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Windows XP Embedded on HTC devices?

Hi folks
Recenty I got the Windows XP Embedded kit, and I was really satisfied and surprised with the performance of the directly built system on an old machine like a P1 @ 200 MHz with 64 MB of RAM, without a hard disk.
The main goal would be to run truly win32 apps on mobile devices, to give better functionality and compatibility.
Yet the builder supports x86 architecture only, but cannot be a big problem to port it to ARM pocessors.
What might be difficult are these things:
-Getting win32 drivers for built-in devices (ex. integrated SDIO/USB WLAN, BT adapter, touchscreen, and sound devices, and apps for them!)
-Saving user data on turning off (Ebmedded systems are designed for a workstation, like a cash register: prebuilt apps, and nothing more comfort ) like WM200x
If anybody has any suggestion are to get a warm welcome
bye

Yet the builder supports x86 architecture only, but cannot be a big problem to port it to ARM pocessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding me?
This would mean reverse engineering and recompiling every binary in the OS.
Do you have any idea how many hours something like that would take?

yup, you're right, but in theory it's possibe. I've seen a running DOS on a Microchip micro-controller, or for example the Atmel STK 1000 is Linux based, also seen an mPlayer app operational on the demo board at the college.
as you see, i'm not an experienced programmer, but i'm not afraid to ask
Yeah, the basic low-level binaries must be recompiled, and once it's ok, it might be usable with regular win32 apps, until you run an old DOS app, wich directly access the hardware.
A few years ago i was able to port Z80 software to 8086, and it wasn't easy.
I don't really know these things, just want to see opinions, possibilities, and suggestions.

exe files are binarys which are instructions directly for the cpu
it's not parsed by the operating system
so compiling the os is not enough every application needs to be recompiled too

The programs you mentioned have source available in one way or another (since DOS is very old there are clones, like freeDOS).
If you have the full source for an app and the right compiler, porting it to another CPU is feasible.
But, this is not the case with embedded XP. Getting the full source is impossible which means most of the system will have to be rewritten from scratch.
Just look at the Wine project to see what it takes, and they "have it easy" - they are just trying to simulate the APIs not change processor architecture. (Lets make it clear - ARM instruction set is very different from x86).
And as Rudegar said it will not let you run any program that has not been specially compiled for ARM CPU.
I know it sounds like we are trying to kill you idea here but its nothing personal, unfortunately it just isn't feasible. We would all like to be able to run desktop apps on our devices, but simply having embedded XP on them would not accomplish that. Also while many old DOS apps can be run using various emulators like pocketDOS, almost all Win32 apps take more resources than our little gadgets can offer.
I am fairly sure though that in 5 -10 years that problem will be fixed.

<_< man hours or not, reveng'ing this will have a bigger impact than just winDOS Mobile devices. Desktops have a use for this, definitely (because the Vista-Only crap is starting to hit the market). Too bad they don't provide assembly in programming classes anymore, obviously because they don't want anyone else to reverse engineer anything and spoil their foisting fun. <_<
In any case, IIRC XP Embedded is missing the install/uninstall engine, so you can't customize it after it's flashed onto the board. This isn't quite a good start - XPLite or 98Lite are better for reverse engineering from scratch (but they're too powerful for mobile devices).
The other alternative is porting ReactOS, which is a reimplementation of W2K. Those guys are "having a lot of fun" getting things to work, tho. <_<

Maybye Windows CE6 yes, but Windows XP Embedded no, because they must run at 686-AT/X platform IMB. Sorry of my English

linux would be a path
with most linux programs you can compile them yourself
using good old
./configure
make
make install
of cause gui programs could have issues displaying correct
on such a small screen

You MIGHT be able to pull it off by installing a minimal (very!) WinMo firmware and then have it autorun Bochs, which is known to be able to run the PC version of XP.. A customised, thinned-down XPe image should run fine under Bochs.
--W5i2

HTC Shift under Linux!

