Related
I've been checking out the stuff on the web about Linux on the shift, found these, pretty interesting. This ubuntu even detects the motion rolling from left to right, and he makes the cursor move around the screen by tilting the unit. Also has csreen rotation working:
http://mobilitysite.com/2008/07/ubuntu-in-a-htc-shift/
another one:
http://pof.eslack.org/blog/2008/04/14/linux-on-htc-shift/
"Once Ubuntu is installed, you get a menu at boot time which lets you choose which operating system to boot, Vista or Ubuntu. Surprisingly most of the hardware is auto-detected by ubuntu, and almost everything works out of the box:
* Audio is working, mute and volume control works using the Fn keys.
* SD card reader is working.
* Adjusting the screen backlight works with the proper Fn keys.
* Webcam is working (you can test it with gstreamer-properties).
* CPU frequency scaling works by default too on the Intel Stealy 800Mhz CPU, you can monitor it by enabling the cpufreq gnome pannel.
* ACPI is working, you can get the CPU temperature using the sensors-applet.
* Screen resolution works at 800×480. I have not tried higher resolutions yet.
* Bluetooth is working.
However there are a few things that require some extra work in order to have them working properly."
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=381915
its pof old work! it works only with 8.04 but once updated the system, most pof works will not work.
Hi
I installed Ubuntu last night as I can't get any other version of Windows (except the memory and space hogging Vista) to install at the moment.
I was very impressed with how much DID work without any fiddling and now I shall spend another few evenings reading exactly how to make the rest of it work.
I'm hoping to be able to then get rid of Vista (but not off the X partition JUST IN CASE!) and regain some space, but I think that I need Windows to run some software for my OU degree course... rather important given this was my excuse for buying a SHIFT (so I'd always be able to work on my degree regardless of where I was (or so my other half thinks!)).
However I know NOTHING about Linux and am somewhat daunted by it but also looking forward to getting a more "hands on" with the Shift and some more computing experience under my belt.
I am rather excited by the concept of actually being able to use things like the g-sensor. Why would HTC put it in then give you nothing to make it work under Vista? Kinda sums up their decision-process when creating the Shift, if you ask me...
Ubuntu on an external USB hard disk also works as described. Wireless doesn't work; this is noted elsewhere in this thread: the 8686 drivers need to be found, compiled, and installed; any detailed pointers would be much appreciated. 640x480 resolution (only) is a major drawback, as control panels come up with essential buttons off screen, and there doesn't seem to be any trick to move them on screen. It boots much faster and it is much more responsive than VISTA ... I would make Ubuntu permanent on the Shift platform if I could get wireless and the resolution control working.
cnbabbage said:
I would make Ubuntu permanent on the Shift platform if I could get wireless and the resolution control working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go to POF's website (link in the second link in the first message of this thread I think) there is an installer packet that should make WIFI work although being a Linux novice, it doesn't for me! It seems to do what it's meant to do as I can see stuff happening in the terminal window but nothing actually happens or changes after it's done...
I agree that the resolution is a BIG problem at 800 x 640 or whatever it is under Ubuntu 8.04 and hope someone has a solution soon PLEASE!
for Resolution, you can go and reconfig your Xserver yourself. Never used to get it to work on ubuntu but on gentoo no problem at all.
All other pof stuff will work with smal adjustments !! just read the right threads.
Neutron83 said:
for Resolution, you can go and reconfig your Xserver yourself. Never used to get it to work on ubuntu but on gentoo no problem at all.
All other pof stuff will work with smal adjustments !! just read the right threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I did well to get as far as I did as a Noob actually (and a girl one at that!). I have no problem with people saying "search the forum" to people who ask simple questions like "how do I access SnapVue" but when someone's clearly done their research and is still struggling, it's very frustrating. I've just spent nearly ALL weekend on this forum (and google) and got as far as making Ubuntu 8.10 work as I wanted except Wifi and screen resolution, given no one else has mentioned any of these necessities working on 8.10 as far as I can remember and the fact I know nothing about Linux!! Proof in point; your first comment about the Xserver - I don't even know what that is (though I've probably been fiddling in it)
When I have the time I'll start a new thread with all my wonderful findings so it's all in one place - but I have to earn a living and feed the family so it's not high on my agenda this week. I'm due some time off work, so will aim to get it done then (like painting the kitchen and making curtains for my daughter's room...!)
I can upload older ubuntu 8.04 someplace. With this version all pofs configs and hacks work normally.
Hello together!
