Related
I just bought a new Logitech mouse with tons of customizable buttons on it, and it got me thinking...what if you could use your PPC as a mouse for your PC? That would be the ultimate in customizability!! Think of it...not only would you have a bunch of hard buttons to play with, but you could also have a customized screen for whichever app has the focus on your PC!
I am nowhere near advanced enough to do this, nor do I know if it's even possible...just throwing it out there as an idea for whoever wants to take up the challenge. I figure it could work on most devices because the camera and flash LED are on the opposite side from the screen and buttons, and BT could be the wireless link. Heck, for that amount of customizability in a mouse I'd even settle for a wired USB version :wink:.
Well enough fantasizing for today...
you're talking about using the camera as the optical sensor?
you'd need it on a special mouse mat that emits light of some kind, and I doubt the feedback would be quick enough.
and i wouldn't fancy pushing my expensive xda around on the desk like a mouse.
Right, I was thinking of the camera as the optical sensor, and the flash LED as the light source. I have a XV6700/Apache, and when I turn on the camera and the flash and set it down on my desk, the screen isn't completely dark because the camera isn't flush against the surface...there's still enough space for light from the LED to reach the lens. Obviously this would vary from device to device...but even in cases where it's completely dark, you could put the "mouse" on top of a few mm of clear plastic or plexiglas to give the LED enough room to bounce the light over. Actually, this option might be desirable as it would address your concern about pushing your device around and getting scratches on it.
In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, using plastic/plexiglas might be better for battery life too. Instead of having the flash stay on all the time, the "mouse" could use the ambient room light to detect initial movement, which in turn would trigger a "wake event" for the flash, and then obviously the flash could be timed to turn off after so many seconds of being idle.
I know speed would likely be an issue as far as feedback goes. Sure, it wouldn't be as quick as my new Logitech laser mouse, but in video mode the camera (at least on the Apache) can go up to 19 fps...so perhaps it would be doable. Obviously you're not going to use Photoshop or play Quake with the thing . I was just thinking added convenience for everyday usage.
well all optical mice i've used have gon crazy on shiny surfaces
their cams are even made directly for this purpos
so i would think using the pda as a mouse would mean it would go even more crazy on a shiny surface
try search i recall posts about this in the past
Issues
light souce: prolong usage of you flash is bad. The life span of the flash may be different for different devices, but I'm pretty sure HTC doesn't give you a nice LED flash to be used for more than 30 seconds per usage. There are reports of 'dying' flash after using it as flashlight.
camera (major issue): phone camera is a fix lense camera (there are a few new Nokia/Sony model that arent). Such camera is not able to take clear picture of close distance object. Try taking a picture of something at a range of 3 inches , at best possible light condition. You won't get a decent picture. Even high tech digital camera is not able to take any picture of any object that is in range of less than 3 inches (even with Macro e.g. the flower, mode on). You can't do much 'mous-ing' with blur images.
It is a good idea though.
just an idea, but what about just using it as a touch pad??
dahquim
Very expensive mouse :lol:
Just get an optical RF mouse.. so much cheaper..
Come to think of it, better get a bluetooth mouse that you can use with both your PC and PPC!
Hmm, I don't know. I just imagined a Universal used as a mouse. Not a pretty picture.
Any way, as for the touch pad idea, it's fairly easy to implement, but it doesn't have the resolution to handle even blow average PC screen which is 800x600 pixels.
hanmin said:
Even high tech digital camera is not able to take any picture of any object that is in range of less than 3 inches (even with Macro e.g. the flower, mode on). You can't do much 'mous-ing' with blur images.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so let's say you have a clear glass desk and you attach a board underneath it at a distance of 3 inches so it can focus... j/k
levenum said:
as for the touch pad idea, it's fairly easy to implement, but it doesn't have the resolution to handle even blow average PC screen which is 800x600 pixels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think dahquim meant "touch pad" to mean "tablet PC" or a remote touch-screen clone of your PC monitor (you can do that with LogMeIn). I think he meant simply losing the "mouse" functionality and keeping the ability to have the device's screen display "soft buttons" that could execute commands and that would change depending on whichever app has the focus on your PC. That would somewhat relieve one of having to remember different keyboard shortcuts for each different PC app you use. Same idea as the Optimus Keyboard but on a smaller scale.
touchpad.. ?