At first I had a really hard time accepting pof's claim that the HTC-Shift could be run under Linux and indeed my first attempts at this turned into a blinding nightmare of installs & reinstalls and utter frustration.
Because I tried to install my Laptop's SuSE Linux on the box, which won't even boot below version 11.0.
And even so it does install OK with 11.0 SuSE and I had sound and graphic running, none of the other functions could be enabled no matter what.
Last not least I have to say that other SuSE distros either have a hard time booting right on the Shift (DSL, GParted distro) w/o safety kernel parameters set or get problems with the graphics HW (e.g. Knoppix).
I made those initial mistakes because dear old pof forgot to make clear that the drivers he collected should only run on (K/X)Ubuntu.
Because as I found out through my own research, specially the SD6868 driver was specifically developed by & for the Ubuntu project.
Many of the other distros didn't work right even after installation.
They either stalled during boot time or got the partition table all messed up.
Specially the boot via GRUB install (for dual boot with WinXP) turned out to be a pain in the ass with anything but Ubuntu.
Only Ubuntu booted right away (still had to disable edd, apm and acpi on the installation, but with it all went through fine the first time around).
So please dear pof update your Website to point out that only Ubuntu (or Kubuntu/Xubuntu) should be used on the Shift.
With that, pof's driver collection works out of the box.
But the Touchscreen needs calibration and the Touchpad's sensitivity is originally set way to low.
Once those two settings are corrected it all works fine (albeit the touchscreen is still a bit clunky, its good enough to move windows around, fill out input forms and highlight text).
The WiFi connection also worked right away and was even faster than under Windoze - BUT I can not connect to a standard WEP128 bit encrypted network.
Only unencrypted connections seem to work at this time.
Battery and sensor connections also work, as does the USB port.
I can also switch resolutions - but no longer with the screen button which now only tilts the desktops, I have to use the KDE screen resolution application for that.
The font rendering has way(!!) improved over Vista. I finally can read small texts even at higher resolution.
And overall responsiveness is almost to fast for me
No more coffee breaks between tasks and boot-up time is down to under 3 minutes!
Multimedia also works at blazing speeds now. I can watch large movies at real time and even do MultiMedia editing.
Best of all, that nasty Vista bug with the missing/dropping SD cards is gone.
So all in all it was a steep learning curve (as always /w Linux) but now I finally got a useful machine which is a real asset to my productivity!

pharao said:
So please dear pof update your Website to point out that only Ubuntu (or Kubuntu/Xubuntu) should be used on the Shift.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my website it clearly states that the binary driver packages I published is for Ubuntu based distros only, because that's what I use on the shift. I also explain the "long way" to compile stuff etc, in case you want to run them in any other distro, because you can run any linux flavour on the shift as long as you have experience compiling your own kernel, and building some packages from source.

pof said:
In my website it clearly states that the binary driver packages I published is for Ubuntu based distros only, because that's what I use on the shift. I also explain the "long way" to compile stuff etc, in case you want to run them in any other distro, because you can run any linux flavour on the shift as long as you have experience compiling your own kernel, and building some packages from source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's exactly it pof ... it just won't compile on most other systems.
On SuSE you'll have double trouble because first the darn install DVD don't boot with anything below 11.0 but then the kernel for 11.0 starts with release x.26.
That's one version number to high for your package and even so I tried to still compile it in there, the modules won't load.
Second, the GUIs of these distros are just to separate amongst the different packages.
DSL boots up all right, but has trouble installing itself on the Hard Drive, much more so with the Desktop setting and any attempt at switching resolution.
Knoppix works sometimes and then again it doesn't - was never able to figure out what that was all about.
And the SuSE 11.0 distro doesn't give any error messages when I call up the embeddec controller program - heck the damn thing even allows me to click all around. But nothing happens, not with any of them.
And don't even try to get me started on trying to install Debian packages under SuSE :-(
I'm not sure how much you are into Linux pof, but messing around with the kernel is the last thing you want to do unless you're sure its gonna work.
And I've found that K/X/Ubuntu is the only distro that works out of the box, even during the install phase.
So I think just stating "well the packages are for Debian/Ubuntu systems but you can compile them on other distros, too" is not quite sufficient - as those other distros did cost me a week of my life (time I'd like to have back ;-)
Fact is that Ubuntu doesn't just work on the Shift right away, but its also the fastest distro amongst the ones I've listed.
So for all these reasons Ubuntu should get a big highlight with the sidenote "all other distros at your own risk as your mileage will(!) vary"
Only encrypted WiFi still isn't working...
PS: The folks at SuSE seem to be contemplating their own SD6868 driver for their next 11.x Alpha release - found a note to that regard on a developer blog.

