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Trying to connect the N4 to a car Bluetooth audio (2012 model car, relatively new, only 9 months old).
(1) I had a very hard time getting the two paired: lots of "connection failed" attempts until they finally connected.
(2) The phone does not send artist/track info which is surprising as I have an older LG phone running Android 2.3.4 and that sends all the info.
(3) Without any music being streamed to the car audio, if I make a phone call via the car bluetooth, when the call ends the music player on the N4 starts automatically. This is very annoying, not sure if it's a problem with the car implementation sending a "play" command at the end of the call or the N4 doing something weird. I tend to blame the N4 as two other phones, an iPhone and the older LG mentioned above do not do this.
(4) The car has a play/pause toggle that it can send to the bluetooth player. Pause works, the player on the N4 pauses, but then play doesn't work, I have to hit play on the device.
(5) After I use bluetooth on the N4, I find that sometimes the widget toggle can no longer turn bluetooth on/off until I reboot the phone.
(6) After I use bluetooth on the N4, the phone sometimes randomly reboots. Not sure if it's really related or just a coincidence. Given (5) above I suspect something is going on.
Anyone else having such a hard time with the bluetooth part? Potential hardware issue or simply buggy software that we can hope to get addressed at some point?
I have experienced the issue with track information not being sent. Also random changes in volume during playback. Seems there's still some work that needs to be done in 4.2 regarding blue tooth.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk HD
sirxdroid said:
(2) The phone does not send artist/track info which is surprising as I have an older LG phone running Android 2.3.4 and that sends all the info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this an issue that can be addressed by flashing a custom ROM or perhaps using a different music player than stock or is there more to it, deep down in the bluetooth drivers and it would need a fix from Google in the form of new drivers?
Yeah I have had a few issues too. My track/artist/album names do not send where my S2 sends them. Also the headunit I have has buttons for shuffle and repeat and these do not show up at all (I assume because it detects they aren't supported). I haven't taken a call yet or tried turning BT off after streaming but I'll give it a shot and see.. My nexus 4 also randomly shuts down for no apparent reason sometimes (rarely atm). I think it's just 4.2.1 problems - I doubt a different music app will fix it (I tried one), custom ROM may work though..
My N4 is paired with an Alpine 135BT and it's worked very well so far. I initially had some trouble connecting but once they were paired I didn't have any additional connection issues. The N4 does automatically play as soon as it connects to the unit. I've got BeyondPod and Spotify installed and for whatever reason it always defaults to BeyondPod instead of Spotify even if I had BeyondPod closed and Spotify open. Not a big deal to me though.
Are you running the stock rom or a custom rom? I had my EVO LTE hooked up to the same head unit. It worked perfectly on the stock software but gave me all kinds of trouble when I started using custom roms. Otherwise, it could just be that the N4 and your particular head unit just don't play nicely together.
sirxdroid said:
Trying to connect the N4 to a car Bluetooth audio (2012 model car, relatively new, only 9 months old).
(1) I had a very hard time getting the two paired: lots of "connection failed" attempts until they finally connected.
(2) The phone does not send artist/track info which is surprising as I have an older LG phone running Android 2.3.4 and that sends all the info.
(3) Without any music being streamed to the car audio, if I make a phone call via the car bluetooth, when the call ends the music player on the N4 starts automatically. This is very annoying, not sure if it's a problem with the car implementation sending a "play" command at the end of the call or the N4 doing something weird. I tend to blame the N4 as two other phones, an iPhone and the older LG mentioned above do not do this.
(4) The car has a play/pause toggle that it can send to the bluetooth player. Pause works, the player on the N4 pauses, but then play doesn't work, I have to hit play on the device.
(5) After I use bluetooth on the N4, I find that sometimes the widget toggle can no longer turn bluetooth on/off until I reboot the phone.
(6) After I use bluetooth on the N4, the phone sometimes randomly reboots. Not sure if it's really related or just a coincidence. Given (5) above I suspect something is going on.
Anyone else having such a hard time with the bluetooth part? Potential hardware issue or simply buggy software that we can hope to get addressed at some point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(1) Haven't had any connection issues so far on my vehicle or my wife's.