I'm also working on getting a current Linux up and running on the Shift (Arch Linux with kernel 2.6.28) and found these problems/"solutions":
- Display: I believe that's a combined hard- and software problem. The display doesn't report its correct capabilities and the driver doesn't handle interpolated resolutions that well (I modified the driver for this). I already mailed this to the xorg mailing list, but I didn't get an answer (perhaps I missed some information like driver version)
- Wifi: The old Marvell driver (from their website) isn't compatible with 2.6.28 anymore, but there is a new one in the kernel itself (called libertas), that only needs the firmware in /lib/firmware (check out this git repo if you need to). But at least in my case the chip is still not working, cause the SD controller is buggy and unknown. But I'm talking with some Devs who are willing to help.
- Touchscreen: You need this module to glue htcpen and the xserver together. Then it works like in Pof's manual.
All in all: I believe in having a fully working Linux on the Shift somewhen
Greetings,
Sven
Oaky guys:
Xserver = your grafical environment
Yea u're right the display doesnt send useable stuff to the Soft but you can hard overwrite the combinations of wich ModeLines are used, its a bit more advanced linux stuff but as far as you dont try to learn you wont get it .... i acctually use a 1024 x 600 is possible and i use it !
I Can give my x config to you here if you like to ! (When i am home
sorry for my roughness but i am not a linux pro just advanced PC user and i was able to do such stuff also !!
Greets
Appreciated!
If you could post your config when you have time I would be grateful (as would others!)
@Neutron83:
What version of the intel driver are you using? I'm using 2.4.1 (and newer) and I wasn't able to override the setting no matter what I did. But please share your config. I'd like to give it a chance.
Greeting,
Sven
please, can someone confirm me that ubuntu can do 1024x600 on htc shift?
i would like to buy one of them but i'm not sure about 1024x600 under linux.
thanks a lot
someone posted that xorg_conf can be modified in someway to get bigger resolution. no one have posted working config for this yet. If someone could post it, it would be great.
Shift's screen is 800x480 pixels (http://www.htc.com/europe/faqs.aspx?p_id=60&cat=0&id=45486.) Bundled software (~\htc\resolution.exe and ~\htc\ResolutioLauncher.exe) switches between native 800x480 and emulated 1024x600.
Any progress on a linux driver for the Marvell 8686 wifi card?
Hi @All,
maybe somewhere experts of you can build a script again for Ubuntu 9 users, the most of them I think can work with Linux, but the most are Windows users (like me) and are overstrained with modding aditional Hardware into Ubuntu ;-)
How's everyone going with Ubuntu on the Shift? Samstables?
I'm downloading and installing the current wubi to put ubuntu on with vista as a dual boot to see how much works out of the box and how much I can get working mucking around (low level linux user here )
hmm... my shift is a dustcover at the moment...
pls give me image iso ubuntu on a works drivers!!
I'm about to dual boot my box again, since alot of the stuff on the forums is for linux to start with, then works its way to windows. It's been a while since i played with linux, recompiling kernels had me pulling my hair out going f*%$ this MS Dos is more user friendly lols. Just curious which distibution you developers and programmers are useing, if you think one is better than the others for whatever reason.
Thanks in advance,
N1
Not really a developer but I have a gentoo64 2008.0
Why gentoo?
because you know what stuff you have in since you start with almost nothing. xD
but all other distribution are the same :
-Package manager
-user friendly
-Good autodetection of almost all your devices.
If you're not really familiar with linux I would tell you to go with ubuntu.
The community is really active, and the packages are well maintened.
personally i use Ubuntu 8.10(intrepid) it is very user friendly and i have been using it for a while so i know how to develope my themes and i know a good number of commands that i can use on the comp and on the phone.
Thanks for the suggestions, got ubuntu installed yesterday, been pulling hair out ever since
Ah man... Ubuntu's a breeze. What's making you pull your hair out?
I picked Ubuntu because of its Mac OSXness. Easy to use and very functional. Completely switched all my computers to dual boot now. Windows is for Excel now and that's about it.
lol I use Puppy Linux
Namely because It's even more stripped down then gentoo. The full installer is around 100mb. I have the installer on my MicroSD card as a live distro. Throw the card+MicroSD reader in a USB slot, change bios to boot from usb and whalla! Easiest Dual-Boot ever.
The Installer for Puppy actually installs the OS to my laptop's RAM leaving my hard-drives completely untouched. Full installation takes about 5 minutes.