Touchpad idea is nice - it could work just like touchpads on laptop; ie. moving finger on mobile device screen causes mouse cursor to move on PC screen, tapping mobile device screen causes mouse click.... who'll implement this ? ;-)
hanmin said:
Issues
light souce: prolong usage of you flash is bad. The life span of the flash may be different for different devices, but I'm pretty sure HTC doesn't give you a nice LED flash to be used for more than 30 seconds per usage. There are reports of 'dying' flash after using it as flashlight.
camera (major issue): phone camera is a fix lense camera (there are a few new Nokia/Sony model that arent). Such camera is not able to take clear picture of close distance object. Try taking a picture of something at a range of 3 inches , at best possible light condition. You won't get a decent picture. Even high tech digital camera is not able to take any picture of any object that is in range of less than 3 inches (even with Macro e.g. the flower, mode on). You can't do much 'mous-ing' with blur images.
It is a good idea though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hanmin was right pointing these issues. i'll add some more, from a developer's point of view:
-so you want to have this as a wireless device: think of the power consumption: on one hand you need the camera to be on, with the led, and also a wireless connection for transmitting the data like BT or WiFi.. The baterry wont last long
-even if we cant get the camera to focus at nearly 1-2mm, we could still detect movement of some kind (so the idea would work..in a way or another :roll: ). but please note: there are tens of types of devices, you cant get to make the trick for all.
-it wouldnt be very precise: did you even tried to create an icon? you need to tap over the right pixel, do you think it will work with this?
-ok so you're a fanatic gamer : poor device and poor you, on one hand you'll ruing the device, on the other you'll go nuts because... : slow reaction times, low accuracy...
I see that you've thought about the idea of creating a touchpad out of the pocketpcs. I worked on such a project once. It was indeed interesting. The only problem was that: (issues again)
-the screen is not so sensitive to finger pressure as a touchpad is
-you'll mostly have to use the stilus
But at least this approach is functional.
Regards,
Radu
Yes was thinking more the "set of buttons on [email protected] that let you do quick and easy thinkgs to whatever program your using.
For example, how about being able to switch virtual desktops or having a list of programs on the ppc screen that you switch between... a la Alt-Tab??
just ideas, but of course would be completely customisable (macro buttons)
dahquim
Looks like this guy got the concept up and running on his Nokia...
http://www.pyrofersprojects.com/nokiamouse.php
Hi all,
For some reason the search function is not working for me (xp/firefox 1.5) as it always returns null searches.
Anyway, apologies if this has been discussed already in detail...
I'm almost ready to go ahead and buy the Advantage having researched numerous reviews online.
Everyone is in agreement its a marvellous device, let down by one main aspect... the keyboard.
Many report that the keys have very limited tactile feedback and one reviewer commented that the keyboard felt very rubbery like the old spectrum keyboard, making it sluggish for typing on.
I would see this as being a pretty major drawback, effectively slowing productively on a regular basis.
I currently use a Nokia E61 for work, and, while it has a small thumboard, tactility is excellent and with some practice, its responsive and fast.
While the larger keyboard is welcome on the Advantage I would really like to hear users opinions and thoughts, good bad or indifferent, about the keyboard in daily use.
Thanks!
i think the keyboard is much better than reviewed all the time. it has no definite pressure point but still you only have to touch it a little bit so you don't really need the pressure point anyway. i haven't typed anything wrong yet. quite impressive.
but still i think that the athena itself has a far too deep (and bad) when the keyboard is attached, if you wanna type in bed f.e. it's hard to see the screen right and good.
so keyboard is really good, but angle between keyboard and display isn't good for use with both hands, in bed etc. (just on a high table).
sry, don't really know how to say it in english.
I'm still prefer the keyboard of Universal's.....and it turns out I carried the U1000 without the Keyboard 90% of time.
BR
Tommy
I too prefer the Universal keyboard compared to Advantage keyboard. Not only for the typing (little "click" with Universal, nothing with Advantage), but for the number of keys as well. In fact in Universal keyboard the number 1 to 0 are typed directly, instead in Advantage you need the function key before.
