Database Users

HTC Shift under Linux!

At first I had a really hard time accepting pof's claim that the HTC-Shift could be run under Linux and indeed my first attempts at this turned into a blinding nightmare of installs & reinstalls and utter frustration.
Because I tried to install my Laptop's SuSE Linux on the box, which won't even boot below version 11.0.
And even so it does install OK with 11.0 SuSE and I had sound and graphic running, none of the other functions could be enabled no matter what.
Last not least I have to say that other SuSE distros either have a hard time booting right on the Shift (DSL, GParted distro) w/o safety kernel parameters set or get problems with the graphics HW (e.g. Knoppix).
I made those initial mistakes because dear old pof forgot to make clear that the drivers he collected should only run on (K/X)Ubuntu.
Because as I found out through my own research, specially the SD6868 driver was specifically developed by & for the Ubuntu project.
Many of the other distros didn't work right even after installation.
They either stalled during boot time or got the partition table all messed up.
Specially the boot via GRUB install (for dual boot with WinXP) turned out to be a pain in the ass with anything but Ubuntu.
Only Ubuntu booted right away (still had to disable edd, apm and acpi on the installation, but with it all went through fine the first time around).
So please dear pof update your Website to point out that only Ubuntu (or Kubuntu/Xubuntu) should be used on the Shift.
With that, pof's driver collection works out of the box.
But the Touchscreen needs calibration and the Touchpad's sensitivity is originally set way to low.
Once those two settings are corrected it all works fine (albeit the touchscreen is still a bit clunky, its good enough to move windows around, fill out input forms and highlight text).
The WiFi connection also worked right away and was even faster than under Windoze - BUT I can not connect to a standard WEP128 bit encrypted network.
Only unencrypted connections seem to work at this time.
Battery and sensor connections also work, as does the USB port.
I can also switch resolutions - but no longer with the screen button which now only tilts the desktops, I have to use the KDE screen resolution application for that.
The font rendering has way(!!) improved over Vista. I finally can read small texts even at higher resolution.
And overall responsiveness is almost to fast for me
No more coffee breaks between tasks and boot-up time is down to under 3 minutes!
Multimedia also works at blazing speeds now. I can watch large movies at real time and even do MultiMedia editing.
Best of all, that nasty Vista bug with the missing/dropping SD cards is gone.
So all in all it was a steep learning curve (as always /w Linux) but now I finally got a useful machine which is a real asset to my productivity!

pharao said:
So please dear pof update your Website to point out that only Ubuntu (or Kubuntu/Xubuntu) should be used on the Shift.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my website it clearly states that the binary driver packages I published is for Ubuntu based distros only, because that's what I use on the shift. I also explain the "long way" to compile stuff etc, in case you want to run them in any other distro, because you can run any linux flavour on the shift as long as you have experience compiling your own kernel, and building some packages from source.

pof said:
In my website it clearly states that the binary driver packages I published is for Ubuntu based distros only, because that's what I use on the shift. I also explain the "long way" to compile stuff etc, in case you want to run them in any other distro, because you can run any linux flavour on the shift as long as you have experience compiling your own kernel, and building some packages from source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's exactly it pof ... it just won't compile on most other systems.
On SuSE you'll have double trouble because first the darn install DVD don't boot with anything below 11.0 but then the kernel for 11.0 starts with release x.26.
That's one version number to high for your package and even so I tried to still compile it in there, the modules won't load.
Second, the GUIs of these distros are just to separate amongst the different packages.
DSL boots up all right, but has trouble installing itself on the Hard Drive, much more so with the Desktop setting and any attempt at switching resolution.
Knoppix works sometimes and then again it doesn't - was never able to figure out what that was all about.
And the SuSE 11.0 distro doesn't give any error messages when I call up the embeddec controller program - heck the damn thing even allows me to click all around. But nothing happens, not with any of them.
And don't even try to get me started on trying to install Debian packages under SuSE :-(
I'm not sure how much you are into Linux pof, but messing around with the kernel is the last thing you want to do unless you're sure its gonna work.
And I've found that K/X/Ubuntu is the only distro that works out of the box, even during the install phase.
So I think just stating "well the packages are for Debian/Ubuntu systems but you can compile them on other distros, too" is not quite sufficient - as those other distros did cost me a week of my life (time I'd like to have back ;-)
Fact is that Ubuntu doesn't just work on the Shift right away, but its also the fastest distro amongst the ones I've listed.
So for all these reasons Ubuntu should get a big highlight with the sidenote "all other distros at your own risk as your mileage will(!) vary"
Only encrypted WiFi still isn't working...
PS: The folks at SuSE seem to be contemplating their own SD6868 driver for their next 11.x Alpha release - found a note to that regard on a developer blog.