When I'm done in linux, I just reboot, yank the USB and I'm back in windows. (there's also options to save your settings and things that you have changed to the MicroSD so they'll be there next time you boot from the USB)
sorry to tell you this but in term of installer size you can't do less than gentoo
ftp://ftp.free.fr/mirrors/ftp.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/2008.0/installcd/
xDDD
My bad... "Namely because It's even more stripped down then gentoo. The full installer is around 100mb." thx for correcting me dixxa, 67mb is pretty small
Although you can go a bit smaller http://damnsmalllinux.org/ 50mb
but I've had no luck setting DSL up successfully :/
Check out http://www.ultimateedition.info. It's a modified and improved ubuntu. It's not small but it's very beginner friendly and well supported and full of eyecandy. I use Ultimate Edition 2.1 x64bit.
my 2 cents
If you're new to linux: ubuntu (I started on mandriva, which I think is also really good. Bonus: compiz can be selected as default during install )
If you want to learn the true unix core of linux: slackware
Once you know what you're doing: gentoo
Got all three on my machine right now to play around with, with a shared home partition
I use Ubuntu, which is a knock-off of Debian, and that is a GREAT thing because the "apt-get" tools (like the Synaptic Package Manager) are the best thing going for upgrading and maintaining the Linux system.
Thanks for all the replies, started with ubuntu which has come a long way since the last time i played with linux, that extreme edition is pretty sweet, i have to assume, that all of that can be added to your basic ubuntu install, once i figure out what im doing again
I want to do some Android development and I currently have access to a Vaio running Vista Home Premium and a MacBook Pro running Leopard. I was considering installing Linux or Ubuntu on my Vaio, is this a good idea? What are the perks to an open source OS (I can only imagine after seeing what Linux based Android OS is capable of)
jbraucht said:
I want to do some Android development and I currently have access to a Vaio running Vista Home Premium and a MacBook Pro running Leopard. I was considering installing Linux or Ubuntu on my Vaio, is this a good idea? What are the perks to an open source OS (I can only imagine after seeing what Linux based Android OS is capable of)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think there's any as far as Android development is concerned. ADB and Eclipse run on Windows just as fine as they do on Linux, and if you need any GNU tools there's always Cygwin.
I develop under Linux myself, but that's just because it's my main OS (after you get around all the problems and learn how to use it basic tasks become quicker by a fair amount). If I were using Windows, I doubt I would bother putting Linux on my machine just for Android development.
Either way, it's up to you to try and see whichever is more comfortable for you.
I like the spirit of Linux. Microsoft is a soul sucking evil, not to mention Vista drains ungodly resources just to idle. If I load Ubuntu will it wipe my hd like any other OS? I don't have an external at the moment, is it possible to make a small storage partition that won't get touched?
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate
jbraucht said:
I like the spirit of Linux. Microsoft is a soul sucking evil, not to mention Vista drains ungodly resources just to idle. If I load Ubuntu will it wipe my hd like any other OS? I don't have an external at the moment, is it possible to make a small storage partition that won't get touched?
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It all depends on how you partition your HDD. If you have enough free space you can just shrink your Vista partition and install Ubuntu alongside it in a separate partition thus leaving your Windows untouched. Hit Google with something like "installing Ubuntu after Vista" and you'll get many useful guides.
Just note that after installing Ubuntu you might need a lot of coffee, many hours, or days, and lots of head bashing against the table before you will get everything to work as you'd like After that you'll be free again... totally free, until you decide to upgrade to a newer release
martino2k6 said:
Just note that after installing Ubuntu you might need a lot of coffee, many hours, or days, and lots of head bashing against the table before you will get everything to work as you'd like After that you'll be free again... totally free, until you decide to upgrade to a newer release
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now you're scaring me. i have my vaio open in front of me and all i can think is "remember how much stumbling through freeing the captivate made you a crazy person? just wait."
Now I'm getting tempted to wipe my old XP computer and stick Linux on it. Could be fun to learn.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
You can boot Ubuntu from CD-ROM or USB stick if you want to try it out. Of course it's a lot slower than a full installation but at least it won't touch your harddisc! Check out the Ubuntu site for instructions.
I have two laptops at home and in the meanwhile I'm running Ubuntu on both of them. The first one is dual booting with Windows 7 (in case I want to do some gaming) and on the second one I totally wiped out Windows!!!
I never did any Linux before but so far I didn't run into any problems at all. Ubuntu is working smooth directly after installation. No problem to connect to WLAN (just as easy as on Windows 7) and downloading apps, development tools, and whatever from Ubuntu software store is just as easy as on Android!
For Android app development you don't necessary need any Linux. But if you want to play with the NDK then you might want to know that there's no Google support for Windows, so Linux is recommended here. If you want to compile the Android OS itself then a Linux machine is more suitable as well.
On Windows there's still the possibilty to use some Cygwin emulation or whatever but I never tried it myself, instead I thought for myself: I want to do Linux or I don't want to do Linux?