(2) Currently stock Android uses AVCR v1.0 which only only allows you to control via Bluetooth (play, pause, etc) but not send track info. Other manufactures that customize Android (LG, Samsung, etc) will sometimes use v1.3 that supports track info. That's why your old phone did it.
You could install a custom Rom that has v1.3. I think cm10 does.
(3) Again, not happening on my two cars. The only time the music starts after a call is if it was playing before the call. I'm wondering if you have another music/podcast player that is taking over Bluetooth controls and causing problems. I use the stock player and Player Pro. If I don't disable the headset/BT controls in Player Pro I have control issues.
(4) I have the same issue. To get around this I cheat and push the track advance button on the radio to play the next track.
(5) This is an issue I've had on all of my previous android phones. I haven't noticed I my N4 because I never toggle off Bluetooth anymore.
(6) Not having this problem but maybe try solution in (3).
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
got the sony mw600 for bluetooth audio.. no id tags on display.. on every musicplayer (play music, poweramp, cm musicplayer..) the same.
dont know why, but today even the start/stop, forward and prev. buttons didnt work! the only thing i can use is volume control..
anyone an idea?
Any luck with this?
I want to buy one but couldn't find it in Sri Lanka so planning to order one via ebay & need to check if it works. Running cyanogen mod 10, heard that the bluetooth stack was updated on CM which supports most of the features since stock rom only has older stack version which can have issues!
clsmn said:
got the sony mw600 for bluetooth audio.. no id tags on display.. on every musicplayer (play music, poweramp, cm musicplayer..) the same.
dont know why, but today even the start/stop, forward and prev. buttons didnt work! the only thing i can use is volume control..
anyone an idea?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dark5un0 said:
... that the bluetooth stack was updated on CM which supports most of the features since stock rom only has older stack version ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
using the actual cm10.1 nightly with franco r53
Wow, maybe I'll wait for a few weeks & see if it works out for you..
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
dark5un0 said:
Wow, maybe I'll wait for a few weeks & see if it works out for you..
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well.. Sound and controll works.. even headset-function works for telephone calls.. only thing not working now is id for tracks
Awesome! Thanks for the reply! I hope it worked out soon!
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
I also have the track name issue. This is a massive let down. I like to just get in my car and flip through tracks with my phone in my pocket. My iPhone did this, my s3 did this. Why not the nexus 4? Come on Google. Sort it out
TrickyTree1984 said:
I also have the track name issue. This is a massive let down. I like to just get in my car and flip through tracks with my phone in my pocket. My iPhone did this, my s3 did this. Why not the nexus 4? Come on Google. Sort it out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my impression is that almost nothing involving Bluetooth functions as it should currently on the N4. I can't even get a mouse to work. what a shambles! it's not as if BT is some new technology. this all better get sorted out in 4.2.2.
If I'm not mistaken Google moved to a new Broadcom b/t stack. Yeah, good move! And I agree, b/t has been around for like what at least 10 years now? You'd think that getting track info should be a given by now. I have a crappy old LG phone running Gingerbread and it has no issues at all.
Bluetooth
When I got the N4, I connected my helmet headset to it and everything seems to work fine. My headset supports ad2p music and phone. Both connected and both worked, including play controls. Not sure about the audio quality, I didn't test it long enough After I flashed Jellybro (CM 10.1 Kang) Music connects, but phone goes on a connect/disconnect loop. Audio needs further testing, can't tell if the left side is off because of the bluetooth or not. Controls work most of the time, every now and again playback will decide to pause itself and sometimes the play command doesn't work. Haven't had a chance to flash stock CM 10.1 nightly yet either.
Play/Pause Works Inconsistently
Has anyone had this issue?
