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AC Charging problem with original charger & new battery

Hi!
I had a battery probelm (same one everyone else seemed to get with there 1yr old uni) where it cuts out at 60% due to the voltage from the battery dropping below the threshold really fast.
Anyway I got a new battery .. my old one was 1650ma (or something like that) I got this new one which is 1750ma (or something like that).. definitely different.
Now I plug my original charger (5v 1a) into the pda and the charge light turns on .. I leave it for an hour and the battery hasn't charged any.. in fact its lost charge as you'd expect if it had been left switched on with no supply.
So.. I plug my motorola krzr charger (5v 550ma) into it and go for a shower/sh*t/shave come back and the battery has gained 10%.. great! atleast I can charge it now.
I also have a desktop cradle charger (5v 1a), same problem.. it sits there forever and a day and discharges... no charge.. (I only got it when I got my new battery so could not prove it before hand)
USB charging works with no problems (not from the cradle one though). So my question is ... Why?
Could it be something to do with my new battery?? I got it from PDAAddons and they've always been good in the past so I believe I can rule out it being a fake.
My new battery is a Li-on Poly.. I've got to admit I didn't look at my old one to see if that was a poly too ... was definitely a li-on though.
I can live with using my moto charger on my exec but unfortunately the ac adapter for my cradle is of a different connector type (female pin sleeve thingy like nokia) so before I search the world for a 5v 550ma version I could do with knowing if i'm barking up the wrong tree and about to waste my money..
Any electronics whizzes in the house say ho!

anyone? :''-(

Aahaahaa!
I'm here! Now, what you say sounds very interesting and yet very strange, why?
- Normally more current from the charger should be better, you cannot put in the PDA more current than it's factory maximum (which I don't know how much it is, but that's not a problem), the internal charger (inside the PDA) knows how much it is and how to limit, also takes care of the right charging profile for your battery.
- You don't have to worry about the exact battery type you bought, boths are Lithium, so chargind profiles are mostly the same, these (LiIon and LiPoly) are "exchangeable" usually (I've heard of no problems until now, since several years I mean).
- If your battery is discharging means only one thing, you're not puttin current into the battery, you're taking it out of it! So, either you might have a deffective charger, a deffective charging circuit (the one inside the PDA) or a defective battery.
- You can charge the battery with your Moto's charger, so battery is probably ok, you have used your original charger/craddle until now, so they might be ok, you have charged one battery at least to 10% so PDA should be ok.
What can it be?
Possibilities are:
Slightly deffective PDA's internal charging circuit, the fact that you can charge with a lower rating charger (the one for your Razr, thing that I've done myself two weeks ago), might point to this, because you have already "limited" the maximum current to 550mA (Razr's charger max current).
Slightly different battery, most of the batteries do have some kind of thermal protection circuit inside (chip + temp sensor, etc.), if the behavior of this circuit is not "compatible" somethin strange can happen, however I personally consider this option not to be the best.
One or two of your chargers might also be somehow "deffective", why? Your original battery might be ok and you are just having problems with your chargers or your High capacity chargers (the original one and that from the craddle) have some problem to give enough juice to your batteries.
I surely might proceed as follows:
try to charge both batteries with a stand alone charger, this is not an easy task, because Lithium batteries are the most "delicate" types, charging method is the "strangest" one, I have two stand alone battery chargers that came as gift with some Nokia batteries I bought from an Ebay seller, eventually, I could give you the full schematic so you can construct it (if you want and if you can).
In this way I will not have any more suspects from the batteries.
Second, test each of my chargers, it can be done by connecting a medium -and suitable- load to each charger for some minutes.
A wire wound ceramic resistor should do the trick, ie for the Razr charger (5V, 550mA) I could use a 250mA load, R=V/I, so 5V/.25A equals 20 ohm (1.25W max power, use at least a 2W resistor, 3 or 5W better).
If the internal PDA circuit should be defective, take it to fix or try to fix for yourself.
Hope this helps

