hey guys
ive noticed that a thew of you are having issues with the touchscreen,particularly when running recent roms
now ive been having a look and have come up with an idea to resolve this problem,first we have to understand the screen,our lovely HD2 has a multi touch TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors 480 x 800 pixels, 4.3 inches WVGA
now about multi touch capacitive touch screen from wiki as bellow:
Multi-touch has been implemented in several different ways, depending on the size and type of interface. Both touchtables and touch walls project an image through acrylic or glass, and then back-light the image with LEDs. When a finger or an object touches the surface, causing the light to scatter, the reflection is caught with sensors or cameras that send the data to software which dictates response to the touch, depending on the type of reflection measured. Touch surfaces can also be made pressure-sensitive by the addition of a pressure-sensitive coating that flexes differently depending on how firmly it is pressed, altering the reflection.[2] Handheld technologies use a panel that carries an electrical charge. When a finger touches the screen, the touch disrupts the panel's electrical field. The disruption is registered and sent to the software, which then initiates a response to the gesture.
if you get what that means then we'll move on.Now then most of the builds weve been using are designed for either AMOLED/LCD capacitive touchscreen at16M colors so in basic terms when we touch our screens it sends a signal to the software saying youve touched only the software thinks were all using 16M capacitive touchscreen when in actual fact were only using 65k capacitive touchscreens thus eventually causing lack of responce,so whats the solution i hear you cry,well we have to look at our beloved friend the evo 4G wich has the same screen TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors so we have use the files/script/value or whatever devs use to controll the display and touchscreen from the 4g and use them in HD2 android builds this way we shouldnt be able to wear out our touchscreens in android builds,something for Devs to do and we already have Evo ports,probably explains why no one or heard of has had this problem when running Evo builds.Does that Make sence
The LCD screen and the digitizer are 2 separate components. The touchscreen itself has nothing to do with colors.
Seriously when can we just stop the bullshiting about stuff YOU clearly dont understand ?
The last few weeks there has been a huge spike in stupid topics from ppl trying to convince other ppl to also be stupid.
shuntje said:
Seriously when can we just stop the bullshiting about stuff clearly dont understand ?
The last few weeks there has been a huge spike in stupid topics from ppl trying to convince other ppl to also be stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best. Post. Ever.
IphoneKiller125 said:
hey guys
ive noticed that a thew of you are having issues with the touchscreen,particularly when running recent roms
now ive been having a look and have come up with an idea to resolve this problem,first we have to understand the screen,our lovely HD2 has a multi touch TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors 480 x 800 pixels, 4.3 inches WVGA
now about multi touch capacitive touch screen from wiki as bellow:
Multi-touch has been implemented in several different ways, depending on the size and type of interface. Both touchtables and touch walls project an image through acrylic or glass, and then back-light the image with LEDs. When a finger or an object touches the surface, causing the light to scatter, the reflection is caught with sensors or cameras that send the data to software which dictates response to the touch, depending on the type of reflection measured. Touch surfaces can also be made pressure-sensitive by the addition of a pressure-sensitive coating that flexes differently depending on how firmly it is pressed, altering the reflection.[2] Handheld technologies use a panel that carries an electrical charge. When a finger touches the screen, the touch disrupts the panel's electrical field. The disruption is registered and sent to the software, which then initiates a response to the gesture.
if you get what that means then we'll move on.Now then most of the builds weve been using are designed for either AMOLED/LCD capacitive touchscreen at16M colors so in basic terms when we touch our screens it sends a signal to the software saying youve touched only the software thinks were all using 16M capacitive touchscreen when in actual fact were only using 65k capacitive touchscreens thus eventually causing lack of responce,so whats the solution i hear you cry,well we have to look at our beloved friend the evo 4G wich has the same screen TFT capacitive touchscreen, 65K colors so we have use the files/script/value or whatever devs use to controll the display and touchscreen from the 4g and use them in HD2 android builds this way we shouldnt be able to wear out our touchscreens in android builds,something for Devs to do and we already have Evo ports,probably explains why no one or heard of has had this problem when running Evo builds.Does that Make sence
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol worst research ever
I'm wondering what was your reasearch methode ?
Becouse all you found was information about the screen and nothing about the actual module for the toutch screen.
shuntje said:
I'm wondering what was your reasearch methode ?
Becouse all you found was information about the screen and nothing about the actual module for the toutch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i assumed you guys knew that the HD2 has an LCM module wich is shown here
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
it combines the digitizer,backlight,Lcd so it conects to the main board from the same port for easer installation.Now the point im trying to get across is that weve been using builds that use AMOLED,AMOLED displays have an integrated touch function.AMOLED screens that htc use are made by Samsung wich has placed a touch-sensor (on-cell) over the display. The thickness of the touch sensor is very thin and this allows the screen to provide better images and to have great visibility even in direct sunlight and are very responsive to touch,Now becouse we havnt got these screens the builds,in particular with desire builds it is making our screens work overtime and this can create dead spots or areas of the screen that do not respond accurately to touch wich can be caused by a conflict in the software/firmware or it could be that the LCM causes problems in the software wich then makes it unresponsive http://www.htcphones.net/htc-hd2-problems-with-touchscreen/ or then again it could be this http://wmpoweruser.com/strange-htc-hd2-touch-screen-behaviour-is-your-device-affected/ there are several possibillty,unfortunently each phone is unique
I have trouble deciding whether you are a troll or a retard.
Neither of those possibilities are very attractive though.
The only problem HD2 has with multitouch is that It cant handle two inputs in the same vertical line. you will see if you test it with Multitouch visibility test. Also in air hockey 2 player mode you will see the same effect. If the two points are in the same vertical point it will jump.
Builds and kernels are indeed different... a build for an amoled phone can work with no problem on our hd2
It doesn't matter; we have our own special panel and ts drivers in the kernel. (board-htcleo-ts.c and board-htcleo-panel.c)
Damm Straight Best Post Ever!
This is simply THE most hilarious post I've read on here!!
I've never seen a post with such bull****. Clearly the OP hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.
I am lost for words
Now that we have a THANKS button, we also need a BULL**** button, everyone with a brain who reads this thread would be frantically clicking away on it!!
..........
IphoneKiller125 said:
Well i assumed you guys knew that the HD2 has an LCM module wich is shown here
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
it combines the digitizer,backlight,Lcd so it conects to the main board from the same port for easer installation.Now the point im trying to get across is that weve been using builds that use AMOLED,AMOLED displays have an integrated touch function.AMOLED screens that htc use are made by Samsung wich has placed a touch-sensor (on-cell) over the display. The thickness of the touch sensor is very thin and this allows the screen to provide better images and to have great visibility even in direct sunlight and are very responsive to touch,Now becouse we havnt got these screens the builds,in particular with desire builds it is making our screens work overtime and this can create dead spots or areas of the screen that do not respond accurately to touch wich can be caused by a conflict in the software/firmware or it could be that the LCM causes problems in the software wich then makes it unresponsive http://www.htcphones.net/htc-hd2-problems-with-touchscreen/ or then again it could be this http://wmpoweruser.com/strange-htc-hd2-touch-screen-behaviour-is-your-device-affected/ there are several possibillty,unfortunently each phone is unique
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude ok break down of how i undertand the phone works between kernel and hardware
The kernel accesses a chip with a unified and commonly accepted standard of IO. Then the hardware specific chip (the Toutch screen controller or what not) makes this into readeble data and vise versa. This way there is NO WAY IN HELL it can break the actual hardware. If your screen is breaking down bad luck i had a HD2 with a defect TS in the first week. A mate of mine had one within the first ****ing day. Its random stop feeding yourself with bull**** and go back to the tinfoil hat forums.
deffo has the lol factor
shuntje said:
Dude ok break down of how i undertand the phone works between kernal and hardware
The kernal accesses a chip with a unified and commonly accepted standard of IO. Then the hardware specific chip (the Toutch screen controller or what not) makes this into readeble data and vise versa. This way there is NO WAY IN HELL it can break the actual hardware. If your screen is breaking down bad luck i had a HD2 with a defect TS in the first week. A mate of mine had one within the first ****ing day. Its random stop feeding yourself with bull**** and go back to the tinfoil hat forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually since the kernel (please, not kernal) interacts with the hardware directly it can damage it permanently. For example, supply too much voltage to the cpu and you fry it, use the touchscreen with incorrect calibration settings for extended periods of time and you can also damage it. However, there are no cases of the Leo Android TS driver breaking touchscreens.
Where are the naked pics? Someone said there were naked pics in this thread.
OHHHHH another "whine, Android, whine, messed up, whine, my touchscreen, whine" thread.
...dissappointingly clicks the back button
I have some cellophane I stole from a cigarette packet. I was wondering, as the size is similar to my HD2, are they compatible models? I was thinking of replacing the touchscreen with it.
Sorry to take this thread in a new direction but it seemed the appropriate place to ask.
harpss1ngh said:
Now that we have a THANKS button, we also need a BULL**** button...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Made my day
Related
A capacitive touchscreen panel is coated with a material, typically indium tin oxide that conducts a continuous electrical current across the sensor. The sensor therefore exhibits a precisely controlled field of stored electrons in both the horizontal and vertical axes - it achieves capacitance. The human body is also an electrical device which has stored electrons and therefore also exhibits capacitance. When the sensor's 'normal' capacitance field (its reference state) is altered by another capacitance field, i.e., someone's finger, electronic circuits located at each corner of the panel measure the resultant 'distortion' in the sine wave characteristics of the reference field and sends the information about the event to the controller for mathematical processing. Capacitive sensors can either be touched with a bare finger or with a conductive device being held by a bare hand. Capacitive touchscreens are not affected by outside elements and have high clarity. The Apple iPhone is an example of a product that uses capacitance touchscreen technology: the iPhone is further capable of multi-touch sensing.
Capacitive sensors work based on proximity, and do not have to be directly touched to be triggered. In most cases, direct contact to a conductive metal surface does not occur and the conductive sensor is separated from the user's body by an insulating glass or plastic layer. Devices with capacitive buttons intended to be touched by a finger can often be triggered by quickly waving the palm of the hand close to the surface without touching.
The HTC/T-Mobile G1/Dream is also equipped with a capacitive touch screen.
is the Xperia X1 also equipped with Capacitive touch screen? because i noticed its not as sensitive as iphone
Without opening up the phone, there are several ways to find out if a phone uses a capacitive or resistive (i.e. pressure-sensitive) screen.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
2. Can the screen be operated by a non-conductive object i.e. a toothpick?
If so, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
3. Does the device come with a stylus/"plectrum" and does it require screen calibration?
If it does, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
No mass-market WM device to date has a capacitive touchscreen, including the X1. The first post of this thread will help you understand why: http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389
Nocturnal310 said:
is the Xperia X1 also equipped with Capacitive touch screen? because i noticed its not as sensitive as iphone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Xperia is more sensitive than an iPhone. Granted I did some tweaking, but still.
No, Xperia is like the rest of our phones has resistive screen. It can be very sensitive, but stylus will be your main indication. I have LG Prada that has capacitive screen and LG Viewty that has a resistive one.
enigma1nz said:
No, Xperia is like the rest of our phones has resistive screen. It can be very sensitive, but stylus will be your main indication. I have LG Prada that has capacitive screen and LG Viewty that has a resistive one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No? So, you have spied on me using my phone and know that it is not more sensitive? Pffft...
iphone rockz!
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
jesse_g said:
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be sorry, because you are wrong. Do your research better and come back to apologize.
sorry but i have the same idea...... i think iPhone is more sensitive than xperia
Do capacititve screens have a separation issue like some of the HTC resistive screens have?
Where the layers of a resistive screen including the digitizer start to separate causing a rectangular shape in the center that looks like oil on water.
Has happened to me and many others where the screen eventually has a complete failure.
I do know that the capacitive screens on the iPhone are prone to breakage due to the fact that it has a glass surface.
The resistive screen of the Diamond is less prone to breakage because it has a plastic type film on the surface.
Btw, my screen is pretty sensitive, whether using the stylus or touch.
You can tweak your resistiv screen by allign screen.
If you dont press the screen and move little circles between the arrow you can make screen more sensitiv
Sorry for my english cause i am german
Black93300ZX said:
A capacitive touchscreen panel is coated with a material, typically indium tin oxide that conducts a continuous electrical current across the sensor. The sensor therefore exhibits a precisely controlled field of stored electrons in both the horizontal and vertical axes - it achieves capacitance. The human body is also an electrical device which has stored electrons and therefore also exhibits capacitance. When the sensor's 'normal' capacitance field (its reference state) is altered by another capacitance field, i.e., someone's finger, electronic circuits located at each corner of the panel measure the resultant 'distortion' in the sine wave characteristics of the reference field and sends the information about the event to the controller for mathematical processing. Capacitive sensors can either be touched with a bare finger or with a conductive device being held by a bare hand. Capacitive touchscreens are not affected by outside elements and have high clarity. The Apple iPhone is an example of a product that uses capacitance touchscreen technology: the iPhone is further capable of multi-touch sensing.
Capacitive sensors work based on proximity, and do not have to be directly touched to be triggered. In most cases, direct contact to a conductive metal surface does not occur and the conductive sensor is separated from the user's body by an insulating glass or plastic layer. Devices with capacitive buttons intended to be touched by a finger can often be triggered by quickly waving the palm of the hand close to the surface without touching.
The HTC/T-Mobile G1/Dream is also equipped with a capacitive touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting... I didn't know that
jesse_g said:
im sorry but no phone is as sensitive as an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
darren shan said:
sorry but i have the same idea...... i think iPhone is more sensitive than xperia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys there is a cab called iTouch for blackstone and it tweaks the resistance to ultra-sensitive, works like a charm. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469865 , try it.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
Not necessarily true. The Nexus One has a capacitive screen and also has the dots...
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Multi-touch
So.. I guess I'm going to show my ignorance, but here is my question.
There are several posts on several sites talking about how you can't do multi-touch unless you have a capacitive screen. Then I go to Pandawill and look at the G10. It says it's a resistive screen but there are videos of it doing pinch-to-zoom.
Can someone help me understand how multi-touch relates to the screen type?
Sorry if i'm too much of a n00b
Sorry to add fuel to fire but a capacitive screen will always be more sensitive (speaking purely about the physics of it) than a resisitive screen.
Why?
Capacitive screens rely on charge and comparative charge of two bodies. In some instances, capacitive screens can work without the finger actually touching the screen.
Resistive screens rely on a minute deflection from contact to connect two conductive layers. You can touch a resistive screen lightly enough to not result in a UI interaction. Resisitve screens can be tweaked to work at a very high sensitivity but still not as sensitive as a capacitive screen.
Go ahead, compare two phones with opposing screen tech side by side. I thought nothing could be as responsive as my Topaz till I bought a Nexus, then Desire (which have other issues btw! )
Sorry but thats the blunt science behind it. Bear in mind the perception of responsiveness to touch can very well depend on the quality/smoothness of the software written or the user interface.
Source:
HTC Touch Diamond 2 vs. HTC Desire
Source 2:
My university degree.
Sorry for the double post but to answer your question,
Yes resistive screens can be used to provide multi touch support. Where this support isnt built into the drivers for the digitizer, its a lot harder. Bear in mind most older phones were launched before the mainstream advent of multi touch. Thus no drivers...only brilliant minds at XDA
However, using a resisitve touch screen to provide multi touch has some serious drawbacks, mainly on smaller screens.
I hate to break it to you but the reason behind this is actually the size of your "pinch" fingers with respect to screen size.
Multi touch on a small resistive screen cause deflection at multiple points on the digitizer but due to the reliance on deflection, the software will inevitably struggle to understand what sort of multitouch gesture you're trying to do! Your fingers with relation to screen size are simply too big!
When you have a bigger screen or a well designed digitizer + software, it can determine positions of multiple points much more accurately, thus allowing multi-touch.
eulalie said:
So.. I guess I'm going to show my ignorance, but here is my question.
There are several posts on several sites talking about how you can't do multi-touch unless you have a capacitive screen. Then I go to Pandawill and look at the G10. It says it's a resistive screen but there are videos of it doing pinch-to-zoom.
Can someone help me understand how multi-touch relates to the screen type?
Sorry if i'm too much of a n00b
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ozy944 said:
Sorry for the double post but to answer your question,
Yes resistive screens can be used to provide multi touch support. Where this support isnt built into the drivers for the digitizer, its a lot harder. Bear in mind most older phones were launched before the mainstream advent of multi touch. Thus no drivers...only brilliant minds at XDA
However, using a resisitve touch screen to provide multi touch has some serious drawbacks, mainly on smaller screens.
I hate to break it to you but the reason behind this is actually the size of your "pinch" fingers with respect to screen size.
Multi touch on a small resistive screen cause deflection at multiple points on the digitizer but due to the reliance on deflection, the software will inevitably struggle to understand what sort of multitouch gesture you're trying to do! Your fingers with relation to screen size are simply too big!
When you have a bigger screen or a well designed digitizer + software, it can determine positions of multiple points much more accurately, thus allowing multi-touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right.. I get that pinch is tougher on a small screen thats less sensative. The question was posed because there isn't a, what i consider to be cheap (in the 250$ or less range), 10 in capacative android tablet on the market.
If i venture in the the flatpad/apad/epad world... is it the case that it is impossible for that type of screen to do multi-touch? From your response I'm hearing that it IS possible to do multi-touch on a flatpad.. given that there are drivers supporting it. I'd love to have a capacative screen but from what i've seen online, they're going to be twice the cost or more.
eulalie said:
Right.. I get that pinch is tougher on a small screen thats less sensative. The question was posed because there isn't a, what i consider to be cheap (in the 250$ or less range), 10 in capacative android tablet on the market.
If i venture in the the flatpad/apad/epad world... is it the case that it is impossible for that type of screen to do multi-touch? From your response I'm hearing that it IS possible to do multi-touch on a flatpad.. given that there are drivers supporting it. I'd love to have a capacative screen but from what i've seen online, they're going to be twice the cost or more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A dilemma huh? To be brutally honest, most budget oriented tablets are simply that: budget oriented. A lot of them (im trying not to generalize) and Ive tried a fair few are poorly implemented tablets and more trouble than they are worth. Slow, laggy, bad battery life. You'll have enough issues to simply forget the lack of multi touch.
If I was after a tablet, hard as it may be, Id wait till some big players launch a proper device...that'll lead to better adoption and less half baked tablets that are more tech demo than retail product.
Bear in mind the lack of android market access on almost all of these tablets. Due to their generic nature, dev work is also a no-go. Everybody and their friends and family have a device out with a costomised, baked os that its not even funny!
Id check out the galaxy tablet from samsung or wait for it to make some waves and bring forth better implemented copycat products
yodafone said:
Without opening up the phone, there are several ways to find out if a phone uses a capacitive or resistive (i.e. pressure-sensitive) screen.
1. Look at the screen off-angle in bright light. You may be able to see a grid of dots that looks something like this and extends over the entire screen surface:
. . .
. . .
. . .
If you can, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
2. Can the screen be operated by a non-conductive object i.e. a toothpick?
If so, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
3. Does the device come with a stylus/"plectrum" and does it require screen calibration?
If it does, it's probably not a capacitive screen.
No mass-market WM device to date has a capacitive touchscreen, including the X1. The first post of this thread will help you understand why: http://discuss.pocketnow.com/showthread.php?threadid=23389
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC HD2 is a capacitive touch-screen phone, was mass marketed on WM and has the dots (not horizontally but diagonally). Dont talk about it if you dont know about it.
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/htc-hd2-first-windows-mobile-with-capacitive-touchscreen-49303837/
Ok guys, whats next for us, anyone have any hard facts about what HTC is going to replace our lovely Touch HDs with? still have quite a while left on my contract but im curious whats around the corner....
Agreed... I was thinking about HTC HERO but I dont think I can live with a screen that small
Guys,
Has anyone noticed that since the Blackstone, HTC has not made any phones with a screen that is as big as the Touch HD? (3.8 inches). I've only seen 3.6 inches so far. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Cheers.
You are correct 3.6" max: in my opinion we must wait early 2010 to see other device like HD
D'rath
Really looking forward to the HTC Thoth.....with the current on screen keyboard....I would'nt mind leaving the physical keyboard at home.....provided they launch it soon.....but kinda looking forward to one of their devices using the new Nvidia chips as well....
Yup, i'd only really be interested in one of the new Nvidia chipset devices as a replacement.
.. And an AMOLED display .. bloomin daylight :-(
the size on the HD is just perfect, ive tried some smaller ones since and its just not the same, i can see me using this thing until its fallen to bits unless a HD2 with a similar design comes out, its a perfect iPhone compeditor we just need a bit more grunt, OLEDS would be very cool, but i think we would have to drop the stylus, the metal wires in the screen reduce the brightness by a huge amount and im not sure how OLEDs compare with backlit LCD
Having had a Touch HD and Touch Pro2 I know why they don't make such a large screen anymore.
Using the TouchPro2's screen requires minimal 'touchdown' all around the screen - its consistent, whereas the Touch HD (I've had three of these) all exhibit the same issue - The middle of the screen requires less effort to register a screen press than the outer sides - making it inconsistent. I'm assuming this is due to the larger screen size the touch element of the phone has to cover....
Don't get me wrong - I loved my Touch HD but after the usual HTC and qualcomm marlaky of missing hardware drivers I'm pretty peeved off and have now deflect to the iphone 3GS. Yes its no-where near as technically superior as the Touch HD - but the screen and hardware acceleration make it very fluid to use.
Signed up to a 24month contract with the 3GS as I doubt very much HTC will be releasing anything decent (i.e. With a decent graphics chipset) for a while yet......
Agreed with the above posts..
Having OLED would be pretty cool... and maybe a capacitive touch screen-- however I doubt this as it wouldn't be compatible with handwriting recognition. Maybe better technology will overcome this someday as for now I can only dream... :/
zoomee,
I'll have to agree. The edges are not as responsive as the center. This is especially apparent in things like the X button on the top right.
Cheers.
zoomee said:
Having had a Touch HD and Touch Pro2 I know why they don't make such a large screen anymore.
Using the TouchPro2's screen requires minimal 'touchdown' all around the screen - its consistent, whereas the Touch HD (I've had three of these) all exhibit the same issue - The middle of the screen requires less effort to register a screen press than the outer sides - making it inconsistent. I'm assuming this is due to the larger screen size the touch element of the phone has to cover....
Don't get me wrong - I loved my Touch HD but after the usual HTC and qualcomm marlaky of missing hardware drivers I'm pretty peeved off and have now deflect to the iphone 3GS. Yes its no-where near as technically superior as the Touch HD - but the screen and hardware acceleration make it very fluid to use.
Signed up to a 24month contract with the 3GS as I doubt very much HTC will be releasing anything decent (i.e. With a decent graphics chipset) for a while yet......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah well, so no one has any news on anything to replace the Touch HD with. Pitty, they are losing out on market share to Apple. Unless that is they already figure the market is lost to them...
First things first: I generally like my HD2 - It's fast, has a nice display and a lot of other nice features but the touch screen outright sucks and is bordering on useless. Of course the iphone screen isn't much better but it still beats the HD2 screen hands down.
What's all the fuss about capacitive screens? All I can see is a loss in functionality. I hear their more durable but who cares whether the screen lasts 3 years or 10???? It's nowhere near as precise as any other touch screen device I ever owned. I can't use a stylus for drawing small things or playing most games....try playing crayon physics with this absolute piece of junk...or Warfare Incorporated.
I installed a sensitivity fix cab and it's somewhat usable for day to day stuff but still.....the 4.3" screen is nowhere near as usable as the 3" my X1 had and I could operate that with my finger only quite all right.
Seems like there nothing in capacitive screens other than being iphone-like. Why not have a 4.3" resistive screen? What's the actual downside?
ewok666 said:
try playing crayon physics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am and it works just fine for me
There are styluses (styli?) available for cap. screens also though.
The advantige of capacitive touch screens:
Glass can be used. Less vulnerable.
multi touch can be implemented.
more touch sensetive.
The advantige of resistive touch screens:
more accurate without software.
simple styles can be used.
cheap.
greatings,
marc
ewok666 said:
I can't use a stylus for drawing small things or playing most games....try playing crayon physics with this absolute piece of junk...or Warfare Incorporated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get ready to be flamed for your attitude. Coming onto a forum for fans of a device and calling it an "absolute piece of junk" is a pretty good way to not make friends!
Anyway, I finished Crayon Physics the other day, and had no problems doing so with my fingers. I suggest that the hardware isn't the problem here. Everyone else seems to manage fine.
I'd say the biggest downside of capacitive screens is the absence of multitouch capabilities. I have absolutely no problems operating my phone with it's capacitive screen. So to speak, Windows Mobile 6.x.x isn't really optimized for it anyways, as the HD2 was the first phone with capacitive screen on the platform.
If you wanted to work precise with a stylus then maybe you shouldn't have bought an HD2 in the first place.
ewok666 said:
... try playing crayon physics with this absolute piece of junk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offence but I would say that not being able to play/finish crayon physics deluxe with this peace of jewellery is of course not caused by the screen or the phone. I would search the cause somewhere else.....
ewok666 said:
First things first: I generally like my HD2 - It's fast, has a nice display and a lot of other nice features but the touch screen outright sucks and is bordering on useless. Of course the iphone screen isn't much better but it still beats the HD2 screen hands down.
What's all the fuss about capacitive screens? All I can see is a loss in functionality. I hear their more durable but who cares whether the screen lasts 3 years or 10???? It's nowhere near as precise as any other touch screen device I ever owned. I can't use a stylus for drawing small things or playing most games....try playing crayon physics with this absolute piece of junk...or Warfare Incorporated.
I installed a sensitivity fix cab and it's somewhat usable for day to day stuff but still.....the 4.3" screen is nowhere near as usable as the 3" my X1 had and I could operate that with my finger only quite all right.
Seems like there nothing in capacitive screens other than being iphone-like. Why not have a 4.3" resistive screen? What's the actual downside?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole benefit of a capacitive screen for me is that I don't have to use a stylus. If I wanted to use a stylus I would have gone for a different phone.
Why did you buy this phone if you wanted to use a stylus? You can however get one, have you tried that first before falling out with the phone? It could fulfill all your needs and then you'll see how good the HD2 is.
I think that it is a matter of habit and getting used to resistive screens in your case. I havent had a resistive screen ever but i played a quite a lot with some and i must say that capacitive is much more interactive, finger friendly and intuitive than resistive so you might just try not to be so stuborn and give it a chance Everytime i try to do something with my girlfriends' resistive samsung and i keep getting stuck with not knowing how hard should I push the screen exactly ... I am not a fan of the resistive and after all it is called TOUCH screen not a Push screen Enjoy your Hd mate !
You can use fingers on resistive touchscreens. These days even resistive touchscreens can have multitouch.
I think the main advantage of capacitive screen is the glass, as was mentioned. Resistive screen must deform under the touching object, which means it wears down.
For phone, capacitive screen is just ok.
For tablet PCs, I'd like to see combination of capacitive screen with electromagnetic stylus (like tablet has) where you could switch the mode.
Capacitive screen is good for fast controls, but if you draw with stylus, you don't want the screen to react on random touches.
For example iPad has rather thick borders around the screen .. because you have to hold it somehow without actually touching the screen.
ewok666 said:
try playing crayon physics with this absolute piece of junk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The game is so addictive i completed this morning. Try junking your fingers?
A capacitive screen makes our screen a real touch screen instead of 'tap screen'.
kruithofm said:
The advantige of capacitive touch screens:
more touch sensetive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think so. Resistive is much more sensitive and precise. Pen stroke input used to be the reason PPC stuck to resistive input.
Being an HD2 fan doesn't mean a capacitive fan. Capacitive is the reason that I nearly bought an Omnia II instead of HD2. For me, it is something to hate.
With resistive, I don't mind carrying around a stylus when it means I can do precision work. And I can still use my fingers when I need to.
Now that we have WVGA, I believe now that we can sacrifice screen estate and use huge UIs so that capacitive screen can survive. But that means old applications written for resistive screens (including WM6.1 dialogues) usually have too small UIs for use on HD2.
Alex, That the Capacitive touch is more sensetive is an advantige, with the interface or software you can decrese the sensetivety. On resistive touch screens it is technicaly inposible to get the sensetivety as high as on capacitive.
It is posible to make resistive touch screens multitouch. only that takes a lot of software to calculate positions of pressing.
The techniek is very different between both. therefore you love it or you don't. some get used to it, some don't. It is all personal. There are even people who love the small keyboards. And even my wife loves only the number keys on the normal simple phones since she uses the dictionairy. And I have to say, She is faster writing a sms than me.
So everyone should use whatever they like. Every option has it's advantiges.
johncmolyneux said:
Get ready to be flamed for your attitude. Coming onto a forum for fans of a device and calling it an "absolute piece of junk" is a pretty good way to not make friends!
Anyway, I finished Crayon Physics the other day, and had no problems doing so with my fingers. I suggest that the hardware isn't the problem here. Everyone else seems to manage fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should have been more specific: The junk I'm referring to is the screen and NOT the device. Like I said, I like the device but IMHO all the 'advantages' of capacitive don't make up for its downsides.
Just to address some of the comments:
Resistive screens CAN be touch operated without a stylus
They do NOT break down all the time
AFAIK they CAN support multitouch
Maybe it's just the crappy implementation of capacitive that HTC has done. The Iphone screen does not seem to suffer from all the issues the HD2 has:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=595655
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=604831
The stylus for capacitive screens is a joke. Come on, do they have to be that fat and ugly? Is there really no way to have a small, pointy, conductive stylus?
Are capacitive screen really a requirement for WM7?
ewok666 said:
The stylus for capacitive screens is a joke. Come on, do they have to be that fat and ugly? Is there really no way to have a small, pointy, conductive stylus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learn before you preach.
johncmolyneux said:
Get ready to be flamed for your attitude. Coming onto a forum for fans of a device and calling it an "absolute piece of junk" is a pretty good way to not make friends!
Anyway, I finished Crayon Physics the other day, and had no problems doing so with my fingers. I suggest that the hardware isn't the problem here. Everyone else seems to manage fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahahahaha!!! John is right. Better be careful what you post on this forum.
I say put your fingers on a strict diet! Enroll them in a exercise regime until you can use your "piece of junk" effectively.
Well, for me the #1 reason for me to get an HD2 IS the capacitive screen.
I've had many many resistive screen devices (1 old pocketpc, 4 HTC phones, 2 touch-enabled UMPCs), and I'm tired of having to use my nail to press on that screen. It's perfectly fine on old-style UIs that rely on clicks only, but for the "new" flick, scroll, tap, pinch, rotate, capacitive is just the way to go.
Still getting mad when I tap my Kaiser's screen with my finger (not the nail) and it thinks I want to scroll, and goes 2 pages down... only works fine with something sharp, whatever the settings/tweaks.
capacitive is a reason to buy for me: it is what made the HD2 stand out for me. I will never go back to resistive technology.
I must say though that in my opinion the iPhone display is of a superior quality, not in terms of pixel count, but certainly in terms of its accuracy, sensitivity and reliability. it is simply a lot easier to tap out words on the iPhone than on the HD2. It also responds better to cold (if I go out in the winter breeze I sometimes find my HD2 starts pressing keys and moving the screen about of its own accord).
ewok666 said:
I should have been more specific: The junk I'm referring to is the screen and NOT the device. Like I said, I like the device but IMHO all the 'advantages' of capacitive don't make up for its downsides.
Just to address some of the comments:
Resistive screens CAN be touch operated without a stylus
They do NOT break down all the time
AFAIK they CAN support multitouch
Maybe it's just the crappy implementation of capacitive that HTC has done. The Iphone screen does not seem to suffer from all the issues the HD2 has:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=595655
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=604831
The stylus for capacitive screens is a joke. Come on, do they have to be that fat and ugly? Is there really no way to have a small, pointy, conductive stylus?
Are capacitive screen really a requirement for WM7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try walkin down the street while tryin to send an sms using the stylus on a resistive screen...u'll be sooo glad ur hd2 is capacitive...
kruithofm said:
The advantige of capacitive touch screens:
Glass can be used. Less vulnerable.
multi touch can be implemented.
more touch sensetive.
The advantige of resistive touch screens:
more accurate without software.
simple styles can be used.
cheap.
greatings,
marc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this should have been end of thread.
So one thing that bugs the living heck out of me is the lame touchscreen on my Nexus One... Does anyone know what touchscreen this phone is going to be using????
I can honestly say that's the SINGLE thing keeping me from thinking about ditching my N1 for this phone...
EDIT ADDON: I'm not talking about the display screen type, I'm trying to find out the manufacturer and model of the touchscreen used in the EVO 4G
tropmonky said:
So one thing that bugs the living heck out of me is the lame touchscreen on my Nexus One... Does anyone know what touchscreen this phone is going to be using????
I can honestly say that's the SINGLE thing keeping me from thinking about ditching my N1 for this phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was wondering the same thing and posted this on another forum. I guess it is relevant here too.
I have been reading up on this a bit more and I don't think there is enough information yet to make a call on whether this is AMOLED or TFT LCD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnQcsC-qjpo
In this video at exactly 3:00, some representative (from Sprint or HTC?) specifically says that the display is a 4.3" TFT display and NOT AMOLED :
http://developer.sprint.com/site/global/develop/mobile_platforms/android/android.jsp
I also found this link in a thread on androidcentral.com which is a Sprint developers site that states the following:
Display
Type: amoled captive multi-touch
Size: 4.3 inches wga
Resolution: 800x480 (WVGA)
HDMI output: YES
I guess the verdict is still out on this issue unless someone else has anything to add.
Camp said:
I have been reading up on this a bit more and I don't think there is enough information yet to make a call on whether this is AMOLED or TFT LCD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, it's TFT like you hear the reps say in the videos, that's all over the place in the videos released just a couple days ago as you've already seen... it's a really really high quality TFT.. I just haven't been able to find out the Touchscreen yet.
For me, this is also the number one area of concern. My understanding is that the technology is quite different from iPhone's. It would be really good if they can have the accurate and predictable screen behaviour of iPhone's touchscreen. My guess is that iPhone has already patented their touchscreen technolgy so it would not be legal to copy it now.
Pretty much everywhere you look, and including the rep, its a TFT screen. The AMOLED was what many thought the "Supersonic" would have, but when the Evo was announced, it was said to be TFT.
But then, alot of people are saying TFT > AMOLED for practical use (sunlight issues). Sure you can bring up Super AMOLED, but I'm not sure HTC has the rights to use that technology yet.
My main concern is the accuracy of the touch screen manufactured by HTC.
See this report if you have not done so yet:
http://labs.moto.com/robot_touchscreen_analysis/
Yeah, condensed version for those at work:
ArsTechnica
But, with a screen that large - I doubt touchscreen performance will be lacking. Has anyone heard any issues with the HD2's touchscreen performance?
I have both the HD2 and the 3GS.
The HD2 touchscreen is crude compared to the iPhone.
On a web page, links often cannot be selected, and the keyboard is horrible to use despite the fact that is larger than the iphone's.
The keyboard responds to the last input detected. Touch a letter and as you move your finger away and brush another letter that is the one that is selected, which is a major hassle.
Also pinch & zoom is very limited on the HD2.
keatre said:
Pretty much everywhere you look, and including the rep, its a TFT screen. The AMOLED was what many thought the "Supersonic" would have, but when the Evo was announced, it was said to be TFT.
But then, alot of people are saying TFT > AMOLED for practical use (sunlight issues). Sure you can bring up Super AMOLED, but I'm not sure HTC has the rights to use that technology yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The original question isn't about the display screen. I don't care about TFT or AMOLED, I'm only taking about the touchscreen which has nothing to do with the display.
http://www.synaptics.com/solutions/products/clearpad
The current problems with basically all the current HTC phones is that they use a Synaptics 2000 touchscreen... The N1 has basically the same touch hardware as the G1 and all the current HTC phones... Frankly it sucks for a modern day "superphone", I say modern day smartphone that relies on touch for it's only input. It's sad that HTC/Google went with a inferior touchscreen compared to the iPhone which has been out for how many years already? Clearly for multitouch games and applications to work properly the Synaptics 2000 just won't cut it.
I'm hoping the EVO will move to the Synaptics 3000 screen which is true multitouch. That's what I'm trying to find out, what manufacturer and model is the touchscreen.
You can see a demo of the Synaptics 3000 in action here: http://vimeo.com/5739205
Ahhhh, true multitouch like the iPhone. I bet all the wackness I get when trying to type fast will go away with this. Oh, and the phone won't freak out if part of my hand is touching the side of the glass ever so slightly.
tropmonky said:
The original question isn't about the display screen. I don't care about TFT or AMOLED, I'm only taking about the touchscreen which has nothing to do with the display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow.. Well thanks for the edit now, atleast. My apologies for not digging so deep into your question. I do know about the Synaptic screens, however, I do not know if the EVO is 2000 or 3000.
Again, I'm SO sorry for not understanding initially.
no worries, I just feel the need to spell everything out because, well it's the internet.
I hope a new kick butt Android phone comes out this year with true multitouch... I miss the iPhone quality a lot.
...That was supposed to be sarcasm, but oh well, glad we're all happy.
..Anyways, after a little digging, I found a rumor that Synaptics isn't doing the touchscreen for the Evo, Atmel is.
Could be bogus, but who knows.
Whew, more than I could find out which was/is nothing, LOL!
Being HTC has used Synaptics in all (From what I know) of the recent phones over the last 2yrs I find it hard they would go somewhere else... But hey, maybe Synaptics is asking too high of a price for the new 3000 screen... who knows..
That 4in 4G phone sure looks awesome though!
News article quote I found..
This little-known company (Atmel) supplies chips for the Apple iPad, according to the tech design consultancy Chipworks. Atmel has also taken business from another Under the Radar pick, Synaptics(SYNA), by supplying touch screens for HTC's new Evo device, according to Lazard Capital Markets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10723835/1/ipad-boom-could-catapult-small-chipmaker.html
I've only played with the iPad at work, and not extensively, but the thing has a pretty dang good responsive touchscreen. Again, this is from 2-3 days of use, so not entirely sure.. But I've had little issues with it.
NICE FIND! I hope it's true, if so it sounds like the EVO may get the same quality as the iPhone....
thumb friendly
I think multitouch on a phone is over rated. It's an inconvenient gimmick. I prefer operations that can be done one handed. I'd rather double tap to zoom so I don't spill my coffee on my phone.
keatre said:
News article quote I found..
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10723835/1/ipad-boom-could-catapult-small-chipmaker.html
I've only played with the iPad at work, and not extensively, but the thing has a pretty dang good responsive touchscreen. Again, this is from 2-3 days of use, so not entirely sure.. But I've had little issues with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the news is true that HTC Supersonic uses the same screen as iPhone, then I'll be extremely happy. Everyone knows iPhone still have the best touch screen technology, although that technology is 3 years old now. There as a robotic test done to compare the various screen. You should be able to google it and find the test report.
Manicmobileaddict said:
I think multitouch on a phone is over rated. It's an inconvenient gimmick. I prefer operations that can be done one handed. I'd rather double tap to zoom so I don't spill my coffee on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to respectfully disagree with you.
Multitouch is fantastic if the software developers knows how to use it. My web browser in iPhone is an example of where multitouch has been put to good use. Double finger left to go the previous tab, double finger right to go the next tab, three fingers to bring up the favourites, etc, etc. On full screen, where you do not want any button to clutter the web page, such possibility is pure joy. Another example, you could have a music player where you can double finger left to go to previous song, double finger right to go to next song, three fingers up to use the next playlist, etc. You can safely use the music player like this while driving!
I guess I'll jump into the frey. The iPhone set the standard when there wasn't one. Apple has done a monumental job on it's portable devices, where, arguably, their computers could have had broader appeal - but I digress.
My HD2 has some very nice features, but it took me a month to get used to the capacitive screen, with and without the touch sensitivity tweaks available in the HD2 forum. The pinch to zoom functions work well in opera (I don't use PIE), but other applications, like media player are not suited for this functions, even though it works using a homegrown app posted on the HD2 forum.
I'm guessing the EVO will have the same, non AMOLED, TFT capacitive screen the HD2 has. I've seen the HD2 next to the iPhone in sunlight. iPhone absolutely blows the HD2 away, so I try my best to stay out of the light. I live in the NW US, so that's not usually a problem.
I've found the back hardkey button works nicely for previous browser or application screen, but lack of forward function in the browser is quite frustrating.
One last thing. In most states driving while using headphone is illegal. Please do so safely with one eye out for the police.
So I'm a bit confused here... The HTC Evo and HD2 have the same screen, yeah? So the HD2 has the amtel chip... Would we then be able to say all the trouble with HD2 screen (see prev poster) will also come with the EVO?
I know the LG Optimus has a resistive touch screen, but is it possible to get muti touch by replacing original touchscreen to a glass touch screen and a new digitizer?
I cannot say it is impossible, because everything is possible. I think it is not worth
That's quite a big question, one problem that stands out is the odd shape of the GT540's screen, it doesn't stop as such where the screen stops, it stops before the real buttons, that would suggest to me that you'd have to have a custom screen and digitizer with those resistive buttons we have at the bottom (MENU, BACK) changed to capacitive, a custom screen would probably cost more than the phone itself. But if you do decide to waste a load of money outfitting a phone instead of buying a new one, on top of that you'd have to be able to program drivers for the display to work and you would have to modify your software that your phone runs top work with multi-touch.
So in short, really, no.
But if we had a load of developers (which we don't) what could be designed is a counter-point which isn't multi-touch in the traditional sense and is a software work-around, but still a bit of a waste of time.
I think is very strong to realize.
But i should be wonder
It's a very hard work... I don't think we'll have multitouch soon...
i will really want multitouch but think about it, its just cheaper and less time consuming to just get a new phone..
I am not permitted to post links, so search on youtube ''lg gt540 multi touch'' (without the quotes). First result is the one.
about the video:
This guy made a workaround for basic dualtouch. AFAIK and see one finger needs to be hold in place.
HI MrAndroid12
I think it's possible only if some one tweaks the kernel for recognizing multiple points
after replacing the resistive touch screen to capacitive one...
I would like to clear one thing to everyone who have an wrong notion about resistive touch screen..
A resistive touch screen can recognize a stylus or a small area of touch well
but a capacitive screen can recognize a larger area of touch like a finger..
and some resistive screen devices can multi touch..
Thanks are welcome if you found this post useful... Mail me for more details
subham964 said:
and some resistive screen devices can multi touch..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which?
Sent from my GT540 using XDA App
Resisitive
This phone has a RESISTIVE touch screen:
http://www.gsmarena.com/multitouch_coming_to_for_nokia_5800_xpressmusic_sort_of-news-872.php
subham964 said:
HI MrAndroid12
I would like to clear one thing to everyone who have an wrong notion about resistive touch screen..
A resistive touch screen can recognize a stylus or a small area of touch well
but a capacitive screen can recognize a larger area of touch like a finger..
and some resistive screen devices can multi touch..
Thanks are welcome if you found this post useful... Mail me for more details
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our GT540 has a really qualitative resistive screen, compared with others. And, yes, I really like using a stylus, for handwritten notes for example (I still miss my LG Cookie for that function).
It's true that capacitive screens have been advertized as better than resistive.
It is true,if you like responsiveness and the highest standards of all have been set by Apple in this field.
However, it is not ONLY responsiveness that matters in some cases, right?
It would be good if LG did
make lg gt540 multi-touch!!
sad...
Another issue to be aware of is the electronics to drive a capacitative screen are different to those for a resistive one. I think a lot more work would be involved beyond just drivers and actually finding a screen that would work.
androidboss7 said:
It would be good if LG did
make lg gt540 multi-touch!!
sad...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't agree more. I just can't wait for my next phone
it's possible.. but it's very expensive..