I am on stock 4.2.2, I connect with my car stereo no problems. I use to be able to just hit play/pause on my car stereo and it would just play music from Google Music. Now, sometimes when I hit the play/pause button on my stereo, it won't play. I have to manually hit play from my phone. After initially doing that, then I can hit play/pause and the control is there. I haven't had the problem since I got my phone on Nov 14th, this issue just started to happen. I notice this after installing Light Manager, but I have uninstalled it and still the issue is there. It is inconsistent, but the issue is more often than not.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Just reiterating, stock Android does not show artist/track info, it is not in the protocol, but you can skip tracks or go back to previous tracks. If it is important to you, you should root and get a custom ROM, not sure which ones for N4 has it though, been too happy with stock to root.
About time, Google:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/0...vrcp-1-3-coming-to-android-with-api-level-18/
Is anyone else having problems wit Bluetooth audio streaming in car? My music sounds like it's speed up a tiny bit. Kinda like chipmunks voices. Is this a ROM issue?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Hi fellow xda'ers
I got the 4.3 OTA today for my Nexus 4 and the problem of stuttering bluetooth audio persists for me.
This is in reference to the bug described here: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=39633
I also unpaired my phone and re-paired it but still facing the same problem.
So, just wanted to ask around...
1. Is anyone still facing this same bluetooth audio bug like me in Android 4.3?
2. Can anyone who had this bug in 4.2.2 confirm that it got resolved for them in Android 4.3?
Thanks..
mailrachit said:
Hi fellow xda'ers
I got the 4.3 OTA today for my Nexus 4 and the problem of stuttering bluetooth audio persists for me.
This is in reference to the bug described here: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=39633
I also unpaired my phone and re-paired it but still facing the same problem.
So, just wanted to ask around...
1. Is anyone still facing this same bluetooth audio bug like me in Android 4.3?
2. Can anyone who had this bug in 4.2.2 confirm that it got resolved for them in Android 4.3?
Thanks..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is great..plus the track name is one there now....but i never had problems in 4.2 either so.
what do you have for a stereo?
I use mine in my car (sony stereo) and i also have a bluetooth radio for my patio i got at home depot that works just fine
Every thing is fine with mine too
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Premium HD app
Never had suffer stutter
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
I am using my phone with a Clarion car stereo.
The issue now is much rarer than it was before.
I guess I need to test it out for a few more days.
Thanks..
Worked fine for me in 4.2.2 .... now in 4.3 LOTS of stutter and occasional drops. Very annoying and probably related to the change of Bluetooth in 4.3 ... hope someone comes up with a fix, otherwise I'll need to go back to 4.2.2 as I use Bluetooth for music lots. Anyone that can help ... ??
I was excited to see that as soon as I upgraded from 4.2.2 to 4.3 my bluetooth streaming worked flawlessly in my car for a 2 hour drive into the mountains. However, a couple days later the stuttering came back, just as you described.
This was the one thing I was looking forward to for 4.3 but it looks like we've been let down.
mailrachit said:
I am using my phone with a Clarion car stereo.
The issue now is much rarer than it was before.
I guess I need to test it out for a few more days.
Thanks..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Odd, I also have a Clarion stereo. I'll be curious to try it out in another car with a different brand of stereo to see if it may just be that our phones don't play well with Clarion...
I've never had issues...I have a Sony stereo and I also play in my buddies new toyota truck and plays fine. I would try on other devices..my guess would be your problem is with the stereo than the phone
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
sn0warmy said:
I was excited to see that as soon as I upgraded from 4.2.2 to 4.3 my bluetooth streaming worked flawlessly in my car for a 2 hour drive into the mountains. However, a couple days later the stuttering came back, just as you described.
This was the one thing I was looking forward to for 4.3 but it looks like we've been let down.
Odd, I also have a Clarion stereo. I'll be curious to try it out in another car with a different brand of stereo to see if it may just be that our phones don't play well with Clarion...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really sure, what's happening.
I tried earlier on with Poweramp Player (third party app) and Google Play Music, I had stuttering in both the apps.
Then I decided to unpair the phone/stereo, change the phone name and then re-pair. Just wanted a fresh start..
After that, I had the stuttering problem whenever I used Poweramp player. The problem happens within 5-7 min. However, when I use Google Play Music, it seems to work fine. However, I haven't tested it for long. Maybe 1 hour max, so can't say if my hypothesis is correct but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. After 7 months with this phone, I really need to get Bluetooth working.
mailrachit said:
I'm not really sure, what's happening.