And External mouse doesn't work
pof said:
In my website it clearly states that the binary driver packages I published is for Ubuntu based distros only, because that's what I use on the shift. I also explain the "long way" to compile stuff etc, in case you want to run them in any other distro, because you can run any linux flavour on the shift as long as you have experience compiling your own kernel, and building some packages from source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dear Pof,
I used your custm drivers for ubuntu,Screen touch working great but external mouse has stopped wiorking.Is there anything wrong I have done ?
Thanks

Android (WinMo) and MacOSX (Vista) - Anybody???

Come to think about is there any posibility
Android - I see a thread, but still work in progress
But how about Mac OS X on Shift
i checked on insanelymac, but still work in progress, perhaps this could be interesting alternative if i may say

OS X on Shift
I've tried to install different versions of OS X (Tiger, Leopard etc) on my shift but the main problem is the screen resolution in setup. The monitor on the Shift is only 800x480 pixels but OS X setup only detects 640x400 (if i remember correctly) and this is not enough to display setup properly. I've also tried different boot parametres to force 800x480 resolution, but without any luck.
Another problem is that the Shift CPU only supports SSE2 and the newer versions of OS X is optimized for SSE3 or better.
If you want to try it for yourself you need an external DVD-ROM and a modified OS X image file (search torrent sites for Kalyway/OSX86 etc.)
Let me know if you find a solution to the resolution problem.

Have you tried installing it when connected to an external monitor?
Regards,
Dave

Yes, I also tried installing it with an external monitor connected. The result was excactly the same. Greyscale and only 640x400 resolution...
I think the problem is that the internal display is detected regardless of if you have an external display connected, and this makes the installation program detect the highest resolution the internal display is capable of displaying.

Check out this forumthread:
Insanelymac

batghost said:
Come to think about is there any posibility
Android - I see a thread, but still work in progress
But how about Mac OS X on Shift
i checked on insanelymac, but still work in progress, perhaps this could be interesting alternative if i may say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After playing around the only Android phone for now (TMob G1), I found it is not exactly that enticing like having a WinMo device. In the case of WinMo, I could at least develop a lot of stuff easier and faster and the devices are restrictive. What I found in G1 is quite opposite, OS is open and ubiquitos, but the device is closed. A lot of heck is missing like having simple SIP.
HTC and TMob screwed Google and the Android community big time I believe. I love both Windows and Linux. I am totally disappointed with this. I feel Vista is not that restrictive than TMob G1, I know I am comparing wrong platforms here, but thats what I felt after spending good amount of time on G1. It is easy to develop stuff and deploy on Android and far better than iPhone deployment, but the device is restrictive not friendly like WinMo. I don't care for source code, I want to see a open machine like Wintels, and WinMos where I definately can break without bricking.
Thanks
--Ram--

OSX
Well I tried to start up an installation of OS X on my Shift but i failed. Same reason as above. No resolution.
BUT i've found this little neat thread http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=115328 I will try to install OS X on friday with the mentioned patches in the thread.
Will keep you informed if it worked on friday!

carolusx said:
Well I tried to start up an installation of OS X on my Shift but i failed. Same reason as above. No resolution.
BUT i've found this little neat thread http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=115328 I will try to install OS X on friday with the mentioned patches in the thread.
Will keep you informed if it worked on friday!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any luck with the install when using the patches?

Nope.
Tried a lot of patches but no luck.
But Im continuing looking around to find a solution.

Do you have some instructions / Information howto is the general installation of Linux on A Windows Mobile ARM processor Side?
You leave the boot loader as is, or linux bring his own Boot loader ?

joy.d said:
Do you have some instructions / Information howto is the general installation of Linux on A Windows Mobile ARM processor Side?
You leave the boot loader as is, or linux bring his own Boot loader ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we need to have SD-card support in SnapVue side to be able to use Haret and boot linux. There are several threads that are discussing the possibility to install linux on the SnapVue side.
Use the search function...

