and mostly out of focus
how do i compare : Z1 blew away Htc faster lock never out of focus and Better lowlight
you can see in the sets both taken with htc and z1 ... Just to mention i never used Superior Auto i always use manual @all auto .. except if i want to capture a night landscape or scene with longer exposure i choose Night Mode from scenes and rest my arm on somethings
by the way
note3 camera at night it [email protected] !
ashouhdy said:
Check My Low light photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157637726566185/
you will also find Htc One set and Comparison Set between note3 vs z1
Me also swapped the htc one with the z1
reason: Purple tint camera and very long time focusing during night and mostly out of focus
how do i compare : Z1 blew away Htc faster lock never out of focus and Better lowlight
you can see in the sets both taken with htc and z1 ... Just to mention i never used Superior Auto i always use manual @all auto .. except if i want to capture a night landscape or scene with longer exposure i choose Night Mode from scenes and rest my arm on somethings
by the way
note3 camera at night it [email protected] !
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Wow! Those are fantastic! Thank you
I've had a play with a G2 and it's a cracking handset, but not a patch on the Z1 in terms of the on screen user experience, the LG skin looks too much like Touchwiz, which is hideous. The camera rocks, all round anyway, no phone camera I've ever come across actually performs perfectly, but the Z1 comes close.
robamacaf said:
I just switched to TMobile yesterday and I got the LG G2. I am highly disappointed with the camera, specially the low light. I love taking photos on my cell (before this I had a Lumia 1020 which replaced my HTC One which replaced my S3) and the low light just didn't cut it.
The Z1s comes to tmobile in a week so I'm thinking of swapping it out for that. The thing is, I've heard so many mixed reviews about the Z1 and it's camera. I would love to have opinions from you all that own it. If you can compare the photos to any other phone that would be great. I was actually debating between the LG G2 and Note III and Z1, but I really think the Z1 (specs wise) might be the closest to the Lumia 1020 (which is the best smartphone camera I have EVER used....too bad it was on WP8)
Thank you in advance!
Rob
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Z1 is really the best camera in an Android phone. The flash sucks, specially compared to the 1020's (and the 808's, still the best camera phone by a huge margin) xenon, of course; but it's bad for a LED. However, its low light, non-flash performance is way above the rest of the pack. More comparable to the 1020's non-flash pics than to the G2's. You will also have the benefit of some lossless zoom. As a camera, it's definitely an upgrade over the S3/One/G2, and a clear downgrade all around from the 1020.
This is an interesting comparison of the Z1 with Nokia's last few cameraphones:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/18845_Smartphone_camera_shootout_the.php
Note that no non-Nokia phone had ever beaten the N8 on that site. But I'd suggest you to rate the pictures by yourself. Assign points to each, then assign a factor of importance to each category, and sum up the scores (multiplied by the importance of each category). You may come to a different conclusion than Steve.
Another interesting data point is this:
http://connect.dpreview.com/post/44...1-vs-nokia1020-vs-lgg2-vs-samsunggalaxys4zoom
Which includes a direct comparison between the Z1 and your previous two phones. I suggest the same approach, assigning your own scores and importances to come to your own conclusion.
Sorry to hijack the topic here but how does z1's camera compare to iPhone 5s' then? I was under the impression z1's was better even before the FW updates but after reading this thread I am not so sure..
fmmsf said:
Sorry to hijack the topic here but how does z1's camera compare to iPhone 5s' then? I was under the impression z1's was better even before the FW updates but after reading this thread I am not so sure..
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Yes, it's WAY better. I don't have the shots with me, but when we went on vacations, my Z1's pictures were always better than my wife's 5S's. The Z1 focuses better (and faster), isn't as noisy, and exposes much better on low light. Also, the 5S has an annoying tendency of keeping the flash on for 1-2 seconds while it focuses, while the Z1 does it way faster; that much time with the LED on makes the subjects uncomfortable, and spoils the images. Whenever we took pictures of the same scene on both phones, mine were better (so much better that most of hers were instantly deleted). I usually don't shoot videos, so I can't comment on video quality.
Steve_max said:
Yes, it's WAY better. I don't have the shots with me, but when we went on vacations, my Z1's pictures were always better than my wife's 5S's. The Z1 focuses better (and faster), isn't as noisy, and exposes much better on low light. Also, the 5S has an annoying tendency of keeping the flash on for 1-2 seconds while it focuses, while the Z1 does it way faster; that much time with the LED on makes the subjects uncomfortable, and spoils the images. Whenever we took pictures of the same scene on both phones, mine were better (so much better that most of hers were instantly deleted). I usually don't shoot videos, so I can't comment on video quality.