If you are more comfortable with a Linux PC then you'll also get a better understanding on the way Android is working in case you are interested in the internals, file system, shell, etc.
jbraucht said:
now you're scaring me. i have my vaio open in front of me and all i can think is "remember how much stumbling through freeing the captivate made you a crazy person? just wait."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, well maybe I was a bit too harsh. Really depends how anal you are about things working properly
I have faith in my ability to fix anything. I can't change the boot options on my vaio tho, I can't get to the right menu
Sent from your girlfriend's Captivate
I recommend ubuntu. Compared to earlier years, almost everything just works out of the box, very basic and easy. You can load up a live cd/usb, install along side your current os with a very small partition size [I use about 8g out of my 120g hdd] because ubuntu is smart enough to read ntfs file systems, so it will be able to read anything that is on the windows partition as well. It will automatically install grub, allowing you to pick between os's when you boot, and everything is swell. Though i would upgrade to windows 7 first, as vista = crap
ALL CREDIT GOES TO GRAZZT519, HE CAN BE FOUND HERE: http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=4289767
UPDATE 10/10: .IPK of qEMU now on Grazzt's website.
WE WILL NOT SUPPLY YOU WITH .IMGs of OPERATING SYSTEMS, IT WOULD BE VIOLATING COPYRIGHT AS WELL AS XDA'S RULES!
Grazzt also has dosbox and GemRB for the touchpad on his website: http://touchpad.grazzt.com/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TESTED/WORKING OS's:
Windows 95: Working (tested by grazzt) (Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CJ2mSToQS0)
Windows 98 SE: Working (tested by grazzt) (Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfwsIWv1eW0)
FreeDOS: working (tested by grazzt)
Windows XP: Not working (tested by grazzt)
Windows NT: Not working (tested by me, it bluescreens and then qEMU crashes)
Windows ME: Working (tested by me)
Windows 3.1: Partially working (tested by me, needs to type "WIN" via a keyboard to launch GUI)
IBM OS/2: Partially working (Boots up, than spits out C:\IBMCOM\PROTOCOL\NETBEUI.OS2 on line 108 of CONFIG.SYS was not installed, Line 108 is ignored. Press Enter to Continue...) It may potentially boot up if we had a virtual keyboard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FAQ:
Q: Did you make this?
A: No! It was made by a user known as Grazzt (he can be found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=4289767)
Q: Where are the download links?!
A: If you're talking about a qEMU .IPK, it can be found here: http://touchpad.grazzt.com/qemu/ but if you're talking about operating systems,
you must find them by your own means, I would be violating copyright and XDA's rules if I posted them here. Grazzt won't supply you with these, either, so don't bother him or me about .IMGs.
Q: How do I use this?!
A: If you have to ask this question, you shouldn't be using this, but if you would really like to know: Place your hdd.img in /media/internal/qemu and open qEMU, it should attempt to boot the OS within the .img
Q: Does this run smoothly?
A: For me it does, but on my TouchPad, I have a ton patches to lighten up WebOS, as well as UberKernel, set at 1.5GHz, with the performance governor . It will probably not run as smoothly on a stock TouchPad, but I suggest giving it a try.
Q: Where's my keyboard?!?!
A: A virtual keyboard has not been implemented (yet?).
Q: Does this overtake WebOS?
A: No, it runs in a card, as an application.
Q: WTF is wrong with the mouse?!?!
A: Nothing, the mouse is simply set to relative instead of absolute.
Q: Does sound work?
A: Yes, however, on certain OS's you may have to repeatedly increase and decrease the volume (with the TouchPad's volume rocker) to get it to properly intialize.
qEMU is what used to run win95/98, it is real, but such a hassle to run an outdated OS...not to mention the mouse calibration is wayy off, and none of the internal hardware works (no sound, wifi, opengl etc.)
also, the entire package has to be compiled, it isnt ready to use just by dl'ing it and providing a ripped OS...
its a neat little PoC, but totally not worth it considering ARM Win8 dev is dropping soonishly (hopefully )
Solidus_n313 said:
qEMU is what used to run win95/98, it is real, but such a hassle to run an outdated OS...not to mention the mouse calibration is wayy off, and none of the internal hardware works (no sound, wifi, opengl etc.)
also, the entire package has to be compiled, it isnt ready to use just by dl'ing it and providing a ripped OS...
its a neat little PoC, but totally not worth it considering ARM Win8 dev is dropping soonishly (hopefully )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
speak for yourself.
I'm a tinkerer.
I like diy projects
I do not like being hand-fed.
IT is worth it for me.
Im the "author" (well,ok, compiler) of the projects, and yeah, qemu is sort of lame for the enduser. Just wanted to see if it works and it does. Sound does work, and if I looked hard enough could probably change the mouse settings to be absolute instead of relative. Sad part is because Ive shut down win98 too many times ungracefully, I have registry errors, and too lazy to make a clean hdd image. lol
Cant really distribute it along with hdd imags of windows, Im sure you know why. I believe the freedos images from qemu.org work fine.