Ubuntu on the HTC Shift

I've been checking out the stuff on the web about Linux on the shift, found these, pretty interesting. This ubuntu even detects the motion rolling from left to right, and he makes the cursor move around the screen by tilting the unit. Also has csreen rotation working:
http://mobilitysite.com/2008/07/ubuntu-in-a-htc-shift/
another one:
http://pof.eslack.org/blog/2008/04/14/linux-on-htc-shift/
"Once Ubuntu is installed, you get a menu at boot time which lets you choose which operating system to boot, Vista or Ubuntu. Surprisingly most of the hardware is auto-detected by ubuntu, and almost everything works out of the box:
* Audio is working, mute and volume control works using the Fn keys.
* SD card reader is working.
* Adjusting the screen backlight works with the proper Fn keys.
* Webcam is working (you can test it with gstreamer-properties).
* CPU frequency scaling works by default too on the Intel Stealy 800Mhz CPU, you can monitor it by enabling the cpufreq gnome pannel.
* ACPI is working, you can get the CPU temperature using the sensors-applet.
* Screen resolution works at 800×480. I have not tried higher resolutions yet.
* Bluetooth is working.
However there are a few things that require some extra work in order to have them working properly."

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=381915

its pof old work! it works only with 8.04 but once updated the system, most pof works will not work.

Hi
I installed Ubuntu last night as I can't get any other version of Windows (except the memory and space hogging Vista) to install at the moment.
I was very impressed with how much DID work without any fiddling and now I shall spend another few evenings reading exactly how to make the rest of it work.
I'm hoping to be able to then get rid of Vista (but not off the X partition JUST IN CASE!) and regain some space, but I think that I need Windows to run some software for my OU degree course... rather important given this was my excuse for buying a SHIFT (so I'd always be able to work on my degree regardless of where I was (or so my other half thinks!)).
However I know NOTHING about Linux and am somewhat daunted by it but also looking forward to getting a more "hands on" with the Shift and some more computing experience under my belt.
I am rather excited by the concept of actually being able to use things like the g-sensor. Why would HTC put it in then give you nothing to make it work under Vista? Kinda sums up their decision-process when creating the Shift, if you ask me...

Ubuntu on an external USB hard disk also works as described. Wireless doesn't work; this is noted elsewhere in this thread: the 8686 drivers need to be found, compiled, and installed; any detailed pointers would be much appreciated. 640x480 resolution (only) is a major drawback, as control panels come up with essential buttons off screen, and there doesn't seem to be any trick to move them on screen. It boots much faster and it is much more responsive than VISTA ... I would make Ubuntu permanent on the Shift platform if I could get wireless and the resolution control working.

cnbabbage said:
I would make Ubuntu permanent on the Shift platform if I could get wireless and the resolution control working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go to POF's website (link in the second link in the first message of this thread I think) there is an installer packet that should make WIFI work although being a Linux novice, it doesn't for me! It seems to do what it's meant to do as I can see stuff happening in the terminal window but nothing actually happens or changes after it's done...
I agree that the resolution is a BIG problem at 800 x 640 or whatever it is under Ubuntu 8.04 and hope someone has a solution soon PLEASE!

for Resolution, you can go and reconfig your Xserver yourself. Never used to get it to work on ubuntu but on gentoo no problem at all.
All other pof stuff will work with smal adjustments !! just read the right threads.

Neutron83 said:
for Resolution, you can go and reconfig your Xserver yourself. Never used to get it to work on ubuntu but on gentoo no problem at all.
All other pof stuff will work with smal adjustments !! just read the right threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I did well to get as far as I did as a Noob actually (and a girl one at that!). I have no problem with people saying "search the forum" to people who ask simple questions like "how do I access SnapVue" but when someone's clearly done their research and is still struggling, it's very frustrating. I've just spent nearly ALL weekend on this forum (and google) and got as far as making Ubuntu 8.10 work as I wanted except Wifi and screen resolution, given no one else has mentioned any of these necessities working on 8.10 as far as I can remember and the fact I know nothing about Linux!! Proof in point; your first comment about the Xserver - I don't even know what that is (though I've probably been fiddling in it)
When I have the time I'll start a new thread with all my wonderful findings so it's all in one place - but I have to earn a living and feed the family so it's not high on my agenda this week. I'm due some time off work, so will aim to get it done then (like painting the kitchen and making curtains for my daughter's room...!)