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Click to collapse
Ah, that's awesome! And how long does it take for the phone to bring up the camera app after you press the shutter button on the Z1? (That's a feature, right?)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Hi,
Someone that had the lg g2 can say advantages or disadvantages of the camera xperia z3 compact with the lg g2 camera (shutter speed, focus video....)
Thanks and sorry for my English!
G2 camera is much more bad. Focus speed on Z3 is much faster. I didn't have time to check video focus. Images in low light conditions are also much better. Didn't have any blurred photo, out of 50.
Send from Xperia Z3 Compact
Melodycd said:
G2 camera is much more bad. Focus speed on Z3 is much faster. I didn't have time to check video focus. Images in low light conditions are also much better. Didn't have any blurred photo, out of 50.
Send from Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
G2 stock cam is super suck, you will need to use Jishnu's G2 mod cam and the different is day and night. BTW, the focus speed should be improved on 4.4 on G2.
I use last g3 port with xdabbeb's camera. It doesn't help.
Send from Xperia Z3 Compact
so, what about with the g3?
i just sold my g3 and ordered one of these. i hope the cam is at least on par. from sample photos, it seems the iphone 6 camera is a decent amount better than the z3, unfortunately, so i won't even go there
tofu- said:
it seems the iphone 6 camera is a decent amount better than the z3, unfortunately, so i won't even go there
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Click to collapse
Where did you hear that?? http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=1&idPhone1=6378&idPhone2=6538&idPhone3=5543
According to GSM Arena, also Galaxy Alpha has better camera. But there are different tests on the Internet from credible sources that show that Z3C is in fact better.
Jonous said:
Where did you hear that?? http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=1&idPhone1=6378&idPhone2=6538&idPhone3=5543
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just my own (probably incorrect) opinion judging from comparison photos i've seen
tofu- said:
just my own (probably incorrect) opinion judging from comparison photos i've seen
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Click to collapse
Ofcourse simple sample comparison is not the whole story, you have focus speed, stabilization plays a huge part especially in low light, features like manual exposure setttings etc. I just emphasized on picture quality but there's more to it to compare. But most of our quality perception on these flagships with great cameras comes mainly from pixel peeping We pinch to zoom and find deifferences that in real world they are most of the times indiscernible. At least for daylight pics, in evening/night shots you can spot differences between phones more easily.
I'll post the same here as I did on the Z3 forum:
I must say that i'm a little disappointed with the camera. I've just being comparing it (I have the Z3 compact actually) to the LG G2. While the Z3 takes the shots far faster and is faster to focus (my G2 has xdabbeb's mod), the G2's detail is far superior unless you play with the settings on the Z3. Even after I've played with the settings, the G2's 13MP shots are better.
I'm purely talking 1:1 zoom here, when zoomed out they're as good as each other. Ultimately i'm after a camera that I can take shots of the kids (who move!) in relatively low light so the Z3 is best for me.
I know this is 'just' a smartphone camera and not a DSLR but i think it's fair to be disappointed when comparing the latest and greatest (and Sony themselves believe their camera is 'the best' and market it as such) to a 12 - 18 month old camera (with a very scratched lens!)
I'm happy to post comparison shots if required, but i believe this thread is meant to be a showcase, not a z3-bashing...!
We all give Sony a hard time for releasing flagship devices with mediocre camera performance. I personally can verify that my previous HTC phones (One mini, One S, and even the Ville aka MyTouch 4G) dating back nearly 4 years all had better color reproduction, white balance, indoor performance, and faster focus and shutter response. None of those were even considered flagship devices at the time of release. We assumed Sony's problem was the software, so many of us searched for 3rd party camera apps such as Google Camera, A Better Camera, Camera FV-5, etc... and some even claimed to get better results using these apps. I've tried just about all of them (free versions only) and never saw any dramatic improvement to make me replace the default camera app. I finally decided to compare shots side by side on a couple of my personal favorite camera apps and here's what I noticed:
The 3rd party apps over-exposed the scene with far too much flash, giving it that cold LED light look, and washing out some of the natural colors. But worst of all, they weren't as clear when zooming in as the default app was. Pay close attention to the can of WD40 in the back. Only the stock app makes the word "Directions" visibly clear. All photos were taken using Auto Mode at 8MP - the setting the average person will use daily.