And External mouse doesn't work
pof said:
In my website it clearly states that the binary driver packages I published is for Ubuntu based distros only, because that's what I use on the shift. I also explain the "long way" to compile stuff etc, in case you want to run them in any other distro, because you can run any linux flavour on the shift as long as you have experience compiling your own kernel, and building some packages from source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dear Pof,
I used your custm drivers for ubuntu,Screen touch working great but external mouse has stopped wiorking.Is there anything wrong I have done ?
Thanks

Ubuntu on the HTC Shift

I've been checking out the stuff on the web about Linux on the shift, found these, pretty interesting. This ubuntu even detects the motion rolling from left to right, and he makes the cursor move around the screen by tilting the unit. Also has csreen rotation working:
http://mobilitysite.com/2008/07/ubuntu-in-a-htc-shift/
another one:
http://pof.eslack.org/blog/2008/04/14/linux-on-htc-shift/
"Once Ubuntu is installed, you get a menu at boot time which lets you choose which operating system to boot, Vista or Ubuntu. Surprisingly most of the hardware is auto-detected by ubuntu, and almost everything works out of the box:
* Audio is working, mute and volume control works using the Fn keys.
* SD card reader is working.
* Adjusting the screen backlight works with the proper Fn keys.
* Webcam is working (you can test it with gstreamer-properties).
* CPU frequency scaling works by default too on the Intel Stealy 800Mhz CPU, you can monitor it by enabling the cpufreq gnome pannel.
* ACPI is working, you can get the CPU temperature using the sensors-applet.
* Screen resolution works at 800×480. I have not tried higher resolutions yet.
* Bluetooth is working.
However there are a few things that require some extra work in order to have them working properly."

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=381915

its pof old work! it works only with 8.04 but once updated the system, most pof works will not work.

Hi
I installed Ubuntu last night as I can't get any other version of Windows (except the memory and space hogging Vista) to install at the moment.
I was very impressed with how much DID work without any fiddling and now I shall spend another few evenings reading exactly how to make the rest of it work.
I'm hoping to be able to then get rid of Vista (but not off the X partition JUST IN CASE!) and regain some space, but I think that I need Windows to run some software for my OU degree course... rather important given this was my excuse for buying a SHIFT (so I'd always be able to work on my degree regardless of where I was (or so my other half thinks!)).
However I know NOTHING about Linux and am somewhat daunted by it but also looking forward to getting a more "hands on" with the Shift and some more computing experience under my belt.
I am rather excited by the concept of actually being able to use things like the g-sensor. Why would HTC put it in then give you nothing to make it work under Vista? Kinda sums up their decision-process when creating the Shift, if you ask me...

Ubuntu on an external USB hard disk also works as described. Wireless doesn't work; this is noted elsewhere in this thread: the 8686 drivers need to be found, compiled, and installed; any detailed pointers would be much appreciated. 640x480 resolution (only) is a major drawback, as control panels come up with essential buttons off screen, and there doesn't seem to be any trick to move them on screen. It boots much faster and it is much more responsive than VISTA ... I would make Ubuntu permanent on the Shift platform if I could get wireless and the resolution control working.

cnbabbage said:
I would make Ubuntu permanent on the Shift platform if I could get wireless and the resolution control working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go to POF's website (link in the second link in the first message of this thread I think) there is an installer packet that should make WIFI work although being a Linux novice, it doesn't for me! It seems to do what it's meant to do as I can see stuff happening in the terminal window but nothing actually happens or changes after it's done...
I agree that the resolution is a BIG problem at 800 x 640 or whatever it is under Ubuntu 8.04 and hope someone has a solution soon PLEASE!

for Resolution, you can go and reconfig your Xserver yourself. Never used to get it to work on ubuntu but on gentoo no problem at all.
All other pof stuff will work with smal adjustments !! just read the right threads.