Dosemu has also seriously ticked me off, some games see mouse clicks, others dont, its frustrating. If you have a game that sees mouse clicks, I think it runs quite well.
Gemrb runs well, dont know what else can be said about it. Go for the eyes BOO!
grazzt519 said:
Im the "author" (well,ok, compiler) of the projects, and yeah, qemu is sort of lame for the enduser. Just wanted to see if it works and it does. Sound does work, and if I looked hard enough could probably change the mouse settings to be absolute instead of relative. Sad part is because Ive shut down win98 too many times ungracefully, I have registry errors, and too lazy to make a clean hdd image. lol
Cant really distribute it along with hdd imags of windows, Im sure you know why. I believe the freedos images from qemu.org work fine.
Dosemu has also seriously ticked me off, some games see mouse clicks, others dont, its frustrating. If you have a game that sees mouse clicks, I think it runs quite well.
Gemrb runs well, dont know what else can be said about it. Go for the eyes BOO!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WELCOME GRAZZT!
also, i wasnt bashing the project, its indeed clever, and ive see similar projects done befofe, but considering how low end some of the touchpad users here are (hopefully that doesnt last long!) its not novel for regular users.
having said that, it looks like the potential for winxp IS there, but we would have to resort to a minimalized "usb-stick" version with the media touch drivers slipstreamed (which really isnt a bad thing )
and scrizz, im the exact same as you , i dont buy, i diy! that post was more of an initial overview for ppl who just scrub through these posts and ask for links to complete projects and eta's but since the dev is here, im sure the project can advance by leaps and bounds with our help and testing
I cleaned up the original post a little.
"WE WILL NOT SUPPLY YOU WITH .IMGs of OPERATING SYSTEMS, IT WOULD BE VIOLATING COPYRIGHT AS WELL AS XDA'S RULES!"
Not fully true. You can post .img-files of Haiku and various Linux-distro's.
Vistaus said:
"WE WILL NOT SUPPLY YOU WITH .IMGs of OPERATING SYSTEMS, IT WOULD BE VIOLATING COPYRIGHT AS WELL AS XDA'S RULES!"
Not fully true. You can post .img-files of Haiku and various Linux-distro's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but linux distros probably can be run chroot'd (better performance than qemu emulation)
grazzt519 said:
Im the "author" (well,ok, compiler) of the projects, and yeah, qemu is sort of lame for the enduser. Just wanted to see if it works and it does. Sound does work, and if I looked hard enough could probably change the mouse settings to be absolute instead of relative. Sad part is because Ive shut down win98 too many times ungracefully, I have registry errors, and too lazy to make a clean hdd image. lol
Cant really distribute it along with hdd imags of windows, Im sure you know why. I believe the freedos images from qemu.org work fine.
Dosemu has also seriously ticked me off, some games see mouse clicks, others dont, its frustrating. If you have a game that sees mouse clicks, I think it runs quite well.
Gemrb runs well, dont know what else can be said about it. Go for the eyes BOO!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey nice to meet you. You can retake my project, I don't have a Pre anymore also you can use my IMG's if you want, I like people like you . Email me and let's talk.
Just curious to see exactly how many people actually use Linux or OSX a.k.a the only OSes you can build Android on which IMO all Android devs should be using
I'm running Manjaro, an Arch based distro
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk
Jhdoubleoseven said:
Just curious to see exactly how many people actually use Linux or OSX a.k.a the only OSes you can build Android on which IMO all Android devs should be using
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha still on win 7...Waiting for win 10
Jhdoubleoseven said:
Just curious to see exactly how many people actually use Linux or OSX a.k.a the only OSes you can build Android on which IMO all Android devs should be using
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are virtualization options availible for Windows such as cygwin I've used in the past that can help.
PC Gaming Master Race (Windows). Proud. xD
8.1 on one xubuntu 15.04 on another
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using XDA Free mobile app
Jhdoubleoseven said:
Just curious to see exactly how many people actually use Linux or OSX a.k.a the only OSes you can build Android on which IMO all Android devs should be using
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using fedora but why should all android devs use linux? I think you should use whatever you're comfortable with
Niropa said:
I'm using fedora but why should all android devs use linux? I think you should use whatever you're comfortable with
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because:
1) Android is a Linux system so if you wanna develop it it's best to know Linux up close and personal
2) Building Android things (like ROMs) on Linux is much more straightforward
3) Linux systems are much more secure and generally more stable (not related to Android, just in general)
4) Microsoft is a corporate evil that restricts the freedom of its users and encourages the use of proprietary software
OSX is also guilty of the same evils as Windows with the exception that OSX is a Unix system and therefore enjoys many of the same benefits as Linux
I've been a linux user since 1998, I'm comfortable building programs from scratch, used to build my own kernel (prior to 3.x) and have modified kernel modules to add support for some devices.