Sample Photos In Order (from left to right):
- Sony Stock Camera App
- Google Camera App
- OpenCamera App
https://goo.gl/photos/ihkstAg95Ag8rybX7
I took a few comparison shots in scenes that I thought would cause the stock app to falter, but it kept coming through and beating the competition. For example, when taking a picture of a poster that was covered by a slight shadow, the stock app was the only app smart enough to use flash; thereby making the words of the poster much clearer. In another indoor scenario, the competition once again over exposed the scene with too much flash, washing out the colors again. I may post these photos later if you request them.
Moral of the story:
Compared to other smartphones (especially flagships), Sony's camera is simply one of the worst performers. <-----(This is a click-able link to the results of a test article) There is no argument here and someone from Sony needs to do something about it. But as for the stock Sony camera app, it appears to utilize the camera better than 3rd party apps can. So if you want to make the best of out our bad situation, stick with the stock camera app.
I agree that the camera on the Z3C is somewhat lacking.
Outdoors in good light it can produce some really nice photos (some of the time) although even in good conditions it still seems to make a mess of things on occasions. Indoors and low light it's just plain terrible. I've done a back to back comparison with my rather elderly SGS3 and in most circumstances the SGS3 knocks the spots off the Z3C.
The problem is marketing.
In order to produce compelling marketing material, Sony developed the 20MP sensor and put this in all their flagship phones. This is way too many MP for such a small sensor and as such the quality suffers badly in anything other than bright sunlight. Even when interpolating the image down to 8MP you still see way more noise than the equivalent true 8MP sensor and the details are mushed to buggery. I'd be happy for the resolution on smartphones to top out at 10MP, which should be enough for 4K video and multiple aspect ratios (not that I think 4K video from a smartphone has much use).
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
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Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.
As a photographer, you of all people should understand that a camera phone is not likely to be used when taking serious photos. This is designed to be a point and shoot replacement for selfies, pictures of food, group photos of friends in a restaurant, etc... This phone's camera isn't a complete failure by any means, but it simply doesn't perform as well as phones from 2-3 years ago under the most basic condition (indoors). I'm just finding it difficult to explain why my $500 flagship phone takes overexposed, blurry photos when my old phones (none of which were even flagship models) did not.
Starlith said:
We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.
mad-marco said:
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.
Starlith said:
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.
PuffDaddy_d said:
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
and if you came from a Nokia flagship this difference is even bigger ....
Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already got several DSLR's thanks very much. I don't think that anyone is expecting DSLR like quality, in fact you seem to be the only person who has brought this up.
I think that what people would like is the the camera on Sony's flagship smartphones to be comparable with other smartphones, especially the ones that have the same sensor hardware!!! It's a disappointment that the 2/3 year old SGS3 produces superior photos than the current Sony flagships, the current Samsung 16MP cameras are vastly superior.
Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have completely missed the point of this thread. It has nothing to do with expecting DSLR quality from a camera phone. We just don't want pictures to look like they were taken from a flip phone from 2006 - which is what this camera looks like when taking photos indoors. A flagship phone needs a flagship camera, and Sony's image processing has left us without, while all other major manufacturers are using some form of Sony image sensor and getting much better results.
But as my original post indicates, the best photos I've been able to get from this camera are with the stock camera app. All others seem to fall short when viewed on a larger screen.
ray_J13 said:
Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me the camera glass on her Z3C was a bit smudged... That would explain the haze.
And the small details on the Z3C look much better and cleaner at 100% zoom than on the Meizu, even if the Z3C was a bit out of focus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Crewville96 said:
I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can upload the vids and couple pics. None of the pics are really the same for comparison since i was in the crowd at the concert though. But you can get a general idea.
PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my vids. One is from my old Droid Incredible 2 (2011, running GB) the other is from my Z3C (2014, running LP). I'll let you guys judge which vid is better.
That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.
PuffDaddy_d said:
That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, just cleaner and sharper overall. Thats the Droid Incredible 2 video (720 only as well, Z3C is at 1080 lol).
Background
While the Z5 has demonstrated that it can take good daytime photos and excellent video (thanks to its closed-loop actuator), low-light performance has been a concern, due to a lack of OIS and its smaller pixels.
