This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.
I definitely agree with Art3mis on this one. Its ridiculous that they are still allowed to have support threads (and more that they even have support threads instead of just having them all on their own private forums as they either, didnt follow the rules of XDA, or left at their own accord).
Yeah it annoys me that bonsai still has support threads here.
you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
art3mis-nyc said:
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
on that same note i agree there should be a direct link...and i mean a real direct link....not a redirect to sign up or a redirect to an ad page or anything like that...the rest of your article i agree 100%
Then don't click on the thread?? Is it really that hard?
art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me......(other stuff)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get off your high horse. You are no dev (not even cut and paste) and no mod.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
XDA doesn't allow software that breaks the rules or off-site competition, but they allow discussion of said software. Kind of counter-intuitive, really.
Rodderik said:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he means other websites hotlinking to XDA.
All the Bonsai support threads are gone, and have been for a long while. The only thing left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users. Everyone knows where to go for dev support when it comes to Bonsai.
But there are a couple reasons why the thread exists. First off, it doesn't break any XDA rules. They would have to break their own rules or create new ones to get rid of it. The other reason is XDA does not want to remove it. Anything that is considered controversial gets hits. The more hits, the better for advertising revenue . Every time someone tries to start a Bonsai hate thread of *****es about why it exists, people come along and either argue or agree with the OP. XDA does not care one way or the other, they get paid the same.
As Randy stated here-
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15035075&postcount=1026
He has made every attempt to work things out, but it has been a one way process.
Deleted. Counter productive.
Sent from me!
tl;dr
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
I understand xda's motives for disallowing closed source stuff in the forums. But banning everyones ability to talk about sites outside of the forum is ridiculous. Thats like saying "we encourage and love open source" but "we hate open (source) communication".
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.
Rodderik said:
you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is more in relation to say i started a "forum" for Superawesomeroms.com and then i have nothing to post so all i do is post links to XDA threads all the while bemoaning and berating XDA for thier crap moderation and blah blah blah blah
Well, I for one post my content here, ppcgeeks, and ACS. Obviously most of the traffic I get is here.
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site. I was on ppcgeeks a few months before xda, and found xda through a link off their site. I also link back to xda quite often when I'm trying to help other on another site. What that shows me is that other sites linking back to xda drives traffic here.
Traffic=revenue. Guess I don't see the problem with that.
art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.
If any threads should be deleted it is ones talking about other phones. There are forums for those. This is the Samsung Epic forum, that is the phone I have chosen for 2 years and only want to see threads about those. If an accessory or ROM is avaliable off XA for it, I want to know about it. I don't give a crap about the EVO 3d or Within or any otherstupid little phone that comes out. XDA has a general forum for that and most of these have their own forums. Don't clutter our threads with that garbage, or whiny kids saying "it's official our phone is a piece of crap"! This is the clutter that needs to be removed. Not a single thread for an offsite ROM.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
icevapor said:
I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really it's a valid argument, and while you dont see it, BW useage etc is a hit when it supports items that arent on the site itself.
icevapor said:
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some very fine work perhaps the best work as far as the epic goes, is from people that do it for fun and hobby, and dont ask for donations and in some cases dont even have a link for it, yet others believe as you do apperantly that they should be able to take the others work, rename it and change it and "sell" it(ie the Bonsai clockworkmod that they simply renamed and recoloured) as noted i'm fine with charging for support, it's the software i dont like the charging to exist for.
icevapor said:
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between that and this is that the Opensource lives along side, doesnt require a signup and in most cases is "on par" with the pay version, again you're paying for support, which im fine with, but the software is available to all or none, not to who pays.(minus some features of course but rarely advanced beta copies etc)
icevapor said:
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't think of a single thing that has been contributed back, aside from the kernel fiasco for marcusants "psuedo rom"
icevapor said:
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ppcgeeks was the first site that i noticed it on and while it's not directed specifically at them, they are guilty of the above mentioned content links.
i'm not scared of negativity
and you shouldn't be either
if discussing negativity means thats all you will end up with
then ask yourself who is the real source of negativity?
deciding your fate...premonitions?
