I have an Acer Iconia W700P (Windows 8 Professional) tablet. Although it has only a capacitive touchscreen, not an active digitizer, it came with a nice stylus that is extremely accurate for tasks such as ticking small checkboxes and dragging over text to select it.
The problem I'm having is trying to write or draw in, e.g., Windows Journal or Paint: small features tend to be smoothed out and not registered. E.g., if I attempt to write a number of consecutive lowercase e's ("eeeeeee") at a normal handwriting size, what appears on the screen is a slightly wiggly line; the loops are all gone. I know from dragging over text and such that it's not a question of accurately registering the position of the stylus; it's just that small movements of the stylus are being suppressed or ignored.
A couple of questions: Is this a common issue with Windows 8 touchscreens, or is it specific to Acer? In either case, is there some sort of registry tweak or other setting I can make to get the tablet to register small stylus movements?
Even if no one has a suggestion for fixing the problem, I'd still be interested in knowing if people with other Windows 8 computers with capacitive touchscreens have the same issue. It would be nice to know if this is Acer-specific so I can file a bug report with them, in case it's not a general Windows problem. Thx.
I haven't heard of the issue and don't own a touchscreen windows 8 device myself but my first thought is update speed.
How quickly are you writing the text, it might be that you are writing at a higher speed than the touch position is being updated which I think would be a driver issue.
Capacitive touch displays have a lower tracking resolution than those with active digitizers, hence the rationale for why the latter exists. It's not a bug or a problem. It's a hardware limitation, and there is no software tweak.
For future questions, please search before asking. This will save you time.
http://activeink.typepad.com/active_inks_blog/2011/09/n-trig-vs-wacom-the-digitizer-wars.html
e.mote said:
Capacitive touch displays have a lower tracking resolution than those with active digitizers, hence the rationale for why the latter exists. It's not a bug or a problem. It's a hardware limitation, and there is no software tweak.
For future questions, please search before asking. This will save you time.
http://activeink.typepad.com/active_inks_blog/2011/09/n-trig-vs-wacom-the-digitizer-wars.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply, but I'm afraid it didn't address my issue.
I am aware that the resolution of a capacitive touchscreen is less that that of an active digitizer; however, as I thought I had made clear in my original post, the accuracy of my stylus on this touchscreen is not a problem.
The issue is tracking motion. This is not a hardware issue, as far as I can tell. I have an Android phone with a capacitive screen (a Nexus 4), and I can reliably write and draw with small features accurately captured. There are videos on the website of the manufacturer of my stylus showing it being used with an iPad (which also has a capacitive touchscreen) to draw and write quite accurately, as well. However, the touchscreen driver (I assume) on my Windows 8 Acer Iconia W700 only accurately tracks the motion of the stylus when the movements are large (greater than 1 cm, approximately). Smaller motions are either squashed to a very small size or are suppressed altogether.
I did a bit more experimentation, and I can be a bit more specific in terms of what the problem is now. If I draw a line, say in Windows Journal, the starting position is accurate to perhaps 0.5 mm -- certainly within the limits of my manual dexterity, at least. The end of the line, however, is always 2-3 mm short of the position of the stylus when I lift it off the screen or change direction. The effect of that is if you're trying to draw a loop that's perhaps 5 mm tall is that the loop just isn't registered at all.
So again, the question is whether this is an Acer quirk or whether it's a Windows 8 issue.
>the accuracy of my stylus on this touchscreen is not a problem...The issue is tracking motion.
Please read better, I did say tracking resolution, not resolution. Inking--where tracking res comes into play--has been problematic on most every capacitive tablet on this site. The iPad is better than many, but it's not for serious inking, either. It works for only relatively large movements.
http://google.com/search?q=ipad+inking
Again, searching readily provides the answer. The issue is your preconception that it's somehow the manufacturer's or OS' fault, and despite answers to the contrary--from the variety of sites you've already asked this question--you cling to your belief.
The capacitive stylus' accuracy means nothing. It's a "dumb" stick with an electrically conductive tip. Tracking accuracy is dependent on the device's sensors, and different devices would likely have different tracking resolution. Smartphones have higher-density display resolution, and should have correspondingly better sensor resolution to match. But it's generally accepted that capacitive displays are not suitable for inking (writing) or drawing. It's in the very link I provided. People who need inking/drawing tablets inevitably use active digitizers.
>the question is whether this is an Acer quirk or whether it's a Windows 8 issue.
It's not a Win8 issue, because Surface Pro (which has a Wacom digitizer) works fine for inking.
http://google.com/search?q=surface+pro+inking
If you want to call the W700's sensor limitation a "quirk," then it's your right. But I don't think you'll get far with your quixotic quest to get better tracking resolution for your tablet. It was never advertised for inking.
e.mote said:
>the accuracy of my stylus on this touchscreen is not a problem...The issue is tracking motion.
Please read better, I did say tracking resolution, not resolution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My apologies for overlooking the word "tracking" in your reply. However, it still seems odd to me that the tablet is able to determine very accurately where I touch the stylus to the screen but not the position of the stylus after I have moved it some distance. And it has nothing to do with the speed with which I've moved the stylus, either.
e.mote said:
Inking--where tracking res comes into play--has been problematic on most every capacitive tablet on this site. The iPad is better than many, but it's not for serious inking, either. It works for only relatively large movements.
http://google.com/search?q=ipad+inking
Again, searching readily provides the answer. The issue is your preconception that it's somehow the manufacturer's or OS' fault, and despite answers to the contrary--from the variety of sites you've already asked this question--you cling to your belief.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, this is the first site where I've asked this that I've gotten any response at all, except for answers.microsoft.com, where the Microsoft tech suggested that it was an Acer issue, not that it was an inherent limitation of the technology.
e.mote said:
The capacitive stylus' accuracy means nothing. It's a "dumb" stick with an electrically conductive tip. Tracking accuracy is dependent on the device's sensors, and different devices would likely have different tracking resolution. Smartphones have higher-density display resolution, and should have correspondingly better sensor resolution to match. But it's generally accepted that capacitive displays are not suitable for inking (writing) or drawing. It's in the very link I provided. People who need inking/drawing tablets inevitably use active digitizers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I'm fully aware of the difference between a capacitive touchscreen and an active digitizer. I've owned devices of both kinds.
e.mote said:
>the question is whether this is an Acer quirk or whether it's a Windows 8 issue.
It's not a Win8 issue, because Surface Pro (which has a Wacom digitizer) works fine for inking.
http://google.com/search?q=surface+pro+inking
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Click to collapse
Which is irrelevant to the question at hand, for the very reason you mentioned: the Surface has a Wacom digitizer and a driver for that kind of device. The Acer W700 has a capacitive touchscreen and a corresponding driver. The fact that Windows does well with a Wacom device says nothing about whether the driver for a capacitive touchscreen device is deficient.
e.mote said:
If you want to call the W700's sensor limitation a "quirk," then it's your right. But I don't think you'll get far with your quixotic quest to get better tracking resolution for your tablet. It was never advertised for inking.
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Click to collapse
Well, neither was iPad, but as the video I linked to in my earlier message showed, it does a very acceptable job of tracking the movement of the stylus I have. If it's a hardware limitation of the Acer sensor versus the iPad sensor, I can live with that; I didn't buy the Acer for pen use, and I would have bought a different device if that were what I needed. It could occasionally come in handy, though, hence my question as to whether the issue is specific to Acer or whether all Windows 8 capacitive touchscreen devices are as inferior to the iPad's capabilities as mine.
Related
A capacitive touchscreen panel is coated with a material, typically indium tin oxide that conducts a continuous electrical current across the sensor. The sensor therefore exhibits a precisely controlled field of stored electrons in both the horizontal and vertical axes - it achieves capacitance. The human body is also an electrical device which has stored electrons and therefore also exhibits capacitance. When the sensor's 'normal' capacitance field (its reference state) is altered by another capacitance field, i.e., someone's finger, electronic circuits located at each corner of the panel measure the resultant 'distortion' in the sine wave characteristics of the reference field and sends the information about the event to the controller for mathematical processing. Capacitive sensors can either be touched with a bare finger or with a conductive device being held by a bare hand. Capacitive touchscreens are not affected by outside elements and have high clarity. The Apple iPhone is an example of a product that uses capacitance touchscreen technology: the iPhone is further capable of multi-touch sensing.
Capacitive sensors work based on proximity, and do not have to be directly touched to be triggered. In most cases, direct contact to a conductive metal surface does not occur and the conductive sensor is separated from the user's body by an insulating glass or plastic layer. Devices with capacitive buttons intended to be touched by a finger can often be triggered by quickly waving the palm of the hand close to the surface without touching.
The HTC/T-Mobile G1/Dream is also equipped with a capacitive touch screen.
is the Xperia X1 also equipped with Capacitive touch screen? because i noticed its not as sensitive as iphone
Without opening up the phone, there are several ways to find out if a phone uses a capacitive or resistive (i.e. pressure-sensitive) screen.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
2. Can the screen be operated by a non-conductive object i.e. a toothpick?
If so, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
3. Does the device come with a stylus/"plectrum" and does it require screen calibration?
If it does, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
No mass-market WM device to date has a capacitive touchscreen, including the X1. The first post of this thread will help you understand why: http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389
Nocturnal310 said:
is the Xperia X1 also equipped with Capacitive touch screen? because i noticed its not as sensitive as iphone
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Click to collapse
My Xperia is more sensitive than an iPhone. Granted I did some tweaking, but still.
No, Xperia is like the rest of our phones has resistive screen. It can be very sensitive, but stylus will be your main indication. I have LG Prada that has capacitive screen and LG Viewty that has a resistive one.
enigma1nz said:
No, Xperia is like the rest of our phones has resistive screen. It can be very sensitive, but stylus will be your main indication. I have LG Prada that has capacitive screen and LG Viewty that has a resistive one.
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Click to collapse
No? So, you have spied on me using my phone and know that it is not more sensitive? Pffft...
iphone rockz!
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
jesse_g said:
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be sorry, because you are wrong. Do your research better and come back to apologize.
sorry but i have the same idea...... i think iPhone is more sensitive than xperia
Do capacititve screens have a separation issue like some of the HTC resistive screens have?
Where the layers of a resistive screen including the digitizer start to separate causing a rectangular shape in the center that looks like oil on water.
Has happened to me and many others where the screen eventually has a complete failure.
I do know that the capacitive screens on the iPhone are prone to breakage due to the fact that it has a glass surface.
The resistive screen of the Diamond is less prone to breakage because it has a plastic type film on the surface.
Btw, my screen is pretty sensitive, whether using the stylus or touch.
You can tweak your resistiv screen by allign screen.
If you dont press the screen and move little circles between the arrow you can make screen more sensitiv
Sorry for my english cause i am german
Black93300ZX said:
A capacitive touchscreen panel is coated with a material, typically indium tin oxide that conducts a continuous electrical current across the sensor. The sensor therefore exhibits a precisely controlled field of stored electrons in both the horizontal and vertical axes - it achieves capacitance. The human body is also an electrical device which has stored electrons and therefore also exhibits capacitance. When the sensor's 'normal' capacitance field (its reference state) is altered by another capacitance field, i.e., someone's finger, electronic circuits located at each corner of the panel measure the resultant 'distortion' in the sine wave characteristics of the reference field and sends the information about the event to the controller for mathematical processing. Capacitive sensors can either be touched with a bare finger or with a conductive device being held by a bare hand. Capacitive touchscreens are not affected by outside elements and have high clarity. The Apple iPhone is an example of a product that uses capacitance touchscreen technology: the iPhone is further capable of multi-touch sensing.
Capacitive sensors work based on proximity, and do not have to be directly touched to be triggered. In most cases, direct contact to a conductive metal surface does not occur and the conductive sensor is separated from the user's body by an insulating glass or plastic layer. Devices with capacitive buttons intended to be touched by a finger can often be triggered by quickly waving the palm of the hand close to the surface without touching.
The HTC/T-Mobile G1/Dream is also equipped with a capacitive touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting... I didn't know that
jesse_g said:
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
darren shan said:
sorry but i have the same idea...... i think iPhone is more sensitive than xperia
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Click to collapse
Hey guys there is a cab called iTouch for blackstone and it tweaks the resistance to ultra-sensitive, works like a charm. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469865 , try it.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
Not necessarily true. The Nexus One has a capacitive screen and also has the dots...
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Multi-touch
So.. I guess I'm going to show my ignorance, but here is my question.
There are several posts on several sites talking about how you can't do multi-touch unless you have a capacitive screen. Then I go to Pandawill and look at the G10. It says it's a resistive screen but there are videos of it doing pinch-to-zoom.
Can someone help me understand how multi-touch relates to the screen type?
Sorry if i'm too much of a n00b
Sorry to add fuel to fire but a capacitive screen will always be more sensitive (speaking purely about the physics of it) than a resisitive screen.
Why?
Capacitive screens rely on charge and comparative charge of two bodies. In some instances, capacitive screens can work without the finger actually touching the screen.
Resistive screens rely on a minute deflection from contact to connect two conductive layers. You can touch a resistive screen lightly enough to not result in a UI interaction. Resisitve screens can be tweaked to work at a very high sensitivity but still not as sensitive as a capacitive screen.
Go ahead, compare two phones with opposing screen tech side by side. I thought nothing could be as responsive as my Topaz till I bought a Nexus, then Desire (which have other issues btw! )
Sorry but thats the blunt science behind it. Bear in mind the perception of responsiveness to touch can very well depend on the quality/smoothness of the software written or the user interface.
Source:
HTC Touch Diamond 2 vs. HTC Desire
Source 2:
My university degree.
Sorry for the double post but to answer your question,
Yes resistive screens can be used to provide multi touch support. Where this support isnt built into the drivers for the digitizer, its a lot harder. Bear in mind most older phones were launched before the mainstream advent of multi touch. Thus no drivers...only brilliant minds at XDA
However, using a resisitve touch screen to provide multi touch has some serious drawbacks, mainly on smaller screens.
I hate to break it to you but the reason behind this is actually the size of your "pinch" fingers with respect to screen size.
Multi touch on a small resistive screen cause deflection at multiple points on the digitizer but due to the reliance on deflection, the software will inevitably struggle to understand what sort of multitouch gesture you're trying to do! Your fingers with relation to screen size are simply too big!
When you have a bigger screen or a well designed digitizer + software, it can determine positions of multiple points much more accurately, thus allowing multi-touch.
eulalie said:
So.. I guess I'm going to show my ignorance, but here is my question.
There are several posts on several sites talking about how you can't do multi-touch unless you have a capacitive screen. Then I go to Pandawill and look at the G10. It says it's a resistive screen but there are videos of it doing pinch-to-zoom.
Can someone help me understand how multi-touch relates to the screen type?
Sorry if i'm too much of a n00b
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ozy944 said:
Sorry for the double post but to answer your question,
Yes resistive screens can be used to provide multi touch support. Where this support isnt built into the drivers for the digitizer, its a lot harder. Bear in mind most older phones were launched before the mainstream advent of multi touch. Thus no drivers...only brilliant minds at XDA
However, using a resisitve touch screen to provide multi touch has some serious drawbacks, mainly on smaller screens.
I hate to break it to you but the reason behind this is actually the size of your "pinch" fingers with respect to screen size.
Multi touch on a small resistive screen cause deflection at multiple points on the digitizer but due to the reliance on deflection, the software will inevitably struggle to understand what sort of multitouch gesture you're trying to do! Your fingers with relation to screen size are simply too big!
When you have a bigger screen or a well designed digitizer + software, it can determine positions of multiple points much more accurately, thus allowing multi-touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right.. I get that pinch is tougher on a small screen thats less sensative. The question was posed because there isn't a, what i consider to be cheap (in the 250$ or less range), 10 in capacative android tablet on the market.
If i venture in the the flatpad/apad/epad world... is it the case that it is impossible for that type of screen to do multi-touch? From your response I'm hearing that it IS possible to do multi-touch on a flatpad.. given that there are drivers supporting it. I'd love to have a capacative screen but from what i've seen online, they're going to be twice the cost or more.
eulalie said:
Right.. I get that pinch is tougher on a small screen thats less sensative. The question was posed because there isn't a, what i consider to be cheap (in the 250$ or less range), 10 in capacative android tablet on the market.
If i venture in the the flatpad/apad/epad world... is it the case that it is impossible for that type of screen to do multi-touch? From your response I'm hearing that it IS possible to do multi-touch on a flatpad.. given that there are drivers supporting it. I'd love to have a capacative screen but from what i've seen online, they're going to be twice the cost or more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A dilemma huh? To be brutally honest, most budget oriented tablets are simply that: budget oriented. A lot of them (im trying not to generalize) and Ive tried a fair few are poorly implemented tablets and more trouble than they are worth. Slow, laggy, bad battery life. You'll have enough issues to simply forget the lack of multi touch.
If I was after a tablet, hard as it may be, Id wait till some big players launch a proper device...that'll lead to better adoption and less half baked tablets that are more tech demo than retail product.
Bear in mind the lack of android market access on almost all of these tablets. Due to their generic nature, dev work is also a no-go. Everybody and their friends and family have a device out with a costomised, baked os that its not even funny!
Id check out the galaxy tablet from samsung or wait for it to make some waves and bring forth better implemented copycat products
yodafone said:
Without opening up the phone, there are several ways to find out if a phone uses a capacitive or resistive (i.e. pressure-sensitive) screen.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
2. Can the screen be operated by a non-conductive object i.e. a toothpick?
If so, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
3. Does the device come with a stylus/"plectrum" and does it require screen calibration?
If it does, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
No mass-market WM device to date has a capacitive touchscreen, including the X1. The first post of this thread will help you understand why: http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC HD2 is a capacitive touch-screen phone, was mass marketed on WM and has the dots (not horizontally but diagonally). Dont talk about it if you dont know about it.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/htc-hd2-first-windows-mobile-with-capacitive-touchscreen-49303837/
Hey guys, so I tested the evo 4g, which is supposed to have the same Atmel maxtouch multitouch sensor and find that it has significant input lag (tested with multitouch visualizer) basically the dot which signifies where the input coordinates are lags about 1/2 second to 1 second behind the movements of my fingers, I was wondering if anyone with an incredible could test it on theirs and so maybe shed some light onto whether it was a software issue or a hardware issue with the maxtouch. thanks!
Dorick said:
Hey guys, so I tested the evo 4g, which is supposed to have the same Atmel maxtouch multitouch sensor and find that it has significant input lag (tested with multitouch visualizer) basically the dot which signifies where the input coordinates are lags about 1/2 second to 1 second behind the movements of my fingers, I was wondering if anyone with an incredible could test it on theirs and so maybe shed some light onto whether it was a software issue or a hardware issue with the maxtouch. thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Individual Touch, Single Finger: Very responsive. No lag (estimate <20ms). Can successfully tap many times/second with no drop-outs.
Individual Touch, Alternating Fingers: Comfortably responsive. No lag as long as presses are distinct, as if with a single finger. If there is a slight overlap in the alternating touches, often only one point will be detected. You can see this by rapidly tapping back and forth between two fingers on the screen -- an occasional touch is missed (you have to be very fast) -- likely because the duration of the overlap does not seem long enough for a multi-touch detection (see below).
Multiple Touch: If fingers are in motion (swiping, pinching, etc.) when contact is made with the screen, then both points will be detected very quickly (estimate <150ms) and subsequently tracked very well as they continue to move. There is, for the most part, no detectable lag for me in tracking the locations of two fingers moving about. If you really go nuts moving them about the screen, then the multi-touch detection will occasionally 'stutter' for a split-second here and there, but nothing like the 1/2s to 1s you describe. If fingers are stationary when the screen is touched, not in motion, then it seems to take much longer for the multi-touch to be detected (estimate >500ms), and even then perhaps it is detecting a slight movement in one of the points. Is a tiny bit of motion perhaps required for the multi-touch detection to even work? I don't know enough about the technology to answer that one.
Overall: Excellent real-world responsiveness (apart from a separate, and conditional, grounding issue some of us have experienced). The only situation I could see someone having trouble with is if they are a lighting fast typist with the on-screen keyboard. If you type fast enough to overlap some of your key presses, than you will probably notice some missed letters here and there, and a few scattered reports seem to bear this out. I am not that fast, and I find the sensor on the Incredible to be a huge improvement over any other smart phone I have ever used.
Hope that helped. Cheers!
Thanks alot for your detailed analysis! Seems like its a software issue on the evo then I suppose.
in froyo update i think they will fix that
both of them does not have the max touch technology (you cannot use nither fingre nails nor stylus ) and it has the same matrix pattern in all htc devices screen ,so what
hoss_n2 said:
both of them does not have the max touch technology (you cannot use nither fingre nails nor stylus ) and it has the same matrix pattern in all htc devices screen ,so what
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that Atmel makes the claim that the MaxTouch sensor family works with fingernails, gloves, or a plain stylus, and that we clearly cannot use those things on the Incredible, but rest assured, we have a MaxTouch sensor all the same.
See attached cropped picture of a partially disassembled Incredible, look towards the bottom-center for a chip marked Atmel MXT224. Specifications for the MXT224 are a little different from the overall MaxTouch family description, and they do *not* include mention of support for fingernails, gloves, or plain stylus, while it does specifically reference a 'conductive' stylus.
askwhy said:
I realize that Atmel makes the claim that the MaxTouch sensor family works with fingernails, gloves, or a plain stylus, and that we clearly cannot use those things on the Incredible, but rest assured, we have a MaxTouch sensor all the same.
See attached cropped picture of a partially disassembled Incredible, look towards the bottom-center for a chip marked Atmel MXT224. Specifications for the MXT224 are a little different from the overall MaxTouch family description, and they do *not* include mention of support for fingernails, gloves, or plain stylus, while it does specifically reference a 'conductive' stylus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is written it only supports two fingres not more
wow this is really confusing, great find on the chip number, so on the specifications it mentions one touch or two touch support.
BUT it is listed under unlimited touch on this page
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/devices_v2.asp?family_id=701
what gives?
hey guys
ive noticed that a thew of you are having issues with the touchscreen,particularly when running recent roms
now ive been having a look and have come up with an idea to resolve this problem,first we have to understand the screen,our lovely HD2 has a multi touch TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors 480 x 800 pixels, 4.3 inches WVGA
now about multi touch capacitive touch screen from wiki as bellow:
Multi-touch has been implemented in several different ways, depending on the size and type of interface. Both touchtables and touch walls project an image through acrylic or glass, and then back-light the image with LEDs. When a finger or an object touches the surface, causing the light to scatter, the reflection is caught with sensors or cameras that send the data to software which dictates response to the touch, depending on the type of reflection measured. Touch surfaces can also be made pressure-sensitive by the addition of a pressure-sensitive coating that flexes differently depending on how firmly it is pressed, altering the reflection.[2] Handheld technologies use a panel that carries an electrical charge. When a finger touches the screen, the touch disrupts the panel's electrical field. The disruption is registered and sent to the software, which then initiates a response to the gesture.
if you get what that means then we'll move on.Now then most of the builds weve been using are designed for either AMOLED/LCD capacitive touchscreen at16M colors so in basic terms when we touch our screens it sends a signal to the software saying youve touched only the software thinks were all using 16M capacitive touchscreen when in actual fact were only using 65k capacitive touchscreens thus eventually causing lack of responce,so whats the solution i hear you cry,well we have to look at our beloved friend the evo 4G wich has the same screen TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors so we have use the files/script/value or whatever devs use to controll the display and touchscreen from the 4g and use them in HD2 android builds this way we shouldnt be able to wear out our touchscreens in android builds,something for Devs to do and we already have Evo ports,probably explains why no one or heard of has had this problem when running Evo builds.Does that Make sence
The LCD screen and the digitizer are 2 separate components. The touchscreen itself has nothing to do with colors.
Seriously when can we just stop the bullshiting about stuff YOU clearly dont understand ?
The last few weeks there has been a huge spike in stupid topics from ppl trying to convince other ppl to also be stupid.
shuntje said:
Seriously when can we just stop the bullshiting about stuff clearly dont understand ?
The last few weeks there has been a huge spike in stupid topics from ppl trying to convince other ppl to also be stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best. Post. Ever.
IphoneKiller125 said:
hey guys
ive noticed that a thew of you are having issues with the touchscreen,particularly when running recent roms
now ive been having a look and have come up with an idea to resolve this problem,first we have to understand the screen,our lovely HD2 has a multi touch TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors 480 x 800 pixels, 4.3 inches WVGA
now about multi touch capacitive touch screen from wiki as bellow:
Multi-touch has been implemented in several different ways, depending on the size and type of interface. Both touchtables and touch walls project an image through acrylic or glass, and then back-light the image with LEDs. When a finger or an object touches the surface, causing the light to scatter, the reflection is caught with sensors or cameras that send the data to software which dictates response to the touch, depending on the type of reflection measured. Touch surfaces can also be made pressure-sensitive by the addition of a pressure-sensitive coating that flexes differently depending on how firmly it is pressed, altering the reflection.[2] Handheld technologies use a panel that carries an electrical charge. When a finger touches the screen, the touch disrupts the panel's electrical field. The disruption is registered and sent to the software, which then initiates a response to the gesture.
if you get what that means then we'll move on.Now then most of the builds weve been using are designed for either AMOLED/LCD capacitive touchscreen at16M colors so in basic terms when we touch our screens it sends a signal to the software saying youve touched only the software thinks were all using 16M capacitive touchscreen when in actual fact were only using 65k capacitive touchscreens thus eventually causing lack of responce,so whats the solution i hear you cry,well we have to look at our beloved friend the evo 4G wich has the same screen TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors so we have use the files/script/value or whatever devs use to controll the display and touchscreen from the 4g and use them in HD2 android builds this way we shouldnt be able to wear out our touchscreens in android builds,something for Devs to do and we already have Evo ports,probably explains why no one or heard of has had this problem when running Evo builds.Does that Make sence
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Click to collapse
lol worst research ever
I'm wondering what was your reasearch methode ?
Becouse all you found was information about the screen and nothing about the actual module for the toutch screen.
shuntje said:
I'm wondering what was your reasearch methode ?
Becouse all you found was information about the screen and nothing about the actual module for the toutch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i assumed you guys knew that the HD2 has an LCM module wich is shown here
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
it combines the digitizer,backlight,Lcd so it conects to the main board from the same port for easer installation.Now the point im trying to get across is that weve been using builds that use AMOLED,AMOLED displays have an integrated touch function.AMOLED screens that htc use are made by Samsung wich has placed a touch-sensor (on-cell) over the display. The thickness of the touch sensor is very thin and this allows the screen to provide better images and to have great visibility even in direct sunlight and are very responsive to touch,Now becouse we havnt got these screens the builds,in particular with desire builds it is making our screens work overtime and this can create dead spots or areas of the screen that do not respond accurately to touch wich can be caused by a conflict in the software/firmware or it could be that the LCM causes problems in the software wich then makes it unresponsive http://www.htcphones.net/htc-hd2-problems-with-touchscreen/ or then again it could be this http://wmpoweruser.com/strange-htc-hd2-touch-screen-behaviour-is-your-device-affected/ there are several possibillty,unfortunently each phone is unique
I have trouble deciding whether you are a troll or a retard.
Neither of those possibilities are very attractive though.
The only problem HD2 has with multitouch is that It cant handle two inputs in the same vertical line. you will see if you test it with Multitouch visibility test. Also in air hockey 2 player mode you will see the same effect. If the two points are in the same vertical point it will jump.
Builds and kernels are indeed different... a build for an amoled phone can work with no problem on our hd2
It doesn't matter; we have our own special panel and ts drivers in the kernel. (board-htcleo-ts.c and board-htcleo-panel.c)
Damm Straight Best Post Ever!
This is simply THE most hilarious post I've read on here!!
I've never seen a post with such bull****. Clearly the OP hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.
I am lost for words
Now that we have a THANKS button, we also need a BULL**** button, everyone with a brain who reads this thread would be frantically clicking away on it!!
..........
IphoneKiller125 said:
Well i assumed you guys knew that the HD2 has an LCM module wich is shown here
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
it combines the digitizer,backlight,Lcd so it conects to the main board from the same port for easer installation.Now the point im trying to get across is that weve been using builds that use AMOLED,AMOLED displays have an integrated touch function.AMOLED screens that htc use are made by Samsung wich has placed a touch-sensor (on-cell) over the display. The thickness of the touch sensor is very thin and this allows the screen to provide better images and to have great visibility even in direct sunlight and are very responsive to touch,Now becouse we havnt got these screens the builds,in particular with desire builds it is making our screens work overtime and this can create dead spots or areas of the screen that do not respond accurately to touch wich can be caused by a conflict in the software/firmware or it could be that the LCM causes problems in the software wich then makes it unresponsive http://www.htcphones.net/htc-hd2-problems-with-touchscreen/ or then again it could be this http://wmpoweruser.com/strange-htc-hd2-touch-screen-behaviour-is-your-device-affected/ there are several possibillty,unfortunently each phone is unique
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude ok break down of how i undertand the phone works between kernel and hardware
The kernel accesses a chip with a unified and commonly accepted standard of IO. Then the hardware specific chip (the Toutch screen controller or what not) makes this into readeble data and vise versa. This way there is NO WAY IN HELL it can break the actual hardware. If your screen is breaking down bad luck i had a HD2 with a defect TS in the first week. A mate of mine had one within the first ****ing day. Its random stop feeding yourself with bull**** and go back to the tinfoil hat forums.
deffo has the lol factor
shuntje said:
Dude ok break down of how i undertand the phone works between kernal and hardware
The kernal accesses a chip with a unified and commonly accepted standard of IO. Then the hardware specific chip (the Toutch screen controller or what not) makes this into readeble data and vise versa. This way there is NO WAY IN HELL it can break the actual hardware. If your screen is breaking down bad luck i had a HD2 with a defect TS in the first week. A mate of mine had one within the first ****ing day. Its random stop feeding yourself with bull**** and go back to the tinfoil hat forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually since the kernel (please, not kernal) interacts with the hardware directly it can damage it permanently. For example, supply too much voltage to the cpu and you fry it, use the touchscreen with incorrect calibration settings for extended periods of time and you can also damage it. However, there are no cases of the Leo Android TS driver breaking touchscreens.
Where are the naked pics? Someone said there were naked pics in this thread.
OHHHHH another "whine, Android, whine, messed up, whine, my touchscreen, whine" thread.
...dissappointingly clicks the back button
I have some cellophane I stole from a cigarette packet. I was wondering, as the size is similar to my HD2, are they compatible models? I was thinking of replacing the touchscreen with it.
Sorry to take this thread in a new direction but it seemed the appropriate place to ask.
harpss1ngh said:
Now that we have a THANKS button, we also need a BULL**** button...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Made my day
Hello everyone,
I have a query that perhaps those in the know could offer me some guidance on. Firstly, among the different flavors of 10.1'' Android tablets how similar are the innards both in hardware and placement? I ask this because the color depth of my Acer Iconia is horrible in my opinion...especially sitting next to my wife's Asus Transformer. The colors are very washed out and the banding that occurs on gradients are not ignorable. I've seen it cited in a couple of threads with the general consensus being that Acer can do nothing on the software side to improve this saturation short sight. I have replaced many laptop screens and bezel assemblies, as well as repaired numerous bezels. I am aware that due to the relatively recent release of these tablets, replacement parts will be hard to find, but I want to do it regardless. According to Acer, their screen has more capacitive registers and I assume that there is a layer over the actual screen itself with the registers, but I'd love to perfect this beauty with an IPS screen. Also, I pulled it apart today and turned the microphone toward the screen panel side and finally my friends on Skype can hear me... So how possible is this upgrade, and are there any tips for this undertaking? Thanks in advance for your help and/or consideration.
So what do you guys think about the mod idea? Would it be worth it....or even possible?
I think it's definitely a great idea. I'm just not experienced with this level of hardware modding so have no input on it's feasibility or whether it would even work without some software hacking as well.
If you manage it, definitely post your results.
well well you need to find a LCD plate who is compatible (voltage and data stream) with the LED LCD AUO B101EW05 inside our tablet: http://auo.com/?sn=149&lang=en-US&c=34&n=146
the only things weird
is
Response Time (ms) 8 from AUO
Response Time (ms) 25 from Acer
so far I would like see a 5ms screen rather than a 16M color
Would be very cool if you managed to, and if so ill repeat what was said above, please post your results and if successful please make a step by step guide
Sharing is caring
sanaell said:
well well you need to find a LCD plate who is compatible (voltage and data stream) with the LED LCD AUO B101EW05 inside our tablet: http://auo.com/?sn=149&lang=en-US&c=34&n=146
the only things weird
is
Response Time (ms) 8 from AUO
Response Time (ms) 25 from Acer
so far I would like see a 5ms screen rather than a 16M color
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to meet somewhere in the middle maybe 5-12ms response and 16m colors. I'll have to wait until after market replacements become available and pray that the connections are compatible or that the PCB has generic leads to solder. Next is the software, assuming that the basic low level hardware is identical, software should be the easy part. Only time and research will tell. Does anyone have any OEM info on the Asus tf101 screen?
I've been experiencing a strange phenomenon in relation to the touchscreen on my new Nexus 7. It is essentially impossible to capture in video and difficult to accurately describe, so I apologize for any frustration in comprehending my description.
If I open the Play Store (for example) and gently flick to produce a slow automated scroll, the store page will scroll completely smoothly (aside from the usual few dropped frames as images load). However, if I place my finger on the screen and manually scroll through the page by the same amount at the same speed, it visibly stutters. The stutter produced is not absolutely horrible and some people may not even directly notice it, but it is just enough to make manual input feel sticky. On webpages filled with text where stutter will exacerbate even minor ghosting, it is particularly annoying.
The issue is present globally within the OS, although there are certain games which implement further input smoothing and seem to get rid of it. I was somewhat apprehensive about posting this thread, as it an issue which may be too subtle for many people to directly replicate (assuming I do not simply have a defective device, that is) without an exact understanding of what they are looking for and some may think I'm being "too picky".
To further clarify, I am aware that many people have had multi-touch and phantom input issues on this device, but those are not what I am referring to. I have experienced no multi-touch nor phantom input issues whatsoever.
Has anybody else encountered this issue or should I simply organize a replacement? If it is a software issue, I am perfectly willing to wait for Google to rectify it in a future update.
troy2062 said:
I've been experiencing a strange phenomenon in relation to the touchscreen on my new Nexus 7. It is essentially impossible to capture in video and difficult to accurately describe, so I apologize for any frustration in comprehending my description.
If I open the Play Store (for example) and gently flick to produce a slow automated scroll, the store page will scroll completely smoothly (aside from the usual few dropped frames as images load). However, if I place my finger on the screen and manually scroll through the page by the same amount at the same speed, it visibly stutters. The stutter produced is not absolutely horrible and some people may not even directly notice it, but it is just enough to make manual input feel sticky. On webpages filled with text where stutter will exacerbate even minor ghosting, it is particularly annoying.
The issue is present globally within the OS, although there are certain games which implement further input smoothing and seem to get rid of it. I was somewhat apprehensive about posting this thread, as it an issue which may be too subtle for many people to directly replicate (assuming I do not simply have a defective device, that is) without an exact understanding of what they are looking for and some may think I'm being "too picky".
To further clarify, I am aware that many people have had multi-touch and phantom input issues on this device, but those are not what I am referring to. I have experienced no multi-touch nor phantom input issues whatsoever.
Has anybody else encountered this issue or should I simply organize a replacement? If it is a software issue, I am perfectly willing to wait for Google to rectify it in a future update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
got the exact same issue with the two i ordered. Sometimes unlicking is a pain or drag and drop an icon to a screen. I"m waiting to get an update. If the next one is the same. i send them back
I thought this was solved in the last update.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Yup, This is the exact issue I am so frustrated with. I am really hoping this is a fixable issue..
It's a known issue.
I had the same, and fixed by applying this :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2428133
Hopefully it will be fixed in the next release.
But until then, you can use the above solution.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I had this same issue on two nexus 7 devices (one purchased, the other a replacement unit) but eventually returned both over single touch issues. The stutter was apparent especially in chrome when you pinch to zoom. Feedly was another app that would stutter as you scroll down an article. I assumed this was more of an app specific issue but I guess it may be just another touch related issue with the device.
Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk 4
AFAIK, this issue is due to the capacitive touch screen not having a very fine resolution input. It is especially noticeable on cheap tablets. The touch screen has input lines running say on a 1x1cm grid. As you draw your finger across, the line whichever is closest to your finger will register. So it will jump from one line sensing the finger to the next one, and this is then input to the software scrolling and produces a stuttering in the scrolling. You can easily try is by slowly drawing the finger up and down and watching the reaction of the page that is scrolling underneath.
To alleviate this, the screen driver can hand over from one line to the next in a smooth gradual manner but of course there will always be a scrolling rate where the effect is worse. The slower you scroll the clearer you can see it.
If lines are close to each other or you have fat fingers, this effect becomes less noticeable.
[edit] having said that, there are always apps which scroll poorly regardless of the quality of the screen.
^I thought that was the issue at first, but now im thinking its a software issue. The slower I move my finger, the less stuttery the animation. It is only when i move my finger at a medium or fast speed that it begins to stutter like this.
juried said:
AFAIK, this issue is due to the capacitive touch screen not having a very fine resolution input. It is especially noticeable on cheap tablets. The touch screen has input lines running say on a 1x1cm grid. As you draw your finger across, the line whichever is closest to your finger will register. So it will jump from one line sensing the finger to the next one, and this is then input to the software scrolling and produces a stuttering in the scrolling. You can easily try is by slowly drawing the finger up and down and watching the reaction of the page that is scrolling underneath.
To alleviate this, the screen driver can hand over from one line to the next in a smooth gradual manner but of course there will always be a scrolling rate where the effect is worse. The slower you scroll the clearer you can see it.
If lines are close to each other or you have fat fingers, this effect becomes less noticeable.
[edit] having said that, there are always apps which scroll poorly regardless of the quality of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would be a perfectly plausible explanation, however the amount of stutter doesn't really seem to vary at all, regardless of the speed at which I drag.
juried said:
AFAIK, this issue is due to the capacitive touch screen not having a very fine resolution input. It is especially noticeable on cheap tablets. The touch screen has input lines running say on a 1x1cm grid. As you draw your finger across, the line whichever is closest to your finger will register. So it will jump from one line sensing the finger to the next one, and this is then input to the software scrolling and produces a stuttering in the scrolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? Try an app like 'Yet Another MultiTouch Test' that displays touch coordinates. The touchscreen certainly has single-pixel accuracy/resolution (a pixel is 0.08mm wide).
tni.andro said:
Huh? Try an app like 'Yet Another MultiTouch Test' that displays touch coordinates. The touchscreen certainly has single-pixel accuracy/resolution (a pixel is 0.08mm wide).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has high resolution (different to accuracy btw) due to the driver software working out where the touch is by using all the pick-up dots that show a capacitive response. But in the Nexus you can actually see the capacitive pick-up dots if you hold it in the sun and get the reflection just right, and they are 5mm apart.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
I also have the same stuttering issue, mostly in Chrome browser, when scrolling through some websites. Sometimes the tablet will respond to a scrolling glide but sometimes it will not, this is very annoying, another issue that I have is the random "touch - stuck" problem, where a single touch will register at one spot for 1-2 seconds, and you have to touch that spot again in order to un-stuck it, my Nexus 7 FHD has no problem at all when doing the YAMMT app test, there seems to be a lot of bugs in this tablet, I think Asus just sucks in general, my Samsung Nexus 10 has no problem whatsoever...
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
juried said:
It has high resolution (different to accuracy btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What point are you trying to make? The resolution is slightly higher than the display resolution and whatever internal accuracy the touch screen controller has, it is sufficient for that.
due to the driver software working out where the touch is by using all the pick-up dots that show a capacitive response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Elan touch screen controller has it's own microcontroller that is running some proprietary firmware blob that does all the magic. That firmware reports the position. The OS driver is very dumb and just passes that on.
juried said:
The touch screen has input lines running say on a 1x1cm grid. As you draw your finger across, the line whichever is closest to your finger will register. So it will jump from one line sensing the finger to the next one, and this is then input to the software scrolling and produces a stuttering in the scrolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But in the Nexus you can actually see the capacitive pick-up dots if you hold it in the sun and get the reflection just right, and they are 5mm apart.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's simply not how things work. The controller measures capacitance at adjacent grid points and determines an interpolated position based on the capacitance measurements. There is no jumping from line to line, the position is smoothly determined using the interpolation.
There are touch screens that only have 2 pairs of grid lines (one pair for X coordinates, one pair for Y coordinates) and rely exclusively on interpolation to determine the position (but they can't support multi-touch).