kecido said:
Aahaahaa!
I'm here! Now, what you say sounds very interesting and yet very strange, why?
- Normally more current from the charger should be better, you cannot put in the PDA more current than it's factory maximum (which I don't know how much it is, but that's not a problem), the internal charger (inside the PDA) knows how much it is and how to limit, also takes care of the right charging profile for your battery.
- You don't have to worry about the exact battery type you bought, boths are Lithium, so chargind profiles are mostly the same, these (LiIon and LiPoly) are "exchangeable" usually (I've heard of no problems until now, since several years I mean).
- If your battery is discharging means only one thing, you're not puttin current into the battery, you're taking it out of it! So, either you might have a deffective charger, a deffective charging circuit (the one inside the PDA) or a defective battery.
- You can charge the battery with your Moto's charger, so battery is probably ok, you have used your original charger/craddle until now, so they might be ok, you have charged one battery at least to 10% so PDA should be ok.
What can it be?
Possibilities are:
Slightly deffective PDA's internal charging circuit, the fact that you can charge with a lower rating charger (the one for your Razr, thing that I've done myself two weeks ago), might point to this, because you have already "limited" the maximum current to 550mA (Razr's charger max current).
Slightly different battery, most of the batteries do have some kind of thermal protection circuit inside (chip + temp sensor, etc.), if the behavior of this circuit is not "compatible" somethin strange can happen, however I personally consider this option not to be the best.
One or two of your chargers might also be somehow "deffective", why? Your original battery might be ok and you are just having problems with your chargers or your High capacity chargers (the original one and that from the craddle) have some problem to give enough juice to your batteries.
I surely might proceed as follows:
try to charge both batteries with a stand alone charger, this is not an easy task, because Lithium batteries are the most "delicate" types, charging method is the "strangest" one, I have two stand alone battery chargers that came as gift with some Nokia batteries I bought from an Ebay seller, eventually, I could give you the full schematic so you can construct it (if you want and if you can).
In this way I will not have any more suspects from the batteries.
Second, test each of my chargers, it can be done by connecting a medium -and suitable- load to each charger for some minutes.
A wire wound ceramic resistor should do the trick, ie for the Razr charger (5V, 550mA) I could use a 250mA load, R=V/I, so 5V/.25A equals 20 ohm (1.25W max power, use at least a 2W resistor, 3 or 5W better).
If the internal PDA circuit should be defective, take it to fix or try to fix for yourself.
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm gunna buy another 5v 1a charger .. I've had it reported that this cradle charger (5v 1a) doesn't work properly anyway so it may be 2 seperate problems here Thanks for you advice fella much appreciated

Charging anomaly, workaround
vbJoe said:
...Now I plug my original charger (5v 1a) into the pda and the charge light turns on ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you absotively, posilutely certain the AMBER charge light comes on fully?
I leave it for an hour and the battery hasn't charged any.. in fact its lost charge as you'd expect if it had been left switched on with no supply.
So.. I plug my motorola krzr charger (5v 550ma) into it and go for a shower/sh*t/shave come back and the battery has gained 10%.. great! atleast I can charge it now.
I also have a desktop cradle charger (5v 1a), same problem.. it sits there forever and a day and discharges... no charge.. (I only got it when I got my new battery so could not prove it before hand)
USB charging works with no problems (not from the cradle one though). So my question is ... Why?...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is some anomaly about charging with a plug-in charger. You may have to turn the device on so that it can recognize the charger, then close it and let it turn itself off; or perhaps it's turn it off then on, I'm not sure, but I've encountered similar oddities with both 110v, 220v, and 12v chargers, and I've seen discussion about this anomaly on this and/or other fora. Once you get the AMBER light, you're fine (as long as it's putting out at least +5v; +5.5 is better).
I think it has something to do with its looking for a [non-existent] USB signal along with the voltage under some conditions, but not others, but that's just a wild guess. Anyway, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with your battery, device, or charger. Hope this helps. Cheers,

Thanks for the reply, I'm 100% that the amber light turns on. Not only that the screen brightens so it definitely knows its connected. I've tried several combinations of turning it off/on etc during the charge/before but nothing seems to make this desktop charger actually put anything in the battery.

[Q] Too little amps. Any damage?

Alright, so yesterday, I went to Five Below to buy another charger with a longer cable than the official charger, since it's so short.
The battery was nearly dead (about 10%). I had plugged it in, turned it off, and went to bed. I woke up and checked it, the battery was only about 3/4 full (about 65 - 75%). This confused me a bit, so I checked the specifications on both chargers.
The official charger puts out 2 amps. The 3rd party charger puts out 1000 milliamps (1 amp). The official charger puts out 5.0 volts, the 3rd party puts out 5.5.
My dad said that's why it was taking so long to charge and that it will not damage the tablet, but will do significant damage to the 3rd party charger/transformer.
But did/would it do any damage to the tablet? I'm kind of paranoid about everything, as this thing is brand new. It has an uneven screen, and I'm paranoid that the tight case I'm using with it (which only latches on one side) is making it worse, even though it probably isn't. That's not the point though.