I had the opportunity to borrow an LG G4 to test low-light conditions with the Z5. Testing took a while, as I needed to understand the different scene selections of the Z5's Superior Auto mode. I chose two classic, well-known, posters for the basis of the analysis: Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back and Breakfast at Tiffany's. The posters feature both artwork and text, which should provide a good mix of characteristics for comparison. Also, the posters can easily be found online, so no reference photos were necessary.
Test conditions
The SW:ESB poster was lit from a single, overhead, incandecent light bulb (60 watt), which was roughly 10 ft/3 m away. The Breakfast at Tiffany's poster had no nearby light source - the light comes from the next room over 20+ ft/ 7+ m away.
All photos were taken in automatic mode for both phones. The Z5 was set to 8 MP in 16:9 ratio. I had tried set up the photos to look as similar as possible.
Camera setup
The SW:ESB night pics were taken while sitting down. The Z5 photos are as follows:
a) Night mode icon (i.e. moon icon)
b) Night mode icon + tripod icon
c) Night mode icon + tripod icon, phone holder stabilized (not hand-held)
The Breakfast at Tiffany's pics were taken while standing up, with arms in an elevated position. This is was due to the fact that the poster was mounted higher on the wall. It should represent the Z5's worse case scenario, as there was no way to stay completely steady due to the awkward posture and poor lighting.
Note: I had to re-take the Breakfast at Tiffany's photo, as I discovered that the initial photo had moved the focus to the top of the poster, due to face detection. I manually adjusted the focus rather than cut off Audrey's elegant face. When face detection icon was not on screen, the low-light icon (i.e. candle icon) would come on.
Link to photos (7-zipped):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Put-ePeAktZXE4YkxpNmhmWUk
The photos have not been edited in any way, other than to rename the files. I will leave the photos up for a couple of weeks. If you are reading this post after November 2015, and would like a link to the pics, please send me a PM.
Conclusion
OIS definitely helped with the low-light pics. The difference in detail was due to blurring, not MPs as far I could tell. In better lighting conditions or when stabilized, the Z5 and G4 had the same level of detail. The G4 pics became more and more "washed out" as the light level dropped, which was probably due to its smaller sensor.
Kids vs. stills: For quick snaps of people in moderate-to-low lighting, the Z5 was better, due to face detection. OIS couldn't do much to help. G4 had a lot more blurred photos, but when it wasn't blurred, the quality was good.
So why choose the Z5 (without OIS)? For the video recording. Once you've tried taking FHD videos with the Z5, you'll probably never go back to using OIS. Try it in the store... take a walk, jump up and down, shake it all around. It's pretty dang amazing.
Anyway, I hope the pics and the comparison were helpful.
Cheers!
Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?
schecter7 said:
Wrong title These are 'night mode' shots with decent amount of light. How about some real low-light shots (low-light mode/ high ISO) ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gah... I don't have the G4 to test with anymore. I didn't say it was "dinner by candle light". But I'll change the title a bit.
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?
schecter7 said:
Cool. It'd have been real fun to see some blackouts from G4 (like I regularly do from S6 ) in 'low-light'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/
bloodfire1004 said:
Can you please explain what you mean by "blackouts"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
joe_dude said:
Yeah, I noticed the G4's pics got darker rather quickly as the lights went down. Didn't think anyone was interested to see washed out Z5 pics vs. pitch-black G4 pics! xD But I think we need to really test the Z5 outdoors at night with a tripod and see what it's capable of. Anyone live in a big city with a good night life? Tim?
BTW, anyone see these night pics from Zoë Noble?
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2015/09/04/berlinmoments-part2-zoe-noble-on-berlins-nightscapes/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.
schecter7 said:
Now that OP has changed the title, it's become irrelevant. Before he kills me ... I meant the pictures you get when the sensor is pushed to its limit in low-light. It's not a standard term, btw lol
Some extreme examples
http://i0.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.c...4/10/wp_20141016_19_14_30_pro.jpg?fit=810,810
http://i1.wp.com/fortheloveoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dsc_0010.jpg?fit=810,810
---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------
At the very extreme end, Xperia outputs will wash out. But couple stops before that Xperia will get you a usable output while the others will still remain pitch-black. Try it out when you get a chance.
I will do it (without a tripod - you kidding right). I live downtown & I got tired of taking night shots long time ago. Next weekend - hopefully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see. Thanks!