I tried earlier on with Poweramp Player (third party app) and Google Play Music, I had stuttering in both the apps.
Then I decided to unpair the phone/stereo, change the phone name and then re-pair. Just wanted a fresh start..
After that, I had the stuttering problem whenever I used Poweramp player. The problem happens within 5-7 min. However, when I use Google Play Music, it seems to work fine. However, I haven't tested it for long. Maybe 1 hour max, so can't say if my hypothesis is correct but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. After 7 months with this phone, I really need to get Bluetooth working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in the same boat. But I really am wondering if looking at the software/apps used is the wrong method. I've been doing the same thing. Over the past 7 months I've tried various ROMs, kernels, radios etc. and nothing changes it. I've talked about it with various friends with Nexus 4's and none of them seem to have any issues.
At this point my money is on the Clarion stereo being the issue but I still have not tested the phone with another stereo. This weekend we are visiting my parents. I will try using the phone with the bluetooth on my Mom's 2013 4Runner and my Dad's 2010 F150 to see if I can replicate the problem. If it works with both their cars then I will be in the market for a new stereo. :laugh:
sn0warmy said:
I'm in the same boat. But I really am wondering if looking at the software/apps used is the wrong method. I've been doing the same thing. Over the past 7 months I've tried various ROMs, kernels, radios etc. and nothing changes it. I've talked about it with various friends with Nexus 4's and none of them seem to have any issues.
At this point my money is on the Clarion stereo being the issue but I still have not tested the phone with another stereo. This weekend we are visiting my parents. I will try using the phone with the bluetooth on my Mom's 2013 4Runner and my Dad's 2010 F150 to see if I can replicate the problem. If it works with both their cars then I will be in the market for a new stereo. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the same time have you checked the reverse? Any other phones that work fine with your stereo?
I have and I can say all other phones have worked fine with my Clarion stereo.
If N4 continues to have problems with the Clarion stereo, it could be easier for me to sell the N4 and get another phone, unfortunately a non-Nexus one
mailrachit said:
At the same time have you checked the reverse? Any other phones that work fine with your stereo?
I have and I can say all other phones have worked fine with my Clarion stereo.
If N4 continues to have problems with the Clarion stereo, it could be easier for me to sell the N4 and get another phone, unfortunately a non-Nexus one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sn0warmy said:
I'm in the same boat. But I really am wondering if looking at the software/apps used is the wrong method. I've been doing the same thing. Over the past 7 months I've tried various ROMs, kernels, radios etc. and nothing changes it. I've talked about it with various friends with Nexus 4's and none of them seem to have any issues.
At this point my money is on the Clarion stereo being the issue but I still have not tested the phone with another stereo. This weekend we are visiting my parents. I will try using the phone with the bluetooth on my Mom's 2013 4Runner and my Dad's 2010 F150 to see if I can replicate the problem. If it works with both their cars then I will be in the market for a new stereo. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was wrong btw. The problem came back for Play Music too :crying:
Don't know what to do...
Using all stock 4.3 and btooth working perfectly. Using it right now. I just have a $50 lg headset but have no issues.
Not sure what's up with your device man
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
@sn0warmy
It seems the problem is with our Clarion car stereo indeed. A lot of Clarion stereos have bluetooth issues:
http://www.fixya.com/support/t12082313-bluetooth_audio_streaming_breaks_up
http://community.crutchfield.com/car_audio_and_video/f/27/receivers/t/22006/clarion-cx501-bluetooth
Phones like iPhone 4, Lumia 920 and Moto Razr also seem to have these problems.
My stereo CX501 doesn't have any bluetooth firmware upgrade too. Though, they have provided some firmware update for some other stereos like NX501 and so on. So you should check out on their site for a firmware upgrade.