I can upload older ubuntu 8.04 someplace. With this version all pofs configs and hacks work normally.

Hello together!
I'm also working on getting a current Linux up and running on the Shift (Arch Linux with kernel 2.6.28) and found these problems/"solutions":
- Display: I believe that's a combined hard- and software problem. The display doesn't report its correct capabilities and the driver doesn't handle interpolated resolutions that well (I modified the driver for this). I already mailed this to the xorg mailing list, but I didn't get an answer (perhaps I missed some information like driver version)
- Wifi: The old Marvell driver (from their website) isn't compatible with 2.6.28 anymore, but there is a new one in the kernel itself (called libertas), that only needs the firmware in /lib/firmware (check out this git repo if you need to). But at least in my case the chip is still not working, cause the SD controller is buggy and unknown. But I'm talking with some Devs who are willing to help.
- Touchscreen: You need this module to glue htcpen and the xserver together. Then it works like in Pof's manual.
All in all: I believe in having a fully working Linux on the Shift somewhen
Greetings,
Sven

Oaky guys:
Xserver = your grafical environment
Yea u're right the display doesnt send useable stuff to the Soft but you can hard overwrite the combinations of wich ModeLines are used, its a bit more advanced linux stuff but as far as you dont try to learn you wont get it .... i acctually use a 1024 x 600 is possible and i use it !
I Can give my x config to you here if you like to ! (When i am home
sorry for my roughness but i am not a linux pro just advanced PC user and i was able to do such stuff also !!
Greets

Appreciated!
If you could post your config when you have time I would be grateful (as would others!)

@Neutron83:
What version of the intel driver are you using? I'm using 2.4.1 (and newer) and I wasn't able to override the setting no matter what I did. But please share your config. I'd like to give it a chance.
Greeting,
Sven

please, can someone confirm me that ubuntu can do 1024x600 on htc shift?
i would like to buy one of them but i'm not sure about 1024x600 under linux.
thanks a lot

someone posted that xorg_conf can be modified in someway to get bigger resolution. no one have posted working config for this yet. If someone could post it, it would be great.

Shift's screen is 800x480 pixels (http://www.htc.com/europe/faqs.aspx?p_id=60&cat=0&id=45486.) Bundled software (~\htc\resolution.exe and ~\htc\ResolutioLauncher.exe) switches between native 800x480 and emulated 1024x600.
Any progress on a linux driver for the Marvell 8686 wifi card?

Hi @All,
maybe somewhere experts of you can build a script again for Ubuntu 9 users, the most of them I think can work with Linux, but the most are Windows users (like me) and are overstrained with modding aditional Hardware into Ubuntu ;-)

How's everyone going with Ubuntu on the Shift? Samstables?
I'm downloading and installing the current wubi to put ubuntu on with vista as a dual boot to see how much works out of the box and how much I can get working mucking around (low level linux user here )

hmm... my shift is a dustcover at the moment...

pls give me image iso ubuntu on a works drivers!!

Is it possible to install Android on the windows yogabook?

Hi, I recently bought a yogabook from ebay and I'm not happy with the performance/heat that windows 10 gives. I've tried chromeos which has better performance but more heat(probably due to incorrect drivers and the halo keyboard doesnt work). So my final option is android. Is it possible? If so could you point me to a link which says how to do it

If something hasn't changed since I became interested in the matter, it wasn't possible to install Windows on devices that were born with Android.

I'm talking about the other way around, installing Android on devices that were born with Windows

Nikolay1243D said:
I'm talking about the other way around, installing Android on devices that were born with Windows
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are right I didn't explain myself well. I meant that for what I understood at the time I was interested is that despite having similar hardware if not equal Lenovo has blocked the ability to switch between operating systems and that the hardware is a little too small to run well Windows.

has anyone tried downloading the source code off lenovos website and following the instructions in the readme files the come with it?