Neutron83 said:
for Resolution, you can go and reconfig your Xserver yourself. Never used to get it to work on ubuntu but on gentoo no problem at all.
All other pof stuff will work with smal adjustments !! just read the right threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I did well to get as far as I did as a Noob actually (and a girl one at that!). I have no problem with people saying "search the forum" to people who ask simple questions like "how do I access SnapVue" but when someone's clearly done their research and is still struggling, it's very frustrating. I've just spent nearly ALL weekend on this forum (and google) and got as far as making Ubuntu 8.10 work as I wanted except Wifi and screen resolution, given no one else has mentioned any of these necessities working on 8.10 as far as I can remember and the fact I know nothing about Linux!! Proof in point; your first comment about the Xserver - I don't even know what that is (though I've probably been fiddling in it)
When I have the time I'll start a new thread with all my wonderful findings so it's all in one place - but I have to earn a living and feed the family so it's not high on my agenda this week. I'm due some time off work, so will aim to get it done then (like painting the kitchen and making curtains for my daughter's room...!)

I can upload older ubuntu 8.04 someplace. With this version all pofs configs and hacks work normally.

Hello together!
I'm also working on getting a current Linux up and running on the Shift (Arch Linux with kernel 2.6.28) and found these problems/"solutions":
- Display: I believe that's a combined hard- and software problem. The display doesn't report its correct capabilities and the driver doesn't handle interpolated resolutions that well (I modified the driver for this). I already mailed this to the xorg mailing list, but I didn't get an answer (perhaps I missed some information like driver version)
- Wifi: The old Marvell driver (from their website) isn't compatible with 2.6.28 anymore, but there is a new one in the kernel itself (called libertas), that only needs the firmware in /lib/firmware (check out this git repo if you need to). But at least in my case the chip is still not working, cause the SD controller is buggy and unknown. But I'm talking with some Devs who are willing to help.
- Touchscreen: You need this module to glue htcpen and the xserver together. Then it works like in Pof's manual.
All in all: I believe in having a fully working Linux on the Shift somewhen
Greetings,
Sven

Oaky guys:
Xserver = your grafical environment
Yea u're right the display doesnt send useable stuff to the Soft but you can hard overwrite the combinations of wich ModeLines are used, its a bit more advanced linux stuff but as far as you dont try to learn you wont get it .... i acctually use a 1024 x 600 is possible and i use it !
I Can give my x config to you here if you like to ! (When i am home
sorry for my roughness but i am not a linux pro just advanced PC user and i was able to do such stuff also !!
Greets

Appreciated!
If you could post your config when you have time I would be grateful (as would others!)

@Neutron83:
What version of the intel driver are you using? I'm using 2.4.1 (and newer) and I wasn't able to override the setting no matter what I did. But please share your config. I'd like to give it a chance.
Greeting,
Sven

please, can someone confirm me that ubuntu can do 1024x600 on htc shift?
i would like to buy one of them but i'm not sure about 1024x600 under linux.
thanks a lot

someone posted that xorg_conf can be modified in someway to get bigger resolution. no one have posted working config for this yet. If someone could post it, it would be great.

Shift's screen is 800x480 pixels (http://www.htc.com/europe/faqs.aspx?p_id=60&cat=0&id=45486.) Bundled software (~\htc\resolution.exe and ~\htc\ResolutioLauncher.exe) switches between native 800x480 and emulated 1024x600.
Any progress on a linux driver for the Marvell 8686 wifi card?

Hi @All,
maybe somewhere experts of you can build a script again for Ubuntu 9 users, the most of them I think can work with Linux, but the most are Windows users (like me) and are overstrained with modding aditional Hardware into Ubuntu ;-)

How's everyone going with Ubuntu on the Shift? Samstables?
I'm downloading and installing the current wubi to put ubuntu on with vista as a dual boot to see how much works out of the box and how much I can get working mucking around (low level linux user here )

hmm... my shift is a dustcover at the moment...

pls give me image iso ubuntu on a works drivers!!

HD2 NAND Slax? Is it possible?

Is it possible to develop a Slax NAND build for HD2?

Everything is possible, but someone needs to do it and this often depends on general or personal interest.. And as we see there isn't much interest even in Ubuntu.. Sadly..

I interested on this...
What's that? Linux? If yes, it should more easier to port it to the HD2...
WAIT! Where is the source code?

hopkinskong said:
I interested on this...
What's that? Linux? If yes, it should more easier to port it to the HD2...
WAIT! Where is the source code?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a tiny linux @ slax.org and

yehoo said:
It's a tiny linux @ slax.org and
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and? and what?

hopkinskong said:
and? and what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh God the suspense!!!

Looks like a 'normal' Linux distro..
We already have Ubuntu if you want KDE.