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for this! I'm sure many appreciate the efforts
Though I'm not sure if its just me, but honestly, I prefer the pics from the Z5. For me, the colors / the overall photo itself looks "natural" or more "realistic". Of course, I do not know the actual colors / conditions of what it really looked like but the colors of the S6 seem to be too artificial (and more orangey / redder tint to most of them).
Just my 2 cents though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.
EQ2000 said:
The histogram shows the Z5 is more accurate. Viewed a couple of the photos and resizing the S6 photos to match the res and aspect ratio of the Z5c (2448x3264) show the Z5c often delivers more detail but also a bit more 'fine' grain vs blurrier and noiser (noise blurred out but still visible as blotches) S6 photos (depending on ISO level). Also several photos have a photo (PhotoME exif reader) time date with a difference of 15-20 minutes between each camera and same shooting location..
Here is a crop from both at 2448x3264 and with aspect ratio correction. This is from the S6/Z5 ISO 800 comparision. Top is S6, bottom is Z5c. Photo crops from HKs comparision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me Sir. Do you actually know what are you speaking? You always blame S6 got strong noise reduction but when you found noises there you also said that S6 is too bad to has noise.
Sony is all good in your mind even there are indeed more flat area in photo but you'll just think that some noises to simulate fine grain so it's all good.....
To be honest, I've also played a lots of video stuffs, I was a video lover. The film grain isn't real using in this way. In the old days video encoding technologies were not yet mature, the encoder did remove too much things from the source and people was trying to apply some noises in flat area to fraud human eye but this method should not use again in recent year. Some others were trying to simulate old Film noises for special purpose though.
The environment is total stable and it won't change the result after 15 - 20mins like day time so it is meaningless to mention about this, I'm not only focusing to take photo because my friends whatsapp me. Furthermore, the Z5c is freaking hard to get good result in such low light condition, some scenes were actually been taken 4 to 5 times to try to get one with good result. S6 was almost all done in one shot.
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
S6:
FHD - Software stabilization disabled, OIS enabled(can't be disable)
UHD - OIS enabled(can't be disable)
Z5c:
FHD - IA software stabilization on
UHD - Standard steadyshot on
All photo and video were shot by stock camera handheld. Sony only allowed to pack ISO in 8MP Manual so all are in 8MP from 100iso to 3200iso, skipped testing 50iso bcoz 100iso already super easy to create handshake. S6 were all from Pro mode(standard auto mode can't select ISO) range from 100iso to 800iso, max is 800 from Samsung offered, can't go higher in Pro mode though sometimes the auto mode could boost up to 1000ISO.
Some photo got little handshake and I've no time to just keep repeat shooting. In my experiences, S6 easily beats Z5c in terms of handshake and focus performance(at very low light S6 focus is superior, more faster and accurate). Indeed, many photo from Z5c been shot for a couple of times to try to get best result and almost all S6 photo were just taken in one shot(no more than two).
S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
S6 link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJUXF0bUlmcklhLVE&usp=sharing
Z5c link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4Nx7PgyQVgJYjdOcEJPUHJORjQ&usp=sharing
My Z5c is bootloader locked with DRM key so it's still with the low-light denoise algorithm. I may unlock it soon. My S6 with ISOCell, not Sony IMX240 sensor.
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While an instructive and very interesting comparison, we do loose a bit of something by dealing with differing Fields of View. Some of the loss of detailing that you might otherwise put down to the sensor or software is actually far more about the focus of the lens on the sensor. To see what the detail reproduction is more accurately, we could do with seeing the two framed identically (IE, taking half a step nearer with the Z5 when taking the shot to correct for the different lens).
While I hate to put you to more trouble, could you have a go at this at all? Thanks
TheEndHK said:
Here is my indoor(metro) and night shot(outdoor) campaign of S6 vs. Z5c. All are shared in it's original size without editing other than renaming.
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S6 got very good quality of video as well as photo, I think the OIS is quite helpful for the video part too. I'll probably add Z5c/S6 fast walking video today or tomorrow when I've free time to do more testing.
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Ah, Hong Kong... been there several times. Sorry, but I hate to say it, the video quality on the S6 was not very good. Maybe when standing still it's good, but as soon as you started panning, the video was jittery. In FHD, the Z5 was completely smooth. In 4K, both videos were jittery.