The chip that controls the charging is here http://www.summitmicro.com/prod_select/summary/SMB347/SMB347.htm. You are not going to damage anything throwing 5.5V/1A at it.

peterk-1 said:
The chip that controls the charging is here http://www.summitmicro.com/prod_select/summary/SMB347/SMB347.htm. You are not going to damage anything throwing 5.5V/1A at it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, alright. Thanks for that link.

Your dad is right (always believe your dad, dads are always right). The device draws power from the charger, the charger does not force power into the device, so it's possible to damage the charger by drawing too much power from it making it overheat, but you are not going to do any harm to the N7. A 1A charger should charge the N7 but not as fast, it's probable that the one you bought is not really 1A, especially if it's a no-name Chinese thing.
You can just buy a longer usb cable for your Asus charger though.

[Q] Nexus4 double charging?

Odd thought popped in my head while sitting at my desk today at work....Can you double charge the Nexus4? For example, I have the wireless charger. I also have a wired charger at my desk that I used before I bought the wireless orb. Could I plug the nexus4 into the wired charger and then set it on top of the wireless orb? Would it cause any damage? Would it charge my battery any faster? Would it even do anything? Part of me says that the inductive charging wouldn't even turn on because the phone would/should know that it is pulled into a micro usb cable. Another part of me says well, the internal inductive pad is probably always active and isn't something that can be turned off? I toss this question to the people here that are smarter than me in the hardware side.

maybe, if it does perhaps battery will get hot and start to turn off one of them or maybe decrease power charge in usb or wireless charger...
but its a matter of try... i think u dont have nothing to loose cause our phones with high temperatures decrease speed and charge power..

The Nexus 4 has two main power circuits: 1) Battery Connector & Charging Circuit & 2) Wireless Charging GEN2 Circuit. These two work together with internal battery protection circuit as well. There are many controls going on while charging, such as current sensors, thermal sensors, voltage reference and voltage input detection. So basically it has been thought to avoid any problem if you happen to connect both charging supplies at the same time, as only one will act as the charger, and as far as I can understand the logic of it, it’s the USB charging that has priority over wireless charging.

ekmenet said:
The Nexus 4 has two main power circuits: 1) Battery Connector & Charging Circuit & 2) Wireless Charging GEN2 Circuit. These two work together with internal battery protection circuit as well. There are many controls going on while charging, such as current sensors, thermal sensors, voltage reference and voltage input detection. So basically it has been thought to avoid any problem if you happen to connect both charging supplies at the same time, as only one will act as the charger, and as far as I can understand the logic of it, it’s the USB charging that has priority over wireless charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! I think you are probably right, as I had this same thought just without the hardware knowledge of the device to come to a conclusion on it.

While you are at it (double charging your n4), make sure you connect the wire coming from your kite flying in the thunder and lightning outside. Triple charging beats double charging every time.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

jamesc760 said:
While you are at it (double charging your n4), make sure you connect the wire coming from your kite flying in the thunder and lightning outside. Triple charging beats double charging every time.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 and also find a way to plug the USB cable directly into the wall plug, don't use any adaptor. The extra voltage will speed things up. As far as you should be concerned the internal protection circuits will make it very safe. :good:

jamesc760 said:
While you are at it (double charging your n4), make sure you connect the wire coming from your kite flying in the thunder and lightning outside. Triple charging beats double charging every time.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the world's most powerful phone will born with unlimited power lol

Power on phone without battery

Anyone been able to turn on this phone and run it without a battery with permanent power?

Short answer: not possible.
Longer answer: You would need a pretty hefty engineering brain to figure this out, as the circuitry of the daughter board detects and adjusts the mainboards voltages and such, based on the battery output. When battery output is 0, meaning dead/removed battery, the daughter board doesn't supply voltages to the mainboard.
Now, you could replace the battery with a supercapacitor, but you'd need to have a pretty big one to output the current of a fully charged battery of the 6P - something around the 10kf mark, which IIRC from my university days, is roughly the size of 2 D-cell batteries or so. You'd then need to wire this all in, and even if you made it neat and 3D printed a new back, you went from a slim phone to a small brick. You'd also still need to provide current to charge the super capacitor, which doesn't use normal voltages like the charger and daughterboard can output, so you'd need to add in a voltage regulator board, wire that to the daughterboard, let the DB send current to the mainboard, and since this all outputs a lot of heat, now you run into a serious heating / cooling problem. Add a fan, a larger super capacitor to power said fan, and well, you now have something that looks like a bomb lol.
To touch further on the heat problem - my dash camera has a 10kf SC in it that I wired in instead of the crappy NiCad battery it came with. It was hot enough to keep the snow melted through the windshield on its own with 12v 1a current - roughly 20% of the current the wall charger of the 6p provides. It didn't keep the whole windshield free, rather, a spot large enough to let the camera do its thing without issue.