On Universal there are more symbols that availlable directly from the keyboard (with or without the function key).
But, considering all, I can give to my Advantage keyboard a rate of 6.5 (in a range from 1 to 10) and to Universal keyboard a rate of 8.
Can we all look into the possibility of using a bluetooth keyboard..I think it will b a very useful companion with Athena
Cheers guys. I'll probably end up using my Think Outside BT keyboard which has served me well over the past couple of years. It seems a waste to use it though when you have a magnetic keyboard which also doubles as a screen protector.. and its another thing to carry and have spare batteries for.. I hope they introduce a more tactile feedback into future revisions..
I don't think I'd mind the fact that the number keys are not on the top row. Its an inconvenience but means more room for qwerty (and I'm used to it from the E61 layout).
Speaking of room..
Advantage looks just a little too cramped for 2 handed typing effectively so are you guys holding it like a thumbboard or huntin'/peckin' with two fingers while it lays flat on a desk..?
it's very, very tough to hold it like thumbboard (as I said before) , so most of the time I use it while it lays flat on a desk (which should be high enough to see the whole screen while typing because of the bad angle).
I really dislike the keyboard, since it has absolutely no tactile feedback. It's very odd to type, and I make many errors. It was even nicer, and faster using the keyboard that came with my Cingular 8525, and I dislike Thumbboards. It does make a good stand when watching media, though!
I don't mind the keyboard for occasional use - you certainly wouldn't want to type an essay on it, but a quick e-mail, txt or even a forum post doesn't stress too much. Its easier than the soft keyboard on the screen anyway.
The bits that I don't like, are:- the telephone dial button is in the wrong place (top left) - I'll quite often start dialing someone, just because ive caught the button by accident as I'm holding the device up.
And sometimes it can get the caps lock stuck on, and I cant work out a consistent way of turning it off (usually a press of the dot, then the caps key does it, but not always).
Other than that, not too bad.
They keyboard sucks. The key spacing is all wrong. I continualy hit the wrong letter. For a good touch typist this is torture.
The lack of numbers it pathetic too. The universal fitted a considerably better keyboard into it.
The good thing? There is nothing to stop people making replacement keyboards!
I want a keyboard that works better as a screen protector, because if I dont use that stupid leather wallet, everytime I put it in my pocket, the keyboard slips off and scratches the screen itself.
Now, I look like something out of the 1980's with a huge leather filo-fax thing.
A good keyboard would be complete case, with flip up screen protector (or slide up) and a kb that flips around from the back (the contacts are wired such that its always connected when not totally flat on the back) meaning you can have it at any angle.
Hinge the KB at the bottom corners and screen protector at the top corner. It could be a complete life saver.
ok the keyboard in Athena is completely useless. Universal one is much better. I made so much typing error because I had to press hard on the keyboard. It is not responsive enough. Whenever I wanted to type fast, I kept on missing a character such as the A character. Even my Fitaly soft keyboard is 3x better.
It is annoying having to carry keyboard all the time because you need that to keep U1000 in the leather casing closed nicely together. but that is about it.
I too agree that the keyboard is next to useless. I've been using it purely as a way to hold up the unit at home, so that it looks like a PC instead of the screen lying flat. I still much prefer to use the enlarged on-screen keyboard. For more specialised typing such as word documetn, I have my Full Screen Kyboard activated hardware button that was once used for starting the browser. In that way, I can alway call up the Full Screen Keyboard anytime I need.
I don't actually carry my keyboard around. I've designed and made a belt pouch myself (yes, using my old notebook carrying case's materials) which can either take both the unit and keyboard or just the keyboard. In either case, I don't put the leather case into my pouch. It works very well for me.
At home, I would like to look for either a BT or USB keyboard.
Hmmm....
But for me athena keyboard still useful even not as good as universal one. But i still can feel it...
Actually I kinda like it.
Its better than I expected it to be. Rarely misses a key when I'm typing. I'm coming at this from keyboardless pdas though so can't compare with other smartphones (except Nokia 9300 which was ok but I actually think this is better.)
Its certainly handy having it there and it makes the pda sturdy when you want it sat up just to see the screen while playing music, watching movies etc.