Having said that, I tried to build a kernel and system for an Android device some long time ago, did have the source tree for the device, but it always failed because some blob was missing or some source file had incorrect references to other files. I just tossed the towel, mainly because compilation took forever just to fail at the end. Besides I had to download like 40GB to set up the build environment.
Having previous linux experience did not help me much, as Android was different enough to what I knew. This was at the time gingerbread was the latest version ( Android 3 devices existed, but that's another story).
Hopefully things have changed, if so I might give it a try again.
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk
Jhdoubleoseven said:
Because:
1) Android is a Linux system so if you wanna develop it it's best to know Linux up close and personal
2) Building Android things (like ROMs) on Linux is much more straightforward
3) Linux systems are much more secure and generally more stable (not related to Android, just in general)
4) Microsoft is a corporate evil that restricts the freedom of it)sers and encourages the use of proprietary software
OSX is also guilty of the same evils as Windows with exception that OSX is a Unix system and therefore enjoys many of the same benefits as Linux
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) android is very different then any Linux distribution, as glock said having previous experience on Linux does not help much.
2) I agree with that point because Linux comes with a lot of tools needed to compile but if that's the only reason you need Linux for then it's better to just run it as a secondary OS on a virtual machine.
3) now that's a very silly point, Linux is only more secure because its more obscure then other operating systems and saying it is generally more stable is just wrong. With windows I had rarely any problems. With any Linux distribution I get very bad screen tearing, audio stops working after a reboot, many packages (steam for example) don't work without hours of troubleshooting and file transfers to my phone or music player make at least one song on every album sound like it got thrown in a blender and got chopped up before being transfered. There are many more problems which don't help my android development. When iI could be updating my ROMs I can't because I'm busy troubleshooting why my distribution decided not to pass grub.
4) that's also a very silly point stallman. With that logic you should not be using phones either because they contain proprietary blobs. The play store is proprietary. Most websites you visit are proprietary (including github which is needed for android development) your mp3s are proprietary, even your computer that you think is running all free software iis running a proprietary BIOS. I could go on all day about the proprietary software you use but I'm on my phone
Niropa said:
3) now that's a very silly point, Linux is only more secure because its more obscure then other operating systems and saying it is generally more stable is just wrong. With windows I had rarely any problems. With any Linux distribution I get very bad screen tearing, audio stops working after a reboot, many packages (steam for example) don't work without hours of troubleshooting and file transfers to my phone or music player make at least one song on every album sound like it got thrown in a blender and got chopped up before being transfered. There are many more problems which don't help my android development. When iI could be updating my ROMs I can't because I'm busy troubleshooting why my distribution decided not to pass grub.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I work for a major IT company. All system administrators- Window, Unix, Mainframe, or DBA have to use Linux as their OS because it is more secure than MS Windows. The base multi-user model of Unix makes it more secure, then add things like SELinux, and becomes very hard to compromise.
Your garbled songs sounds like you are disconnecting your device before all the files have finished transferring. Your screen tearing sounds like you are using a software or frame buffer driver instead of the accelerated driver for your video chipset. Sound can be a pita at times. A newer distro solved my issues (meaning updated kernel drivers) with sound. For Steam, I think I had to enable a repo, then just 'yum install steam'. It is not so much Linux is difficult as it is different from what you are used to.
alose said:
I work for a major IT company. All system administrators- Window, Unix, Mainframe, or DBA have to use Linux as their OS because it is more secure than MS Windows. The base multi-user model of Unix makes it more secure, then add things like SELinux, and becomes very hard to compromise.
Your garbled songs sounds like you are disconnecting your device before all the files have finished transferring. Your screen tearing sounds like you are using a software or frame buffer driver instead of the accelerated driver for your video chipset. Sound can be a pita at times. A newer distro solved my issues (meaning updated kernel drivers) with sound. For Steam, I think I had to enable a repo, then just 'yum install steam'. It is not so much Linux is difficult as it is different from what you are used to.
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Lol nice assumptions but no. I can assure you I'm not disconnecting it before its finished transferring, my only guess is it has something to do with libmtp and the way it handles file transfers which must be different then other operating systems. I use the open source amd drivers which give me screen tearing. I noticed proprietary drivers fixed it but then when I reboot its just a blank screen that iI cant be bothered to troubleshoot. I have steams repo enabled and it iinstalls fine with dnf but I can't figure out how to get it to actually open. Opening with the command line doesn't give me any errors to work with either sadly. Also as I stated in an earlier post I use fedora and am much more experienced with Linux then any other OS. I'm also on the latest kernel released (4.0.6 I think? I'll have to double check) and I still get issues with pulseaudio.