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/support/compatibility/bluetooth/index.html
I really think you're right. I tried streaming music through my girlfriend's car stereo last night and had absolutely no issues. I've also read the threads you linked to as well as a few others and the consensus is that Clarion keeps trying to pin the blame on the phones and not their receivers. Looks like it's time to change stereos...
sn0warmy said:
I really think you're right. I tried streaming music through my girlfriend's car stereo last night and had absolutely no issues. I've also read the threads you linked to as well as a few others and the consensus is that Clarion keeps trying to pin the blame on the phones and not their receivers. Looks like it's time to change stereos...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should at least check if there is a firmware upgrade available for you on Clarion's support site before spending on a new stereo.
Unfortunately, it's not available for my stereo CX501.
I have stuttering too on both my A2DP devices. Both are cheap: one is from DX, th eother is from a local 'dollar store' (where it was 10 euro or so).
The one from the dollar store seems to work fine after pairing, but not when connecting again.
The one from DX (z nice plug for the aux in of the car, with a mic and henadsfree speakers through the car audio) seems to stop stuttering after a few minutes. The audio level is a lot better with 4.3.
But no difference in stuttering beween 4.2.2 and 4.3.
Problems remain
I have found no improvement with my Nexus 7 with Android 4.3. I get stuttering every minute or so. I've done a bit of reading and found that Bluetooth is hellishly complex - and would be very difficult to debug. For instance to set up audio streaming, both devices need to agree on a codec to use. There is a default base level codec. As I have found that the issue is worse on some bluetooth receivers than others, I can only guess that the issue relates to Android's selection of a codec or other parameter on some devices. I certainly have no issue with any device streaming from my windows laptop (no matter how busy it is).
I have the exact same issues with bluetooth stuttering.
Using 4.2.2 PACman rom on my Note 2 with a Sony MW600 bluetooth adapter, the audio would switch off for a second every minute or so, whether using Google Play music or PowerAmp, but it seemed to happen less on the former.
Updating to 4.3 has made it worse, the audio now switches off for at least 5 seconds to the point where i have to check if the phone or app has crashed each time.
I never had an issue with the Revolution HD rom (I think its called?) but I believe that's mostly stock?
It kinda feels like the bluetooth can't handle the bandwidth depending on the size of the file. I think there's less stuttering on lower quality files - could just be in my head though.
I have a Galaxy S3 i747 running latest 4.3 CM10 rom. My audio stuttering actually got worse when upgrading from 4.2.2. Using platronics 903+ and a bluetooth stereo unit for my motorycle helmet.
Very disappointed. My work iPhone doesnt skip a beat.
hi
i have a small problem with my note 3
when i connect my note 3 with my car radio via bluetooth
the streaming cut every 20 seconds
does anyone find a solution?
I have installed the Bluetooth Auto Connect app but it has not solved the problem
sorry for my english
Up
:crying:
up
I see you're really looking for some feedback, so here is my penny worth: it's probably older version BT in your car, that could be a problem, since phone has latest one and streams nice at least to my BT headphones, for example. My car is 6yrs old and I don't even have streaming option, at least none that I can find or make it work. If I was you I could probably try to see if I could get updated software for the radio, either from the dealer if factory, or from manufacturer if aftermarket set. I know my Toyota had at least 3-4 software updates, mostly maps, but also programing. But I don't care, calling over BT works, otherwise I listen to the car radio, cut CD to use in the player, or hook up wire to aux input. I know this is not exactly what you're looking for, but without knowing any details about your car, I can't even point you out to proper car forum, where other people could have similar problem with different phones and already found solution.
BTW your English is fine, no reason to be sorry.
prad1po said:
i have a small problem with my note 3
when i connect my note 3 with my car radio via bluetooth
the streaming cut every 20 seconds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What model car do you have? I have had no issues with my car and the Note 3 connection, streaming works just as good as every other phone I've owned. The post above mentioned about car firmware updates, that would be a good thing to check. My car has had 2 software updates to address issues with the bluetooth system. My car is a 2011 Kia Cerato (Forte in US the market), both updates were in the first year, the first one only 3 months after getting the car.