Thanks Wiltron for your reply. Doesn't seem worth it for me to go through that much trouble to be honest, besides, having something in your car that looks like a bomb these days will get me more attention than I want. I do have to say that I'm able to power the phone with just the charger connected, but up to a certain point, when the cpu spikes while booting it runs short of power and shuts off. Same thing when I'm fully booted into android, I disconnect the battery and it will stay running up to the point where I start some app or even just turn the phone on its side and the phone just goes dark. I'm thinking that the daughterboard does provide power to the motherboard without a battery, but just not enough. Do you think a heftier charger might overload the circuitry of the phone?

cbgreen said:
Do you think a heftier charger might overload the circuitry of the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can provide as much current as normal operations permit, however just make sure the cable and charger are official and supported, like Benson certified cables and a decent quality car charger like Anker.
Don't go crazy with the 50amp 120v brick chargers for cars, but don't grab the cheap ass gas station 0.5a 5v 4 for $10 special either
Tronsmart has good ones - I use one personally that has the certified USB C cable built into it.. minimal issues other than the thing does get hot

XT1575 suddenly charges very slowly

Could my work on my XT1575 cause the phone to charge very slowly? As long as I was using a good QC3 charger and a QC3-certified micro USB cable my MXPE phone charged fast. I have TWO working XT1575s. When plugged into the same charger with the same USB cable they both showed "Turbocharging" and both charged quickly.
Last week I replaced the back of one of the phones. -- exchanging the original back with an ebony wooden back. I had problems getting the ebony back to stay completely adhered so I installed it, removed it, installed it again with better adhesive. looks fine now.
Now, the back is securely in place BUT THE PHONE WON'T CHARGE FAST ANYMORE. Could I have damaged something in the phone while doing all that heating during the back replacement? I use a heat gun, always on the low setting, but I for the last installation I moved the heat pretty slowly around the back to increase the heat and hopefully improve the adhesion.
Everything about the phone works perfectly, both hardware and software. When I plug in a charging cable is shows "Turbocharging" but the charge time estimated by the phone is 7 or 8 or even 9 hours. That's about how long it takes too. And the phone won't charge past about 90%.
I've already replaced the battery. I have no idea how to further diagnose the problem. Have I effectively destroyed my phone while putting on a prettier back (to summarize how stupid I'd feel)?

lesdense said:
Could my work on my XT1575 cause the phone to charge very slowly? As long as I was using a good QC3 charger and a QC3-certified micro USB cable my MXPE phone charged fast. I have TWO working XT1575s. When plugged into the same charger with the same USB cable they both showed "Turbocharging" and both charged quickly.
Last week I replaced the back of one of the phones. -- exchanging the original back with an ebony wooden back. I had problems getting the ebony back to stay completely adhered so I installed it, removed it, installed it again with better adhesive. looks fine now.
Now, the back is securely in place BUT THE PHONE WON'T CHARGE FAST ANYMORE. Could I have damaged something in the phone while doing all that heating during the back replacement? I use a heat gun, always on the low setting, but I for the last installation I moved the heat pretty slowly around the back to increase the heat and hopefully improve the adhesion.
Everything about the phone works perfectly, both hardware and software. When I plug in a charging cable is shows "Turbocharging" but the charge time estimated by the phone is 7 or 8 or even 9 hours. That's about how long it takes too. And the phone won't charge past about 90%.
I've already replaced the battery. I have no idea how to further diagnose the problem. Have I effectively destroyed my phone while putting on a prettier back (to summarize how stupid I'd feel)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either you have a cheap low quality battery or you probably burnt it up with the heat gun. The NFC pad is on top of the battery if that still works then I highly doubt anything else was damaged but I could be wrong. Worse case scenario you desoldered something on the motherboard but I doubt it. First check the wattage on your wall charger if it says 5 volts and 1 Amp then that's your issue. Most wall chargers or USB ports I use have to be at least 5 volts and 2 amps or it will not charge and it'll actually get stuck at 90% like in your case because the charge rate slows down after 80% I believe and a crap wall charger won't have enough power to charge the phone like a high quality OEM wall charger would.