With all that being said I'm not trying to bash Linux and say windows is better,(like i said i use fedora myself and have been using other various distros for the past several years)my point was that you should use whatever works best for you and won't get in your way.
All runing linux
Jhdoubleoseven said:
Just curious to see exactly how many people actually use Linux or OSX a.k.a the only OSes you can build Android on which IMO all Android devs should be using
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2 laptop, raspberrypi, game pc, media pc, kib pc, all running flavor of Linux.:good:
Windows ME.
Posted using my phone.
Niropa said:
Lol nice assumptions but no. I can assure you I'm not disconnecting it before its finished transferring, my only guess is it has something to do with libmtp and the way it handles file transfers which must be different then other operating systems. I use the open source amd drivers which give me screen tearing. I noticed proprietary drivers fixed it but then when I reboot its just a blank screen that iI cant be bothered to troubleshoot. I have steams repo enabled and it iinstalls fine with dnf but I can't figure out how to get it to actually open. Opening with the command line doesn't give me any errors to work with either sadly. Also as I stated in an earlier post I use fedora and am much more experienced with Linux then any other OS. I'm also on the latest kernel released (4.0.6 I think? I'll have to double check) and I still get issues with pulseaudio.
With all that being said I'm not trying to bash Linux and say windows is better,(like i said i use fedora myself and have been using other various distros for the past several years)my point was that you should use whatever works best for you and won't get in your way.
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I definitely see your point. I guess it really depends on what you hardware you use Linux on; I run Arch on my old HP G71 from 2011 with an Intel Core 2 Duo and everything runs amazingly. The only issues I've ever had is pulseaudio (which magically fixed itself after some time) and a few crashes due to me using a custom kernel (linux-ck). In fact, the only problems I've ever had are completely due to a mistake on my part.
With the Microsoft it was mild sarcasm with a big point: pretty much everything in Windows is closed source. Pretty much everything in Linux is open source (depending on what distro you use, of course). I'm not afraid of proprietary; I run Plex Media Server and Google Chrome. But I made that choice to run those programs. Just like I made the choice of what window manager to run; how to log in to my system (I go through startx now); how to play music (mpd); how to interface with my network. All of these were choices I made in building my system from the ground up -- even with distros like Ubunutu you can still replace basically whatever you want. That's what I meant when I said that Windows takes away your freedom.
Mint 17 on C720 i3 Chromebook here!
Jhdoubleoseven said:
Because:
1) Android is a Linux system so if you wanna develop it it's best to know Linux up close and personal
2) Building Android things (like ROMs) on Linux is much more straightforward
3) Linux systems are much more secure and generally more stable (not related to Android, just in general)
4) Microsoft is a corporate evil that restricts the freedom of its users and encourages the use of proprietary software
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1) Tools to build apps for Android are cross-platformed. Using Eclipse IDE under Windows i compile every my app and don't see any restrictions making me want to migrate to Linux.
2) VirtualBox + Ubuntu solve this problem completely.
3) Not more secure and definitely not more stable. You can setup Linux to be less secure and setup Windows to be more secure. And if you compare how many side (i mean apps not included in distro) apps you use in Windows and in Linux, you will find the answer about security. Even light usage of Linux (mostly for kernel compilation and some AOSP code) produces different services/apps crash. So, if i would use Linux as i'm using Windows, there will be even more crashes.
What i really hate in Linux is how much time it requires to be prepared for some non-generic environment. If somehow happen distro doesn't provide required package (even from dedicated support server), or more worse if package version is different from required, then be prepared for "sex" with Linux. You can spend a lot of time to compile and most likely to fix incompatibilities in source code. Sometimes such preparation takes several days. And then when you are prepared, you can compile that code in 5 minutes. Nope.. Such productivity isn't for me. In most cases i even don't expect compilation because i simply want to use some utility. And then i find that pre-compiled version doesn't work. Because there is very low compatibility between different versions of Linux. Even binary compiled for Linux release couple years ago may not work in more modern Linux (unless it statically linked, but even in this case there is no warranty). And if it doesn't work, see my description about preparation to compile it
Btw, both VirtualBox and VMWare require special drivers for guest Linux to properly support folder sharing and VM window handling. And these drivers have to be recompiled with every minor kernel version update. This is IMHO very lame for Linux. Even after some kernel update (through standard distro package manager, so it's very minor update) VMWare stop to compile its drivers. So i have to find why and then patch the source code. And i often ask myself "Why i have to do this crap again and again?"