I think all the above comments on the keyboard, the some good, and the some bad, are valid.
That being said, I do not think it's a deal breaker to not get the Athena. In addition, it can't be a deal breaker, as there are no alternatives. Yes, if all other things were remaining equal, and there was another device identical, except for a better keyboard, I'd obviously opt for it, even at a higher cost.
But, I LOVE the Athena. It is the portable computing device (plus GPS) that I've been hoping for. And I use in in CONJUNCTION with another phone (a Blackberry Pearl, for now). Comparing it to TyTN or the like, are too different. It runs faster than handheld pocket PCs, seems more stable, and quite frankly, when you mix too much usage at one time, like a phone, GPS, and PocketPC, is too much for any device. This is a PC with 3g data first, then maybe a GPS, and THEN a phone.
I have no complaints. I use it a good 3-4 hours a day instead of my laptop. It's good for emails and simple word/excel editing. Makes me able to sneak about without anyone noticing.
It could have had a little more tactile feedback, but the lack of it makes it dead quiet instead, which in my opinion is a wonderful thing.
I'm sure someone will make use of the extra space between keys... ie moving the main keys closer together and adding a numeric keypad somewhere in there. I wouldn't mind.
Perhaps make them round, and with a groove in the middle of each key so when the keys are tightly put together you still have high accuracy speed typing.
I'm used to the Wizard and Hermes, and they both have keyboards that give a little more response than Athenas keyboard. However, I see that this also is a good idea if you want to use the keyboard when you are en a meeting or in a lecture, or whereever you are where you have to be quiet.
anyone has tried Thinkoutside bluetooth keyboard with U1000 yet?
No, but I have tried the Freedom Keyboard (www.freedomkeyboard.com), and it works perfectly.
It's a little smaller than a normal qwerty-keyboard so it takes a little to get used to it, but I think it is rather good.
The Stowaway Travel Mouse also works perfectly.
If we are gonna go for Bluetooth keyboards, try the Apple PRO full qwerty kb. Its nice. I used it on my Nokia770, and my XDAII easily.
Not tried on the Athena, but no reason it shouldnt work. Great for using when you are at home/office for typing. Just dont expect to carry it around.
Hey everyone...
I'm currently working on a school project to re-design the housing of a pda.. I've decided to use the 8125 as my base. I've just recently started researching and learning about the software. I plan on upgrading to WM6, adding Touchflo, and whatever mods seem interesting. I was curious if you all had any suggestions as far as improving the overall original design. I'll be making two phones. One being a slide with a rotating screen feature, and two being a thin, non-slide, full touchscreen model similar to the HTC Touch. Any suggestions you all have would be great to work with and put into my research report. Keep in mind I can change just about every physical aspect of the phone, speakers, battery, buttons, ect... Thanks very much guys.. Looking forward to some intersting feedback..
they never did stuff like that when I was at school!
I would change the D pad because the up button has to be quite precise, maybe make it with a bit more relief.
Also would move the speakers from the side because I tend to cover them when I hold the phone (thumb covers right side, forefinger covers left) in my left hand. possibly put them on front.
I use infra red a bit and sometimes wish it was on top of the device instead of the side.
good luck with the project.
Edit: nearly forgot to say move the stylus silo from the bottom then if it goes loose (they all do) then it wont fall out as easily.
some pics would be nice when its done.
Sounds good.... Thanks you for the reply. I'll definately post photos when I finish.
I always liked the "tablet" design of the Universal...if you could make it a little less bulky. Of course I've never used that device, but it theory it seemed cool.
Well since you said that it will be using TouchFlow my first bit of advice would to be to make the screen flush with the housing. The biggest issue I have with the Wizard when it comes being finger friendly is hitting the X/ok key in the upper right corner. If the screen was flush with the casing this wouldnt be an issue.
Another thing would be to switch out the mini audio jack on the bottom with a standard headphone jack. I know that you might loose the ability to use a mic with headphones but it would be a small price to pay for the ability to use a nice set of phones without the need for an adapter sticking out the bottom. Not to mention that Bluetooth would take care of the need for a headphone with mic.