let it roll
if you never go there...you will never get it out of your system
and i'm sure thats why anyone would participate in this thread to begin with
so do it, and dig deep
just try and be as respectful as possible in your aims
dont cloud this life with misconstrued karma
if you cannot understand someones apparent stance and it appears ignorant or childish,
then try and be the bigger person and post something constructive they can actually do
otherwise you are just bickering for the sake of it
before i get too far off topic
if xda's main goal is truly web traffic...then thats what the userbase is going to comprise of...otherwise you are just out of place and belong elsewhere.
if you are just part of traffic then dont claim to be a leader with every post you make
and vise versa...dont get lost in the traffic when you know damn well you have something to offer the community that is truly valuable. Everyone has a part to play, dont care how many babies are born today.
If in fact this is truly xda's goal...who knows...the site is large...plenty of room for emotion to find its way in.
Life is useful. (dental dams are your friend)
And above all...hitler was nothing compared to billions the russians killed of their own people...
History...it owns people every day.
Stand for something better than the illegitimate use/abuse of people.
Especially when most of these things being created are not very reliable and designed to support jobs and sales and an economy and false hopes and everything that goes along with a society that throws its lives to the foothold of a dollar bill that is utterly useless in the reality of the universe.
Real answers are not easy...take the time as much as you possibly can.
LISTEN
and when you think you cannot take anymore without putting in your two cents
LISTEN SOME MORE
there are plenty of people just hanging around that have been through it all and seen it
and you can stop acting anytime like you are one of them
real life steps in before anyone could ever make a worthwhile decision
humans...making decisions for others since breakfast
tough titties?
we'll see who's talking then...when?
the sooner the sooner
mattallica76 said:
The only thing [Bonsai] left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users.
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Click to collapse
I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
shane6374 said:
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site.
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Click to collapse
This is perhaps the most important point of the thread. However it happened, xda became the definitive resource for phone hackery. If xda were to forbid off-site hotlinking, that would have the result, both direct (PageRank, robots exclusion, etc.) and indirect (through absence of news articles and other discussion) of sinking it in search results. At which point--at best--some other site would become definitive and discussion would move there, or quite possibly, no one site would emerge as definitive and discussion would become horribly fragmented.
To be honest, the primary reason I post patches here with lengthy technical descriptions is becuase, in 3-6 months time, I know someone Googling a similar problem will come across my threads and find an answer. The fact that it also contributes code to this community is a wonderful secondary benefit, but to be honest, discussion and ROM development is too ephemeral to make it worth the effort if Google wasn't around to archive the result. And it's far easier for me to do it here, and gets far more exposure and use, than if I were to run my own blog or something.
ptfdmedic said:
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah yeah, pedantic argument.
ptfdmedic said:
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
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Click to collapse
oh im not bent out of shape, that post would have been a lot more incoherent if i was.
ptfdmedic said:
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's called an example. Happens to be the most obvious so it's used.
btw i did contact them directly and thats how i came to the quote from randy stating that Bonsai is not a hobby it's a business.
and then the tired out saying of "i for one like to pay for good software rant" while touting the virtues of opensource.(<3 me some hypocrites)
ptfdmedic said:
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this isn't negative unless you read it that way, i honestly want it to change, and to find out WHY it exists.
People commenting and saying we should "all get along" sadly contribute nothing(good nor bad) to a thread.
mkasick said:
I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would think so, but the same can't be said towards heros' rom, many threads are started to talk about it are quickly killed and its poster banned.. so it's sort of a double edged.
I just went to the Samsung site looking for their Customer Forums where could report some bugs in their latest OTA and suggest some improvements.
THERE ARE NONE.
Seriously, a multi-billion dollar company with NO way for their customers to interact, get problems solved or make suggestions. Nothing. It is inconceivable to me that in the year 2012 a company the size of Samsung would be in the stone ages of customer interaction.
Want to know how they get customer feedback? You log on and post a review of the product. That's it! No interaction, no feedback, no idea if anyone even saw what you wrote - you just post a review and pray.
Yeah you can go to Samsung's Facebook page and post something on their wall but that's not a proper forum.
http://www.facebook.com/samsungsupport
I am honestly dumbfounded at this revelation.
They do it on social media. In a pretty big way too.
Surely, in your research of the GN 10.1, you found that out - I did. They do have a question and answer area.
A "rant" is neither productive nor helpful. They don't have forums. Period.
BarryH_GEG said:
They do it on social media. In a pretty big way too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Social media is a pathetic replacement for an actual Forum. Lol, can you imagine xda-developers as a Facebook page?
Massive fail Samsung. It's clear from some of the changes they made in the last OTA that they aren't listening to the users.
toenail_flicker said:
A "rant" is neither productive nor helpful. They don't have forums. Period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's probably why they don't have forums. Not enough people ranting. You'll have to forgive me. I didn't research whether Samsung had customer forums. I just assumed they weren't living in 1960.
I am endeavoring to report some bugs on their Facebook page. I have no idea if anyone else has already reported these or if there is follow-up as their "forum" has no apparent structure. Will report back if I get any feedback.
unfortunately yes.
I've been looking for its own forums few years back, and find NONE. :cyclops:
They rather use a facebook page, which we don't know the page is being maintained by who.
But, if you need a fast response, you can try their website, there's a LIVECHAT down there.
Facebook is really a pathetic idea to make it as the main forum of such a big company (in my opinion).
If facebook is being used as an additional media, then yes, it's a good idea.
Time for Mr. Peabody's WABAC Machine
For support: Not a forum and not Facebook.
Samsung needs a Web and Android App accessible Support database.
From 1979 to 2002 I was an IBM Mainframe Systems Programmer at UF in Gainesville Florida, then at the School Board of Alachua County Florida.
I watched large companies like IBM and CA move into the web era with their Support. I moved with them from phone calls and mailing fix tapes to Customer Searchable Databases with user entry for new issues, and with Downloadable Fixes for resolved issues.
Of course, way back then issues for my organization affected 10s of thousands of people where resolving an issue meant dealing with only one person in our organization.
Moving forward to today, we've got 10s of thousands of people and many, many more who all need their individual fixes. Very time consuming compared to dealing with one person.
This is one reason why more and more OTA forced SW updating is happening and why the big companies are pushing cloud computing. Such as Google evolving the Chrome platform; Adobe offering Creative Cloud; and VMWare and IBM competing for hosting Enterprise virtual computers.
Aloha.. Al :highfive:
Is it just me or do 80% of their Facebook Support moderators look like complete burnouts?
If a Forum is too hard for them how about a simple Suggestion Box where users can report bugs directly to the Design Team?
My faith in their meeting future needs with OTA's is greatly diminished. Hopefully they will surprise me.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31024209&postcount=24
You might get more feed back by directing your rants here. :cyclops:
tonyz3 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31024209&postcount=24
You might get more feed back by directing your rants here. :cyclops:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tonyz3,
I think you should put in an application to work for the Samsung Design Team, you seem like their kind of guy. :cyclops:
They used to have customer Forum. I was a member. They were so heavily censored, that you could say virtually nothing negative.
When the Galaxy S was having GPS issues, a class action suit was initiated about the GPS problem. I posted this fact and my post was edited to eliminate the sentence stating that. My post appeared but the words "Class Action Lawsuit" magically disappeared!
Moderators would actually cut pieces out of your posts before they would appear.
I then tried to send a private message to another forum member about the censorship and they censored and blocked the private messages as well and then sent me a message saying any more communications of that type would get me banned.
I then posted a second time to the main forum complaining that they were censoring negative posts and was in fact banned from the forum. So there isn't much of a point to a Forum where you aren't alowed to communicate.
So perhaps they just decided to institute the ultimate form of censorship and eliminate the forum altogether.
Digital Man said:
They used to have customer Forum. I was a member. They were so heavily censored, that you could say virtually nothing negative.
When the Galaxy S was having GPS issues, a class action suit was initiated about the GPS problem. I posted this fact and my post was edited to eliminate the sentence stating that. My post appeared but the words "Class Action Lawsuit" magically disappeared!
Moderators would actually cut pieces out of your posts before they would appear.