In Windows, i can take binary compiled for Windows XP, and use it in Windows 10. Interoperability of binaries between versions of Linux is a big red sign for me.
I was trying to migrate to Linux several times already in the past 10 years. And every time i find my self spending most of time for side tasks than my main projects.
Another thing i don't like in Linux is GUI. Not the design. It's OK for me to adapt to new interface. KDE or XFCE are fine. What i don't like in Linux GUI is how it works. Sometimes it lives its own life. Some windows appear when i don't expect, or i forgot about it already. It looks like GUI threads are running not in sync (or in very weak sync) with main code. I prefer MS Windows behavior when app tries to open the window, i cannot do anything. So, i know, something will happen soon. On Linux it's always a guess game "will some new window appear or app simply ignores my input."
4) From other side, you can see standardization of APIs and stable for many years SDK in Windows. As a software developer i care about it very much. There is no restriction for Open Source projects.
Absence (or nearly absence) binary compatibility between Linux versions, very flexible and often changing APIs can be considered as an additional security mechanism, but I'm against such methods.
---------- Post added at 06:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 AM ----------
P.S: About "Android is a Linux": it's completely wrong.
Android is an OS with high level of abstraction when it comes to devices.
To make this abstraction, Linux kernel is used. Nothing to do with Desktop Linux here.
Generally speaking, any kernel could be used to make this abstraction. It could be OpenBSD and even Windows kernel. Android wouldn't be different. Google choose Linux kernel to be free from other software developers - that's the only reason.
sorg said:
1) Tools to build apps for Android are cross-platformed. Using Eclipse IDE under Windows i compile every my app and don't see any restrictions making me want to migrate to Linux.
2) VirtualBox + Ubuntu solve this problem completely.
3) Not more secure and definitely not more stable. You can setup Linux to be less secure and setup Windows to be more secure. And if you compare how many side (i mean apps not included in distro) apps you use in Windows and in Linux, you will find the answer about security. Even light usage of Linux (mostly for kernel compilation and some AOSP code) produces different services/apps crash. So, if i would use Linux as i'm using Windows, there will be even more crashes.
What i really hate in Linux is how much time it requires to be prepared for some non-generic environment. If somehow happen distro doesn't provide required package (even from dedicated support server), or more worse if package version is different from required, then be prepared for "sex" with Linux. You can spend a lot of time to compile and most likely to fix incompatibilities in source code. Sometimes such preparation takes several days. And then when you are prepared, you can compile that code in 5 minutes. Nope.. Such productivity isn't for me. In most cases i even don't expect compilation because i simply want to use some utility. And then i find that pre-compiled version doesn't work. Because there is very low compatibility between different versions of Linux. Even binary compiled for Linux release couple years ago may not work in more modern Linux (unless it statically linked, but even in this case there is no warranty). And if it doesn't work, see my description about preparation to compile it
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Actually, every distro is binary compatible -- binaries are based on the processor, so every Linux x86-64 computer can run any binaries on my Arch Linux system. You're either referring to package compatibility, as different distros use different package managers, or just that you don't have all the dependencies (such as the libraries required to run).
Secondly, I'm surprised to hear how many crashes and issues you have with Linux... I easily get an uptime of 30 days+ without a single issue and then choose -- not get forced -- to reboot because my kernel is out of date. I've heard Ubuntu has given people issues but I use Arch which required me to know my hardware to install exactly what I need -- nothing more. Arch, being rolling release and up-to-date, is amazingly stable and also ensures you are in the driver's seat.
Thirdly, while you're right that you can have a secure Windows, the problem is how freely Windows gives out root permissions -- it's just asking for malware. Especially if you make youeself an admin, have fun running as root 24/7. Any *nix OS has an incredibly strong user system -- my system itself has over 20 users on it even though I am the only human who uses it. The other 19 users run programs and keep privileges separate. That and Linux is open source, so instead of like 1000 people looking through the source code you have over 10,000 eyes that may see any vulnerabilities. Windows "security through obscurity" is absolute crap; I will gladly use Windows once they go open source and I can get rid of that bloated UI and use something I have full control of.
Like you said, it really depends on a lot of things... however, as a power user I could never go back to Windows. I need freedom and transparency; Windows offers neither. Definitely don't think less of people who use Windows; some people want things to just work and don't care about anything else. I like things to work exactly like I want them to work and to be in control of what goes on with my computer. It's really just preference; my system is constantly changing and I configured everything myself. It's hard to describe, but when your OS becomes a project -- your project -- that you put time and effort in to get working like you want it's a really gratifying feeling
Jhdoubleoseven said:
or just that you don't have all the dependencies (such as the libraries required to run).
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Exactly. Sorry for wrong wording.