I read in one of the tech user manuals for the Wizard that there is a 2megapixel CCD for the phone along with the stand 1.3mp. Im not sure of the validity of this, but if you can get your hands on it that might be pretty nice.
Adding a more powerful IR to the phone and placing it at the top would be a nice touch as well. Would be nice to have the TV remote function with this phone.
Im sure Ill think of some other things, and Ill post them here as well.
PS another Idea would be to use the hardware listed here... pretty cheap if you ask me. http://www.compulab.co.il/x270em/html/x270-em-datasheet.htm
Good luck.
Awsome... Thanks very much for the suggestions... I checked out the Compulab Embeded phone... However, the minimum quantity they will sell is 1000 units. It would make for a nice base though...
HTC advertizes the x7501's weight to be 359gr, with battery. Is this weight with the keyboard included too ?
How much does the keyboard weigh ?
Thanks.
on my old kitchen scales I get 375 with the KB and 300 without it, my scales are hardly precisely callibrated though.
This is very interesting, if correct.
Assuming one does not want to carry the keyboard, then the Athena's weight becomes similar to a HTC TILT with a leather case (those leather cases, even those with minimalist design, are ~100 grams, and the TILT is another 190 grams, so it totals to 290 grams).
So assuming you can carry the Athena inside a large pants pocket without a case and keyboard...
(just thinking whether I should get into the Athena).
it's a fab phone and I love it, but it is huge and 1 handed operation is out of the question, so texting on the move is a chore.
You have to use a bluetooth headset because talking directly into the device is unfeasible, and now im looking a getting one of those bluetooth vibing watches to let me know who/when is calling, as it is awkward to get it out your pocket and open it up to screen your calls, and it has no vibrate function.
I agree the HTC 7500/7501 is an awesome phone. Although big its pretty manageable. What some ppl don't know is (I found this out by accident) if you get a "Good" cover for it it will have a small clear cutout where you can see who is calling and other info through the clear plastic of the keyboard. You cant see this with the factory HTC cover but an aftermarket one will...TJ
One handed operation
I have acheived a sort of one-handed operation - I have a Peil Frama case now (cases.com offered them for about US$85).
I have small hands, and in a pinch can stick my right hand/fingers between the case and the unit and can operate it in portrait mode with my thumb, everything except the camera button. if I need to operate the joystick, I have to pre-position my hand for it and then can't reach the commMgr, IE, & power key. It's not terrbly stable, but I can do it in a pinch if I really need to.
Side note: I was having trouble keeping the unit sliding up the unit with the keyboard attached, so I coated the inside (just where, and entirely where the actual unit is, so you can't see any of the gluey-ness while the unit is in it; I still have trouble making sure the case doesn't get stuck to itself when I take the unit out of it, and it's hard to put in and take out, but it's worth it to me, and removeable with some friction- it's rubber cement. It helps my hand stay in, too.
I'm thinking about designing and making a case with a hand strap so that units like this could be one-handed. Would anyone be interested if I could get it to a saleable standard?
im not sure if this is a widespread issue most most of us. as we are all using SHIELD for different forms of entertainment. but i have noticed that with running just about any game designed for digital input, the D-pad is almost useless.
let me explain:
when playing say, Super Mario World. 90% of the time you're always holding "right" on the D-pad because thats the direction of game play. but for some reason you have to REALLY try to only push on the right input of the D-pad. reason being the sensitivity of the D-pad is so strong the if you ever so slightly start to push "down" even in this slightest, Mario will duck and stop running... its sooo f&%$*ng annoying!
this problem is not limited to this game alone, obviously. but to test to see if i was over reacting i popped in the SNES cart in my SNES console (along with many other titles) and had no issues whatsoever with controls on my SNES controller.
then even to run more "tests" to see if i was going crazy i had my brother (also a "old school" gamer) try out my his favorite game Contra. for test purity i never mentioned my thoughts on the D-pad to him, but after 3min of playing he looked at me a said "is there any way you can adjust the sensitivity of the D-pad? on this thing?"
i even had my Mom try out her fav, Tetris and her thoughts were similar... input errors....
so i ether have a unit that has some sort of defect and im completely alone here on this forum? or maybe there are a few more of you out there with this same problem.
well i might just maybe have a solution...
here is the PCB for the shield:
here is the PCB of a SNES controller: (my favorite controller )
here is the mod im planing:
so for clarification, the RED is where i plan to paint over or shave down the conductive contact materal on the PCB. this should in theory make the contact area act more like the D-pad us old school gamers are familiar with. so instead of the contacts kind of "weaving" its more like the 1/2 circles contact patch seen on the button side of the PCB.
i feel this may be a pretty easy mod for most of us and there is already a handy teardown via ifixit:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nvidia+Shield+Teardown/16212/1
thought?
suggestions?
Sounds interesting.
I'd suggest starting with something non-permanent like cutting a piece of tape to size and using that first to make sure it does what you expect.
Also take a look at the d-pad contacts and make sure that those are large enough to still complete the circuit.
I don't actually own a shield but had the same issue with the xbox 360 controller and fighting games. Let us know if it actually works.
masterfud said:
Sounds interesting.
I'd suggest starting with something non-permanent like cutting a piece of tape to size and using that first to make sure it does what you expect.
Also take a look at the d-pad contacts and make sure that those are large enough to still complete the circuit.
I don't actually own a shield but had the same issue with the xbox 360 controller and fighting games. Let us know if it actually works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good points. the D-pad does move (or skate?) from side to side about 1/8-1/4" inside the housing. so id need to make sure the D-pad contact pad will still hit both sides of the PCB contacts at the furthest positions to complete the circuit.
i was thinking the paint might be better for the short term test, as tape might "smudge" out of the way during a heated game like streetfighter?
if the idea works id prob scrape away the unwanted conductive material (the lines marked in red) with a hobby knife for a more durable and permanent solution.
only thing im worried about is the pressure needed for circuit closing will change from having the contacts painted (raised up surface) vs taking down the unwanted material (lowered surface) when referenced to the actual contact material we are actually trying to hit. not sure if that is easy to explain without pictures.
Don't do it. Electronics hobbyist here.
Those buttons are a digital 0 or 1. No sensitivity there. The rubber mat underneath the keys simply contacts against both sets of PCB contacts to connect them. No resistance or capacitance readings occur, its either connected or not connected. Shaving the contacts probably wont change that very much. You want to inhibit the contact between PCB and rubber mat from occuring without increased force which your proposed hack wont do to a great extent.
The problem would be purely mechanical in nature, ie the exact way the buttons being mounted perhaps allowing for unintended wobble and as a result perhaps if you shift your thumb forwards and back a bit the rubber mats for the up and down arrows may well come into contact.
A better solution would be to adjust the height between the PCB and the rubber mat, not a simple task. Perhaps the underside of the buttons have some sort of plastic nub which if filed down a tiny amount might work and require a harder press to force the mat down, not sure. Not reversible though.
Or a very thing piece of sponge with 4 holes cut aligning with the PCB contact area (but ever so slightly smaller) would cause a greater force to be required on the buttons while still allowing the buttons to contact. I would sketch what I mean but my skills with drawing on a PC are non existent and I have neither a scanner or camera right now.
I would actually lean towards experimenting with the sponge method, actually inspired by me working my way through a tin of biscuits while playing Xbox one morning and getting crumbs in the controller, started to require alot more force on the A button to get it to work. Open the controller and biscuit crumbs were everywhere preventing the buttons moving properly. Sponge should have the same effect but reversibly and cheaply. Namely, take a kitchen sponge and cut it up a bit, 2mm thick sections perhaps. Kitchen sponges are cheap anyway, pretty sure I saw a 10 pack in a £1 store once, experiment to your hearts desire.
---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
Come to think of it. If you put paint on the area in between the contacts then that may work.
Your not going to be able to reliably fix this without altering the feel of the buttons sadly. I think they should have gone for tactile switches on the DPad, they are generally perfect for this.
It is the DPad skate which I believe is causing this.
less permanent if you want to try it is white glue spread with a toothpick. you can wipe that off carefully with a bit of alcohol or water.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Don't do it. Electronics hobbyist here.