I then tried to send a private message to another forum member about the censorship and they censored and blocked the private messages as well and then sent me a message saying any more communications of that type would get me banned.
I then posted a second time to the main forum complaining that they were censoring negative posts and was in fact banned from the forum. So there isn't much of a point to a Forum where you aren't alowed to communicate.
So perhaps they just decided to institute the ultimate form of censorship and eliminate the forum altogether.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh well, they make nice tablets and if we get the same software as the Note II we will all be happy campers.
mitchellvii said:
Oh well, they make nice tablets and if we get the same software as the Note II we will all be happy campers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
:highfive:
Greetings. My name is Glenn and I work with children and adults with disabilities. For the past few months I have been reviewing educational apps for children with autism. Sometimes a math app has great graphics and good engagement--think completing the equivalent of half a dozen math worksheets in five minutes. But the same app doesn't take into account the extreme math anxiety, and general anxiety, that children with autism can have: I have come across apps that said "Not good. The answer is ____" or "NO," in a disappointed voice that you would expect to hear from your mother if you failed a test that you hadn't bother to study for. So in addition to the review I am often providing suggested adaptations to make the app a successful experience for the child.
I have gotten a few emails from educational app developers, thanking me for reviewing their app and also telling me how difficult it has been to get a decent amount of downloads for their app after all their hard work. When I was interested in the film industry, I used to publish interviews with up and coming screenwriters, "Interview Spotlight with Peter Considine and Morgan's Way." I would like to do something similar for educational app developers and have created a "self-interview" for educational app developers. Once I receive the responses, I will publish them. I don't have 4,000,000+ readers on my site, so I can't give you that kind of exposure, but the readers on my site are looking specifically for educational apps like yours that can improve the learning experience of their children.
If you're still reading, and your answer is yes to my question, "Would you be interested in sharing with my readers a bit about who you are (an educator, parent/sibling of a child with a disability), why you decided to build the app, and what makes it special?," then you can find the submission guidelines on my site, autism plus math dot blog spot dot com. Click on the tab at the top marked, Guest Post guidelines for app developers.
Thank you.
I don't fall into the category of being interviewed by you. I do have an idea for you that I would be interested in reading. A blog post or any readable describing what mistakes developers make in regards to making apps for people with disabilities and or other issues. You can include things like what not to do (a disappointment sounding/looking "No you are wrong") and what can be done instead. I guess for the app to say "please try again" but I don't know if that's good enough for people with anxiety. I would definitely read such an article, and perhaps it would come in useful sometime in the future.
Up until your post here I didn't realize that saying "no you are wrong" may not be so good with people having anxiety. In the blog post it would be also very interesting and good to include how such statements effect/affect people of such conditions.
Just thought I would bring this idea up to you
reply to q on do's and don'ts
over_optimistic said:
I don't fall into the category of being interviewed by you. I do have an idea for you that I would be interested in reading. A blog post or any readable describing what mistakes developers make in regards to making apps for people with disabilities and or other issues. You can include things like what not to do (a disappointment sounding/looking "No you are wrong") and what can be done instead. I guess for the app to say "please try again" but I don't know if that's good enough for people with anxiety. I would definitely read such an article, and perhaps it would come in useful sometime in the future.
Up until your post here I didn't realize that saying "no you are wrong" may not be so good with people having anxiety. In the blog post it would be also very interesting and good to include how such statements effect/affect people of such conditions.
Just thought I would bring this idea up to you
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Thanks for asking.
I think the key thing to remember is that every child with a disability is different, so what may frustrate one child may turn out to be an enjoyable challenge for another. Having said that, it can help to imagine your potential learner as someone who's spent most of their education repeatedly giving the wrong answer when called on, and as a result, they need LOTS and LOTS of positive encouragement and praise.
My comment above about "no you are wrong" is from an article I wrote a couple months ago (see below). I also provide examples of games that DO provide a positive learning environment and how they did it.
You did say that you weren't an educational apps developer, however. I think most video games are by design kid friendly, regardless of whether a child has a disability. Video games are about not having to read and memorize a bunch of rules, but instead are about playing around and trying different approaches. If you die in the game, you can hit replay and try again in five seconds or less. So the potential frustration from losing is short lived.
Where I could see a frustration is in games where if you die after completing several levels, you have to start over from the beginning. Make sure you have sufficient checkpoints so that players only have to restart from their last checkpoint. But again, this is a feature that will benefit children without disabilities as well.
Ugh! Looks like I can't give you a link to the article mentioned above, so I have moved it to my landing page: autism plus math dot blogspot dot com.
I also have a virtual filing cabinet of "How to" articles for app developers on my home page: click on the tab at the top marked "How to resources for app developers." Of particular interest, you may find useful the article on the game Re:mission, which increased the number of children with cancer who voluntarily took their meds.
Thanks Edapps!
XDA still lets you post links like this by the way:
autismplusmath.blogspot.ca/2014/01/not-good-and-no-said-in-disappointed.html
I just read that article and will go through some of the games reviews you got later when I'm at home.
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Hey folks,
Long time user (and prior to that, long time lurker) on these forums - but today, I'm posting with a random, unusual request.
I'm trying to find Android fans in Los Angeles who may be available to help me with a little TV filming this coming Monday (26th June).
Long story short - my day job is as a TV reporter in Los Angeles.. I work for a global news channel called CGTN America (we broadcast out of Washington DC, Beijing and Nairobi to around about 1.2 billion homes worldwide.. including in the US on cable and satellite, though most of our viewers tend to come internationally)..
Since I'm a huge tech-head, I'm filming a story to go out later this week on ten years of the iPhone. But I want to make it different. What often happens with these stories is some networks get reporters who know nothing about technology to do them, and you end up with something that is just saying 'the iPhone is the most amazing device ever invented.'
Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, it is an amazing device. And it did have a revolutionary impact. But there is so much to the story other than that.
One of the angles I really want to explore is the battle between iOS and Android. The way that the iPhone almost set the lines for a war. You see it on forums like this and XDA and Apple-related forums - people trying to outdo each other.. and people getting really irate as they nail their colors to the mast of their OS of choice.
I wondered if there may be some Android fans in the LA area who I could meet up with on Monday, if we can arrange a convenient time and we film a little sequence (details of which, I'm still to work out in my head) but talking about the iOS vs Android wars. This may be just Android users or it may an Android user and an iPhone user both debating what's best about their relevant OS.
It's still a germ of an idea. But I wanted to throw it out there and hope it gets seen over the weekend.
I'm gonna post this over on Android Central as well to try to maximize the number of people who see it and also on the General Android Chat Forum here. The reason for the double post is that in my experience, the real ire is often between Samsung and Apple fans (reflecting the companies, almost) and so there may be people in that board that this really appeals to..
Anyway, please do reply to me on here, or via DM, or via twitter @phillavelle.
Thanks for looking and have a great day!
Phil
Hi Phil,
I’d be happy to offer some of my time to you forthis endeavor. I’ve lurked on these forums since long before iOS or Android even existed. If you are indeed serious about this I can provide you with my full name which you can then quickly google to see my credentials.
I can play either side of the discussion as I have been a mobile technology consultant for about two decades and have owned (and still own and use both iOS and Android) devices from all major manufacturers.
- Luca
atomic.flip said:
Hi Phil,
I’d be happy to offer some of my time to you forthis endeavor. I’ve lurked on these forums since long before iOS or Android even existed. If you are indeed serious about this I can provide you with my full name which you can then quickly google to see my credentials.
I can play either side of the discussion as I have been a mobile technology consultant for about two decades and have owned (and still own and use both iOS and Android) devices from all major manufacturers.
- Luca
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Hello Luca, yes please, that would be great..
Thread closed.
This is a duplicate of this one below you already posted in General discussion > Off-topic:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/ge...droid-fans-t3626634/post72789901#post72789901
So, please continue the discussion in the above linked thread.
This is not allowed to post twice (or more) the same message on XDA by forum rule #5:
5. Create a thread or post a message only once.
As a large forum, we don't need unnecessary clutter. You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer, revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time so it might take a while before you receive an answer.
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Full list of the rules here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
Thank you for your understanding.
Regards,
Wood Man
Forum Moderator