Well its small enough to be flashed to NAND.

yeah this would actually be interestingly enough to port its only 200 MBs not bad if only someone started getting interested into building it, does sound like quite a treat

I'd use it. Wish I could build. D:

I interested on this and i want to compile it, just can't find the source...
If i can find the source, i also don't know where to start... This is my first porting!
PS: Only SD Version lol, i don't like flashing HSPL on my phone

I don't know why people seem to think there is no interest in Ubuntu on the HD2 anymore, people have just switched to using the nand version of android so without the magldr version being released people can't use ubuntu on their phones, I personally have been waiting for the last few months for the magldr version to launch but it seems like the project is dead, some users have reported getting it working but no one seems willing to explain in detail how they did it, or upload a working version them selves. Back to the topic, I would love to have slax as well.

great idea
this Slax is actually the best idea i've seen so far, when it comes to linux distro's on our HD2. now i can see why ubuntu is popular for desktops and laptops, and it's nice that it comes with all that bloatware so you can just run it right out of the box. in fact i currently run linux mint on my laptop and desktop at home which is very similar to ubuntu. i enjoy it a lot.
however, when it comes to our phones we dont necessarily need all that extra stuff hogging space, processor etc. if we could get Slax going, then we could choose those programs we want through the repository and who doesn't like to customize?
above all, this would also increase performance, as we've all come to learn that when it comes to computing, less programs = better. if i was in charge of the whole operation, i would suspend all linux projects right now and focus all elements on the Slax project. get this running and then branch from it.
2 big selling points...
1. size, Ubuntu 3+ gigs - Slax 200MB
2. portability. Slax is designed to be a 'pocket operating system' as it says on it's home page.
hope this gets going +1 for bringing it to attention.
Slax - your pocket operating system

I have recently uploaded guides to running Ubuntu, Debian etc at good speed under Nandroid. Check the Ubuntu Dev Forum.

Great, a big bump first
Ok, i just tried, Slackware worked on HD2 via MAGLDR(I didn't get WM6.5, so i didn't test on HaRET)
I have boot into runlevel 3(multiuser mode, hardware btn work)
but when i switch to runlevel 4, i can't start my GDM/KDE,XDE, and i have searched halfday on the web i can't find any solution...
I tried GDM for i486, it returned:
Code:
gdm-binary:cannot execute binary file
And i can't find any GDM for ARM... Hmm Yes, i find a GDM for arm, but it is debian...
So any solution?
Things need to be do more research:
Make GUI back using GDM/KDE/XDE
touchscreen?
3G?
Wifi?
I can't continue if i can't solve the GDM problem!
btw, i know slackware would very fast it was only ~200 MB, it would be faster if i put this on NAND, but how?

have you tried grabing the source for the GDM from wither the backtrack or ubuntu repos? with the source alone, you should be able to compile it into SLAX (if the lack of a custom kernel will let you though, ive been having that problem frequently with the BT im working on.)

z3nful said:
have you tried grabing the source for the GDM from wither the backtrack or ubuntu repos? with the source alone, you should be able to compile it into SLAX (if the lack of a custom kernel will let you though, ive been having that problem frequently with the BT im working on.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will it be great just grab this?
http://git.gnome.org/browse/gdm/
Thanks

I was thinking the easyist way to get it is to boot up bt or Ubuntu, go to synaptic, and find the source in there. I thougt I saw it in bt, but I can't check, all my batteries are dead lol
Sent from my HD2 Pocket Laptop

z3nful said:
I was thinking the easyist way to get it is to boot up bt or Ubuntu, go to synaptic, and find the source in there. I thougt I saw it in bt, but I can't check, all my batteries are dead lol
Sent from my HD2 Pocket Laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just clone the git, then i can't continue, i received this error:
Code:
[email protected]:~/Desktop/HD2Slackware/gdm/gdm$ ./autogen.sh
No such schema 'org.gnome.power-manager'
No such schema 'org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.media-keys'
**Error**: Script `./data/make-dconf-override-db.sh' failed
But i have installed Power Manager already
And because i can't find gdm-source/dev in the package manager, so i think the HD2 Ubuntu will have a same result...
So... What should i do?
Thanks
Update:
I just grabbed a tar.gz from their site and it already contains "configure" file, so i don't need to do autogen.sh
And now its the problem, how to cross compile that stuff?
make <-- No error, but where is the product?
make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=/path-of-toolchain <--- the result is same as running "make", i think it igroned my cross compile var lol
I felt sleepy, see your reply tomorrow... (Its 4:20 AM lol)

I got no idea, I've mainly just worked with debian/Ubuntu :/ I clouldnt find the right sources either
Sent from my HD2 Pocket Laptop

Windows 3.1

I wasn't sure where to put this but oh well, if it shouldn't be here a mod can move it
Anyway I just wanted to say, I managed to install windows 3.1 on my tab through dosbox with the original windows setup files. There isn't much use for it but it works fine and can install old dos games. I am going to try the same process for windows 95, now that would be cool. I read it has been done on android. But will have to see after I extract the win 95 setup files.
Also if anybody asks the question what is the point of doing that?
The answer is because I can and I want to ;-)

Cool. I'd like to see XP installed if at all possible after you attempt 95 (and succeed at it) .

Xp would be impossible really. Not by any meens I am aware of anyway. Pretty sure I can get 95 working. Still trying to find a working win95 image. All the .img files I have tried are missing the boot file. I am about to start looking again Also win 98 may be possible, sombody managed to boot it on another android device (can't remember what it was) but it was so laggy it was un useable but with the tab 10.1's power maybe it could work. Don't know though, it wasn't run through dosbox anyway.

Well done. It would have been slightly more impressive if you managed to install it off original floppies!

beta546 said:
Xp would be impossible really. Not by any meens I am aware of anyway. Pretty sure I can get 95 working. Still trying to find a working win95 image. All the .img files I have tried are missing the boot file. I am about to start looking again Also win 98 may be possible, sombody managed to boot it on another android device (can't remember what it was) but it was so laggy it was un useable but with the tab 10.1's power maybe it could work. Don't know though, it wasn't run through dosbox anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was a Samsung Moment, oddly enough, if I remember right.

Not sure. It has been done on nokias n900, psp and ps3. I have managed to get win 95 working on my tab but all from an image and not with dosbox so can't access my own files like I can on win 3.1. I also got windows 3.11 going in dos box wich is a bit better than 3.1 with a few improvements. For 95 I used files for another android phone and it uses libsdl to load the image of 95, but like I say that way I can't access my sd card through 95, but if I get it going in dosbox my sd is mounted as the hdd. I think I can extract the image and add things too it like game files and stuff. If anybody wants to run 3.11 or 95 on there tab I can post links and files but just so you know %95 of it is other people's work, I just got it going on the tab, 3.11 was a bit harder as it wouldnt boot on it's own in dos box so had to merge the 3.11 windows folder with my 3.1 folder and then it worked Installing 3.1 was crazy cos it takes you though the old windows install just like a pc and installs the windows folder on sd then you boot from that in dosbox using the win.com file. Anyway it's just a bit of fun and it's keeping me occupied so if anybody wants to play around I can tell you how. Don't know if I can post windows files here though, anybody know the score on that? I am pretty sure 3.1 and 95 are considderd abandonware as it would be impossible to purchase them from microsoft, I had bough them many years ago so technically I own the license to them so can download them legally

I had Win98 (I think) running on my Nexus One, it's a fun gimick.
Would be better on the GTab.

Yeah 95 and 98 will work fine just dosbox can't mount the sd as a drive when using the boot cmd so nothing can be installed unless I can unpack the .img file and add stuff, still haven't got to my computer yet to try 3.1 is fully functional as it runs inside dos box , the sd is mounted as the file system so you can navigate through windows to install old dos games and 3.1 apps

GalaxyNinja said:
Well done. It would have been slightly more impressive if you managed to install it off original floppies!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Difficult seeing the lack of a 3.5 floppy drive on the tab!
Anyway the floppies didn't contain windows, just the boot files and drivers to use the cd rom.

Content redacted.
Have a nice day.

BoulderGeek said:
I used to have to install Windows 3.1 and office with a pile of 80 floppy disks.
I think of Win3.1 as only slightly less attractive than those partial birth abortion posters the clinic bombers harass people with. That kruft needs to stay dead and buried.
Kudos for the technical chops, but I want all Windows zombies to die harsh deaths.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Nice image. But if you ain't got anything interesting to post then don't bother. So what if 3.1 and 95 are old and crappy. That's not the point. The point is Android lets us do so much stuff and it is always good to find out what our devices can do. *****ing and slagging somthing off is just stupid. The whole idea od these forums is so people can stretch the linits of of there phones and tablets. Yes running 3.1 isn't exactly stretching the 10.1's power but being able to install and run windows on android is pretty crazy. I only started this thread to tell people about it. It was just a little project for me cos wanted to play some of the ganes I did when I was young.
Not interested in starting an argument but nobody wants to see comments like that!

Edited due to an inability to communicate my original intent.
Good for you.

BoulderGeek said:
Edited due to an inability to communicate my original intent.
Good for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No point trying to sound clever after talking about aborted babys like that!

beta546 said:
No point trying to sound clever after talking about aborted babys like that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stfu, troll. You should be aborted. your inability to read disqualifies you.
Eat a bowl of dicks.
Posted from a BAMF 'Bolt running Skyraider Zeus.

Lol
Originally Posted by BoulderGeek
I used to have to install Windows 3.1 and office with a pile of 80 floppy disks.
I think of Win3.1 as only slightly less attractive than those partial birth abortion posters the clinic bombers harass people with. That kruft needs to stay dead and buried.
Kudos for the technical chops, but I want all Windows zombies to die harsh deaths.
Which part of that have I misunderstood?!?!

Enable Desktop Mode?

I'm a major power user of Windows. At work, I am a sysadmin, managing hundreds of Windows servers (from 2003 to 2008 R2). Exchange servers, Citrix/Terminal servers, Active Directory are my specialties. I have experience with programming .NET, VBScript, php, and a bit of Java. I would say I have about 18 years of computing experience, the first problem I had to fix myself was DOS6.22 not locating my CDROM drive, the issue turned out to be an mscdex problem
I'm pretty good with *nix as well, though not as good as my Windows skills, I am pretty good with my way around command line on bsd and linux. Although I have a passion for PCs, I have also dabbled with macs, and can manage and repair them as well. Oh I completely forgot to mention my hardware background, but I don't really do too much with that nowadays, so might not be that relevant.
Over the last year I have started to play with Android devices, I have a Motorola Droid4 as my phone, and a Nexus 7 as my tablet.
My PC usage habits have changed since I got my first tablet, I use my PC for what I would consider, advanced tasks. Things like building ISOs, and bootable USB sticks, repairing/managing my android devices (things like moto rsdlite, or factory restore on my nexus 7), banking, deep research, and working from home (which includes a variety of management of system utilities using RDP to the office). I have been using Windows 8 for about a day and like to new interface of the desktop but find the "Windows 8 Style" (formerly known as metro) pretty disappointing since it's a 1 app at a time thing, NOT something I would want to do on my PC (I mean how often do you have only one thing up on the screen, that's fullscreen??). Is there a way I can use Windows 8 in desktop only mode? I don't know about you, but doing development in Metro doesn't seem very smart to me...

and your point being? cannot believe i wasted my time reading this post...

http://google.com/search?q="windows+8"+desktop+mode+default

e.mote said:
http://google.com/search?q="windows+8"+desktop+mode+default
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He is so experienced, yet he does not know how to search? you should not feed the trolls

nitr8 said:
He is so experienced, yet he does not know how to search? you should not feed the trolls
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I spent about 2 hours searching last night with no success. But to desktop mode had been disabled in RTM, which is why I've posted a thread on this forum. Xda always has ways around things.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

>But to desktop mode had been disabled in RTM
You're saying that the methods in the below link (2nd link in above Google search) no longer work?
http://blog.laptopmag.com/6-ways-to-totally-avoid-metro-and-use-only-desktop-mode-in-windows-8
I'll have the RTM installed this weekend and will find out first hand. My real interest in Win8 is Windows-to-Go, and I'll see if it can be done with the Pro edition. If not, then we'll need to get more creative.
>Xda always has ways around things.
XDA is strong with Android, but there are better forums for Win8 info.

e.mote said:
>But to desktop mode had been disabled in RTM
You're saying that the methods in the below link (2nd link in above Google search) no longer work?
http://blog.laptopmag.com/6-ways-to-totally-avoid-metro-and-use-only-desktop-mode-in-windows-8
I'll have the RTM installed this weekend and will find out first hand. My real interest in Win8 is Windows-to-Go, and I'll see if it can be done with the Pro edition. If not, then we'll need to get more creative.
>Xda always has ways around things.
XDA is strong with Android, but there are better forums for Win8 info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding boot to desktop review the following link:
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-said...-straight-to-desktop-in-windows-8-7000002219/
Don't waste your time with pro, you'll need enterprise for Windows-to-Go.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

desktop is there, click desktop or hit the win button,
use metro as a start menu, apps are apps, wee programs to run on metro, applications or programs are big programs to run in desktop
in short, consider getting used to it. as you at length told us, you know a great deal, and pulling out the mscdex issue suggests....very little actually, as to know what you were doing with that would have required you to learn how to use it and know that was only one half of the potential issues with cd drives.
so my point being, try it, learn it, get used to it, and i can promise you, you'll go back to win 7 or xp one day and think is like stepping back in time to some god forsaken inefficient decade of OS design,

>Don't waste your time with pro, you'll need enterprise for Windows-to-Go.
That's the official line. The imagex route worked for the CP, so I'll try that for the Pro and see what happens. Else, we'll see.
In any case, I've no doubt that the WTG feature will be hacked out and made available as a standalone before long. It's the cherry on top of Win8, and a bull's-eye for every hacker.
As dazza said: Search. Try different things. And have patience and wait for solutions. Remember that Win8 isn't officially released yet.
MS can block certain methods, but it cannot block everything, like setting up a task or a keyboard macro to bypass the UI on boot-up. Here's one method (yes, this came up in a search):
http://pureinfotech.com/2012/08/14/script-bypass-start-screen-windows-8-desktop/
Anyway, your disdain of Metro is a common refrain, and there'll be solutions to address it.
I need to get a good ebook on Win8 nuts & bolts. Any recommendations out there? OK I'll take my own advice and search before ask..."Windows 8 Unleashed"..."Windows 8 for Dummies"

Thanks, that's a good suggestion; creating the scheduled task. At this point a lot of the OS is pretty much what I would consider "half baked". Reminds me of a Blackberry situation, where they have this grand OS, with not a lot of developer support. I'd like to get my google apps into the metro portion, and I am hoping in the future something will come along to replace the desktop without the start menu (seems sort of like a silly solution to force people to use metro). I'm not against the metro UI, for what I use PCs for it just doesn't really work that well.
I'm planning on continuing to use it for another month, and since I'm an MS admin, it's something I'll have to get used to whether I like it or not, that's why I came to this forum to ask around.
Again, thanks for the searching on the issue. I'm sure this will help others in their search for a boot to desktop solution.

danifunker said:
Thanks, that's a good suggestion; creating the scheduled task. At this point a lot of the OS is pretty much what I would consider "half baked". Reminds me of a Blackberry situation, where they have this grand OS, with not a lot of developer support. I'd like to get my google apps into the metro portion, and I am hoping in the future something will come along to replace the desktop without the start menu (seems sort of like a silly solution to force people to use metro). I'm not against the metro UI, for what I use PCs for it just doesn't really work that well.
I'm planning on continuing to use it for another month, and since I'm an MS admin, it's something I'll have to get used to whether I like it or not, that's why I came to this forum to ask around.
Again, thanks for the searching on the issue. I'm sure this will help others in their search for a boot to desktop solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my point is, you dont have to use it other than for a fancy start menu, and even then you dont have to use it, pin a folder to the task bar and you have an instant ld fashioned start menu.
think of it this way, turn PC on, up pops metro giving you at a glance a little bit of info on everything you have setup, pop in to desktop and get on with work, every now and then you can flick to metro to get a little update, if you want to read more without opening the full blown program an app may do the job, if you need to do a bit more work with the item in question then you can fire up the main program, its just a different way of thinking, but i can assure you, if you put in the effort, you will find your productivity measurably improved!

>At this point a lot of the OS is pretty much what I would consider "half baked"
I see Win8 as work in progress, which probably means the same as yours. Yes, desktop/Metro integration is poor. But MS had to implement a touch UI, integrate it with existing WIMP UI, set up an app store infrastructure, and support the ARM platform. That's a lot for one rev, so it'll take two (or more). I think of RTM as Release Preview 2.
My SWAG is that Win8 will have a mixed reception, and MS will quickly push out a service pack next year to address the shortcomings.
x86 aside, I'm interested in how WinRT will fare. As do MS, no doubt. The rumor of $199 RT toy has at least a whiff of truth to it.

Classic Shell now supports RTM, and has options to bypass Metro UI & disable hot corners
http://www.overclock.net/t/1295961/sf-classic-shell-is-officially-released-for-windows-8-rtm
For those who have Synaptic touchpads, you can use the latest Win7 drivers, although edge-swipe functions aren't implemented:
http://www.synaptics.com/resources/drivers/
Win8 beta Synaptics driver w/ edge-swipes below. It works, but is a little buggy. Left-edge swipe (task switch) gets activated at odd times.
http://drivers.softpedia.com/progDo...161811-for-Windows-8-x64-Download-172310.html
Frankly, for non-touchscreen PCs, you won't miss the Metro UI or the edge swipes. Will have to know your shortcuts, though.

Better yet,
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/157302-windows-7-explorer-for-windows-8/

danifunker said:
I'm a major power user of Windows. At work, I am a sysadmin, managing hundreds of Windows servers (from 2003 to 2008 R2). Exchange servers, Citrix/Terminal servers, Active Directory are my specialties. I have experience with programming .NET, VBScript, php, and a bit of Java. I would say I have about 18 years of computing experience, the first problem I had to fix myself was DOS6.22 not locating my CDROM drive, the issue turned out to be an mscdex problem
I'm pretty good with *nix as well, though not as good as my Windows skills, I am pretty good with my way around command line on bsd and linux. Although I have a passion for PCs, I have also dabbled with macs, and can manage and repair them as well. Oh I completely forgot to mention my hardware background, but I don't really do too much with that nowadays, so might not be that relevant.
Over the last year I have started to play with Android devices, I have a Motorola Droid4 as my phone, and a Nexus 7 as my tablet.
My PC usage habits have changed since I got my first tablet, I use my PC for what I would consider, advanced tasks. Things like building ISOs, and bootable USB sticks, repairing/managing my android devices (things like moto rsdlite, or factory restore on my nexus 7), banking, deep research, and working from home (which includes a variety of management of system utilities using RDP to the office). I have been using Windows 8 for about a day and like to new interface of the desktop but find the "Windows 8 Style" (formerly known as metro) pretty disappointing since it's a 1 app at a time thing, NOT something I would want to do on my PC (I mean how often do you have only one thing up on the screen, that's fullscreen??). Is there a way I can use Windows 8 in desktop only mode? I don't know about you, but doing development in Metro doesn't seem very smart to me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, good ol' MSCDEX . Anyway, I've been an IT guy for about the same amount of time as you (16, just shy of 17 years) and personally, I love Windows 8. My suggestion is this: use the desktop for desktop things, and use Metro for Metro things. Revolutionary advice, I know . To answer the question of "when would I use an app full screen?" the answer is simple: When you want to be *productive* in that app. Studies have shown that people working in clean, full-screen workspaces get more done because they have fewer distractions.
Metro, to be sure, is not a "one size fits all" solution. It does certain things exceptionally well, and others are best left to the desktop. And honestly, that's OK. I'd rather have an OS that can handle both worlds than have two distinct and separate OS's for different devices.
---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
e.mote said:
Classic Shell now supports RTM, and has options to bypass Metro UI & disable hot corners
http://www.overclock.net/t/1295961/sf-classic-shell-is-officially-released-for-windows-8-rtm
For those who have Synaptic touchpads, you can use the latest Win7 drivers, although edge-swipe functions aren't implemented:
http://www.synaptics.com/resources/drivers/
Win8 beta Synaptics driver w/ edge-swipes below. It works, but is a little buggy. Left-edge swipe (task switch) gets activated at odd times.
http://drivers.softpedia.com/progDo...161811-for-Windows-8-x64-Download-172310.html
Frankly, for non-touchscreen PCs, you won't miss the Metro UI or the edge swipes. Will have to know your shortcuts, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank goodness there are options for people who can't bring themselves to move forward with the times .

>My suggestion is this: use the desktop for desktop things, and use Metro for Metro things.
That's the problem. Many desktop users would just want to do desktop things and ignore Metro altogether, but Metro is mandatory for apps navigation.
I understand MS' motivation for pushing Metro, although I don't have to like it: It wants to get Metro (and App Store) as many eyeballs as possible, to get people used to the notion of "buying apps" for desktops. It needs to do this to kick-start Metro apps, and thereby give WinRT a boost. The change is for MS' benefit more than the users. As you said yourself, Metro can't do desktop duties, and it only ends up annoying desktop users.
>To answer the question of "when would I use an app full screen?" the answer is simple: When you want to be *productive* in that app. Studies have shown
This is a bad blanket statement in that it assumes everybody works (or should work) the same way. People don't. It also ignores the reality that people are used to certain ways of getting things done, and resent being forced to relinquish those routines for purportedly "better" ones. That's a recipe for wholesale userbase loss.
BTW, a tip: Don't use the phrase "studies have shown." Any time you have to reach for "scientific surveys/studies/experts," it's already a losing argument.
I'm a proponent of Windows 8. I think it's a step in the right direction. But I recognize it's a love-hate relationship with Metro, and both sides have their justifications. It's a subjective thing, and appealing to authority (studies) isn't the answer. The only verdict that matters is from Win8 PC and tablet sales, and we'll know in Oct how Metro will fare.

I found something...
Interesting that I found it in the forbes.com website, I didn't even know they had technical articles!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/adriankingsleyhughes/2012/08/23/restore-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/
In the article it mentions something called Start8. This program is pretty much what I wanted.
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/
I'll follow up after I've used Start8 for a little while longer.