Those buttons are a digital 0 or 1. No sensitivity there. The rubber mat underneath the keys simply contacts against both sets of PCB contacts to connect them. No resistance or capacitance readings occur, its either connected or not connected. Shaving the contacts probably wont change that very much. You want to inhibit the contact between PCB and rubber mat from occuring without increased force which your proposed hack wont do to a great extent.
The problem would be purely mechanical in nature, ie the exact way the buttons being mounted perhaps allowing for unintended wobble and as a result perhaps if you shift your thumb forwards and back a bit the rubber mats for the up and down arrows may well come into contact.
A better solution would be to adjust the height between the PCB and the rubber mat, not a simple task. Perhaps the underside of the buttons have some sort of plastic nub which if filed down a tiny amount might work and require a harder press to force the mat down, not sure. Not reversible though.
Or a very thing piece of sponge with 4 holes cut aligning with the PCB contact area (but ever so slightly smaller) would cause a greater force to be required on the buttons while still allowing the buttons to contact. I would sketch what I mean but my skills with drawing on a PC are non existent and I have neither a scanner or camera right now.
I would actually lean towards experimenting with the sponge method, actually inspired by me working my way through a tin of biscuits while playing Xbox one morning and getting crumbs in the controller, started to require alot more force on the A button to get it to work. Open the controller and biscuit crumbs were everywhere preventing the buttons moving properly. Sponge should have the same effect but reversibly and cheaply. Namely, take a kitchen sponge and cut it up a bit, 2mm thick sections perhaps. Kitchen sponges are cheap anyway, pretty sure I saw a 10 pack in a £1 store once, experiment to your hearts desire.
---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
Come to think of it. If you put paint on the area in between the contacts then that may work.
Your not going to be able to reliably fix this without altering the feel of the buttons sadly. I think they should have gone for tactile switches on the DPad, they are generally perfect for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you as well.
i am aware this is a "on / off" situation. but the weaving of the PCB contact material makes for a very light press to be needed for circut closing. (my sensitivity problem)
the "sponge method" is also something i thought about. i wanted to source some other D-pads from other controllers to try this but im not sure how a modded one would hold up to button mashing in the long run. so it would basically have to be almost identical dimensions to work.
ive been trying to source SHILED parts to experiment with. but the guy i was speaking with has family obligations tying him up right now. so...
i do really like the feel of the controller. they did a awesome job. but i just wish the PCB contact layout was identical to the NES/SNES controllers. as in with the a, b, x, y buttons being the more sensitive (weaved) contacts and the D-pad being the less sensitive 1/2 circle style once.
i wish i was just being picky here but i just flat out cant play any retro games in the current state. 15 years of muscle memory just doesn't go away.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
It is the DPad skate which I believe is causing this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree. its a lot of movement...
i can center the D-pad and game play is much better for a few seconds till it moves again. in fairness, every D-pad (SNES, SEGA, Etc) does skate a little (except for PSX). the SHIELD is by far the one with the most movement.
for ppl not understanding what we mean by the D-pad "skate" here is a very crappy rez vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYj5-L02fiI&feature=youtu.be&noredirect=1
s0me guy said:
i agree. its a lot of movement...
i can center the D-pad and game play is much better for a few seconds till it moves again. in fairness, every D-pad (SNES, SEGA, Etc) does skate a little (except for PSX). the SHIELD is by far the one with the most movement.
for ppl not understanding what we mean by the D-pad "skate" here is a very crappy rez vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYj5-L02fiI&feature=youtu.be&noredirect=1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My PSP has quite a bit of DPad skate. But the centre point of the Dpad does seem to stay centred, it just seems to rotate on the spot if you know what I mean. It skates but it remains perfectly usable.
to stop the skate we could find (make?) rubber grommets to fit around the mounting holes for the screwdowns (yellow circles are the tips). they would act as sleeves or bumpers keeping the plastic D-pad assembly centered.
i have no idea where i would even look for a part like this... McMaster? lol
http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber-bumper-spacers/=o6yfz8
That centre nub between the 4 screws. They should have made that larger or the hole in the rubber piece smaller so that they match size better. I reckon that the cause of the skate is that nub.
just realized i should probably stop brainstorming using the images from ifixit as a reference.
they could have quite possibly used a different pre production unit and it might be nothing like the final public retail units. i know there were a few different revisions along the way (D-pad included).
guess ill have to try to find time to tear this down over the weekend. i've been hesitating up until this point mostly because our 1mth old baby requires a lot of attention ( who would have thought? ).
id just hate to have this thing half taken apart get sidetracked and forget were i was... lol
i can easily see this mod taking up an entire saturday to get 100% working without a newborn.
oh yeah, this D-pad is really really ****ty...
delete..
MUCH BETTER! :victory:
now to fix the skate issue!
wow... it feels much better? so you DID it. nice! :good::laugh:
I want to try in once, too
david419kr said:
wow... it feels much better? so you DID it. nice! :good::laugh:
I want to try in once, too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea now its much more like the other D-pads im used to. (NES, SNES, N64, PSx, PS2, Gameboy, NDSlite)
i swapped the button diaphragms also. as the A B X Y button side Diaphragm has a small hold in the middle of it and it tends to minimise the "skate" issue.
BEFORE
AFTER
BEFORE
AFTER
all in all id say these mods made the D-Pad 100x better, but its still not perfect. i still make input errors all the time. but its nowhere near as bad as it was. the main issue thats still present is that the D-pad is acting like a rocker more than a switch. so when you press dead center on the "right" arrow on the D-pad the diaphragm on the "right" contact is pressed down 100% and the "up" & "down" contacts are pressed 75% down (almost touching but not making contact). but... it you ever so slightly press off of dead center on any arrow the contacts next to the one you're pressing end up touching. then your input becomes a 45deg. input instead of a 90deg one.
i honestly don't know how to fix this without designing a different bottom half of the D-pad assembly. my current idea is to take a D-pad from a Donor SNES controller (its dimensions are pretty close on the bottom side), grind off the "arrow pad" and attach the remaining bottom portion to the SHIELD's "arrow pad". since the SNES bottom part has more of a Dome shape than a flat one like the SHIELD it will have more bias to the direction your inputting and less Bias to the directions on either side of that direction.
descriptive pic coming soon
my main issues is right now everything i do is a MAJOR commitment because i have no access to Extra SHILED parts. if i mess up... well thats it... so...
hopefully the guy i was talking to about getting extra parts will get back to me soon. i also was talking with a guy who has a 3D printer that may be able to print the modded D-pad for us after its complete. :fingers-crossed:
also i might add that i used 2000grit sand paper to rough up the surfaces on the D-pad & buttons. the glossy-ness of them got very slippery after a few minutes of gaming as the finger oils build up.
they have WAY MORE grip now and the matte finish is much more appealing over the Gloss finish. :victory:
this has been already kind of talked about in a few other threads with users complaining of "screws falling out" but i would also would like to stress to anyone disassembling their SHIELD to be very very VERY careful with the threads. it seems about half my screws were slightly over tightened from the factory and i have some slight stripping going on.
the build up of plastic dust on the one screw in this pic is not something you want to see. as the less plastic there is in the threads, means the less "meat" the screw can grab on to. in-turn that means the less torque can be applied to fasten the 2 parts which can lead to movement and then internal ware... i may have to find slightly bigger screws then drill and tap all the holes...
Makes you wonder how this got past QA testing. I also have the same problem with a newly purchased Shield and it makes emulators difficult to use (unless you map stuff to the analog stick)
georaldc said:
Makes you wonder how this got past QA testing. I also have the same problem with a newly purchased Shield and it makes emulators difficult to use (unless you map stuff to the analog stick)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
emulators were probably not something they were heavily focused on and all the testers probably were more worried about "feel" than function. IMO if you are able to think about the controller during game play, its not made right.
i hate to sound like a whiny brat or something here but if i wanted a sub par experience i would have stuck a $40 Moga controller on my Galaxy S3 or somthing. i mean isn't the point of SHIELD to be a premium product for a Niche market? and isnt the controllers function the most important part of the "function" of SHIELD? sure nice screens and speakers are great and a part of the experience... but what does it matter if you cant play the the thing. you may as well use a GameKlip and android Phone.
its like driving a highend sports car on all season tires. all kinds of awesome engineering and power thats just frustrating to drive cuz you cant keep the thing on the road.