Hi,
has anyone got issues with Bluetooth audio? When I connect my note 4 to my car (vw golf mk7) it just say bluetooth audio on screen while playing the track without any track info or the ability change track from the cars controls which all worked fine on my note 3.
is it missing features? I have checked all the bluetooth settings but still the same issue.
I have used samsung music player as well as my default poweramp one.
I have the X note rom on mine.
Any feed back appreciated
Thanks
a5ian300zx said:
Hi,
has anyone got issues with Bluetooth audio? When I connect my note 4 to my car (vw golf mk7) it just say bluetooth audio on screen while playing the track without any track info or the ability change track from the cars controls which all worked fine on my note 3.
is it missing features? I have checked all the bluetooth settings but still the same issue.
I have used samsung music player as well as my default poweramp one.
I have the X note rom on mine.
Any feed back appreciated
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm having similar problems where the display doesn't show any information, but my controls on the steering wheel are working. The display issues are only in my Honda Pilot though, they show perfectly in my wife's Honda Fit. Fortunately I only have about 6 months left on the lease so I'm hoping a newer vehicle with newer firmware will solve the issue if no one on here knows what's happening...
I might try look at updating the vw mk7 software and see if that helps.
Has the same problem too mk7 golf pair up note 4 will not change songs at all stock rom here i have... the note 4 has alot of problems even youtube cant play anything higher then 720p
so. It's known issue must be bluetooth version 4.1
a5ian300zx said:
so. It's known issue must be bluetooth version 4.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a mk7 golf, latest firmware updated 2 days ago, with a note 4 running 4.4.4 and I have exactly the same problem.
So frustrating, as my note 2 still works fine.
I have 63 plate Renault Captur, and iphone 5s, HTC One M7 and M8 all show correct info. Note show's nowt.
after a bit of digging around i discovered the issue is related to the note using newer version of the avrcp within bluetooth which does all the multimedia bit.
In the note its version 1.5 while all other manufacturer still use v1.3
I have read that samsung said they would revert back to avrcp version 1.3 in the next update but don't hold me to that.
Thanks
Next update, then Android Lollipop?
Also, I found this on wikipedia, it says that the 1.5 is backwards compatible. Why Note 4 not?
1.0 — Basic remote control commands (play/pause/stop, etc.)
1.3 — all of 1.0 plus metadata and media-player state support
The status of the music source (playing, stopped, etc.)
Metadata information on the track itself (artist, track name, etc.).
1.4 — all of 1.0 and 1.3 plus media browsing capabilities for multiple media players
Browsing and manipulation of multiple players
Browsing of media metadata per media player, including a "Now Playing" list
Basic search capabilities
Support for Absolute volume
1.5 — all of 1.0, 1.3 and 1.4 plus specification corrections and clarifications to absolute volume control, browsing and other features
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have this issue with my Note 4 and Alpine CDE-133BT, GS2, GS3 and GS4 works fine.
But also iPhone 6 commands don't work.
Opel Astra Sport Tourer 2014 same problem
I can confirm this problem with my Audi A3 (8V, built in 2013). My previous Note2 worked like a charm, now I can use the phone functionality, but I can't select any songs from the phone memory or use functions like Play, Pause, Skip etc.
Has anyone checked whether with Lollipop has anything changed?
Any news on this topic? Would love to listen to music from my phone in my car again
I tried a while ago with the latest 5.0.1 (ITV BOC5) and the problem persists.
I have seen this question come up on forums more than once but never with a definite solution.
I upgraded from an S4 to a Note 4 over the last month and all of a sudden, the default music player auto starts when my phone connects to the car radio (the same car I have had the whole time) via bluetooth. I have tried apps like "Bluetooth Connect & Stop Play" but only works like 1 out of 10, I even used a tasker like app "Llama", which seemed to help a little (basically won't override the behavior).
This is such an annoyance since buying the phone that I am considering rooting the thing and disabling the default music player..only thing that makes me hesitate is that I am thinking that whatever the design flaw this is, will just continue when another music app become default...or a custom ROM. Only other option I have is to delete my SD card music location so the player doesn't have any music to play but then whats the point of having the music on the SD card in the first place.
If anyone else have any ideas, I sure would appreciate it.