If you're going to critical of the Z5, you should be at least as critical about the S6's poor video performance. You live in HK... a fast paced city. Hold it up and walk around with the crowd, take it on the bus, go up and down the subways stairs. Don't use the Z5 and take video like it's an S6 - judge it on its own merit. If you've ever tried to keep up with a child and record video, you'd know what I mean!
Thanks for the vids and photos... I'll check out the photos later.
TheEndHK said:
You'll need to download all stuffs and check it out on a big PC screen. S6 color can be more better because the default is over. I always preset lower one stepping of saturation and color temp in Pro mode but this time I just let it run default so the result got worse.
If you check the threads on this board, I've said it a dozen times that Sony got better color(my taste) and that is why I buy the Z5c while I already own a S6. In fact, S6 is over whilst Z5c color is also a bit off(under/lower) but just more close to the real scene.
Speaking to the details part, S6 just win hands down without any doubt.
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Okay, I've gone through the pics, comparing both sets of pics side-by-side. First thing I noted was that a few of the Z5 pics were actually less blurry than the S6. LOL! I think I could have done better with the G4.
At 100% size, the Z5 and S6 had nearly the same level of detail across the pics, except for a few pics where either the S6 or Z5 was clearly blurred. The Z5 had smaller text because of the FOV, but it wasn't any harder to read.
I thought the S6 would be the clear winner with OIS, but the pics look very close in quality. Z5 should have slightly better colours, but I can't tell without neutral reference pics. I think you should have spent more time stabilizing the S6. From your pics and video, I'd choose the Z5, since the only thing that's clearly better from the two sets was the Z5's FHD video. xD
Now that I've had the Z5 for a couple of weeks, here are my thoughts:
Here on XDA, we tend to get overly technical (no, really?), so I've been thinking about how a "normal" person would decide to get and use the Z5. I bought the Z5 based on early impressions of its video performance and technical details of the new camera system (dat closed-loop actuator). After taking some family vids running around the house, I'd say it works as advertised.
But it was my SO's reaction (a non-geek) that was more telling. She was curious how the videos would turn out, as I barely paid attention to the phone while it was taking videos. She was impressed and commented that it was so smooth that it looked "professional". As any family man knows, having the "other half" onboard with a tech purchase means life is good! Heh!
The photo quality? Frankly, she didn't notice much difference between the Z5, G4 or even my old Z Ultra. The G4's OIS didn't help much for impromptu pics of people. I had plenty of blurred indoor shots of moving faces with each phone. The Z5 did try harder with face detection and scene selection to get good pics, while the G4 was basically a straight dummy point-and-shoot. The G4's strength is in its manual mode, and in quick snap situations, there was no time to play with the settings. Ironically, I caught some of the best moments - not talking about colour or details - from the Z Ultra, as it was the camera I was most familiar with. LOL!
The Z5 is now my go-to camera for videos. I think anyone who wants to take good family or vacation videos (or even vloggers), the Z5 is probably the best choice for a phone. Personally, I'd still take a real camera on vacations for better pics and optical zoom. Gawd, nothing is more annoying than taking a pic of something and have it show up the size of a pinhead because I couldn't zoom in.
Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/
schecter7 said:
Fulfilling half of my pledge. Other phone died & bartender didn't serve me tripod or OIS this evening. So SA w/o tripod all the way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157659569050879/with/22496859817/
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Good shots and a good example piece that demonstrates that you can get very good night shots from the Z5. I especially like the carriage.
As is my way, I've been looking through Flickr at S6 shots that random people have posted and have come across images like https://flic.kr/p/A14UVf and https://flic.kr/p/ytEfJq - both of which are noisier than a great many night shots and indoors night shots I've taken with my Z5. These are not isolated examples.
Not very scientific, I know, but it's evidence that getting good results is as much about the person behind the camera as it is about the camera itself. Those S6 shots aren't really any better than anything that the Z5 could produce: detail is relatively similar (though a little better with the S6, probably) and noise is higher. Compare that bar shot with one of mine in MUCH worse lighting (so much darker than the image produced): https://flic.kr/p/AHaxNj . Sure, the detail is smudgy but it is there and there is far less noise, to boot. Not saying that my image is perfect - anything but - but seeing the S6 bar shot above (Full of very ugly noise in an environment with many more light sources) makes me wonder just how much better the S6 would've handled that scene, if at all.
Some of my initial comparative shots.
Just my first day with Z5, and the shots are in difficult conditions sometimes, on purpose.
The Zoom is ok considering it was bad lighting.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsknZUGYc