Related
It seems the G1 absolutely requires the owner to have a Gmail account; when you turn on the device, the initial setup wizard asks your details, and offers to create a new account if you don't have one. Also, it seems that it only supports one Google account at a time; if you want to change the signed-on account, you need to soft-reset the device.
If you add that Gmail has all your emails, tracks your browsing, recognizes people's faces in your pictures and asks you to name them... how comfortable are you knowing that your Google account is now linked to your mobile phone ?
metempsihoza said:
It seems the G1 absolutely requires the owner to have a Gmail account; when you turn on the device, the initial setup wizard asks your details, and offers to create a new account if you don't have one. Also, it seems that it only supports one Google account at a time; if you want to change the signed-on account, you need to soft-reset the device.
If you add that Gmail has all your emails, tracks your browsing, recognizes people's faces in your pictures and asks you to name them... how comfortable are you knowing that your Google account is now linked to your mobile phone ?
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Click to collapse
Very, if I wasn't comfortable with sharing my information with Google I never would've signed up for my first Gmail account. As for pointing out people in pictures, facebook-esque? I'm pretty sure that will be optional, so you shouldn't have to worry about that if you don't want to. I don't see the big deal, unless they use the information (and for what?).
As for browser tracking, there's already the "Iron" variant of Chrome which strips out all of the user tracking. The same will undoubtedly be done for Android, if it's not explicitly available already.
Do you ever worry about your ISP? They log every user every day in everythings they do. I guess not, same for tracing cookies, for example, just because we have to deal everyday with them... because that's how internet works. So, Google is just another provider that offers great and useful services, for free.
stocaprimo said:
Do you ever worry about your ISP? They log every user every day in everythings they do. I guess not, same for tracing cookies, for example, just because we have to deal everyday with them... because that's how internet works. So, Google is just another provider that offers great and useful services, for free.
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I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.
lennie said:
I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.
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Haha if you don't trust your ISP then get off the internet, they know absolutely everything you do, and if they wanted to use any of it against you they could.
lennie said:
I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.
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Click to collapse
Not sure where you saw a clause about voice chat. Perhaps if you provided a reference it would help.
It's true that just because something is free doesn't mean it's good. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, either, or that things that cost money are always good. The real question is whether or not there is any malicious intent, and again there's nothing that says anything free is automatically malicious.
Part of the reason why Google's products are so popular is because Google has the ability to mine copious amounts of userdata in order to create powerful and useful services. It turns out that with most of these products, you reach a threshold where there's so much userdata that your own specific data becomes statistically insignificant -- security through obscurity.
Sure there are people to whom that "excuse" is not good enough, and there are ways to opt out of submitting userdata. But at least Google provides (some amount of) transparency to their terms, which is more than can be said about many other companies that are more callous about abusing your privacy for monetary gain. If you're that concerned about privacy, then you should give up Google products, online search/directory services, online shops like Amazon and B&N, the vast majority of user-generated content sites, messaging services like AIM and MSN, ... Pretty much everything short of disconnecting your ISP. Same with wireless carriers and how they track your calls, voicemail, messaging, possibly even location. Hell, you might as well just stop doing anything, because even in real life, everything you do and everything you buy says something about you.
Of course there's something to be said that the G1 ships with only Google apps installed. But that's missing the bigger picture, that the open platform (the core Android stack, which needs absolutely no userdata for functionality) essentially allows you to trim the baggage wherever you see fit. Certainly not right away, and the G1 will be the learning curve, but ultimately the whole platform will have a level of transparency that no other mobile OS (WinMo, iPhone, Symbian, BlackBerry, etc) currently has.
People said the same thing about library cards 20 years ago. Anyone who thinks any organization, let alone the government, respects your privacy is living in a fantasy world.
Google has fought the government in the US over privacy issues (the US government wants Google to hand over all sorts of user information) and Google has won several cases. I think the e-mails I got with links to the numa-numa dance or mortgages or viagra or my nigerian cousin with money to send me are fairly safe for now.
I'm not worried.
1) I'm not typing in my birthdate, SS#, and mailing address left and right. All the other information is pretty much useless for anything significant.
2) Identity theft is the easiest crime to prosecute. Most of the criminals are stupid and have the merchandise, credit cards, or other stuff sent to their own address, leading the Cops/FBI straight to their door.
3) If I were truly worried, I'd have my credit reports frozen. It's not that expensive, and it stops ID theft, even when the thief has all your info.
beartard said:
Google has fought the government in the US over privacy issues (the US government wants Google to hand over all sorts of user information) and Google has won several cases.
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This a perfect example why I'd rather trust Google with personal info than many other entities. The Governmnet was trying to do something illegal, Google resisted and won.
The reason that Google all the data gathering is for en masse analysis. Wired had an interesting article about it recently (link). This gigantic mass of data is how they were able to create the Chrome browser so quickly and have it work. The information they have allowed them to simulate years of beta testing in a few days. They don't really care it YOU use a particular website or type of phone, they care that 213568 people use a particular website or type of phone.
It really annoys me that people get on Google's case for this type of thing. They could easily have been more underhanded and you'd never know and they'd really never have to tell you because of legal loopholes.
They're being upfront that that's a good thing.
oh wow... I just watched a talk at Hope from a PI about this... so... all you information is publicly available already. With any single piece of information about you someone can get you DOB, SSN, jobs and pay, friends, sexual orientation, your picture, religion, political views,....... and on and on and on. Google already has one of the largest databases of information about you. You know what really surprised me? The company with the largest consumer database in the USA? Domino's... the FBI buys information about you from a pizza place. Myspace, linkdin, monster, transunion, facebook,.... they are all keeping information on you... it's a scary world out there... if you have an SSN you information is publicly available. If you have used the internet then even more about you is public knowledge. Here is the best part... because google, facebook, monster..... are all private companies they don't have to delete you information EVER... and its not all bad... if the government had been looking at the information on the 9/11 hijackers we probably could have stopped 9/11 based on the information about the terrorists that is publicly available.
BTW google is now offering a service for doctors to store your medical information online
sorry for rambling... I am getting a G1 and I have trusted google for years... if you are wanted don't get online, make a phone call, drive your car, or even walk outside in some cities but otherwise you shouldn't have anything to fear.
dagentooboy said:
...you know what really surprised me? The company with the largest consumer database in the USA? Domino's... the FBI buys information about you from a pizza place...
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And your source for this rather unbelieveable claim is...?
sorry... here is the session that I watched...
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=3079242748023143842&hl=en&fs=true
and part 2
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=2219573359400519690&hl=en&fs=true
I was just trying to make a point about how little privacy we really have these days... watch it for your self if you want to devote the 3 hrs to it (Very interesting)
dagentooboy said:
and its not all bad... if the government had been looking at the information on the 9/11 hijackers we probably could have stopped 9/11 based on the information about the terrorists that is publicly available.
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Using the same information, you can see that five of the 17-18 hijackers on 9/11 are running Dominos pizza places in Riyadh at this very moment.
Android EULA Questions
If someone can send me a copy of the EULA for the G1, both Android and TMo's I would really appreciate it. I want one, but I have nagging privacy concerns that T-Mobile is unable/unwilling to answer.
Android is in a position to collect serious amounts of data on individuals, and the combination of Google's desktop information combined with the information from the handset has really scary Orwellian possibilities. With Android Google has the ability to collect very detailed location information. There has been no mention in the media over the rights to the data that could be collected by Google. Does the EULA give Google the rights to use and sell the data collected from Android, and specify what data it collects, and give you an opt-out?
I know it's really kind of conspiracy theory, and sounds out in left field, but I don't put anything past corporations trying to make money. Imagine if you went in to buy a car, and the dealer buys your Google data? They know know what cars you have looked at online, what dealers you have visited, how long you were there, and whether or not you have explored other financing options than the dealers. Same with buying a house... The selling agent could buy your Google data, and know what other houses you have looked at, and what price range you are looking in. Possibly serious advantages in negotiating.
Imagine the value of the information your bank would have if they bought your location data, and overlayed it with your banking records. they then could sell a very detailed consumer profile of where you shopped, where you bought, and other spending/location/web history data.
The bar code application has lousy implications also. It gives the vendor of the app a really good idea of what you are shopping for, and the locations you do your shopping.
Another thing that's kind of unnerving is the association of your location with your google calendar.
It's bad enough with all the data Google gets from my email, calendar, and web history do I really want them to have EVERYTHING?
Are you that paranoid?
As if your information isn't out there for anyone to get now.
Your phone is as safe as it's gonna be as the amount of info you keep on your desktop gmail.
whether is on a desktop gmail account or a phones.
Guess what? same thing.
Unless I'm really missing something. lol
Your ISP doesnt really protect you much. Gmail has won court orders from the government revealing info from accounts.
Toss a coin.
you have a point. but to be honest everything is gearing to that. from easy pass to credit/debit cards to just logging into you isp and geetting ads to meet single in your hoe town. i realized this as i just movend and was getting adds for where i lived.
if someone wanted to find u they just need ur cell phone. unless u have a analog phone u are being tracked (or can be tracked) whether u want to be or not.
or u can get the phone set up and email with gmail then do not use it. use the pop email feature until a full exchange solution come out. the use yahoo or altav or anything else for searching. u might have some temp success at eluding the glasses of google.
if i had the info u were really looking for i would be glad to share. if i dont miss or havent missed ups. today might be the day
I know everything on my PC's well monitored by everyone from the ISP to every friggin advertising cookie that gets dropped on me. Private email's on my own server, not GMail. I just think location data's a little much, and people need to be cognizant of what we are giving away for shiny new toys and features. And Google's little gaff with the Chrome EULA (We want the rights to everything you do with this..I Know it was an "error") removed a lot of the don't be evil luster.
And just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching....
My point was...you have a sim card type cell. Thats all they need to track you.
You can delete every program on the phone. Guess what, you can be tracked, by the sim card inserted and your phone just being on.
As for info do what was mentioned in the previous thread.
Miss read and deleted a statement!
I know, I can be tracked tower to tower, and approximated (I used to work in a 911 dispatch center and had to deal with a ton of cell 911 calls). But, there is some expectation of privacy from a telco, and oversight from the FCC is a possibility (I know, great job they've done so far with carriers). But, like I said, I was curious, and none of the blogging coverage has said anything yet, s I figured I might try to stir up some stuff.
First of all: I'm an OSS advocate and love the idea of open source. Don't forget that while reading this.
Some 2 month ago, I got myself a Galaxy S. It's not exactly cheap, but on the other side, it's really good hardware. This thread is not about Samsung or the Galaxy S. It's about the missing parts of android security.
We all know it from our home computers: Software sometimes has bugs. Some just annoy us, others are potentially dangerous for our beloved data. Our data sometimes gets stolen or deleted due to viruses. Viruses enter our machines by exploiting bugs that allow for code execution or priviledge escalation. To stay patched, we regularly execute our "apt-get update;apt-get dist-upgrade" or use windows update. We do this to close security holes on our systems.
In the PC world, the software and OS manufacturers release security bulletins to inform users of potentially dangerous issues. They say how to work around them or provide a patch.
How do we stay informed about issues and keep our Android devices updated?
Here's what Google says:
We will publicly announce security bugs when the fixes are available via postings to the android-security-announce group on Google Groups.
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Click to collapse
Source: http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/faq/security.html#informed
OK, that particular group is empty (except for a welcome post). Maybe there are no bugs in Android. Go check yourself and google a bit - they do exist.
"So why doesn't Google tell us?", you ask. I don't know. What I know is that the various components of Android (WebKit, kernel, ...) do have bugs. There's nothing wrong with that BTW, software is made by people - and people make mistakes and write buggy code all the time. Just read the changelogs or release notes.
"Wait", I head you say, "there are no changelogs or release notes for Android releases".
Oh - so let's sum up what we need to stay informed about security issues, bugs and workarounds:
* Security bulletins and
* Patches or Workaround information
What of these do we have? Right, nada, zilch, rien.
I'll leave it up to you to decide if that's good common practise.
"But why is this important anyway", you ask.
Well, remember my example above. You visit a website and suddenly find all your stored passwords floating around on the internet. Don't tell me that's not possible, there was a WebKit bug in 2.2 that did just that. Another scenario would be a drive-by download that breaks out of the sandbox and makes expensive phone calls. Or orders subscriptions for monthly new ringtones, raising your bill by orders of magnitute. Or shares your music on illegal download portals (shh, don't tell the RIAA that this is remotely possible).
The bug is probably fixed in 2.2.1 - but without changelogs we can't be sure.
But that's not all - there's a second problem. Not only are we unaware of security issues, we also don't have automated update mechanisms.
We only receive updates when our phone's manufacturers release new firmware. Sadly, not all manufacturers support their phones in the long run.
In the PC world, most Distros have a central package management - that Google forgot to implement in Android. Agreed, some phones can receive OTA updates, but that depends on the carrier. And because of the differences in Android versions it's not possible to have a central patch management either. So we do not know if our Android devices might have security issues. We also have no easy way to patch them.
Perhaps you knew this before, then I apologize for taking your time.
What do YOU - the computer literate and security aware XDA users - think about this? Do you think that's a problem? Or would you rather say that these are minor problems?
Very intresting, thanks! The update problem should be fixed with the next release, no more custom UIs and mods from phone manufacturers,at least google said that
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Excellent post and quite agree with you. The other significant problem looming is the granularity (or rather, lack thereof) in app permissions which can cause problems you describe without bugs and exploits. I install an app that does something interesting with contacts and also has internet access to display ads. How do I know that my contacts are not encrypted, so making sniffing useless, and beamed back to mummy? Nothing other than blind trust!
I love Android but it's an accident waiting to happen unless the kind of changes you advocate are implemented and granularity of permissions significantly increased. I don't like much about Apple but their walled garden app store is something they did get right although IMHO, they also abuse that power to stifle competition. Bring out the feds!
simonta said:
The other significant problem looming is the granularity (or rather, lack thereof) in app permissions [...]
How do I know that my contacts are not encrypted, so making sniffing useless, and beamed back to mummy? Nothing other than blind trust!
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I agree, although I'm not sure that less experienced users might have difficulties with such options.
simonta said:
I love Android but it's an accident waiting to happen
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Sad but true. I'm just curious what Google will do when the first problems arise and the first users will have groundshaking bills.
If that happens to just a few users, it'll get a kind media coverage Google surely won't like.
I've seen quite a few android exploits posted on bugtraq over the years. It's a high-volume email list, but with some filtering of stuff you don't care about, it becomes manageable. It's been around forever and is a good resource if you want the latest security news on just about anything computer related.
http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/description
People are bashing a lot about the Android security model but the truth is you can never have 100% protection with ANY solution.
Apple is not allowing any app in their store. Fine. but mostly they are only filtering out apps that crash, violate some rules or they just don't like them or whatever. but they can never tell what an app is really doing. Therefore they would neeed to reverse-engineer every app they get etc. That's just impossible considering the amount of apps....
Speaking again of Android. I think the permission model is not bad. I mean, no other OS got such detailed description about what an app can do or not. But unfortunately it can only filter out very conspicuous apps, i.e. a Reversi game asking for your location and internet access. But then you never know... if the app is using ads it requires location and internet access, right? so what can you do?
RAMMANN said:
Apple is not allowing any app in their store. Fine. but mostly they are only filtering out apps that crash, violate some rules or they just don't like them or whatever. but they can never tell what an app is really doing. Therefore they would neeed to reverse-engineer every app they get etc. That's just impossible considering the amount of apps....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really, they do blackbox testing and let the apps run on emulated devices they then check if the app "behaves" as desired...
Of course you can't get 100% security and I don't think that's what we're saying, but there is a lot you can do.
Take for example internet access which is the biggest worry I have. The only reason most apps request internet access is to support ads. I now have a choice to make, don't use the app or trust it. That simple, no other choice.
If I installed an app that serves ads but did not have internet access, then the only way that app can get information off my phone is to use exploits and I'm a lot more comfortable knowing that some miscreant needs to understand that than the current situation where some script kiddy can hoover up my contacts.
However, if internet access and ad serving were separate permissions, you could in one hit address, taking a wild guess, 90% of the risk from the wild west that is Marketplace. With a bit more design and work, it would be possible to get the risk down to manageable and acceptable levels (at least for me).
I absolutely agree with you on Apple, one of the main reasons that I chose a Desire instead of an iPhone, but the Android approach is too far the other way IMHO.
Just my tuppence, in a hopeless cause of imagining someone at Google paying attention and thinking you know what, it is an accident waiting to happen.
marty1976 said:
Not really, they do blackbox testing and let the apps run on emulated devices they then check if the app "behaves" as desired...
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Click to collapse
Well, so why did a tethering app once make it into the appstore?
Also I think there are many possibilities for an app to behave normal, and just start some bad activity after some time. Wait a couple months until the app is spread around and then bang. Or remotely launch some action initiated through push notifications etc.
If there is interest, then there is always a way....
simonta said:
However, if internet access and ad serving were separate permissions, you could in one hit address, taking a wild guess, 90% of the risk from the wild west that is Marketplace. With a bit more design and work, it would be possible to get the risk down to manageable and acceptable levels (at least for me).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that a seperate permission for ads would be a good thing.
But there are still many apps which need your location, contacts, internet access.... all the social media things nowadays. And this is where the whole thing will be going to so I think in the future it will be even harder to differenciate.
Getting back on topic: I just read that Windows 7 Phone will get updates and patches like desktop windows. That means patchday once a month plus when urgency is high...
simonta said:
However, if internet access and ad serving were separate permissions, you could in one hit address, taking a wild guess, 90% of the risk from the wild west that is Marketplace. With a bit more design and work, it would be possible to get the risk down to manageable and acceptable levels (at least for me).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But, how do you distinguish them? Today, (as a developer) I can use any ad-provider I want. In order to distinguish ads from general internet access, the OS would need one of:
A Google-defined ad interface, which stifles "creativity" in ad design. Developers would simply ignore it and do what they do now as soon as their preferred ad-provider didn't want to support the "official" ad system or provided some improvement by doing so.
An OS update to support every new ad-provider (yuck^2).
Every ad-provider would have to go through a Google whitelist that was looked up on the fly (increased traffic, and all ads are now "visible" to Google whether Google is involved in the transaction or not). This would also make ad-blocking apps harder to implement since Google's whitelisting API might not behave if the whitelist was unavailable. On the upside, it would make ad-blocking in custom ROMs be trivial.
Even if Google did one of these things, it still wouldn't provide any real increase in privacy or security. The "ad service" would still need to deliver a payload from the app to the service (in order to select ads) and another from the service to the app (the ad content). Such a mechanism could be trivially exploited to do anything that simple HTTP access could provide.
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
issues submitted are reviewed by google employed techs... they tell you if you messed up and caused the issue or if the issue will be fixed in a future release or whatever info they find.
probably not the best way to handle it but its better then nothing.
twztdwyz said:
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
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Knew that bug tracker, but the free tagging aka labels isn't the best idea IMHO.
You can't search for a specific release, for example...
twztdwyz said:
probably not the best way to handle it but its better then nothing.
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Click to collapse
Ack, but I think Google can do _much_ better...
Two more things to have in mind:
1. I doubt that many Android users bother much about what permissions they give to an app.
2. Using Google to sync your contacts and calendar (and who knows what else), is a bad, bad idea.
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
10% of your commission, and you got a deal
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, if the person wiped this and the device will not reset it when it is wiped you need to call Moto and let them know or call your Home Office and let them know. PM me what store you work for and I will try and help as best I can.
Verrrrry interesting original post...
I'm guessing Best Buy. First thing:
Move it out of the stinking netbook aisle at the very back, put it in a more prominent place, where it deserves to be. If you hide stuff like that, people aren't gonna see it, therefore they aren't gonna buy it. This should be basic stuff for a retail chain, but for some reason these types of things slip their mind. When I went to bestbuy to get my xoom, I wouldn't have even known it existed if I hadn't done some research beforehand, and the tablet was waaaaaaaaaaay in the back of the netbook section, and I mean the VERY back...last "stall" there.
As for your boss, I think he can take the hit on ONE xoom to sell many of them. Tell him that the most effective way to "ipad baby-proof" the thing is to root it and install TitaniumBackup. He probably thinks rooting means radically changing things, which currently, it doesn't. You're going to have to explain it to him, probably in baby terms if he's anything like most managers I've had, who didn't know their butt from a hole in the ground. If you put it in terms of profitability, he MAY understand.
As for cool apps, just give the sales force a demo model to play with when they're not doing anything else. Let them get to KNOW the device. When I go to buy something, it's not so important for the sales person to know what they're selling me because I already have done a ton of research, but I am not your typical customer. You're going to get a lot of people in there who aren't really that tech-savvy, so if the sales people on the floor know how to use the device, they can demo some of the cooler features to the people.
For example:
Your grandmother walks into the store, she's looking for something to use to email her grandchildren, perhaps a video chat occasionally and she wants something EASY to use, fairly inexpensive and something she's not going to have to pay the geek squad to set up. Well, right this way ma'am, I have something that would be perfect for you, <insert sales demo here>... unit sold.
Another example:
Younger person comes into the store, looking at iPads. Ask them what they're looking to do with the device. If your sales force KNOWS both the iPad and the Xoom, it's kind of a no-brainer to be able to make the best sale for the customer and isn't that what business is all about?
I rarely go into a superstore like Best Buy and find truly knowledgeable people when it comes to the latest electronics. The BestBuy in South County, Missouri lost a sale not too long ago from me because they told me I couldn't buy the Verizon Xoom off contract, which is nonsense. So I simply went to another store and bought it. Perfect example of a person not knowing what the heck they're talking about.
I realize that there are a LOT of new products out there, but it's the responsibility of the store's employees (and ultimately the store's management) to LEARN about these devices so that when people ask BASIC questions, they can answer them.
It wasn't too long ago that I attended a sales lecture at college. Younger people (age 35 and under) normally knew what they were going after when they went to buy tech, and often preferred to be left alone to fiddle with the product a bit and basically only needed help during the actual sales process (or the retrieval process if the item was locked in a secure case). People 35 and over almost universally wanted help from start to finish because their understanding of the tech wasn't always so great. To sell to that person over 35, which is going to be a sizable portion of your business, your employees need to know that device and demo what it it can do on a moment's notice.
So, to me, you've got the "location, location, location" problem and also the "knowledge, knowledge, knowledge" problem if you haven't sold any of these things yet.
Here's something you can do, which will really appeal to older folks... set up one xoom on one side of the aisle, set up another one in sight of the first, but farther away, perhaps on the other side of the aisle. When someone comes in and asks what the xoom can do, just turn on video conferencing and SHOW them how cool it is. Have your sales people be able to demo the different features.
You can also show them how much FASTER the xoom is rendering web pages than the iPad. Everyone loves to save time, irrespective of age.
Another thing the xoom does EXTREMELY well is reformatting text. It will automatically reformat the text when you zoom in on a website, to make it readable. In fact, it makes the text beautiful.
You can show them how they can have live widgets on their home-screens, and the iPad can't.
Honestly, if people knew what the xoom could do, who in the hell would buy an iPad anyway???
Motorola made a HUGE mistake with their superbowl commercial too, they didn't show what the xoom could do. Nobody is going to buy a device like this because it looks cool. Sure, that's something they think about, but that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down their list, probably down around "what kind of towel do I need to use to clean the screen" or something. What matters most is functionality and price. If it doesn't do what I need it to do, if it doesn't enrich my life in some way, what good is it??
I guarantee you that if you gave me 10 minutes with 10 people who were going to buy an iPad, and they gave me a fair chance to demo what the xoom could do, at least 7 of those would buy the xoom instead. The number would be even higher if it was just a basic netbook buyer, because a good netbook is even MORE expensive than the xoom.
It baffles me that these things aren't FLYING off the shelves. I think that's mostly due to bad sales tactics and poor marketing. It's unfortunate too because it's such an amazing device.
Oh yeah, FLASH. iPad can't give you the web like a desktop can, but xoom can.
Didn't you say you worked at (Hint - That was easy) - Anyways when I purchased my XOOM from (Staples) it was right in the front near the registers? Had its own display with other accessories, etc. I've been in retail sales before and the only way I would imagine to make more of a push on the product is have both positive and negative reviews about the product compared to other competitors. I believe in 100% honesty and if you are straight forward with a customer and tell them the benefits and disadvantages of the unit compared to what’s on the market currently they will appreciate it. Honesty in my opinion goes a long way then any marketing gimmick a retail chain will try to implement on its staff or customer.
stevenege said:
Honestly, if the person wiped this and the device will not reset it when it is wiped you need to call Moto and let them know or call your Home Office and let them know. PM me what store you work for and I will try and help as best I can.
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Click to collapse
Oh it boots, but its missing the Books app and the music that was preloaded. Hence my problem. I guess doing a factory restore from recovery mode won't get back the music. :/
if you have a Nexus or some other phone that can do mobile hotspot on display or some phone that can do mobile hotspot, that'll be your best chance of getting internet connection. from there you can reinstall anything.
i think most of the displays i've seen failed because of the lack of internet. every ipad i've seen always had internet connection. impressed with some of the free games like Gun bros or dungeon and defenders
vkuber said:
Didn't you say you worked at (Hint - That was easy) - Anyways when I purchased my XOOM from (Staples) it was right in the front near the registers? Had its own display with other accessories, etc. I've been in retail sales before and the only way I would imagine to make more of a push on the product is have both positive and negative reviews about the product compared to other competitors. I believe in 100% honesty and if you are straight forward with a customer and tell them the benefits and disadvantages of the unit compared to what’s on the market currently they will appreciate it. Honesty in my opinion goes a long way then any marketing gimmick a retail chain will try to implement on its staff or customer.
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Click to collapse
Darn! I made it too easy. ^_^
I'm very honest in my sales, I always mention its V1.0 of the software and that the apps aren't there yet. Its very hard to explain its potential without demonstrating it somehow.
And yes we have an endcap right near the registers with lots of accessories. The Xoom deserves a prominent place in our store TBH.
It really irks me, people come in to the store and in that sheepish voice ask "do you have any iPads?". By the time I say "No. But I would love to show you our android ta..." they are halfway out the door.
Still looking for a "kiosk-mode" or "kid-safe" app that locks the device settings in some way. That and apps that really bring out the Xoom's best qualities.
Hey check this out for app locking. http://htcdev.net/topic/1224-kid-mode-for-your-tablet-and-smartphone/
Sent from my HTC Incredible using XDA App
Also, I'm looking for a way to keep the device on and at full brightness 100% of the time (it will be plugged in 24/7). I know under apps/development you can keep it from powering off while charging, but that doesn't keep it bright.
I'll look into zoodle, but perhaps "kid-mode" is too much control. But its a start. Thanks. ^_^
TheGeek007 said:
Also, I'm looking for a way to keep the device on and at full brightness 100% of the time (it will be plugged in 24/7). I know under apps/development you can keep it from powering off while charging, but that doesn't keep it bright.
I'll look into zoodle, but perhaps "kid-mode" is too much control. But its a start. Thanks. ^_^
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Click to collapse
Download Quick Settings (Free) from the market. Once installed, in the menu, choose customize and drag the Screen Timeout to the top area. You can set it to "Never Timeout". This appears to keep the screen from dimming, at least in the 5 minutes I tested it.
Gotta say +1 on the bad placement at best buy. They even had a whole featured section called "tablets" with the streak, galaxy, Ipad, etc. I had to ask someone if they were selling xooms. They were out (this was wifi release day) but they directed me to their demo model all the way on the other side of the store BEHIND all the computers, near the random stereo cables. Went to staples and it was front and center and in stock. Sorry BB, I came to you first and you let me down.
But forget about attracting new people to buy the xoom, put it somewhere that I can find it if I came there SPECIFICALLY for it.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
My suggestion would be putting the wallpaper of android that came preinstalled. Put games like gunbros,dungeon defenders, cordy on the center homescreen. Also gmail widget. And YouTube app is very pretty and lots of people use it and it'll be a very good bet to get people. Also, sideload Amazon appstore as well as the market on there. Picsay also is an awesome little app. Good luck.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Are you allowed to lock apps with a password? If so, there ares dozens of solutions already in the Android market:
https://market.android.com/search?q=app+password&so=1&c=apps
Just apply a password to the apps you want to protect, at least I assume its thats simple... I haven't tried these apps myself, so you'll have to experiment.
TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quick list:
Flash (47% of all web sites have flash according to a research firm as of today)
Higher quality cameras (Many times better then the iPad 2)
Excellent battery life
A solid screen. (It might help if you turn the brightness off auto and place it at 100%)
Put it next to the ipad2's, not by netbooks. (some kind of DroidDoes-eque banner would be great, but I can understand that could be hard to get.)
A SD slot (stress that it WILL happen soon. (like may)
4G upgrade (Stress it's FREE, something the iPad 2 will never have, and that it's a hardware upgrade and will only take a matter of days)
I would load up a couple of graphically advanced games on the main home screen. (like maybe GunBros and SpeedX 3D, both of which are fun, free, good looking games)
Stress how open it is to making it individual (ease at which to customize)
If the person looks tech savy, be sure to say the boot loader is unlockable.
Stress the widescreen (16:9) over the "full screen" (4:3) iPad
Use some of the tablet optimized apps to show the multipane options. (show this next to the iPad as an OS designed for a tablet screen, not a handheld screen.)
And lastly for my list, compare the browser to the ipad browser, with tabs and a fuller experience. it earns high marks.
Hope this helped and wasn't too repeative.
(p.s. on the hole lack of books app, just go through and reinstall the apps and register with the same account as the Xoom is on.)
p.s.s. just customize it, make it look like a person uses it, not like it just came from a factory.
Another thing you can show them...
HDMI Out, with HD support. They could even do video chats on their TV (something the ipad can't do w/o an expensive add-on, and even then it doesn't look very good due to it not being HD and being in 4:3).
The ONE area where the ipad beats the xoom is standby battery. But for all that battery, you give up all the cool widgets and what makes android cool. So to me, it was a no-brainer.
If you have the authority, send a demo xoom home with your sales associates, let 'em keep it for a weekend or something so they KNOW what all they can do with it. Encourage them to play with it and do whatever they want. Once a person gets ahold of this device, they'll realize how amazing it truly is and they'll start to spread that enthusiasm to customers. I loved my android phone at first, but after a week of playing with it, I wouldn't trade it for a dozen iphones.
It's all about getting these things in peoples' hands. If they can SEE what it does, they'll want one, it's just that simple. It beats the ipad in virtually every area. When you couple that with the fact that the xoom is incredibly customizable, themeable, unlockable and the browsing experience is so much better, it's a winner of a tablet.
If they want a tablet to play the guitar, drums or some other synthesizer nonsense, then the ipad is for them. If they want to CONNECT to other people and experience the web as it's meant to be, they need the xoom.
Google maps with 3d buildings look great on zoom.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
Prepare your Xoom with Moboplayer and load it up with some movies in different formats with all different kind of subtitles (.srt, .ass (this is a subtitle format), and be sure to get some .mkv with built-in subtitles). Then choose the correct subtitle for the correct customer.
>It really irks me, people come in to the store and in that sheepish voice ask "do you have any iPads?". By the time I say "No. But I would love to show you our android ta..." they are halfway out the door.
I don't know what you can do for the Xoom, but it'd help your sales pitch by not starting with a "no."
That said, there isn't much you can do or say, other than to wait for Moto to drop its premium pricing--or until it releases the 16GB SKU at a more competitive price.
http://ubergizmo.com/2011/04/16gb-motorola-xoom-on-its-way
Most people don't want a Xoom and you can't make them.
Sent from my Captivate
Backstory: I've always used iPhones, was tired of the bull****, and wished for Android especially the S8. Was shocked, and I'm rarely shocked, but the agressive violation of privacy, the crazy amount of bloatware, and the unoptimised UX and system services overall.
Now, I'm in charge of a wide ecosystem of people using smartphones in our company as well as other companies I consult for. While people always blab about personal privacy (which is a concern of course), what I don't understand is how people dealing with either sensitive, contractual or strategic informations could use Android devices given that it *excuse but there's no better terms* rapes your privacy in every, but also I'm pretty sure, illegal, ways.
For exemple the Sound Detector app, even when disabled, is constantly listening to your environment without your priori knowledge or permissions. In fact it's mainly the permissions scheme that baffles me: on iOS or any PC or Mac, you can install any app without being constrained to accept giving out information or accessing functions that have nothing to do with the app, THEN you can choose what precise permissions, when and why. And of course there's the whole wider problem of usage and data tracking (which I apparently have to install...a firewall??) or even malware (I have to install a separate antivirus for...on a smartphone). Worst exemple being that of course: www.theverge.com/2018/1/2/16842294/android-apps-microphone-access-listening-tv-habits
Now I like Android for all their efforts, development and implementation, as well as Samsung efforts...but I'm on the verge of having to present a report to ban all Android phones (for a "leave at door" Policy or either iPhone, BBMs and any other "more" secure smartphones) like I just realise they did in the US government and other official institutions as well as some corporations...or...understand very well how it works, and devise a clearly guide on how to completely optimise and secure Android smartphones like I would for PCs/Macs.
So here's my mission if you accept to help me:
1. I want to deconstruct how Android works in a very simple scheme for noob.
2. From that I want to list all the system packages and services, to determine those that are critical, optional or bloatware, and actually describe exactly what they're for so people have a clear idea.
3. I want to list all the base applications, stores or packages apps, to determine those that are critical, optional or bloatware, then what they're for and most importantly the best alternative apps to these.
4. I want to list and make a simple schemes of how the device components (sensors, cam, mic...), the different data canals, and the the different permissions are circulating or violating privacy while screwing cpu time, battery and data.
5. Finally I want to learn, understand and create a simple noob introduction to the different tools like Xposed (and XprivacyLua which seems to be the best options), package disablers (I personally went for BK), Firewall, Adblockers and Antivirus (honestly didn't even think I would need those on Android).
So I guess first, I'll list all the apps, packages (and sub-services) that my Galaxy S8 came shipped with that overwhelmed me, so as to know for a basic Galaxy S8/+/Note what is a consensus of what to disable, why, how and by what to replace if there's alternative, while listing basic how-to's of the tools to that. Note that I only know about BK Disabler as of now.
Reserved
Upd: I haven't had time, but I'm starting to do a table with all the packages, what they're for and wether to disable them.
You do know that Silverpush do affect both iPhone and Android, right? And "leave at the door" policy or either iPhone or BBM? There's two errors in this sentence. Are you really what you claim to be? Or just someone with an agenda who just created an XDA account?
why would you need an antivirus for a phone if you stick to play store apps?
rashat999 said:
why would you need an antivirus for a phone if you stick to play store apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are plenty of play store garbage apps with spy ware and crap in them
vladimir_carlan said:
You do know that Silverpush do affect both iPhone and Android, right? And "leave at the door" policy or either iPhone or BBM? There's two errors in this sentence. Are you really what you claim to be? Or just someone with an agenda who just created an XDA account?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone (pretends to) be safe and secure and doesn't straight-up violate your privacy by forcing unneeded permission even before installing the app and running tons of spyware as per unbox while giving all your infos out to apps that demand it and more. It's also a question of procedure: iPhone are really easy to fix/secure with a jailbreak, I didn't even root this Android I got and realised how terribly aggressive their violation of privacy is.
But again, I just want to give people the choice as long as their device is secure, that's why I'm learning all the quirks of Android and how to secure them. All our IT guys confirmed that unless you know exactly how to secure Android devices like we did for our computer park, employees better go for an iPhone.
There's a difference between Apple that might have backdoors to the NSA, and Android that is a crazy open buffet for -permitted- informations stealing without even talking about spyware or silverpush. My Galaxy S8 came with apps and packages that were constantly listening through the mic without my prior knowledge, installation or authorisation, this is intolerable. But I switched for a reason, I'll see if using Android is easily manageable or if it's better to ban them from inside use.
OgreTactic said:
iPhone (pretends to) be safe and secure and doesn't straight-up violate your privacy by forcing unneeded permission even before installing the app and running tons of spyware as per unbox while giving all your infos out to apps that demand it and more. It's also a question of procedure: iPhone are really easy to fix/secure with a jailbreak, I didn't even root this Android I got and realised how terribly aggressive their violation of privacy is.
But again, I just want to give people the choice as long as their device is secure, that's why I'm learning all the quirks of Android and how to secure them. All our IT guys confirmed that unless you know exactly how to secure Android devices like we did for our computer park, employees better go for an iPhone.
There's a difference between Apple that might have backdoors to the NSA, and Android that is a crazy open buffet for -permitted- informations stealing without even talking about spyware or silverpush. My Galaxy S8 came with apps and packages that were constantly listening through the mic without my prior knowledge, installation or authorisation, this is intolerable. But I switched for a reason, I'll see if using Android is easily manageable or if it's better to ban them from inside use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate my question still stand: are you really what are you claiming to be or you just have an agenda? Some badass company appointed you to decide what is secure and what not. Really? You? In Op you are talking about thinking to allow only iOS and BBM (it's Bbos BTW) only. BBOSS? Really? BBOS was discontinued one year ago...no more updates no more security patches, no more nothing.
vladimir_carlan said:
Mate my question still stand: are you really what are you claiming to be or you just have an agenda? Some badass company appointed you to decide what is secure and what not. Really? You? In Op you are talking about thinking to allow only iOS and BBM (it's Bbos BTW) only. BBOSS? Really? BBOS was discontinued one year ago...no more updates no more security patches, no more nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not my job, but that's part of mine to decide or push in front of committees what tool we should use, purely from a utilitarian, managerial and system POV. None of us beside IT guys ever realised how Android were intolerably insecure, I've had my head in Apple buttock for years thinking "yeah, that's too limited and I heard Android is now as stable and well made".
But I don't want to go back to iPhone either, so here I am sitting with a Galaxy S8 I'm still not using because I don't where to start to secure it, whether I should try to fix everything on the factory rom or just root it.
OgreTactic said:
That's not my job, but that's part of mine to decide or push in front of committees what tool we should use, purely from a utilitarian, managerial and system POV. None of us beside IT guys ever realised how Android were intolerably insecure, I've had my head in Apple buttock for years thinking "yeah, that's too limited and I heard Android is now as stable and well made".
But I don't want to go back to iPhone either, so here I am sitting with a Galaxy S8 I'm still not using because I don't where to start to secure it, whether I should try to fix everything on the factory rom or just root it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay...what exactly makes you to feel insecure? I understand you're bothered that some apps are accessing your microphone. That's easy... Settings-Apps. Tap on those three dots and chose app permission. You'll see what apps have access to microphone and deny permission for them. Job done. What else makes you to feel insecure?
vladimir_carlan said:
Okay...what exactly makes you to feel insecure? I understand you're bothered that some apps are accessing your microphone. That's easy... Settings-Apps. Tap on those three dots and chose app permission. You'll see what apps have access to microphone and deny permission for them. Job done. What else makes you to feel insecure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I put my S8 away for now I went back to an iPhone. I'm using it off-grid to still try and figure out how it works.
Basically my problems are clear:
1. There's no transparency in background processes/services, the component they use and the data they send.
2. The way permissions are managed is intolerable: forcing you to accept non-necessary and arbitrary access to connected components or private information BEFORE installing the app is a form of extortion. The same goes when running the app: forcing permissions that are not critical to the app code actually running is a form of extortion. Baffles me how Google even allows that today.
3. The fact that there's even a need for a firewall and antivirus, and that the official stores is filled with illegal (copyright infringing app so blatant) and therefor myriads of potential malicious apps like Silverpush-enabled one, without any store control or curation on Google's part.
All this means there is no way I will use an Android rather than an iPhone and allow anyone dealing with private or "sensitive" commercial informations using one inside the company. I'm still trying to figure out if going straight to root is the solution, if I'll have to use cryptography for documents and coms, or if I'll have to spend days figuring out Xposed+Xprivacy, Packages Disablers, MicroG alternative libraries, Firewall and Antivirus and god knows what to make it decently secure like an iPhone (which doesn't aggressively violates your privacy and is really easy to secure with a jailbreak...unless there are hidden backdoors which is still far from the probably illegal open-buffet of private and sensitive informations Google provides to any potential malicious websites, scripts or apps).
New to 6T. Is it confirmed that there's no way to "Ok, Google" with no history?
I don't care about Assistant functionality but being able to say "Ok, Google" and have answers is nice. As I understand, unfortunately, that is now "force linked" to activating browsing and voice history. Am I correct?
If that was the case, it's another nail in my personal coffin for Google. It's perfectly capable to recognize my voice flawlessly while using Google keyboard, as it's perfectly capable to do it when I activate manually the Google app (long press on home button). Feeling forced to have Google snooping on my web and voice history just to be able to activate it with "Ok, Google" irks me to no end.
Please, tell me I've got it wrong.
I'm not sure why you have an Android phone if you don't want Google knowing anything about you.
The assistant does store your queries, it does so to help it learn context about how you use it. It also allows you phone and Google Home devices to work together and work smarter for you. Yes, it's an invasion of privacy, but that is the trade off for using the Google Ecosystem.
yep, Android phone, gmail account, play store account, google has assigned a Russian operative to monitor every porn site you go to..
relax, just keep your tin foil helmet firmly in place and you'll be just fine..
There are several options to have privacy on smartphones. Both big os (Apple and Google) and even windows on computers are collecting many things about you. The only way to get rid of it is either no to use a smartphone, or on Google phones to run a modified Android ROM running without any Google framework and able to run microG project.
But there is none yet on our phone
All projects based on other types of Linux distro are dead or non usable except for a few phones.
So... Use your phone and don't bother, Android is free so you're the product, Apple too, windows too, Facebook too, Instagram too....
... sorry to see "tinfoil hat" accusations. I asked a simple question. Up to a certain point the "Ok Google" activation command did not require web history and voice history activation. Is it now mandatory or am I missing something?
If I wanted to discuss privacy implications I would have opened a discussion somewhere else. As I said, there is no technical reason for the change, if the change indeed happened. So the question is: did it happen? Yes or no? If I have Assistant deactivated (as I do), do I still need to activate those two options just to be able to activate the Google app with my voice?
Because you either think Google is lying about it (in which case I would not speak about tinfoil hats if I were you) or you accept that with web history and voice history deactivated Google knows far less about you. I do not want Assistant but I liked to be able to ask simple questions without typing. And I still can do that, by simply long pressing the home button. It's just the "Ok, Google" voice command that is deactivated. Something that would have been easily recognizable fifteen years ago by Dragon Dictate, with pretty much no error possible. If I manually activate the Google app, my speech is flawlessly recognized every single time, same for Google Maps when I dictate an address. But I need to touch the screen, whereas before I could say "Ok Google" and start speaking.
Striatum_bdr said:
Android is free so you're the product, Apple too, windows too, Facebook too, Instagram too....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perfectly said...
Striatum_bdr said:
Android is free so you're the product, Apple too, windows too, Facebook too, Instagram too....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A phone that costs 700 USD should not include an OS that follows every move of its user. It's already bad enough that Microsoft is going the same way with Windows. That being said, there simply is no alternative so I don't really agree with the fact that we have to take whatever they throw at us.
Still looking for a solution to block web & app access as well. "Google Now" worked without any of those. What's more, Google now even makes it impossible to enter an address in Android Auto while driving because I cannot use voice without giving these permissions and they simply block typing while driving.
Instead of improving car safety, they are making it worse because I'm back to typing on my tiny phone screen instead of using voice to navigate. Well done Google.
ljo13 said:
A phone that costs 700 USD should not include an OS that follows every move of its user. It's already bad enough that Microsoft is going the same way with Windows. That being said, there simply is no alternative so I don't really agree with the fact that we have to take whatever they throw at us.
Still looking for a solution to block web & app access as well. "Google Now" worked without any of those. What's more, Google now even makes it impossible to enter an address in Android Auto while driving because I cannot use voice without giving these permissions and they simply block typing while driving.
Instead of improving car safety, they are making it worse because I'm back to typing on my tiny phone screen instead of using voice to navigate. Well done Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly are you doing that you don't want Google knowing anything about you? I think we all wish these companies were less intrusive, and a lot of us know the reasoning they give for some of the breaches of privacy are ridiculous, but you don't HAVE to use a smartphone, and this is part of the price for doing so at this point.
Get a flip phone and a standalone GPS and call it there.
xgerryx said:
What exactly are you doing that you don't want Google knowing anything about you? I think we all wish these companies were less intrusive, and a lot of us know the reasoning they give for some of the breaches of privacy are ridiculous, but you don't HAVE to use a smartphone, and this is part of the price for doing so at this point.
Get a flip phone and a standalone GPS and call it there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not OP, but this argument is so bad that I can't help but respond. Living life is what I'm doing that I don't want Google knowing about me. People don't need extraneous reasons to justify wanting privacy, the fact that they want privacy is reason enough.
These companies are not losing money on these phones, we are paying more than the cost to build these devices. They do not need to suck up all of our data to make money from these phones. Yet they still do so, and for whatever reason have people like you arguing against their own self interest. Its truly genius how these companies have worked this out for themselves.
Of course you don't HAVE to have a smartphone, but your life will be seriously inconvenienced without it. A flip phone is not a viable alternative to a smart phone, and I know you know that.
everything in life comes with trade offs; if you dont want a flip phone, and want all the other stuff that smart phones provide, then, unfortunately, there is a price to pay, even more than the cost of these phones..And, your remark about paying more than the phone costs to make is strange; do you expect companies with shareholders to NOT make as much of a profit as they can?
society, for the most part has decided to deal with the privacy intrusion that so many of these devices inflict on us, so, as someone else said, if you cant accept that or deal with it, the Moto Razr is going to be released again soon, so you may want to go that route..
adobrakic said:
Not OP, but this argument is so bad that I can't help but respond. Living life is what I'm doing that I don't want Google knowing about me. People don't need extraneous reasons to justify wanting privacy, the fact that they want privacy is reason enough.
These companies are not losing money on these phones, we are paying more than the cost to build these devices. They do not need to suck up all of our data to make money from these phones. Yet they still do so, and for whatever reason have people like you arguing against their own self interest. Its truly genius how these companies have worked this out for themselves.
Of course you don't HAVE to have a smartphone, but your life will be seriously inconvenienced without it. A flip phone is not a viable alternative to a smart phone, and I know you know that.
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My point was that it's a battle you aren't going to win. So deal, or don't use it, thats about it.
Use MicroG, use search sites that don't keep data, don't use Gmail, Facebook, Insta, Snap, but use Protonmail, Telegram, sms and... no social media.
And you'll be ok. But you'll have to convince friends / buddies / family to use the same tools to communicate with you.
Your data are interesting, not you. No human will track and look into a specific individual. All those data are only interesting for the computers (or more precisely IA) that can help you, assist you, sell you things etc. You can refuse that, but you can't stop it. Far too late. And you'll be anyway in a data set anyway, by other means.
So at an individual level you can try to be as little exposed as possible, but it will require time, limitation of possibilities, and perhaps an adaptation of social life
xgerryx said:
What exactly are you doing that you don't want Google knowing anything about you? I think we all wish these companies were less intrusive, and a lot of us know the reasoning they give for some of the breaches of privacy are ridiculous, but you don't HAVE to use a smartphone, and this is part of the price for doing so at this point.
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It's not that I'm doing anything wrong. I'm probably one of the most boring people in the world to follow and I absolutely believe that there's nothing wrong with giving up SOME privacy but Google is taking it way too far. There simply is no alternative. There are literally zero smartphones I can buy that offer decent privacy coupled with decent functionality.
I really hate to explain this to people but privacy really IS something valuable. Or do we all want to end up with a social score like in China? Where ignoring a red light at a crosswalk lowers your score and thus your chances to get a bank loan, decent job, etc. ? It's not about what these organizations or by extension governments are doing with all that data today. It's about what they are going to do with it tomorrow.